Chest Tracker

[V_mad_jester_V]

I think they need to add a tracker much like WoW for the guild chest. Essentially when the guild vault was open on WoW you can see who has made deposits and who has been doing the withdraws. This will allow guild members to see if people are equally taking as they are putting into the chest or are there single members just raiding the chest. Maybe said member dont even need the equipment but raids the chest to make some plat. For my guild thats not the purpose of the chest being there. it is there to outfit guildies who need the eqiupment, not for theives to take and steal it. While i do believe in the honor system, i also believe there will always be bad eggs who do nothing but take but not contribute. This system will also allow guild members to pass out officer status when they get to see who has made attempts to contribute to the guild.

Same should go for the guild ship vendors. Guild leaders should be given an option to see what members has deposited plat/diamonds. Again to see who is putting forth alot of effort into the guild.

This isn't meant as a way of isolating members (although in more a hole built guilds this will happen) but instead is used to see whose doing what with plat donations and equipment donations.

As it stands we put tons of essences into the guild chest, but were not sure if the guild crafter is getting all the essences or not, and if someone who isnt suppose to have said essences are actually using them to craft or turning a profit.

People can say "trade" him the essences but thats too much work waiting for him to get online and find him while he's not in a group and questing. Others may suggest mailing essences but thats overly time consuming having to mail out essences in their respective stacks.

[Flavilandile]

Well this is DDO, not WoW.

if you can't trust people with a guild chest, make one or more free account and track guild hoard through a website.

That's how my guild has worked for ages... and is still working that way, we tried the chest, but it was filled with trash faster than we could empty it.

[V_mad_jester_V]

Well this is DDO, not WoW.

if you can't trust people with a guild chest, make one or more free account and track guild hoard through a website.

That's how my guild has worked for ages... and is still working that way, we tried the chest, but it was filled with trash faster than we could empty it.

While i understand this isn't WoW i felt it was one of the greater tools they had in it. The ability to track peoples deposits/withdrawls gave me a chance to wanna promote folks or keep them at current rank, or boot em (if their raiding the chest). Our guild website dose set guidelines to who puts trash into it, and it would be nice to see whoes putting said trash into so i can individually talk to each member or have an officer to address it to said member.

[Xynot2]

While i understand this isn't WoW i felt it was one of the greater tools they had in it. The ability to track peoples deposits/withdrawls gave me a chance to wanna promote folks or keep them at current rank, or boot em (if their raiding the chest). Our guild website dose set guidelines to who puts trash into it, and it would be nice to see whoes putting said trash into so i can individually talk to each member or have an officer to address it to said member.

The phrase, *This isn't WoW* isnt just a comparative statement. It's a statement of defiance against WoW and not wanting this game to be anything like it.

Sorry but you should be able to trust your companions not to steal your stuff. If you cant, you have a few options. Shared bank, mule toons, a second account just for storage or any combination of those. Too many things get broken when Turbine starts messing with things that dont need fixing.

/not signed

[Gawna]

If WoW is so awesome, you should go play that.

/not signed

I feel kinda dirty for agreeing with Xynot.

[Phidius]

The idea of being in a guild with people that I wouldn't give the chain mail off my back to is weird. However, I understand that Turbine expects people to join a guild just for the benefits of the ship buffs, so I can see the OP's point.

When people joined guilds simply to enjoy the company of the people in the guild, this wasn't a problem. Now it is.

[dubyprime]

Well this is DDO, not WoW.

if you can't trust people with a guild chest, make one or more free account and track guild hoard through a website.

That's how my guild has worked for ages... and is still working that way, we tried the chest, but it was filled with trash faster than we could empty it.

Shared accounts are against the Terms of Service.

[Terminus-Est]

My 2 cents; transactions are already tracked in game, otherwise you couldn't do them. Making that information visible to players when it useful (like here) is simply logical.

Most MMOs that I have played, have guilds. Some of them have shared item storage for said guilds. Of those that do, DDO is the only one I've played that doesn't have some kind of tracking method -and- a system to set up tiers of access.

Simply put, DDO has always lagged behind in supporting its player-run organizations; the introduction of guild airships and shrines was a huge jump forward, but I haven't seen any development on this front after that, despite the variety of options tried along this vein in the industry as a whole.

Being unique does not excuse being primitive. I <3 DDO. I would <3 it more with more on industry-par technology in its various systems.

[SlyMagi]

As they are, guild chests are a waste of time. we gave them up with in weeks of them being created. Players would join our guild raid the chest and then not play that character until the chest was full at which time the player would come on, raid the chest and again not play.

I suspect this player was doing this with several guilds at once to make bank in an easy roguelike manner.

How about Items going into the chest ending up bound to Guild. Or make it to where you can bind Items to your guild and then only let them be sold by leadership.

as far as essences etc. get a bag from jorasco and send it to the crafter full and have the crafter send it back.... I know its a big hassle but t least the crafter gets them.

Guild Chests are a waste of time.

[Flavilandile]

Shared accounts are against the Terms of Service.

Who said the account was shared ? we have a officer that is willing to do it.
( and actually, in our case it's not a F2P account but a VIP account... so it definitely cannot be shared )

[shadereaper33]

You know, it comes to mind that if you have people in your guild that you don't trust, maybe they shouldn't be in your guild. Then again, I am in a small guild of people that I trust, and have generally been that way since I started playing MMO'S. Also, if it is that big of a concern, you could always just use the special access chest for important things, and the regular chest for random semi-useful stuff.

[dubyprime]

Who said the account was shared ? we have a officer that is willing to do it.
( and actually, in our case it's not a F2P account but a VIP account... so it definitely cannot be shared )

No one did. I just assumed based on the post comparing it to a solution to guild chests.

[redspecter23]

When my guild had the chest on the boat, loads of people put stuff in and nobody took it out. The storage space was so minimal that people had to come by and clean it out just to put more stuff in that nobody took. I find the guild chest to be a waste of a slot. If it had 200+ storage spaces, maybe it could actually be used for "storage" of some kind, but it was just not worth it.

I guess maybe we were using it wrong. Every time I put something in the chest it was me getting rid of it. If anyone took it for any reason, I didn't concern myself with it. If you have a guild chest and don't want guildies taking things from it then eventually the players you want taking things from it (the good guys) stop taking things at all out of fear of being booted and the bad players just keep raiding the loot. It may end up that players that do take things from the chest end up looking like they are chest raiding simply because "the good guys" don't take anything at all for the reasons outlined above.

[V_mad_jester_V]

When my guild had the chest on the boat, loads of people put stuff in and nobody took it out. The storage space was so minimal that people had to come by and clean it out just to put more stuff in that nobody took. I find the guild chest to be a waste of a slot. If it had 200+ storage spaces, maybe it could actually be used for "storage" of some kind, but it was just not worth it.

I guess maybe we were using it wrong. Every time I put something in the chest it was me getting rid of it. If anyone took it for any reason, I didn't concern myself with it. If you have a guild chest and don't want guildies taking things from it then eventually the players you want taking things from it (the good guys) stop taking things at all out of fear of being booted and the bad players just keep raiding the loot. It may end up that players that do take things from the chest end up looking like they are chest raiding simply because "the good guys" don't take anything at all for the reasons outlined above.



You know, it comes to mind that if you have people in your guild that you don't trust, maybe they shouldn't be in your guild. Then again, I am in a small guild of people that I trust, and have generally been that way since I started playing MMO'S. Also, if it is that big of a concern, you could always just use the special access chest for important things, and the regular chest for random semi-useful stuff.

okay i can 2 birds one stone here

i dont do all my recruiting, even as the guild leader, my officers pull people in. Many a times when my officers pull people in those are the people who dont stay long. Those are the people im worried about chest raiding, and would like to know for future reference. On my server im friends with some of the high leveled guilds leader (staal ysta, goodfellows, and a few more) it would be nice to be able to talk to them and be like, "hey such and such just joined my guild raided the chest then gquit you dont want this guy in your guild"

I trust my current members, but for those members that were brought in the guild that im not sure will stay and be loyal, i am always dubius. Not 100% of the people on the game are going to be honest folks, and if you believe they are send me w/e your smoking cuz i would like a hit of that optimism. While yes i should trust my guildies and i do, i dont trust new recruits.


another option i thought of to this is increase the amount of ranks achievable in the guild.

Recruit - cant add people to the guild, cant use guild chest, cant buy ship buffs
Member - cant add people to the guild, can use guild chest, can buy ship buffs
officers - all current officer perks

[V_mad_jester_V]

oh and there is taking from the chest and excessively taking from the chest. along with

why would a monk take 3k plat piece of non cloth armor outta the chest?
why would a fighter with no divine levels take that healer item from the chest?
why would a druid take full plate from the chest? (to those of you who dont know druids cant wear metal armor)

for the essences, lets say for instance my guildie needed something made our guild crafter cant make, that guildie is more than welcomed to take essences required. Now im not a fool, said guildie dosent need to clean out the entire chest for 1 item to be made. Thats excessive withdrawl from the chest. The highest thing i wanted made was holy wraps of lesser vampirism, and that required like 85 greater mind essences, meaning i dont need to take out the body, good, evil, ect, just the mind essences needed. so if i see reasonable withdrawls from the chest (if they put in a tracker) i'll leave it be, but if i see excessive withdrawls i would like to address it (assuming the guild crafter isnt the one drawing out the massive amount of essences)

[ZeebaNeighba]

It's not all that easy knowing who is raiding the chests and then giving that person the boot. It's pretty easy to raid the chest while no one is looking, also it only takes one active member to have a chest that is always empty no matter how much stuff you put in.

[wonkey]

Totally off topic.

Phidius, your sig quote is awesome!!

That is all.

[Barazon]

Well this is DDO, not WoW.

True. We should not take good ideas from anywhere. If it's not unique to DDO, it doesn't belong here. Should we stop there, or should we look at what other games have done right, and do the opposite?

Edit: The above is my usual sarcasm, directed at the post saying we shouldn't do something because WOW did it.

[V_mad_jester_V]

True. We should not take good ideas from anywhere. If it's not unique to DDO, it doesn't belong here. Should we stop there, or should we look at what other games have done right, and do the opposite?

exactly by trying to take something successful and shun it, is pure stupidity imo. Their successful for a reason, and its better to pull ideas from the successful and put your own twist to it rather than shun it and fail.

Those who are now rich and successful took ideas from the originals who were rich and successful, not shun their ideas.

If other games have done it right, and built toward their success why shouldnt ddo? you dont want it to become guildwars/secret world/WoW i can understand that, but taking some aspects of each of those games will not turn it into those games itself, it will still be DDO

[Flavilandile]

I think the problem with chests are based on what the guild is there for.

There's two cases :
the guild chests that are raided and the following :


When my guild had the chest on the boat, loads of people put stuff in and nobody took it out. The storage space was so minimal that people had to come by and clean it out just to put more stuff in that nobody took. I find the guild chest to be a waste of a slot. If it had 200+ storage spaces, maybe it could actually be used for "storage" of some kind, but it was just not worth it.

Which is what we did encounter in my guild : chest being filled and filled and filled and requiring to be emptied regularly just to be able to put some items in it.

According to what I can guess, the guilds that are in the second case are either made of real life friends playing together or made of people that have been playing together for so long ( before F2P, guild ships an guild chest usually ) that they can be counted as real life friends.

The guilds in the first case are well all the rest of the guild reasons.


I trust my current members, but for those members that were brought in the guild that im not sure will stay and be loyal, i am always dubius.

If you don't trust members of your guild then go with the account thingie or use an officer locked chest.




another option i thought of to this is increase the amount of ranks achievable in the guild.

Recruit - cant add people to the guild, cant use guild chest, cant buy ship buffs
Member - cant add people to the guild, can use guild chest, can buy ship buffs
officers - all current officer perks

Read my first answer : the system is here, it's just FUBAR and has been seeking Dev attention for at least 4 years.
Seems they have better things to do than to fix something that has been broken so long.


True. We should not take good ideas from anywhere. If it's not unique to DDO, it doesn't belong here. Should we stop there, or should we look at what other games have done right, and do the opposite?

I'm not opposed to taking good ideas from anywhere ( as long as they don't break copyright... ).
It's just that there's a lot of suggestion from a few people that would like to make DDO a WoW Clone.
Just look how well SWTOR ( the latest and most blatant WoW Clone ) is doing...

If the Guild chest was 500+ space having a log would be something nice. As it is, for a semi-working short on space chest, there's no point, a lot of the guilds are using guild mule characters held in trust on an officer/Leader account. At best some are using the chest as a filter for the items that ends up in the real guild vault.
IMHO, those that still keep trying to use the chest are still trying to use it because they don't want to put up with the management a real guild vault would entail.

[V_mad_jester_V]

I'm not opposed to taking good ideas from anywhere ( as long as they don't break copyright... ).
It's just that there's a lot of suggestion from a few people that would like to make DDO a WoW Clone.
Just look how well SWTOR ( the latest and most blatant WoW Clone ) is doing...

If the Guild chest was 500+ space having a log would be something nice. As it is, for a semi-working short on space chest, there's no point, a lot of the guilds are using guild mule characters held in trust on an officer/Leader account. At best some are using the chest as a filter for the items that ends up in the real guild vault.
IMHO, those that still keep trying to use the chest are still trying to use it because they don't want to put up with the management a real guild vault would entail.

I dont think they can copyright the idea of a better guild chest system. You cant copyright anything substantial to other games, such as races (although all games can have half orcs they must not have the same lore unique to the game) and their lores, the cities (although you can have eastereggs), story lines (using the same names, but many story lines are the same from game to game, book to book, movie to movie), and stuff like that.

However small things like guild chest system cant exactly be copyrighted, its used in too many games for there to be a copyright present. If its known as guild chest, vault, locker, bank, ect, dosent matter cuz its all the same.

Clans/guilds cant be copyrighted either.

So while i agree they should allow bigger chest, this system in which i ask for wont break any copyright laws.

with entertainment, its hard to copyright other games unless you jack them scene by scene, city by city, npc by npc, ect. Mainly because there are too many universal properties.

also i dont want to have to switch toons thats just a mule to fork over some ****. Personally I like guild chest and the current ones do need revamping, along with guild ranks as well. The current system of member/officer/leader sorta blows.

In secret word and WoW and i do believe CoH/CoV, had a system in which there were multiple tiers to being in a guild starting with
recruit
member
officer
commander
leader

Wow allowed you to add in more tiers if desired, while i believe the other ones limited you, but still offered more rank distinction then member/officer/leader. As it stands i have a SiC and a TiC (second and third in command), and the only way i can make them more distinctive is allow them the ability to spend 250 tp for the gold skull helm in the ddo store. It is indeed a rule in my guild that I as the leader, and my SiC and TiC are the only members able to wear that helm (mainly cuz its the only way to distinguish them from other officers >.>)

[Flavilandile]

if it wasn't FUBAR we would have several ranks in a guild ( 5 or 10 IIRC ) instead of the 3 1/2 we have.

[dng242]

Well this is DDO, not WoW.


True. We should not take good ideas from anywhere. If it's not unique to DDO, it doesn't belong here. Should we stop there, or should we look at what other games have done right, and do the opposite?


Barazon (before his "edit") comment had it right. We need to be xenophobic here!

Though, maybe we could pretend Jester didn't mention WoW and realize it is a fine idea. Not certain I would put it high on the list of things I want, but no reason to hate this list unless you are one of these that puts your trash in the chest or is always taking out the good stuff.

Of course, all the other posts are correct as well. The chest is very limited in its uses (unless you have like an eight man guild, guessing Jester has one around that size).

[RabidKoala]

So what you're saying... is you're in a Thieves Guild.

[Glenalth]

I like the idea of having it at least report to the guild channel.

If people don't like the idea of the reports, it could just be set up on a new contract so you could use the current non-reporting chest or one that informs the guild.