PRR and DR which is applied first?

[legendlore]

Is Physical resistance rating applied before or after Damage resistance?

Trying to get a hang of the new AC/damage mitigation system for a build and it seems that the order of this can make quite the difference in damage mitigation so if anyone knows I'd be much obliged.

Thanks

[QNecron]

Would be nice to know... I don't think they ever explained which one applies first or at all if your DR exceeded it.


What build if I may ask? I've been playing with AC/PRR while leveling with a friend and so far nothing I've come up with is even remotely "tanky" - color me not impressed I guess lol.

Mine is a Dwarven Stalwart (lvl 5) utilizing Battle Fullplate/Tower Shield, Shield Master, socketing Nat and Deflect, and Expertise (fairly standard Stalwart in the making). Can get to 51 AC, standing at 73% defensive rating and have 21 PRR as well as 20% Concealment from trinket and I literally get beat down in every dungeon like a red-headed step child. I just got to 5 so I can at least slot Moderate Fort so I shouldn't be crit on nearly as much but this has yet to be seen.

Perhaps I'm doing something wrong lol, which is why I ask what you intend on trying.

[Darkrok]

Would be nice to know... I don't think they ever explained which one applies first or at all if your DR exceeded it.


What build if I may ask? I've been playing with AC/PRR while leveling with a friend and so far nothing I've come up with is even remotely "tanky" - color me not impressed I guess lol.

Mine is a Dwarven Stalwart (lvl 5) utilizing Battle Fullplate/Tower Shield, Shield Master, socketing Nat and Deflect, and Expertise (fairly standard Stalwart in the making). Can get to 51 AC, standing at 73% defensive rating and have 21 PRR as well as 20% Concealment from trinket and I literally get beat down in every dungeon like a red-headed step child. I just got to 5 so I can at least slot Moderate Fort so I shouldn't be crit on nearly as much but this has yet to be seen.

Perhaps I'm doing something wrong lol, which is why I ask what you intend on trying.

Fortification will change a ton for you as will the first tier of the PrE. My level 8 with similar stats definitely feels 'tanky' but he has heavy fort. It's like night and day.

[legendlore]

What build if I may ask? I've been playing with AC/PRR while leveling with a friend and so far nothing I've come up with is even remotely "tanky" - color me not impressed I guess lol.


It's kind of an experiment build (I like arcane melees so I'm tr:ing my bard (that's currently a wizard)), so I'm trying to get the facts first. It's a Wizard 13 / Artificer 6 / Fighter 1 build. It will be able to cast in full plate with out arcane spell failure and I'm going to have both Shield mastery feats so while it won't be Defender good AC/PRR it will be some, the question is if it'll be good enough to hold its own with death auras.

If I like it and it works I'll likely work my way to Unyielding sentinel as Epic destiny for some better PRR and health.

[SaneDitto]

The gist I get (according to combat logs) is that PRR applies before DR.

Also, note the fortification-bypassing mobs, which can make 75% feel a lot less.

Good luck on your build. :)

[QNecron]

Fortification will change a ton for you as will the first tier of the PrE. My level 8 with similar stats definitely feels 'tanky' but he has heavy fort. It's like night and day.

Hehe, I had a Stalwart III with 80AC and 90PRR and didn't feel tanky. Night and day happened when u14 hit and my damage intake increase drastically, so much so that I required a healer even on Hard. He was built for the "old" AC way so I thought I would try again.

Also to note 100% Fort doesn't cover everything nowadays, Rogues can bypass it and I've been crit on several times by Trolls on my Paladin. I always checked to see if maybe something happened and I lost my 100% Fort but it was still there :( I'm not quite sure that us WAI but to be perfectly honest I stopped caring some time ago lol.

To the OP:

Keep in mind you will not get the full effect (if there is such a thing) of PRR as Wizards are only 1/2 BAB and Arty is only 3/4(? I believe). My Warchanter was only able to get to 20 or so last life which literally did nothing for me and she wore Medium armors. Maybe you will get more out of a Fullplate but I suspect not. Best bet is to use Blur or Displacement.

Very interesting build though, do you plan on using Mithral Fullplate? If so remember they are broke and only offer PRR equal to medium armors.

[zarthak]

i think its DR then PRR

[legendlore]

The gist I get (according to combat logs) is that PRR applies before DR.

My experience was that PRR never appeared in the combat log at all, but I hope you're right. I'll likely try out the build and see if I can crunch the numbers to figure it out :)

Edit;

i think its DR then PRR
This is what I'm afraid of, it would make DR pretty pointless for high damage hits (if you have PRR). On the other hand it might be to good the other way around.

[SaneDitto]

I refer to combat logs because they do the usual "Mob deals X damage to you after Y has been reduced by damage reduction", so my assumption is that the PRR is working "behind the scenes" before DR is applied, since I'm fairly sure VoD!Suulomades on hard doesn't normally deal 40-50 damage. :D

[legendlore]

PRR is working "behind the scenes" before DR is applied, since I'm fairly sure VoD!Suulomades on hard doesn't normally deal 40-50 damage. :D

Nice, sounds like you're right from those numbers, thanks

[Ungood]

I was wondering the same thing. So I ran some tests on it.

Using the PvP Arena, and Cloth Armor as a base, I had a friend hit me. I noticed that after equipping Plate Armor, the overall physical damage was reduced., but no mention of it was made in the combat log.

I then use Adamitite Plate armor to see how DR applied to the situation. The PRR was not mentioned but the DR was.

Thus, the way it works is that PRR is applied first, and simply take a % less total incoming damage, then DR is applied to whatever remains.

I only tested this with Plate Armors, I did not use shields, but I would wager that the shield PRR would apply just like the Armor PRR with DR applying after the fact.

Hope this helps.

[Orratti]

Does anyone have a tank feeling toon? Or does strapping on some heavy plate and and a fort item make anyone a tank. With everyone possibly having the same chances of getting missed is there a need for any tank types at all? Can you ignore aggro control now as long as the mob stays where you want them?

[QuantumFX]

It’s probably a cut and paste of how Energy Resistances interact with Energy Absorption.

You subtract the Energy Resistance from the initial damage and then the remainder is reduced by the Absorption amount. The devs wanted to make sure that you took some damage.

However, since PRR doesn’t have the multiplicative issues that Energy Absorption has, it would probably be better for it to apply after the percentage reduction. It would make the smaller DR amounts slightly more effective on a high PRR tank.

[legendlore]

I was wondering the same thing. So I ran some tests on it.
/../
Hope this helps.

Absolutely, thanks.



It’s probably a cut and paste of how Energy Resistances interact with Energy Absorption.

Makes sense, thanks.


Thanks for the great answers everyone, took the plunge and is currently leveling my build while the xp boost is running and will see how it works out :)