I'd like to get some opinions on TRing past 3 lives.

[Demonsoulle]

Okay, so I wanted to make my healer Cleric the best at what he does. So I checked out the past life feats to see what would help and this is what I came up with:

Cleric: 4 TR's

3x +1 turn attempts, +2 level of turns so: +3 turn attempts, +6 to level of turns
1 more Tr to get back into Cleric when all is said and done

Barbarian: 3 TR's

3x 10hp so: +30 hp

Sorceror: 3 TR's

3x +1 dc to evocation spells, +20 spell points so: +3 dc to evocation spells, +60 sp


Favored Soul: 3 TR's

3x +1 spell penetration, +20 spell points so: +3 spell penetrations, +60 sp

Druid: 3 TR's

3x +2 to summoned creatures stats(hirelings, companions, whatever) so: +6 to summoned stats




Grand total: 16 True Reincarnations Benefits(that i'm looking for): +120 sp, +30 hp, +6 to hireling stats
+6 to turning levels, +3 to turn attempts




So, is this feasible? or will the xp needed be so high I actually won't be able to finish? Yes, I realize that it's looking like a roughly 2 year character plan.


Be brutal, it's okay, all responses welcome.

[Lonnbeimnech]

1. The xp needed on your 40th tr is the same as on your 2nd
2. Some people absolutly HATE playing through the game for whatever reason, TRing is not for them.
3. If you actually enjoy running through korthos the harbour sharn necro etc etc, then it isn't a grind, you are just playing a game and enjoying yourself.
4. if this is your favorite character, realise you are essentially shelving him for a while, if you enjoy the healer role, you wont be doing much of that during those sorc lives for example.

[Postumus]

I would not bother with barb pl. 30 hps is nothing with epic destinies.

You also forgot wiz pl with +2 to spell pen.

How do you see your final build? CC, healbot, melee, all three?

And why the druid pl? Do you plan on relying on pets and hirelings much? By your third cleric pl you certainly won't need to.

[axel15810]

I agree with prior poster. Go for it only if you really enjoying playing through those lives. If you aren't having fun until 2 years from now when your toon is done, what's the point?

In the end being the best in this game means having the most fun IMO. And yeah I wouldn't bother with barb PL...3 lives for 30 hp is just silly unless you really want to play barb that much.

[ulticleo]

If you've never TR'ed before, I wouldn't recommend to plan that far in the future...

that being said:
30hp? meh
same goes for 60sp
+turns? nice, but still kinda meh for the work involved
+ 3 conj DC (from cleric. you didn't mention) - meh for a cleric, nice for an arcane (web).
+6 stats on summons? triple -quadruple meh

+3 spell pen however. now you're talking.
+3 evoc dc is very nice as well

and you forgot wiz:
+2 spell pen/life and +1 dc's to all schools from purchased feat.

that would bring your grand total to:
3 sorc lives
3 wiz lives
3 fvs lives
at the end of which you just might choose fvs or sorc instead of cleric :P
That gives you +3 evoc dc, +9 spell pen, +120sp, +1 dc in all schools.
for a grand total of 10 lives and 9 TRs. still quite a project.

[axel15810]

If you've never TR'ed before, I wouldn't recommend to plan that far in the future...

that being said:
30hp? meh
same goes for 60sp
+turns? nice, but still kinda meh for the work involved
+ 3 conj DC (from cleric. you didn't mention) - meh for a cleric, nice for an arcane (web).
+6 stats on summons? triple -quadruple meh

+3 spell pen however. now you're talking.
+3 evoc dc is very nice as well

and you forgot wiz:
+2 spell pen/life and +1 dc's to all schools from purchased feat.

that would bring your grand total to:
3 sorc lives
3 wiz lives
3 fvs lives
at the end of which you just might choose fvs instead of cleric :P
for a grand total of 10 lives and 9 TRs. still quite a project.

agreed...do this

[Viisari]

TR first into a wizard and then into a favored soul.

Then after you actually know what's involved, consider again if you truly want to grind around 30 million experience.

If you do go for a lot of TR's, 3x wiz, 3x fvs and maybe 3x sorc will bring you the biggest benefits.

If not, well, then you have a fvs with a wizard past life which is a very good thing to have.

[phillymiket]

If I ever found a static group that did a TR train I might pick a character and go for completionist.

As it is now I think I'll stick to my plan of having 3 well chosen PLs for each character and call it even and work on destiny.

EDs. Quicker, easier, more seductive they are.
.

[AbyssalMage]

If you've never TR'ed before, I wouldn't recommend to plan that far in the future...

that being said:
30hp? meh
same goes for 60sp
+turns? nice, but still kinda meh for the work involved
+ 3 conj DC (from cleric. you didn't mention) - meh for a cleric, nice for an arcane (web).
+6 stats on summons? triple -quadruple meh

+3 spell pen however. now you're talking.
+3 evoc dc is very nice as well

and you forgot wiz:
+2 spell pen/life and +1 dc's to all schools from purchased feat.

that would bring your grand total to:
3 sorc lives
3 wiz lives
3 fvs lives
at the end of which you just might choose fvs or sorc instead of cleric :P
That gives you +3 evoc dc, +9 spell pen, +120sp, +1 dc in all schools.
for a grand total of 10 lives and 9 TRs. still quite a project.
*All of this* plus:
1) Make sure to use a Greater Tome of Learning
2) All +2/+3 Tomes eaten
3) Wiz/Sorc lives should be fairly similar (especially 1-12) so make sure you have the gear you want.
4) There is a TR checklist somewhere on the forums. Take a look at it.
5) If your still ready to do "it", then I wish you the best of luck!!! :)

[teh_meh]

that would bring your grand total to:
3 sorc lives
3 wiz lives
3 fvs lives
at the end of which you just might choose fvs or sorc instead of cleric :P
That gives you +3 evoc dc, +9 spell pen, +120sp, +1 dc in all schools.
for a grand total of 10 lives and 9 TRs. still quite a project.

I've been solo-TR'ing (hard-streaking) non-stop since end of April...as per sig. It's taken me 3.5 months to do the first 8 lives and yes, I have full time work. I am in the home stretch of life #8 now. But there has been a ton of DDO Bonus Days XP going on this summer, which made it much quicker. your results will vary...considerably

Coordinated, static groups can do it much faster. Regardless, it's a huge project and when I finish, I won't be TR'ing again for the foreseeable future. It's a lot of work, but well worth it in my opinion.

[Kinerd]

Epic Destinies are equal or more benefit for dramatically, comically less effort.

As Lonnbeimnech said, if you actually like playing the character in its given role, it is hard to ever justify an extended TR path.

With that said, challenges are scheduled to have their XP tweaked back upwards slightly, which will again somewhat alleviate the pretty brutal 18-20 stretch for third+ lives.

[Enoach]

Good points have been brought up about Epic Destinies are a shorter path to extra power than TR'ing

To cap out an epic destiny takes 80K more XP than a First Lifer.

If you are playing DDO for the Journey and not the destination planning out PL could be a good option. I recommend though breaking them up. and try to put them in an order that can build your character.

Think about how this life's PL ability can benefit the next. Example Turning? Only benefits 2 classes - Cleric/Paladin

However, the Active PL Cleric feat could be used for some cheap/free healing. DC's benefit classes, but review needs to take place. It might be swell that you have +3 to Conjuration, but during a FvS life that helps Commit Fall and your Healing/Inflict spells DC.

[Fafnir]

The xp per minute for ED xp grinding though is much higher. The numbers alone deceive.

I would at least play with EDs before you do your TRs. The power gain is dramatic.

Personally, I did all EDs to level 4 to open up fate points.

[Hellllboy]

If you just want to get to a productive player in end game Epics-I think you could achieve this through levels 21-25. Sure a few past life feats may be useful-depending on what you are trying to build.

If you do not plan on playing it out to completionist, for the majority of players in this classification-you do not need to grind out these 3x per life style of build-Epic levels now give much more.

If you enjoy the TR game and love the grind-you TR many, many, many times because to these players, its not the beginning or the end-but everything in between that they play for.

It all depends on what you want out of this game. :)

[muny21]

In my opinion, I do not think multiple TR lives are required that much anymore. I have a completionist with 3x caster lives and another Sorc that is on his second life. They are pretty much equal in power because of the gear and destinies when it comes to epic hard and below. The only time the past lives are really needed is epic elite.

So I would suggest just maxing out your epic destinies before embarking on such a long and grueling journey of multiple TR lives, which I have retired from. If you do not like the way your toon is preforming in those quest then maybe think about TR'ing, but I truly believe it is not needed anymore. The real power comes from Epic destinies and twists of fate.

[Qhualor]

1. The xp needed on your 40th tr is the same as on your 2nd
2. Some people absolutly HATE playing through the game for whatever reason, TRing is not for them.
3. If you actually enjoy running through korthos the harbour sharn necro etc etc, then it isn't a grind, you are just playing a game and enjoying yourself.
4. if this is your favorite character, realise you are essentially shelving him for a while, if you enjoy the healer role, you wont be doing much of that during those sorc lives for example.

incorrect. a 40th tr would be the same as a 3rd tr.

xp needed for 1st: 1.9 mil
2nd: 3,139,250
3rd: 4,378,500

its a grind, but im on my 4th life and not so bad with all the xp boosts available to us.

[-Zephyr-]

that said, challenges are scheduled to have their XP tweaked back upwards slightly, which will again somewhat alleviate the pretty brutal 18-20 stretch for third+ lives.


Just wanted to comment on that.
18-20 are for me the funniest levels of a TR, and never hard. I usually cap in reaver's refuge, without touching a a single quest of higher level, just to tell you the amount of XP left.

Don't rely on challenges, they are boring and repetitive. There's enough XP and fun to be had in quests. Just plan your leveling correctly. Your 34 pt life with higher XP requirements (even if not yet crazy) should teach you how/where to get good XP.



incorrect. a 40th tr would be the same as a 3rd tr.
xp needed for 1st: 1.9 mil e
2nd: 3,139,250 e
3rd: 4,378,500
its a grind, but im on my 4th life and not so bad with all the xp boosts available to us.

It's just a misanderstanding. 2nd TR is 3rd life, since first life doesn't count as a TR.

[goodspeed]

Idk I don't think i'd want to tr through that much. Maybe if the cycle reset like 1st life then second then 3rd then 4th reset back to the first lifes xp requirement it could be ok.

But hey if you like to grind out those quests 20 times to 100% penelty and keep on going more power to ya lol. Only time I tr is when the build im going for really REALLY warrants it.

And most classes that do that are usually either mage or an advanced class. Especially now that with epic destinies you can mix and match whatever. But still a rogue, or monk, something that relys on alot of stats can always bennifit from an extra 2 4 or 6 points. Especially now with again epics requiring some steep base rates for some of those. Like 21 conbase for epic toughness. 23 str for OC. The wisdom one, all that.

[Qhualor]

Just wanted to comment on that.
18-20 are for me the funniest levels of a TR, and never hard. I usually cap in reaver's refuge, without touching a a single quest of higher level, just to tell you the amount of XP left.

Don't rely on challenges, they are boring and repetitive. There's enough XP and fun to be had in quests. Just plan your leveling correctly. Your 34 pt life with higher XP requirements (even if not yet crazy) should teach you how/where to get good XP.




It's just a misanderstanding. 2nd TR is 3rd life, since first life doesn't count as a TR.

after re-reading it, i see the misunderstanding. i say it differently than some people i guess :)

[DarkForte]

For eHard, if you can spare the 3 spell pen feats, you don't need to TR at all. My wizard with 1 past life can penetrate anything on ehard on a 1 outside magister. Meaning you'll be fine without the PLs. TRing only becomes an issue if you want no-fail spell pen on epic elite drow. If you don't plan on doing that, either you like TRing a lot (in which case, go ahead!), or you're going to get mad at the nearly purposeless grind.

[Demonsoulle]

Wow, alot of responses, and what actually surprised me was none of them were "dude, that's stupid" threads, they were actually promoting multiple TR's. Thank you all for the feedback.


Now to answer some questions:


Yes, I actually like the low level stuff and have 90% of it memorized(hell I'm the only one in my guild that actually likes running The Pit).

To me, it's about the destination AND the road to the destination.

The druid past lives i can see being beneficial because i'll probably have Augment Summoning as well, which boosts all stats by +10 when everything is up to date, I don't think that's bad at all(I have a tendency to solo or 2 or 3 man(with hires for full group) quests.

I've actually considered dropping barb because I do agree that 30 hp is kind of meh.

Keeping Cleric because well, i'm a cleric, and i would like the turning bonuses.

My final build will essentially be a healbot, hence the lives with extra sp, there's never enough sp.

So looking like the same build, just swapping barb out for Wiz(yeah i'm healbot but it's a pain when the FR drow's SR blocks my spells 95% of the time.

What I didn't think of that was pointed out, was the ED xp, never occured to me that that also would be increased.


One question, you guys are saying the 40th TR xp is the same as the 3rd? So, the xp needed only increases up in cycles and doesn't just keep going up and up and up?


Again, thank you for your responses, they have been most helpful.

[Silverleafeon]

Okay, so I wanted to make my healer Cleric the best at what he does...

TRed Fawngate alot because its fun.

Fawnglow my healing cleric is not TRed at all, and she does just fine.
Healing is patience and player skill along with a tiny bit of equipment and a decent dsl connection.


That is not to say this is not a good thing you are doing, but a long time ago, Fawngate my completionist project started down the same path as you...

[Silverleafeon]

One question, you guys are saying the 40th TR xp is the same as the 3rd?yes
So, the xp needed only increases up in cycles and doesn't just keep going up and up and up?
It does not increase after the 3rd life:

Fawngate's 1st life cost around 1.8 million xp.
Fawngate's 2nd life cost around 2.8 million xp.
Fawngate's 3rd life thru 13th life all cost around 4.3 million xp each.

(Its the 1 million xp you need to get from 18 to 20 on your legends lifes you have to look out for. Never ever take level 19, try to wait to enter the vale at rank 86+, and start heavy banking of xp at lvl 16 or before.)

[-Zephyr-]

If you're going to end as a healbot, then yes, "dude, that's stupid".
Druid past lives are terribly useless no matter what. Hirelings still suck even with +10 to their stats or whatever. Unless you really enjoy playing druid, you're wasting your time. After so many lives, you'll be able to SOLO everything that allows hires in, hires will bring nothing but lever-pulling. And they don't need +10 stats for that.

But again, if you're going to end up as a healbot, you're wasting your time anyway.

Most posts were promoting multiple past lives, but also changing your end build. Evoker FvS, offensive Sorc/Wiz, evoker Arty, all are good. You could even do an offensive (evoker !) cleric if you really wanted to be a cleric.
But a healbot... I have nothing against healbots, they are a perfect first-life build to learn the game through a divine's eyes. But as soon as you start considering TRs, do something else.

[Demaril]

id recomend doing 1 barabrian life but no more, the active feat is nice for tring at low lvls it gives you +20 hp (so at lvl 20 its a net loss of 2hp) and counts as toughness so you take it instead of toughness for your other TR lives (do it as an early one)

[Persiflage]

If you're going to end as a healbot, then yes, "dude, that's stupid".
Druid past lives are terribly useless no matter what. Hirelings still suck even with +10 to their stats or whatever. Unless you really enjoy playing druid, you're wasting your time. After so many lives, you'll be able to SOLO everything that allows hires in, hires will bring nothing but lever-pulling. And they don't need +10 stats for that.

But again, if you're going to end up as a healbot, you're wasting your time anyway.

Most posts were promoting multiple past lives, but also changing your end build. Evoker FvS, offensive Sorc/Wiz, evoker Arty, all are good. You could even do an offensive (evoker !) cleric if you really wanted to be a cleric.
But a healbot... I have nothing against healbots, they are a perfect first-life build to learn the game through a divine's eyes. But as soon as you start considering TRs, do something else.

What he said! If you're dedicating a toon to healing, you really really REALLY don't want to plan a bucketload of TR lives. Even with the current Epic Destinies not really catering for healer clerics, they're going to give you so much more than the past lives will. A good melee heal-from-the-front-lines cleric could benefit from a past life or two, an offensive caster cleric even more so, but a straight healer? No. I'd recommend doing the same thing I am: using your cleric first life to take the opportunites afforded by Epic Norm and Hard to try and become a really good healer - which is far, far more about skill than build points - while learning which cleric style suits you best. When you've settled on it, maybe plan some TR lives around your concept... but if at the end of a good long stretch of practice and a full slate of decent gear you still just want to play your cleric as a healer, then chances are you'll already be a superlative one :)

I know I have a long, long way to go in learning how to play an effective cleric, long before it would be worthwhile grinding out a bunch of past lives. The build I have (and the race I have, in particular) may not be what I'd have chosen with hindsight, but I realise that the majority of any lack in the character is down to how I play it, not whether I've got an extra +2 to spell pen or a few more spell points.

If you're going to go ahead anyway, I'd invite you to consider another approach (I know some may disagree with me here, but I think it's a point worth thinking about) which is to keep your current first-life cleric and start a different toon for the grinding. One first life won't make much of a different to the length of time it takes you to create your multi-TR, but it has the outstanding benefit that you'll still have a capped healer throughout the whole process. The value of that can't be overstated; you can keep questing and raiding for gear and materials whenever you get bored of the lowbie levelling, you'll still be able to participate when your friends run high-level quests that need flagging (multi-TR's mid-project are almost never flagged for anything you care about unless the end quest is high-XP because they don't want to spend the time) and - perhaps more importantly - you'll be able to go back and remind yourself just what you're doing it all for when you're facing the final-levels million-XP hurdle for the nth time!

It's just an idea. Remember, TR's do add to a character, no question, but the life that gives the most benefit on any toon is the first one!

[Cinos]

I personally think two past lives are worth it so you get the maximum amount of stat points, but beyond that it's very diminishing returns.

[chak]

I am with you .I too actually enjoy most of the low level stuff.
Heck when i started the low level quests were the endgame lol.
Besides when you finish with your project you will be able to breeze any character you make after to 20 with ease.

Its a learning experiance and knowladge is power.

[mwgarn]

For a heal bot I too would do two past lives and that's it to open up 36 point builds..
For an evocation base/ implosion or slay living I would do 3 wiz, 3 sorc, last cleric.. And maybe if you are not completely itching to get back to your final build toss 3 fvs in there as well..

I took an easier route for me I stopped after 3 wiz lives and took my fourth life as wiz.. I might be better off if i stacked fvs lives sorc lives bard lives and cleric lives.. But after doing three lives I was ready to stop and play my "final" build already...

I might have been better off mixing the lives up, I would sudgest tring that.. Do a wiz life, then a sorc life so you don't get tired of doing the same thing every time..

[WestiesMA]

My main is a much-TR'd cleric. I have 3 cleric PL's, 2 sorcerer PL's (for mana), 1 wizard PL (for spell DC), and one Favored Soul PL (mostly for mana). My current and supposedly final PL is cleric, and I am currently Level 25 with maxed ED.

If I could do it again, I would add another Wizard PL and Favored Soul PL, ditch the cleric PL's and probably end as a Favored Soul and not a cleric for the additional mana and offensive power. I can turn stuff in Epic, but turning and spell swapping is not a good reason to be a cleric over a FS.

[Silverleafeon]

If you're going to go ahead anyway, I'd invite you to consider another approach (I know some may disagree with me here, but I think it's a point worth thinking about) which is to keep your current first-life cleric and start a different toon for the grinding.Something to ponder upon. At one time, I has a favored soul and a cleric for healing raids. You will learn and find yourselve in great demand.

The favored soul eventually was lesser hearted multiple times into a crazy haggle 85ish build, hence retiring. I don't log her in atm, to reduce renown decay in the MAC guild as she is still an officer there.

Anytime I want to heal, Fawnglow will have plenty of demand in forgotten realms. She too is vacationing atm due to Fawngate being on her 14th life. Her first two lives are favored soul. Her third is wizard. After that she decided to go towards completionist starting with Monk. Eventually she wished she had not done two favored soul lives so early on.

What is the power in completionist?
Kinda the same as past lives.
Its the fun of getting there more than what you gain.

If you really enjoy healing, playing thru the various divine classes with a toon is fun.
If you aint have fun, ask yourself why and change accordingly.

But having a high level toon stay at the top to do epics and raids is important.

[Silverleafeon]

I might have been better off mixing the lives up, I would sudgest tring that.. Do a wiz life, then a sorc life so you don't get tired of doing the same thing every time..

This is sooooo important for you sanity.
The more different a life is from the one right before it, the more you will enjoy it.

[Chaotiq]

I would do one sorc and one wiz life (or maybe a barb life) then TR back into a cleric so you have the legend status so that everyone knows that ur a pro ;)

[Kinerd]

Just wanted to comment on that.
18-20 are for me the funniest levels of a TR, and never hard. I usually cap in reaver's refuge, without touching a a single quest of higher level, just to tell you the amount of XP left.

Don't rely on challenges, they are boring and repetitive. There's enough XP and fun to be had in quests. Just plan your leveling correctly. Your 34 pt life with higher XP requirements (even if not yet crazy) should teach you how/where to get good XP.If you are claiming that you can cap in Reaver's Refuge without "boring and repetitive" questing, I must confess that I am dubious, "plan" and "teach" or no.
What I didn't think of that was pointed out, was the ED xp, never occured to me that that also would be increased.I'm not sure what you mean by this, but ED xp is the same for a 40th life as it is for a 1st life. 1.98m to cap one.

To expound on my earlier point: everyone's favorite past life is Wizard: +1 to all DCs active, up to +6 spell pen... but for at least 9.7m xp. You could instead get +3 DC to the only school you care about and +8 spell pen for 1.98m xp via the Magister prestige, and as mentioned it's much easier to get epic XP than heroic... and that's everyone's favorite past life! Look at a barb past life's measly 10 HP for as much as 4 million experience when you could get 50 HP for 36 thousand experience in the Unyielding Sentinel ED. 5 times the benefit for one hundredth the cost!

[THOTHdha]

So looking like the same build, just swapping barb out for Wiz(yeah i'm healbot but it's a pain when the FR drow's SR blocks my spells 95% of the time.

I think that this will be a very good idea. A wizard PL is probably the most useful one for a caster, and 3xWiz + 3xFvS really helps out a great deal in Epic Elites. 3xSorc can be replaced with twisting in the extra DC from Magister and DI, but since it sounds like you enjoy the low-mid game doing these will free those Twists up for other options!


What I didn't think of that was pointed out, was the ED xp, never occured to me that that also would be increased.

One question, you guys are saying the 40th TR xp is the same as the 3rd? So, the xp needed only increases up in cycles and doesn't just keep going up and up and up?

Others have mentioned before that the XP required stops increasing after your second TR, or third life. And the Epic XP is totally separate from your Heroic XP, so it will not be effected at all.

What I did not see anyone mention, and I am sorry if I just missed it, was that your Epic Destiny progress carries over from life to life. So if you wanted to make things easier on yourself, when you hit 20 each time you could run some of the fun and rewarding Epic quests for the first time or easily farmable XP before TRing again, and that progress will be back when you hit 20 again. Along with a fresh slate for the quests.

Repetition penalties from running dungeons on Heroic count against Epic runs. Taking this into mind you might want to not run any of the heroic versions of epic quests on you final life. That way they will all be fresh when you hit 20. Also, if you only run them once or twice before you cap at 25 then they will be locked in with no repetition penalty for leveling future Destinies.