Rage

[mr_O]

So disturbing trend on Sarlona is healing classes not healing. I ran Chrono on EH today and was dead twice in the first five minutes both times IN FRONT OF THE FVS. Im all for playing a toon however you want to just look at the last thread I posted about my rogue. But if you sign on to fill a specific role, FILL THAT ROLE. Or at least try, come on people even good Horc sword swinging fvs can and do toss heals to back up. thats difference between being good and being stuborn on a fvs/cleric.

[Fomori]

First off, I'll say that the FvS probably should have been helping out with the healing.

However, your red bar is the not the responsibility of the person with the blue bar. If you notice they are not healing you, then you need to take measures to ensure your own survival. Move, heal yourself, or something!

Remember that while we are playing a social game you have the responsibility to try and mitigate some of that damage as well.

[redmexz]

Do not tell me what to do:)

[mr_O]

First off, I'll say that the FvS probably should have been helping out with the healing.

However, your red bar is the not the responsibility of the person with the blue bar. If you notice they are not healing you, then you need to take measures to ensure your own survival. Move, heal yourself, or something!

Remember that while we are playing a social game you have the responsibility to try and mitigate some of that damage as well.

This I understand and carry minimum 200 heal scrolls at all times.(to heal mysef spot heal the party etc.) That being said if I cant get away from say a teleporting devil and cant get off a scroll due to him hitting me just fast enough that I am forced to make a concentration check then yes, the guy with the blue bar standing still and not casting ANYTHING while spinning about is the one who should be healing.

[Uma-Quixote]

I very much doubt the fvs was just standing there watching you die. Was probably lagging/spiked, could have been keeping another toon alive, could have been having some rl emergency, might have fallen off his chair...there are a hundred reasons why he didn't/couldn't heal you...

[Chai]

If you show up for a raid and occupy a healing spot, youre healing the raid. The issue I see alot is when a heal capable class joins due to the fact that the group is looking for healers, knowingly occupies the healer slot, then doesnt heal. People have tried to tell me that players red bars are not the resposibility of the blue bar, but when that blue bar got into the group due to the fact they they do indeed have a blue bar and a heal spell, those red bars certainly are, in part, their responsibility.

[Chai]

I very much doubt the fvs was just standing there watching you die. Was probably lagging/spiked, could have been keeping another toon alive, could have been having some rl emergency, might have fallen off his chair...there are a hundred reasons why he didn't/couldn't heal you...

Its even more hilarious when they themselves prove this wrong when the raise comes in a half second after death. There are a few folks knowingly getting into groups who were obviously looking for a healer, then not healing on purpose.

[Kages]

I very much doubt the fvs was just standing there watching you die. Was probably lagging/spiked, could have been keeping another toon alive, could have been having some rl emergency, might have fallen off his chair...there are a hundred reasons why he didn't/couldn't heal you...
Not going to lie, if it was me then I was probably standing their laughing while seeing the red bar go down.

Anyways on a real note I understand where OP is coming from. He specified in his opening statement that "if you fill a specific role" this being said, if that healer signed into the group to be a healer, then yes he should be required to heal. With that said though, I do not feel the need for every healer type toon to be required to heal, their are many viable builds out there that complament a party without having to heal. Especially with such easy access to UMD gear and Silver Flame pots. I've tanked Epic lob before the changes when both healers went down due to cometfall or something trivial with nothing but silver flame pots. It is doable, it is expensive though.

[Kages]

Now for a quick note, names are easy to write down. Keep track of the names of healers that refuse to heal and anex them if you wish. Regardless of popular belief, their are more than plenty of healers out there.

[LafoMamone]

If you show up for a raid and occupy a healing spot, youre healing the raid. The issue I see alot is when a heal capable class joins due to the fact that the group is looking for healers, knowingly occupies the healer slot, then doesnt heal. People have tried to tell me that players red bars are not the resposibility of the blue bar, but when that blue bar got into the group due to the fact they they do indeed have a blue bar and a heal spell, those red bars certainly are, in part, their responsibility.

This.

If I see a raid up that is asking for healers specifically, I would only join if I felt like actually healing the raid from beginning to end. And once I'm in, I would do my job because I knew exactly what the group needed and what I was getting myself into.

Letting a zero fort, 200 HP rogue die in elite ToD is one thing, but joining and then refusing to heal everyone on account of "Do not tell me what to do" is extremely arrogant.

[hockeyrama]

i have a high level cleric that i use to heal quite frequently and yes I can do other stuff but i do actually heal. When i am not on my cleric I experience the same problem as the op. There are far too many healer based toons that will not heal. If you are in a raid or a quest and can heal then why not jsut do it to help your team (try seeing it as everyone working together instead of a competition) to do the best. You can still kill and do everything else but really.

That being said if there a guy running off and getting himself killed repeatedly backpacks are an acceptable solution. In this case sounds like he was right there and was not healed and that is not acceptable. It would be like the wizard coming to an epic da to fulfill a cc spot (listed in lfm) then saying he can cc but prefers to just kill and he does not toss any discos at all while the cleric is forced to try to spam heals to keep all alive.

If people work as a team the game works better. If healers would do this more often there would be less people complaining about the lack of good healers.

On the otehr side though it is very difficult to play a healer. I ahve been in many quests where melee dont understand how it works. First it is alot easier to heal if people are together. If you start spreading out then it means they have to target each of you indivicually which is very difficult as well as time consuming. Just think about it this way you have to cast heal on one person, tehn cure crit on another and then heal on another and soo on where if everyone was togeterh one mass cure crit would have filled them all (mass heal if they had the time is even nicer). This causes many deaths as people go down to fast for individual targeting and spell selections.

So be nice to clerics, stay together on the same target and healers be nice to melee and heal them even if you spec to do somethign else you can do it while healing.

[Kages]

i have a high level cleric that i use to heal quite frequently and yes I can do other stuff but i do actually heal. When i am not on my cleric I experience the same problem as the op. There are far too many healer based toons that will not heal. If you are in a raid or a quest and can heal then why not jsut do it to help your team (try seeing it as everyone working together instead of a competition) to do the best. You can still kill and do everything else but really.

That being said if there a guy running off and getting himself killed repeatedly backpacks are an acceptable solution. In this case sounds like he was right there and was not healed and that is not acceptable. It would be like the wizard coming to an epic da to fulfill a cc spot (listed in lfm) then saying he can cc but prefers to just kill and he does not toss any discos at all while the cleric is forced to try to spam heals to keep all alive.

If people work as a team the game works better. If healers would do this more often there would be less people complaining about the lack of good healers.

On the otehr side though it is very difficult to play a healer. I ahve been in many quests where melee dont understand how it works. First it is alot easier to heal if people are together. If you start spreading out then it means they have to target each of you indivicually which is very difficult as well as time consuming. Just think about it this way you have to cast heal on one person, tehn cure crit on another and then heal on another and soo on where if everyone was togeterh one mass cure crit would have filled them all (mass heal if they had the time is even nicer). This causes many deaths as people go down to fast for individual targeting and spell selections.

So be nice to clerics, stay together on the same target and healers be nice to melee and heal them even if you spec to do somethign else you can do it while healing.

You mean DA isn't a solo quest?

This is a good point, but unrealistic considering the abnorment amount of children that play. In an ideal world though, agreed.

This is something I have believed for a very very long time. Everyone should make a healer to experience how it works. Blind suggestions and retoricle psychobable be damned, don't comment on what you dont know mr fighter type with no SP pot consumption.

This part applies to your backpack comment, that and a single res is cheaper than 12 individual heal's.

Lots of good comments about healers.

[Grieve]

This.
Letting a zero fort, 200 HP rogue die in elite ToD is one thing, but joining and then refusing to heal everyone on account of "Do not tell me what to do" is extremely arrogant.

200hp, no fort characters are great vendor trash. They go right in my backpack for safe storage.



That being said if there a guy running off and getting himself killed repeatedly backpacks are an acceptable solution. In this case sounds like he was right there and was not healed and that is not acceptable. It would be like the wizard coming to an epic da to fulfill a cc spot (listed in lfm) then saying he can cc but prefers to just kill and he does not toss any discos at all while the cleric is forced to try to spam heals to keep all alive.


What killing all the trash for you isn't good enough? I always thought the best "Crowd Control" was when one just made the crowd disappear (or drop dead take your pick).



So disturbing trend on Sarlona is healing classes not healing. I ran Chrono on EH today and was dead twice in the first five minutes both times IN FRONT OF THE FVS. Im all for playing a toon however you want to just look at the last thread I posted about my rogue. But if you sign on to fill a specific role, FILL THAT ROLE. Or at least try, come on people even good Horc sword swinging fvs can and do toss heals to back up. thats difference between being good and being stuborn on a fvs/cleric.

What? You mean I'm actually supposed to throw a heal? I always thought everyone needed to keep close and stay in my aura. My blue bar is for killing stuff. :D


Oh, one last thing. Get some ****ing Heal amp people! Healers love it when you actually have it. I'm not just talking about the WF out there, but fleshies too. WF just have to work harder for it and should make a primary goal to have great heal amp. The biggest turn off to healing someone is when you hit them and there bar goes nowhere. It at that point where I don't care who you are, but you aren't getting anymore heals because I'm not wasting SP on that. (Yes, I do realize atm WF Healer's friend is broken so cutting them a little slack right now.)

[Samiusbot]

I am confused, why does anyone need healing in EH Chrono? CSW pots are good enough for the low damage you take...

Me thinks something else is going on...

[Ilindith]

I am confused, why does anyone need healing in EH Chrono? CSW pots are good enough for the low damage you take...

Me thinks something else is going on...

My thoughts exactly, but I was hesitating to voice them :p

[Chai]

I am confused, why does anyone need healing in EH Chrono? CSW pots are good enough for the low damage you take...

Me thinks something else is going on...

Expecting people with HP totals nearing 1k to heal up using CSW pots is pretty redando when one heal spell will top them off. How long is the high DPS fighter or barbarian expected to stand there and drink pots rather than actually DPS the mobs down?

EH can be blown through even faster if the heavy beaters are damaging mobs the entire time, rather than damaging mobs 25% of the time and guzzling CSW pots 75% of the time.

[Kages]

My thoughts exactly, but I was hesitating to voice them :p
Its ok bro, the voices in your head keep you occupied I'm sure. Mine do.

[LordPiglet]

Sometimes I just like to let people die. I do this mainly to my guildies, but occasionally if might have happened when a pugger wasn't listening.

[LafoMamone]

200hp, no fort characters are great vendor trash. They go right in my backpack for safe storage.

Tis a nice dream, being able to cash in on every soulstone that you come across. The harbor population would be like Apple stocks.



Oh, one last thing. Get some ****ing Heal amp people! Healers love it when you actually have it. I'm not just talking about the WF out there, but fleshies too. WF just have to work harder for it and should make a primary goal to have great heal amp. The biggest turn off to healing someone is when you hit them and there bar goes nowhere. It at that point where I don't care who you are, but you aren't getting anymore heals because I'm not wasting SP on that. (Yes, I do realize atm WF Healer's friend is broken so cutting them a little slack right now.)

Luckily, WF barbs are pretty much a thing of the past. Fleshies, predominantly Horcs, are firmly holding the barb/fighter department. 80% of WF I come across now are self-healing arties and wizards, with some monks here and there.

[Gizeh]

Expecting people with HP totals nearing 1k to heal up using CSW pots is pretty redando when one heal spell will top them off. How long is the high DPS fighter or barbarian expected to stand there and drink pots rather than actually DPS the mobs down?

EH can be blown through even faster if the heavy beaters are damaging mobs the entire time, rather than damaging mobs 25% of the time and guzzling CSW pots 75% of the time.

Divine caster spamming dmg/kill spells instead of healing melees + melees taking forever to get hp back by chugging pots = better kill score for divines = epeen stroking in the forums :D

[Kages]

Sometimes I just like to let people die. I do this mainly to my guildies, but occasionally if might have happened when a pugger wasn't listening.
And you enjoy dying when someone expresses their support in your healing ability. Good times.

[justagame]

Its even more hilarious when they themselves prove this wrong when the raise comes in a half second after death.

That doesn't mean anything. You might have caught them in between cooldowns, been blocked, missed a mass cure or mass heal, they may have been stunned, any number of things.

[LordPiglet]

And you enjoy dying when someone expresses their support in your healing ability. Good times.

A well timed death, is just hard to beat.

Heck, sometimes I die just so I can pike.

[Quetzacoala]

So disturbing trend on Sarlona is healing classes not healing. I ran Chrono on EH today and was dead twice in the first five minutes both times IN FRONT OF THE FVS. Im all for playing a toon however you want to just look at the last thread I posted about my rogue. But if you sign on to fill a specific role, FILL THAT ROLE. Or at least try, come on people even good Horc sword swinging fvs can and do toss heals to back up. thats difference between being good and being stuborn on a fvs/cleric.

Quite frankly, there are far too many reasons why the favored soul did not heal you.

1. He may have been lagging

2. He may have been busy healing others

3. Something could have happened in reality that demanded his attention

4. He may not have realized that you needed to be healed

5. He may have assumed another healer would handle it

6. He may not be a favored soul that heals others

7. He may have had a personal vendetta against you

[Samiusbot]

Expecting people with HP totals nearing 1k to heal up using CSW pots is pretty redando when one heal spell will top them off. How long is the high DPS fighter or barbarian expected to stand there and drink pots rather than actually DPS the mobs down?

EH can be blown through even faster if the heavy beaters are damaging mobs the entire time, rather than damaging mobs 25% of the time and guzzling CSW pots 75% of the time.

I have more then active pure fighter with more then 1k hp. And i can totally heal myself and dps. Don't think that people can't they just expect others to heal them.

Take care of yourself first. Soul Stones have ****** dps!

[Chai]

That doesn't mean anything. You might have caught them in between cooldowns, been blocked, missed a mass cure or mass heal, they may have been stunned, any number of things.

When the res comes in that quick, it was timed.

[Sgt_Hart]

Having been there, and living through it all on my 265HP bard.. All I'm gonna say is it tends to be wiser to stay with the group, rather than following an FVS/TANK off and wherever the hell stamp was going.

[Chai]

I have more then active pure fighter with more then 1k hp. And i can totally heal myself and dps. Don't think that people can't they just expect others to heal them.

Take care of yourself first. Soul Stones have ****** dps!

I agree that people should always have a self healing solution, but the entire idea of raids being BYOH isnt as efficient as having the heavy beaters do their thing constantly while the healers DOT and heal.

[justagame]

When the res comes in that quick, it was timed.

Laughable. I think you overestimate the ability to precisely time these things in the heat of battle. Who on earth likes to rez? Raising/re-healing-rebuffing takes away from other activities, right when the s___ is hitting the fan. Put another way, who on earth would refuse to heal, yet is johnny on the spot with a rez time and time again? No one I know, and no one who is even reasonably efficient at playing the class.

I ask you, what's a more reasonable explanation?

1. The healer was healing someone else/on a cooldown / blocked / fighting or otherwise occupied at the moment you needed the heal, and upon your death raised you

<or>

2. They purposely stood by and watched you die, unwilling to cast a heal, just so they could rez you afterwards


If the goal is to look out for yourself only and not heal anyone else, the same is going to be true for rezzing -- you MIGHT rez someone when the dust has settled, and you're not otherwise engaged.

[Kages]

Some valid points, but ultimately I do not agree. Rezzing I cheaper, what are buffs?

[Taimasan]

Can you feel it!!! Lets go..lets go lets go lets go....

[mr_O]

So yes I do understand being self sufficient like i said i carry minimum 200 heal scrolls maxed wand amd scroll mastery and have a tiny bit of amp. My scrolls hit me for 454 i have 608 hp and 110% fort. But being repeatedly hit by devils means i cant scroll myself. The fvs wasnt doing anything and someone said "looks like he made the mistake of thinking-- was going to heal him." This is an unacceptable way to fill a healing role. If it said byoh i would have came anyway a.d been in the mindset that i would be healing myself. If you cant help the party dont come period.

[Rawel_San]

I haven't played my healer much since MoTU came out mainly since I have other characters to work on first,
but it feels generally that the huge dumbing down of content and everyone hitting all the time has led
to a BYOH approach almost everywhere. SF pots are very easy to get now and get most people with decent
heal amp from 0-full in at most 2 swigs. The fact that their main penalty (not being able to hit for **** and
having no AC) has been all but nullified they are now a perfect way to keep your melee no blue bar character
up. This in my opinion is the main reason "healers" heal less as they expect people to be able to keep themselves
up, the way they saw it in other groups.

[drstampede]

I'm guessing your sound wasn't working when we said "BYOH, if you can't byoh stay back till we get to the main fights. Don't pull aggro off the healers. Don't run ahead of the healers if you are not self sufficient." Sure I've got close to 3k SP but that doesn't mean I have to let you suck it up like a sponge. If you remember the party was spread out all over the market place, there was no way to tell who was close enough to get healed. Half the time I tried to heal you, you where either blocked or out of range. Make a healer and tell me how much fun you have following a group around that is all over the map and trying to keep them alive.

different kinds of healers - http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2429818&postcount=1

I am NOT a heal bot, I will NOT follow you around to keep you alive. If you want to live, you will follow me. If you don't like the way I play, Don't ask me to heal your party.

My blue bar is nothing more then an extension of my red bar.

[mr_O]

T
I'm guessing your sound wasn't working when we said "BYOH, if you can't byoh stay back till we get to the main fights. Don't pull aggro off the healers. Don't run ahead of the healers if you are not self sufficient." Sure I've got close to 3k SP but that doesn't mean I have to let you suck it up like a sponge. If you remember the party was spread out all over the market place, there was no way to tell who was close enough to get healed. Half the time I tried to heal you, you where either blocked or out of range. Make a healer and tell me how much fun you have following a group around that is all over the map and trying to keep them alive.

different kinds of healers - http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2429818&postcount=1

I am NOT a heal bot, I will NOT follow you around to keep you alive. If you want to live, you will follow me. If you don't like the way I play, Don't ask me to heal your party.

My blue bar is nothing more then an extension of my red bar.

I call BS i was following you and three other people i did not recieve one heal i got a res and scrolled myself up. I dont expect you to be a heal bot but if you can toss it on a teammate in need then TOSS it. If you refuse thats your bad not mine.

[FooWonk]

If the last two times the healer cast heal were on you,
you don't deserve a heal.

If you jumped out of a mass heal the healer just cast,
you don't deserve a heal.

If while near death, you aggro a new mob,
you don't deserve a heal.

If you just stole aggro from the group's tank,
you don't deserve a heal.

If you come running back to the healer with a train of mobs,
you don't deserve a heal.

If you refuse to fight inside the battle clerics aura,
you don't deserve a heal.

If the last two heals the healer targeted on you were "blocked",
you don't deserve a heal.

If you treat the healer like your personal hireling,
you don't deserve a heal.

If your primary contribution to the group is whittling away at the healer's blue bar,
you don't deserve a heal.

If you find it necessary to announce your displeasure at the healer,
you don't deserve a heal.

If you think the healer has no right judging your capabilities,
you don't deserve a heal.

If you think the healer needs you,
you don't deserve a heal.

[mr_O]

If the last two times the healer cast heal were on you,
you don't deserve a heal.

If you jumped out of a mass heal the healer just cast,
you don't deserve a heal.

If while near death, you aggro a new mob,
you don't deserve a heal.

If you just stole aggro from the group's tank,
you don't deserve a heal.

If you come running back to the healer with a train of mobs,
you don't deserve a heal.

If you refuse to fight inside the battle clerics aura,
you don't deserve a heal.

If the last two heals the healer targeted on you were "blocked",
you don't deserve a heal.

If you treat the healer like your personal hireling,
you don't deserve a heal.

If your primary contribution to the group is whittling away at the healer's blue bar,
you don't deserve a heal.

If you find it necessary to announce your displeasure at the healer,
you don't deserve a heal.

If you think the healer has no right judging your capabilities,
you don't deserve a heal.

If you think the healer needs you,
you don't deserve a heal.
Agreed on all counts but lets add one.
If the last two heals you threw were on yourself OUT of combat and while your party was dying you dont deserve to be a healer.
If all the heals you throw dont land because you ran behind a wall away from your dps/tanks
YOU DONT DESERVE TO BE A HEALER.

[Sgt_Hart]

I'm guessing your sound wasn't working when we said "BYOH, if you can't byoh stay back till we get to the main fights. Don't pull aggro off the healers. Don't run ahead of the healers if you are not self sufficient."

Nice of you to quote it and retort Mister O, but reading it first may have been more.. productive?

[hebruhamer]

woot!!! i was definately the FVS that didnt heal him Harkur on sarlona, and i ended up tanking the raid and i always say if u want heals better b standing next to me or the mass spell wont hit ya. we had zero issues completing all ya did was run in die with in 5 mins then leave its not a divine job to babysit ur red bar unless theres a boss and again better b standing next to me swinging

[drstampede]

Agreed on all counts but lets add one.
If the last two heals you threw were on yourself OUT of combat and while your party was dying you dont deserve to be a healer.

well if the healer dies, the party WIPES! of course the healer is going to heal him/her self first.


If all the heals you throw dont land because you ran behind a wall away from your dps/tanks
YOU DONT DESERVE TO BE A HEALER.

why would we run and hide when we are tryen to pull aggro. BOTH the FvS in that party play tanks, and both are heal spec.

[mr_O]

woot!!! i was definately the FVS that didnt heal him Harkur on sarlona, and i ended up tanking the raid and i always say if u want heals better b standing next to me or the mass spell wont hit ya. we had zero issues completing all ya did was run in die with in 5 mins then leave its not a divine job to babysit ur red bar unless theres a boss and again better b standing next to me swinging

No, no you weren't but ill add to my list anyway.

[mr_O]

well if the healer dies, the party WIPES! of course the healer is going to heal him/her self first.



why would we run and hide when we are tryen to pull aggro. BOTH the FvS in that party play tanks, and both are heal spec.
Healers red bar was full. If your a tanking HEALER tank and HEAL. My guild leader is a friggin fantastic tank healer and guess what? He doesnt let people die.

[hebruhamer]

lol i was definately there in that raid dude, i'll even go a step further it was my lfm you hit :P

[hebruhamer]

I ran Chrono on EH today and was dead twice in the first five minutes

sounds way more your issue then ours :P

[ZeebaNeighba]

With the healing nerf, it's now more efficient to wait for someone to die and use True Resurrection to get them to full health than it is to actually use the heal spell :D

That's why

[mr_O]

sounds way more your issue then ours :P
Not really I run a good rogue, know most quests, and have repeatedly solo scrolled ee quests. All the skill in the world doesnt stop you from getting beat on. Thats why people still have party wipes. My point is IF YOU FILL A SPECIFIC SPOT THEN DO WHAT IS NEEDED. Or kindly send me all of the healers you know where i would be mistaken thinking they would heal. I dont mind filling out my squelch list.

[DarkForte]

What I understood from this conversation:
-Happy-go-lucky rogue aggroes 6 devils and dies: OMG THE HEALERS SUCK.
-No one else is dying: OMG ITS A HEALER VENDETTA AGAINST ME U ALL SUCK.

As far as I know, they completed the quest... maybe because the healers sucked and no one was getting heals.

If you're the **** best rogue in the server, nay, in all of DDO, why were the mobs aggroed on you and not dead? Are you going to make a pale master too and complain the healers are not harming you?

"if I die it is the healer's fault". As someone who plays 3 healing-specced toons and other toons that need healing handed to them to a degree, this mentality is pretty ridiculous. Really, if you can't stay with the group and pick your targets so as to not get monster aggression (that IS what you do on your rogue, right???), you better be self-sufficient. If you're neither, you're better off as a soulstone. When there's 12 people all over the marketplace running around killing devils, expecting the healers to keep tracking you like a heat-seeking missile is outrageous. It's one thing if mr tanky dude is tanking, you're beating in the back of the boss and the healers ignore healing long enough for you to get raped to death by cleave, but it's clearly not the case.

[dragon2fire]

I agree that people should always have a self healing solution, but the entire idea of raids being BYOH isnt as efficient as having the heavy beaters do their thing constantly while the healers DOT and heal.

That's it i am doing it!!! Byoh raid night!!!!

On a serious note if you take issues with your healer maybe i dont know make one....no seriously i agree completely with kages on this every one should cap a healer get a window into our world. Heals do get on timer....some of the changes to the way gear works have requiered adjustments....and some people are not good healers. Its so much easier to hide garbage dps.

[ZeebaNeighba]

That's it i am doing it!!! Byoh raid night!!!!

On a serious note if you take issues with your healer maybe i dont know make one....no seriously i agree completely with kages on this every one should cap a healer get a window into our world. Heals do get on timer....some of the changes to the way gear works have requiered adjustments....and some people are not good healers. Its so much easier to hide garbage dps.And they'll notice how easy it is to lose yourself in the battle and forget to look at people's health bars. Then they hear the "ding" when someone dies, and that's why rezzes can come in quickly.

[Munkenmo]

Or kindly send me all of the healers you know where i would be mistaken thinking they would heal. I dont mind filling out my squelch list.

Favenmo

[dragon2fire]

Reading the rest of this its interesting to hear form the actual healer in question. And i repeat really please make a healer. A zerg eh chrono your not getting healed likely the party is way too spread out ...if the party is scattered why are you expecting heals ....that's silly at all levels.

[Tirisha]

/sarcasm on

you died in eh chrono? did you forget your stack of cure serious pots?

/sarcasm off

seriously though I don't ever expect a healer to heal.

I have no idea how fast he is. (every healers unpredictable even ones you know.)

If I'm slowly being killed and it's obvious that he doesn't intend on healing me, then I heal myself.

If I'm dying quickly enough that it's possible that he just might not be fast enough then I change positions while healing myself.

Never underestimate the run circles around the healer while chugging cure serious pots and waiting for him to cast mass heal tactic.

and never underestimate the 400 silver flame favor tactic (you'll never need a healer again)

[Tirisha]

If you're the **** best rogue in the server, nay, in all of DDO, why were the mobs aggroed on you and not dead?

just wanna point out that devils have random aggro while teleporting. Not something a rogue can always control.

[Seamonkeysix]

Having healed eChrono too many times to remember on my FvSes, I usually notice the dead guy's dot on the map way far away from the party. I wasn't in this party, but more often than not, somebody being dead results from a false presumption that a healer is following you around, in awe of your killing prowess and dutifully keeping you alive.

In my experience, it's always a good idea to be with the pack of folks to ensure mass heals. Don't get me wrong, plenty of people will go out and kill on their own in epic hard eChrono these days because it is easy, but if you can't rapidly self-heal reliably, I would recommend staying with the group.

When you see the FvS with 900+ HP, an eFang and tower shield, you can usually count on finding him in the middle of the sword swinging...look for masses there. ;)

[Thaxlsillyia]

so you died in EH chrono. be happy somebody threw you a res. oh, whats that? you died again and somebody ressed you again? big deal... go loot your stuff and carry on. nobody cares that you died.

PS: also if you were the only one who died twice in that raid then it indicates soemthing is wrong with you and not the healers.

[cherokee83pride]

So disturbing trend on Sarlona is healing classes not healing. I ran Chrono on EH today and was dead twice in the first five minutes both times IN FRONT OF THE FVS. Im all for playing a toon however you want to just look at the last thread I posted about my rogue. But if you sign on to fill a specific role, FILL THAT ROLE. Or at least try, come on people even good Horc sword swinging fvs can and do toss heals to back up. thats difference between being good and being stuborn on a fvs/cleric.

Hmmm so wasnt in the raid, however did hear about it. But, take into account you ran infront of the healers, fvs/cleric whatever. And expected them to come after you while you zerged ahead away from the group and heal you. So you died 5 times in the course of 5 minutes because you were being irresponsible and zerging in an Epic Hard Raid. If you are saying healers arent doing their jobs, sit back and think for a moment that you are NOT doing yours and staying with the group because your toon isnt as uber as you think it is. Just because you have umd does not make you a better player, or ever better dps at that point. if you cannot sustain your own health in an Epic Hard Raid because you thought it would be a great Idea to zerg ahead and "think" you are doing dps, you have another thing coming because your toon wont make it thru any other raids, Epic or otherwise. If you cant be a team player, why would others want you to even be in their group because all you were doing was zerging away from the group and the heals. So in my point of view, its your fault for dieing, because you weren't patient enough to stay with the group.....:mad:

[MsEricka]

My guild leader is a friggin fantastic tank healer and guess what? He doesnt let people die.

Then your guild leader isn't a good healer. A good healer lets the appropriate people die when they need to because they are more of a drain on resources than they need to be.


f the last two heals you threw were on yourself OUT of combat and while your party was dying you dont deserve to be a healer.

You do realize of course that if a target decides to run out of range, become blocked while a mass heal is being cast or dies, the heal is then cast on the healer instead. Happens all the time.


I'm guessing your sound wasn't working when we said "BYOH, if you can't byoh stay back till we get to the main fights. Don't pull aggro off the healers. Don't run ahead of the healers if you are not self sufficient."

If this is the case, it sounds like the OP wanted a babysitter instead of a healer.


So yes I do understand being self sufficient like i said i carry minimum 200 heal scrolls maxed wand amd scroll mastery and have a tiny bit of amp.

OK, then why didn't you heal yourself when you realized you weren't getting healed?

You started the thread off well, and then everyone realized you wanted a babysitter and can't listen to instructions. Well played.

[mr_O]

Hmmm so wasnt in the raid, however did hear about it. But, take into account you ran infront of the healers, fvs/cleric whatever. And expected them to come after you while you zerged ahead away from the group and heal you. So you died 5 times in the course of 5 minutes because you were being irresponsible and zerging in an Epic Hard Raid. If you are saying healers arent doing their jobs, sit back and think for a moment that you are NOT doing yours and staying with the group because your toon isnt as uber as you think it is. Just because you have umd does not make you a better player, or ever better dps at that point. if you cannot sustain your own health in an Epic Hard Raid because you thought it would be a great Idea to zerg ahead and "think" you are doing dps, you have another thing coming because your toon wont make it thru any other raids, Epic or otherwise. If you cant be a team player, why would others want you to even be in their group because all you were doing was zerging away from the group and the heals. So in my point of view, its your fault for dieing, because you weren't patient enough to stay with the group.....:mad:
You know me, Kixie is my monk. I don't zerg on my rogue unless it's BEHIND the other zergers. I'm ok with "did not notice, was tanking, healing someone else, lagging, etc.." but getting smacked down twice in front of a fvs is not right. The first death was my bad I'll take the heat for it no problem I followed a zerging fvs by myself. Dumb move. The second death is what ****ed me off. No excuses I was watching him stand there, and then the comment about some poor fool expecting -------- to heal again. If you play a "heal" specced fvs and you don't heal so much that your friends say that about you... Just no. It would make me to ashamed to heal ever, which is why I don't unless I'm the last resort.

[mr_O]

Then your guild leader isn't a good healer. A good healer lets the appropriate people die when they need to because they are more of a drain on resources than they need to be.



You do realize of course that if a target decides to run out of range, become blocked while a mass heal is being cast or dies, the heal is then cast on the healer instead. Happens all the time.



If this is the case, it sounds like the OP wanted a babysitter instead of a healer.



OK, then why didn't you heal yourself when you realized you weren't getting healed?

You started the thread off well, and then everyone realized you wanted a babysitter and can't listen to instructions. Well played.
No I don't I just am tired of the attitude that ANY class can self heal themselves through ANYTHING ANYTIME. If this was the case there would be no fvs/clerics heal or tank as tank fvs/clerics are just more self-sufficient fighters with less dps. Or every "healer" would be nuke and insta-kill specced.

[mr_O]

I'm guessing your sound wasn't working when we said "BYOH, if you can't byoh stay back till we get to the main fights. Don't pull aggro off the healers. Don't run ahead of the healers if you are not self sufficient." Sure I've got close to 3k SP but that doesn't mean I have to let you suck it up like a sponge. If you remember the party was spread out all over the market place, there was no way to tell who was close enough to get healed. Half the time I tried to heal you, you where either blocked or out of range. Make a healer and tell me how much fun you have following a group around that is all over the map and trying to keep them alive.

different kinds of healers - http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2429818&postcount=1

I am NOT a heal bot, I will NOT follow you around to keep you alive. If you want to live, you will follow me. If you don't like the way I play, Don't ask me to heal your party.

My blue bar is nothing more then an extension of my red bar.
No I probably wasn't there as I was one of the last two to join. I DID FOLLOW YOU THAT WAS THE POINT TO THIS. I have run with you a lot and know not to expect a heal bot but the blatant disregard for a party member who was easily healable and within range is what really got my goat so to speak.

[countfitz]

I am confused, why does anyone need healing in EH Chrono? CSW pots are good enough for the low damage you take...

Me thinks something else is going on...

This. I 4 manned it, granted w/ my cleric, a wiz, sorc and FvS.

[countfitz]

No I don't I just am tired of the attitude that ANY class can self heal themselves through ANYTHING ANYTIME. If this was the case there would be no fvs/clerics heal or tank as tank fvs/clerics are just more self-sufficient fighters with less dps. Or every "healer" would be nuke and insta-kill specced.

This is what I don't get. Why people don't play divines/arcanes exclusively.

Unlike what the OP just said, they are NOT "self sufficient fighters with less dps," They have more DPS and completely self sufficient without any loss of power.

And again, seriously, who dies in an eH chrono?

Finally, on a less serious note. My cleric just topped the kill count in eVon 5. He beat the barb who stayed in the puzzle room to "get conquest." Mostly because we didn't get a caster to join (Okay, I'll be fair, I turned all the undead and instakilled everything else)... but seriously... why does anyone play melee? What do they bring to the table?

Seriously... I can understand the "Nerf casters/divines" threads, but I just don't understand this one. Other than pointing out how you DIED IN eH CHRONO, what did you accomplish?

[Sgt_Hart]

No I probably wasn't there as I was one of the last two to join.

Um.. you were there. You were one of the 3 Pug's in the group of 12. Everyone else -knew- the drill and didn't need to be told I'm afraid.

[imandria]

But if you sign on to fill a specific role, FILL THAT ROLE. Or at least try, come on people even good Horc sword swinging fvs can and do toss heals to back up.

I think the point you're missing is that this was their group... their LFM... they didn't join up for the specific role you wanted them to join up for. You're assuming that because of their class, they should heal you. That's not the way the game works. Never, ever go into a group assuming a divine is going to be your personal babysitter just because of their class icon.

[achitophel]

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/24154702.jpg

Couldnt help myself...

[DarkForte]

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/24154702.jpg

Couldnt help myself...

+1 for the most hilarious moment in my morning.

[LordPiglet]

Agreed on all counts but lets add one.
If the last two heals you threw were on yourself OUT of combat and while your party was dying you dont deserve to be a healer.
If all the heals you throw dont land because you ran behind a wall away from your dps/tanks
YOU DONT DESERVE TO BE A HEALER.

That's cool, I'm not playing a healer, I'm playing a divine caster.

[Enoach]

Every player that has taken the dive into the Divine Arts plays differently - Based on Class(es) picked, Skill Level and personal taste.

Some run around healing every wound no matter how minor, others balance healing well using rule of triage, others run mass heals on themselves only and if your there you get it otherwise tough, than there is those that heal themselves only and finally those that won't heal even themselves.

Hearing what seems to be both sides of the story - party member that complained they did not get healed and died twice within the first 5 minutes (Admitting also that the first was their fault {sarcastically I believe}) and than admitting they had run with the FvS before and knew not to expect a bot. Than from the PL who was said FvS with comments like being blocked/Out of Range - which can happen if the FvS is running ahead in Chrono or if the party member is running ahead. So we don't have a rewind/replay mode so that each of us can judge what really happened, all we have is the word of two players about the exchange.

Of course it would be interesting to see the score card at the end to see if in fact the FvS just let everyone die to raise them.

Look there are two options everyone has if they don't like the tone of the party

Suck it up and adjust
Leave

[hebruhamer]

was there, there were no more deaths

[Lord_WC]

4 pages of whine and rage and it's not even about a shroud run.

I'm speechless...

[hebruhamer]

with ddo still not working it was fun to relive this post :D made me think of a evon6 run the other day when after completion i said "good job i didnt throw a single heal" rumomo retorts "yes harkur is first fvs i met who really wont heal" my rebuttle "no momo you've met yourself"

[qq840189]

with ddo still not working it was fun to relive this post :D made me think of a evon6 run the other day when after completion i said "good job i didnt throw a single heal" rumomo retorts "yes harkur is first fvs i met who really wont heal" my rebuttle "no momo you've met yourself"


hahahaha seems i should read the forum more :P

and - i do heal - with divine wrath offc :D

-Rumomo

[dragon2fire]

omg you 2 healing a raid ...how did this complete? must of had a bard lol