Suggestion- Don't Release Update 15

[Shmuel]

As The title says. I for one would love to see an announcement to the effect of:


Update 15 has been postponed for at least 2 months so that developers can first finish fixing bugs form update 14, and then make certain that update 15 is mostly bug free upon release.

I am really dreading the release of the new update because I think another hastily rushed out update, full of bugs, could do even more damage to the game. It would make me feel much more confident in Turbine if they finished the stuff they already have out here before trying to add even more. I would even go so far as to say it might encourage me to spend MORE money in the DDO store.

We don't need any new content at the moment nearly as much as we need the existing content to work properly.

[cedad]

It doesn't work that way...
Turbine and DDO does not have only one dev team working on the game but several working on different project.
Postponing the release of U15 finished by dev team 2 won't speed up the work of the dev team 1 working on fixing bug on U14.
As it's shown by :

Currently, I am working on the treasure in Update 16 and 17.

[ZeebaNeighba]

You know...u15 has a huge amount of bug fixes planned as it is.

And the people making new content are not the ones fixing bugs...you can't just tell them to switch jobs like that. Maybe tell them to take their time and make sure their new content is flawless, but you're not going to see graphics designers fixing Healer's Friend or something.

[THAC0]

IMO... They really can't delay an Update (though I like your suggestion). As mentioned, different groups area working on different stages of the Update. Then they move on to the next task for the next Update. In cases like U14 where there are a lot of issues... QA and Devs are likely splitting tasks...both for the current release, and the stuff on Mourlands (which will eventually get on Lama).

I'm not gonna beat the Devs up on this... they get enough of that from the masses here. I'd like to see a bit more time in testing prior to release. U14 was pretty big...and thus... pretty big bugs appeared.

Maybe they should consider adjusting their release calendar, but I doubt that they will consider this as an option. There are 3 things which affect the success of a project when there is a time constraint (which they have put on themselves): Time (adjust it to reflect reality of when the project/release can be completed), People (get more to help meet the timeline), and Money (adjust the budget so you can get the resources needed people/equipment/whatever, to get the project/release done).

Having control over 2 of those variables will usually get a project to succeed. Having control only on 1, it will fail. Having all 3, is rare and would in a perfect world meet all expectations and be a fantastic day in DDO. :) Lately, it seems that DDO is only controlling the Time variable, just my thought from the outside...

Welp, just sharing my opinion on this.

T.

[Rian]

Nope.

Personally, I want the next new shiny thing.

[CaptainSpacePony]

Do, ah samy, DOoooOOo))0000oo)mM!!!!1111!! that is.

U15 will be filled with Chicken Hawks!

[dterror]

OP has every right to ask for the content he has already bought to be working as it should. I don't know how to make a car, but if I bought a brand new one and the transmission didn't work, I would rightly ask for it to be repaired.

I'd ask that without the expectation of being sold a new cup holder and a leather seat upgrade and then being told I wasn't allowed to complain because I have no idea how to make cars on a supply chain.

The OP isn't just asking for the content he already has to be working as it should. He's asking for the entire R&D dept at the auto maker to be shut down while the local repair shop that is handling the warranty work on the faulty transmission to finish fixing the problem

[Coldin]

Considering part of Update 15 will be to implement bug fixes....this suggestion really doesn't make sense. Delaying Update 15 will just delay those fixes.

[Mathermune]

The OP isn't just asking for the content he already has to be working as it should. He's asking for the entire R&D dept at the auto maker to be shut down while the local repair shop that is handling the warranty work on the faulty transmission to finish fixing the problem

Ha, brilliant! +1 for a snappy, related analogy.

Not sure he's complaining to that extent, but point taken. He's still allowed to complain though, which should be the point to take away from my post. "You can't code, you can't complain" is a frankly terrible attitude.

[Dwarfo]

There's ALOT of bug fixes planned for U15, as shown by the devs interaction in the U14 bug thread.

New content isn't bad either, the FR quests are really fun.

[Khimberlhyte]

Signed. They should not release it. It should be forced to escape on its own.

U15 should have to fight and claw its own way onto the live servers. That is how we will know that it is a worthy update. No more coddling of game releases, delivering them on a fixed schedule.

[Crazeee]

If it's not a bug that makes them lose money, they will push out a new release before they fix existing bugs. C.R.E.A.M.

[Qnevven]

Don't forget that U15 will also bring U14 available to purchase via ddostore.
A lot of players (VIP included) didn't buy pre-purchase bundles of the expansion and are looking forward for that release

Since U15 doesn't change any mechanics in the game (save for the bugfixes) there is no risk that it will generate game-wide bugs so all you doomsayers are wrong saying it will cause much trouble

so what can we expect from U15?

- new quests - yay! (+)
- monster manual - yay! (+)
- bug fixes of current contents - yay! (+)
- MoTU being available to buy via TP - yay! (+++)
- some potential new bugs - limited to new quests only (-)

There are more PROs than CONs.

Also note that like some people already stated - there were are different developing teams involved in different tasks / updates...
People working on new quests are unlikely to work on Epic Destinies etc

[Shmuel]

I appreciate folks may have different opinions then me.

I don't necessarily appreciate being told that if I don't have experience and understanding of how teams of programmers work on IT projects that I have no business making such a suggestion. For the record- I have ZERO training in IT or computrer programming and no idea how the 'teams' may be organized/arranged. I am, however, trained as a systems ecologist (yes the actual outdoors).

In complex systems, (whether they are jungles, coral reefs, societies, economies, or MMO environments) understanding individual aspects of the system and being able to effectively manipulate them and understand how those manipulations will affect the rest of the system becomes exponentially more complex the more variables there are in the system.

So essentially this means that bugs will be significantly harder to eradicate as more and more new code gets added to the system, just like ecosystems are much harder to understand/manipulate/fix/exploit as they have additional variables (new species, pollution, extinctions, changing weather patterns etc.).

So adding new content is likely to have an impact on the ability to remove bugs without having the "fixes" for those bugs affect other aspects of the game. This is why I would like to see the bugs fixed before new content is added.

Yes, some types of content, such as new game mechanics, are likely to have a BIGGER effect on the system than others, such as changing graphic skins or adding quests using existing mechanics, but anything new is bound to make the system more complex and difficult to manage, at least a little.

perhaps I stated my suggestion improperly. I do think that the MOTU stuff should be available for purchase ASAP, ideally in JUNE OF 2012, and that all the planned bug fixes and more should move forward.

I would like to NOT SEE anything NEW to the game until existing bugs are resolved. That include no monster manual, no new quests, etc. Call the bug fixes and the store release of the content update 15, update 14.3, module 24, or whatever, that is just semantics.

Would doing this likely mean that some of the more time-efficient/less bug-causing teams at development would essentially have to twiddle their thumbs for awhile? Probably yes. Maybe they should spend some time playing the game, cause I get the impression that very few actually do to any meaningful degree.

feel free to disagree. this is my opinion.

[Miow]

Whomever is doing the testing and the fixing just need to do a better job in the future or they might ruin the game. If there is too much to do then perhaps they need to re-evaluate their structure/positions and get more people to do it. If that's not an option than loudi scou dou to u.

[Siro]

- some potential new bugs - limited to new quests only (-)

Look well ye peoples. This is what is called an Optimist.

[azrael4h]

The OP isn't just asking for the content he already has to be working as it should. He's asking for the entire R&D dept at the auto maker to be shut down while the local repair shop that is handling the warranty work on the faulty transmission to finish fixing the problem

Chrysler shut down an entire plant to fix a pre-production glitch in an engine line not long ago, and some years back, they devoted an entire R&D team entirely to redesigning, sometimes multiple times daily, the A604 transmission in order to get rid of the early production issues that plagued it.

[dterror]

I appreciate folks may have different opinions then me.

I don't necessarily appreciate being told that if I don't have experience and understanding of how teams of programmers work on IT projects that I have no business making such a suggestion. For the record- I have ZERO training in IT or computrer programming and no idea how the 'teams' may be organized/arranged. I am, however, trained as a systems ecologist (yes the actual outdoors).

In complex systems, (whether they are jungles, coral reefs, societies, economies, or MMO environments) understanding individual aspects of the system and being able to effectively manipulate them and understand how those manipulations will affect the rest of the system becomes exponentially more complex the more variables there are in the system.

So essentially this means that bugs will be significantly harder to eradicate as more and more new code gets added to the system, just like ecosystems are much harder to understand/manipulate/fix/exploit as they have additional variables (new species, pollution, extinctions, changing weather patterns etc.).

So adding new content is likely to have an impact on the ability to remove bugs without having the "fixes" for those bugs affect other aspects of the game. This is why I would like to see the bugs fixed before new content is added.

Yes, some types of content, such as new game mechanics, are likely to have a BIGGER effect on the system than others, such as changing graphic skins or adding quests using existing mechanics, but anything new is bound to make the system more complex and difficult to manage, at least a little.

perhaps I stated my suggestion improperly. I do think that the MOTU stuff should be available for purchase ASAP, ideally in JUNE OF 2012, and that all the planned bug fixes and more should move forward.

I would like to NOT SEE anything NEW to the game until existing bugs are resolved. That include no monster manual, no new quests, etc. Call the bug fixes and the store release of the content update 15, update 14.3, module 24, or whatever, that is just semantics.

Would doing this likely mean that some of the more time-efficient/less bug-causing teams at development would essentially have to twiddle their thumbs for awhile? Probably yes. Maybe they should spend some time playing the game, cause I get the impression that very few actually do to any meaningful degree.

feel free to disagree. this is my opinion.

Comparing a computer program to a natural environment doesn't work. Add a new variable to a natural environment, and likely it will eventually effect all other variables in some way. Computer programs don't work that way. Programs are more like writing a book. Add a new chapter to the book, and it will not affect the vast bulk of the prior chapters in the book...but there's the chance some of the information or storyline in the new chapter might contradict certain select portions of one or two previous chapters. These contradictions would be the bugs in a computer program. Add another new chapter to the book and it may or may not have new, different contradictions.
The computer program is akin to new chapters being written by authors while proofreaders and editors correct and modify the previously written chapters. New chapters can still be added to the book while the proofreaders and editors work on ways to fix previous contradictions with no need at all to slow down or cease the work of the authors creating the new chapters.

[Certon]

They NEED to release this content. High level epics need more dungeons (hopefully better than the second and third sets of adventures for FR--man, it looked like they were in a hurry. They gotta go back and tune those quests up, pronto!)

Bugs need fixing too, but content is king.

What worries me is the itemization. Not enough variety. Sure, there are some really powerful and cool items, but overall, I believe most of them are, 'meh.'

[Ravoc-DDO]

The request "Don't Release Update ##" comes back every update, and each time it will fall on deaf ears. Don't forget Turbine is owned by Warner Bros. And as with all big companies, they want releases (quantity). In what form or shape it comes (quality) is much much less of a concern...

[Rian]

Well... They could go back to the old times where nobody knows when the next update comes out. You just grind the end game til you finally get bored with the game.

[Galeria]

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein

Insanity:A freaking giant greatsword with a nice damage profile
Buddy the Barbarian

A man should look for what is, and not for what he thinks should be.
Albert Einstein

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
Albert Einstein


Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction.
Albert Einstein

[Jasparion]

Nope.

Personally, I want the next new shiny thing.

I want this the day after the bulk of the really annoying bugs are fixed.

If this is U15 then excellent.

[lugoman]

The OP isn't just asking for the content he already has to be working as it should. He's asking for the entire R&D dept at the auto maker to be shut down while the local repair shop that is handling the warranty work on the faulty transmission to finish fixing the problem

If the R&D dept was worth anything there wouldnt be so many problems with the car in the first place so maybe it should be shut down. U14 was a huge update, so maybe the amount of bugs isnt too surprising. Laying U15 on top of such a shaky foundation doesnt seem like a good idea to me.

[Talias006]

I have seen the same reaction to many other Updates/Modules.
It's always the same, don't release X until Y is fixed.

Here's the part that really makes me laugh... it's ALWAYS been like this.
Bugs are not new to MMOs in general, much less this one.

To think that they will stop what they do (release new content) JUST to fix bugs (in old content) is somewhat naive.
Bugs in MMOs are a constant.
We will never see DDO completely bug free.

Other MMO's make a lot more than DDO, but even they are not free of bugs.
To think it's a matter of hiring more people is ludicrous.

If you are overly concerned with bugs in the given environment, perhaps it is just that you need to take a break.
I can't guarantee any bugs you encounter today will be gone by the time you come back, but guess what?
There will be other bugs that have risen to the fore in the meantime.

I do not write this to tick people off (pun intended).