The Mornhnaught: ultimate twf dps

[LeLoric]

This is not a build thread although I may eventually add some different examples of what to do with it. It is more just to examine the extremely powerful connection between the new raid item Mornh and the epic destiny Legendary Dreadnaught.

I keep hearing talk of the new drow khopesh as being the one handed esos. There is a weapon out there better than the drow khopesh though that has gotten little to no credit.

Mornh (http://ddowiki.com/page/Mornh,_Hammer_of_the_Mountains)

At first this little gem looks pretty insignificant. It's basically a pretty poor khopesh. What really makes it so great is the tier 5 ability pulverizer from legendary dreadnaught that gives +1 critical threat to all bludgeon weapons. The real beauty of pulverizer is it works before imp crit is applied, so any old 20/x3 warhammer becomes a 17-20/x3 with pulverizer and imp crit. Thats a khopesh without the feat.

So Mornh then is a base 19-20/x3 weapon pulverizer makes it 18-20/x3 and imp crit brings it to 15-20/x3. This is the same crit profile of the much ballyhoed drow khopesh but this one has better base dmg, and better dmg flags in fracturing and magma surge versus maiming.

Even if something is immune to both fracturing and magma surge the warhammer outdoes the drow khoepsh by over 2 points of dmg per swing. With both those doing full dmg its almost 15.

Then add in the fact that mornh can be used as a set with the new trinkets to give +4 to hit and dmg, and 15 physical resistance and it just widens the gap further.

WARNING: I am about to show some math here. I apologize if it fails to solve any problems and only further complicates them.

Going to break down the khopesh and warhammer for a dreadnaught on a dmg per swing mainhand basis. Some assumptions for the basis of this comparison.

-Both have imp crit and devastating critical from dreadnaught.
-Both are also getting +1.5[w] from imp power attack and combat brute.
-Both are hitting on a 2 or better
-seeker 10 for both although the khopesh must provide thiers form another source while mornh has it built in.
-no attempt to quantify the extra feat is being made as that depends on what feats are already taken etc. likewise no attempt to adjust for the two more ap a khopesh dreadnaught would have is made either.
-No single attack effects like lay waste, volcanoe's edge or the likes are being calculated just a standard normal swing
-for simplicity assumptions all use 0% fort if someone wants numbers with different fortifications I can provide but remember fort is such a fluid number throughout fights now with all the reduction type effects capable.

The variable x is a representation of the additional dmg modifier. This number is the same as what you see on your inventory screen for extra dmg minus the enhancement number on the weapon as i calculate that differently as it varies per weapon. Since we are talking a one handed vs. one handed weapon comparison on the same character we can expect x to be the same with the exception of mornh getting an extra +4 if used as part of the set.

First off the drow khopesh:

.65*(4.5*4.5+6+x)+.2*(3*(4.5*4.5+6+x+10)+7)+.1*(4* (4.5*4.5+6+x+10)+7)

This simplifies down to 55.4125+1.65*x.

Next comes mornh:

.65*(4*5.5+7+x+7)+.2*(3*(4*5.5+7+x+10)+7)+.1*(4*(4 *5.5+7+x+10)+7)+(.95*0.2e-1)*(71.5*4)

Simplifies to 69.93400+1.65*x.

So we are pushing 15 dmg a swing better for mornh over the khopesh and because the x coefficient is equal they difference remains.

For reference the esos has an average dmg per swing of:

.65*(4*7+10+x)+.2*(3*(4*7+10+x+10))+.1*(4*(4*7+10+ x+10))

or simply 72.70+1.65*x

(keep in mind the x value would be higher due to the 1.5x str mod)

Add the +4 dmg from the set and mornh is ahead of esos pre dmg mod. This is huge for a one hander.

The next concern is dr breaking. Because pulverizer turns any warhammer into a khopesh having to trade down to crafted or other weapons for dr breaking is really moot here. However the much higher dmg of mornh means it takes much more dr for it to have to swap down to other weapons. Mornh also carries the adamantine flag so it has the ability to break some types of dr that the khopesh doesn't.

For reference a +5 holy bursted greater bane with a 2[w] flag would do the following for a dreadnaught:

.75*(3.5*4.5+9+x+10.5+7)+.1*(3*(3.5*4.5+9+x+10)+10 .5+7+14)+.1*(4*(3.5*4.5+9+x+10)+7+10.5+17.5)

or 62.6625+1.45*x

So it actually starts ahead of the drow khopesh until the khopesh gets an x value of roughly 35 so .2(x-35) is the amount of dr you can handle before having to swap to the boss beaters. A fairly high value of 60 for x would mean that the drow khopesh user would have to swap to dr beaters at dr of 12 or higher.

The mornh starts out 7 dmg higher and gains .2 per x so the same 60 value for x would mean that it would take dr of ~20 before mornh has to switch weapons.

[LeLoric]

So we have addressed the mornh vs khopesh issue and the dr breaking issues so it really boils down to now finding how to best fit the weapon and the destiny to a good base 20 character. This is often the hardest and most subjective part as some people say fighters are best some barbs etc. Thing is the mornhnaught concept can really be applied to most any build that uses twf although some will of course benefit more than others.

(Coming Soon)

[Rawel_San]

I'm wondering, is it really still reasonable to assume everyone hits on a 2 with the changes to the to-hit system?
I know I've done some math pre-update with the new formula and it seemed as if even very high to-hit characters 70ish
to-hit would not be hitting on a 2 against higher ac mobs. I guess the destinies and epic levels added more to-hit but still.

[LeLoric]

I'm wondering, is it really still reasonable to assume everyone hits on a 2 with the changes to the to-hit system?

Assuming for simplicity in a comparison is reasonable yes which is what I did. With glancing blows on misses two or higher it's a lot harder to quantify exactly but in situations where there are misses the weapon with the higher base dmg beneifts more. In the drow khopesh versus mornh comparison I did the higher base dmg is the mornh although fairly minimal. The other issue is for to hit. Once again mornh has the higher to hit value so will be ahead here although a +1 advantage in to hit very rarely makes a difference under the new system. If you look at almost all my assumptions and what they mean in almost all cases adjusting for reality would benefit the mornh.

Assuming for sake of reality that everyone hits on a 2 or better is another story.

[Rawel_San]

Ahh ok. I was more wondering for the sake of reality then for the sake of this particular comparison. It used to be
widely touted that anyone who wants to even consider doing dps must be hitting on a 2 or they are gimp.

I never really agreed with it then and was always surprised at the number of people who claimed they were
doing so considering there was a number of mobs in game with AC in the 50-60 or even higher which meant
a +59 self buffed to-hit or +64 if you believed the claims of doing so with PA on.

These days those numbers went up considerably. To hit an AC 50 mob on a 2 you need (sorry to
readers uncomfortable with math there will be a very tiny bit of it ahead) x=(.95-.25)*100-10.5
which is 59.5 to-hit. With PA on that's a non trivial amount of to-hit and I'm not even talking about mobs
with ac's in the 60's. For 60 it's 73.5.

Anyhow I agree with your explanation. Sorry for the derailing of the thread.
Just my 2 copper,
Rawel

[Wraith_Sarevok]

I would think that going Dwarf and dual wielding dwarven axes with Headman's Chop would be the ultimate TWF DPS. Either that or a dual Deathnip Half-Orc build.

The hammer doesn't have any slots and it doesn't break Good DR, which is a huge negative.

Still, it's a great weapon and it finally lets people make some good bludgeoning DPS builds. I bet they'll nerf Pulverizer at some point though, so enjoy it while it lasts. It should really be applying 2nd (like ALL other crit range enhancers) and not first.

Taken from http://ddowiki.com/page/Threat_range:


* The Fighter Kensei Mastery III enhancement will add 1 to the threat range of a single specific weapon type, such as Kukri. This stacks with Improved Critical or Keen/Impact, but is applied second. With Improved Critical: Slashing and Kensei Kukri Mastery III, for example, an equipped Kukri will have a threat range of 14-20.

* The Paladin Exalted Smite II enhancement will add 1 to the threat range of your weapon while active. Exalted Smite IV will add 2 while active. This stacks with Improved Critical / Keen, but is applied second.

* The Sniper Shot ability granted by the Ranger Deepwood Sniper I enhancement makes a ranged attack with +1 to the threat range. This stacks with Improved Critical / Keen, but is applied second.

[LeLoric]

I would think that going Dwarf and dual wielding dwarven axes with Headman's Chop would be the ultimate TWF DPS. Either that or a dual Deathnip Half-Orc build.

The hammer doesn't have any slots and it doesn't break Good DR, which is a huge negative.

Still, it's a great weapon and it finally lets people make some good bludgeoning DPS builds. I bet they'll nerf Pulverizer at some point though, so enjoy it while it lasts. It should really be applying 2nd (like ALL other crit range enhancers) and not first.

Taken from http://ddowiki.com/page/Threat_range:

A 2[w] +5 holy bursted daxe in a dwarfs hands with headsman's chop and other dreadnaught stuff gives the following:

.85*(3.5*5.5+11+x+7+10.5)+.1*(5*(3.5*5.5+11+x+10)+ 7+10.5+17.5);
or 64.2125 + 1.35 x

compared to the mornhs 69.93400+1.65x or the holy bursted warhammer 62.6625+1.45*x numbers from the first post.

If we use the same hypothetical x value of 60 (very average number) I used before mornh comes out almost 23 points per swing ahead of the dwarf axes so up to dr 24 it doesnt matter and at that point the boss beater warhammers are better than the dwarf axes by almost 5 dmg per swing so at no time would a dwarf be better with headsmans chop with the weapons available to it currently. And there is no adjustment for the warhammers race included in these numbers so a half elf could have 3d6 sneak attack or the extra half-orc dmg from str and power attack.

Might pulverizer get changed? Possibly but even at 16-20 x3 it outdoes the drow khopesh its just that warhammers fall behind when you have to swap to others instead of khopesh at that point.

Ive already done htose comparisons here http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=383462

Mornh is just so far ahead of other options it takes a lot of dr to make it matter.

[K_0tiC]

Did you work out or has anyone seen the drow style dwarven axes think there Durgeur axes or something? If anyone has a ss id love to see what they have in terms of base and suffix because then with headmans they would definetly pull infront of the drow khopesh.

[LeLoric]

Did you work out or has anyone seen the drow style dwarven axes think there Durgeur axes or something? If anyone has a ss id love to see what they have in terms of base and suffix because then with headmans they would definetly pull infront of the drow khopesh.

All the drow weapons follow the pattern of +1 crit range and 3[w]

That would make the dwarven axe variant 19-20/x3 and 3[1d10]
Using everthing I did in the first post and added chop it breaks down as follows

.75*(4.5*5.5+6+x)+.1*(3*(4.5*5.5+6+x+10)+7)+.1*(5* (4.5*5.5+6+x+10)+10.5)

or simply 57.4125+1.55*x

That's surpassed by the drow khopesh at an x value of 30

[dubyprime]

It was hard to see past all that agenda you were pushing with those numbers, but did you look into comparisons with a Drow Warhammer?

[wax_on_wax_off]

It was hard to see past all that agenda you were pushing with those numbers, but did you look into comparisons with a Drow Warhammer?

Subtle!

Nice job OP for pointing out that options exist, I could actually be excited to make a war hammer DPS build.

[wax_on_wax_off]

What options are there?
Barbarian? I thought we only built THF'ing barbs now.
Fighter? This works, yay an extra feat, oh wait...
Paladin? Gimp of course but DR breaking is nice.
Ranger? Gimp of course but offhand/AC is nice.
Cleric? War hammer cleric, now you're talking! Okay so flavourful...
Rogue? This could work! But miss Shadowdancer ...

So ... Fighter?

[bigolbear]

Ahh dag nammit!

I thought i was going to be the only guy with a warhammer specialist for a long time to come. There goes my uniqueness!

[sirgog]

My concern with a lot of the new weapons is that they have no DR breaking capacity.

Against a mob with the VERY widespread DR 20/good, your DPS doesn't look as hot. An arti can fix this, but in my experience they aren't all that common. And against the often relevant DR Good+Cold Iron or slightly less common DR Good+Silver you are out of luck (although you are fine with Good+Addy with an arti). Your backup weapons are then limited as you've specced heavily for Warhammers (or at least blunt weapons).

This weapon is top-notch and the best blunt one-hander ever in the game. I'm not certain that it is the be all and end all though.


Oh and on the 'I hit on a 2 and confirm on a 1': The assumption is wrong, but it's OK for comparing two weapons as the error is roughly equal for both weapons you are comparing. The only real issues come up with weapons with wide To-Hit variances (e.g. comparing a +5 Greater Bane to a Lit 2) or weapons with widely divergent crit profiles (where Seeker's 'chance to confirm crit' bonus is of much greater value on one weapon than the other).

[LeLoric]

My concern with a lot of the new weapons is that they have no DR breaking capacity.

Against a mob with the VERY widespread DR 20/good, your DPS doesn't look as hot. An arti can fix this, but in my experience they aren't all that common. And against the often relevant DR Good+Cold Iron or slightly less common DR Good+Silver you are out of luck (although you are fine with Good+Addy with an arti). Your backup weapons are then limited as you've specced heavily for Warhammers (or at least blunt weapons).

This weapon is top-notch and the best blunt one-hander ever in the game. I'm not certain that it is the be all and end all though.


Oh and on the 'I hit on a 2 and confirm on a 1': The assumption is wrong, but it's OK for comparing two weapons as the error is roughly equal for both weapons you are comparing. The only real issues come up with weapons with wide To-Hit variances (e.g. comparing a +5 Greater Bane to a Lit 2) or weapons with widely divergent crit profiles (where Seeker's 'chance to confirm crit' bonus is of much greater value on one weapon than the other).

Already adressed both your points here already. As for dr breaker yes it does become an issue eventually but it takes a large amount of dr in general to have to swap to something that bypasses. And when you do swap down to something else pulverizer makes any warhammer into an equivalent khopesh so you are still high end twf dps. As for cold-iron /good you have the fury twist to get the cold iron so the only real big dr breaking issue is silver.

The hit on a 2 assumption I also already covered its an assumption for simplicity not an assumption of reality. Its a small enough change under the new system that its fairly negligible enough that I can simplify things and not have to deal with iterative attack bonuses and the likes.

[LeLoric]

It was hard to see past all that agenda you were pushing with those numbers, but did you look into comparisons with a Drow Warhammer?

The drow warhammer with pulverizer is exactly the same as the drow khopesh. As such it is significantly behind mornh and with no additional dr breaking skills will always be behind mornh.

[Monkey_Archer]

I would think that going Dwarf and dual wielding dwarven axes with Headman's Chop would be the ultimate TWF DPS.

In theory, a good named DA with the expanded 19-20 crit range, headman's chop, higher base damage and good weapon procs could pass the mornh or drow khopesh, at least until x = <some high enough number>. Unfortunately, turbine hates dwarves and such a weapon will likely never exist. :(

[Monkey_Archer]

This is not a build thread although I may eventually add some different examples of what to do with it. It is more just to examine the extremely powerful connection between the new raid item Mornh and the epic destiny Legendary Dreadnaught.


As good as the synergy between Legendary Dreadnought and mornh is, I can't help but think that fury of the wild is generally a better destiny for TWFs, considering that momentum/lay waste/cleaves perform so well THF, but can actually reduce your dps while TWF. Its quite difficult to properly compare the 2 destinies mathematically, but my gut says that fury + LD twists (haste boost if needed, elemental weapon strikes, etc..) is better then LD with fury twists, although I could be wrong. If it is though, that would mean mornh loses its advantage of khopeshes....

[LeLoric]

As good as the synergy between Legendary Dreadnought and mornh is, I can't help but think that fury of the wild is generally a better destiny for TWFs, considering that momentum/lay waste/cleaves perform so well THF, but can actually reduce your dps while TWF. Its quite difficult to properly compare the 2 destinies mathematically, but my gut says that fury + LD twists (haste boost if needed, elemental weapon strikes, etc..) is better then LD with fury twists, although I could be wrong. If it is though, that would mean mornh loses its advantage of khopeshes....

Your right it is extremely difficut to compare them mathematically. I had a long going discussion of the matter on the lammania forums and everything is so varied and extremely subjective on a lot of that. Having played several two weapon fighters through both destinies and having a really good feel for each and also having tried to compare them as much as possible mathematically it seems fury is ahead on twf but the margin is not very big and definitely not by 15+ dmg per swing.

Momentum swing and lay waste are still generally really good for twf but yeah the cleaves are generally bad meaning less momentum swings. The weapon type attacks though are much better on a twf and mornh being a warhammer gets the best one in sonic dmg and in mornhs case a roughly 50% chance to stun, higher on a kensai or with any double strike mixed in.

With twists too a twf can get much more out of fury than a fury can get out of dreadnaught because almost all of dreadnaughts really good stuff is at the end if you don't count the lay waste chain which we've already both said is less desirable on a twf further equalizing the two destinies. For max dps I would guess a dreanaught would probably twist sense weakness, hail of blows, tunnel vision on a 4/2/1 setup. I don't see anywhere where fury can get that kind of return.

[Xynot2]

Khopesh Schmopesh. I'll play with this...
http://itemwiki.cubicleninja.com/images/items/item_986.png

[Chette]

Wow, impressive calculations, your attention to detail never ceases to amaze me Lelo. I had been contemplating a warhammer build for sheer style and flare, the fact that it could possibly be a top end DPS build now has me very excited (though not excited enough to pee my pants, for those who were asking). While DR breaking issues may come up, it's still far ahead of the Drow Khopesh, which is one of the main points I'm taking away from this.

It's always great to have people looking at what at first seem like "oddball" choices, instead of just going "lol, it's a warhammer, and thus must be inferior to this khopesh". Options are always good.

[wazabadoo]

I've been wondering since the expansion pack about the future of TWFing. After all, with the bonuses any class can get from EDs, combined with the new base weapon damage and the set bonuses(both old and new), I wouldn't be surprised if a pure tempest (or at least 12 lvls) would become the top dps; the straight bonuses to dmg(like a kensai's) being nothing compared to the extra attacks you get, especially with those awesome weapons. Anyway, I'll leave the math to you.

[PopeJual]

What really makes it so great is the tier 5 ability pulverizer from legendary dreadnaught that gives +1 critical threat to all bludgeon weapons. The real beauty of pulverizer is it works before imp crit is applied, so any old 20/x3 warhammer becomes a 17-20/x3 with pulverizer and imp crit. Thats a khopesh without the feat.

Has this been actively confirmed?

Everything else works after improved crit instead of before, so it seems worth a double check.

[LeLoric]

Has this been actively confirmed?

Everything else works after improved crit instead of before, so it seems worth a double check.

It crits for me on rolls of 15 with improved crit bludgeon on a ranger.

[PopeJual]

It crits for me on rolls of 15 with improved crit bludgeon on a ranger.

Good to hear. It's about time that blunt weapons finally got some love.

[ShadowFlash]

Edited: Completely wrong in some of my assumptions and analysis...nothing to see here...move along...move along

ShadowFlash

[maddmatt70]

Nice math just not sure how this weapon compares to the other myriad of weapons from the raid that we know nothing about. The rapier, longsword, etc.. I guess we will find out in a few days.

[Inferno346]

...edited for missing the point...

[LeLoric]

The obvious question is can we spec for both blunt and khopesh?

The two most obvious builds are fighter and barb...
Kensai-- enough feats, but lacking prestige-wise
18/2 barb-- not enough feats

Best case scenario feat-wise for a barb, ignoring loss of helf sneak attack/horc str:

18 barb/2 fighter human
8x normal feats, 2x fighter, 2x epic:

PA
WF: Blunt
IC: Slash
Cleave
Great Cleave
TWFx3
Khopesh
Stunning Blow
Overwhelming Critical: Blunt
IC: Blunt

So it's basically impossible to get 2 OCs and FBIII.

One other thing we could try is eSoS slotted with an eDA crystal for DR-breaking and these hammers for other stuff. So we could have:

PA
WF: Blunt
WF: Slash
IC: Blunt
IC: Slash
Cleave
Great Cleave
TWFx3
Overwhelming Critical: Blunt
OC: Slash

No THF line, and loses stunning blow... meh.

I think you missed the whole point. If you are a dreadnaught, pulverizer makes any warhammer into an equivalent khopesh. So there is absolutely no need to take khopesh whatsoever

[ShadowFlash]

......The weapon type attacks though are much better on a twf and mornh being a warhammer gets the best one in sonic dmg and in mornhs case a roughly 50% chance to stun, higher on a kensai or with any double strike mixed in.....

Where's the 50% stun chance come from? Even with Kensai and 25%ish (realistic goal) doublestrike, I'm not seeing it. What am I missing?

Fair to point out for the stubborn dwarves, that D.axes get anvil as well (along with crit happy pick users) :p

Seriously considering speccing out of D.axes on my dwarf, and into hammers...a stun breakdown (supporting 50%) would be a clincher :)

ShadowFlash

[LeLoric]

Where's the 50% stun chance come from? Even with Kensai and 25%ish (realistic goal) doublestrike, I'm not seeing it. What am I missing?

Fair to point out for the stubborn dwarves, that D.axes get anvil as well (along with crit happy pick users) :p

Seriously considering speccing out of D.axes on my dwarf, and into hammers...a stun breakdown (supporting 50%) would be a clincher :)

ShadowFlash

You have a 30% chance to crit (15-20) and have 1.8 hits per swing (100% mainhand-80% offhand). 1.8*.3=.54 54%. Factor in misses and you should still be at or just under 50%.

[ShadowFlash]

You have a 30% chance to crit (15-20) and have 1.8 hits per swing (100% mainhand-80% offhand). 1.8*.3=.54 54%. Factor in misses and you should still be at or just under 50%.


yeah, that was eons ago (in forum time) and figured it out. I came to grips with it, embraced your math and concept fully, and am drooling over some strange build possibilities ;) Thanks for the math break down...I quote this thread often.

ShadowFlash

[Shade]

As good as the synergy between Legendary Dreadnought and mornh is, I can't help but think that fury of the wild is generally a better destiny for TWFs, considering that momentum/lay waste/cleaves perform so well THF, but can actually reduce your dps while TWF. Its quite difficult to properly compare the 2 destinies mathematically, but my gut says that fury + LD twists (haste boost if needed, elemental weapon strikes, etc..) is better then LD with fury twists, although I could be wrong. If it is though, that would mean mornh loses its advantage of khopeshes....

monkey wins thread.

Math failed to solve anything yet again. One needs only play with the destinies a bit to see how much better fury is for twf. No idea why you love spending so much time on those numbers anyways when you could of just punched the values in barrage like I did and learne the same thing that took you hours, in minutes.

Warhammer kensai is plan and simply a heavily fail build. Really building entirely around one weapon heavily to the expense of your character in general is always a failure of an idea. Especially when said weapons options aside from that one weapon your cuaght on, are so utterly bad.

btw, the proper 1handed esos is balizarde. Though even that light dmg shortsword is cooler then morhn.

[Chette]

No idea why you love spending so much time on those numbers anyways when you could of just punched the values in barrage like I did and learne the same thing that took you hours, in minutes.

For some people, performing a few simple additions and multiplications, doesn't take a few hours. Crazy, I know right?

[nix_vali]

Math failed to solve anything yet again. One needs only play with the destinies a bit to see how much better fury is for twf. No idea why you love spending so much time on those numbers anyways when you could of just punched the values in barrage like I did and learne the same thing that took you hours, in minutes.

http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb401/1zerohj/dretchshade.jpg

[Qezuzu]

Math failed to solve anything yet again.

http://i49.tinypic.com/24ccims.jpg

[jejeba86]

Math failed to solve anything yet again.

http://charges.uol.com.br/upload/bobagens/equacao.jpg

[scoobmx]

Math failed to solve anything yet again. ... No idea why you love spending so much time on those numbers anyways when you could of just punched the values in barrage like I did and learne the same thing that took you hours, in minutes.

Hmm.. so barrage isn't math.. right....

[harold2560]

monkey wins thread.

Math failed to solve anything yet again. One needs only play with the destinies a bit to see how much better fury is for twf. No idea why you love spending so much time on those numbers anyways when you could of just punched the values in barrage like I did and learne the same thing that took you hours, in minutes.

Warhammer kensai is plan and simply a heavily fail build. Really building entirely around one weapon heavily to the expense of your character in general is always a failure of an idea. Especially when said weapons options aside from that one weapon your cuaght on, are so utterly bad.



What you've just posted is one of the most insanely idiotic things i have ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rationale thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

[harold2560]

For some people, performing a few simple additions and multiplications, doesn't take a few hours. Crazy, I know right?

http://www.mememaker.net/static/images/memes/655605.jpg

[Viisari]

Math failed to solve anything yet again.


you could of just punched the values in barrage like I did and learne the same thing that took you hours, in minutes.

you ever herped so hard you derped? (http://www.derper.com/images/50360e001d41c8769e000003.jpg)

What do you think barrage uses? Space magic? Or maybe it reads the omens from the blood of virgins?

[jejeba86]

One needs only play with the destinies a bit to see how much better fury is for twf. No idea why you love spending so much time on those numbers anyways when you could of just punched the values in barrage like I did and learne the same thing that took you hours, in minutes.

It is more just to examine the extremely powerful connection between the new raid item Mornh and the epic destiny Legendary Dreadnaught.


Warhammer kensai is plan and simply a heavily fail build. Really building entirely around one weapon heavily to the expense of your character in general is always a failure of an idea. Especially when said weapons options aside from that one weapon your cuaght on, are so utterly bad.


This is not a build thread although I may eventually add some different examples of what to do with it.

You failed your roll against reading'n comprehending ;)

[maddmatt70]

monkey wins thread.

Math failed to solve anything yet again. One needs only play with the destinies a bit to see how much better fury is for twf. No idea why you love spending so much time on those numbers anyways when you could of just punched the values in barrage like I did and learne the same thing that took you hours, in minutes.


I do not concur with this statement at least in part. For paladins, rangers, rogues, and bards that are two weapon fighting other destinies are better then Legendary Dreadnaught, but for barbarians and fighters I am less certain of this. One of the primary reasons for this is tactics. Dreadnaught gives fighters and barbarians a nice tactical gain. You are also overstating your percieved lack of advantage for lay waste and momentum for two weapon fighting because two weapon fighting melee do get some dps gain out of this but quite a bit less then two handed fighting melee certainly.

I do agree that piercing is alot safer then bludgeon with rapiers and heavy picks both being quite strong for differing reasons and really piercing being the only real competitor to slashing for two weapon melee especially from a longterm perspective.

[78mackson]

1st...
+1 to OP for all the math and stuff !

2nd..
Since adrenaline acts like an actionboost, is it even usefull in mid combat?

Both me and my leveling partner found this constant interrupting of the attack chain so annoying that we stopped using it mid fight.


Adrenaline - swing - swing - adrenaline - *** Pause - swing - swing.

[Ape_Man]

1st...
+1 to OP for all the math and stuff !

2nd..
Since adrenaline acts like an actionboost, is it even usefull in mid combat?

Both me and my leveling partner found this constant interrupting of the attack chain so annoying that we stopped using it mid fight.


Adrenaline - swing - swing - adrenaline - *** Pause - swing - swing.

Trip/Cleave/Stunning blow will interupt the action delay.

[Thrudh]

Ahh dag nammit!

I thought i was going to be the only guy with a warhammer specialist for a long time to come. There goes my uniqueness!

I built a 12/6/2 monk/ranger/fighter AA BEFORE 10k stars came out.

I was quite unique... for a short while. :(