DDO is fun as a non-grind MMO

[Xezrak]

DDO without a grind you say?

What I am referring is the experience when you first play through the quests, maybe on an easier difficulty without following a guide. When I ran through the MoTU expansion pack, exploring kings forest and doing the quests, then moving to the underdark, Sschindylryn and the demon web, not knowing where anything is or what to expect, travelling through the scenery it was really exciting, and what’s great was that on the given difficulty (normal) it wasn't so hard that I had to find a party, I could spend my time reading the dialogue without worrying about holding others back, I could appreciate and enjoy the scenery and sniff flowers. The devs have put a lot of time and effort into the scenery, ambiance and the music which made it much more enjoyable experience.

I know there are many bugs and from a power player point of view the expansion pack wasn't all that great but from a more casual player point of view the expansion pack is fantastic.

I remember once upon a time DDO was advertised as the MMO without the grind, when I first played it before TR existed and BB etc, it really was like that, you could join parties and more experienced players took pride in teaching players the ropes rather than worrying about the 10% xp loss which would make leveling their 2nd TR characters even more painful. Run quests were a much less stressful experience.

Without the emphasis on grind there would be more fun trying out silly builds that weren't min maxed but are just plain fun. I mean a build focused on summons, eg. a necromancer who used his/her undead summons would be fun, on normal difficulty this would work but of course these days bosses have far too much hp and groups are more often then not reluctant to run lower difficulty levels.

What am I getting to with all this? I know I will get a few neg reps and a lot of players especially those on the forum will not agree with or like what I have to say, but playing DDO in a different way to grinding and min/maxing can actually be fun. I spent $80 on the expansion pack for the collectors edition, there are lots of bugs and I am sad about that, my wizards got nerfed and I am sad about that, but I don't regret spending the money because the new areas and quests were still very fun.

For casual players when the quests get too hard you do stop playing, but you rarely come and voice your opinion on the forums, that being said casual players still do spend money on the game as long as they are enjoying it, I know I certainly do and will continue to do if quests packs are fun and exciting (with attention to detail in terms of scenery , lore and music) as the MoTU pack. Really want to emphasise the musical scores throughout the pack and the scenery particularly in Sschindylryn is extremely well done.

Also I like that fact the quests don't take excessively long to complete, I don't have a lot of time to play really long quests so its nice that you can finish them in a reasonable amount of time. That being said long quests are exciting too but I think they way they should be made is you enter the second quest through the first, basically chain quests. That way you can still access quests even if you can only play 1/2 hour at a time.

All in all, loving the Xpack! Love the ability to run through it without the grind (couldn't say the same about amrath, sub or house C).

[fco-karatekid]

I am on lvl 16 of the first character I've ever TR'ed in the almost three years I've been playing.

With a few exceptions (where I've actually LIKED the quests I was repeating), I've not ground any quests due to the open on hard skill level capability of this second life and the bravery bonus.

You'd THINK the added XP requirement on Life 2 would make me hate it, but...

I gotta say my enjoyment level has been MUCH higher leveling this character - It is MUCH more fun to run the varied content once or twice vs. 800 times.

[Jsbeer]

I am on lvl 16 of the first character I've ever TR'ed in the almost three years I've been playing.

With a few exceptions (where I've actually LIKED the quests I was repeating), I've not ground any quests due to the open on hard skill level capability of this second life and the bravery bonus.

You'd THINK the added XP requirement on Life 2 would make me hate it, but...

I gotta say my enjoyment level has been MUCH higher leveling this character - It is MUCH more fun to run the varied content once or twice vs. 800 times.

I find a second life TR1 to be quite fun as I bother to get them reasonable equipment. The BIG issue with TRing is the 18-20 levels on a third or higher TR2+ lives, where grinding is hard to avoid........

[FranOhmsford]

Without the emphasis on grind there would be more fun trying out silly builds that weren't min maxed but are just plain fun. I mean a build focused on summons, eg. a necromancer who used his/her undead summons would be fun, on normal difficulty this would work but of course these days bosses have far too much hp and groups are more often then not reluctant to run lower difficulty levels.


Gotta answer this paragraph.

Necro Summons are fantastic between Lvl 12 and Lvl 18!

Yes they drop away in usefulness at cap {And now in Epic possibly}.

But yet again we're talking about cap - Remember the rest of the game please Devs.

As for Necro Summons - PMs just need to get some bonus to them at Tier 3 to make it worth keeping them instead of respeccing.

[Xezrak]

Gotta answer this paragraph.

Necro Summons are fantastic between Lvl 12 and Lvl 18!

Yes they drop away in usefulness at cap {And now in Epic possibly}.

But yet again we're talking about cap - Remember the rest of the game please Devs.

As for Necro Summons - PMs just need to get some bonus to them at Tier 3 to make it worth keeping them instead of respeccing.

Thanks, good point :)

[Gremmlynn]

This game is fantastic for playing in a non-grind fashion. Grinding is really only necessary if one is trying to dominate the game, rather than simply experience it.

[My2Cents]

I just wanted to take a moment to agree with you and echo your thoughts.

The expansion has given my pally new life and new enjoyment.

I have to grab DDO time when I can and the shorter quests are helpful.

I use an old PC with music turned down, but the new scenery still looks great and I am thankful I can still use this PC (unlike other major PC games.)

I think of myself as a "serious casual" gamer, and I run most quests on normal. I do wish the drop rates were a little higher on normal! I generally don't TR (no time even if I wanted to) and I pay very little attention to bravery streaks except at low levels.

All in all I'm very satisfied with MOTU. The majority of the bugs don't impact me directly or I can live with them until they're fixed.


DDO without a grind you say?

What I am referring is the experience when you first play through the quests, maybe on an easier difficulty without following a guide. When I ran through the MoTU expansion pack, exploring kings forest and doing the quests, then moving to the underdark, Sschindylryn and the demon web, not knowing where anything is or what to expect, travelling through the scenery it was really exciting, and what’s great was that on the given difficulty (normal) it wasn't so hard that I had to find a party, I could spend my time reading the dialogue without worrying about holding others back, I could appreciate and enjoy the scenery and sniff flowers. The devs have put a lot of time and effort into the scenery, ambiance and the music which made it much more enjoyable experience.

I know there are many bugs and from a power player point of view the expansion pack wasn't all that great but from a more casual player point of view the expansion pack is fantastic.

I remember once upon a time DDO was advertised as the MMO without the grind, when I first played it before TR existed and BB etc, it really was like that, you could join parties and more experienced players took pride in teaching players the ropes rather than worrying about the 10% xp loss which would make leveling their 2nd TR characters even more painful. Run quests were a much less stressful experience.

Without the emphasis on grind there would be more fun trying out silly builds that weren't min maxed but are just plain fun. I mean a build focused on summons, eg. a necromancer who used his/her undead summons would be fun, on normal difficulty this would work but of course these days bosses have far too much hp and groups are more often then not reluctant to run lower difficulty levels.

What am I getting to with all this? I know I will get a few neg reps and a lot of players especially those on the forum will not agree with or like what I have to say, but playing DDO in a different way to grinding and min/maxing can actually be fun. I spent $80 on the expansion pack for the collectors edition, there are lots of bugs and I am sad about that, my wizards got nerfed and I am sad about that, but I don't regret spending the money because the new areas and quests were still very fun.

For casual players when the quests get too hard you do stop playing, but you rarely come and voice your opinion on the forums, that being said casual players still do spend money on the game as long as they are enjoying it, I know I certainly do and will continue to do if quests packs are fun and exciting (with attention to detail in terms of scenery , lore and music) as the MoTU pack. Really want to emphasise the musical scores throughout the pack and the scenery particularly in Sschindylryn is extremely well done.

Also I like that fact the quests don't take excessively long to complete, I don't have a lot of time to play really long quests so its nice that you can finish them in a reasonable amount of time. That being said long quests are exciting too but I think they way they should be made is you enter the second quest through the first, basically chain quests. That way you can still access quests even if you can only play 1/2 hour at a time.

All in all, loving the Xpack! Love the ability to run through it without the grind (couldn't say the same about amrath, sub or house C).

[GeneralDiomedes]

I agree, you only have to grind if you want to. This is how I play now BTW .. I'm happy to 'grind' out TRs by just playing the game without too much quest repetition.

[Cordovan]

Thank you, Xezrak, for your feedback!

[Bogenbroom]

I just wanted to take a moment to agree with you and echo your thoughts.

The expansion has given my pally new life and new enjoyment.

I have to grab DDO time when I can and the shorter quests are helpful.


I, too, have very much been enjoying the expansion, and I have barely scratched the surface of it. The first thing I have found myself doing is playing a number of guys I haven't actually used in a year +. I've played through the first quest cycle in Eveningstar on about 15 guys. I still have 4-5 lvl 20s to go, but i have found myself enjoying some of the guys that I have had functionally shelved for a long time.

I *LOVE* that there are shorter quests (variety = good.) My only knock has been travel time to some of the quests matches the time to run the quest, even after first run. I don't mind travel times to reach a quest the first time around, but repeatedly doing it does wear on me.

As stupid as it sounds, I find *my* problem since the pack as been that I have too much to do. It is a side effect of having *way* too many guys and an obsessive need to build them. And a new class means three more guys and two more TRs to work on. Sigh, time to update the sig I guess...

[Thrudh]

I love the fact that I can mostly keep up with the big boys even though they play 5x more than I do.

In that respect, DDO is a great success... There is always SOME grind involved, to get a few good items... But you don't need the absolutely best items to do well.

I especially love that I can buy many good items off the Auction House. Grinding for plat isn't a grind to me, because you can play any quest and slowly accumulate plat. Grinding for a particular item sucks to me because you have to run the same quest over and over and over.

So instead, I just play, have fun, and buy most of the good stuff I want off the AH.

I do run raids for a few select items, but not obsessively... just whenever I can, and the completions slowly pile up. Meanwhile I can use an almost as good item and my character can still hold his own in almost all groups.

[GlassJaw]

+1 to this thread!

Sums up my thoughts fairly accurately. I took a 2+ year hiatus (left after GH and came back a few months ago) and I'm loving all the "new to me" content. The Assault on Stormreach and Sentinels series have become some of my favorite chains in the game (although I soloed Spies in the House last night - ugh!). There's also a lot of high-level content I haven't even seen yet.

I do pug/group but lately I've been soloing more so I can take my time and really experience the quests. As mentioned already, when you get to the higher levels after TRing, then you really have to start the grind, at least slightly more so.

[GlassJaw]

Necro Summons are fantastic between Lvl 12 and Lvl 18!

Yes they drop away in usefulness at cap {And now in Epic possibly}.

But yet again we're talking about cap - Remember the rest of the game please Devs.

As for Necro Summons - PMs just need to get some bonus to them at Tier 3 to make it worth keeping them instead of respeccing.

Totally agree. Summons (and the Aug Summoning feat) tend to get poo-pooed on the forums but that's because people immediately use end-game EE as the baseline. On my wizard's FL, I went PM and took all the summons + Aug Summoning and it was a blast! With a hireling, PM summon, and Create Undead, you can have a small army!

My favorite group was the Skeletal Knight (awesome tank), Mummy Lord (fear paralysis FTW), and a WF melee hireling (Kern was pretty solid). A divine with Blade Barrier or DV is also nice.

[Magnyr_Delorn]

As for Necro Summons - PMs just need to get some bonus to them at Tier 3 to make it worth keeping them instead of respeccing.

That, and I'd REALLY like to see Summon Greater Undead as a 8th or 9th level spell.

[nibel]

As for Necro Summons - PMs just need to get some bonus to them at Tier 3 to make it worth keeping them instead of respeccing.

This might become possible with the enhancement revamp, but what I really want is for the PM skeleton to be buildt like artificer's iron defender, or druid's wolf companion. You get the Pale Master I enhancement, and get a summon skeleton clickie with CR equal your wizard level. Then, you can train your skeleton to be more resilient (knight, HP, AC, PRR, melee damage), agile (archer, evasion, DR breaking arrows, higher rate of fire), or caster (arcane, elemental damage, self-healing aura).

[Ew_vastano]

i have to say i loved the xpack, thought turbine had done the best job in all the time i have been playing

was praising the devs and the work they had done even with the bugs

Then i ran caught in the Web what a stupidly lousey excuse for a "pinnicle end game raid" completely ruined the whole motu expansion for me

the elation and pleasure i found in the new content blah just another cra**y grind and not even an enjoyable one without anything decent at the end of it

[Silverleafeon]

+1s to people here

And Devs, thank you so much for all the available xp bonuses.

Old farm = Nx8, H, E
New farm = E, H, N (with very few exceptions)

[Tirisha]

This is how I felt when learning the new content. It's really well designed content and fun to play.

But alas I play to much so now I'm back to the grind....

[grayham]

Great post OP, thankyou. +1.

[BlueSilence]

+1 (Once I figure out how to give it, actually).

In comparison to many online I have played in the past, DDO doesnt feel like a grind-to-have-fun experience even not having access to all of the packs.

Talking about summons, spells, enhacements, this game has the potential to do wonders. Its based on D&D after all.

Keep it up!

[Cernunan]

What a refreshingly nice attitude, no snarkiness, no attacks on other players play styles, just having fun with the new toys.

I whole heartily endorse this message.

[mystafyi]

I use an old PC with music turned down, but the new scenery still looks great and I am thankful I can still use this PC (unlike other major PC games.)

Oh man, I wish you had a better rig. With a high res install and all the graphics bells and whistles you would never log off :eek:

[sirgog]

I miss the days when DDO wasn't a grindfest. When you'd design a character, have everything you wanted for them within a month except a raid item or two, then make a new alt that played differently.

True Reincarnation killed that game, sadly. (Although the Shroud had already hurt it a lot).

[Vormaerin]

Grinding for plat isn't a grind to me, because you can play any quest and slowly accumulate plat. Grinding for a particular item sucks to me because you have to run the same quest over and over and over.



I agree. If an item doesn't drop for me in 2-3 runs, I figure its not meant for me to have it. I run quests when I think they'll be fun. Stuff I don't find fun, like tangleroot, I don't run (thank god for bta Visors!!!).

[slimkj]

Your experience in MOTU was similar to mine and I felt similarly. First time in ages DDO felt new and exciting. More like this please, devs.