A few druid questions

[Coyopa]

So, the other thread "So...Druids" got me thinking about mine and I really would like to make her work as a melee wolf who also acts as sort of a tertiary healer (basically, throw mass regen while in combat). I like the sneak attack damage she can do in wolf form and she is a half-elf with rogue dilettante. Here's what I've been thinking and then you all can tell me what you think (and what you think of what I think):



Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Chaotic Neutral Half-Elf Male
(20 Druid)
Hit Points: 322
Spell Points: 1627
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 9
Will: 20

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 8 10
Dexterity 14 16
Constitution 16 18
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 18 27
Charisma 8 8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 20
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 20

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 2 3
Bluff -1 -1
Concentration 7 27
Diplomacy -1 -1
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle -1 -1
Heal 4 8
Hide 2 3
Intimidate -1 -1
Jump 1 11
Listen 4 8
Move Silently 2 3
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 -1
Search -1 -1
Spot 8 31
Swim -1 1
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Augment Summoning
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Rogue


Level 2 (Druid)
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Wolf


Level 3 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery


Level 4 (Druid)


Level 5 (Druid)
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Bear


Level 6 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 7 (Druid)


Level 8 (Druid)
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Winter Wolf


Level 9 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse


Level 10 (Druid)


Level 11 (Druid)
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Dire Bear


Level 12 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Natural Fighting


Level 13 (Druid)
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Fire Elemental


Level 14 (Druid)


Level 15 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Natural Fighting


Level 16 (Druid)


Level 17 (Druid)
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Water Elemental


Level 18 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Natural Fighting


Level 19 (Druid)


Level 20 (Druid)
Enhancement: Druid Natural Adept
Enhancement: Druid Aggravate I
Enhancement: Druid Aggravate II
Enhancement: Druid Beastial Nature I
Enhancement: Druid Beastial Nature II
Enhancement: Druid Blood Moon Frenzy I
Enhancement: Druid Blood Moon Frenzy II
Enhancement: Druid Nature's Warrior I
Enhancement: Druid Nature's Warrior II
Enhancement: Druid Reaving Roar
Enhancement: Druid Vengeful Hunter I
Enhancement: Druid Vengeful Hunter II
Enhancement: Improved Rogue Dilettante I
Enhancement: Improved Rogue Dilettante II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Druid Waxing Hoarfrost I
Enhancement: Druid Waxing Hoarfrost II
Enhancement: Druid Waxing Life I
Enhancement: Druid Waxing Life II
Enhancement: Druid Waxing Life III
Enhancement: Druid Energy of the Locus I
Enhancement: Druid Energy of the Locus II
Enhancement: Druid Energy of the Locus III
Enhancement: Druid Energy of the Locus IV
Enhancement: Druid Eminence of Hoarfrost I
Enhancement: Druid Eminence of Hoarfrost II
Enhancement: Druid Eminence of Hoarfrost III
Enhancement: Druid Eminence of Hoarfrost IV
Enhancement: Druid Eminence of Life I
Enhancement: Druid Eminence of Life II
Enhancement: Druid Eminence of Life III
Enhancement: Druid Eminence of Life IV
Enhancement: Druid Wisdom I
Enhancement: Druid Wisdom II
Enhancement: Druid Toughness I
Enhancement: Druid Toughness II




At L21, take Improved Critical: Bludgeoning (or Slashing, as I believe dire bear and winter wolf forms' attacks count as both). If both only count as bludgeoning and something else (slashing for bear, piercing for wolf), then I'd stick with IC: Bludgeoning for the most mileage. At L24, take Improved Shield Mastery for both the improved doublestrike chance and for the improved AC and PRR.

As for weapons, I've got a wooden tower shield that I'd plan on crafting something onto (maybe Vertigo +10 and something else), which doesn't seem to impede my ability to attack while in form (this may be WAI or not, dunno). Also, I like the Sacrificial Dagger for the Life Stealing, but I also like the Blade of the High Priestess for the Improved Paralyzing and the chance to Slay Living. However, I also like Icerazor for the boost to cold spells and the freezing ice (and I just acquired one yesteray).

I think that the shield is going to be pretty critical to my plan and I was planning on getting Legendary Shield Mastery and Brace for Impact from Unyielding Sentinel. Probably make Shadowdancer my primary destiny. Also get either Piercing Clarity from GM of Flowers for the additional fortification bypass or Legendary Tactics from Legendary Dreadnought (only if Legendary Tactics would actually add to my trip spell's DC, which I suspect it will not).

Other gear I am pretty flexible on and haven't really planned out much. Seal of House Avithoul and Seal of House Dun'Robar are good ring candidates, as is Ring of the Stalker (which I realize would be some duplication of enchantments if I've got Seal of House Avithoul, but the Manslayer effect is pretty nice [and I know can be had on other items]). So, any suggestions for gear are welcome, too.

P.S: She is currently L16 and I can throw a +2 Int tome on her and LR her, which I'm considering since the additional jump would be nice. Also, I think her alignment may be poorly chosen, but I can't do anything about that right now. Finally, I added the other +2 tomes at level 20 in the plan because it makes no difference whether she gets them at L7 or L20 or anywhere in between. So, don't read anything into the fact that they only finally show up at L20 in this character map.

Edit: Forgot my questions!

1. While in form, does a druid's attacks count as unarmed (while actually holding a weapon)?
2. Has anyone noticed a tower shield impairing their attacks while in form?

[arkonas]

not sure why the low strength. also i would use a str tome as soon as you can. if you get hit with ray of enfeeble your done. So i would change it a little and get more str. also you wont be able to carry much without being burdened all the time.

[Coyopa]

Well, the stats don't reflect any bonuses from items. So, it shows 10, but in the end it would be at least 16. I think I originally designed it as a TWF, but I've changed it to S&B. So, probably would dump dexterity in favour of strength on a lesser reincarnation.

[riexau]

Other than for flavour, I can't think of any good reason to go chaotic on a character.

Pros:
- True/Absolute chaos (situational, anarchaic will usually suffice)

Cons:
- Order's wrath
- Axiomatic
- Word of balance

[Coyopa]

Yea, I agree I screwed up the alignment. I should have gone Neutral Good, instead. It's something I'll fix when I have the TP for it (or on a TR, but I'm not TR'ing any of my characters right now). I had wanted to avoid some min/maxing with this character and wanted something other than Neutral Good, but I rue that decision because some of the time it's nice to be able to wield pure good weapons.

[Coyopa]

Here's what I'm thinking for end-game items:

Goggles: Lenses of the Woodsman (True Seeing, Attack Bonus +3, Seeker +6)

Helm: Green Steel Helm (+45 hp, +6 exceptional bonus to Constitution skills, +5 Protection, Heavy Fortification)

Necklace: Green Steel Necklace (Wizardry 6, +150 Spell Points, Slay Living Guard, +6 Exceptional Bonus to Intelligence Skills)

Trinket: Pale Lavender Ioun Stone (Spell Absorption, 50 charges, Recharged/Day: 15)

Cloak: Epic Cloak of Night (Invisibility Guard, Ghostly, Deathblock, Nightmare Guard, Dodge Bonus 2%, DR 5/Good)

Belt: Epic Spare Hand (Riposte, Exceptional Combat Mastery +5, Staggering Blow, Disable Device +15, Open Lock +15, Use Magical Device +3, Doublestrike 3%, Colorless Augment Slot [], Blue Augment Slot [Toughness])

Ring: Seal of House Dun'Robar (Constitution +7, Dodge Bonus 4%, Vertigo +10)

Gloves: Epic Brawling Gloves (Strength +7, Spike Studded, Glass Jaw Strike, Sneak Attack Bonus +4, Yellow Augment Slot [Fear Immunity])

Boots: Epic Rock Boots (Superior Corrosion(90) IX,Epic Corrosion(90) VI, Superior Acid Lore, Stone Prison Guard, Earthgrab Guard, Slippery Surface Immunity, Inherent (10) Acid Resistance, Colorless Augment Slot [+6 Intelligence], Yellow Augment Slot [Feather Falling])

Ring: Seal of House Avithoul (+7 Wisdom, +5 Sneak Attack, +3 Exceptional Sneak Attack, Improved Deception)

Bracers: Epic Bracers of Wind (Magnetism +90, Superior Lightning Lore, Blurry, Dodge Bonus 3%, Air Guard, Inherent (10) Lightning Resistance, Colorless Augment Slot [+6 Charisma], Yellow Augment Slot [Blindness Immunity])

Armor: Epic Frozen Tunic (Armor Bonus +8,Superior Glaciation IX,Epic Glaciation VI, Superior Ice Lore, Freezing Ice, Fire Shield (Cold), Enhanced Ki +1, Colorless Augment Slot [+6 Dexterity], Blue Augment Slot [+4 Natural Armor Bonus])

Quiver: Quiver of Alacrity, upgraded (30% Striding, 10% Ranged Alacrity)

This would bring her to 34 Wisdom, which is a bit low, unless I go with Fury of the Wild (but I really think Shadowdancer would fit a bit better). If I dump dexterity in favour of strength, then she comes up to 23 strength, which can be boosted to 24 with the colourless slot on the Epic Spare Hand - though I can bring dexterity to 24 in the same way if I keep dexterity over strength, get the 7dex version of Seal of House Avithoul, and slot +6 wisdom instead of +6 dexterity. Of course, this would lower her wisdom by 1, which isn't necessarily optimal.

Anyway, as you can see, I'm willing to invest serious time grinding gear because much of this is not easy to get. Any opinions on the gear and the build are both desired and welcomed.

[Bluenoser]

Just to clarify, IC: slashing would seem to be best choice, as it should help bear forms (slashing and bludgeoning), wolf forms (slashing and piercing), and the best weapon druids get if fighting in non-animal or elemental forms, scimitars (or khopeshes if you can afford the feat!). Bludgeoning would be good if splashing monk, fighting in bear form a lot, using a q-staff, or shield bashing. My druid is still a lowbie, so if someone higher level is seeing in practice that IC: slashing doesn't work for wolf or bear forms, please chime in.

[Juduss]

Just an FYI: Druids can't user tower shields at all, not even wooden ones. Hope I caught ya before you did any crafting...

[HalfOrcBeautyQueen]

Just to clarify, IC: slashing would seem to be best choice, as it should help bear forms (slashing and bludgeoning), wolf forms (slashing and piercing),....

That is incorrect.

IC: Bludgeoning applies to Bear & Wolf forms because it works on Natural Weapons (animal form).

[Khatzhas]

For damage in forms, Imp Crit: Bludgeoning is the one that affects them, regardless of the actual damage type of the attack.
While in form, unless you have weapon finesse, Strength is what determines your attack and damage bonuses.

The rock boots have decent abilities but bear in mind that you won't get any use from the corrosion or acid lore abilities on them: Your bracers will buff Storm of Vengeance as well as several other spells.

[Vormaerin]

If you are going melee, you want a high strength even as a druid. Its not like you are going to be using flameblades your whole existance. Further, its far easier to boost strength into the stratosphere than any other stat.

Is there any particular reason for the 14 Dex? I guess you need 13 for the Rogue Dilly.

I'd consider dropping Wisdom to 16 and boosting Str if you are looking to be a melee machine. Most of your casting will be going into buffs or attacks, so the +1 DC isn't going to make or break. 8 more stat points in Strength will make a far bigger difference.

[Expalphalog]

Others have mentioned this, but just to reiterate: IC: Bludgeoning is the only IC that matters in wolf form.

If you're really sold on using a Tower Shield, take a splash of Fighter. That'll give you the proficiency and an extra feat (I recommend Improved Shield Mastery to maximize doublestrike).

I'd look at Alchemical Tower Shields. You can make them in Crystal which will give you better effects than a Cannith Crafted Wooden one will.

Finally, I'd recommend dropping Dex to 13 and Wis to 16 or 17 (I know people hate odd numbers, but +3 tomes are cheap now so you can get it back to an even number by level 11) and boosting Strength. With that, drop Weapon Finesse like a bad habit.

[Coyopa]

Thank you all for the input! I've revised my build a bit based on this. I had to keep the dexterity >= 13 to keep Rogue Dilettante. I had read elsewhere on the forums that it was possible to switch your dilettante feat later on and get one that was not available at creation. So, I tried this with my free LR, but one cannot do this any longer. So, it must not have been WAI when it was possible to do this. Here is my updated build:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Chaotic Neutral Half-Elf Female
(20 Druid)
Hit Points: 322
Spell Points: 1597
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 9
Will: 20

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 14 17
Dexterity 14 16
Constitution 16 18
Intelligence 8 10
Wisdom 16 26
Charisma 8 10

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 2 3
Bluff -1 0
Concentration 7 27
Diplomacy -1 14
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle -1 0
Heal 3 8
Hide 2 3
Intimidate -1 0
Jump 4 14
Listen 3 8
Move Silently 2 3
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 0
Search -1 0
Spot 7 31
Swim 2 3
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Augment Summoning
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Rogue


Level 2 (Druid)
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Wolf


Level 3 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery


Level 4 (Druid)


Level 5 (Druid)
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Bear


Level 6 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 7 (Druid)


Level 8 (Druid)
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Winter Wolf


Level 9 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Natural Fighting


Level 10 (Druid)


Level 11 (Druid)
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Dire Bear


Level 12 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Druid)
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Fire Elemental


Level 14 (Druid)


Level 15 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Natural Fighting


Level 16 (Druid)


Level 17 (Druid)
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Water Elemental


Level 18 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Natural Fighting


Level 19 (Druid)


Level 20 (Druid)
Enhancement: Druid Natural Adept
Enhancement: Druid Aggravate I
Enhancement: Druid Aggravate II
Enhancement: Druid Beastial Nature I
Enhancement: Druid Beastial Nature II
Enhancement: Druid Blood Moon Frenzy I
Enhancement: Druid Blood Moon Frenzy II
Enhancement: Druid Nature's Warrior I
Enhancement: Druid Nature's Warrior II
Enhancement: Druid Reaving Roar
Enhancement: Druid Vengeful Hunter I
Enhancement: Druid Vengeful Hunter II
Enhancement: Improved Rogue Dilettante I
Enhancement: Improved Rogue Dilettante II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Wisdom I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Druid Waxing Hoarfrost I
Enhancement: Druid Waxing Hoarfrost II
Enhancement: Druid Waxing Storm I
Enhancement: Druid Waxing Sun I
Enhancement: Druid Waxing Life I
Enhancement: Druid Waxing Life II
Enhancement: Druid Energy of the Locus I
Enhancement: Druid Energy of the Locus II
Enhancement: Druid Energy of the Locus III
Enhancement: Druid Eminence of Hoarfrost I
Enhancement: Druid Eminence of Hoarfrost II
Enhancement: Druid Eminence of Hoarfrost III
Enhancement: Druid Eminence of the Storm I
Enhancement: Druid Eminence of the Storm II
Enhancement: Druid Eminence of the Storm III
Enhancement: Druid Eminence of the Sun I
Enhancement: Druid Eminence of the Sun II
Enhancement: Druid Eminence of Life I
Enhancement: Druid Eminence of Life II
Enhancement: Druid Eminence of Life III
Enhancement: Druid Strength I
Enhancement: Druid Wisdom I
Enhancement: Druid Wisdom II
Enhancement: Druid Toughness I
Enhancement: Druid Toughness II




Now, I chose IC: Slashing because (per DDOwiki and my character sheet) when in Dire Bear form your attacks count as bludgeon/slash and while in Winter Wolf your attacks count as pierce/slash. Also, I'm expecting to be using either scimitars or sickles while not in form, especially because I have L16 and L20 (tier 1, each) Brigand's Cutlass from Crystal Cove. Thus, IC: Slashing covers my attacks regardless of form.

I dropped wisdom back to 16, put those 6 points into strength, and kept dexterity at 14 simply because it doesn't make sense to me to put dexterity at 13 & then drop 1 point into intelligence or charisma. I could put one point into intelligence, which would get her some 4 extra skill points, but I figure Diplomacy will be too low to be much use whether I've got 4 additional points in it or not.

I don't want to splash a level of fighter because I want the druid capstone. So, while that is a good idea in order to get tower shield proficiency, it's not something I consider a worthwhile trade at this time. I guess I'll find out for sure when I get her to L20 and I can always LR her again at that time. I do see that the tower shield imposes a -10 attack for non-proficiency. So, I'll have to make my mind up about what I want to do about that sooner rather than later (change to a shield in which I am proficient, take a level of fighter, or take the tower shield proficiency).

I do recognise I won't get the full benefit of the rock boots since druids have only one acid spell (maybe two, but I think it's just one). However, the slots, slippery surface immunity, stone prison guard, earthgrab guard, and inherent acid resistance are enough to sell me on that item. As for the frozen tunic, I like the freezing ice, the slots, and the boost to cold spells, while I recognise the boost to cold spells is not as large as I could find on another item.

Finally, for my L21 and L24 feats, one would be Improved Shield Bashing while the other would be either: Tower Shield Proficiency, Maximize, Empower, or....don't know.

[Expalphalog]

Now, I chose IC: Slashing because (per DDOwiki and my character sheet) when in Dire Bear form your attacks count as bludgeon/slash and while in Winter Wolf your attacks count as pierce/slash. Also, I'm expecting to be using either scimitars or sickles while not in form, especially because I have L16 and L20 (tier 1, each) Brigand's Cutlass from Crystal Cove. Thus, IC: Slashing covers my attacks regardless of form.

Negative.

To be as clear as possible: IC: Slashing does not work in Animal Form. Only IC: Bludgeoning works in Animal Form.

If you actually check out the feats you will see that IC: Slashing is not really a feat. It is a collection of feats, such as IC: Greatsword, IC: Kama, IC: Sickle, etc. Similarly, IC: Bludgeoning is also not really a feat, but a collection of feats that includes IC: Unarmed.

Your Animal Form attacks count as Unarmed and only count as Unarmed. Whether it does Slashing, Piercing, or Bludgeoning damage is irrelevant - the only thing that matters is what kind of weapon it is and animal attacks are always Unarmed no matter what you're actually wielding. This is WAI and is confirmed by a dev.

[Coyopa]

Thank you for pointing that out. I hadn't caught that (and I should have - so reading fail on my part).

Also, I have determined there isn't room in the build for tower shield use/proficiency as I want to also take Precision. Thus, I have already dropped my tower shield from my character and scrapped plans to use a tower shield altogether. So, I'll plan on one of my L21 and L24 feats to be Precision for the time being.

[Expalphalog]

Probably a good idea. Druid is pretty feat starved as it is, so it's hard to fit in superfluous stuff without splashing.

[wolfy42]

As others have mentioned.....you won't get anything from IC slashing unless using a slashing weapon in human or elemental form. Both animal forms only gain fro IC bludgeoning.

Your new stats with the higher strength look good. If your planning on meleeing at all, str is very important for a druid. Weapon finesse is a total waste for a druid.

As far as going rogue dilli....it's an option....but it'll be mainly effective in wolf form. You need to determine if your going to stick to wolf form long term, or use an elemental form. If you are going to use an elemental form, you might consider going fighter dilli to get a much wider weapon selection, and possibly switching out your natural fighting feats with TWF or THF feats instead.

While in wolf form any weapon you have equiped will count as unarmed. It doesn't matter if it's one handed, two handed etc.

Honestly i'd either specialize all out on wolf form (so make str your priority over wisdom), or skip the natural fighting/shield mastery feats and focus on spellcasting and THF/TWF instead. Wolf form needs to be optimized to really shine later (Which would include taking rogue dilli probably). It requires alot of feat investment (natural fighting, shield masteries), and specific stats (higher the str the better in most cases...wisdom/con being secondaries. Dex usually not so important unless you want rogue dilli).

Wolf form gets a natural faster attack speed (30% faster then norm) which is multiplied by haste etc. If you have all the natural fighting feats + shield masteries....you'll be hitting just about as much as a TWF char when hasted at least.

While nice...you can achieve a similar outcome by just going with TWF or even THF (THF is nice since you can use shilliliagh to make staves better blunt weapons then normal...and with fighter dilli use greataxes/swords as well).

The elemental forms are quite nice later on.....but they use real weapons...so if you want to go all out melee with them, multiclassing or taking fighter dilli is a good idea.

Elemental forms get 100% fort and immunity to paralysis and stun (wolf forms do not).

Elemental forms get no reduction in casting speed or penalty to int/cha.

Early on (pre level 13 at least since you don't have a choice) wolf form rocks, especially if you snag reaving roar at lvl 7. Reaving roar obliterates groups of enemies quite nicely through the mid levels...and snow wolf forms natural damage is quite decent from level 8-13. If your not planning on speccing for wolf form, grab a souleater staff and your set for those levels in your sleep.

Once you get your elemental forms though...you can build a character to do similar DPS with melee, have much faster casting speed and all the bonuses of the elemental form as well. You basically free up a ton of feats by not needing all the natural fighting/shield masteries.

Body of the sun is great for melee types as is elemental toughness (5/- dr all the time), and earthquake is quite nice as well.

Basically I suggest planning for either wolf form, or elemental form if you want to melee with your druid. In both cases strength is very important. Wisdom isn't nearly as important for elemental form since your DCs are never going to be that high anyway (unless you have TR'd a bunch). Many wolf abilities use wisdom for their DC though....but even so strength can often compensate for that (takedown for instance is wis based, but trip (which doesn't use a spell slot or spell points) is wisdom based. Since str has sooooo many boosts...it's going to be significantly higher then wisdom (probably even if you boost wisdom with levels) and trips DC will be higher then takedown. Since they both share a timer...it's one or the other. I pretty much always liked trip over takedown on my druids.

For a first druid....I really wouldn't suggest specializing in wolf form to be honest. The elemental forms are great (especially if you don't have a ton of good eq yet), and offer more versatility in spells, healing and damage. You get natural DR, 100% fort, poison resist, elemental resists, boosted spell damage and some really nice spells for melee combat as well.

Early on reaving roar is awesome in animal form...but you'll rip through early content in your sleep without specializing in an animal form with feats. Many of the feats you would take for a melee elemental form will also help your druid form early on as well.

Hope this helps alot. I've played quite a few druids....and while wolf form is decent late game.....you really need to go all out and specialize in it to make it so. Elemental form gives you far more options. Going with a high wisdom for elemental forms, and just sticking to a 14 strength is still a fairly decent option (using divine power + ram's might etc to get your to hit/damage up decently). Having very high DC earthquakes etc is quite nice as well....and alot of your elemental damage comes from spells.

If your meleeing though....I would not go under 14 base strength. With druid strength enhancements, tomes, rams might, strength bonus from item etc...you'll have a high enough strength even with a 14 base to do decent melee damage late game in elemental form. That leaves you open to maximize wisdom both initially....and with level ups (and race enhancement).

I also want to mention that there are quite a few no-save spells for a druid. Even at lvl 1 you get produce flame....which ends up doing almost as much damage as scorching ray for a sorc if you spec in fire damage and have combustion etc equiped for it. It's quite nice to use on bosses etc at range, or especially on undead/trolls etc that are vulnerable to fire damage. It also costs less then scorching ray:) It does take longer to get that damage though (max is 16d2+32 in fire elemental form at level 15). Still don't forget about that spell...it's quite nice even late game (and not wis based at all).

[Juduss]

I've seen many references to incorporating a tower shield into Druid builds. Is it just a matter of proficiency? I was under the impression that it was an oath related matter, even if it's not strictly stated in the oath (an undocumented restriction). Just looking for clarification, please & thank you.

[Coyopa]

@Wolfy42

Thanks, I'll keep all that in mind. I'm pretty much planning on specializing into wolf form. I've got a L21 wizard and I just don't find him fun in the new content. I've also got a L20 cleric and I've never found her particularly enjoyable (leveled her to help my guild out and be the healer when needed). I'm not keen on playing a spellcaster again, really - it has felt like the druid is just another wizard or cleric to me when I played her as a spellcaster. Of course, the same could be said for the way I'm thinking about re-building her now, since I have a L25 monk, L25 rogue, L23 ranger, and L20 barbarian. I'm hoping she'll be fun once this is done, though. Plus, my wife is keen to start playing and she desperately wants to play a druid. So, it behooves me to figure this class out.

@Juduss

Most tower shields are some type of metal. However, if you can find a wooden tower shield (as I did) or make an alchemical one, then there is no reason you couldn't use it. I decided against it because it imposes a -10 attack penalty (for a plain old wooden tower shield when you are not proficient) and I:
1. Cannot justify spending a feat to acquire tower shield proficiency and,
2. Am unwilling to take 1 level of fighter to get the feat for free

I am unwilling to take the 1 level of fighter because the druid capstone gives me an extra 2d6 sneak attack damage while in wolf form. I can't spend the feat otherwise because it doesn't leave room for all the natural fighting feats, precision (+5% attack and [and this is the important part for me] 25% fortification bypass), and the shield mastery feats (for improved doublestrike percentage, improved ac, and physical resistance rating). I had wanted the tower shield for the ac and prr, but them's the breaks: I just can't afford that feat in this build.

[Juduss]

Thanx Coyopa. In the class info where it discusses granted proficiencies, it allows wooden shields but specifies no towers - not even wooden ones. That's where my confusion stemmed from. Can't say I wanted to do it my self, but I would prefer to refrain from giving out bad information. Much appreciated :)

[Khatzhas]

One thought that does occur, but that might be a bit too far from your original concept, would be to drop the shield and Rogue dilli in favour of Monk dilettante. Its sparked by the idea that you will be using the Frozen Tunic rather than armour that will give you PRR.

You lose: DPS in the form of the rogue sneak attack and the doublestrike.
Some PRR from the shield feats.

You gain: Heal amplification: works very well with the Druid healing spells.
Wisdom enhancement.

If you can get or craft a couple of Kama, one with the damaging effects that you want your animal strikes to deliver, and one with the spell boosts of your choice, or effects that do not rely on weapon strike (Incite, Vertigo etc). You should be able to carry them both in animal form, but attack without the dual-wield penalty, delivering only the effects of the main-hand weapon.

Otherwise, if you're willing to give up the frozen tunic, keep an eye on the auction house for old sets of Hide armour. I don't know whether they still drop as items, or whether only suits that dropped before the update are in existence. This is Medium armour that a Druid can wear, and thus gets a higher PRR (14 at level 20) than leather (9) or tunic (none).
The trade-off may or may not be worth it in your eyes.
Once you start looking into epic-type gear, I'm not sure what options exist for Druid-wearable Medium armour.

[Lonnbeimnech]

Early on reaving roar is awesome in animal form...

Reaving roar works in human form too, have not tried it with elemental.

[Coyopa]

One thought that does occur, but that might be a bit too far from your original concept, would be to drop the shield and Rogue dilli in favour of Monk dilettante. Its sparked by the idea that you will be using the Frozen Tunic rather than armour that will give you PRR.

You lose: DPS in the form of the rogue sneak attack and the doublestrike.
Some PRR from the shield feats.

You gain: Heal amplification: works very well with the Druid healing spells.
Wisdom enhancement.

If you can get or craft a couple of Kama, one with the damaging effects that you want your animal strikes to deliver, and one with the spell boosts of your choice, or effects that do not rely on weapon strike (Incite, Vertigo etc). You should be able to carry them both in animal form, but attack without the dual-wield penalty, delivering only the effects of the main-hand weapon.

Otherwise, if you're willing to give up the frozen tunic, keep an eye on the auction house for old sets of Hide armour. I don't know whether they still drop as items, or whether only suits that dropped before the update are in existence. This is Medium armour that a Druid can wear, and thus gets a higher PRR (14 at level 20) than leather (9) or tunic (none).
The trade-off may or may not be worth it in your eyes.
Once you start looking into epic-type gear, I'm not sure what options exist for Druid-wearable Medium armour.

It had occurred to me last night to drop rogue dilettante in favor of fighter, but your post made me look at monk dilettante. It also occurred to me that I think druid was designed to max wisdom, even though you can go strength for things such as trip. However, before reconfiguring the build, I had checked this thread first and your post made me definitely look at this.

I also did some research into the Takedown spell. The DC is 11 plus the wisdom modifier plus anything that modifies the trip dc. Therefore, Vertigo items, exceptional combat mastery, and Legendary Tactics will all modify the DC of Takedown.

Initially, I had wanted to dump dexterity in favor of 2 more points into wisdom. However, that gets me only one additional dc on Takedown and it costs me the Precision feat, which I consider to be of paramount importance for the 25% fortification bypass. I have discovered with my rogue that fortification is what makes undead immune to sneak attacks. I knew this was true for constructs, but I always thought undead were simply immune no matter what you did.

All of this required me to rethink which epic destiny I was going to choose, as well. We'll come back to that. Here's the build:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Neutral Good Half-Elf Female
(20 Druid)
Hit Points: 322
Spell Points: 1702
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 9
Will: 20

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 14 16
Dexterity 14 16
Constitution 16 18
Intelligence 8 10
Wisdom 16 27
Charisma 8 10

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 2 3
Bluff -1 0
Concentration 7 27
Diplomacy -1 14
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle -1 0
Heal 3 8
Hide 2 3
Intimidate -1 0
Jump 4 14
Listen 3 8
Move Silently 2 3
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 0
Search -1 0
Spot 7 31
Swim 2 3
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Augment Summoning
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Monk


Level 2 (Druid)
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Wolf


Level 3 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness


Level 4 (Druid)


Level 5 (Druid)
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Bear


Level 6 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 7 (Druid)


Level 8 (Druid)
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Winter Wolf


Level 9 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Precision


Level 10 (Druid)


Level 11 (Druid)
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Dire Bear


Level 12 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 13 (Druid)
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Fire Elemental


Level 14 (Druid)


Level 15 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Natural Fighting


Level 16 (Druid)


Level 17 (Druid)
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Water Elemental


Level 18 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Natural Fighting


Level 19 (Druid)


Level 20 (Druid)
Enhancement: Druid Natural Adept
Enhancement: Druid Aggravate I
Enhancement: Druid Aggravate II
Enhancement: Druid Beastial Nature I
Enhancement: Druid Beastial Nature II
Enhancement: Druid Blood Moon Frenzy I
Enhancement: Druid Blood Moon Frenzy II
Enhancement: Druid Nature's Warrior I
Enhancement: Druid Nature's Warrior II
Enhancement: Druid Reaving Roar
Enhancement: Druid Vengeful Hunter I
Enhancement: Druid Vengeful Hunter II
Enhancement: Improved Monk Dilettante I
Enhancement: Improved Monk Dilettante II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Wisdom I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Druid Waxing Hoarfrost I
Enhancement: Druid Waxing Storm I
Enhancement: Druid Waxing Sun I
Enhancement: Druid Waxing Life I
Enhancement: Druid Energy of the Locus I
Enhancement: Druid Energy of the Locus II
Enhancement: Druid Energy of the Locus III
Enhancement: Druid Eminence of Hoarfrost I
Enhancement: Druid Eminence of Hoarfrost II
Enhancement: Druid Eminence of Hoarfrost III
Enhancement: Druid Eminence of the Storm I
Enhancement: Druid Eminence of the Storm II
Enhancement: Druid Eminence of the Storm III
Enhancement: Druid Eminence of the Sun I
Enhancement: Druid Eminence of the Sun II
Enhancement: Druid Eminence of the Sun III
Enhancement: Druid Eminence of Life I
Enhancement: Druid Eminence of Life II
Enhancement: Druid Eminence of Life III
Enhancement: Druid Wisdom I
Enhancement: Druid Wisdom II
Enhancement: Druid Wisdom III
Enhancement: Druid Toughness I
Enhancement: Druid Toughness II




As you can see, shields and shield mastery have been dropped from the build. So, I took Mental Toughness in place of Shield Mastery. I moved Precision to L9 and started taking Natural Fighting at L15. I made that choice because I felt like Precision would be a bigger benefit at L9 than Natural Fighting because it will help against the large amounts of undead you really start to face at that level. So, if anyone were to choose to copy this build, then I felt like I owed it to them on that off-chance to optimise this build across all the levels, rather than ignore that simply because my druid is already L16.

For the epic level feats, there are a couple of choices. One path is to take Improved Mental Toughness and Epic Mental Toughness, but this is something I'm not sure would be a good choice. It would really depend upon how quickly you find yourself burning spell points. My feeling is that if you are in wolf form most of the time, you won't be struggling to manage that resource and so these feats will give you more of an already pretty much endless resource.

The other feat path is Natural Fighting for the third time and either an additional Toughness (for the 2nd time) or one of: Maximize, Empower, Empower Healing Spell. This is the path I'm planning with the second feat probably being Maximize. Maximize affects the Vigor line of spells and my offensive spells, but not Regenerate. So, may change it to Empower Healing Spell in order to affect Regenerate, as well, which will leave my offensive spells untouched, of course.

As for weapons, I like the idea of the kamas. That plan also happens to leave her defensively centered, setting her up to take Grandmaster of Flowers destiny. That destiny lets me boost her wisdom an additional four points, bringing to 40 at L25 with Grandmaster of Flowers destiny fully leveled up. This also grants her a +3 to her tactical feats, meaning it will bring the DC of Takedown up by 3, as well, for a total DC of 50: 11 + 15 (wisdom) + 10 (vertigo) + 5 (exceptional combat mastery) + 6 (Legendary Tactics) + 3 (GM of Flowers innates).

From what I can tell, a tripped enemy is not considered to be 'helpless', as when stunned, paralysed, etc. Thus, Sense Weakness from Fury of the Wild won't be helpful. Also, Takedown is considered to be of the spell school "Innate Attack", which means that Precise Casting (from Draconic Incarnation) and School Specialist (from Magister) will not boost the DC of Takedown.

Therefore, the twists I'm thinking right now are: Brace For Impact, Legendary Tactics, and Grim Precision. This will bring my fortification to 140%, get me that 50 DC on Takedown, and bring my fortification bypass to 50%, making me even stronger against undead and constructs. Invest 3 points into Enlightenment and I can get my passive ki regeneration up to 2, which will help me to make use of some of the GM of Flowers destiny abilities. Plus, the Frozen Tunic or Spider-spun Caparison will net me 1 ki on each strike. I'll probably never get to make use of Everything is Nothing since I have no Stunning Fist or Quivering Palm (and, let's face it, Stunning Fist runs that counter right up!), but I can use Drifting Lotus and Scattering of Petals. Also, many of the abilities from GM of Flowers will be helpful, such as Dance of Flowers and several others.

Finally, by maximising wisdom, you gain the flexibility to switch to an elemental form and nuke/heal because your spell DC's will be pretty good and your cooldowns will be normal (instead of 1.5 times normal). Also, if you at least acquire Precise Casting and School Specialist, then you can twist them in if you know you're going the more spell-casting route for a quest, rather than wolf form. In fact, you could probably switch entirely to Draconic Incarnation destiny and make use of a couple of other fabulous twists rather than Grim Precision and Legendary Tactics and those wonderful DI abilities.

[Coyopa]

So, I realised that if I changed the gear just a bit, I could squeeze another four wisdom into this build. So, here is the gear:

Goggles: Lenses of the Woodsman (True Seeing, Attack Bonus +3, Seeker +6)

Helm: Green Steel Helm (+45 hp, +6 exceptional bonus to Constitution skills, +5 Protection, Heavy Fortification)

Necklace: Green Steel Necklace (Wizardry 6, +150 Spell Points, Concordant Opposition, +1 exceptional bonus Intelligence skills, +5 exceptional bonus Charisma skills, +10 Diplomacy, +10 Haggle, +6 Wisdom)

Trinket: Pale Lavender Ioun Stone (Spell Absorption, 50 charges, Recharged/Day: 15)

Cloak: Epic Cloak of Night (Invisibility Guard, Ghostly, Deathblock, Nightmare Guard, Dodge Bonus 2%, DR 5/Good)

Belt: Epic Spare Hand (Riposte, Exceptional Combat Mastery +5, Staggering Blow, Disable Device +15, Open Lock +15, Use Magical Device +3, Doublestrike 3%, Colorless Augment Slot [+1 Exceptional Wisdom], Blue Augment Slot [Natural Armor Bonus +4])

Ring: Seal of House Dun'Robar (Constitution +7, Dodge Bonus 4%, Vertigo +10)

Gloves: Epic Brawling Gloves (Strength +7, Spike Studded, Glass Jaw Strike, Sneak Attack Bonus +4, Yellow Augment Slot [Fear Immunity])

Boots: Epic Rock Boots (Superior Corrosion(90) IX,Epic Corrosion(90) VI, Superior Acid Lore, Stone Prison Guard, Earthgrab Guard, Slippery Surface Immunity, Inherent (10) Acid Resistance, Colorless Augment Slot [+6 Intelligence], Yellow Augment Slot [Feather Falling])

Ring: Seal of House Avithoul (+7 Wisdom, +5 Sneak Attack, +3 Exceptional Sneak Attack, Improved Deception)

Bracers: Epic Bracers of Wind (Magnetism +90, Superior Lightning Lore, Blurry, Dodge Bonus 3%, Air Guard, Inherent (10) Lightning Resistance, Colorless Augment Slot [+6 Dexterity], Yellow Augment Slot [Blindness Immunity])

Armor: Spider-spun Caparison (Insightful Wisdom +3, Armor Bonus +9, Resistance Save +6, Enhanced Ki +1, Reinforced Fists, Concentration +15, Toughness)

Quiver: Quiver of Alacrity, upgraded (30% Striding, 10% Ranged Alacrity)

This leaves out weapons and I did that by design. With five wisdom enhancements from Grandmaster of Flowers and the gear listed above, then you get to 44 wisdom. Also, by changing the Frozen Tunic for the Spider-spun Caparison, I have:

1. Reduced the grind required (just grind enough to get Frozen Tunic base item to get you from L20 to L22)
2. Improved the wisdom, armor class, resistances, damage, and concentration
3. Removed the requirement to slot Toughness, further reducing grind

The improved concentration will mean that my ki decays more slowly once I've exceeded my stable ki (that range of ki where you neither regenerate nor decay any ki). Since this build will only have 105 ki available to it (60 from GMoF innates and 45 from Enlightenment), then reducing ki decay will be important. Fortunately, this build also has only four abilities that actually require the use of any ki: Lily Petal, Orchid Blossom, Drifting Lotus, and Scattering of Petals. All the other GMoF abilities will not require the use of ki.