Ranged char.. which one? art? ranger? monkcher?

[alemulet]

Hello all, as the tittle says im thinking about play a ranged char... after 5 lifes with a caster im a bit bored with them... so i will start other char, so no pls, 32pts, all classes all races available. But i rly dunno which class/split to take.
The char need it: good solo (i play almost 80% of time soloing), decent to great dps, tomes and gear i can farm whatever i dont have already.

thx in advance

[wax_on_wax_off]

Pure Artificer is definitely the way to go I'd say, they really shine straight out of the gate and are amazing at soloing.

Archers take a bit more work but are very rewarding. I wouldn't roll an archer if it didn't have the 10k stars enhancement from 6 monk.

[alemulet]

makes sense.. hard to give up Blade Barrier, self suficiency without pain, decent at least ranged dmg, rune arms (solid dps without sp), great dmg burst with engineer... no brain rly... so other ranged is simple dead?

[karl_k0ch]

makes sense.. hard to give up Blade Barrier, self suficiency without pain, decent at least ranged dmg, rune arms (solid dps without sp), great dmg burst with engineer... no brain rly... so other ranged is simple dead?

No, not at all. 10k Stars archers make arrows more viable than ever.

[MaxwellEdison]

I like my 12/6/2 mnk/rgr/ftr Monkcher quite a bit. I also like my 20 pure WF Arty. I think I am favoring my AA right now though because he started with the Shiradi ED And my Arty has yet to make it over there. If each had Shiradi ED, I'd probably use the Arty more, And, it is an easier class to build/level/gear.

So I vote pure WF Arty.

[JasonJi72]

It all depends on how much of a 'break' you want to have from playing a caster. Artificers are still very much a caster.

[MaxwellEdison]

It all depends on how much of a 'break' you want to have from playing a caster. Artificers are still very much a caster.

Buffing your crossbow and chucking up a blade barrier while firing off your runearm is not reminiscent of a sorc or wizard at all. The only thing my Arty reminds me of when I'm blasting away in the zone is Metal Slug.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NClYi7e8j48

[Failedlegend]

I'd say the best two would be Monkchersai and Single-Class Arty depending on your patience and end game needs

The Monkchersai (12Monk/7Fighter/1Arty or Rogue) is a great build but doesn't really get good until 9 or 10 than great around 15ish and by than will be very versatile and quite potent in end-game

The Arty is far more consistent in its power overall but does fall a bit short in end-game (not as much as people claim though) but like a Bard will pretty much be welcome in a group as long as you keep the buffs up...although both Fatesinger and Shiradi Champion give it some great stuff (I prefer FS)


Note that I'm talking pure ranged not melee characters that abuse Manyshot

[alemulet]

i was talking with a guild mate about it today, he has a art lvl 20, and we ended with same conclusion, why fatesinger for an artificer?.. why classify artificer as a caster and give the arcane tree? BB is a divine spell not arcane.. that rly doesnt make sense...

any good 12monk/7ranger/1X build as a start? i must supose thats the highest dmg with 12 monk, but 11 ranger could give more freedom with stats since a lot of ranged/melee feats are given for "free".. am i wrong? i would like to be rly good at ranged dmg, but not gimp in melee, at least dish some average dmg.. possible?

[alemulet]

The Arty is far more consistent in its power overall but does fall a bit short in end-game (not as much as people claim though) but like a Bard will pretty much be welcome in a group as long as you keep the buffs up...although both Fatesinger and Shiradi Champion give it some great stuff (I prefer FS)

that the same thought i have.. in epic lvls i dont see the same "power" an arty shows in heroic lvls... maybe cuz "no sense" epic destinies?

[Lonnbeimnech]

12 ranger 6 monk 2 fighter means giving up ure serious wounds.
12 monk 6 ranger 2 fighter means giving up cure moderate as well.

Everyone is going to tell you the monkcher rocks becouse of the higher dps, and its true, but if you are going for a soloist, being able to heal yourself might be important.

Just food for thought.

[MaxwellEdison]

12 ranger 6 monk 2 fighter means giving up ure serious wounds.
12 monk 6 ranger 2 fighter means giving up cure moderate as well.

Everyone is going to tell you the monkcher rocks becouse of the higher dps, and its true, but if you are going for a soloist, being able to heal yourself might be important.

Just food for thought.
Luckily you can still use pots and wands, get cleric dilly with a helf, take arty over fighter for UMD or any other of a myriad of ways to self heal that don't use your blue bar.

[cyadra]

12 ranger 6 monk 2 fighter means giving up ure serious wounds.
12 monk 6 ranger 2 fighter means giving up cure moderate as well.

Everyone is going to tell you the monkcher rocks becouse of the higher dps, and its true, but if you are going for a soloist, being able to heal yourself might be important.

Just food for thought.

If you are just going to solo. I would go 13 FvS/6 monk/1 fighter.

You get BB, you get all the FvS heals, if you design it like an evoker all the Wis bonuses will stack, whereas the arti will not. Make it a half elf with ranger dil and not worry about bow strength.

[krackythehoodedone]

Few good builds mentioned. Monkcher types with 10k stars are good.

Arti is fine. Dont knock the traditional 20th AA Ranger

Helves Angel are ok to.

However the success of a ranged toon is all about how you play it. Played well you will be worth your spot in any group. Badly and you will become a liability. Great gear helps but the grind for E Thorn is awful.

If you want to wait a little while you might like to see what comes up in the enhancement pass.

Their could be some nice little twists for ranged characters in their

[Lonnbeimnech]

Luckily you can still use pots and wands, get cleric dilly with a helf, take arty over fighter for UMD or any other of a myriad of ways to self heal that don't use your blue bar.

Sure there are ways, but those 2 seem to be the standard monk archer builds that I've seen.

Taking arty instead of fighter means no fighter haste boost, cleric dilly means no rogue dilly so no sneak damage.

There is going to be some sacrifice in your dps somewhere if you want to self heal.

[alemulet]

thx for all the replies.
about fvs thing i already have 2, both lvl 20, 1 evoker other melee... i dont wanna another =)
12monk/6rgr/2x or 12monk/7ranger/1x seens the better option, im planning to use 1/2elf, with cleirc dill to lvl and changing to rogue at lvl 20... how would be the lvl progression?stats?

[Failedlegend]

Luckily you can still use pots and wands, get cleric dilly with a helf, take arty over fighter for UMD or any other of a myriad of ways to self heal that don't use your blue bar.

This is why I think H-Elf Monk12/Fighter6/Arty or Rogue 1 is best....you can start with Cleric Dilly until your UMD (from Arty or Rogue...Arty is better IMO) is high enough to matter than swap to watever Dilly you prefer (Barb or Rogue are good candidates...paladin is ok if you have a decent charisma) and if you don't plan on meleeing alot of ranger feats are pointless so your better of ith fighter since you can also get a tier 1 PrE worked in (since AA blocks out ranger PrEs)

Note that ranged builds are FAR more relaint on skill than other builds making it so a badly played ranged build causing far more of an impact that a badly played say Great-axe wielding Barbarian and unfortunately the other side isn't true a superbly played ranged build will only make you on par with a decently played melee build...but IMO its worth it.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Yes. :cool:

[voodoogroves]

The real deal is that bow-focused builds may be tempted to (and more effective at times) drifting into melee. My moncher sometimes just melees through the epic quests with the massive stunning fist DC and I don't bother switching back to the bow. Ranged arties tend to range nearly all the time, and they are quite capable of doing so.

[wax_on_wax_off]

In my sig you can find a number of 10k stars builds and a 12 page discussion on everything 10k stars.

11 ranger/6 monk/3 artificer isn't a bad split but I'm drifting away from recommending it at end game as it doesn't qualify for Combat Archery unless you give up one of the main advantages that you have. I ended up going 7 ranger (for the past life)/6 monk/7 artificer which works really nicely (detailed explanation in that thread).

12 monk/6 ranger/2 artificer is an excellent split as you can stick with rogue dilettante the whole time and transition from cure serious wands (free with ranger) to heal scrolls (boosted by 30%, +1 caster level and full ranks in UMD +2).

12 monk/6 ranger/2 fighter is a good split to aim for but I wouldnt try it until you can no fail heal scrolls as an archer needs to be versatile enough to heal itself and others if need be due to inherent deficiencies.

12 monk/6 fighter/2 ranger is an interesting new split that is possible with a Past Life: Arcane Prodigy, probably prefer the 6 ranger split though for Rams Might and 2 FEs.

[ZeebaNeighba]

If you are just going to solo. I would go 13 FvS/6 monk/1 fighter.

You get BB, you get all the FvS heals, if you design it like an evoker all the Wis bonuses will stack, whereas the arti will not. Make it a half elf with ranger dil and not worry about bow strength.I actually have some fun with an AA favored soul build...I'm a lot more fvs (17 fvs/2rgr/1wiz) but I would just say something a little nitpicky...1 wizard level can remove the mental toughness prereq from arcane archer as well as give the wizard bonus feat, so it's effectively 2 feats for its level rather than 1 feat from fighter. And favored soul archer is pretty fun :) maybe it loses out on damage compared to other archer builds but if you're not too sick of spellcasting, they can make up for it pretty well.

[wax_on_wax_off]

I actually have some fun with an AA favored soul build...I'm a lot more fvs (17 fvs/2rgr/1wiz) but I would just say something a little nitpicky...1 wizard level can remove the mental toughness prereq from arcane archer as well as give the wizard bonus feat, so it's effectively 2 feats for its level rather than 1 feat from fighter. And favored soul archer is pretty fun :) maybe it loses out on damage compared to other archer builds but if you're not too sick of spellcasting, they can make up for it pretty well.

Done it, won't do it again, wouldn't recommend it.

13 cleric/6 monk/1 wizard is a proper archer and can heal to boot with 3 mass cures, heal scroll/spell, burst/aura and healing spring.

[ZeebaNeighba]

Done it, won't do it again, wouldn't recommend it.

13 cleric/6 monk/1 wizard is a proper archer and can heal to boot with 3 mass cures, heal scroll/spell, burst/aura and healing spring.Oh yeah and I forgot that the 1 wizard is actually not as useful on a half elf favored soul...no elven arcanum, and you can't take the wizard class SP enhancement either since you can't take it at the same time as the favored soul SP line, and you need that for AoV. But it still works with cleric and pure elf favored souls. I've never bought monk so I don't know what 10k stars is like...I'm not completely sure how different that build is from mine then.

[countfitz]

I vote 4 arti.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Oh yeah and I forgot that the 1 wizard is actually not as useful on a half elf favored soul...no elven arcanum, and you can't take the wizard class SP enhancement either since you can't take it at the same time as the favored soul SP line, and you need that for AoV. But it still works with cleric and pure elf favored souls. I've never bought monk so I don't know what 10k stars is like...I'm not completely sure how different that build is from mine then.

Monk completely changes the experience. If you're attack continuously 10k stars will be about +50% overall DPS.

[Taters214]

I actually have some fun with an AA favored soul build...I'm a lot more fvs (17 fvs/2rgr/1wiz) but I would just say something a little nitpicky...1 wizard level can remove the mental toughness prereq from arcane archer as well as give the wizard bonus feat, so it's effectively 2 feats for its level rather than 1 feat from fighter. And favored soul archer is pretty fun :) maybe it loses out on damage compared to other archer builds but if you're not too sick of spellcasting, they can make up for it pretty well.

I think this would probably lose out on dps for sure over ranger/monk paths. I bet this would end up being a mediocre archer and mediocre heals. And the latter is important, because anyone stepping into a group with that much FvS will be expected to heal primarily, and dps second. Many feat slots would be spent trying to get AA-related feats that rangers get for free, or that monks can get with all the bonus feats, which means few slots left for healing-related feats. Of course, if you're primarily soloing, this could work well perhaps. When grouping, I've my doubts, unless one only runs with guildies or whatnot. I'm not trying to be too pessimistic, just realistic, I guess. :)

[daniel7]

Hello all, as the tittle says im thinking about play a ranged char... after 5 lifes with a caster im a bit bored with them... so i will start other char, so no pls, 32pts, all classes all races available. But i rly dunno which class/split to take.
The char need it: good solo (i play almost 80% of time soloing), decent to great dps, tomes and gear i can farm whatever i dont have already.

thx in advance

18 Ranger/ 2 X.
I have two main reasons for suggesting this:
1. You like to solo. Any build that has cure serious, maximize, and healing amp has good survibility.
2. You seem to like TRing. The ranger past life feat is great for ranged combat.

Lots of 18rgr/X builds out there, here is what I am doing next time:

Human 18ranger/1fighter/1monk
Feats (not in order, includes human, fighter, and monk bonus feats)
1. Mental toughness
2. Point blank shot
3. Weapons focus ranged
4. Improved critical ranged
5. Khopesh
6. Improved Critical slashing
7. Cleave
8. Greater Cleave
9. Maximize
10. Toughness

Epic Feats
1. Overwhelming Critical
2. ?

Explanation
Melee and ranged fighter that can self heal via healing amp and maximized cure serious. The monk level is mostly for using handwraps against undead and oozes, alternatively another level of fighter could be taken for Human Adaptability STR I and Human damage boost.

[ZeebaNeighba]

I think this would probably lose out on dps for sure over ranger/monk paths. I bet this would end up being a mediocre archer and mediocre heals. And the latter is important, because anyone stepping into a group with that much FvS will be expected to heal primarily, and dps second. Many feat slots would be spent trying to get AA-related feats that rangers get for free, or that monks can get with all the bonus feats, which means few slots left for healing-related feats. Of course, if you're primarily soloing, this could work well perhaps. When grouping, I've my doubts, unless one only runs with guildies or whatnot. I'm not trying to be too pessimistic, just realistic, I guess. :)Yeah I probably only see better damage from my favored soul compared to my other archers because my fvs has by far the best gear...my favored soul is just the most fun to play for me. I've seen other people's archers do way better dps (particularly ones with 6+ monk, I've outdps'd countless pure rangers and stuff especially with blade barrier and divine punishment as appropriate). I have about 3 feats to spare after taking all the archery ones, I have toughness and Empower (as the AoV prereq) and then one more that can be whatever you feel like. But really, the only thing I can use to convince you realistically is that shoulder cannon+ shiradi is awesome and ridiculous :p So don't take it too seriously...build what you want.