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Shmuel
07-23-2012, 02:34 PM
Warning LONG post ahead:

It really seems like this update is all melee love, and that all the thinking about spell casters went into the spell power system and not into designing gear.

Now that I have had a bit of time to play the new content and look at the various synergies between gear, character abilities, and epic destinies, I think it is fair to say that the new items for casters need some improvements (to put it mildly).

The main reason for this is that the abilities on them and the way those abilities can/cannot be slotted together makes them almost useless to an epic-geared caster. Many of them are redundant. I don't see this as the case with the new sets/items for rogues, monks, or fighters, so I think perhaps the caster stuff was maybe just done last, right before a deadline or something (trying to be charitable here).:rolleyes:

I rarely make long posts like this, but *** here goes. Here are the items and the issues I see:

AS THEY ARE:

Alarphon's Staff: Quarterstaff 2(1d6)+6 Elemental Manipulation (+90 Spell Power to Acid, Cold, Electric, and Fire Spells), Greater Arcane Lore, Spell Selection for Alarphon's Staff.

War Wizard's Bracers: Bracers: Armor +9, Spell Penetration VIII, Elemental Spell Power, Greater Elemental Energy, Battle Arcanist Set Bonus- Battle Arcanist 3 Items: -10% Spell Point Cost

War Wizard's Amulet: Necklace: Protection +6, Spell Focus Mastery +1, greater Elemental Spell Power, Battle Arcanist Set Bonus.

War Wizard's Robe: Robe: Resistance +6, Archmagi, Elemental Absorbtion 5%, Concentration +15, Battle Arcanist Set Bonus.

Spidersilk Robes: Robe: 1 of [+8 INT, +8CHR, +3 Insightful INT, +3 Insightful CHR], Armor +9, Potency +72, Wizardry 9, Resistance +6, Concentration +15, Toughness (Can be upgraded to be part of the Battle Arcanist Set).

Planar Focus of Erudition: Trinket: 1 of [+8 INT, +8CHR, +3 Insightful INT, +3 Insightful CHR]: Planar Focus Erudition Set Bonus: Spell Penetration IX, +250 Spell Points (enhancement bonus, which makes me wonder if it stacks with Wizard Energy of the Scholar or Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded),+15 Psionic Bonus to Universal Spell Power.

Twilight, Element of Magic: Quarterstaff +7, 2.5(1d8) 20X2, +21 Implement Bonus to Universal Spell Power, +120 Equipment Bonus to Force Spell Power, Major Spell Focus to Enchantment and Evocation (+3DC) Arcane Augmentation IX, Greater Arcane Lore, Planar Focus Set Bonus (as above).

Pale Rod : Club: 2[1d6], +6, +18 Universal Spell Power, Nullification, Superior Void Lore, Improved Light Resistance

Icerazor - Sickle: 2[1d6]+6, Spellcasting Implement +18, Glaciation +102, Major Ice Lore, Slicing, Icy Burst, Freezing Ice

Staff of the Necromancer - Quarterstaff: 2[1d6]+6, +18 Spellcasting Implement, Potency +68, Nullification +102, Spell Penetration IX, Lesser Arcane Augmentation IX, Major Necromancy Focus

Holy Symbol of Lolth - Trinket: Spellcasting Implement +15, Nullification +102, Radiance +102, Impulse +102, Exceptional Charisma +1, Exceptional Wisdom +1, Embrace of the Spider Queen

Seal of House Szind - Ring: Lesser Random Ability Score (enhancement +7 or insightful +2), Potency +68, Wizardry IX

Green Dragonscale Robe: Robe: +6AC, Toughness, Superior Acid Resistance, Acid Absorption 20%, Resistance +6, Power Store
Blade of the High Priestess - Dagger: 2[1d4]+6, +18 Universal Spell Power, Potency +72, Improved Paralyzing, Wisdom, Wounding, Slay Living

Ok Let me comment on each of these now:


Alarphon's Staff: Leave alone, as it is, it is probably a nice STARTING POINT item for new or poorly equipped spellcasters which will help them contribute in epic content until they can improve their gear.

War Wizard's Bracers and War Wizard's Amulet: I'm sorry, but these are so bad I wouldn't even recommend to a new player that they get them. Here are several reasons. They are obviously meant to be considered as a pair, so that's how I will critique them:

1. Greensteel effects on non-greensteel. Ok, not everyone has all the shroud items they want, and it would be nice to find ways to replace some of those items eventually. But who, really, wants a PAIR of items at EPIC level that provide the same number of spellpoints as ONE greensteel item? As far as the Elemental Energy, obvioulsy many people have not run 20 shrouds, even if that sounds weird to people like myself that have run 100s of them, and have not yet had the chance to make a second greensteel hitpoint item. When they do, they will want to make one for 45 HP, not just 20.

2. Slotting Issues:
Using a necklace for one of these basically precludes using the Torc of Prince Rayum , which is one of the most useful and important items for a spellcaster even in its non-epic form. Every new player who wants to make a good caster should be trying to get one, and it is not hard to do.

The bracers may be a decent spot for an item, but why does it need to have armor +9 on it? Almost every robe in the game now has an armor bonus already on it, making armor bracers pretty much obsolete, even if you are in the small minority of people concerned about AC on your caster. Even the spidersilk robes has it.

3. redundant/useless effects:
on the necklace: +6 protection? ok maybe some people will now be trying to get some AC on their casters, but they are still definately the minority, and items for them do not need to be on one of the flagship gearsets for a major expansion. Spell Focus Mastery +1? Cmon, any caster who is trying at all to have decent DCs has AT LEAST a +2 focus on the spell schools they focus on. These can be gotten easily from many sources, even crafted. If your crafting skills arent high enough, find someone to do it for you. If you play on Argonessen, contact Xadins and I will make them for you. If you want to have a spell focus mastery, make it +2 like the Epic Staff of Inner Sight. If that make sit too powerful, take off one of these other useless effects to compensate. +1 is almost insulting on an epic caster.

On the bracers: +9 armor already commented on that. Spell penetration VIII? Why? There are lots of items with this already, including robes, scepters, q-staves, necklaces (Epic Torc again) and more. Most casters don’t need this and a 3-piece set rarely is gonna consolidate slots. Make it Greater spell pen 7 or lesser spell pen 9, those are at least a little rarer.

War Wizard’s Robe: Other than the fact that it seems like nearly every caster item on it has Archmagi these days, it is an ok item for a NEW, poorly geared caster. The +6 resist and 5% elemental absorbtion are nice MINOR bonuses. Concentration +15 is actually pretty nice, as that is a difficult to slot effect on many casters. I would make 2 changes: 1)give it a +8 AC bonus so that you can take the armor effect off the bracers, drop Archmagi if you have to in order to compensate for power of the item. No one is going to care because they probably (like my caster) already have about 2-3 archmagi effects on other gear they are already using. 2) substitute something else for archmagi if you don’t remove it. Maybe Greater Arcane Lore?
The Battle Arcanist Set Bonus is NICE! I want it. But not badly enough to wear all this garbage! Please help!

Spidersilk Robes: Fine as they are.

Planar Focus of Erudition: Trinket: 1 of [+8 INT, +8CHR, +3 Insightful INT, +3 Insightful CHR]: Planar Focus Erudition Set Bonus.
Overall a great item, no changes needed to it. As far as the set bonus, a few tweaks could help a lot. Upping the set bonus to GREATER spell pen 9 would make it stand out a bit more, since spell pen 9 is already available in several other places and will be redundant on this set for many casters. If making it greater spell pen 9 would be too OP, drop spell pen entirely form this set (as most casters have this covered already elsewhere) and up the psionic bonus to 25 so we can feel less bad about completely tossing the now hugely nerfed Eardwellers so many of us farmed for so long.

Twilight, Element of Magic: Great Item, although to set it apart from some relatively easily obtained ML12 and ML14 items maybe make it MAJOR arcane lore instead of greater. People complained tirelessly about this item in beta, as the +120 equipment bonus effect was random. Like I would have done as a DM if my players were complaining that much, the devs obliged us but made it static as a force enhancement, arguably the LEAST useful type (unless you’re a FVS) HAH LOL devs! That is a funny and appropriate response, but maybe now that everyone has calmed down we should revisit the issue. I don’t want a random effect, and I don’t think anyone does. Why not just eliminate this entirely and give the staff something like Potency +100. That way it’s a great all-around staff and will only be switched out occasionally for max damage of a particular element type when needed. And there is no need for random effects.

Pale Rod : Cool item but minimally useful. My pale master will definitely want this, but would be so much happier if it did NOT have the Nullification 90 (as there are plenty of other ways to get this relatively low powered effect) and instead had light resist 40, or better yet, 20% light resist. Or maybe if it gave “Boon to Undeath” like the mabar robes do. I’ve been waiting to see that effect somewhere else if I am going to upgrade to higher level robe. I regularly get one-shotted on the new epics by light spells when in form and have about as many HP as I can without being a dwarf or WF. I’d love some meaningful protection and would happily grind away for it. But 20 resist doesn’t help me when I get hit for 900 points of light damage by searing light or am getting clicks of 250 from divine punishment.

Icerazor – For a water savant who also melees? Not sure about this one, guess it’s a flavor item so I really don’t care. Doubt I’m alone.

Staff of the Necromancer – Awesome item, definitely a main weapon for most PMs and Necro Archmages.
Without upping the ML I suppose it is too much to ask for a higher nullification value, but will point out that here is ANOTHER item with spell pen on it, which is redundant with so many others. The only thing I would change: the Lesser Augmentation IX doesn’t seem to fit the flavor of the item, and if people are going to be trying for max caster level on something most people will be switching out to an Arcane Augmentation IX item. Why not make something like Greater Necromantic Augmentation IX : +3 to your caster level for necromancy spells only. Power wise it would be the same but make so much more sense for an actual necromancer.

Holy Symbol of Lolth – Obviously a flavor item, I suppose it would be useful to a negative energy specced offensive casting FVS or Cleric. I don’t see too many build like that, but whatever.

Seal of House Szind – Boring and lame. Everything this has most casters will get a better version of somewhere else, except maybe the Wizardry IX. So basically this is a 25 extra spellpoint ring if you DON’T wear the spidersilk robes. Why not make this something like: +10 int or CHR, or +5 insight INT or CHR. And nothing else. If those are too high for the devs to stomach, I would suggest a complete rework otf the item. House Szind is necromancers, so how about something that will work well with the staff of the necromancer. If it were me, I would make:
Seal of House Szind - Ring: Wizardry IX, Boon of Undeath (as per Mabar robes), DR10 (Bludgeon +Magic), Set Bonus with Staff of Necromancer: When both items are equipped you gain Nullification 120, Greater Spell Resistance IX, and Arcane Augmentation IX. If you take my above suggestion about the Greater Necromantic Augmentation I’d leave this part off and add maybe Superior False Life instead.

Blade of the High Priestess – Kinda the same as icerazor. For a finesse build caster/fighter? ? Not sure about this one, guess it’s a flavor item so I really don’t care. Doubt I’m alone.

Green Dragonscale Robe: Mostly good as it is. I’m sad that it does not have some corrosion and acid lore effect on it like the red dragonscale from House K, but I guess the Cormyrian Red doesn’t have that stuff for combustion either. I wish they both had caster bonuses to make them more appealing to casters. Maybe one day we will have Eberron based Epic Green Dragon scale armor.
I think though, that these armors should be upgradeable to be part of the war wizard, druid, cleric, monk, and dragon knight sets like the other named armors in the pack. Maybe even to be part of the planar focus sets. Even if it is hard to accomplish in game (think 20-30 heroic commendations) it should be possible.

Mathermune
07-23-2012, 03:09 PM
Warning LONG post ahead:

It really seems like this update is all melee love, and that all the thinking about spell casters went into the spell power system and not into designing gear.

If you are telling me that casters are underpowered and keeping a straight face at the same time. Then I'm afraid I must respectfully disagree.

Any gear can be optimized if it doesn't fit your build 100% For example. What if the Tier 3 epic bracers of wind were actually epic bracers of FORCE! Then my rune arm and blade barriers would be even better!

This is not what you're saying I appreciate that, I admit I've exaggerated your point for emphasis, but the difference is one of scale, not principle.

You don't want the items. Don't use them. Every named item cannot be a masterpiece. It devalues the whole game otherwise.

LordPiglet
07-23-2012, 03:13 PM
Warning LONG post ahead:


Holy Symbol of Lolth – Obviously a flavor item, I suppose it would be useful to a negative energy specced offensive casting FVS or Cleric. I don’t see too many build like that, but whatever.

cut a bunch out. You obviously don't realize that Radiance affects light and alignment based spells (I.E. divine punhishment) and that blade barrer and cometfall benefit from impulse. In other words as far more then a flavor item and negative spec'd divine...

Rawel_San
07-23-2012, 03:25 PM
Realistically: I strongly doubt anyone will use the planar foci as end game items. Maybe the prowess ones
just because +4 to-hit/dam is good but even then.

There are two main reasons for this: Swapping weapons and trinket slot in use.
You have to be wielding the weapon. Almost everyone I know playing end game swaps weapons ALL the
time the only exception possibly being eSoS users and even they tend to at least have an undead beater.
None of the new weapons seems like it will beat out situational weapons such as holy burst of greater banes
or in some cases even lightning strikes though mornh with the proper enhancements might
come close even then I'd like to see the comparison against HB <metal> of G<>B's. This means
20-30% of the time you wouldn't have the bonus.

Casters are even worse of with swapping I tend to swap between 4-5 staves plus a conc opp/shield combo and
I don't even have my alchemicals made which will be another 2 items that will need to be swapped. The twilight
will be a must have item for the +3 enchantment of course but I certainly won't be using it anywhere near
full time. And there is absolutely no way I'm giving up litany for the pathetic bonus that the set gives.

The way I'm looking at all these sets is that they are pretty much free upgrades for new end game players to
help bridge the gap. Some of the named items dropping are better, though many are niche and/or swap
and quite a few of them are just outright bad: House szind seal, the blades (though they are much fun when
being swung on a caster.:D), icerazor/pale rod.

On the other hand given how incredibly easy all of this loot is to get compared to say alchemicals I can see
why it's not particularly powerful. I'm just sort of hoping that in the long term we will be seeing seals/shards
whatever you want to call it dropping from the epic/elites to upgrade the items into actual end game gear.
Just my 2 copper,
Rawel

budalic
07-23-2012, 03:28 PM
Staff of the Necromancer – Awesome item, definitely a main weapon for most PMs and Necro Archmages.
Without upping the ML I suppose it is too much to ask for a higher nullification value, but will point out that here is ANOTHER item with spell pen on it, which is redundant with so many others. The only thing I would change: the Lesser Augmentation IX doesn’t seem to fit the flavor of the item, and if people are going to be trying for max caster level on something most people will be switching out to an Arcane Augmentation IX item. Why not make something like Greater Necromantic Augmentation IX : +3 to your caster level for necromancy spells only. Power wise it would be the same but make so much more sense for an actual necromancer.

Caster level affects spell penetration. Power wise, it would be much better.


Seal of House Szind – Boring and lame. Everything this has most casters will get a better version of somewhere else, except maybe the Wizardry IX. So basically this is a 25 extra spellpoint ring if you DON’T wear the spidersilk robes. Why not make this something like: +10 int or CHR, or +5 insight INT or CHR. And nothing else. If those are too high for the devs to stomach, I would suggest a complete rework otf the item. House Szind is necromancers, so how about something that will work well with the staff of the necromancer. If it were me, I would make:
Seal of House Szind - Ring: Wizardry IX, Boon of Undeath (as per Mabar robes), DR10 (Bludgeon +Magic), Set Bonus with Staff of Necromancer: When both items are equipped you gain Nullification 120, Greater Spell Resistance IX, and Arcane Augmentation IX. If you take my above suggestion about the Greater Necromantic Augmentation I’d leave this part off and add maybe Superior False Life instead.

Perhaps somebody wants those effects in ring slot? It's a decent item, useful in some gear setups. Your set item bonus would make it unquestionable best-in-slot for any pale master using staff of necromancer, and I'm not sure I'd be fine with that...

Susalona
07-23-2012, 03:50 PM
Warning LONG post ahead:

It really seems like this update is all melee love


Melees did get some long awaited love in MotU, but most casters are more powerful than ever thanks to EDs, so they're not really gaining any ground here.




War Wizard's Bracers and War Wizard's Amulet: I'm sorry, but these are so bad I wouldn't even recommend to a new player that they get them. Here are several reasons. They are obviously meant to be considered as a pair, so that's how I will critique them:

-snip-

3. redundant/useless effects:
on the necklace: +6 protection? ok maybe some people will now be trying to get some AC on their casters, but they are still definately the minority, and items for them do not need to be on one of the flagship gearsets for a major expansion. Spell Focus Mastery +1? Cmon, any caster who is trying at all to have decent DCs has AT LEAST a +2 focus on the spell schools they focus on. These can be gotten easily from many sources, even crafted. If your crafting skills arent high enough, find someone to do it for you. If you play on Argonessen, contact Xadins and I will make them for you. If you want to have a spell focus mastery, make it +2 like the Epic Staff of Inner Sight. If that make sit too powerful, take off one of these other useless effects to compensate. +1 is almost insulting on an epic caster.

On the bracers: +9 armor already commented on that. Spell penetration VIII? Why? There are lots of items with this already, including robes, scepters, q-staves, necklaces (Epic Torc again) and more. Most casters don’t need this and a 3-piece set rarely is gonna consolidate slots. Make it Greater spell pen 7 or lesser spell pen 9, those are at least a little rarer.



I agree that the War Wizard items are horrendous. The worst offenders here are the use of three slots for effects that can be found on one tier 3 greensteel item that most casters will make no matter what for the con-opp effect. The spell pen 8 is a slap in the face, and of course the oh so valuable neck slot must be in play for the set bonus. The divine set is only slightly less bad and also monopolizes the neck slot (Seriously? Not ONE spell power bonus on the cleric items? Not even devotion? And of course no spell pen or spell focus for offensive divines.)

Nothing about these items or the set bonus makes them good enough to drop the torc for. Besides, my cleric will be wearing the +8 wis spidersilk robes to max her DC's, which is vastly superior to the cleric set armor. The only reason my cleric is wearing the ring is because the slot was free and is a convenient place to get +2 wis.




Holy Symbol of Lolth – Obviously a flavor item, I suppose it would be useful to a negative energy specced offensive casting FVS or Cleric. I don’t see too many build like that, but whatever.



I agree with LordPiglet, you are way off base here. This item is fantastic slot consolidation for a divine. The only main spell power type missing here is devotion, which you can put on a head or weapon slot. Yes, the necro bonus is less useful, but will still boost damage on a saved destruction/slay living. It also gives implement bonus, which will allow me to keep my current Greenblade/Templar's Bulwark setup.

Shmuel
07-23-2012, 04:25 PM
If you are telling me that casters are underpowered and keeping a straight face at the same time. Then I'm afraid I must respectfully disagree.



I'm not saying that. I'm saying that the named items for casters in THIS update is **** compared to the items for melee types and could be tweaked a little to be much better.

CaptainSpacePony
07-23-2012, 04:26 PM
I agree that the War Wizard items are horrendous. The worst offenders here are the use of three slots for effects that can be found on one tier 3 greensteel item that most casters will make no matter what for the con-opp effect. The spell pen 8 is a slap in the face, and of course the oh so valuable neck slot must be in play for the set bonus. The divine set is only slightly less bad and also monopolizes the neck slot (Seriously? Not ONE spell power bonus on the cleric items? Not even devotion? And of course no spell pen or spell focus for offensive divines.)

Nothing about these items or the set bonus makes them good enough to drop the torc for. Besides, my cleric will be wearing the +8 wis spidersilk robes to max her DC's, which is vastly superior to the cleric set armor. The only reason my cleric is wearing the ring is because the slot was free and is a convenient place to get +2 wis.


I agree fully with the quoted portion.

Shmuel
07-23-2012, 04:26 PM
cut a bunch out. You obviously don't realize that Radiance affects light and alignment based spells (I.E. divine punhishment) and that blade barrer and cometfall benefit from impulse. In other words as far more then a flavor item and negative spec'd divine...

I don't usually play divines so I will have to agree with the consensus here. Perhaps its better than I realized and fine as is.

Jandric
07-23-2012, 04:47 PM
Warning LONG post ahead:

It really seems like this update is all melee love, and that all the thinking about spell casters went into the spell power system and not into designing gear.

Now that I have had a bit of time to play the new content and look at the various synergies between gear, character abilities, and epic destinies, I think it is fair to say that the new items for casters need some improvements (to put it mildly).

The main reason for this is that the abilities on them and the way those abilities can/cannot be slotted together makes them almost useless to an epic-geared caster. Many of them are redundant. I don't see this as the case with the new sets/items for rogues, monks, or fighters, so I think perhaps the caster stuff was maybe just done last, right before a deadline or something (trying to be charitable here).:rolleyes:

I rarely make long posts like this, but *** here goes. Here are the items and the issues I see:

AS THEY ARE:

Alarphon's Staff: Quarterstaff 2(1d6)+6 Elemental Manipulation (+90 Spell Power to Acid, Cold, Electric, and Fire Spells), Greater Arcane Lore, Spell Selection for Alarphon's Staff.

War Wizard's Bracers: Bracers: Armor +9, Spell Penetration VIII, Elemental Spell Power, Greater Elemental Energy, Battle Arcanist Set Bonus- Battle Arcanist 3 Items: -10% Spell Point Cost

War Wizard's Amulet: Necklace: Protection +6, Spell Focus Mastery +1, greater Elemental Spell Power, Battle Arcanist Set Bonus.

War Wizard's Robe: Robe: Resistance +6, Archmagi, Elemental Absorbtion 5%, Concentration +15, Battle Arcanist Set Bonus.

Spidersilk Robes: Robe: 1 of [+8 INT, +8CHR, +3 Insightful INT, +3 Insightful CHR], Armor +9, Potency +72, Wizardry 9, Resistance +6, Concentration +15, Toughness (Can be upgraded to be part of the Battle Arcanist Set).

Planar Focus of Erudition: Trinket: 1 of [+8 INT, +8CHR, +3 Insightful INT, +3 Insightful CHR]: Planar Focus Erudition Set Bonus: Spell Penetration IX, +250 Spell Points (enhancement bonus, which makes me wonder if it stacks with Wizard Energy of the Scholar or Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded),+15 Psionic Bonus to Universal Spell Power.

Twilight, Element of Magic: Quarterstaff +7, 2.5(1d8) 20X2, +21 Implement Bonus to Universal Spell Power, +120 Equipment Bonus to Force Spell Power, Major Spell Focus to Enchantment and Evocation (+3DC) Arcane Augmentation IX, Greater Arcane Lore, Planar Focus Set Bonus (as above).

Pale Rod : Club: 2[1d6], +6, +18 Universal Spell Power, Nullification, Superior Void Lore, Improved Light Resistance

Icerazor - Sickle: 2[1d6]+6, Spellcasting Implement +18, Glaciation +102, Major Ice Lore, Slicing, Icy Burst, Freezing Ice

Staff of the Necromancer - Quarterstaff: 2[1d6]+6, +18 Spellcasting Implement, Potency +68, Nullification +102, Spell Penetration IX, Lesser Arcane Augmentation IX, Major Necromancy Focus

Holy Symbol of Lolth - Trinket: Spellcasting Implement +15, Nullification +102, Radiance +102, Impulse +102, Exceptional Charisma +1, Exceptional Wisdom +1, Embrace of the Spider Queen

Seal of House Szind - Ring: Lesser Random Ability Score (enhancement +7 or insightful +2), Potency +68, Wizardry IX

Green Dragonscale Robe: Robe: +6AC, Toughness, Superior Acid Resistance, Acid Absorption 20%, Resistance +6, Power Store
Blade of the High Priestess - Dagger: 2[1d4]+6, +18 Universal Spell Power, Potency +72, Improved Paralyzing, Wisdom, Wounding, Slay Living

Ok Let me comment on each of these now:


Alarphon's Staff: Leave alone, as it is, it is probably a nice STARTING POINT item for new or poorly equipped spellcasters which will help them contribute in epic content until they can improve their gear.

War Wizard's Bracers and War Wizard's Amulet: I'm sorry, but these are so bad I wouldn't even recommend to a new player that they get them. Here are several reasons. They are obviously meant to be considered as a pair, so that's how I will critique them:

1. Greensteel effects on non-greensteel. Ok, not everyone has all the shroud items they want, and it would be nice to find ways to replace some of those items eventually. But who, really, wants a PAIR of items at EPIC level that provide the same number of spellpoints as ONE greensteel item? As far as the Elemental Energy, obvioulsy many people have not run 20 shrouds, even if that sounds weird to people like myself that have run 100s of them, and have not yet had the chance to make a second greensteel hitpoint item. When they do, they will want to make one for 45 HP, not just 20.

2. Slotting Issues:
Using a necklace for one of these basically precludes using the Torc of Prince Rayum , which is one of the most useful and important items for a spellcaster even in its non-epic form. Every new player who wants to make a good caster should be trying to get one, and it is not hard to do.

The bracers may be a decent spot for an item, but why does it need to have armor +9 on it? Almost every robe in the game now has an armor bonus already on it, making armor bracers pretty much obsolete, even if you are in the small minority of people concerned about AC on your caster. Even the spidersilk robes has it.

3. redundant/useless effects:
on the necklace: +6 protection? ok maybe some people will now be trying to get some AC on their casters, but they are still definately the minority, and items for them do not need to be on one of the flagship gearsets for a major expansion. Spell Focus Mastery +1? Cmon, any caster who is trying at all to have decent DCs has AT LEAST a +2 focus on the spell schools they focus on. These can be gotten easily from many sources, even crafted. If your crafting skills arent high enough, find someone to do it for you. If you play on Argonessen, contact Xadins and I will make them for you. If you want to have a spell focus mastery, make it +2 like the Epic Staff of Inner Sight. If that make sit too powerful, take off one of these other useless effects to compensate. +1 is almost insulting on an epic caster.

On the bracers: +9 armor already commented on that. Spell penetration VIII? Why? There are lots of items with this already, including robes, scepters, q-staves, necklaces (Epic Torc again) and more. Most casters don’t need this and a 3-piece set rarely is gonna consolidate slots. Make it Greater spell pen 7 or lesser spell pen 9, those are at least a little rarer.

War Wizard’s Robe: Other than the fact that it seems like nearly every caster item on it has Archmagi these days, it is an ok item for a NEW, poorly geared caster. The +6 resist and 5% elemental absorbtion are nice MINOR bonuses. Concentration +15 is actually pretty nice, as that is a difficult to slot effect on many casters. I would make 2 changes: 1)give it a +8 AC bonus so that you can take the armor effect off the bracers, drop Archmagi if you have to in order to compensate for power of the item. No one is going to care because they probably (like my caster) already have about 2-3 archmagi effects on other gear they are already using. 2) substitute something else for archmagi if you don’t remove it. Maybe Greater Arcane Lore?
The Battle Arcanist Set Bonus is NICE! I want it. But not badly enough to wear all this garbage! Please help!

Spidersilk Robes: Fine as they are.

Planar Focus of Erudition: Trinket: 1 of [+8 INT, +8CHR, +3 Insightful INT, +3 Insightful CHR]: Planar Focus Erudition Set Bonus.
Overall a great item, no changes needed to it. As far as the set bonus, a few tweaks could help a lot. Upping the set bonus to GREATER spell pen 9 would make it stand out a bit more, since spell pen 9 is already available in several other places and will be redundant on this set for many casters. If making it greater spell pen 9 would be too OP, drop spell pen entirely form this set (as most casters have this covered already elsewhere) and up the psionic bonus to 25 so we can feel less bad about completely tossing the now hugely nerfed Eardwellers so many of us farmed for so long.

Twilight, Element of Magic: Great Item, although to set it apart from some relatively easily obtained ML12 and ML14 items maybe make it MAJOR arcane lore instead of greater. People complained tirelessly about this item in beta, as the +120 equipment bonus effect was random. Like I would have done as a DM if my players were complaining that much, the devs obliged us but made it static as a force enhancement, arguably the LEAST useful type (unless you’re a FVS) HAH LOL devs! That is a funny and appropriate response, but maybe now that everyone has calmed down we should revisit the issue. I don’t want a random effect, and I don’t think anyone does. Why not just eliminate this entirely and give the staff something like Potency +100. That way it’s a great all-around staff and will only be switched out occasionally for max damage of a particular element type when needed. And there is no need for random effects.

Pale Rod : Cool item but minimally useful. My pale master will definitely want this, but would be so much happier if it did NOT have the Nullification 90 (as there are plenty of other ways to get this relatively low powered effect) and instead had light resist 40, or better yet, 20% light resist. Or maybe if it gave “Boon to Undeath” like the mabar robes do. I’ve been waiting to see that effect somewhere else if I am going to upgrade to higher level robe. I regularly get one-shotted on the new epics by light spells when in form and have about as many HP as I can without being a dwarf or WF. I’d love some meaningful protection and would happily grind away for it. But 20 resist doesn’t help me when I get hit for 900 points of light damage by searing light or am getting clicks of 250 from divine punishment.

Icerazor – For a water savant who also melees? Not sure about this one, guess it’s a flavor item so I really don’t care. Doubt I’m alone.

Staff of the Necromancer – Awesome item, definitely a main weapon for most PMs and Necro Archmages.
Without upping the ML I suppose it is too much to ask for a higher nullification value, but will point out that here is ANOTHER item with spell pen on it, which is redundant with so many others. The only thing I would change: the Lesser Augmentation IX doesn’t seem to fit the flavor of the item, and if people are going to be trying for max caster level on something most people will be switching out to an Arcane Augmentation IX item. Why not make something like Greater Necromantic Augmentation IX : +3 to your caster level for necromancy spells only. Power wise it would be the same but make so much more sense for an actual necromancer.

Holy Symbol of Lolth – Obviously a flavor item, I suppose it would be useful to a negative energy specced offensive casting FVS or Cleric. I don’t see too many build like that, but whatever.

Seal of House Szind – Boring and lame. Everything this has most casters will get a better version of somewhere else, except maybe the Wizardry IX. So basically this is a 25 extra spellpoint ring if you DON’T wear the spidersilk robes. Why not make this something like: +10 int or CHR, or +5 insight INT or CHR. And nothing else. If those are too high for the devs to stomach, I would suggest a complete rework otf the item. House Szind is necromancers, so how about something that will work well with the staff of the necromancer. If it were me, I would make:
Seal of House Szind - Ring: Wizardry IX, Boon of Undeath (as per Mabar robes), DR10 (Bludgeon +Magic), Set Bonus with Staff of Necromancer: When both items are equipped you gain Nullification 120, Greater Spell Resistance IX, and Arcane Augmentation IX. If you take my above suggestion about the Greater Necromantic Augmentation I’d leave this part off and add maybe Superior False Life instead.

Blade of the High Priestess – Kinda the same as icerazor. For a finesse build caster/fighter? ? Not sure about this one, guess it’s a flavor item so I really don’t care. Doubt I’m alone.

Green Dragonscale Robe: Mostly good as it is. I’m sad that it does not have some corrosion and acid lore effect on it like the red dragonscale from House K, but I guess the Cormyrian Red doesn’t have that stuff for combustion either. I wish they both had caster bonuses to make them more appealing to casters. Maybe one day we will have Eberron based Epic Green Dragon scale armor.
I think though, that these armors should be upgradeable to be part of the war wizard, druid, cleric, monk, and dragon knight sets like the other named armors in the pack. Maybe even to be part of the planar focus sets. Even if it is hard to accomplish in game (think 20-30 heroic commendations) it should be possible.

Melee's needed some love, so I no problem with the shinies they received.The War Wizard set, however, is completely unimpressive, and uses very poor slot selections that compete with best-in-game items. New under-geared players that used the Stone of Experience and are light on gear may like them, but even moderately geared casters will find that their "Epic" set loses its appeal very quickly. The problems are:

1. Almost all serious casters will make a Concordant Opposition item in Shroud, and usually pair it with either better SP or better HP then the set.

2. It uses the necklace slot, which competes with Torc of Price Raiyum.

3. It offers Spell Pen VIII, when Spell Pen IX with ML 18 is available by running the House C wilderness for< 1 hour.

It really just seems to amalgamate together a bunch of inferior versions already available bonuses with some fringe benefits that don't make up the difference. I usually like "step-up" gear that gives players just starting out nice bonuses that are inferior to the hard to get, best in class raid loot- but this is not what I'm looking for out of the 1 epic set that is geared for my class.

soulaeon
07-23-2012, 06:25 PM
It seems more like all the love went to wizards, not casters. Melee gear seemed fine, I was surprised there was so much of it.
Also, why do they keep brown-nosing pale masters? They get TWO named weapons, not to mention the staves, as hardly anyone else uses them. The Spidersilk Robe vaguely looks like a sorcerer robe, and that's about it.

SirValentine
07-24-2012, 11:07 AM
Holy Symbol of Lolth – Obviously a flavor item, I suppose it would be useful to a negative energy specced offensive casting FVS or Cleric. I don’t see too many build like that, but whatever.


Maybe useful as a swap item for the Radiance during boss fights, but the rest of the time, this items compares unfavorably with the min-level-13 Litany of the Dead.

Actually...you know what would make this item pretty good? Replace it's +1 EXCEPTIONAL Cha & Wis (which can be easily slotted in tons of places) with +1 PROFANE Cha & Wis (currently ONLY available on the Litany). That would make this an attractive and competitive alternative to the Litany.

SirValentine
07-24-2012, 11:18 AM
Spidersilk Robes: Robe: 1 of [+8 INT, +8CHR, +3 Insightful INT, +3 Insightful CHR], Armor +9, Potency +72, Wizardry 9, Resistance +6, Concentration +15, Toughness (Can be upgraded to be part of the Battle Arcanist Set).

Planar Focus of Erudition: Trinket: 1 of [+8 INT, +8CHR, +3 Insightful INT, +3 Insightful CHR]: Planar Focus Erudition Set Bonus: Spell Penetration IX, +250 Spell Points (enhancement bonus, which makes me wonder if it stacks with Wizard Energy of the Scholar or Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded),+15 Psionic Bonus to Universal Spell Power.




Spidersilk Robes: Fine as they are.

Planar Focus of Erudition: Trinket: 1 of [+8 INT, +8CHR, +3 Insightful INT, +3 Insightful CHR]: Planar Focus Erudition Set Bonus.
Overall a great item, no changes needed to it.


I have to disagree that these 2 items are "fine".

They almost are...but for some reason they are only available with 2 of the 3 primary stats used by casters. Int and Cha, sure, but where are the Wisdom versions?

Dev cluelessness, or deliberate Cleric/FvS hate?

Based on dev comments regarding Epic Destines, and the whole Heal/Cure spellpower nerf, I'm inclined to believe the latter.

voodoogroves
07-24-2012, 11:39 AM
Not likely "hate", but maybe some serious balancing?

Yan_PL
07-25-2012, 04:45 AM
Battle Arcanist set is not worth sacrificing 3 item slots for.

As it was said spell pen 8 is slap in the face. if it was spell pen IX it could be deemed marginally useful. If we leave that out, it's straight worse than GS conc-opp SP item + Abbot staff with power store. Or pair of Alchemical caster toys (+2 augment/+3spell pen).

Spidersilk Robes with wisdom for Divines are needed. Along with option to make it part of Amunator's Blessing set.
At this point my sorc wears Spidersilk Robes, Purple Dragon Knight Helmet, and Purple Dragon Knight Gauntlets. I would benefit from making Spidersilk robes part of this set. And I believe Epic Elyd Edge powered bard would like that even more.

as for staff of the necromancer... lesser arcane augmentation IX + spell penetration IX gives benefit of Greater spell penetration IX (if you leave out stacking options) and adds 6 seconds to your haste duration (12 with extend). Variants you suggested for necromancer staff/seal of house Sizind would be overpowered. As for flavor items, there's more use for them than you'd suspect. Especially that Master's Touch makes you hit stuff 25% of the time, if not more. Hitting some stuff with attack-based debuffs might help you, when you're trying to conserve sp.

Overall, I agree that Commendation sets need a bump, and There should be an option for Divine Caster spidersilk robes. But some of ideas in opening post are wayyy offf...