Gianthold or Sands of Menechtarun?

[Kalker]

Hello DDOers! :) Since you probably read the title, you already know what my question is. Gianthold or Sands of Menechtarun?

I will definitely buy Vale of Twilight. No doubt about that. So you guys shouldn't worry about me getting that first.

Now (first), I researched on the ddowiki and found that both Gianthold and the (Demon) Sands have 11 quests. I'm not sure whether this includes the Slayer/Explorer/Rare Encounters or not, so please answer this for me. :) Both packs also have approximately 210 favor, so they're equal there too. Now, I've read sirgog's review of all adventure packs. However, I wanted to get a bit more information on each individual pack so I can make a very informed decision, since I'm only going to have 1800 TP (not including the purchase of Vale).

Second, fun. How FUN and pretty is each pack? You know how people, for example, say that the Catacombs is dull? I don't think so. I think it's a very good-looking, not-boring map from what I've seen on Youtube. So I'm not too picky. I'm also impressed easily. For both Gianthold and Demon Sands, how pretty and fun are the wilderness areas? And the quests and the raid for each pack (their fun and prettiness)?

Second-point-five. The raids. How easy is it to get a group nowadays? As in August 2012. How easy is it to get a GOOD group? What about the difficulty? And of course, fun-ness.

Third, loot. I am going to have a Paladin and Pale Master Wizard (I don't know if I'll splash Rogue or not), my main character being the Wizard. Anyway, I WILL eventually have Shroud items. However, I'm not sure what loot from each pack is better? For example, Gianthold has those quarterstaves that seem really good with my ice skills, while the Demon Sands has the Torc and jerky and stuff. Also remember my Paladin. He wants some stuff too. :D But prioritize my Wizard. I want loot that will be useful overall and will hopefully last me until the 20s. Or at least 17s-19s.

Fourth, experience. The ddowiki didn't provide me with a table of EXP like they did with the Catacombs pack, so I'm not really sure. Basically, I'm still first-life. I don't know if I'll ever TR in my lifetime, so let's not worry about that for the time being. Which pack offers more exp? I'm not talking about exp/minute thing, because I have a lot of time. Haha. It's the summer. But I mean, which will help me level up faster? I'm a free player (I will be premium once I buy some TP for the packs). I will have Vale, Red Fens, and one of these: Gianthold or Demon Sands. So yeah. I'll do the free quests until I get to the Red Fens level. Then I'll Red Fens until the Gianthold/Demon Sands. And then Vale.

Fourth-point-five. I chose to get the Red Fens (which I haven't gotten yet, but I will along with Vale when I get 1800 TP) because of the +4 Wisdom Sacred Band and the pack's seemingly-fun-ness. Is this a good idea? I don't want to take TOO long to get to the Gianthold/Demon Sands level. So I'm getting a mid-level pack to speed up the process rather than grind on free quests to get to the Gianthold/Demon Sands level. If this is a bad choice, what other mid-level pack could I get? Maybe.. Delera's or something? I also want the +4 Wisdom Sacred Band for my Paladin. :) Or can I get an alternative?

Finally, I'd like to thank everyone for reading through my long paragraphs and helping me make an informed decision. :) This great DDO community is one of the reasons why I love this game so much (I actually started in 2010, but made a new account because of my forum name which I didn't really like). So yes. Thank you everyone. :)

P.S. Why are the Sands of Menechtarun known as the Demon Sands?

P.S.S. No offense to anyone. I really appreciate your reading through my long post. But if you can, could you also add in a reason as to why you chose Gianthold or Demon Sands or no Red Fens? Rather than just a one-word post. But that's okay! Thanks.

[Ranncore]

Sands, in every respect. Has better loot for characters of all types. Can be played on Epic. The quests are much more difficult (except the raid of course - epic hard is a joke. Too bad you cant do Reavers Fate on epic, that'd make it even easier!).

For casters in particular, the Torc of Prince Raiyum de II drops there and so does the Ring of Spell Storing. Both items can be made epic.

The choice seems pretty clear to me.

[Ranncore]

Oh yeah - XP :) Welcome to soloing towers in Wiz King runs!

*edit - they are known as the Demon Sands because of the Demon Queen, Lailat, who resides there, and who you will encounter in the raid.

[Kalker]

Oh. That brings up another question. Are the epic quests of packs (like those of the Red Fens and Demon Sands) just a harder version of the quests? Or is there something else? I'm not entirely sure about the concept of epic quests. So I can't do them until level 20 right? And they're my only source of exp for 20+?

[tralfaz81]

I'll only touch on a few points. They're both great packs and highly recommended - both towards the top 3 that most players recommend as needed. I think over all Gianthold gives more as far as loot, XP, etc. But personally I enjoyed both the wilderness area and quest more in the Demon Sands. IMO the sands have a higher fun factor.

[Saravis]

Agreed with Ranncore

Additionally, XP is better in Sands because you also get Epic XP as well.


Oh. That brings up another question. Are the epic quests of packs (like those of the Red Fens and Demon Sands) just a harder version of the quests? Or is there something else? I'm not entirely sure about the concept of epic quests. So I can't do them until level 20 right? And they're my only source of exp for 20+?

Mostly its just a level 20 variant of the quest. With CRs and such boosted to what would be expected from a lvl 20 quest. However, there are some additions to certain quests in epic that make it more interesting, such as the Demon Queen getting a spam cometfall ability and wraiths ambushing you in the halls of Raiyum.
And yes you can't do them until you're at level 20+. They're not the only source of xp for lvl 20+ though, you can earn epic xp from non-epic quests, but it suffers from the same penalties that you get when heroic leveling.

[CheeseMilk]

If you wait about a week, there will (likely (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=4634354#post4634354)) be a 35% discount on adventure packs. Maybe get both!

As far as recommendations go, I like them both equally. They're both fun, great xp, and decent loot. The advantage of Gianthold is its level range; there just aren't that many quests from 13-16, and Gianthold makes up a large percentage of those. While it's certainly possible to level a first life character without these packs, second life and up can be tricky (if not impossible.) The advantage of Sands is that it has an epic difficulty setting.

In each, there are three main flagging quests, a pre-raid, and a raid. There are also walk-up quests bestowed when you find them in the slayer area. Sands has five of these, GH has six. Both slayer areas are very big, and the slayer quests are split up by creature type in each, for example, you get separate counters for gnolls, undead and scorrow in the sands. These can provide a decent amount of xp without as much grind as a single slayer count.

[carll78]

Vale is the best if you plan to TR any toon indeed! :)

[Ranncore]

Even on my third life character I skipped Gianthold simply because I don't like the quests. They're annoying. And the raid is no fun (only 3 rooms, the 1 boss and air elementals, and a puzzle. That's it). And the loot is sub-par, in my opinion. Anyways, levels 1-20 are over so fast, that you won't be using anything from Gianthold for very long. Except the Ring of the Djiin - still looking for that.

The Epic version of Sands means

1.) Being able to go back to the sands for more xp when you hit 20.
2.) Being able to upgrade your favorite Sands item to an Epic version.

And there are LOTS of sands items. So many, that they decided to put an Epic Vendor in the 12 so that you can switch epic components (scrolls) around to build your Sands items faster.

[Ranncore]

The Pre-raid for the Sands is interesting and fun - albiet, the first time you go there, very confusing and somewhat daunting :)

[Kalker]

So basically, from what I've gathered, Demon Sands will be preferable to Gianthold for first-life. And even after TR. Exp-wise, I'm assuming.


Even on my third life character I skipped Gianthold simply because I don't like the quests. They're annoying. And the raid is no fun (only 3 rooms, the 1 boss and air elementals, and a puzzle. That's it). And the loot is sub-par, in my opinion. Anyways, levels 1-20 are over so fast, that you won't be using anything from Gianthold for very long. Except the Ring of the Djiin - still looking for that.

And also, the Demon Sands' loot is superior. And the pack is more fun and pretty? :D

[pseudomasochist]

Now (first), I researched on the ddowiki and found that both Gianthold and the (Demon) Sands have 11 quests. I'm not sure whether this includes the Slayer/Explorer/Rare Encounters or not, so please answer this for me. :)
Demon Sands has a large explorer area, 3 flagging quests, 5 unrelated side quests, 1 pre-raid, and 1 raid. All but the 5 side quests have epic versions.

Gianthold has an explorer area of similar size, 3 flagging quests, 6 side quests, 1 pre-raid, and 1 raid.

There is roughly the same amount of raw content in each pack. If you plan to spend a lot of time at level 20+, the epics of Demon Sands give it a big advantage over Gianthold where quests top out at 16(14 elite).

Fun:
I enjoy the Gianthold content more but both adventure packs are well done.

Groups:
Both are among the most popular areas so finding parties for either should be easy.

Loot:
Demon Sands gets the nod here. It has items that are among the most desired by caster types, and its epic quests mean epic versions of items.

Delera's Graveyard or Red Fens:
There's a lot of free content level 10 and below but not much above 12 so higher level adventure packs tend to get recommended before low level ones. That said, if you had to chose a pack to get through low levels faster, Delera's would be the one. It's very popular, the experience rewards are good, and has a trinket that gives an experience bonus.

On the other hand, Red Fens quests have epic versions so Delera's if low levels are a priority and Red Fens if end game is more important.

[Ranncore]

So basically, from what I've gathered, Demon Sands will be preferable to Gianthold for first-life. And even after TR.

Gianthold was perhaps a better option pre-MoTU, but since so much of the game happens in epic levels now, I really can't recommend buying ANY pack without an epic option.

[Lilbadass]

Without a doubt the sands

Gianhold is slow and dull at times
Decent xp but sub par loot
The raid is hardly ever ran at lvl
the pre raid gianthold tor is farmed a lot for scales ( mostly no xp)

Sands are great
Spell storing ring is by far one of the rarer items in the game bcause the epic version is like 3 uses of a major sp pot per res( low low drop rate)
torc great for any blue bar toon
Sand has my favorite explorer area it is simply massive( can be a pan 1st few times thru it)
Offering of blood drops spectral gloves witch are great at lvl and again can be epic
And there is a ton of xp in it

[captain1z]

Gianthold is run by more players. Its generally accepted that if you want to level from 10 - 16 faster you run through gianthold. Gianthold favor gets you 20 extra hp. The items for either pack are both useful. Down side of gianthold all classes need high hitpoint totals, stuff hits hard in there and can take better than they give.

Burning Sands is run by more elite (see less casual) gamers. The landscape is vast and confusing. Xp on slayers climbs really high, really fast as more creatues per mob are encountered here than gianthold. All in all the xp in compareable, the challenges maybe slightly greater due to quest design but you can get away with having a less than optimum build for longer than you could in gianthold. Down side is mummy rot. If you go into the desert, you will become feared and you will get mummy rot; unless you are a paladin. If you go, go prepared.

Everyone gets pushed towards gianthold, the wayfinder is right by the bank. Few people dare venture into the desert simply because of all the mummies and the fear of mummy rot. Ideally Id say get both but if you had to choose, id say go with gianthold. Many players have leveled several characters to cap and never set foot in the desert, they are no worse off for not going. If you skip gianthold you can level just fine I guess, but you will lose out on battling 3 dragons but thats not a huge deal at all.

[BladeTricks]

Sands for the fact you'll be able to run that pack again when you hit 20 on your characters. Gianthold is fun too, but honestly I don't think you'll get as much mileage out of it. On first life characters, Sands should take you all the way to Vale level range (16).

Red Fens: good fun pack at level 9, and you'll be able to run it again at 20+ and try to upgrade your gear.

[Ayyelos]

Gianthold is a slightly higher level adventure pack, making the gap from 13-16 a lot easier, and has some great loot to boot.
Sands is a bit lower, but has the advantage of having an epic mode, making it more bang for your buck-you'll get more play time out of it than you will in GH.

I do prefer the sands slayer area to the gianthold one: it seems less sparse, and feels a lot bigger, probably because of the drastic changes in scenery from one area to another while gianthold feels a bit more homogenous (purple, purple everywhere!).

Good loot from both areas. Gianthold does have some nice items, especially for casters who are just starting out (stormreaver's napkin, dreamspitter), but sands has loot that you can make epic (even though that's a tall order for much of the loot out there, the point stands) such as the staff of inner sight, ring of spell storing, firestorm greaves and so on. Check it out here: http://ddowiki.com/page/Category:Sands_of_Menechtarun_epic_items

Gosh that's a hard choice, but I'd take the sands if you can only get one, hands down.

And I like fens. The quests aren't hard, but it really does feel like a nice change of pace when I head over there during my leveling process. The loot isn't terrible either. Get yourself an epic twisted talisman from there :)

[Kalker]

I'm sorry for prolonging this thread. Lol. But something else came up while I was reading the replies.

If Gianthold got the epic treatment one day (I'm trying to think long-term because I don't know when I can buy my own TP... maybe once I'm in college, which is a year+ ish from now), would you guys still prefer the Demon Sands over Gianthold?

[Ranncore]

I'm sorry for prolonging this thread. Lol. But something else came up while I was reading the replies.

If Gianthold got the epic treatment one day (I'm trying to think long-term because I don't know when I can buy my own TP... maybe once I'm in college, which is a year+ ish from now), would you guys still prefer the Demon Sands over Gianthold?

Gianthold will never get that treatment, as developers have clearly (sadly) stated that they have no intention of revisiting or modifying pre-MOTU content.

So, it's kind of a moot point.

[Dreamshifter]

Gianthold vs Sands? That is a tough choice, no doubt about it. Lets break it down a bit.

Explorer, in my opinion (and as someone who spends far too much time in Explorer zones), Sands win. Less overall XP (since it's a lower level than Gianthold), but I've maxed out Slayers there almost every life on my TR character. Lots of chests with named items (Gianthold explorer has none that I've seen), fun mobs (though watch out for the mages in the undead area!), not much to look at though (Gianthold wins there, though not by much).

Total XP, Gianthold wins for me, though not by much. More Slayer XP, most of the quests are similar overall (though the Chamber of Raiyum gives a *lot*, even if you are several levels over it). However, the Slayers are a lot more work to get, and the three flagging quests (or two of them, Crucible and Madstone Crater) are a *lot* harder, on any scale.

Level Range is also important to consider. You'll be out of range of Sands a lot sooner, and given you won't have anything after that except Vale, this could be a problem. Sands Explorer area caps at 15, Gianthold at 17, which really does make a difference. However, being a first life, and given that there are more than a few new, free, level 15+ quests, you might be ok there.

Raids, I can't speak to. I rarely run either, and haven't ever run Gianthold, so others will have to comment on how hard the raids are to get into.

On the subject of Red Fens, I'd say it's definitely worth getting. The loot is good for even mid levels, especially if you don't have access to many packs. The Explorer goes to 7500 Slayer, which is a whole lot of XP in that level range (though, it is painful to actually get 7500 kills out there). Not many quests, but I rather like them. However, it is in a level range with lots of free quests, and the equipment is still low level. Plus, the free set of Lordsmarch quests offer some very nice bits (Sora Kell set on a Paladin, for example, is very helpful). So, it's a tough call. It would definitely be on my top 5 purchases, though.

Overall, I think I'd lean toward Sands, but it is close. I will say this, I have far more fun running Sands than I ever did in Gianthold, for whatever that's worth.

[captain1z]

Gianthold will never get that treatment, as developers have clearly (sadly) stated that they have no intention of revisiting or modifying pre-MOTU content.

So, it's kind of a moot point.

Never say never. One word from a higher up, a change in trends, an overwhelming demand. Changes in climate turn no into yes but at this point they have no plans.

[Kalker]

Okay. So in the Red Fens level-range, there's a lot of free quests available. I'm assuming there are enough of these said quests for me to get to the Demon Sands recommended level and survive there. Right?


Level Range is also important to consider. You'll be out of range of Sands a lot sooner, and given you won't have anything after that except Vale, this could be a problem. Sands Explorer area caps at 15, Gianthold at 17, which really does make a difference. However, being a first life, and given that there are more than a few new, free, level 15+ quests, you might be ok there.

If this is the case, then it might be okay for me to play free quests up until a level where I can comfortably be in the Demon Sands and do well. If there's a sort of big gap between the Sands and Vale, would you guys have any recommendations if I decide not to buy the Red Fens? Or maybe, just maybe, I'll buy Gianthold (along with Vale and Sands, for a grand total of 1650 TP with the 35% sale and my 5% demo coupon). Of course, this is if there are no other options to help me get to Vale without grinding.

In a nutshell:
levels 1-x (free quests) / levels x-y (Demon Sands) / levels y-z (any recommended quest or maybe Gianthold if the situation calls for it) / levels z-20 (Vale of Twilight).

Or I'll insert Red Fens and maybe a cheap pack for the levels y-z. Or I'll omit Red Fens altogether for a better y-z pack. Anyway, is this a good set-up then?

[captain1z]

Gianthold vs Sands?

Raids, I can't speak to. I rarely run either, and haven't ever run Gianthold, so others will have to comment on how hard the raids are to get into.

Gianthold raid = 1person fighting a giant while 1 person heals him. 10 people wait around until the giant is gone, then 1 person will solve a "blackout" puzzle. All enjoy the spoils. Takes places basicly in 1 room, even tho its sort of really 3 rooms....kinda.

Sands raid = 12 players fight a demon queen and she is tough. Takes place in one room on a platform even. Kill her and all enjoy the spoils.

Sands is definately the harder of the 2.

[Kalker]

Oh. And one more thing. Sorry.
I want to avoid grinding if I can. By that, I mean running the same quests over and over until I can gain access to new quests. That will be boring, and I want an abundance of quests every level. :D

[Ranncore]

I want an abundance of quests every level. :D

I think the entire playerbase has been telling the developers that for years, but sadly...

[Dreamshifter]

Oh. And one more thing. Sorry.
I want to avoid grinding if I can. By that, I mean running the same quests over and over until I can gain access to new quests. That will be boring, and I want an abundance of quests every level. :D

If that's a concern, then that changes things. I'd definitely say, skip Red Fens for now, and head for both Sands and Gianthold. That limits the grinding as much as is possible, given a shortage of other packs.

[ddonoobgamer]

Third, loot. I am going to have a Paladin and Pale Master Wizard (I don't know if I'll splash Rogue or not), my main character being the Wizard. Anyway, I WILL eventually have Shroud items. However, I'm not sure what loot from each pack is better?

You can stop right here. Sands has Torc. End of story. :)

Seriously, the one item I find most useful out of all my items I have on my blue bar toons is the torc. It's less useful in group play where you don't get hit as much, but it's so useful in solo play that I think this item alone is worth getting the pack.

On top of that, sands is basically 2 packs in one because it not only provides mid-game content, but it also provides end-game content because it contains epic quests. Gianthold is only mid-game content. This was less important before when only a small portion of the playerbase can handle epics, but now that epics just means lvl 20+ content, its very useful for any player.

So my vote goes to Sands.

[Terminus-Est]

Generally, when people ask for a recommendation on this nature, I recommend Gianthold.

For the simply reason that it is more popular, its self-sustaining, you can, when your at level, generally find groups for it.

Groups for Sands are fewer, with the notable exception of the Wizard King.

If your looking to have fun and enjoy the environment... both are actually pretty awesome. Gianthold is the first of the different landscapes you'll have access to in DDO that really seems fantastical. Sands is an awesome desert full of a variety of awesome things. Slayers is fun and theoretically rewarding, I like the walk-ups and most of the flagging. I prefer Sands.

If you only get one, you will not have made the wrong choice. If possible, I'd say wait for a sale to try and get both. Unless you have a character that is in the level range -right now- you can afford to wait.

And speaking of Red Fens; yes as other people have noted, Delera and even Tangleroot Gorge is more popular. Personally, I run harbor and marketplace (+Sharn Syndicate, and the Depths series out of house D) till I can run Delera or Tangle, which'll get me to Vault of Night which gets me to Sands in good shape, which generally gets me to Shroud. After that a quick detour to the Inspired Quarter and a tango or two with the Dreaming Dark and I'm level 20. There are alot of free quests sprinkled in there as well that I'll not mention specifically, aside from the Depths chain.

[Kalker]

Okay. So in the Red Fens level-range, there's a lot of free quests available. I'm assuming there are enough of these said quests for me to get to the Demon Sands recommended level and survive there. Right?



If this is the case, then it might be okay for me to play free quests up until a level where I can comfortably be in the Demon Sands and do well. If there's a sort of big gap between the Sands and Vale, would you guys have any recommendations if I decide not to buy the Red Fens? Or maybe, just maybe, I'll buy Gianthold (along with Vale and Sands, for a grand total of 1650 TP with the 35% sale and my 5% demo coupon). Of course, this is if there are no other options to help me get to Vale without grinding.

In a nutshell:
levels 1-x (free quests) / levels x-y (Demon Sands) / levels y-z (any recommended quest or maybe Gianthold if the situation calls for it) / levels z-20 (Vale of Twilight).

Or I'll insert Red Fens and maybe a cheap pack for the levels y-z. Or I'll omit Red Fens altogether for a better y-z pack. Anyway, is this a good set-up then?

Okay. So I put this up earlier. But I don't think I'll use it anymore because I've been going through all the replies. Or maybe I could get some last answers on this. Haha.

First, thank you to everyone who gave me their opinion. I appreciate your guys' efforts in trying to explain to me which pack to pick and why. Everyone's posts were very persuading. Lol. I swayed back and forth. However, at the end, I'm going to have to go with the Demon Sands.

If I do this, I'll have some left-over TP. That is why I quoted the above. Unless there is something else that should be mentioned to me, I'll PROBABLY buy Vale and Demon Sands. I'd really like Gianthold too, but I don't know if there might be a better alternative. As someone said earlier, the free content and Sands will probably be enough to get me to level 20 in my first life.

So.. yeah. This probably answers all my questions, save two. Lol. Sorry.

First question: To shorten the time that I would have to spend to get to Sands, should I buy Red Fens? Do I even need it? There's epic content like some of the posters have said. However, I already have epic from Sands, so I don't think I'll need Red Fens.. And the Delera's and other mid-level packs might be a bit unnecessary IF there is enough free content for me not to be bored. I don't know how much free content there is; that's why I've been worried about getting a mid-level pack. So I don't have to grind for hours before I can minimumly survive in the Demon Sands. So Red Fens might not be needed because I have epic Sands and enough free quests. (Paragraph below.)
If that's the case, I really don't need a mid-level pack and I should just buy Gianthold and grind through all the free quests (meaning playing them and still have fun) until I can comfortably level in Sands. I was just sort of doubtful on this because the Demon Sands and Gianthold seem redundant (as their level ranges overlap-ish). But that's okay. Maybe one day I'll TR. In that case, both Demon Sands and Gianthold would be good. Refer to second question below.

Second question: IF I were to TR, would Demon Sands + Gianthold + Vale be enough to get me to 20? Do successive TRs require more exp to level up? (That's 2 questions. Lol.)

P.S. If I TR, I will definitely ask more questions about adventure packs. Haha. So.. yeah. Hopefully I'll get replies as in-depth and helpful as the ones I've received today.

P.S.S Just to say something. I was right in complimenting the DDO community. You guys are very, very helpful, and I'm glad to have received so much input and advice from experienced players. So.. yeah. Thank you. I'll make the right decision with your guys' help. :)

[Lilbadass]

Trs do take more exp to lvl , the big jump tho is th 2nd life to the 3rd life
I found a link that should help a lil
http://ddowiki.com/page/Experience_points_after_Reincarnation(s)

[Tshober]

I really enjoyed Sands. Gianthold was fun too but not quite as fun as Sands. Both were more fun than Vale but Vale has GS so it is a must if you care about gear.

There are lots of free quests at the level of Red Fens. I really liked Red Fens but it is not really needed if you are willing to repeat some free stuff. There is far less free stuff available at the Sands, GH, and Vale levels.

[Arkenvis]

...
First question: To shorten the time that I would have to spend to get to Sands, should I buy Red Fens? Do I even need it? There's epic content like some of the posters have said. However, I already have epic from Sands, so I don't think I'll need Red Fens.. And the Delera's and other mid-level packs might be a bit unnecessary IF there is enough free content for me not to be bored. I don't know how much free content there is; that's why I've been worried about getting a mid-level pack. So I don't have to grind for hours before I can minimumly survive in the Demon Sands. So Red Fens might not be needed because I have epic Sands and enough free quests. (Paragraph below.)
If that's the case, I really don't need a mid-level pack and I should just buy Gianthold and grind through all the free quests (meaning playing them and still have fun) until I can comfortably level in Sands. I was just sort of doubtful on this because the Demon Sands and Gianthold seem redundant (as their level ranges overlap-ish). But that's okay. Maybe one day I'll TR. In that case, both Demon Sands and Gianthold would be good. Refer to second question below.

Second question: IF I were to TR, would Demon Sands + Gianthold + Vale be enough to get me to 20? Do successive TRs require more exp to level up? (That's 2 questions. Lol.)
...

One advantage to having both Fens and Sands would be more epic quests to run to get to 25. Unfortunately, if you run the quests a bunch to get to Vale levels, you may face repeat penalties during the 20-25 stretch. If your immediate concern is being able to get the epic tokens to TR, one epic pack will do it, just slower than having more than one set of quests to run. If the goal is to get to 25, you'll end up wanting more epic content than just one pack, especially if you don't like to repeat quests.

Speaking of repeats and TRing--When you TR, only the 2nd and 3rd lives (1st and 2nd TRs) increase the exp you need to get to 20. After that, the exp requirement quits going up. Fourth life and beyond require no more exp than the 3rd life.

Between Sands, GH, Vale, and free quests + daily challenge tokens (be sure to pick them up every day on both of your characters, and save them for later use), you should be able to reach 20 on successive lives, though you may end up repeating quests more than you'd like, plus you may find yourself spending a lot of time in the wilderness areas to earn more slayer exp. The bright side is, you can use the favor from the packs you pick up to earn more points to buy more packs, giving you more options for future lives/characters.

[teh_meh]

Sands is hands down my favorite pack in the entire game and always has been. GH makes me fall asleep, although GH is pretty necessary for TR'ing after life #2. Then again...doing a life without sacking Wiz King and Oob would be pretty miserable as well.

Definitely think you'll get way more bang for the buck out of Sands. And the quest architecture of 'The Chamber of Raiyum' is tops in the game. Who ever designed it was a genius.

[Avenging_Angel]

Pro tip: wait for next week and hope for a 35% discount on Eberron adventure packs. It's one of the options for Players' Choice this week.

[luvirini]

Gianthold raid = 1person fighting a giant while 1 person heals him. 10 people wait around until the giant is gone, then 1 person will solve a "blackout" puzzle. All enjoy the spoils. Takes places basicly in 1 room, even tho its sort of really 3 rooms....kinda.

Sands raid = 12 players fight a demon queen and she is tough. Takes place in one room on a platform even. Kill her and all enjoy the spoils.

Sands is definitely the harder of the 2.

Not anymore:

Now it is: Gianthold raid: All beat on the giant while being tossed around by the elements and being tossed up(He has a lot more hitpoints now) until the giant is low on health and then all pike until all orbs lit and one person does the puzzle while everyone else is being tossed around my the elements. Takes about 15 minutes total depending on the luck with the orbs.

Sands raid run on two difficulties currently: Eilite: The sorcerers nuke her and she dies. Epic hard: The melee beats on her and sorcerers nuke her and she dies(a healer is kind of needed in most cases on epic hard to heal the melees). In both cases it takes about 5 minutes total.

[Ausdoerrt]

Pro tip: wait for next week and hope for a 35% discount on Eberron adventure packs. It's one of the options for Players' Choice this week.

Nice catch, though sadly the XP boosts are more likely to win. After all, the small percentage of people who frequent the site and forums care more about xp/minute than anything else in the game.

[Kalker]

If the XP boosts win, will there be another Players' Choice the following week? Will there be the option of adventure packs, and will it also be 35% off? Or do these things vary?

[Shinjiteru]

Even if it might be too late... I know many people who didn't like the sands quests when they were new to the game. If you are new and don't have a group for chamber of rayium you might take one hour or more to complete. And I doubt that a first toon is able to keep up with the people who run these quests on elite and split up for the towers.

But still... sands has the better items if you try to make them epic, although this is going to take some time. Think every other epic pack hands out epic items faster.

And I also have to say sorry if you already said it, but I would suggest to get sands and vault of night instead of GH and red fens, just because it seems you are in need of epic packs.

I personally would also recommend to save some TP for the evening star adv packs and explorer areas just in case you want to stay lvl 20-25 for some time and don't want to TR right away.


From the quests themselves and your original question I would recommend GH, from my point of view sands has 2 quests which can be very hard and frustrating for first timers where GH only has one. And GH has the dragon scale armors which got buffed up bit with U14, think the blue one might be handy for a first life caster.
But yeah... in the end the sands has better items, but most of them need to be made epic, but if you take your time and patience for that they are much better.
So the question is... would you like the endgame epic ingredient farming if you don't like farming quests for xp... when you have to farm the same quest over and over again for a chance of an epic mat you get much less reward each run compared to the xp reward you get while leveling...

So if you are doing 1-2 TRs or more befor you enter endgame... GH might be the better choice because it makes TRing easier, there are still some f2p quests in the levelrange of sands, but there are nearly none at the lvl range of GH.


Let's take one of the most wanted items from sands... epic ring of spell storing... first you need the base item... if you don't buy it from the AH you have to run 20-100 times to a rare spawn in the explorer area to check his chest.
Then you have to run at least 1-2 of the sands quest for the same amount till you get the ingredients to make that ring... If that sounds like completely no fun for you... I'd say you only need epic packs to get your tokens for the next life (TR) and GH might be more valuable for you than sands.

But in general... if you only have a limited amount of TP, only buy a pack when it's on sale unless it's really important somewhen (not having to farm the same quest over and over again doesn't count as important in this case :P ). I would also try to get as much additional favor for your TP as possible so that you can farm favor TP rewards until you can buy another pack.

Epic items are more of a grind than each level up, especially in your first life. So if you don't like having to farm the same quest over and over again... you need either many epic packs and you don't seem to have the TP for that or you probably are going to TR at least 3 times and should make sure to get the important packs for the TR and then as many favor each life as possible to get free TP. And I think GH is much more valuable for a TR than sands, mainly because you can keep GH for 1-2 levels later, but you are probably also going to need another pack after vale in your second/third life if you start vale befor reaching lvl 18.

[Ryiah]

If you are new and don't have a group for chamber of rayium you might take one hour or more to complete.

Gianthold has Crucible which I personally find a lot more difficult with a bad pug than Chamber of Raiyum. Chamber of Raiyum doesn't force you to solve a maze, run/swim through TWO sets of traps, etc. Soloing Gianthold is a lot more painful than soloing the Desert quests if not downright impossible for a newcomer.