objection to streaks

[trapmana]

in the past few months i have seen ongoing reduction in the number of non streak based groups most of these contain player who are under equipped or running on low stats due to being 1st or 2nd lifers.

but then i cant blame them for trying to get in to elites as they really have little other option.
They ether run on elite or they don't get to play.

The bonuses from streaks are now making up so much of the exp reward that the range of players viable for exp reasons has been narrowed to 2 lv's this is particularly frustrating as you will now typically break the level range of a raid during the flagging process (yes im aware levels can be held back but doing so then means your not meeting the level range for other quests)

im finding this damaging to the lfg system as the previously acceptable level range 3 above or below for a total of 6 it is now a range of 2.

i would like to suggests the following ideas to try and improve this situation.

make it so that the bb bonus is awarded the first time the quest is completed on elite regardless of if it has been previously been done on normal or hard.

allow players to freeze there streak so that they can take part in guild raids and quests like devils assault.

allow players to disable exp rewards they by allowing loot or fun runs with guild members.

allow players to down level them selves so that if your to high you can reduce your level and still get to play with your guild members.

have the streak apply to any first time content run rather than specific mode settings (this would help retain the main benefit the streak system has brought in varying the quests run)

make it so first life characters (or maby first ever toons) can get bravery bonus on normal (I do not want to run elite with people who have never done a quest at all ever)

make its a flat bonus for first time ever elite instead of a accruing streak (yes people are that fussed about it even thou its only 5 quests to max it.

i believe if some thing is not done then new players are going to be put off and that the lfg system will continue to be stagnant.

[Kylstrem]

If there are that many people who want to run non-elite streaks, then I would imagine if those people started an LFM for that type of group, they would fill up relatively fast.

Otherwise, it sounds like too many people just don't want to create their own LFMs.

[trapmana]

not the case i have encountered many instanced when elite isnt wanted but is forced on player due to the current streak culture.

and no people wont risk losing a streak to run a non elite even if they would quite like to i can under stand this from a numerical point of view but its damaging to lfg and to guild runs etc

from a logical point of view some one mite not want to run elite due to a lack of a healer / trapper there for instead of running normal / hard as would pre streak it dose not go ahead at all.

this has lead to lots of groups trying to for over a long period of time with out success.
(setting the party to find normal's or hard's doesn't help as elite streakers would be penalized for doing them there for wont consider it i am aware of many players who pre streak being a lot more relaxed about what content and settings where played i can under stand why they think in this fashion as they are numerically rewarded for doing so how every the reduction in quest running is not a good thing for any one)

[shadereaper33]

Also, keep in mind that there are some players, like myself, who find normal/hard generally easy enough to solo that joining a pug isn't worth the headache. with regards to your various suggestions:

1- defeats the whole purpose of the bravery bonus
2- you can already do this as long as someone in the party is 3+ levels over the quest level. thus, anyone level 9 or higher would "freeze" the BB for everyone in devil assault, regardless of quest difficulty
3- um, I just can't see how that would ever be used
4- this could be abused to run lower level quests that give significantly better xp (von3/shadowcrypt)
5- not sure what you are getting at with this one
6- again, this defeats the purpose of the bravery bonus
7- there is already a flat bonus for doing a quest for the first time on elite, the BB is supposed to be a seperate bonus on top of that.

As far as your concerns go, during my playtime on my server, the LFM panel is quite full. Are a lot of them BB streaks? probably. But nothing stops a new player from joining, saying "hey, im new, but I will try to learn" and then having fun learning how to do the quest on elite.

[Saravis]

I was going to come in here and say /not signed, sick of all these BB whiners, etc, etc. However, you've at least shown the decency to actually provide suggestions, rather than just whine and rant and not provide any sort of compromise to those of us who like BB. I can respect that.

However

/not signed

Reason boils down to simply that your suggestions prevents BB from being a bravery bonus.
Keep it up though, you may yet come up with a more adequate suggestion to the system.

[trapmana]

been standing in a lfg for tear for 2 hours it has not run.the party refuses to try hard with mercs due to bb/ streaks there for its not going to run this isnt the frist time i have encountered this and im sick of it.

i have seen new played stop playing due to being forced in to content there is no way there character can handle (majorly rouges due to ludicrously high dcs on elite traps for first lifers)

cant do normal due to streaks
cant do hard due to streaks
cant do elite due to a first life trapper / healer / tank who just doesn't have the equipment or base stat points.

this isn't a new situation it happens at all levels and has lead me on occasion to go an entire week with out being inside a single quest. that just isnt fun

regarding signing i think it displays my characters name on the left of my post just i case it doesn't its Trapmana

the reason people are whinging is there is a problem ignoring it wont fix it

how about if your toon could be down leveled but received exp equivalent to its actual level this would still allow you to at east get in a a quest

[N1ko]

Devils assault does not have any influence on one's bravery bonus, thus you are free to run it with your guild/friends if you are wanting to.

[goodspeed]

lol your in a group for tear? One on elite, forget those ops. All it takes is one lagger or jumpless person to miss the falls and then the whole city lights up as they attempt to flee. Or drown themselves.

I think the only place you really need a trapper is gwylands stand, delera part 1 and 4. (Not really one if you have the hp to take a double hit of ice with some reflex) And a couple others.

But tear is usually always a headache with a pug because they are all nubs. The time you waste on those ops you could of ran the thing twice. Elite then hard. Then usually theirs the people that have a fit. OMG no healz!! OMG NO Full Grpz?

Useless baggage the lot of em. Only good for 10% hit to xp.

Theirs not even a twink factor in there. From scratch, no pots, no real gear, just a training dummy ship buff and a starter great axe with a hire and I soloed it. As a fighter. Not a mage, not a healer, not some specialist arti, or ranging ranger. A true blue, blow for blow handicapped low level melee.

[Ertay]

I can relate to that somewhat. From earlier dev statements, streaks seemed to be designed to encourage going elite, which they thought would be somewhat rare and restricted to mostly TRs and their alts. Now though, that running elite pretty much became standard, it feels more like punishment to break the streak instead.

Thus, it creates a situation where newer players who can't find a group feel like they can't do anything because they fear breaking their streaks. They could of course always pick it up again, but the feeling of wasting potential hurts somewhat, and I can accept it might be a bit too much.

On the other hand, streaks are nice for the TR folks, who need every bit of xp they can get, even more so on the higher levels. Maybe a middle ground solution would work: When you'd break your streak under the current system, make it just decrease by 1 on both counters instead. Optionally, VIPs could get a slight bonus in a similar way, maybe have their counter decrease only from the second run on.

[dunklezhan]

I... actually agree with the OPs main point. And I say this as someone who levels s l o w l y and needs all the XP help he can get.

Also I like the concept of bravery bonuses and streaks very much. I think perhaps the max streak bonus just ought to be reduced by maybe half so it's just not that big a deal to lose them*, and I certainly think it shouldn't count for raids at all. No-one runs raids for XP, that's not the point of them.

*in truth it isn't that big a deal to lose them. Before they were around you just ran NNNNNNHE anyway if you cared that much right?

[dragons1ayer74]

... Maybe a middle ground solution would work: When you'd break your streak under the current system, make it just decrease by 1 on both counters instead. Optionally, VIPs could get a slight bonus in a similar way, maybe have their counter decrease only from the second run on.

+1 Great Idea!

[Qhualor]

elite BB has really made questing... um.. interesting. sometimes you do find that group that works well together, but often you find 1, 2, 3 players in the group who are clearly not ready for that difficulty. the streak is so good that people just wont try to complete on *gasp*hard or *gasp gasp* normal.

its really not that hard to pick up elite streak again. you could even do worst xp quests to get it back and save the good xp quests for when you get the elite BB again. also, if you work your xp farming right like im doing, you can get the elite streak doing quests 2 levels below your level. in other words, im currently 11 and im doing elite level 9 quests. when im 12, ill do elite level 10 quests. this way im not so stuck in the mid level range and the quests arent overly difficult for me.

i dont know what an alternative would be to streaks easier, but i like the idea of freezing your streak.

[dunklezhan]

When you'd break your streak under the current system, make it just decrease by 1 on both counters instead. .

Don't think this goes quite far enough. When you have 50 elite streak total, taking that to 49 provides no penalty. It should simply reduce your 'sequential streak count' by one instead.

You max out at what, 10 elites in a row or something for your 50% bonus? Regardless of what your streak total is, if doing a quest on normal all of a sudden makes you count as if you'd only done 9 sequential, you could earn it back with one quest at 45% elite bonus after you finish your normal. And if you do a couple of normals in a night with a guildie or something, you've still not got to go too far to catch back up.

Of course, this might be exactly what you meant. But it could've been read to mean reduces your elite streak total by 1, taking you from 100 to 99, resulting in no change to the XP bonus. Which means it may as well be no penalty at all.

[trapmana]

1-make it so that the bb bonus is awarded the first time the quest is completed on elite regardless of if it has been previously been done on normal or hard.

defeats the whole purpose of the bravery bonus.

i dont see how as most tr's have done there quests a million times in fact its only really bravery for first life or first ever toons and they just can not handle the elite setting

2-allow players to freeze there streak so that they can take part in guild raids and quests like devils assault.

you can already do this as long as someone in the party is 3+ levels over the quest level. thus, anyone level 9 or higher would "freeze" the BB for everyone in devil assault, regardless of quest difficulty

i meant more as in have a guild ship crew man who can lock your exp/streak allowing you to help out new or struggling members with out the pugs there riding with freaking out about loss of bb or screwing your self over

3-allow players to disable exp rewards they by allowing loot or fun runs with guild members.

um, I just can't see how that would ever be used

pretty much the same as number 2 think of it as being like recalling out of shroud before the end chest but with out the risk that some one just walks up and opens it

4-allow players to down level them selves so that if your to high you can reduce your level and still get to play with your guild members.

this could be abused to run lower level quests that give significantly better xp (von3/shadowcrypt)

make it so you get exp as if your of your original level this still stops you screwing over the rest of the party


5-have the streak apply to any first time content run rather than specific mode settings (this would help retain the main benefit the streak system has brought in varying the quests run)

not sure what you are getting at with this one

as in if you have never ever run a quest you get the bonus regardless of mode this would still encourage quest variation. if you repeatedly do new quests rather than grinding you get the bonus regardless of setting (sorry but i don't see how a elite run is more difficult for a 3rd lifer with green steel than is is for a first lifer with random gear)

6-make it so first life characters (or maby first ever toons) can get bravery bonus on normal (I do not want to run elite with people who have never done a quest at all ever)

again, this defeats the purpose of the bravery bonus

again is it really a bravery bonus atm i find putting on green steel at lv 12 make things a lot easier if it really is a bravery bonus maybe it should be 1st life only as currently i believe its really a how cant we stop it taking 5 grinding repeats of the same old quests for a tr to level up bonus. at which point i wish to suggest there are better ways of doing this such as maybe releasing the new content between levels 14 and 20 rather than this how many times can u use a d100 system that is the post lv 20 set up (but that's getting off topic)

7-make its a flat bonus for first time ever elite instead of a accruing streak (yes people are that fussed about it even thou its only 5 quests to max it1- defeats the whole purpose of the bravery bonus.

there is already a flat bonus for doing a quest for the first time on elite, the BB is supposed to be a seperate bonus on top of that.

if not for a reason already mentioned why is it needed then its not a matter of being brave when your massively over geared.

8-i dont see how as most tr's have done there quests a million times in fact its only really bravery for first life or first ever toons and they just can not handle the elite setting

if the toon has 500 hp toon dose not die to traps/ disintegrates evocations etc is basically unchallenged by some things in an elite

if i have 200 hp the toon (pritty typical for a first lifer) how can can it survive every other spell/ attack /effect or trap dealing more damage than its total hp and dc's being set well beyond numbers they can actually obtain at there level with out out side help from a player acting as there patron.

[trapmana]

i like the idea of a tick toking counter but from the current culture unless it counted up to 12 but capped out at 10 then you wouldn't get any normals or hards the people dont self nerf if they can avoid it even by as little as 5 % just look at the dedication to usage of ship exp buffs and voices etc

[Heladron]

but then i cant blame them for trying to get in to elites as they really have little other option.
They ether run on elite or they don't get to play.


There is another option and that is put up an LFM for a lesser level. There are still plenty of people running normal as far as I can tell. I'm always asking if they are running elite and if they say no I just put up an LFM or go in on elite by myself.



i would like to suggests the following ideas to try and improve this situation.

make it so that the bb bonus is awarded the first time the quest is completed on elite regardless of if it has been previously been done on normal or hard.


Not sure that is very good as I think part of the point of the bravery bonus is to challenge yourself and earn a reward for doing so. It's not very rewarding if I can go in and run elite later for a huge bonus.

This is really about what players currently find valuable and right now players find more value it running first time elite. Your renown, level and everything goes up faster and you are rewarded greatly for taking big risks. It seems like a perfect system. Great risk yields big reward and little risk yields little reward.

[Purgatorii]

My opinion is how about we just leave the whole streak system exactly the way it is?

People aren't unable to find people willing to run Hards and Norms, they're just not finding LFMs for them already up.

Throw up a Hard or Norm LFM and see if you don't get some interest.

Us elite streakers join norm/hard LFM all the time (after we've done it once on elite). Hard is usually the best XP farm difficulty (judging time spent vs xp received).

The point here is that people have got to get over this irrational desire to NOT be the leader of the party. Even if you don't know the quest you can still be the LFM manager.

[teh_meh]

bravery bonus, overall, is a major improvement to the game. yes, it has caused some unfortunate fallout.

I just solo-hard-streak to cap but if I did pug it out, my lfm would go a little something like this:

running on hard. What Justin Beiber is thinking about RIGHT NOW concerns me more that your elite streak.

[goodspeed]

Bah forget that decrease stuff. I say we change bravery bonus altogether and only allow it on elite difficulty! Or wen entering the quest the first time choose what diff you want your brave bonus to count for, and then the others won't add it.

Go it, select elite, then play hard and streak saved. Of course this would probably promote more soloing as if I didn't need some poor sucker with 2 or more wings above em to open elite, I'd just farm the quest from norm up collecting my bonus at the 3 time end.

[Skavenaps]

been standing in a lfg for tear for 2 hours it has not run.

sorry to say that,and dont mean to be personal

only a fool wait 2 hours to do a sad quest. maybe i could imagine waiting for it at lvl 25 for a raid.. but at low level for tear? if cant find a group to do 1 dungeon.. jump to another and try later. if you are wasting 2 hours of your time.. well its really no BB's fault.

[JollySwagMan]

But tear is usually always a headache with a pug because they are all nubs. The time you waste on those ops you could of ran the thing twice. Elite then hard. Then usually theirs the people that have a fit. OMG no healz!! OMG NO Full Grpz?

Useless baggage the lot of em. Only good for 10% hit to xp.

Theirs not even a twink factor in there. From scratch, no pots, no real gear, just a training dummy ship buff and a starter great axe with a hire and I soloed it. As a fighter. Not a mage, not a healer, not some specialist arti, or ranging ranger. A true blue, blow for blow handicapped low level melee.

Ahem. Grats on your achievement. Now, about that attitude.

Do it without ship buffs next!

Then without a hireling!

Then after that, only use the potions you find in the quest.

Then you get to call people 'nubs' :D

Then, do it with full dungeon scaling (5 soulstones/friends piking at entrance)

Then, do it on a GIMP (random multiclass determined by diceroll) character...

Then do it on a PD/Ironman toon

etc.

[sdrocky]

I like my BB. But i keep other toons that dont have one going, to play with when i cant run the quests i need to.

[Brattyone]

...
I just solo-hard-streak to cap but if I did pug it out, my lfm would go a little something like this:

running on hard. What Justin Beiber is thinking about RIGHT NOW concerns me more that your elite streak.

I've run into a few vets that have been awesome to newer players, but I've run into way more that look down their noses at newbies. The above-posted comment made me think of them and is soooo fitting with how I feel. Awesome!

[Machination]

On Khyber, there has been a plethora of norm/hard LFM's up at every level since U14. In fact its a lot more than I used to see before U14, in particular for lower level stuff.

I was of course keeping my streak since I TR'd this particular toon about a week after update and I always do until about lvl 18 or so then maybe drop it depending on class I am playing. And I was a bit shocked at the lack of Elite Streak groups. There were many more normal / hard groups for everything up.

Of course my solution is to post up an LFM and get started on the quest. And another poster above me stated (and I paraphrase) "put up an LFM when what you want is not there".

Elite streaking is OPTIONAL, nobody forces you to do it. Nobody forces you to post Elite group LFM, nobody forces you to join them.

And another point, is that even if there was no "elite streak" mechanism in place, i would probably be doing one Elite run on 80% or more of the content anyway. Farming runs are normally done on hard or norm, except on exceptional quests or an exceptional group. So the entire call to "get rid of streak bonus" does nothing for the OP complaints anyway. In fact without the streak bonus, we would be back to the good ole days of "OMG He Died and killed our 5%, kick him!" and the "don't put up LFM, we dont' need the death penalty". People seem to have a short memory and when XP was a real grind, that 5% became so important one death could get you kicked from some groups. Elite streak solved that problem, and that was a much bigger problem then any of the OP stated issues (even though I don't think any of them are issues if you learn to use the LFM system)




in the past few months i have seen ongoing reduction in the number of non streak based groups most of these contain player who are under equipped or running on low stats due to being 1st or 2nd lifers.

but then i cant blame them for trying to get in to elites as they really have little other option.
They ether run on elite or they don't get to play.

The bonuses from streaks are now making up so much of the exp reward that the range of players viable for exp reasons has been narrowed to 2 lv's this is particularly frustrating as you will now typically break the level range of a raid during the flagging process (yes im aware levels can be held back but doing so then means your not meeting the level range for other quests)

im finding this damaging to the lfg system as the previously acceptable level range 3 above or below for a total of 6 it is now a range of 2.

i would like to suggests the following ideas to try and improve this situation.

make it so that the bb bonus is awarded the first time the quest is completed on elite regardless of if it has been previously been done on normal or hard.

allow players to freeze there streak so that they can take part in guild raids and quests like devils assault.

allow players to disable exp rewards they by allowing loot or fun runs with guild members.

allow players to down level them selves so that if your to high you can reduce your level and still get to play with your guild members.

have the streak apply to any first time content run rather than specific mode settings (this would help retain the main benefit the streak system has brought in varying the quests run)

make it so first life characters (or maby first ever toons) can get bravery bonus on normal (I do not want to run elite with people who have never done a quest at all ever)

make its a flat bonus for first time ever elite instead of a accruing streak (yes people are that fussed about it even thou its only 5 quests to max it.

i believe if some thing is not done then new players are going to be put off and that the lfg system will continue to be stagnant.

[Gizeh]

People aren't unable to find people willing to run Hards and Norms, they're just not finding LFMs for them already up.

Throw up a Hard or Norm LFM and see if you don't get some interest.


When I put up an LFM for a quest I run for the first time on a character (doesn't happen often, but it does happen), I usually put it up for a normal run on my first lifers, as I have a premium account and don't want to wait for an opener.

But even if I put "normal" in the LFM description box, most people who apply will ask if we couldn't run on elite / why I don't want to run it on elite and then decline because they don't want to break their streak. Once I had someone join my LFM, which clearly stated my intent to run the quest on normal and immediately entered on hard without saying a word.

I do not think the streak/BB system is bad. But saying "it's no problem to run a quest on normal, just put up an LFM for it" is simply not true. Currently it would be "It's no problem to run a quest on normal, just solo it." Which is sad, because while most normal quests are easily soloable if you know them it's usually more fun to run them with others.



Devils assault does not have any influence on one's bravery bonus, thus you are free to run it with your guild/friends if you are wanting to.

"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato

[Machination]

Ok two points:

1. When I farm runs on normal, I don't typically want to do elite again, and when people join my group and say "hey i want to do elite", I normally say no. And at least 50% of them stay anyway.

2. If someone enters on "hard" when you have posted for normal, say something. The new window system allows to reset at the door. If they don't come out, reform.




When I put up an LFM for a quest I run for the first time on a character (doesn't happen often, but it does happen), I usually put it up for a normal run on my first lifers, as I have a premium account and don't want to wait for an opener.

But even if I put "normal" in the LFM description box, most people who apply will ask if we couldn't run on elite / why I don't want to run it on elite and then decline because they don't want to break their streak. Once I had someone join my LFM, which clearly stated my intent to run the quest on normal and immediately entered on hard without saying a word.

I do not think the streak/BB system is bad. But saying "it's no problem to run a quest on normal, just put up an LFM for it" is simply not true. Currently it would be "It's no problem to run a quest on normal, just solo it." Which is sad, because while most normal quests are easily soloable if you know them it's usually more fun to run them with others.




"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato

[Gizeh]

Ok two points:

1. When I farm runs on normal, I don't typically want to do elite again, and when people join my group and say "hey i want to do elite", I normally say no. And at least 50% of them stay anyway.

2. If someone enters on "hard" when you have posted for normal, say something. The new window system allows to reset at the door. If they don't come out, reform.

I was just trying to illustrate that it's not as easy as some people think to get players for a normal or hard run.

Also, it is annoying to have people ask if the quest could be run on elite when the LFM clearly states "normal" in the comments *and* in the selected difficulty setting.

And of course I dropped the guy who hijacked my group. :)

[Isolani]

The people that are actually most able to elite streak aren't on LFM. I see tons of elite streak LFM with the quest in progress and they're like 45 minutes into a quest that should take 10-15 minutes. I basically avoid elite streak pugs, they have a tendency to somehow turn what should be a 2-3 minute elite blockade buster run into 20 minutes.

I see very few hard or normal groups. Half the LFMs are useless for xp because it's somebody way over level doing favor runs. Starting your own hard or normal LFM is really the only way to go if you aren't looking for elite.

I play early AM hours after work usually, so groups aren't all that plentiful. If I'm playing a caster I just solo elite streak through Reavers Refuge, then hard streak the rest of the way. On melees, I try not to solo as much, but if there aren't many people on, I solo elite streak to L12 or 13 quests, then hard streak the rest of the way since hard is generally not that much tougher than normal.

A 1st life character really has no need to elite streak, even hard streaking you will be skipping a lot of quests due to xp capping if you are using a greater tome, voice, etc. It's not until L17+ you will probably have to repeat quests a few times to hit L20, but that's mostly because a lot of the high level quests have **** xp so you're better off repeating the few good ones.

[trapmana]

back to the original point there is a problem (yes some people are in denial but im assuming there ether worried they will lose the streak xp entirely or tend to play multi lifed tr's or have access to a group they regularly play with that caps each others levels)

having acknowledged there's an issue the important thing to do is to fix it been thinking about this all day and have had the following idea.

allow people to go and visit the vampire in house j (or an equivalent ship buff crewman) who applys a remove on death only buff this buff grants you plus a stacking xp bonus based on a streak increaseing at a rate of (1% per normal 3% per hard or 5% per elite) completed it dose not get reset buy doing a normal or hard but in stead is lost if you die each time you add a new streak stack you take a level drain (ignoring immunity's being as its volunteer based)

this would firstly provide a challenge for the over geared or multi lifers to whom elite quests are pretty basic and easy it would require real bravery to build and maintain and would probably lead to a variation in difficulty setting do to increasing death risks.

can any one see a problem with this? it seems to me more fitting to the idea of bravery than the current set up (constructive comments only please looking to find a fix before i see more new players quit

[Purgatorii]

back to the original point there is a problem (yes some people are in denial but im assuming there ether worried they will lose the streak xp entirely or tend to play multi lifed tr's or have access to a group they regularly play with that caps each others levels)

having acknowledged there's an issue the important thing to do is to fix it been thinking about this all day and have had the following idea.

allow people to go and visit the vampire in house j (or an equivalent ship buff crewman) who applys a remove on death only buff this buff grants you plus a stacking xp bonus based on a streak increaseing at a rate of (1% per normal 3% per hard or 5% per elite) completed it dose not get reset buy doing a normal or hard but in stead is lost if you die each time you add a new streak stack you take a level drain (ignoring immunity's being as its volunteer based)

this would firstly provide a challenge for the over geared or multi lifers to whom elite quests are pretty basic and easy it would require real bravery to build and maintain and would probably lead to a variation in difficulty setting do to increasing death risks.

can any one see a problem with this? it seems to me more fitting to the idea of bravery than the current set up (constructive comments only please looking to find a fix before i see more new players quit

I'm not trying to dump on your thread, but you're just WAY out there with this. You think elite streaking is easy for a TR because we have super awesome gear and we're just waaaay better than everyone else because of our awesome TRness?

The quests don't seem challenging to us because we've run them all a hundred million times and we know what to do to remain safe during the quests.

I started a first life Drow sorc a couple months ago and elite streaked it from 1-16 in a little under a day. Went through VON elites at lv8 with 119 max hp, never died once in any of the quests in the chain, not even against the Inevitable, and this was before they removed his initial explosion.

Being a TR doesn't make you a God. It gives you 36 point build (+1 extra point to 2 stats of your choice over 32 point build, remember, 2 points in a stat only gives +1) and it gives us early access to Greensteel items we may have crafted in previous lives once we hit lv 11.

And I just don't understand what you're trying to accomplish with the suggested mechanic? Is it so you can build streak bonus on norms? I'm really just missing the point I guess. I'm not trying to knock your idea, I just think you're putting an awfully large (and incorrect) amount of emphasis on how much supposed power you get from being a TR.

I'm not trying to knock your idea but I just don't understand why you feel it would be better than the current system. If you feel like it would make us run more Hards and Norms as TRs, you're wrong. We're still going to run elites the first time we run a quest to get the max amplification of the first time bonus and stack it with the one time only streak bonus. We're doing it because we want to hit 20 in a DECENTLY quick fashion, and it takes us 4.2 million experience.

[trapmana]

you do seem to have missed the points i am trying to make.

what i am saying is that i found players who are entirely new to the game are forced to run elite or are left to solo things which after about lv 6 are not practical.

they do not have hand me down gear and would not be able to afford ah prices for some time.

they do not get the chance to learn a quest especially regarding trap locations due to the increased dc'ed assuming superior gear (i have 21 characters and yes it is much much easier to do traps with higher base stats exceptional skill bonuses and plus 10 or higher skill boost items than is is with out them).

as a tr my dc's saves and hp are higher there for the content is easier. I've been there and done that and brought the tea shirt there fore am well aware what was challenging as a first lifer ungeared toon is a cake walk for a tr with a gear repository to draw upon.

as for your drow sorc pls dont fibb a lv8 drow sorc with 119 max hp i think not not as a first lifer any way your base hp assuming a con of 14 (the highest you can have with out gimping charisma) gives you a base of 68 hp even with a plus 4 con items and a plus 10 false life item that only gives 94 hp and as a first lifer with out gear from other toons where would you increase this via?

no i dont want a to build a streak in normals what i want to do is prevent the following ongoing issues

in which people will not take part in quests due to there streak (not because they dis like the quest but purely due to a fear of streak loss)

where the level range for a quest has been reduced by 2/3rds there by making its harder to find a party suitable for your level range (and please don't say open on as as soon as a member joins out side the 2 level limit half the others will leave)

where it is imposable to get a non elite run of a quest even if xp isn't the goal due to streak retention issues (such as flagging or loot objectives)

where people are punished for taking part in a non elite quest to help out there guild members

i am well aware that multi life toons have issues with the amount of exp needed to reach 20 what i am suggesting is that the current system creates a lot of problems there for it would be wise to look at alternative ideas to reduce or eliminate these problems

i am well aware that the streak system has encouraged the running of a wider variation of quests (i believe this to be a good thing)

what i want is to propose ideas for a system where by the good parts can be retained but the bad parts avoided.

to continue in this theme let me ad another possibility what if quests could be level set in the same way as challenges this means people can set the content to the level there party is capable of with out worrying about losing a streak bonus(<<<this is a constructive comment )

i want mega exp dont care about any one else. omg some one wants to nerf my xp i havent read what they wrote but instead of putting up an idea im going to make out like its oh so easy for me and they must suck.(<< not a constructive comment)

[wolfy42]

Simple solution that should have been implemented along time ago.


Instead of breaking a BB bonus when you do a quest on a lower difficulty level, reduce it by 1 for each difficulty level lower then your bonus.


So if you have an elite streak going, and you do a quest on normal....your BB streak would reduce by 2. If you did it on hard the streak would be reduced by 1.

That would make it very easy to keep up an elite streak though.....but you could always double or tripple the penalty...allowing players to do the occasional quest on a lower difficulty level while still maintaining a full streak bonus.

so make it -4 for doing a quest on hard and -6 for doing it on normal or something. Which means you could only do 1 quest on lower then elite every 4 or 6 times..and keep your full bonus.

Minimum is 0 though (no negative streaks heh).

So...say your on korthos island for instance. A player could now do all the other quests on korthos on elite...then do redemption on hard....and end up with a 3 elite streak bonus (7-4)...after they were done. If they went to the harbor and ran a few very easy quests (haverdasher + bringing the light for instance) on elite...they could then do redemption on hard and keep a full 5 elite streak bonus afterwards.

By the time you get to the mid to higher level quests you could have 4-5 banked (non-elite) quests without losing your streak all together.

Anyway it depends a bit on my char, but honestly pre-14 lvl quests are just plain easier to solo. Faster, less risk of a death, and I can take breaks any time I want etc.

That has nothing at all to do with the streak bonuses (although I do them all on elite), but everything to do with how easy the quests are at low lvl (especially with some chars like a sorc) and how hard/random pugs are to get together.

A good pug can be fun, a bad one can ruin your day fast.

[Narmolanya]

as for your drow sorc pls dont fibb a lv8 drow sorc with 119 max hp i think not not as a first lifer any way your base hp assuming a con of 14 (the highest you can have with out gimping charisma) gives you a base of 68 hp even with a plus 4 con items and a plus 10 false life item that only gives 94 hp and as a first lifer with out gear from other toons where would you increase this via?

Level 8 Drow Sorc

CON: 14
CHAR: 20

Toughness Feat Level 1

Racial Toughness 1 & 2

HP: 98

98+5(lesser false life)+16(+4 con)= 119

[Talon_Moonshadow]

My experience has been, that "most" players "do" want the streak (XP)....
... but, IMO, most players are not really ready to do tougher quests on elite.

Many players realise that struggling through a quest on elite is not much fun.
so if it is their LFM, they are cautious about doing elite... especially if they failed before.

But, there is also a large number of players that refuse to do any quest on a lower difficulty.
... whether they are ready for it or not.

These guys frustrate other players....
They bully them into doing elite.
They refuse to join, so that the group takes forever to fill.

Many groups fail before they even start.

These that do elite and are not ready for it break up...with barely a word and assumed bad feelings.
(and for some reason it is usually the guy who insisted on doing elite that is the first to drop group...)



Personally, I find the game a whole lot more fun if you just play it... and do not worry about how much XP you are getting.

I do like elite.
I like favor.
I like the streak bonus to xp.
I like a challenge.

But... I'm a six year vet.
I can handle it.

Many others cannot.

I prefer to play at whatever level gives the most fun for everyone involved...

and I really hate it when people drop after a wipe. :(

[trapmana]

whats your plus 4 con item narm?

and talon ild love to play to enjoy the game i did so for 3 years now a days im waiting for nothing
there for no longer actually getting to play. yes i could solo but it defeats the point of an mmo.

i just want to run the quests at a setting the party is capable of rather than waste hours wait for a party that will never form.

or waste hours with party members unable to complete the quest.

i say hours but lately its been days or weeks i only have 4 hours to play per day due to work etc so this streak obsession is really killing the game.

zero complete quests in a week is just crazy.

[Kanuk]

Maybe a middle ground solution would work: When you'd break your streak under the current system, make it just decrease by 1 on both counters instead. Optionally, VIPs could get a slight bonus in a similar way, maybe have their counter decrease only from the second run on.

This, this, and this again!
People would be more open minded to “break” their streak if its faster/easier to build it up again.

[HunkyDane]

I must say, on my first life toons I prefer normals or hards, I might join an elite at level quest if I'm confident I can handle it, otherwise I do normal or hard.

I have not experienced the lack of willing people to group with on normal or hard, quite contrary, I have hosted and joined many pugs on normal or hard.

When no one joins what quest I would love to run, I usually go out in some exploration area primed for my level (as they are so much easier to handle no matter toon, build, etc.).

I also know of quite a few guilds who is more than willing to run normal or hards.

Lately I have grapped newer people for pugs, shown them quests on normal, the went and tried same quest on hard and elite, lots find that fun and interesting.

I would look around on your server for guilds with likeminded people to yourself, or perhaps try to find a few steady people to run quests with (I run a lot with 2 friends, and we tend to goof around as much as go seriously through quests).