You don't need to max out multiple epic destinies

[Thrudh]

I see maxing out multiple epic destinies as a goal for the power-gamers, like completionist. I don't see it being necessary in any form for us "normal" gamers.

People keep talking about how much grind and how much experience is required to get all those twist of fate points...

But recognize that maxing out one destiny and getting two Tier I twists of fate makes for a very solid character, able to run epic elite and contribute significantly. Twists of fate are nice bonuses, but the real power comes from the top level destiny abilities.

Two Tier I twists offers quite a bit, and is fairly easy to achieve.

The grind gets larger and larger past that. But you don't have to do it. Just like you don't have to get completionist and still have a rock-solid character.

[Siro]

Also it is the kind of thing that can be safely left to later lives if one is ready to TR (or experiencing repetition penalties in epic content).

[deahamlet]

I see maxing out multiple epic destinies as a goal for the power-gamers, like completionist. I don't see it being necessary in any form for us "normal" gamers.

People keep talking about how much grind and how much experience is required to get all those twist of fate points...

But recognize that maxing out one destiny and getting two Tier I twists of fate makes for a very solid character, able to run epic elite and contribute significantly. Twists of fate are nice bonuses, but the real power comes from the top level destiny abilities.

Two Tier I twists offers quite a bit, and is fairly easy to achieve.

The grind gets larger and larger past that. But you don't have to do it. Just like you don't have to get completionist and still have a rock-solid character.

Actually, some people have to.

Case 1: my artificer. She does xbows and casting, she wants shiradi as primary, shadowdancer to swap to at times and draconic for solo or the twists. From draconic to shiradi is 5 destinies. She also wants some DCs from magister, but let's call that icing on the cake.
Case 2: my FvS. She used to be a caster evoker build, as that she needed to go from exalted all the way to magister and draconic. She needs ea maxed for healing raid duties, that's 7 destinies if we include magister and draconic. That is all to keep viability on top of new u14 epics being a pain on evoker without pls. If going melee, 4 destinies.
Case 3: my divine archer, ea to shiradi: 5 destinies.


No, don't have to grind the WHOLE map, but I'm getting quite far across the map. My sorc and wizard feel like a calm breeze by far.

Grind time yay!

[Ape_Man]

YOU don't need to.

Others do to get the twists they want.

Why is your way of playing the game right?

[DeafeningWhisper]

Currently working on getting one more fate point to finish off leveling my bardcher, I need one more to be able to twist Acute Instincts on top of Primal Scream from Fury and then just run with Shiradi.

Of course if you want higher tier twist you have little choice besides leveling several destinies.

[Thrudh]

YOU don't need to.

Others do to get the twists they want.

Why is your way of playing the game right?

Serious miscommunication here.

I'm saying exactly the same thing as you... There are multiple ways of playing the game "right".

Too many posts on these boards talk about how much work and time it takes to max out all destinies, and act like that is the only choice. Like every good player is going to have to reach that goal someday.

You never saw people complain about completionist, about how it was too much grind and needed to be changed.

My point is that EDs are just like completionist. You don't need completionist to have a rock-solid end-game character, and you don't need to max out every destiny either.

If you WANT to, go ahead... but no one needs it to have a very good character.

[oweieie]

The grind gets larger and larger past that. But you don't have to do it. Just like you don't have to get completionist and still have a rock-solid character.

So do the Thrudh method. Get two level 1 twists then quit.

[justagame]

Indeed, I'm currently trying to find that happy medium in between the twists I'd really LIKE to have, and the ones that my schedule will permit me to have lol

[Ertay]

So do the Thrudh method. Get two level 1 twists then quit.

Yea, OP seems very clueless that different classes have completely different demands, and thinks because his gimp build allegedly works only having 2 lvl1 twists everyone should be content with that.


Also,


Twists of fate are nice bonuses, but the real power comes from the top level destiny abilities.


is just utter ******** for many classes, really don't know how to put it any better.
"My bike is fine with only 2 tires, people really don't need to get all 4 for their cars."

[wax_on_wax_off]

Yea, OP seems very clueless that different classes have completely different demands, and thinks because his gimp build allegedly works only having 2 lvl1 twists everyone should be content with that.


Also,



is just utter ******** for many classes, really don't know how to put it any better.
"My bike is fine with only 2 tires, people really don't need to get all 4 for their cars."

The real message I'm getting from the OP is to stop whining about objectives that are designed to be a grind for dedicated players, if you can't build a character which suits your play time allowance then maybe it's time to reroll.

[NytCrawlr]

"My bike is fine with only 2 tires, people really don't need to get all 4 for their cars."

Gross exaggeration of what the OP is trying to get across.

Wish I could +1 ya Trudh.

[toaf]

all i can say is no need to top off a tree, youll just feel sad when notice the waisted xp. sure max tree is demigodly but lost xp is noobish

[Aldieb]

I'm the mad one who decides to get Sense Weakness :D
It's tier 4, I'll need 10 points only for this..

FarmFarmFarm

[HAL]

So do the Thrudh method. Get two level 1 twists then quit.


Yea, OP seems very clueless that different classes have completely different demands, and thinks because his gimp build allegedly works only having 2 lvl1 twists everyone should be content with that.

I think there are some reading comprehension issues here. Thrudh says "you don't HAVE to" (emphasis mine), not "you aren't SUPPOSED to". There is a difference between pointing out that not everyone is expected to do something and telling people what to do...:rolleyes:

[Vormaerin]

All he is saying is that "having to have" certain twists is like saying you "have to have" certain past lives.

Obviously, its good to have those past life feats. Its good to have Twists from all over the map. But neither is "required" unless you choose to think so.

Just because every destiny *can* be done in a single life doesn't mean that it is the only way to do it. That's why destiny ranks don't reset with a TR.

[slimkj]

I must have everything now, so I can complain in three weeks that I'm bored and content doesn't come out fast enough. /satires

[Emili]

My point is that EDs are just like completionist.

On steroids maybe. ;)

Fact being if you plan things right you do not need to TR over and over for effective DC, Dps, Tacticals, Saves... whatever.

Truth though the way I see things, ED's are more powerful than a single TR life... an' multiple ED's can outweight a completionist, Why?

Just look at what one tier I, II or II twist does let alone a tier IV twist... Want a DC in the 50's or more ED and twist them in, Want AC without adding a ton of items ED's + twists, Saves ... ya, ED plus Twists, and top it all - swapable for the tasks you're about to undertake.

On Lamannia... I took a second life Spell Singer bard in Shadowdancer (she had 24 points in every ed) with borrowed twists from Fate, Draconic, Magistar, Solo'd all of Sschindylryn Epic Elite all alone. She was Impervious to every spell tossed at her, her saves all in the 50's+ her DC's alike, her AC and mitigation beyond what any trash Mob could handle - slow because her main damage via melee it all down but she was still goddess like even compared to the quest's bosses. A FvS or any more powerful base class would fair far better.

No, you do not need every ed, those most imortant to your build, aye, those similar to you build gravy, but I would tell the power and flexibility of swaping to whatever and twisting in per quest make the character's heroic level seem tedious an' possibly mundane ... be easily as much power of not more in a single ED as a heroic level's enhancement lines.

Does that mean all are entitled and obligated to chase such in build? Of course not... be happy with what you're playing, be thankful for the company you keep online and have fun... be the journey, not the destination.

[Chai]

First off, there were people within a few days of release with all destinies leveled and maxed out. Takes a long time? I disagree.

The irony here is if they didnt make it take *some* time to gain those fate points, the majority would have leveled them out, and then began posting threads about how theres nothing to do, the games too easy, etc.

[Chai]

On steroids maybe. ;)

Fact being if you plan things right you do not need to TR over and over for effective DC, Dps, Tacticals, Saves... whatever.

Truth though the way I see things, ED's are more powerful than a single TR life... an' multiple ED's can outweight a completionist, Why?

Just look at what one tier I, II or II twist does let alone a tier IV twist... Want a DC in the 50's or more ED and twist them in, Want AC without adding a ton of items ED's + twists, Saves ... ya, ED plus Twists, and top it all - swapable for the tasks you're about to undertake.

On Lamannia... I took a second life Spell Singer bard in Shadowdancer (she had 24 points in every ed) with borrowed twists from Fate, Draconic, Magistar, Solo'd all of Sschindylryn Epic Elite all alone. She was Impervious her saves all in the 50's + her DC's alike, her AC and mitigation beyond what the Mob could handle - slow because her main damage wa meleeing it all down but she was still like a goddess compared to even the bosses.

No, you do not need every ed, those most imortant to your build, aye, those similar to you build gravy, but I would tell the power and flexibility of swaping to whatever and twisting in per quest make the character's heroic level seem tedious an' possibly mundane ... be easily as much power of not more in a single ED as a heroic level's enhancement lines.


This.

People griping about how long it takes to level EDs? They should be rejoicing about how much easier it is to ED grind than it is to TR grind, and on top of that, the benefits of the easier ED grind are much higher than the TR grind.

One of the bards I play is an old school 28 point bard, and once the ED system was released, I realized I may never have to TR him, evAr!!!

[rimble]

I'm the mad one who decides to get Sense Weakness :D
It's tier 4, I'll need 10 points only for this..

Yeah it's that **** Sense Weakness! ARGH!

The only thing I really resent is playing unattractive/useless-to-me EDs to gain Fate Points.

I'm just focusing on other grinds (equipment and Epic tokens) and letting the XP trickle in. If I didn't have other goals to distract me, I'd probably be pretty frustrated grinding through the EDs too as that all in itself doesn't seem to constitute a very interesting 'end game' to me.

[Kmnh]

Some of the big stuff takes a lot of grind to do.

Haste boost on a barbarian requires opening the way to dreadnought and leveling it. If you want to twist it, that will cost at least 6 points, 11 if you want the other 2 slots open. That's... 33 levels?

Twists of fate add a lot more to your character than the completionist feat does.

That said, you don't have to go far out of your way to get destiny xp. You can earn it at cap, so your character will get there at some point, by doing whatever you enjoy doing. The grind seems a lot larger because the stuff that people know how to do doesn't pay xp.
If you could get xp by casually running VoD, HoX, The Shroud, all that content that people are used to running, there would be a lot less complaining about the grind.

[Emili]

This.

People griping about how long it takes to level EDs? They should be rejoicing about how much easier it is to ED grind than it is to TR grind, and on top of that, the benefits of the easier ED grind are much higher than the TR grind.

One of the bards I play is an old school 28 point bard, and once the ED system was released, I realized I may never have to TR him, evAr!!!

:D I collected my thoughts... as you may see.

Most of what I stated in that post, I stated before as I romped 'round closed beta and lamannia with five entirely maxed out characters... A lot of backlash, both in thought from live and beta people was 'bout the past TR xp grinds, the past gear, the past time-syncs. People do not get it... the past is the past the present holds our journey and the future our goals.

[Siro]

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/23853296.jpg

[Chette]

You don't NEED to max out multiple destinies in the same sense you don't NEED to max out ANY destinies. You don't NEED to level to 25. You don't NEED to upgrade your gear. You don't really NEED to do anything in this game.

But does maxing out multiple destinies help? Does it increase your characters power? Absolutely.

My FvS currently uses a tier 3 and two tier 2 twists, which required getting the maximum available fate points and also using the tome of fate. She didn't NEED to do it, but she'd have noticeably lower spell penetration and/or DCs and not be able to absolutely thrash epic elite drow with such efficacy if she didn't.

Every increase in power for your character comes at some cost, usually in the form of time, resources, or some combination thereof. Where to stop and say "this is enough" is a personal choice, and neither you nor I are in a position to say where that point is for somebody else.

[Tirisha]

Some people feel like they need too. *to include myself* because they don't like waste.

Example: Whatever quest I wanna do, if it's easily completable while in any Destiny then it would be wasteful to be in my main destiny and get no XP for something that would otherwise give me XP. This means I either grind XP like a mad man or am stuck not in the destiny I want to play for a very very long time.....

Not playing the destiny I wanna choose is not fun. Sure I could just say F it and just play the destiny I wanna play but for me that's not fun either.

[Thrudh]

Some people feel like they need too. *to include myself* because they don't like waste.

Example: Whatever quest I wanna do, if it's easily completable while in any Destiny then it would be wasteful to be in my main destiny and get no XP for something that would otherwise give me XP. This means I either grind XP like a mad man or am stuck not in the destiny I want to play for a very very long time.....

Not playing the destiny I wanna choose is not fun. Sure I could just say F it and just play the destiny I wanna play but for me that's not fun either.

I can see this...

I have about a million more exp to get until my main is "good enough" in my mind with two Tier I and one Tier II twists. And then I'll go back to my main destiny... (most of my alts will be doing just two Tier Is or maybe one Tier I and one Tier II)

But I hear you... I can definitely see myself feeling like I'm "wasting" xp in the back of my mind when doing a fairly easy quest but using my capped main destiny.

Yes, we can switch back and forth, but right now that's pretty buggy. And besides, it's a real pain to lose all those hard-earned abilities. Advancement should always be forward, not two steps back, three steps forward.

I think the devs really should look at the ED leveling design... Maybe we could get half exp in a different destiny when in a capped destiny.

[Chette]

I also really don't the the comparison between maxing epic destinies and completionis is in any way appropriate.

In order to achieve completionist you need to TR your character in a completely different class. You need to spend a significantly amount of time basically not playing your character as it was intended. Additionally, during all of this time, you are running content that you would not normally run. You are not able to raid, run epics and endgame, farm for appropriate loot, etc. You are basically out of the game for the amount of time you are farming your past lives.

Epic Destinies are nothing like that. At any time if you want to play your character in your main destiny you need only visit the fatespinner. A primary wizard that is currently TRed as a level 7 rogue can't simply swap back to his level 25 wizard life in order to go complete an epic Lord of Blades.

You can get your epic destinies leveled up while you are running whatever content you want. Don't feel like leveling for a while? Swap back to your main destiny. Going to be running some easy content, or loot farming? Swap to something you want XP in.

It's incredibly flexible and easy to move around your destinies and level them up at your own pace.

[voodoogroves]

I think it totally depends. I know kinda what twists I'd like to have for the bulk of my characters, and what destiny I'd like to end up on. Some of them are very achievable within a step or two. Some, not so much.

[Scraap]

I think the devs really should look at the ED leveling design... Maybe we could get half exp in a different destiny when in a capped destiny.

Now there's an interesting thought for caped destinies:

(1/2 xp)/(linked, uncapped destinies)

So Fatesinger, for instance, were it caped would give xp/6 to Magister, DI, and Shadowdancer. If you had two capped, xp/4 for the remaining two.
Dreadnaught, Shiradi, GMof, and Shadow.
ect.

Not sure how that'd work with ones deeper in the tree. 1/4 after the one right next to it's capped?

[Ancient]

\I think the devs really should look at the ED leveling design... Maybe we could get half exp in a different destiny when in a capped destiny.
Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes!!!

For my FVS, it isn't even like playing the same build when I switch destinies.

Plus Also, half the time I switch destinies, I run to my quests/whatever, enter and think... oh twists... darn.

[DeafeningWhisper]

Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes!!!

For my FVS, it isn't even like playing the same build when I switch destinies.

Plus Also, half the time I switch destinies, I run to my quests/whatever, enter and think... oh twists... darn.


I really wish we could alocate which destiny gets the exp rather then the active one been the default.

Leveling useless destinies would be less painfull if I could have my main destiny active.

Not that having to level useless destinies is all that logical to begin with.

High priest: "You have been a good herald to our deity, but to make more progress in casting divine magic you most first take this dagger and slit people's throats while hidding in shadows"

FvS: "... okay, I guess"

[Postumus]

All he is saying is that "having to have" certain twists is like saying you "have to have" certain past lives.

Obviously, its good to have those past life feats. Its good to have Twists from all over the map. But neither is "required" unless you choose to think so.


Posts like these and Thrudh's demonstrate neither of you appreciate the prevailing mentality of many forumites. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRTkCHE1sS4)

[justagame]

Yes, we can switch back and forth, but right now that's pretty buggy. And besides, it's a real pain to lose all those hard-earned abilities. Advancement should always be forward, not two steps back, three steps forward.

I think the devs really should look at the ED leveling design... Maybe we could get half exp in a different destiny when in a capped destiny.

That's the main issue I have with the grind right now. It's not the amount. It's that you continually lose all your abilities while doing it.

The saving grace of the TR grind, is that the journey itself is fun. Don't have those 3 ranger past lives done yet? no problem, you'll enjoy getting a little but more power each time through. You never take a step backwards.

The power in the 21-25 game lies much more with epic destinies than with epic levels. Unfortunately, you don't get to enjoy the abilities you accumulate -- you keep losing them. Then, by the time you've come back to your "main" destiny -- the abilities you wanted the most -- you're done. You spend very little time actually playing the character you want with even some of the abilities you want.

[Enoach]

While I agree with the Principle of not NEEDING to max all destinies, I also understand the other side of why must I level a destiny that has little to no benefit to my "Heroic" class build.

However, this is the system we have to work with. So the best we can do is to find the shortest route and maybe think more along the line of what twists will give me a bigger upfront benefit that I could trade out later when I have enough fatepoints to twist in something better.

[countfitz]

I agree with a lot of people here. The real problem isn't that you have to max out all the destinies (or any, really) but that you have to get to level 3 or 4 on COMPLETELY USELESS destinies to get to YOUR destiny.

Because Turbine decided which destiny THEY THINK you belong to, but in reality it's nowhere near your real one.

Example: FvS DPS Caster. Starts on Sentinal (yes, not Exalted, because that would waste time if you want to go fast). Waste. Then Flower Sniffer. OMG, that was seriously painful. Then Dreadnought. Waste. THEN Shiradi, Max it out.

Or, Sentinal, Shadowdancer, Fatesinger, then max out Magister AND Draconic.

I think the REAL issue is there needs to be a bridge point from Exalted Angle to Magister, and from Draconic to Shiradi (and that Dreadnought really needs to link to Wild, NOT Shiradi).

Then that would fix most of these issues.

[HAL]

The power in the 21-25 game lies much more with epic destinies than with epic levels. Unfortunately, you don't get to enjoy the abilities you accumulate -- you keep losing them. Then, by the time you've come back to your "main" destiny -- the abilities you wanted the most -- you're done. You spend very little time actually playing the character you want with even some of the abilities you want.

This is the issue (emphasis mine). What is the point of getting the Destinies/Twists you want when you will essentially be done playing that character by the time you get them?!

[DarkForte]

I see maxing out multiple epic destinies as a goal for the power-gamers, like completionist. I don't see it being necessary in any form for us "normal" gamers.

People keep talking about how much grind and how much experience is required to get all those twist of fate points...

But recognize that maxing out one destiny and getting two Tier I twists of fate makes for a very solid character, able to run epic elite and contribute significantly. Twists of fate are nice bonuses, but the real power comes from the top level destiny abilities.

Two Tier I twists offers quite a bit, and is fairly easy to achieve.

The grind gets larger and larger past that. But you don't have to do it. Just like you don't have to get completionist and still have a rock-solid character.

No one is forcing you to level past 4 either. Why can't you be happy doing waterworks?

[Zyerz]

Also it is the kind of thing that can be safely left to later lives if one is ready to TR (or experiencing repetition penalties in epic content).

True that... Hehe. People complain about the challenges nerf, and how they'll never level up their ED's now... People tend to forget that in theory, the idea is for you to level up 1 or 2 ED's, TR into a new class, hit lv 20, level up a new ED, and repeat the process as many times you want. Eventually, you'll be a double completionist (ED's and Classes) badass. :p

[diamabel]

If you feel like you have to go a certain path then do it. It's your game time. Your enjoyment. But then don't complain if there is some effort involved or some degree of grind.

If the grind is too much for you then maybe rethinking the build might be in order. Maybe you tried to put too much on your platter.

[EbbOnFire]

True that... Hehe. People complain about the challenges nerf, and how they'll never level up their ED's now... People tend to forget that in theory, the idea is for you to level up 1 or 2 ED's, TR into a new class, hit lv 20, level up a new ED, and repeat the process as many times you want. Eventually, you'll be a double completionist (ED's and Classes) badass. :p

This would work better if you had the ability, when you reached level 20 on your TR, to choose a destiny that matches the class you just leveled. Instead, as I understand it, you're stuck with the very first destiny you picked on your first life, plus whatever destinies you unlocked from there.

[Thrudh]

This would work better if you had the ability, when you reached level 20 on your TR, to choose a destiny that matches the class you just leveled. Instead, as I understand it, you're stuck with the very first destiny you picked on your first life, plus whatever destinies you unlocked from there.

No, this has been proven false. You can pick a new destiny when you TR.

[Maatogaeoth]

No, this has been proven false. You can pick a new destiny when you TR.

As shown here (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=4605833&postcount=80)