Inspire Recklessness does not stack with other doublestrike sources

[Anthios888]

I giggled to myself when I saw that the tooltips were going to start including information like doublestrike and attack speed. As a veteran of DDO, I'm used to some of the weird counter-intuitive stacking issues like ranger capstone and other melee alacrity.

I thought, I wonder how long it'll be until someone complains about more information being in the game?

But this one really threw me off.



(Effects): You have multiple effects granting a Morale bonus to Doublestrike Chance that do not stack. ( Alchemical Khopesh and Inspire Recklessness )


What seemed to be the best warchanter song, Inspire Recklessness (5% doublestrike, -10% fortification) does not stack with common sources of doublestrike sources, according to both the tooltip and the effects log. Common endgame doublestrike sources include:


Epic Spare Hand (3%)
Alchemical lightning tier II (6%)
Doublestrike 3% and 6% random drop rings and gloves


These are some of the most common dps items - I carry one of these two items on every character who melees.

Other less common sources include

New Caught in the Web Raid Greataxe, Cleaver, Hewer of Suffering (http://ddowiki.com/page/Cleaver,_Hewer_of_Suffering), or Falchion, Breach, The Dividing Blade
Epic Timeblade
Epic Hellstroke Greataxe
Epic Cuthroat's Smallblade
Epic Swashbuckler


For most characters, Inspire Recklessness is a debuff, not a buff.

There have been threads like this one (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=380464) about how bards need more spells, more uber, more this, and more that. We know based on the descriptions that Inspire Excellence would not stack with other exceptional bonuses like Tower rings and epic slots. But at minimum, can't existing the buffs do something?

Screenshots to follow.

[maddmatt70]

I wonder if alchemical and all item effects are bugged and provide a morale bonus to doublestrike when they should provide an untyped bonus or perhaps this tool tip has a bugged description. If these are not the case then this is rough for warchanter melee bards.

[Anthios888]

I'm really glad that we have these tools available, don't get me wrong. For instance, knowing that Hail of Blows for sure stacks with non-monk weapons is really helpful. And now that I know this doesn't stack, I won't be a dummy and use multiple sources of the same bonus. But knowing this really makes the case for melee bards weaker and weaker, as this theoretical doublestrike was one of the main buffs left.

Screenshots

Here is my doublestrike using Drow Khopeshes.

8% total

3% Hail of Blows from Grandmaster of Flowers
5% Inspire Recklessness


http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/5955/drowkhopesh.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/844/drowkhopesh.jpg/)

Here is my doublestrike with one of my Alchemical Khopeshes with Refined Air martial upgrade (6% doublestrike).


9% total

3% Hail of Blows from Grandmaster of Flowers
6% Alchemical Khopesh
0% (non-stacking) Inspire Recklessness


http://img857.imageshack.us/img857/1961/alchemicalstacking.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/857/alchemicalstacking.jpg/)

[nivarch]

Have you bugged this yet? Probably the best way to be sure it's at least seen by a dev/someone from QA.

[Anthios888]

Good call. Bug reported (now that we can!)

Sorry for the small screen size on the screenshots, its a bit embarrassing :x

[Anthios888]

Improved Shield Mastery DOES stack with recklessness, so it's not a morale bonus, contrary to what the DDO Wiki indicated.

[Chette]

Wow, this comes as a bit of a shock to me as I was just a few days ago reading all the threads available on doublestrike to determine if I should make another epic spare hand for my wind stance monk. From what I read inspire recklessness was stacking with ALL sources of doublestrike, and I though, well, at least that's one buff for bards that will scale appropriately, since the benefit of inspire courage has been hugely diluted by increased damage from other sources.

I'm not going to stop playing my bard, but I'm extremely disappointed with the devs for how they've been pushed aside.

[maddmatt70]

I'm not going to stop playing my bard, but I'm extremely disappointed with the devs for how they've been pushed aside.

I think bards are the least played class in DDO which is a part of the reason that they were pushed aside. Now my guild likes bards alot and we on average each have about one bard, but I do not think that is the norm. I think bards need a significant overhaul, for starters bard songs should stack at least in part and bards need new abilities, but with a new class/race coming every year for Turbine to put a spotlight on and sell in the store Turbine has little incentive to revitalize old unpopular classes.

I like my cc/healing bard alot though this update. She has proven to be very powerful in either a cc role or healing role in a group (disco ball/mass charm/hypno/otto irresistable/mass cure wounds mod/mass cure wounds lt/cure crit/heal scrolls/fascinate). I just do not see it for bards vs. a fighter/barbarian/monk type. Not seeing it really.

[Anthios888]

This song is still a debuff for most of my party members!

--Diehard Bard

[voodoogroves]

This song is still a debuff for most of my party members!

--Diehard Bard

It's a passive boost to Virtuosos ...

Seriously though, very little War Chanter has going for it now comparatively.

[Anthios888]

Seriously though, very little War Chanter has going for it now comparatively.

But, what about the 10 HP from Warchanter II ...

+2 from damage song doesn't suck, but it's become less and less noticeable with everyone swinging for 102054 per swing.

[voodoogroves]

But, what about the 10 HP from Warchanter II ...

+2 from damage song doesn't suck, but it's become less and less noticeable with everyone swinging for 102054 per swing.

102052 per swing when the mobs are enthralled versus 102054 but they are hitting back is my quandry. I tossed up a half-orc virt the other day to test some things out in prep for TRing a more "main" character. Even in heroic the War Chanter difference doesn't feel that big either.

The medium armor for better PRR and the ability to not have to cast Master's Touch are bigger draws for me. Still aiming for a Virt on the TR.

[Anthios888]

102052 per swing when the mobs are enthralled versus 102054 but they are hitting back is my quandry. I tossed up a half-orc virt the other day to test some things out in prep for TRing a more "main" character. Even in heroic the War Chanter difference doesn't feel that big either.

The medium armor for better PRR and the ability to not have to cast Master's Touch are bigger draws for me. Still aiming for a Virt on the TR.

I guess I just never got the point. I played a virtuoso for a month or two at endgame, maybe a year ago. Enthrall was cool, but (1) ate songs fast, and (2) seemed to break for really high HP stuff. I've been happy enough with plain ole fascinate and otto's irresistible dance that I did not see how virtuoso could compliment my arsenal.

And, I still use recklessness, even though it does not stack. It means that I don't have to keep an Alchemical in my offhand. Recklessness seems bugged, but it's not as bad as the Greater Heroism song, which does not give greater heroism.

Having a +12 Damage song is pretty cool. It just needs to be cooler.

[Ape_Man]

Having a +12 Damage song is pretty cool. It just needs to be cooler.

War Chanter III better be friggin awesome.

[Anthios888]

War Chanter III better be friggin awesome.

This thread is just holding out some hope that Warchanter II could someday work as described.

[voodoogroves]

This thread is just holding out some hope that Warchanter II could someday work as described.

And hey, now the SS song doesn't brick on half the casters in the game, so there's that.

[Anthios888]

And hey, now the SS song doesn't brick on half the casters in the game, so there's that.

It works on warforged now.

[Systern]

While we're talking about bugged Bard Songs... Inspire Heroics is supposed to give a +4% dodge bonus. Eladrin posted that all temporary sources of dodge (Like uncanny dodge) are supposed to go over Max Dex Bonus and the 25% cap.

Inspire Heroics does not.

[Jaid314]

It works on warforged now.

there were 2 bugged songs for spellsingers.

trance didn't work on pale masters in form (but if they received it, then entered form, no problem... until you wanted to refresh it).
vigor didn't work on toasters.

so spellsinger is still bugged... just less bugged :p

[taurean430]

Good to see this topic being discussed again. Non stacking of IR combined with commonly available sources of doublestrike really killed that song. A song that's supposed to be the calling card for the PrC. I don't use it anymore, which has bugged me for a long time. This was after testing it with a guildie and confirming this months ago. Bug reported it too hoping to see it fixed. So far, nothing...