So... Druids

[gallantian]

They have been out for a while now. People have capped them, TR'ed them, splashed them, fried and broiled them. I started one last week and though I'm only at 10, and there is more to come, the elemental shapeshift looks promising, and body of the sun, I admit I'm not real impressed. I think I like my Bard more. Anyway, just curious about peoples thought on the Druid.

[C-Shell]

almost every party in the game has to wait for a healer in their group. more often then not, the party has to party ways because they couldnt find a healer.

i just dont see why they didnt make the druid a decent healing class. it would have helped out soo much.

[Nullaer]

I thoroughly enjoy my druid. Went the DPS wolf route and I am able to solo most stuff I need to do. I've ever been the "healer" in a few pugs. I'm looking forward to some Storm of Vengeance later on :)

[karsion]

They have been out for a while now. People have capped them, TR'ed them, splashed them, fried and broiled them. I started one last week and though I'm only at 10, and there is more to come, the elemental shapeshift looks promising, and body of the sun, I admit I'm not real impressed. I think I like my Bard more. Anyway, just curious about peoples thought on the Druid.

After six years in the making druids were sure to be a letfown unless they came with grilled bacon.

They are certainly not as innovative as artis were (as druids take some mechanics from artis) but still are fun to play. They are similar in toolboxiness to (again) artis and have some nice stuff going on for them (pet, Body, Easthquake).

Overall nice if not gamechanging.

[gallantian]

After six years in the making druids were sure to be a letfown unless they came with grilled bacon.

They are certainly not as innovative as artis were (as druids take some mechanics from artis) but still are fun to play. They are similar in toolboxiness to (again) artis and have some nice stuff going on for them (pet, Body, Easthquake).

Overall nice if not gamechanging.

Agreed, toolboxiness is a good word to use here. I found the artificier to be fresh new and innovative, a fun new class to play. They fit in well with the current line up and affered another trapper class to boot. The Druid on the other hand, I found stale, like a ranger wizard cleric multiclass.

[HatsuharuZ]

I haven't played the druid class, but after looking at the spell list I think it's a bit inadequate. I think they need more elemental spells, some sort of rage spell, and at least two mass cure spells. I also feel that they didn't put much thought into the spellpower enhancements.

[bringjoy]

almost every party in the game has to wait for a healer in their group. more often then not, the party has to party ways because they couldnt find a healer.

i just dont see why they didnt make the druid a decent healing class. it would have helped out soo much.

Every PUG i've been in with Druids, they don't heal any one except themselves 90% of the time. Yesterday, I joined a PUG with 2 16th lvl druids and 1 16th lvl Bard and they said all they wanted was a "Healer".

Don't know about other servers, but on Khyber most folks playing Druids don't want to heal and since DDO already has 2 really good healing classes no point in adding Druid to the list. My Druid has good healing, not up to the standards of my cleric IMO, but still good and she has better dps than my cleric.

[Charononus]

After leveling a caster form druid to 25 here are my thoughts.

The caster prc is extremely weak, most the time you will still choose your spells according to the type of mob you are fighting not what season you are in. At end game that means you're going to be a water elemental most of the time, dropping the prc actually will help you more as you can fully max either ice or fire lines and fill up your devotion spwr enhancements minus the crit portion. This will allow you to effectively heal six man groups through epic hard. I haven't tried healing an epic elite because I feel it could get too rough to heal without mass heal, same with raids.

Other problems are that your ice dots (creeping cold and greater creeping cold) clear out niac's biting cold preventing you from doing much damage in a party with an arcane. The ice nuke ice flowers is nice but fairly costly so you won't be casting that much except to finish off a pack of mobs or to finish off a boss.

The best part of the druid toolkit is earthquake, currently I have a 50 dc earthquake that holds up well in most content, as it is a persistant cc that ignores spell resistance it's an extremely powerful tool. It'll also cc things immune to mind control such as spiders.

Over all however I can't wait till I get my 20th adq in so that I can tr out of this class into something with more endgame potential. Toss in the mass cure line and fix the dots I'd be happy playing this at endgame but without them it just feels too gimped compared to other classes.

[dterror]

almost every party in the game has to wait for a healer in their group. more often then not, the party has to party ways because they couldnt find a healer.

i just dont see why they didnt make the druid a decent healing class. it would have helped out soo much.

Druids can be built as a decent healing class, far better than a bard, and many of those have been used as primary healers for a long time now even in raids.

No, a Druid isn't going to be dropping 800 point mass heals, but my druid has no problem being in the middle of the melee and dropping mass regens that heal for around 800 total during it's duration, and a mass greater vigor that does about 400 total during it's duration.

Running some of the House D chain on e-elite yesterday, the healer FvS we had in the party never had to throw any heals themselves until the final fight of each quest we did, and even then they only had to heal themselves and the arcane who were nowhere near the melee fight the couple times they got hit by something.

[oweieie]

Weak at high level. Intentionally gimped by Turbine by removing the mass cure spells and by making spells require being in a specific form. Better at melee than other casters (although way behind actual melee) but way behind other casters for casting.

[MartinusWyllt]

almost every party in the game has to wait for a healer in their group. more often then not, the party has to party ways because they couldnt find a healer.

Unless you're talking about specific raids/quests we're not playing the same game. Having someone healing is a bonus in the game I play for most content, normally I just make sure I have enough heal scrolls.

[karsion]

Every PUG i've been in with Druids, they don't heal any one except themselves 90% of the time. Yesterday, I joined a PUG with 2 16th lvl druids and 1 16th lvl Bard and they said all they wanted was a "Healer".

Don't know about other servers, but on Khyber most folks playing Druids don't want to heal and since DDO already has 2 really good healing classes no point in adding Druid to the list. My Druid has good healing, not up to the standards of my cleric IMO, but still good and she has better dps than my cleric.

Well, that is the problem with the players, not the class. Druids can give a decent healing and if the group is good they may with success act as a main healer.

That being said I encountered the problem too: once the druid joins and I say no need to look for a healer the fruid is quick with his "I am not healing specced" spiel.

[azmodeus1]

people still build toons that arne't self sufficient? byoh is the reality. caster/melee fvs/clr, wf arcanes, pm, arits, druids, monks, helf dilli ftr/barbs, sf pots. noone wants to have to heal you and in ddo there really isn't much excuse anymore.

[riexau]

Well, that is the problem with the players, not the class. Druids can give a decent healing and if the group is good they may with success act as a main healer.

That being said I encountered the problem too: once the druid joins and I say no need to look for a healer the fruid is quick with his "I am not healing specced" spiel.

Playing devils advocate here, but druids suffer from the lack of an 'in-combat' res. Any content where you might get insta-gibbed you really don't want a druid casting his 20 second reincarnation.

And any content where you won't get insta-gibbed can probably be done just as quickly with byoh as opposed to getting a druid healer.

I love my druid, but I've come to accept the fact that he can fill any role except that of primary healer (easily the best secondary healer in the game though, bar none).

[Diyon]

After leveling a caster form druid to 25 here are my thoughts.

The caster prc is extremely weak, most the time you will still choose your spells according to the type of mob you are fighting not what season you are in. At end game that means you're going to be a water elemental most of the time, dropping the prc actually will help you more as you can fully max either ice or fire lines and fill up your devotion spwr enhancements minus the crit portion. This will allow you to effectively heal six man groups through epic hard. I haven't tried healing an epic elite because I feel it could get too rough to heal without mass heal, same with raids.

Other problems are that your ice dots (creeping cold and greater creeping cold) clear out niac's biting cold preventing you from doing much damage in a party with an arcane. The ice nuke ice flowers is nice but fairly costly so you won't be casting that much except to finish off a pack of mobs or to finish off a boss.

The best part of the druid toolkit is earthquake, currently I have a 50 dc earthquake that holds up well in most content, as it is a persistant cc that ignores spell resistance it's an extremely powerful tool. It'll also cc things immune to mind control such as spiders.

Over all however I can't wait till I get my 20th adq in so that I can tr out of this class into something with more endgame potential. Toss in the mass cure line and fix the dots I'd be happy playing this at endgame but without them it just feels too gimped compared to other classes.

Seasons is actually pretty nice for some non-animal melee types (2d6 light damage, 15% healing amp, is pretty nice to have).

The DoTs are already fixed as of Update 15, I checked. (PreU15 I would see the niac's disappear from the examination window when I cast it, PostU15 I saw both up at the same time)

[rnor6084]

I refuse to heal as a druid. Ive tried playing a cleric before and did not like it.

What is the big deal? I rarely see clerics in pugs anymore and i rarely see them in guild runs either. Big deal. The quests get completed. So what if there is no healer.

I see a few people complaining about druids not healing them. If it is your group you have every right to deny them if they are not healer builds.

Otherwise, until you start paying for my sub you have no business telling me how i should be playing my druid. I did not build her to wave wands around and spam weak healing spells to keep you alive. I built her to have fun. Healing you is not fun.

BYOH

[FrancisP.Fancypants]

people still build toons that arne't self sufficient? byoh is the reality. caster/melee fvs/clr, wf arcanes, pm, arits, druids, monks, helf dilli ftr/barbs, sf pots. noone wants to have to heal you and in ddo there really isn't much excuse anymore.

Not wanting to grind out necro favor (or spend TP on the packs) just to get SF pots for non-helf fighter or barbarian is a pretty decent excuse IMO.

But healing aside, druids just haven't done much for me. They're in line with bards and arties as far as a 'jack of all trades' class, but the stuff that's unique to those classes (like songs or repeater proficiency) are, for a druid, just more things another class is better at. They're solo-friendly, but still behind arties and any self-healing caster as far as that goes. Maybe in a few months we'll have some super-druid builds, or maybe Turbine will actually do a PRE update and they'll get better. For now, I'm pretty indifferent.

[Charononus]

Seasons is actually pretty nice for some non-animal melee types (2d6 light damage, 15% healing amp, is pretty nice to have).

The DoTs are already fixed as of Update 15, I checked. (PreU15 I would see the niac's disappear from the examination window when I cast it, PostU15 I saw both up at the same time)

Good to know

[Archangel666]

The problem with Druids, (IMO) is that they're badly designed and poorly implemented.

They suffer from four main problems.

1: Their Healing ability seems to be designed based on the AC changes and under the premise that players will be taking less damage and just need the occasional top up.

The reality? Unless you're over levelled for the content and running on casual this just isn't the case. Players still take big spikes in damage and need to be healed a lot.

2: Druid's damaging spells seem to be designed under the premise that everyone will have multiple past lives in other classes. At level 22 my Druid has 42 WIS (43 technically, but that extra 1 does nothing), Spell Focus Evocation, Greater Spell focus Evocation, Epic Spell Focus Evocation, Heighten and a Greater Spell Focus Evocation item (Blasting Chime) and ship buffs and the best I can manage is 40 DC on Evo spells. In challenging content everything just evades.

3: Lack of spells. Perfect example to illustrate my point. Druids get an Enhancement Line Eminence of the Hoarfrost. This line boosts Cold and Acid spells. Guess how many Acid spells Druids get?

One.

Storm of Vengance.

That's it.

And for that one spell Druids get less benefit per level of Enhancement (Because it's for two Elements).

4: Lack of Spell Points. Everything costs SP, even animal form abilities and at level 22 my Druid has 2294 SP. It doesn't last two seconds in challenging content. To get the most out of spells you often have to combine them. Earthquake with Ice Storm etc. This eats away at your SP pool very fast.

*Edit*

I know I said four but I just thought of some others.

5: Druids are a pet class. I can't see how anyone can argue with this fact given that they get Spontaneous casting of Summons and an Animal Companion (*cough*Give Rangers their pet!* cough*) however because summons don't scale as the caster does this kinda screws Druids. Fighting a Fire Ellie? Well sorry but the highest level summons are Dryad and Fire Ellie. Want to use a Water Elemental against it? Well you can but it's considerably lower level and will get one-shotted.

6: Mass Buffs. Given Druids are supposed to be surrounded by pets, Summons, Charmed mobs, Improved Wild Empathy, Animal Companion. Why don't Druids get most of the mass buffs again?

[Charononus]

The problem with Druids, (IMO) is that they're badly designed and poorly implemented.

They suffer from four main problems.

2: Druid's damaging spells seem to be designed under the premise that everyone will have multiple past lives in other classes. At level 22 my Druid has 42 WIS (43 technically, but that extra 1 does nothing), Spell Focus Evocation, Greater Spell focus Evocation, Epic Spell Focus Evocation, Heighten and a Greater Spell Focus Evocation item (Blasting Chime) and ship buffs and the best I can manage is 40 DC on Evo spells. In challenging content everything just evades.



18 starting wis
3 tome
8 item
3 insightful
3 enhancement
6 lvl up
2 capstone
2 yugo
2 ship buff
47 wis total
assuming shiradi destiny or something that has wisdom in it's stat list you could take an additional 3 wisdom for 50 wisdom

so that's +20 to your dc

so for earthquake you can get
10 +9 is base with heighten
20 stat
3 spell focus,greater spell focus, epic spell focus feats
2 greater evocation focus item
3 magister evocation focus twist of fate
2 draconic evocation focus twist of fate
=49 evocation dc

I actually have 5 wisdom in shiradi not 3 which gives me a total of 50 dc for earthquake
I hope this helps.

[Memnir]

Anyway, just curious about peoples thought on the Druid.I wanted to like Druids, I really did. I tried. While they were on Llama, I explored just about every build I could think of, and leveled them with the extreme XP there.


I was disappointed with every single one. They don't have a single selling point that makes them stand out compared to any of the other classes beyond the sheer gimmick that is fighting in another shape. And those... are badly animated, feel clumsy as hell, annoying that special form-based attacks must take up spell-slots, and just generally "felt" bad to play.

Then you get to the obnoxious/useless PrEs, and how much they added a nice bitter garnish to the already underwhelming Druid, and I stopped trying to find the Druid love. For me, it is a totally failed implementation of the class, from A to Z. They have the capacity to do a lot of things - but they do all of them markedly worse than any of the other classes and when trying to do a few of them at once they simply cannot keep up.

I don't know if it's just me who is not clicking with the Druids... but judging by how few of them I see running around the game, I wouldn't think so. I've kept my Druid around for now, in the hopes that Turbine is able to improve them over time, ala Pale Master - and make the class into something more then the pile of gimp that is is now. But right now, Druids are a really big pile of gimp.

[oweieie]

Well, that is the problem with the players, not the class. Druids can give a decent healing and if the group is good they may with success act as a main healer.

A lot of the problem is the class. Turbine's ridiculous extra cooldown while in form + making spells that work only in form = class forcing you to be gimp. Also they added a lot of trap spells to get people to be in form to melee, even though they can't melee worth **** at higher levels without gimping themselves out of casting ability.

Good players can compensate for a bad class and get something out of it if they're will to put up with lots of form switching and gear swapping. The problem is, very few players are any good, or want to jump through the very un-fun hoops required to make the class work. They'd rather turn on autoattack and watch pretty numbers scroll by and pretend they're contributing, when they're not.


I see a few people complaining about druids not healing them. If it is your group you have every right to deny them if they are not healer builds.

A "healing build" is having the heal spell and a potency item and 1 point put into enhancements. If a druid can't do that then they're a waste of a party spot.


Otherwise, until you start paying for my sub you have no business telling me how i should be playing my druid.

So then you won't have a problem with how I play my characters either when I step into the quest and AFK at the entrance while you do the quest for me. That is EXACTLY what your waste of space character is doing. Oh you might enjoy running along pretending to help, but had your waste of space character not been there the quest would get done faster and more easily thanks to dungeon scaling.

If you can't heal a party as a druid, you suck at druid. If you suck at druid, you're not contributing to the party. If you're not contributing to the party, play a single player game or stop gimping up groups with your suckishness.

[Coyopa]

I got my druid to L16 and then shelved her until I can work out to rebuild her to be effective. I built her to be in wolf form, meleeing (sneak attacking), using cold spells on occasion, and being able to heal (obviously, not in wolf form when required to be the primary healer). While I have found this build to be fun up to now, she is starting to suck because she doesn't have the hitpoints or the armour class to melee anymore.

She's got Natural Fighting (x2 or x3, I can't remember), Shield Mastery, Improved Critical: Bludgeoning (maybe Slashing, but I think Bludgeoning since wolf and bear forms both count as bludgeoning plus slashing/piercing as appropriate), uses a wooden tower shield for the improved physical resistance. I can't remember all her feats and such since it's been about 45 days since I played her.

I've been thinking about LR'ing her and setting her up to be a caster instead, but I figure I've already got a wizard and don't particularly want another caster. Although, I suppose it could be argued I don't need another melee type since I've got: monk, rogue, barbarian, fighter, paladin, and ranger.

So, that's why I shelved her for now. I need some time away from her to really examine her properly again later on and I'm also hoping that some helpful information will pop up on the forums.

[Tirisha]

Haven't played a druid so I'll ask you guys:

Aren't druids the best tank healers in the game? from what I hear they have 2 dot heals they can stack up on somebody and still get the heal spell.

[Archangel666]

Haven't played a druid so I'll ask you guys:

Aren't druids the best tank healers in the game? from what I hear they have 2 dot heals they can stack up on somebody and still get the heal spell.

Druid HoT's don't stack. Highest only applies. If you're healing a tank you're using Regenerate (Likely with empower/Empower Healing) Druids do get the Heal Spell along with Cure Critical Wounds and Cure Serious Wounds but it's tricky balancing them all.

Do you cast Cure Serious now or wait a second for Regen to tick?

[FZTopaz]

If you can't heal a party as a druid, you suck at druid. If you suck at druid, you're not contributing to the party. If you're not contributing to the party, play a single player game or stop gimping up groups with your suckishness.

Ahh...what? I'm sorry, but no, my Bearbarian is not gimped just because he can't heal the party. It's not how I built him. Sorry dude, the world doesn't revolve around your terrible opinion.

That being said, I happen to really love being a druid. Again, made a Bearbarian. Only 13 right now (10 druid, 2 barb, 1 ftr). I'm a tank who can self heal. I can heal the party in emergencies, but the highest heal I can get is Mass Greater Vigor and Regeneration (single). I have my one AP spent, and have my potency item. But no, I cannot take the place of a real healer because a) I have a small mana pool (not specced for that) and b) not my playstyle. I can tank, throw a heal if neccessary on myself or someone else in an emergency, but I cannot heal an entire party. I didn't build for that...

Now, onto the what I think of druid. It's the most fun class I've played so far, and easily my second favorite character right now (I've invested too much into my wizard for it not to be my favorite :-P). I run Dire bear form almost exclusively, but can switch to winter wolf (in a few levels anyway....) for DPS if the party I'm in has a good tank already, or even elemental form (again, in the futre) and be a caster if it calls for it. But for the most part, I'm a tank.

Running into a crowd with cleave+paralyzing weapon, throwing a creeping cold on the red name, tossing down a firewall where I stand while everyone in the party focuses their attention on the red name and I take care of the mob. Cleave to get everyone paralyzed again, kill one, reaving roar takes care of the rest...toss a heal over to the main party, heal myself, and continue. I remember the game being much harder on my wizard and barbarian than it is on my druid. Things fall easily, the combinations that druid has are unmatched by anything else.

The biggest problem, and I am echoing a statement I had seen elsewhere, is that most people want to play a druid like another class. Play it like a druid. There are no problems with this class, at all. Even as a "slow" bear, I hit fast, hit hard, and kill things before I get hurt too much. My wife's DPS focused wolf hits does almost the same DPS as her monk, while being able to cast spells as well! And my friends caster druid...well...it kinda sucks...but most of his builds do...not sure why everything from a caster to a rogue must have heavy armor and shield proficiency....but oh well ;-)

Plus...have you SEEN the bear dances?! Worth the purchase in and of itself!

[jskinner937]

Every PUG i've been in with Druids, they don't heal any one except themselves 90% of the time. Yesterday, I joined a PUG with 2 16th lvl druids and 1 16th lvl Bard and they said all they wanted was a "Healer".

Don't know about other servers, but on Khyber most folks playing Druids don't want to heal and since DDO already has 2 really good healing classes no point in adding Druid to the list. My Druid has good healing, not up to the standards of my cleric IMO, but still good and she has better dps than my cleric.

So obviously you have not played a druid if you wonder why they dont heal parties. There are 3 very obvious reasons they make inadequate healers...

1.) No mass healing
2.) No wand and scroll mastery
3.) Limited spell pool

Spring resurgence is nice if people would understand to stay still when they hit 50% health and ask for it to be refreshed.

I play a caster type druid (max wis and carry scrolls), but I do not heal parties because the resources to do so in most parties would be too expensive and inefficient. I backup heal or heal in the right self-sufficient party other than that any PUG I am in is BYOH. If you want a party healer take a cleric or fvs. If you want a caster that can support the party with buffs, backup heals and raises then take a druid. You wouldn't have a pally solo heal a party unless it was the right party would you...almost same thing. Honestly, most bards would make better party healers than druids...at least they have masses and wand and scroll mastery.

[jskinner937]

A lot of the problem is the class. Turbine's ridiculous extra cooldown while in form + making spells that work only in form = class forcing you to be gimp. Also they added a lot of trap spells to get people to be in form to melee, even though they can't melee worth **** at higher levels without gimping themselves out of casting ability.

Good players can compensate for a bad class and get something out of it if they're will to put up with lots of form switching and gear swapping. The problem is, very few players are any good, or want to jump through the very un-fun hoops required to make the class work. They'd rather turn on autoattack and watch pretty numbers scroll by and pretend they're contributing, when they're not.



So then you won't have a problem with how I play my characters either when I step into the quest and AFK at the entrance while you do the quest for me. That is EXACTLY what your waste of space character is doing. Oh you might enjoy running along pretending to help, but had your waste of space character not been there the quest would get done faster and more easily thanks to dungeon scaling.

If you can't heal a party as a druid, you suck at druid. If you suck at druid, you're not contributing to the party. If you're not contributing to the party, play a single player game or stop gimping up groups with your suckishness.


A "healing build" is having the heal spell and a potency item and 1 point put into enhancements. If a druid can't do that then they're a waste of a party spot.



Again you obviously haven't played a druid if you think they are only good for healing. I play a caster druid and I can tell you that I lead kills over wizzies, sorcs and any melee 90% of the time through level 18. I have a nice finger if no spell resistance, body of sun + firewall + firestorm equals a dead room in a second in fire ellie form.

A druid is a jack of all trades class like bard...they can be melee or caster, but because they are divine and get the heal spell does not make them a primary healer no more than a paladin is. Spell points only go so far and with no on demand free healing and no wand and scroll mastery you cannot rely on scroll healing.

You sir have blinders on and obviously need to roll up a druid to see what they are capable of before critisize the play style of many when you dont know their role yourself.

[jandhaer]

The last few levels of my mains previous life (the last week or so, basically giant hold and beyond) I kept running into and with a druid who was easily capable of solo healing the group (when we bothered posting for one) especially combined with the druids CC spells, we would run run run aggroing tons of mobs then there would be earthquakes and lightning everywhere and we would mow them down with ease (even on elites)

Sounds like they might need some tweaking, but more likely people just need to focus on what niche they want to fill and go for it. Its a lot easier to be a generalist when you have many past lives and a bank full of raid and crafted gear.

[oweieie]

Ahh...what? I'm sorry, but no, my Bearbarian is not gimped just because he can't heal the party. It's not how I built him. Sorry dude, the world doesn't revolve around your terrible opinion.

And yet you think it revolves around your wrong one.


That being said, I happen to really love being a druid. Again, made a Bearbarian. Only 13 right now (10 druid, 2 barb, 1 ftr). I'm a tank who can self heal.

You've made a fail. To be a good druid you need to switch forms, not stay in bear form (which is far and away the worst form anyway) like you later say you do. Also at 13 by FAR your best option is cold breath with which you can be 1-shotting large groups of mobs and blowing through quests in minutes flat. Your build doesn't even have evasion for crying out loud. Not only is a bear form build bad, but you've made a bad bear form build!


The biggest problem, and I am echoing a statement I had seen elsewhere, is that most people want to play a druid like another class. Play it like a druid.

Overly ironic coming from a guy who has built a druid to not be able to heal and stays primarily in bear form. YOU are the one not playing it like a druid. There is NO excuse for a druid not to be able to heal. There is NO excuse to remain in one form. THAT is nota druid, that is a really lousy player trying to play the druid as a melee.

[Juduss]

The biggest problem... is that most people want to play a druid like another class. Play it like a druid.
^This^
After reading so many "Druids suck!" threads, I've realized I must have really screwed up somewhere. This is my first Meele-Caster hybrid toon, and hands down it's the most enjoyable character I've played in my 2+ years in the game. Maybe it's because I don't have to be mathematically superior to everyone around me, maybe it's because I can solo most @level elite content while leveling, maybe it's because I can (and sadly have had to) carry some parties through said leveling. Not saying I've never died, traps can be nasty & sometimes I just plain goof up. But as the mighty forumites have declared Druid worthless I surely must have made a mistake somewhere...

Or maybe, just maybe... It's because I didn't try to make the best caster possible, nor did I try to make the highest dps meele in the game, nor did I allow the fact that I get the heal spell to pigeon-hole me into the straight healer role. And i don't find myself chugging mana pots either. I combine spells with weapons to the best advantage I can, and throw heals when they're needed. Don't really understand all the Druid bashing I see. Could they use more mana? Sure, it would be nice to not have pay any attention to my blue bar. Animal forms? Not fond of 'em myself but others sure seem to be. Spell selection seems fine to me, and being able to swap at shrines for situational needs is a leg up over sorcs & fs's in my opinion.

I thought about posting my build for the mighty forumites to trash at they're leisure, but instead I'll just say that on Thelanis, my Druid truly is a force of nature.

Go ahead, point out how I must be a noob, because I obviously messed up somewhere to enjoy such an unplayably gimped class...

[Archangel666]

And yet you think it revolves around your wrong one.



You've made a fail. To be a good druid you need to switch forms, not stay in bear form (which is far and away the worst form anyway) like you later say you do. Also at 13 by FAR your best option is cold breath with which you can be 1-shotting large groups of mobs and blowing through quests in minutes flat. Your build doesn't even have evasion for crying out loud. Not only is a bear form build bad, but you've made a bad bear form build!



Overly ironic coming from a guy who has built a druid to not be able to heal and stays primarily in bear form. YOU are the one not playing it like a druid. There is NO excuse for a druid not to be able to heal. There is NO excuse to remain in one form. THAT is nota druid, that is a really lousy player trying to play the druid as a melee.

The problem here is that Druids are a caster class. They NEED max WIS and levels up in WIS if they want to have any chance of spells actually landing. Otherwise the DC's just end up so low that everything evades and you do sod all damage.

I used to feel as you and that Druids need to be built more like a Monk being more MAD than focussed, but it just doesn't work.

Sacrificing points in WIS for example in order to boost STR etc for the animal forms means basically that your spells later on are largely useless and it's not like Druids get a ton of spells.

If you think otherwise, take the entire list of druid spells and remove all the Animal Form ones.

Now remove the Elemental Form ones. Look how many are left.

[Qhualor]

@ oweieie

i sense a lot of anger in you young one. maybe its time for a coffee break?

instead of saying "your build is fail!" how about you come up with a "proper" build for druid. i see you have pigeon holed the class as healer only. i wonder what you call bards?

also, druid is still a brand new class. people are still figuring it out and according to many posts in this thread, the people who have been playing one are saying its underwhelming.

after your coffee break, i look forward to your input.

[Juduss]

To be a good druid you need to switch forms
umm... Why, and at what rate?
Oh, and Thanx for admitting that one can be a good Druid, much in contradiction to the impression I received from your other posts ;)

[FZTopaz]

You've made a fail. To be a good druid you need to switch forms, not stay in bear form (which is far and away the worst form anyway) like you later say you do. Also at 13 by FAR your best option is cold breath with which you can be 1-shotting large groups of mobs and blowing through quests in minutes flat. Your build doesn't even have evasion for crying out loud. Not only is a bear form build bad, but you've made a bad bear form build!

I'm sorry, I didn't realize you were the be all end all of everything in the universe!!! All hail....who are you again?

Anyway, point is this. We pick the characters we want because we like to play them. Funnily enough, I'm having no issues going through quests. No, I'm not one-shotting everything, but what fun would that be? I'm sorry, my e-peen (real one too) is adequate enough for me to not give a rats.....can I say patootie on forums?....about what you think. My opinion isn't wrong, it's just MY opinion. Yours is that everyone better play a way that YOU decide so that YOU can enjoy YOUR game and everyone else has to suffer YOUR wrath.

You are, by definition, a n00b. Someone who doesn't take anyone else's advice, and yet thinks they know everything about everything when, clearly, they have no idea what they are doing.

Also...


Overly ironic coming from a guy who has blah blah blah blah....durp

Irony - noun - the use of words to express something other than and especially the opposite of the literal meaning.

Sorry, I hate when people use irony or ironic when it really doesn't fit.

[riexau]

umm... Why, and at what rate?
Oh, and Thanx for admitting that one can be a good Druid, much in contradiction to the impression I received from your other posts ;)

There are lots of times you should be switching form!

1) When you die, so you can retake your original form.
2) When you need to use a scroll of teleport.
3) When you're last man (or wolf) standing and you need to raise 5 people (reinc cd in form is bad).
4) At the start of a quest before you start buffing.
5) At the start of a quest after you finish buffing.
6) When you need to range/kite stuff (like the queen)
7) When you're too short to break down doors (fixed as of U15!)
8) When you're 2 int/cha short of hitting that int/cha rune.
9) When you're 1 UMD short of using that item.
10) When you want to see what your new armor looks like. True story - I wore armor for 4 levels without knowing how hideous it looked.

That pretty much covers my list.

[FZTopaz]

umm... Why, and at what rate?
Oh, and Thanx for admitting that one can be a good Druid, much in contradiction to the impression I received from your other posts ;)

Oooo...forgot that part. Thanks for pointing it out. I love that druids suck yet can one shot entire mobs and finish quests in minutes!!!!

[jandhaer]

The problem here is that Druids are a caster class. They NEED max WIS and levels up in WIS if they want to have any chance of spells actually landing. Otherwise the DC's just end up so low that everything evades and you do sod all damage.

I used to feel as you and that Druids need to be built more like a Monk being more MAD than focussed, but it just doesn't work.

Sacrificing points in WIS for example in order to boost STR etc for the animal forms means basically that your spells later on are largely useless and it's not like Druids get a ton of spells.

If you think otherwise, take the entire list of druid spells and remove all the Animal Form ones.

Now remove the Elemental Form ones. Look how many are left.

I see what you mean here but I disagree as Ive seen many divines running around without maxing wisdom that can smash all available content all the WF FvS running around come immediately to mind, but also my guild is currently booming in battle clerics ( go ahead and flame on forumites I dare you, but then at least have the decency to come run with us :P )

And to whoever it was that said maybe the melees dont want to farm the necessary favor to get flame pots, or get their umd high enough whateves to increase their own survivability , well then go die elsewhere as if your not willing to grind for your gear then guess what, Im not going to do it for you either.

All a toon has to do to be succesful in DDO is keep itself alive longer then the mobs = you win. What manner you go about doing that is up to you and theres many many options available.

[Tyrande]

There are lots of times you should be switching form!

1) When you die, so you can retake your original form.
2) When you need to use a scroll of teleport.
3) When you're last man (or wolf) standing and you need to raise 5 people (reinc cd in form is bad).
4) At the start of a quest before you start buffing.
5) At the start of a quest after you finish buffing.
6) When you need to range/kite stuff (like the queen)
7) When you're too short to break down doors (fixed as of U15!)
8) When you're 2 int/cha short of hitting that int/cha rune.
9) When you're 1 UMD short of using that item.
10) When you want to see what your new armor looks like. True story - I wore armor for 4 levels without knowing how hideous it looked.

That pretty much covers my list.

Interesting read.

Add to that are:

When you are dealing with water vulnerable monsters you want to be in water elemental form to deal more damage while minimized incoming damage.

When you are dealing with fire vulnerable monsters like some undeads you want to be in fire elemental form.

When dealing with some damage reduction monsters depending on your form; bludgeoning when dealing with skeletons, for example.

Who knows, there might be more forms that are still in development for the Druid based destiny...

[wolfy42]

I think the problem many people have is they try to specialize in one thing too much, and find out the druid just doesn't compare well when you do that.

Druids can have quite decent melee damage. It's not comparable to a fighter or barbarian, but it's still pretty freaking good if you make a strength based build. Reaving Roar (which you can start with if you have vet 7), is pretty awesome through the early to mid levels...and still quite a decent boost when fighting masses late game. You generally need to kill 1 enemy to start a chain reaction with it, and abilities like cleave/great cleave work well there (1 crit hit that instant kills something and everything else goes down).

I'd say over all a druid is a better melee fighter then a melee oriented favored soul...or at least as good. You also have the advantage of being able to get quite high double strike chance with a base 30% faster attack speed (Which makes haste etc more useful as well). In effect you can just about get as many attacks as a TWF user when maxed out.

Melee is pretty impressive, but multiclassing can help a ton there. If you multiclass in some monk levels you'll get a ton out of it (2 monk levels for evasion, +2 feats, bonus saves etc)...that is really a great melee oriented build and with souleater throught he early levels the game is freaking cake.

Druids do drop off late game though, even melee druids. Even melee druids should not ignore all damage abilities though. Firewall even without high DCs is still quite useful for instance...and grabbing maximize is quite useful even just for healing purposes late game. No save spells like creaping cold etc work great with maximize as well.

The pets used to be over powered but are a bit more balanced now, still a nice little addition though...and of course has other uses throughout the game (no nead for hirelings to hit levels, ability to have step on 4 plates between summon/hireling/pet and yourself etc).

Reaving roar + cleaves can clear huge groups of enemies even late game. Self healing is more then good enough, and with just maximize you can do fairly well as off healer as well. Damage spells are not incredible...but it's better then a favored soul in most cases as well.

If you compare a druid to a favored soul...I don't think druids come off that bad. It's certainly not overpowered...but they have advantages and can be fun to play. It's not a WF sorc....but it's certainly playable.

[~Affinity]

I am a healer and I love to heal and be able to throw spells at the same time. I can main heal I have been one of two healers in a shroud, etc.

It depends on the player and their skills ,equipment and what they like to do.

I find most males just want to hit stuff and brag about how big their swords are and how many people they have killed.

I resent the put down, the druid class is awesome and has become my favorite although I have a tr'd level 24 cleric also.

If the druid is played by a former caster or tank of course they are not going to be able to heal. They simply do not have the mind set.

My two cents worth.

[susiedupfer]

I am a healer and I love to heal and be able to throw spells at the same time. I can main heal I have been one of two healers in a shroud, etc.

It depends on the player and their skills ,equipment and what they like to do.

I find most males just want to hit stuff and brag about how big their swords are and how many people they have killed.

I resent the put down, the druid class is awesome and has become my favorite although I have a tr'd level 24 cleric also.

If the druid is played by a former caster or tank of course they are not going to be able to heal. They simply do not have the mind set.

My two cents worth.

I like to play divines. I like healing. I LR'd my druid into a healer druid AFTER I started hitting 1200 on single target heals. (without devotion, ardor, or lore) She makes a fine raid healer or party healer. NOT solo raid healer. No mass deathward and ridiculous reincarnate cast time pretty much preclude that.

If a FVS evoker/sorc/wiz started playing a druid, you would see an evoker druid. Not a healer one. The presence of certain spells does not determine what role you are to play. If you choose not to heal on your druid, you should not be expected to heal anyone but yourself. I do expect you to heal yourself.

[Postumus]

The Druid on the other hand, I found stale, like a ranger wizard cleric multiclass.

Without the manyshot.

[Drak]

My guess is that after the failure FVS was (ie. being god like) at release. They went the other way with druid and thus made them underpowered so as not to make the same mistake again. Like others I hope they get 'Balanced'

[Juduss]

@ Riexau & Tyrande

Thanx for the feedback/suggestions :) haven't enjoyed the animal forms much yet, and find pretty much live in fire form, guess that's why I didn't see much need to swap forms, except for situational advantages from water. Been considering build options for a second druid to make some good use of the animal forms, thanks for the shifting info to include in my considerations.

[Charononus]

I like to play divines. I like healing. I LR'd my druid into a healer druid AFTER I started hitting 1200 on single target heals. (without devotion, ardor, or lore)

Screen shot or it didn't happen, I play a druid quite a bit and my heals are no where close to that with devotion 90, empower healing, the full devotion line, and superior lore. Well the crits might hit that high but you said you had none of that.

[fco-karatekid]

After six years in the making druids were sure to be a letfown unless they came with grilled bacon.

They are certainly not as innovative as artis were (as druids take some mechanics from artis) but still are fun to play. They are similar in toolboxiness to (again) artis and have some nice stuff going on for them (pet, Body, Easthquake).

Overall nice if not gamechanging.

I think this is what I liked about my dru splash - I didn't LOVE it, but it was just fun to play. My monks and rangers are very good at what they do and have a defined set of strengths. IMHO, the Druid doesn't have a strength, but can adapt within a party to help varying roles.

When everyone was all atwitter about the druids, I wondered what the big deal was... still do.

[Anihsod]

my fire / healer spec'd druid solo's stuff my PM had trouble with. My druid's cc's work as well or better than my bards cc's all the while doing a goodly amount of AE damage. My druid can't heal as easily as my cleric, but my druid FAR out cc's and dps's my cleric.

If you are having problems playing a druid it's because of you and not because of the class.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I think Druids have the distinction of being the only class to be nerfed before they were released. :cool:


Anyway, mine is only lvl 12 so far.

What I think is that they suffer from the same weaknesses as Clerics and FVSs...

They need to max their casting stat... but that doesn't leave enough points to make one that can melee good. (or Range. :( )

This is especially true of Dex... my favorite stat. My high Dex Rgrs get barely a scratch from an elite Kobold Shamen's lightning bolts..... my Druid was....shocked :cool: at the amount of damage I took in the Harbor.

They need casting feats to land spells effectively... and again that leaves no feats left over to make one that can fight with (natural)weapons.

Their buffs are cool.

Their enhancements seem good IMO. Turbine seems to have even given us the option of a Bear Intimitank... (not my style)

They have some good damage spells.... but lack the SP to be an effective nuker.

That lack of SP makes me reluctant to buff an entire party, and to especially attempt to heal an entire party!


Their wep proficencies are ok foe melee, but horrible for ranged.
as cool as a duel Flame Blade looks....I do not have the dex or feats to duel weild them. :(

Animal forms are cool... but the novelty wears off quickly.

Pets did do impressive damage.... (my Wolf was always a contender for the high kill count.) but that got nerfed I think.


Armor is lacking.
They can use medium Armor.... can't make one with high dex.. yet the best armors around light armors.

Dog armor seems lacking too.





But..... I do like them.
I do like their spells.
I like the animal forms and pets.


I just like Rgrs better.

(now, if I could just figure out how to make a displaced Dragon Marked Elf, Arcane Archer Druid that uses duel Flame Blades. and spams Call Lightning. :cool: )

[rnor6084]

A lot of the problem is the class. Turbine's ridiculous extra cooldown while in form + making spells that work only in form = class forcing you to be gimp. Also they added a lot of trap spells to get people to be in form to melee, even though they can't melee worth **** at higher levels without gimping themselves out of casting ability.

Good players can compensate for a bad class and get something out of it if they're will to put up with lots of form switching and gear swapping. The problem is, very few players are any good, or want to jump through the very un-fun hoops required to make the class work. They'd rather turn on autoattack and watch pretty numbers scroll by and pretend they're contributing, when they're not.



A "healing build" is having the heal spell and a potency item and 1 point put into enhancements. If a druid can't do that then they're a waste of a party spot.



So then you won't have a problem with how I play my characters either when I step into the quest and AFK at the entrance while you do the quest for me. That is EXACTLY what your waste of space character is doing. Oh you might enjoy running along pretending to help, but had your waste of space character not been there the quest would get done faster and more easily thanks to dungeon scaling.

If you can't heal a party as a druid, you suck at druid. If you suck at druid, you're not contributing to the party. If you're not contributing to the party, play a single player game or stop gimping up groups with your suckishness.

WOW!!!

Angry much??

Gosh, i guess i should just quit playing since i do not meet your standards your highness. So sorry sir. I cower in fear of your amazing ability to determine that i suck even though you have never grouped with me.

[LawfulGood]

I solo healed a full PUG shroud today on my druid. No deaths during the Harry fights. Had enough SP to dot him during those parts as well, even though someone started the last fight early by killing the last lieutenant before everyone was set. Only one unexpected death, from someone that didn't get Deathward in time before the Kobold's vorpal went snickety-snack on his neck.

I previously solo healed an eight man Epic Hard DQ2, (also with no deaths), and played the healer role on many Eveningstar, Underdark, and Demonweb quests, and have been the second healer in Caught in the Web, all with successful outcomes.

My druid has 2400 SP and has plenty of healing ability when the others in the party play smartly. As an added incentive, I do not have Reincarnate loaded, so no one better die. :)

[Vormaerin]

WOW!!!

Angry much??



Yes. He's like that in every post. Now you know. And knowing is half the battle. ;)

[rnor6084]

Yes. He's like that in every post. Now you know. And knowing is half the battle. ;)


Lol. Indeed.

[Badnade]

Just would like to point out how much brighter and helpful everyones posts are, when held up next to the one, um.. "painful" post.

[2x4]

My Druid is level 22, epic destiny shiradi level 4.

The only problem I found was working out the enhancements. I redid them 3 times before I got it right. They are complex. I thought that they could focus on 3 lines of elements and be effective at end game. I could not figure that out.

I am cold and lightning specked and can do very well as back up healer. My lit strike crit is hitting well over 1,000. My sp pool is 2509 (without buffs) and it will be growing much higher with the new gear in the expansion. I will also have 200% fort with last piece of war wizard set.

My spell power stats are: (main)
Cold 196
Electric 202

I carry/carried dual sticks whole way with exception of the nice staff in 3BC at low level. That staff is excellent.

I am primarily solo play and I am running the expansion content solo without problems. The Druid caster is great. I have also run the new challenges as the only healer. (3 to 4 star runs and only 1 5 star in that set of runs).

I loved my arty and he is parkled at L19 because of how much I am enjoying the Druid. The Druid is an excellent caster and totally viable at end game.

I don't see him as a big party buffer and I don't think he should be. There are enough classes to fill that role. Would be nice if the Druid could master three elements but doesn't need it. Just would be cool to be master of the elements.

I am only starting on my epic destinies and I may find out that the third elemental may become an option through some of the destinies and the twists of fate. Or maybe I can become a much stronger healer through the twists of fate.

But the Druid is excellent and yes it took time to figure out but once I did, he is great.

[jortann]

This thread is full of so much win!

I could give you a wall of text but... let me just sum up.

1. Druids are not gimp. There are some good builds out there. This is mine... http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=385905. I would suggest to many in this thread to roll up this toon and play it to cap, before you post anymore about Druids.

2. The trick to a good druid is balancing your many abilities to make a strong toon. Trying to make a druid a cleric will only leave you frustrated. Trying to make a Druid a wizard will do just the same. However, making a Battle Mage that can self heal is very reasonable.

3. I need a healer?

people still build toons that arne't self sufficient? byoh is the reality. caster/melee fvs/clr, wf arcanes, pm, arits, druids, monks, helf dilli ftr/barbs, sf pots. noone wants to have to heal you and in ddo there really isn't much excuse anymore.
This ^^

4. Versatility. Druids are the most versatile class. We should expect many different builds, because of their many different abilities. I dont think there is any one right way to build a druid. But do try to avoid the pitfalls in #2.


This is getting close to Wall of Textyness, so I will stop.

[HalfOrcBeautyQueen]

I solo healed a full PUG shroud today on my druid. No deaths during the Harry fights. Had enough SP to dot him during those parts as well, even though someone started the last fight early by killing the last lieutenant before everyone was set. Only one unexpected death, from someone that didn't get Deathward in time before the Kobold's vorpal went snickety-snack on his neck.

I previously solo healed an eight man Epic Hard DQ2, (also with no deaths), and played the healer role on many Eveningstar, Underdark, and Demonweb quests, and have been the second healer in Caught in the Web, all with successful outcomes.

My druid has 2400 SP and has plenty of healing ability when the others in the party play smartly. As an added incentive, I do not have Reincarnate loaded, so no one better die. :)


What difficulty of Shroud and what was the level range of the players in the group?





I wanted to like Druids, I really did. I tried. While they were on Llama, I explored just about every build I could think of, and leveled them with the extreme XP there.


I was disappointed with every single one. They don't have a single selling point that makes them stand out compared to any of the other classes beyond the sheer gimmick that is fighting in another shape. And those... are badly animated, feel clumsy as hell, annoying that special form-based attacks must take up spell-slots, and just generally "felt" bad to play.

Then you get to the obnoxious/useless PrEs, and how much they added a nice bitter garnish to the already underwhelming Druid, and I stopped trying to find the Druid love. For me, it is a totally failed implementation of the class, from A to Z. They have the capacity to do a lot of things - but they do all of them markedly worse than any of the other classes and when trying to do a few of them at once they simply cannot keep up.

I don't know if it's just me who is not clicking with the Druids... but judging by how few of them I see running around the game, I wouldn't think so. I've kept my Druid around for now, in the hopes that Turbine is able to improve them over time, ala Pale Master - and make the class into something more then the pile of gimp that is is now. But right now, Druids are a really big pile of gimp.

That sums up my feelings nicely.
While I was leveling up my druid (who has since TR'd because I hated the class) I kept thinking that maybe Druids would be like Monks. Bad at the start but improve over time. One can hope, but as it stands the class just isn't my style. And I don't like it and think it's weak.

[goodspeed]

I never got why druids couldn't be like basically the druids of eq2.

I mean they were pretty much the same, but eq2 druids were split into 2 factions.

Their was the fury (offensive based, usually with spell power, but the offshoot was their heals lacked. They could still heal but it was more aoe direct heals and not that grand.)

Then their was the warden who specialized more in melee and some spell casting but who had the great multiple ticking aoe heals, as well as some direct heals. Now they were like 300 400 hp a tick on the longer cast massive aoe ticking cure, but you scale it down for ddo.

And for the real deal high heals you always wanted a cleric. They sucked for dps, but by god were they THE HEALER.



What i'm getting at is ddo is already customizable for class progression. It really couldn't hurt to amp up the druids heals aoe wise to help out the real raid healers. I mean even the best healers are chuggn pots in raids. Most people can't even fathom playing one. I know after leveling one I sure as hell couldn't.

I think it's time to give clerics a helping hand. It's not some off brand class, we literally need them in a raid. Same version for favored. I mean druids spells kinda...well they sorta suck. They're ok but just ok. So idk, do something with em. All that potential and ya got a mediocre class running around.

[jortann]

What i'm getting at is ddo is already customizable for class progression. It really couldn't hurt to amp up the druids heals aoe wise to help out the real raid healers. I mean even the best healers are chuggn pots in raids. Most people can't even fathom playing one. I know after leveling one I sure as hell couldn't.

I think it's time to give clerics a helping hand. It's not some off brand class, we literally need them in a raid. Same version for favored. I mean druids spells kinda...well they sorta suck. They're ok but just ok. So idk, do something with em. All that potential and ya got a mediocre class running around.

First of all making another 'healing class' is not going to get people to play healer more.

It seams the way the game is moving is to be more self-sufficient. One of the problems is there is basically two games - Raids and Regular Quests. Most regular quests you do not need a healer for or you can just use a hireling. Then you get to raids which are a totally different mechanic. So, most of us have a capped healer that sits there doing nothing until the guild needs a healer for a raid.

As for making druids awesome healers... NO. Its the same arguement for not making them awesome arcane casters or melee DPS. If you did that then it would be the only class anyone would play. If you could melee like a fighter and cast like a wizard and heal like a cleric why would you play anything else.

This has been said already, but it bears repeating.... the strength in Druid is getting melee DPS, arcane casting and healing all working together. When you find that synergy you have a very powerful character. Capable of soling and good in any group.

[FrancisP.Fancypants]

I find most males just want to hit stuff and brag about how big their swords are and how many people they have killed.


Freudian slip or true story?