We DEMAND a dev response to broken healers friend.

[MRMechMan]

Yes, DEMAND.

I am sure many people will have issue with the tone or phrasing of this post, but this race breaking issue has been thoroughly ignored and swept under the rug for nearly a month.

We've asked nicely, we've sent messeges and tells to devs, we've checked release and patch notes; nothing. Not. A. Word.

This is what it has come to. Personally, I am incredibly frustrated right now.

I and many others want our warforges back. We want to stop apologizing to healers. We want to be able to play them again without wincing every time we see a heal hit for 60-70% of what it used to. We want the numbers to add up like they should.

Nevermind about screwing WF left and right with nerfs, lack of development and lack of items. This isn't about that.

This is about a blatent and massive bug that makes a race that we all PAID FOR just about unplayable.

I understand that you are busy, but your lack of acknowledgement of this issue is despicable and needs to change, right now.

[djl]

Indeed, Artificers are about the only class that is still playable as a WF because they can fit in quickened Reconstruct without gimping their builds.

[Feather_of_Sun]

Hello MRMechMan,
I've tried investigating this, and in every test I attempted, Healer's Friend was resulting in the proper amount of healing.

Could you please submit a bug report detailing pertinent information, such as your character level, what your total percentage of healing amplification should be, your equipment/enhancements contributing to it, and your actual observed percentage of healing amplification?

If you can include your character name, account name, and server, then our Quality Assurance team can also grab a local copy of your character, which will be extremely helpful for finding steps to reproduce the problem.

You can use the bug reporting page here: http://forums.ddo.com/new_bug.php

Thanks!

[MRMechMan]

Have submitted several bug reports. Perhaps the bug reporting tool is broken. I send em, dunno where they go to.

I will send another one...

Not sure how you cannot replicate this when EVERY warforged who has healers friend has this bug. All my characters, all my guildies and friends characters, everyone I test in harbor randomly; every warforged.

Healers friend is meant to increase the BASE healing-ie HF1 increases it from 50% to 65%. That is how it worked before.

It was changed to just a straight 15% increase-in which case it is working the way the description states (you heal for 15% more when blah blah blah) but that is NOT how it was working before. It used to increase the base.


Effectively, it is providing exactly half of what it used to. If you don't know how it worked before (increasing the base), then it seems to be working exactly as the description intends.

If the description and effect were changed at the same time, then it was just a nerf, by some other dev.

That is just as intolerable as WF were ALREADY a weak race for all melee characters and questionable for divines.

[Cauthey]

Hello MRMechMan,
I've tried investigating this, and in every test I attempted, Healer's Friend was resulting in the proper amount of healing.

Could you please submit a bug report detailing pertinent information, such as your character level, what your total percentage of healing amplification should be, your equipment/enhancements contributing to it, and your actual observed percentage of healing amplification?

If you can include your character name, account name, and server, then our Quality Assurance team can also grab a local copy of your character, which will be extremely helpful for finding steps to reproduce the problem.

You can use the bug reporting page here: http://forums.ddo.com/new_bug.php

Thanks!

I certainly hope that your inability to reproduce this problem on live HAS NOT been the reason that this bug and these complaints have been willfully ignored.

[Eladiun]

Something is off with WF healing amp.

[Scraap]

Have submitted several bug reports. Perhaps the bug reporting tool is broken. I send em, dunno where they go to.

I will send another one...

Not sure how you cannot replicate this when EVERY warforged who has healers friend has this bug. All my characters, all my guildies and friends characters, everyone I test in harbor randomly; every warforged.

Healers friend is meant to increase the BASE healing-ie HF1 increases it from 50% to 65%. That is how it worked before.

It was changed to just a straight 15% increase-in which case it is working the way the description states (you heal for 15% more when blah blah blah) but that is NOT how it was working before. It used to increase the base.


Effectively, it is providing exactly half of what it used to. If you don't know how it worked before (increasing the base), then it seems to be working exactly as the description intends.

If the description and effect were changed at the same time, then it was just a nerf, by some other dev.

That is just as intolerable as WF were ALREADY a weak race for all melee characters and questionable for divines.

Further reading on prior observed functionality:

http://ddowiki.com/page/Healing_Amplification

A few points off the base is... noticeable, to say the least.

[Dandonk]

WF fvs, HF 1. Without heal amp items on, but with 10% guild buff. Emp healing, full Life line, 78 devotion, no implement.

Healing a no heal amp person with Heal: 381.
This fits: 150*(1 base + .75 EmpHealing + ½(.8+.78))= 381

Healing myself: 240.
Should be: 381*(.5+.15)*1.1= 272
Seems to be: 381*(.5*1.15)*1.1= 240.9825

So, HF seems to add 15% heal amp like normal heal amp, instead of adding 15% to base WF healability (nice word) like it used to.

[Eladiun]

Hello MRMechMan,
I've tried investigating this, and in every test I attempted, Healer's Friend was resulting in the proper amount of healing.

Could you please submit a bug report detailing pertinent information, such as your character level, what your total percentage of healing amplification should be, your equipment/enhancements contributing to it, and your actual observed percentage of healing amplification?

If you can include your character name, account name, and server, then our Quality Assurance team can also grab a local copy of your character, which will be extremely helpful for finding steps to reproduce the problem.

You can use the bug reporting page here: http://forums.ddo.com/new_bug.php

Thanks!



I have a better idea. Rather than the paying customers doing all the work how about you explain the exact method you used to test it and we can tell you what you missed.

[Forzah]

Actually, in the current version it does exactly what the tooltip says it should:

http://ddowiki.com/page/Warforged_Healer%27s_Friend

So, it seems that healers friend did not worked as intended before, and has been fixed now. Nowhere it says it should add to the base healing amp. Whether this is a good or bad thing I leave to you.

[Thrudh]

I certainly hope that your inability to reproduce this problem on live HAS NOT been the reason that this bug and these complaints have been willfully ignored.

Umm.. If he tested for it, then the complaints were not "willfully ignored". And if he was unable to reproduce the problem, he can't fix it.

Send him more info; they are willing to look into it more right now.

[Thrudh]

WF fvs, HF 1. Without heal amp items on, but with 10% guild buff. Emp healing, full Life line, 78 devotion, no implement.

Healing a no heal amp person with Heal: 381.
This fits: 150*(1 base + .75 EmpHealing + ½(.8+.78))= 381

Healing myself: 240.
Should be: 381*(.5+.15)*1.1= 272
Seems to be: 381*(.5*1.15)*1.1= 240.9825

So, HF seems to add 15% heal amp like normal heal amp, instead of adding 15% to base WF healability (nice word) like it used to.

THis is pretty straight-forward...

So, should Healer's Friend take a WF to 65% of base healing like before? or .5*1.15= 57.5% like the tool-tip says?

[slimkj]

Whether this is a good or bad thing I leave to you.
After working the one way for so very, very long I don't see how it can be a good thing. Sometimes if things are "wrong" for a long time, isn't it better to just leave them "wrong" and people happy? It's not like WF HA was game-breaking.

Not that I actually think this was intentional. My bet is it was re-coded during the proposed enhancement revamp, reverted when that update was pushed back, properly this time, and whoever did it didn't realise it was "wrong" before.

[slimkj]

So, should Healer's Friend take a WF to 65% of base healing like before? or .5*1.15= 57.5% like the tool-tip says?
I think it'd be pretty sad if it was the latter. WF aren't exactly the most overperforming or welcomed race right now anyway. :/

[Thrudh]

I think it'd be pretty sad if it was the latter. WF aren't exactly the most overperforming or welcomed race right now anyway. :/

I agree... It should go back to the 65%

[Feather_of_Sun]

Thanks to everyone with constructive comments!

I don't usually play Warforged characters, so was unaware that it formerly added to the base healing vulnerability, rather than stacking multiplicative like all other sources of amplification.

This was not an intentional change, it is likely an accidential "halo" effect from some backend coding work for the expansion pack.

Interestingly enough, that means it's a buff for warforged with high enough amplification (who reach over 100% total before this enhancement is taken into account), but for anyone with less, it certainly does have a negative impact.

I'll track down what changed, and see if we can get it fixed back to how it was ASAP for you guys.

[Schmoe]

I think it'd be pretty sad if it was the latter. WF aren't exactly the most overperforming or welcomed race right now anyway. :/

Since they changed ALL spellpower-type effects to be additive rather than multiplicative, I'm really surprised that they would make the reverse change to Healer's Friend. It's clearly either a bug or a nerf, and the only reason Turbine hasn't been able to reproduce the problem is that they don't actually understand the problem.

[Schmoe]

Thanks to everyone with constructive comments!

I don't usually play Warforged characters, so was unaware that it formerly added to the base healing vulnerability, rather than stacking multiplicative like all other sources of amplification.

This was not an intentional change, it is likely an accidential "halo" effect from some backend coding work for the expansion pack.

Interestingly enough, that means it's a buff for warforged with high enough amplification (who reach over 100% total before this enhancement is taken into account), but for anyone with less, it certainly does have a negative impact.

I'll track down what changed, and see if we can get it fixed back to how it was ASAP for you guys.

Cool dealio!

Also, ninjaed. Heh.

[RobbinB]

Actually, in the current version it does exactly what the tooltip says it should:

http://ddowiki.com/page/Warforged_Healer%27s_Friend

So, it seems that healers friend did not worked as intended before, and has been fixed now. Nowhere it says it should add to the base healing amp.

First of all, it's highly unlikely that it was intentionally "fixed", but rather much more likely the recent changes to healing resulted in the coincidence that the tooltip now matches the result.

If it was intentional, then Feather would presumably have said "that was fixed to match the description." So either it wasn't an intentional change or the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is up to...either way it doesn't reflect well.



Whether this is a good or bad thing I leave to you.

Of course it's a bad thing. With the recent changes to poison/disease, the reasons for bothering with wf at all are diminished. Heck, there was already a lot of dissatisfaction with wf in general before u14. Decreasing the healing penalty or improving healers friend (especially II and III) were strongly suggested by many forum posters as needed. Having u14 come in and make wf weaker and have an additional penalty on top of it is frankly insulting. It keeps coming back to the "do the devs actually play this game?" quote.

[MRMechMan]

Interestingly enough, that means it's a buff for warforged with high enough amplification (who reach over 100% total before this enhancement is taken into account), but for anyone with less, it certainly does have a negative impact.

I'll track down what changed, and see if we can get it fixed back to how it was ASAP for you guys.

10%/20%/30% amp on items, 10% ship, 25% jitz, 30% monk, 3x5% pally PLs, healers friend II (III is SIX ap, no build takes that) Aka the mother of all healing amp WF character (which is sort of an oxymoron)

How it used to be:
.7 base x1.1x1.2x1.3 x1.1 x1.25 x1.3 x1.05^3=2.48
How it is:
.5base x1.2 (HF2)x1.1x1.2x1.3x1.1x1.25x1.3x1.05^3=2.13

It results in less healing amp no matter what.


Thank you for the acknowledgement and hopefully we can get this fixed as soon as possible-it really does break any WF that can't self reconstruct.

[Scraap]

Thanks to everyone with constructive comments!

I don't usually play Warforged characters, so was unaware that it formerly added to the base healing vulnerability, rather than stacking multiplicative like all other sources of amplification.

This was not an intentional change, it is likely an accidential "halo" effect from some backend coding work for the expansion pack.

Interestingly enough, that means it's a buff for warforged with high enough amplification (who reach over 100% total before this enhancement is taken into account), but for anyone with less, it certainly does have a negative impact.

I'll track down what changed, and see if we can get it fixed back to how it was ASAP for you guys.

Honestly, considering just how much the net multiplier swings, and how obviously twitchy even a minor change has, I'd consider revisiting the entire healing amp stacking method.

'Course, if you do, bring a fire extinguisher.

[slimkj]

I'll track down what changed, and see if we can get it fixed back to how it was ASAP for you guys.
Thanks, Feather.

Just in time too, what with the price going up shortly. ;)

[PopeJual]

Hello MRMechMan,
I've tried investigating this, and in every test I attempted, Healer's Friend was resulting in the proper amount of healing.

Could you please submit a bug report detailing pertinent information, such as your character level, what your total percentage of healing amplification should be, your equipment/enhancements contributing to it, and your actual observed percentage of healing amplification?

If you can include your character name, account name, and server, then our Quality Assurance team can also grab a local copy of your character, which will be extremely helpful for finding steps to reproduce the problem.

You can use the bug reporting page here: http://forums.ddo.com/new_bug.php

Thanks!

Is there a list of how effects are supposed to work written down somewhere?

If not, shouldn't there be?

[scoobmx]

Interestingly enough, that means it's a buff for warforged with high enough amplification (who reach over 100% total before this enhancement is taken into account), but for anyone with less, it certainly does have a negative impact.

No. You'll have to excuse me for telling a developer that he's wrong, but you're wrong. Please do the math again and see that:

Case 1: Healer's Friend adds to base healing. Heal amp is: (0.5+HF)*HA where HA = multiplicative healing amp sources such as gear (HA > 1) and HF = healer's friend bonus, as a fraction (0.15 for 15%)

Case 2: Healer's Friend multiplies as healing amp. Heal amp is: (0.5)*HA*(1+HF).

Difference Case 1 - Case 2 = HA*[(0.5+HF) - (0.5*(1+HF))] = HA*HF/2

If the difference is negative, then the bugged healer's friend implementation is better. The difference is only negative if the healer's friend bonus is negative, which never happens because it's a bonus. In conclusion the bugged healer's friend is a nerf for all cases, but increasingly severe for higher levels of healer's friend taken and more healing amp gear (your's truly, a WF SD tank)

[bbqzor]

Interestingly enough, that means it's a buff for warforged with high enough amplification (who reach over 100% total before this enhancement is taken into account), but for anyone with less, it certainly does have a negative impact.
I don't think this is possible... saying you were at 110% before considering your WF-ness, it would be:
110%, x65% (how it should be) = 71.5%
110%, x50%, x115% (how it is broken) = 63.25%
In short, no matter what values you have, the current broken version is not a buff. If you have math that shows otherwise, I'm all ears (or eyes I guess, since I'd be reading it). But I'm pretty confident that the current break has no positive effects on anyone, using any values.


I'll track down what changed, and see if we can get it fixed back to how it was ASAP for you guys.
Thank you... with this bug in play currently, and a price hike coming on the 25th for WF as a race... I would have very pointed feelings, to say the least, if it wasn't addressed. Its nice to see people who choose WF for non-arcane (self reconstruct) builds aren't going to be completely marginalized.


healers friend II (III is SIX ap, no build takes that)
I have a WF Barb, who is very epic capable and runs higher difficulty end game content regularly. I take it on him, and wouldn't build him any other way.

I'm not trying to say its wrong to not take it, only that its different strokes for different folks... the flexibility to be healed well by whatever I'm grouped with is invaluable to me.

That said, it is expensive, and it is definitely something I hope is revalued in the Enhancement Overhaul coming down the pipes. It really should be reduced in cost, with the healing penalty becoming both more apparent as the hp/heal values increase, and less necessary with the reduction of effects/situations which restrict regular healing. Certainly for people who have unlocked various Twist options, it becomes much less important, meaning its time is numbered without a reevaluation. Eventually, even I would likely take advantage of those options instead, to finally free those 6 AP back up, though admittedly I'd rather play other characters than work solely to make that change. All in due time I suppose.

With the increase to healing amp itemization, and the addition of epic destinies which can duplicate or stack with different build options, its definitely something to give up in the coming changes without new attention to scaling its cost more properly. For now though, assuming it gets fixed, its something I will likely keep... though I may well be the minority in choosing to eat the 12 AP total on it. Certainly something like 2/3/4 or even 2/2/2 is more appropriate in the contemporary game environment.

[Feather_of_Sun]

No. You'll have to excuse me for telling a developer that he's wrong, but you're wrong. Please do the math again and see that:

Case 1: Healer's Friend adds to base healing. Heal amp is: (0.5+HF)*HA where HA = multiplicative healing amp sources such as gear (HA > 1) and HF = healer's friend bonus, as a fraction (0.15 for 15%)

Case 2: Healer's Friend multiplies as healing amp. Heal amp is: (0.5)*HA*(1+HF).

Difference Case 1 - Case 2 = HA*[(0.5+HF) - (0.5*(1+HF))] = HA*HF/2

If the difference is negative, then the bugged healer's friend implementation is better. The difference is only negative if the healer's friend bonus is negative, which never happens because it's a bonus.

You're right. =)
I didn't do any math on it, instead I just made a quick assumption, which was wrong. You're indeed right, and multiplicative stacking Healer's Friend will never catch up with the base increase.
And now, in my shame, I'll stop wasting my time on the forums and get back to fixing bugs!

[AtomicMew]

Interestingly enough, that means it's a buff for warforged with high enough amplification (who reach over 100% total before this enhancement is taken into account), but for anyone with less, it certainly does have a negative impact.
As MrMech stated, the change has decreased total healing amp for ALL warforged characters, regardless of how much they have. Consider two cases:

Case 1 low heal amp (say ~10%)
Before change: (.5 + .15) * (1.1) = .715
After change: .5 *1.15 * 1.1 = .6325

Case 2 high heal amp (~500%)
Before change: (.5 + .15) * (5) = 3.25
After change: .5 *1.15 * 5 = 2.875

Mathematically, it's easy to explain why this is the case. (.5 + .15) > .5*1.15 and so .65x > .575x for all x possible healing amp values.

[Eladiun]

you're right. =)
i didn't do any math on it, instead i just made a quick assumption, which was wrong. You're indeed right, and multiplicative stacking healer's friend will never catch up with the base increase.
And now, in my shame, i'll stop wasting my time on the forums and get back to fixing bugs!

+1

[meathook2008]

Hello MRMechMan,
I've tried investigating this, and in every test I attempted, Healer's Friend was resulting in the proper amount of healing.

Could you please submit a bug report detailing pertinent information, such as your character level, what your total percentage of healing amplification should be, your equipment/enhancements contributing to it, and your actual observed percentage of healing amplification?

If you can include your character name, account name, and server, then our Quality Assurance team can also grab a local copy of your character, which will be extremely helpful for finding steps to reproduce the problem.

You can use the bug reporting page here: http://forums.ddo.com/new_bug.php

Thanks!


Yes I have read your other posts where you say you were wrong..... VERY wrong....

BUT STILL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This has been told to KOOKIE since PHASE 2 OF THE BETA..... I have bug reported it EVERY TIME!

We had a WONDERFUL break down of it... how each tier wasnt functioning correctly.

And please, telling a dev how a game mechanic works is sad. Just DDOWIKI it, the FORUMLA IS ON THE HEALING AMP PAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*ends rage*

In all seriousness..... a 20% lost of healing amp for my WF pally makes me sad. I was going to buy WF and keep him that way, but he is about to TR out of it as soon as the enchantment pass comes... He looks lonely for never logging into the server since update (with expection to become a bank mule).

US melee warfordged busted our humps to get great healing amp. having 145 (pre fix to stance of valor) Was great... being stuck at 123% is not cool.

[scoobmx]

I don't usually play Warforged characters, so was unaware that it formerly added to the base healing vulnerability, rather than stacking multiplicative like all other sources of amplification.

I also wanted to comment on this. Is there a single developer that DOES play warforged characters? The lack of docent love over the past 3 (or 4?) years seems to suggest 'no'. This worries me because it means designing items, enhancements, destinies, mechanics, and quests for warforged players will always be an afterthought at best, and forgotten at worst. I would rather have one of the testers or designers maybe assigned specifically to play various warforged toons.

[Schmoe]

You're right. =)
I didn't do any math on it, instead I just made a quick assumption, which was wrong. You're indeed right, and multiplicative stacking Healer's Friend will never catch up with the base increase.
And now, in my shame, I'll stop wasting my time on the forums and get back to fixing bugs!

Bah, math never solves anything anyway! ;)

[Scraap]

Is there a list of how effects are supposed to work written down somewhere?

If not, shouldn't there be?

Doubtful, or if so, really doubtful it's up to date in terms of game-mechanic interactivity.

Would say 95% of my recent spit-takes have been due to side effects of interlocking systems. (The rest of course, being crit-nerfs)*.

*with apologies for mathy-stuff.

[maddong]

Here is an easy fix to warforged and warforged tanks for play balance:

Remove the 50% base.
Calculate healing amp the same as fleshies.
When the healing is applied subtract 0.5 from the multiplier.
Eg monk 11(+30)/paladin 6 (+10) warforged healer friend III (+25) would have:
1.3 * 1.1 * 1.25 -0.5 = 1.2875 amp
instead of 0.89375 amp currently or 1.0725 before the nerf (1.3 * 1.1 * 1.25 * 0.5 currently or 0.75 * 1.3 * 1.1 prior to the nerf).

[Thorin2001]

I'll track down what changed, and see if we can get it fixed back to how it was ASAP for you guys.
I can't tell how happy I am to finally read this...
Now off you go and fix this, FoS :)

[fyrst.grok]

I don't usually play Warforged characters, so was unaware that it formerly added to the base healing vulnerability, rather than stacking multiplicative like all other sources of amplification.



Really cool to hear you guys recognize the bug and I'm looking forward to be able to play my fvs again.

That said I think a few of you devs should roll a non repairing wf and see just how gimped they feel compared to fleshies now that you're raising the cost of them.. Because frankly.. 995 tp is too much for this race now.
They don't really have any advantages in melee even though they lore wise were designed to be soldiers. In stead they're stuck with subpar docents and horrible healability.

I'm hoping all this will be changed with the enhancement pass, so the p2p race once again becomes a contender when making a toon. :)

[LordTigerDawn]

This is a enhancement problem. I very much doubt it will be fixed before the enhancement overhaul, and having said that since it does not work now I fully expect it is now gone permanently but they are not allowed to tell you that as it is future development.

Or they have changed it to an autogrant ability for the WF race, and since we are not on the new system yet you cannot get autogrant abilities.

Either way, I fully expect you need to change and accept that is might be gone forever.

[shadowspeaker]

(Snip) I don't usually play Warforged characters, so was unaware ........

Feather I on behalf of all those who play Warforged request that you play a WF. Start at lvl 1 go all the way to 20. Play an arane, a melee, a divine and a specialist.

This will give youa better understanding of some of the things that are lacking/bugged.

When HOrcs came out they took all of the melee unique stuff from WF, MOtUD took the racial resists, and it has been a long time since a original Docent has been added to the game.

Maybe someone is looking at this and it will be fixed in the enhancement pass.

I hope that there is someone on staff who plays each race.

[THAC0]

I think it'd be pretty sad if it was the latter. WF aren't exactly the most overperforming or welcomed race right now anyway. :/

They really never have since the game went live. I can't even count how many times Clerics flat out say, "I'm not healing you" or "You are on your own, cuz you suck up too much of my spell points."

So none of this is new, or surprising to me. Anyone who heals me I tell them thank you and that I appreciate it. Otherwise, I take care of myself. :)

[MartinusWyllt]

Maybe add a racial enhancement line along the lines of the helf dilettante allowing access to repair/reconstruct scroll use?

[PurdueDave]

Honestly, considering just how much the net multiplier swings, and how obviously twitchy even a minor change has, I'd consider revisiting the entire healing amp stacking method.

'Course, if you do, bring a fire extinguisher.
It should have happened with the spellpower change.

[Xynot2]

Hello MRMechMan,
I've tried investigating this, and in every test I attempted, Healer's Friend was resulting in the proper amount of healing.

Could you please submit a bug report detailing pertinent information, such as your character level, what your total percentage of healing amplification should be, your equipment/enhancements contributing to it, and your actual observed percentage of healing amplification?

If you can include your character name, account name, and server, then our Quality Assurance team can also grab a local copy of your character, which will be extremely helpful for finding steps to reproduce the problem.

You can use the bug reporting page here: http://forums.ddo.com/new_bug.php

Thanks!

I couldn't help but laugh at where my twisted mind went with this and sorry you are the brunt of this twisted humor Father but here's where my mind went...


Mr Mech gets demanding and *upsets* the devs.
Dev replies... give us your account and toon information.
Next week Mr Mech panic posts * O.M.G!!! Where are all my toons?*

LMAO

[Dolphious]

When HOrcs came out they took all of the melee unique stuff from WF, MOtUD took the racial resists, and it has been a long time since a original Docent has been added to the game.

.

Wut? There are two entirely unique docents in the latest update.

And lets not forget now much versatility a docent has over a specific armor, my Monk/rogue would LOVE an epic bladesmark robe (for unbalancing strike).

Don't get me wrong, WF do need love, but honestly they aren't even on the top of the races for needing love (besides fixing this amp problem, that is a legitimate tier 1 bug IMO) that "honor" has got to go to elves, probably followed by halflings, drow, and dwarves. WF at least do some things really well (best archmages, arguably best sorcs) what do elves do well?

But the problem isn't gear, it's the weak enhancements compared to the master races of human, helf, and horc.

[fyrst.grok]

Wut? There are two entirely unique docents in the latest update.

And lets not forget now much versatility a docent has over a specific armor, my Monk/rogue would LOVE an epic bladesmark robe (for unbalancing strike).

Don't get me wrong, WF do need love, but honestly they aren't even on the top of the races for needing love (besides fixing this amp problem, that is a legitimate tier 1 bug IMO) that "honor" has got to go to elves, probably followed by halflings, drow, and dwarves. WF at least do some things really well (best archmages, arguably best sorcs) what do elves do well?

But the problem isn't gear, it's the weak enhancements compared to the master races of human, helf, and horc.

Drows have great dc, dwarves are fine as they are and halflings are IMO one of the best dps races in DDO.
Elves are weak, but still great archers and rapier/scimitar users.

However none of those races are p2p, and none of them are gimped as any class if they haven't grinded gear like maniacs.
Granted the docents have versatility.. But that does not make up for a broken race.

[dubyprime]

Thank you Feather for listening and responding.

[samthedagger]

I have to say I am surprised to hear that some people are still complaining that some healers won't heal their WF toons. My cleric main heals all, whoever needs it. Of course I prefer the enemies lying flat on their backs after a cometfall or flat out dead from implosion (hard to get used to saying consume) so that healing isn't even necessary. But I digress. I am aware of the WF healing amp bug and it usually means WF get one notch higher on the healing chain when they need a spot heal. A few extra SP is not gonna break me or any good healer. And besides that healing is most important for raids and you are usually tossing mass heals anyway.

I empathize with the WF. They are a damned ugly race and I don't like to play them but they ought to be kinda cool since they are p2p.

[BDS]

This bug basically makes my WF barb unplayable. I have SF pots but for the most part am not self healing. Find it funny that they are actually raising the price of this race when it is broken from a non self healing melee perspective.

Other then flavor purposes what is the point in playing a melee WF these days?

[K_0tiC]

This bug basically makes my WF barb unplayable. I have SF pots but for the most part am not self healing. Find it funny that they are actually raising the price of this race when it is broken from a non self healing melee perspective.

Other then flavor purposes what is the point in playing a melee WF these days?

Dont be blaming the bug for how bad that red trashcan is to heal you know it needs another tr and just vendor that red can suit already.

My wf fvs is suffering from the same issue as the op. I have hf tier3 gloves of the claw 30% 10% ship and 20% ring or docent and still get small numbers if i dont have ship buff and the 20% ring on.

hft3 = 75%base x1.1shipx1.3gloves =107.25% so I should see big numbers without the 20% ring on but only see them if I put on the ring or 20% docent which bumps me upto 128.7%. Preupdate I could self heal for 470ish now its like 278 with the heal spell same gear. With mobs hitting so hard in EE quests I cant justify playing this toon at the moment and tr is not a option reddragon scale docent etc isnt going to just sit in the cache due to bugs.

[matttherat88]

Feather I on behalf of all those who play Warforged request that you play a WF. Start at lvl 1 go all the way to 20. Play an arane, a melee, a divine and a specialist.

This will give youa better understanding of some of the things that are lacking/bugged.

When HOrcs came out they took all of the melee unique stuff from WF, MOtUD took the racial resists, and it has been a long time since a original Docent has been added to the game.

Maybe someone is looking at this and it will be fixed in the enhancement pass.

I hope that there is someone on staff who plays each race.

It's funny that you guys are telling them to play the toons. They program them, how can they not know how they work? Everything WF do is produced by coding that someone wrote. Whether they play it or not doesn't make sense. Does Bill Gates not know Windows if he doesn't sit down and use it?

[Auran82]

This is another example of how there is *way* too much hidden information in the game that makes it impossible to work out whether something is working sometimes. I hear we are going to start getting some more info on character sheets regarding spell power etc, but there really is alot more that needs to be available and broken down (if required). Nearly every other MMO has your basic stats, and then the option to expand out and show more detailed stats, there is no reason why we shouldnt have this here as well.

[DarkForte]

You're right. =)
I didn't do any math on it, instead I just made a quick assumption, which was wrong. You're indeed right, and multiplicative stacking Healer's Friend will never catch up with the base increase.
And now, in my shame, I'll stop wasting my time on the forums and get back to fixing bugs!

Thanks for stepping up for the resolution of this issue. If it makes you feel any better, most people don't know healer's friend stacks in a diffent manner, even some who play WF toons.

[Whesper]

It's funny that you guys are telling them to play the toons. They program them, how can they not know how they work? Everything WF do is produced by coding that someone wrote. Whether they play it or not doesn't make sense. Does Bill Gates not know Windows if he doesn't sit down and use it?

The quoted post is so wrong on many levels that I wouldn't know where to begin explaining. Not flaming or anything, just pointing out for the people who might not know better.

[fyrst.grok]

It's funny that you guys are telling them to play the toons. They program them, how can they not know how they work? Everything WF do is produced by coding that someone wrote. Whether they play it or not doesn't make sense. Does Bill Gates not know Windows if he doesn't sit down and use it?

If you have ever written a program that does more that add two numbers you would know that what seems to work code wise usually doesn't work in reality..

I don't want to be rude but that post almost deserves a -1 for being misleading.. However I haven't neg repped you as i assume you just don't know what you're talking about.

[voodoogroves]

It's funny that you guys are telling them to play the toons. They program them, how can they not know how they work? Everything WF do is produced by coding that someone wrote. Whether they play it or not doesn't make sense. Does Bill Gates not know Windows if he doesn't sit down and use it?

Not this.


If you have ever written a program that does more that add two numbers you would know that what seems to work code wise usually doesn't work in reality..

I don't want to be rude but that post almost deserves a -1 for being misleading.. However I haven't neg repped you as i assume you just don't know what you're talking about.

This.




Feather: Did all of the previously-stacking-multiplicatively healing amp things get changed to adds like spellpower? Finger Necklace, Jidz, etc. used to stack somewhat differently. This could go a long way to explaining some of the other healing oddities that folks are seeing, as it wouldn't just be a change to the outgoing devotion spell power, but also a change to how it apples on the incoming.

[Noopleh]

Yup would love this getting fixed.

Playing a WF barbarian who constantly uses Frenzy and Death frenzy and that reaches 1247 HP, that Healer's Friend is really irritating. Couple it with the env effect in the raid which gives reduced healing it's really not fun playing my barbarian.

[Lifeblood]

Maybe add a racial enhancement line along the lines of the helf dilettante allowing access to repair/reconstruct scroll use?

they already have something that works like that..it is called UMD :)

[SilentAssassin82]

I have to agree with Mech, The healing amp needs to be reverted back to what it was. WF have lost alot in the last update as far as immunities go. So why not give a little back instead of making the race useless.

[Qezuzu]

If the enhancements are now applied multiplicatively, why not just double its effect?

Enhancement is "Warforged Healer's Friend I: Benefit from healing spells is increased by 15%." Yet, this isn't true. It would only be true if it said "Your base healing amplification is increased to 65%."

Say, 100 base healing from a spell. 50 with base WF penalty. With Healer's Friend I, you get 65. 50 to 65 is actually a 30% increase.

Just change it to "Warforged Healer's Friend I: Benefit from healing spells is increased by 30%", make sure it's coded as 30%, and keep the multiplicative nature. That's probably easier than changing the way it stacks; I wouldn't think that the benefit Healer's Friend gives is anything more than a value or two.

[MRMechMan]

If the enhancements are now applied multiplicatively, why not just double its effect?

Enhancement is "Warforged Healer's Friend I: Benefit from healing spells is increased by 15%." Yet, this isn't true. It would only be true if it said "Your base healing amplification is increased to 65%."

Say, 100 base healing from a spell. 50 with base WF penalty. With Healer's Friend I, you get 65. 50 to 65 is actually a 30% increase.

Just change it to "Warforged Healer's Friend I: Benefit from healing spells is increased by 30%", make sure it's coded as 30%, and keep the multiplicative nature. That's probably easier than changing the way it stacks; I wouldn't think that the benefit Healer's Friend gives is anything more than a value or two.

I don't really care if it is 30% x 50% or 15% on top of 50%. They are the same. I don't care how it is worded, just how it works ingame.

I just don't want it to be 15% x 50%, which is what is happening now.

Hey FOS, there are some FRDS in it for you if slip up and you make it 30% more than 50% :D

Actually, that wouldn't be a bad idea. WF race is p2p and fairly gutted at the moment. Considering that hp went way up and amp is more important than ever, it sounds reasonable to give WF melee and divines a moderate buff to amp.

[Munkenmo]

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=385326

The math using multiplicative values to give us our old additive totals is extremely simple.

There is enough to quickly test it on lammania and squeeze it into wednesdays update

[Singular]

You're right. =)
I didn't do any math on it, instead I just made a quick assumption, which was wrong. You're indeed right, and multiplicative stacking Healer's Friend will never catch up with the base increase.
And now, in my shame, I'll stop wasting my time on the forums and get back to fixing bugs!

Thank you for working on it!

The forums aren't a waste of time!

:p

[VorpalLaugh]

I don't really care if it is 30% x 50% or 15% on top of 50%. They are the same. I don't care how it is worded, just how it works ingame.

They are not the same. Of course you meant 130% x 50%. This just shows how easy it is to mess things up. What you meant might be obvious to you, me, and any random toddler, but the program would be totally clueless.
This thread, along with other things, makes me wonder if Turbine has enough math and logic minded devs and are they giving the time and means to check stuff.

[MRMechMan]

They are not the same. Of course you meant 130% x 50%. This just shows how easy it is to mess things up. What you meant might be obvious to you, me, and any random toddler, but the program would be totally clueless.
This thread, along with other things, makes me wonder if Turbine has enough math and logic minded devs and are they giving the time and means to check stuff.

Right...30%x50% would be trouble :D

So much stuff has been rushed out the door lately that mistakes were inevitable...I only wish it was a swing in the OTHER direction for WF healing amp, as that actually would have been fairly balancing.

[voodoogroves]

This thread, along with other things, makes me wonder if Turbine has enough math and logic minded devs and are they giving the time and means to check stuff.

When staring at lots of code and strings of variables and numbers, math and logic isn't as useful as luck and good pattern recognition. Seriously. It all looks the same.

[bigolbear]

Thanks to everyone with constructive comments!

I don't usually play Warforged characters, so was unaware that it formerly added to the base healing vulnerability, rather than stacking multiplicative like all other sources of amplification.

This was not an intentional change, it is likely an accidential "halo" effect from some backend coding work for the expansion pack.

Interestingly enough, that means it's a buff for warforged with high enough amplification (who reach over 100% total before this enhancement is taken into account), but for anyone with less, it certainly does have a negative impact.

I'll track down what changed, and see if we can get it fixed back to how it was ASAP for you guys.

Thankyou feather, while your at it plz make sure it gets added to the known issues list -with a priority to fix in the mean time. This is absolutely the kind of dev interaction we need.

we say bug, you say details plz, we give details, you fix. PERFECT. now hop to it ;)

[Chai]

The devs owe the forumites no justification whatsoever. In fact, their participation on the forums at all is optional. The more of this kind of feedback is provided in the wrong place and in the wrong tone, the less they actually want to communicate openly. Of course, the staff member did what they are supposed to and basically outlined how and where to provide the correct information. When this was actually done, note how the problem was outlined and bugged rather quickly.

[Emizand]

Yes, DEMAND.

I am sure many people will have issue with the tone or phrasing of this post

I don't DEMAND anything.

Although on second thoughts I do DEMAND that you don't include me in your general royal 'we'. Cant be bothered reading anymore than that.

So to recap, not read the post, but I DEMAND you do not speak for me without consulting me first.

[VorpalLaugh]

When staring at lots of code and strings of variables and numbers, math and logic isn't as useful as luck and good pattern recognition. Seriously. It all looks the same.

I am talking about before the coding when it is still in "analog".

[MRMechMan]

I don't DEMAND anything.

Although on second thoughts I do DEMAND that you don't include me in your general royal 'we'. Cant be bothered reading anymore than that.

So to recap, not read the post, but I DEMAND you do not speak for me without consulting me first.

"We"=many people I have talked to over the past month or so while this situation was going on, and who wanted this fixed. I don't claim to speak for anyone, but I know for a fact that dozens of people I talked with were of the same mind as me, and absolutely wanted this fixed.

I didn't talk to you, nor do I know you, so why would you think I am speaking for you? That's illogical, and for you to get your undergarments in an uproar about it is rediculous.

Obviously you don't care about this bug as you know nothing about the situation, so why would you assume that you were included as part of the people that care about it, the "we"?

You assumed wrong. "We" does not = everyone on the forums, everyone in the game and most certainly not you. It meant a specific few people that I have been coordinating with to try and unbreak our characters.

[Chai]

I didn't talk to you, nor do I know you, so why would you think I am speaking for you? That's illogical, and for you to get your undergarments in an uproar about it is rediculous.



Whats rediculous is the entire notion that "screaming louder gets more attention" attitude I see alot on the forums over the years, which is vastly incorrect. Note how this popular "squeaky forumite gets the grease" theory was debunked rather quickly evidenced by how fast the bug report process went when the Turbine employee showed up and pointed out the correct place to provide that information while also specifying the correct objective information to provide. (information all known beforehand anyhow, but ignored in favor of this thread). An entire thread of complaining about a bug on the forums got no results where a few bug reports provided over less than one days time with the correct data resulted in the issue being reproduced and logged in their database to be resolved in a future patch. Just think - had you done this the week of release, the issue might be resolved already.

Now if you were running the office pool, would you bet that the forumites actually learned that lesson today, or would you bet that they will continue to "scream louder" in completely the wrong place and in the wrong tone in the future when they want to see, no, DEMAND to see, results more quickly? It should be the former, but Id bet on the latter.

[Scraap]

Whats rediculous is the entire notion that "screaming louder gets more attention" attitude I see alot on the forums over the years, which is vastly incorrect. Note how this popular "squeaky forumite gets the grease" theory was debunked rather quickly evidenced by how fast the bug report process went when the Turbine employee showed up and pointed out the correct place to provide that information while also specifying the correct objective information to provide. (information all known beforehand anyhow, but ignored in favor of this thread). An entire thread of complaining about a bug on the forums got no results where a few bug reports provided over less than one days time with the correct data resulted in the issue being reproduced and logged in their database to be resolved in a future patch. Just think - had you done this the week of release, the issue might be resolved already.

Now if you were running the office pool, would you bet that the forumites actually learned that lesson today, or would you bet that they will continue to "scream louder" in completely the wrong place and in the wrong tone in the future when they want to see, no, DEMAND to see, results more quickly? It should be the former, but Id bet on the latter.

The tone was off, but it wasn't until the employee admitted he didn't grasp what we've been referring to for several weeks now, and asked for clarification, that the underlying issue was understood well enough to address. (Though I'm of the opinion it's still just a band-aid over a sucking wound.)

Was the aggression necessary? Probably not.
Would simply bug reporting it over and over again have done jack? Obviously not.

And Feather: Appreciate it.

[MRMechMan]

Whats rediculous is the entire notion that "screaming louder gets more attention" attitude I see alot on the forums over the years, which is vastly incorrect. Note how this popular "squeaky forumite gets the grease" theory was debunked rather quickly evidenced by how fast the bug report process went when the Turbine employee showed up and pointed out the correct place to provide that information while also specifying the correct objective information to provide. (information all known beforehand anyhow, but ignored in favor of this thread). An entire thread of complaining about a bug on the forums got no results where a few bug reports provided over less than one days time with the correct data resulted in the issue being reproduced and logged in their database to be resolved in a future patch. Just think - had you done this the week of release, the issue might be resolved already.

Now if you were running the office pool, would you bet that the forumites actually learned that lesson today, or would you bet that they will continue to "scream louder" in completely the wrong place and in the wrong tone in the future when they want to see, no, DEMAND to see, results more quickly? It should be the former, but Id bet on the latter.

You say bug reports fixed this? Funny, because I had already personally submitted half a dozen bug reports on it. Starting the day after xpac came out, and every few days since then. Clearly, nothing came of it, and I very much doubt I was the only one.

Funny, because there have been many threads about it before this one. Nothing came of it. For the "what would you most like to see fixed in patch 2" thread, started by madfloyd, I would say "fix WF healers friend!" was one of the most said thing, if not #1. Nothing came of it, still not on the known issues list.

Funny, because every single piece of information as to how this started to (hopefully) get fixed is the EXACT opposite from what you claim.

I said in the OP that many people would have a problem with my tone. I expected it, and apologized for it in advance, but there was nothing else to do.

When it isn't on known issues list for 1month, when everyone knows something is very wrong, when there is no dev response to it, when no patch or release notes mention it, when PMs to devs are ignored, when in game testing consistantly shows something is very wrong...what else are we supposed to do?

Clearly the systems in place are not working. I don't want to set a precedent for "yell louder and your bug gets fixed" but that is exactly the corner that this situation was pushed into. And thats a shame. Something should be changed.

You say that the established channels were what got this fixed? Not even close to correct. Read the thread and that is very apparant to anyone.

The fact that you even think bug reports are what fixed this shows how little knowledge you have of what actually happened here.

[Chai]

You just proved my point, literallty, when the employee provided the information on how and where to submit the bug report, and what information to include, which got the issue bugged in one day. Compare that to the numerous threads complaining about the same issue on the forums over the last month garnering no result.

Yeah, funny.

Established channels DID get it bugged and on its way to being fixed. Anyone reading the entire thread objectively will be able to garner that information.

Clearly the system in place IS working. People just prefer quantity based forum ranting rather than actually using the actual in place system.

Nothing else to do? Clearly this is incorrect, because once you were shown exactly what to do, the process yeilded the desired result in 1/30th of the time that an entire month of forum complaints did not.




The fact that you even think bug reports are what fixed this shows how little knowledge you have of what actually happened here.

This puts a tight lid on it right here. Insults are the calling card of those who understand they were incorrect, but wish to keep arguing. Please refrain from quoting anything I post and replying with insults. Youre not the only one with a vested interest in getting the issue resolved. /taps sig - bug reports come from 100% of the population. Most of those people arent even on the forums.

[Munkenmo]

The devs owe the forumites no justification whatsoever. In fact, their participation on the forums at all is optional. The more of this kind of feedback is provided in the wrong place and in the wrong tone, the less they actually want to communicate openly. Of course, the staff member did what they are supposed to and basically outlined how and where to provide the correct information. When this was actually done, note how the problem was outlined and bugged rather quickly.

i reported this on lammania using the bug report tool, and i reported this on live on release day using the bug report tool.

the problem was still unknown to this dev now, a month later.

Whilst forum participation is optional, this thread is a perfect example of why dev participation can be extremely useful.

[scoobmx]

You just proved my point, literallty, when the employee provided the information on how and where to submit the bug report, and what information to include, which got the issue bugged in one day. Compare that to the numerous threads complaining about the same issue on the forums over the last month garnering no result.

Yeah, funny.

Established channels DID get it bugged and on its way to being fixed. Anyone reading the entire thread objectively will be able to garner that information.

Clearly the system in place IS working. People just prefer quantity based forum ranting rather than actually using the actual in place system.

Nothing else to do? Clearly this is incorrect, because once you were shown exactly what to do, the process yeilded the desired result in 1/30th of the time that an entire month of forum complaints did not.



This puts a tight lid on it right here. Insults are the calling card of those who understand they were incorrect, but wish to keep arguing. Please refrain from quoting anything I post and replying with insults.

Actually if you read this thread objectively you will see that going through the proper channels resulted in a dev investigating it and then dismissing it as 'working as intended'.

[MRMechMan]

You just proved my point, literallty, when the employee provided the information on how and where to submit the bug report, and what information to include, which got the issue bugged in one day. Compare that to the numerous threads complaining about the same issue on the forums over the last month garnering no result.

Yeah, funny.

Established channels DID get it bugged and on its way to being fixed. Anyone reading the entire thread objectively will be able to garner that information.

Clearly the system in place IS working. People just prefer quantity based forum ranting rather than actually using the actual in place system.

Nothing else to do? Clearly this is incorrect, because once you were shown exactly what to do, the process yeilded the desired result in 1/30th of the time that an entire month of forum complaints did not.



This puts a tight lid on it right here. Insults are the calling card of those who understand they were incorrect, but wish to keep arguing. Please refrain from quoting anything I post and replying with insults.

Whoopie, the dev provided *exactly* what myself and many others had been doing multiple times a week for nearly a month, and you think it just happened to work *that time*? 100th time is the charm...or maybe, just maybe...

...it was the descriptions *IN THE THREAD* that did it. Never saw anything come of any bug report, but I still file em.

You really think the bug report was what did it?

Did you not read what I wrote? I had already submitted MANY bug reports. Myself and many others have started other threads on the subject. If you think that the 12th bug report I filled was what did it, you are delusional.

Clearly explaining the bug in the thread was what did it-the description was wrong and that was what was muddying the water as to how the HF was working.

Nothing else to do...yes, when dozens of bug reports have been submitted, dozens of threads have been posted, and a bug that breaks 3/4 of my characters is still unacknowledged, I am going to get frustrated, and I am going to post something about that.

[Yan_PL]

And now, in my shame, I'll stop wasting my time on the forums and get back to fixing bugs!somehow, i have an extra suspicious feeling about this.

[Chai]

Actually if you read this thread objectively you will see that going through the proper channels resulted in a dev investigating it and then dismissing it as 'working as intended'.

Until going through the proper channels WITH THE PROPER INFORMATION made them draw the correct conclusion. The caps portion was also in my previous posts.

[Missing_Minds]

You just proved my point, literallty, when the employee provided the information on how and where to submit the bug report, and what information to include, which got the issue bugged in one day. Compare that to the numerous threads complaining about the same issue on the forums over the last month garnering no result.

Chai... I give unto you the "Mouse is over the UI, I can't attack!!!" issue.

Per the developers, that was "working as intended" if you read between the lines. (that insight was only gained in the last 2 months?) But clearly it was a change from how the system acted.

It took me SIX FRIGGEN YEARS to get it fixed. I lost track of the number of bug reports I submitted.
I know for a fact that the issue ticked off some of Turbine's people even, but still after 6 years no fix.

Do you know what it took? Catching the attention of a developer that got curious enough to have a look.

This is why we rant, this is why we plead, this is why we try to garner support on the forums. In hopes of catching an eye, preferably the correct eye, to get an issue resolved.

I now no longer have to deal with that issue, and I am MUCH revealed.

[MRMechMan]

Until going through the proper channels WITH THE PROPER INFORMATION made them draw the correct conclusion. The caps portion was also in my previous posts.

Same info I had been submitting all along.

Took me 1min to realize my amp was broken, another minute of talking in vent to realize it wasn't just me, and maybe another 5min to realize exactly how-the stacking amp was off.

Took me 5 more minutes to file a bug report. It was very descriptive. That was ~ a month ago.

Same info. Many times since. Heard nothing back, never appeared on known issues list, and never fixed in any patch or update.

Sorry but you are just wrong on this one.

[Chai]

Same info I had been submitting all along.

Took me 1min to realize my amp was broken, another minute of talking in vent to realize it wasn't just me, and maybe another 5min to realize exactly how-the stacking amp was off.

Took me 5 more minutes to file a bug report. It was very descriptive. That was ~ a month ago.

Same info. Many times since. Heard nothing back, never appeared on known issues list, and never fixed in any patch or update.

Sorry but you are just wrong on this one.

Sorry, but I am absolutely correct on this one. Bug reports do not solicit a response. The fact that you heard nothing back =/= them not being aware of the issue. Dev posted testing showing WAI - math was shown in specific bug reports indicating dev making false assumption. Dev posted indicating the same and that its now bugged. All in a days good work, which beats a months worth of quantity based forum moaning. If this is how forumite/dev communication always occurred, alot more of these lingering problems would be resolved over the years.

[scoobmx]

Sorry, but I am absolutely correct on this one. Bug reports do not solicit a response. The fact that you heard nothing back =/= them not being aware of the issue. Dev posted testing showing WAI - math was shown in specific bug reports indicating dev making false assumption. Dev posted indicating the same and that its now bugged. All in a days good work, which beats a months worth of quantity based forum moaning. If this is how forumite/dev communication always occurred, alot more of these lingering problems would be resolved over the years.

I showed the math in a forum post, not bug report.

[JOTMON]

Sorry, but I am absolutely correct on this one. Bug reports do not solicit a response. The fact that you heard nothing back =/= them not being aware of the issue. Dev posted testing showing WAI - math was shown in specific bug reports indicating dev making false assumption. Dev posted indicating the same and that its now bugged. All in a days good work, which beats a months worth of quantity based forum moaning. If this is how forumite/dev communication always occurred, alot more of these lingering problems would be resolved over the years.

your so called forum moaning was the cry that got the attention.

Dev's blew off the bug report as Feather looked at it and decided it was working as he incorrectly believed as WAI.
It took the forums and repreted complaints for him to recognize there was a problem. he even said he never played WF so he didn't understand the WF mechanic.

math was shown here in the forum post.

[Chai]

I showed the math in a forum post, not bug report.

If you had shown it in the bug report 30 days ago, then DEMANDS dont have to be made. K~

[Chai]

your so called forum moaning was the cry that got the attention.

30 days of nerd rage late. If bug reported 30 days ago with the correct information, none of the rest of this is needed.


your Dev's blew off the bug report as Feather looked at it and decided it was working as he incorrectly believed as WAI.
It took the forums and repreted complaints for him to recognize there was a problem. he even said he never played WF so he didn't understand the WF mechanic.

math was shown here in the forum post.

Nerp. Devs blew off previous forum moaning, because they see it for what it is and do not wish to spend the time combing through hundreds of posts to find the one piece of information needed. Instead, that one piece of relevant information needs to be in the bug report with other relevant objective information. Then there wont be a 30 day wait for stuff to get acknowledged.

We have seen quite a bit of evidence over the years regarding how complaining on the forums doesnt work to get issues fixed. The more loud quantity based rioting occurs, the more the people who need to hear the relevant information burried within hundreds of posts in said rioting steer clear of it.

[scoobmx]

If you had shown it in the bug report 30 days ago, then DEMANDS dont have to be made. K~

Nobody would have even thought the devs don't know the proper healing amp formula. Without feather's forum post nobody would have shown that math.

[Emizand]

We DEMAND a dev response to broken healers friend.

You see I have a problem with 'we'! People use it to add weight to arguments, debates or even bullying. You never defined your 'we' so it could well have included me, or just have been you and your hamster.



"We"=many people I have talked to


"We" does not = everyone on the forums, everyone in the game and most certainly not you. It meant a specific few people that I have been coordinating

So what is it, many or a specific few?




I don't claim to speak for anyone,

But that is exactly what you are doing. You are stating that 'we' (without defining whether that is many or a specific few {which people could think may include me}) DEMAND a response. I thought you post was rude, abusive and aggressive and just wanted to make sure nobody on these forms thought I was included in your we.

[Scraap]

Nobody would have even thought the devs don't know the proper healing amp formula. Without feather's forum post nobody would have shown that math.

Precisely. They want to pay me, they'll get a 5 page report on every possible little point of potential causality.

Till that happens, following up on bugs still being reported that you're sure you've fixed is simple software services 101. I expect it from myself, I expect it from my subcontractors, and I see no reason to lower the bar for someone else.

[MRMechMan]

30 days of nerd rage late. If bug reported 30 days ago with the correct information, none of the rest of this is needed.



Nerp. Devs blew off previous forum moaning, because they see it for what it is and do not wish to spend the time combing through hundreds of posts to find the one piece of information needed. Instead, that one piece of relevant information needs to be in the bug report with other relevant objective information. Then there wont be a 30 day wait for stuff to get acknowledged.

We have seen quite a bit of evidence over the years regarding how complaining on the forums doesnt work to get issues fixed. The more loud quantity based rioting occurs, the more the people who need to hear the relevant information burried within hundreds of posts in said rioting steer clear of it.

Best **** troll on here!

[Missing_Minds]

Chai... this time, let it go. You are not correct.

If the bug report system was perfect, which implies that human beings are perfect, yes a bug report would have been sufficient.

However, in this case, a human did not understand the issue so then the bug report system failed.

[Munkenmo]

If you had shown it in the bug report 30 days ago, then DEMANDS dont have to be made. K~

As I said before, I submitted my bug report a month ago. On lammania and on live.

Given the attitude you've taken in this thread, I'll elaborate, I did include math in my bug report to compare expected vs actual resutls.

Upon seeing Feathers response in this thread, in this instance, there is no doubt that the forum helped more than the multiple bug reports that were submitted by myself and others over the past month.

[JOTMON]

We have seen quite a bit of evidence over the years regarding how complaining on the forums doesnt work to get issues fixed. The more loud quantity based rioting occurs, the more the people who need to hear the relevant information burried within hundreds of posts in said rioting steer clear of it.

My unanswered bug reports from 2 years ago say different.

I see more fast tracked fixes on the forums than I see from bug reports that seem to go into unanswered emails

[katz]

chai, seriously... give it a rest.


this is a clearcut case of getting results from a forums post. i've had a couple of those myself (monk off-centered fort loss springs to mind). i don't much like the tone of the OP, but it got the job done.


FoS...... THANK YOU.... thank you for stepping in here and talking with us and getting what *exactly* the issue was. thank you for your hard work to fix the broken things. i know there are many many more broken things, but i can see from the expected release notes you guys have been busy. please... say a big thanks to everyone in the office for me. i think they deserve it

[Purgatorii]

Thanks to everyone with constructive comments!

I don't usually play Warforged characters, so was unaware that it formerly added to the base healing vulnerability, rather than stacking multiplicative like all other sources of amplification.

This was not an intentional change, it is likely an accidential "halo" effect from some backend coding work for the expansion pack.

Interestingly enough, that means it's a buff for warforged with high enough amplification (who reach over 100% total before this enhancement is taken into account), but for anyone with less, it certainly does have a negative impact.

I'll track down what changed, and see if we can get it fixed back to how it was ASAP for you guys.

Thanks, but I TRed my monk to a fleshy because you guys were not acknowleding this bug. Now how about fixing Vorpal Strikes so it actually vorpals? I know, I know, different topic needs a different thread.

[DarkForte]

So... patch is here and there is neither a fix nor is it a known issue?

[Thorin2001]

I too was hoping it would somehow get fixed with today's patch... :(
Can we get an estimated time when it will get fixed?
FoS?
Anyone?
Does ASAP mean Update 15?

[Siftrant]

As I said before, the complete lack of response is your response. This is an intended nerf. This change is not accidental or a bug. There is no issue here as far as the devs are concerned. It has been intentionally changed to be less of a benefit for Warforged.

I can't think of another way to say it.

Compare this thread to the "repeater reload speed" thread. See the difference in response? That was unintended, this is not. They want people to take more damage and have to use more SP to heal it. This falls directly in line with the lowering of the effectiveness of healing spells at high levels, the poison change, etc. This is in-line with the stated goals of the most recent set of changes. They aren't acknowledging it as a bug because it isn't.

[Siftrant]

You see I have a problem with 'we'! ...

I thought you post was rude, abusive and aggressive and just wanted to make sure nobody on these forms thought I was included in your we.

So to follow this through, unless a group of individuals have specifically checked with Emizand regarding that individuals agreement with a statement the group must specify individually each member of the group for which the claim is being made? Or simply exclude Emizand specifically such as: We, excluding one Emizand, ...? That can also get unwieldy. Why should such a group extend specific exclusion to Emizand and not to any other individuals? That leads us to the belief a group must canvas the entire potential population of "we" to ascertain the agreement or disagreement of each individual. Then when making a statement specifically exclude or include each individual as makes the ownership of the statement clear? Alternatively we could abolish the use of "we" and and individual can only post on behalf of themselves. This leads to potentially hundreds of duplicate posts, or worse yet threads, as each individual in agreement would then need to make post of their own to state their agreement with a statement or request.

Wow -- I think we can all rely on the fact that rarely does "we" mean, or even imply, all possible parties with an opinion on a statement or situation. Of course you, Emizand, may continue to believe that every time "we" is used the developers and QA staff at Turbine or the readers of this forum are saying to themselves, "So Emizand agrees with this?". Which could be true for all we know.

[tasebro]

... the devs ... want people to take more damage and have to use more SP to heal it. This falls directly in line with the lowering of the effectiveness of healing spells at high levels, the poison change, etc. This is in-line with the stated goals of the most recent set of changes. They aren't acknowledging it as a bug because it isn't.

Correct analysis.

Problem with this nerf is that more spellpoints wasted on lame "housekeeping" by definition means that much LESS spellpoints devoted to contribution of quest completion. Ditto that goes for the 50% nerf on divine casting.

Collectively these nerfs do not meet my definition of "fun" nor my definition of "awesome"; in fact these nerfs do meet my definition of "game breaking", from the point of view that any nerf that spoils "fun" and "awesome" is fundamentally a *disincentive* to even bother logging in and putting up with it.

Reverse the nerf on warforged healing; restore WF Healer's Friend asap.
Reverse the 50% nerf on divine casting; restore full power divine casting asap.

[katz]

As I said before, the complete lack of response is your response. This is an intended nerf. This change is not accidental or a bug. There is no issue here as far as the devs are concerned. It has been intentionally changed to be less of a benefit for Warforged.

I can't think of another way to say it.

Compare this thread to the "repeater reload speed" thread. See the difference in response? That was unintended, this is not. They want people to take more damage and have to use more SP to heal it. This falls directly in line with the lowering of the effectiveness of healing spells at high levels, the poison change, etc. This is in-line with the stated goals of the most recent set of changes. They aren't acknowledging it as a bug because it isn't.


Thanks to everyone with constructive comments!

I don't usually play Warforged characters, so was unaware that it formerly added to the base healing vulnerability, rather than stacking multiplicative like all other sources of amplification.

This was not an intentional change (emphasis mine), it is likely an accidential "halo" effect from some backend coding work for the expansion pack.

...

I'll track down what changed, and see if we can get it fixed back to how it was ASAP for you guys.

This post says you're wrong, Sif. read before you shoot your mouth off please.

[Siftrant]

This post says you're wrong, Sif. read before you shoot your mouth off please.

Oh, and FoS has never posted an incorrect communication on this forum in the past? Did you notice that his last post on the topic was 6 days ago? I ask you to compare the response to this issue vs. the response to the repeater issue.

This issue -- response of "Oh wow I have not idea how that worked. Its not intentional. I'll get it checked out." (paraphrased) and then dead silence. 6 days and nothing more and no fix included in the release notes, and no statement that it is an acknowledged issue. Just one Dev making a statement with no follow-up. And this is after the "issue" has existed since the release of MotU.

Compare that with the "Repeater reload issue" -- Issue raised, Dev response pretty quickly, clear statement that is an issue and (most importantly) will be fixed, and the patch date even being pushed back to include the fix.

See the difference? Turbine has a very repeatable history of changes that players see as "bugs" that turn out to be intentional nerfs. You'll notice that healer's friend isn't "not working" it just isn't working "as well as it did before". Odd that. Something like the healing nerf that took Turbine quite a while to cop to.

So... umm... how about checking out context and taking your own advice?

[Chai]

chai, seriously... give it a rest.


this is a clearcut case of getting results from a forums post. i've had a couple of those myself (monk off-centered fort loss springs to mind). i don't much like the tone of the OP, but it got the job done.

Had this been reported correctly with the correct numbers in the first place it would be fixed already. Instead, one month of quantity based complaining went by before the correct situational numbers were shown. People correctly bug reported this before? Please. They didnt even provide the correct data until the dev specified the information they wanted to see.

Ive been working in software for quite a while now and see this same type of overblown forum ranting on a daily basis. Most people who engage in this do not have a support ticket or bug report logged. You guys lucked out here once and a dev responded, so that makes you neglect to take into consideration the high number of times threads like this get started about bugs that have been around for years that garner no response whatsoever, simply because the devs job description does not include weeding through thousands of back and forth posts to find the one piece of information they required, which could have and should have been submitted in a bug report anyhow.

This thread got ther job done? Incorrect. The correct reporting of data got the job done. The fact that a dev went above and beyond in order to reach out to forumites is what got the job done. That job would have been done alot sooner if this was reported with the correct numbers, in the correct place and in the correct tone. They already were aware we thought there was an issue, but did not have the correct data to show that was the case.

Give it a rest? Yes, the overblown hyperbolous ad hominem nerd rage forum posts about bugs supposedly never getting fixed do need to be given a rest, because justifying threads like this saying they get bugs fixed more quickly is incorrect. You lucked out this time, but the plethora of long standing bugs the forumites still moan about over the years is a huge pile of evidence against your little theory of more rage = more attention. If this was the case, this game would have no bugs whatsoever, because there certainly is no lack of rage on the forums when they do happen. :p

[MRMechMan]

Had this been reported correctly with the correct numbers in the first place it would be fixed already. Instead, one month of quantity based complaining went by before the correct situational numbers were shown. People correctly bug reported this before? Please. They didnt even provide the correct data until the dev specified the information they wanted to see.

Ive been working in software for quite a while now and see this same type of overblown forum ranting on a daily basis. Most people who engage in this do not have a support ticket or bug report logged. You guys lucked out here once and a dev responded, so that makes you neglect to take into consideration the high number of times threads like this get started about bugs that have been around for years that garner no response whatsoever, simply because the devs job description does not include weeding through thousands of back and forth posts to find the one piece of information they required, which could have and should have been submitted in a bug report anyhow.

This thread got ther job done? Incorrect. The correct reporting of data got the job done. The fact that a dev went above and beyond in order to reach out to forumites is what got the job done. That job would have been done alot sooner if this was reported with the correct numbers, in the correct place and in the correct tone. They already were aware we thought there was an issue, but did not have the correct data to show that was the case.

Give it a rest? Yes, the overblown hyperbolous ad hominem nerd rage forum posts about bugs supposedly never getting fixed do need to be given a rest, because justifying threads like this saying they get bugs fixed more quickly is incorrect. You lucked out this time, but the plethora of long standing bugs the forumites still moan about over the years is a huge pile of evidence against your little theory of more rage = more attention. If this was the case, this game would have no bugs whatsoever, because there certainly is no lack of rage on the forums when they do happen. :p

The bug report that I submitted was literally a very detailed, descriptive, specific copy/paste version of what I have been submitting for weeks. Have you been reading what myself and others have said about having posted bug reports already?

Anyone who reads this thread knows you are wrong, maybe you should drop it, you are only making yourself look worse.

Technically this thread has still done nothing as it is still not on the known issues list, nor has it been fixed, but it certainly did more than the other 8-10 bug reports I had already submitted. Hopefully something comes of it.

Maybe you should quit while you're behind.

[Chai]

The bug report that I submitted was literally a very detailed, descriptive, specific copy/paste version of what I have been submitting for weeks. Have you been reading what myself and others have said about having posted bug reports already?

Yeap, I read it. I also read the dev post specifying what they want as far as information goes, read the post submitting that info, and saw them admit their error rather quickly. Conclusion - previous bug reports lacked that information.


Anyone who reads this thread knows you are wrong, maybe you should drop it, you are only making yourself look worse.

Thats not what my IMs show me.


Technically this thread has still done nothing as it is still not on the known issues list, nor has it been fixed, but it certainly did more than the other 8-10 bug reports I had already submitted. Hopefully something comes of it.

Because an employee went above and beyond their job description to request the info that should have been reported in the first place.


Maybe you should quit while you're behind.

Your own advice, you should take. Each time these rants are posted it makes employees pay less and less attention to the forum base. You lucked out this time, but the majority of forum ranting does not yeild this fruit.

[falcate]

Duck and cover

nvm

[MRMechMan]

Yeap, I read it. I also read the dev post specifying what they want as far as information goes, read the post submitting that info, and saw them admit their error rather quickly. Conclusion - previous bug reports lacked that information.


Your conclusion is wrong here.


I can tell you this with absolute certainty because I submitted bug reports that had the same information as the one this time, and the same information that I posted in this thread. How many times do I have to say it?

If you choose to ignore that fact that's on you.

[Chai]

Your conclusion is wrong here.


I can tell you this with absolute certainty because I submitted bug reports that had the same information as the one this time, and the same information that I posted in this thread. How many times do I have to say it?

If you choose to ignore that fact that's on you.

Repetition =/= fact. 30 days of repetition did not do the same thing one instance of reporting desired factual information did. Theres 6 years of case history on my side here, starting with the old post beta threads where people were harping that the game wouldnt last 6 months in the wild. Where are they now? We're still here.

[Hokiewa]

Repetition =/= fact.

I find this very amusing

[Munkenmo]

Had this been reported correctly with the correct numbers in the first place it would be fixed already. Instead, one month of quantity based complaining went by before the correct situational numbers were shown. People correctly bug reported this before? Please. They didnt even provide the correct data until the dev specified the information they wanted to see.

<snip>

This thread got ther job done? Incorrect.
<snip>
forum posts about bugs supposedly never getting fixed do need to be given a rest, <snip>
You lucked out this tim

Give up, as I've stated in this thread, I filed this as a bug report, with correct math a month ago. You're doing a damned good job of glossing over that to prove your incorrect point.

You're posting bold claims without facts, you're ingoring posts in this thread, and you're contradicting yourself.

Give up.

[katz]

Oh, and FoS has never posted an incorrect communication on this forum in the past? Did you notice that his last post on the topic was 6 days ago? I ask you to compare the response to this issue vs. the response to the repeater issue.

This issue -- response of "Oh wow I have not idea how that worked. Its not intentional. I'll get it checked out." (paraphrased) and then dead silence. 6 days and nothing more and no fix included in the release notes, and no statement that it is an acknowledged issue. Just one Dev making a statement with no follow-up. And this is after the "issue" has existed since the release of MotU.

Compare that with the "Repeater reload issue" -- Issue raised, Dev response pretty quickly, clear statement that is an issue and (most importantly) will be fixed, and the patch date even being pushed back to include the fix.

See the difference? Turbine has a very repeatable history of changes that players see as "bugs" that turn out to be intentional nerfs. You'll notice that healer's friend isn't "not working" it just isn't working "as well as it did before". Odd that. Something like the healing nerf that took Turbine quite a while to cop to.

So... umm... how about checking out context and taking your own advice?

heh. took em a month to fix ranged to-hit, too. same pattern. bugged, posted, finally get an acknowledgement, silence. patch 1 not pushed back. we wait. we wait. we wait. boom, it's fixed in patch 2. i'm not sure if it ever ended up in the known issues list or not (my internet is teh sux right now so i can't check easily), but like that's kept 100% up-to-date :rolleyes:
a dev said it's broken. i'm not taking YOUR word for it that it isn't.

try again?

[Perspicacity]

I have to say that I am fascinated by Chai. If he's wrong he's just talking out of his brown eye and if hes right he's still committing the same unsolicited misguided nerd rage he's supposedly against. Never does it occur to him that if he is in fact right (which most think hes not) it only serves as evidence that the system is wrong. 'Nerd rage' on the forums SHOULD get a response because they do owe paying customers some form of accountability.

I saw last week a list of the top ten most played MMOs (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/118411-League-of-Legends-Topples-World-of-Warcraft-as-Most-Played-PC-Game?amp&amp) on the internet and DDO didn't even get mentioned. With all the stiff competition out there they should be doing everything they can to keep us cause honestly if I want a developer to treat me like I don't matter I'll go play a game where at least the quality of the product warrants the devs arrogance.

Your right, they don't 'owe' us an explanation just like we don't 'owe' them our hard earned money but if they want to keep getting our money then they will give us an explanation when we ask for it, not at there convenience. Customer service and accountability is how DDO is going to stick around through the next generation of MMOs, period. If they listen to people like you then they're saying they don't want customers.

On a personal note, you really should just stop wasting your time on these forums Chai if this is going to be your attitude. None of the player base is listening to you and I hope, for the sake of the game, the developers aren't either.

[Chai]

Give up, as I've stated in this quest, I filed this as a bug report, with correct math a month ago. You're doing a damned good job of glossing over that to prove your incorrect point.

You're posting bold posts without facts, you're ingoring posts in this thread, and you're contradicting yourself.

Give up.

Ive always been right on this issue. For 6 years playing this game, as well as when managing my own PW server in another, and playing/MODing in other MMOs. The facts are all in the bugs that people harp about daily, yet still exist, then YEARS later an employee posts that its a new issue. Devs have even posted what types of posts they read and which types they usually ignore. You got lucky this time. This thread is the exception and not the rule. Give up pointing out the truth? Never. Ciao.

[Perspicacity]

Ive always been right on this issue. For 6 years playing this game, as well as when managing my own PW server in another, and playing/MODing in other MMOs. The facts are all in the bugs that people harp about daily, yet still exist, then YEARS later an employee posts that its a new issue. Devs have even posted what types of posts they read and which types they usually ignore. You got lucky this time. This thread is the exception and not the rule. Give up pointing out the truth? Never. Ciao.

Wow, Did you work at NASA to? The hubris is overwhelming. I think it shorted out my graphics card. No one cares about your make believe credentials Chai and no one is ever going to take anything you say with more than a grain of salt cause right or not, your so obnoxious in your presentation that people will fight against you out of spite. Your own pride is your greatest barrier and I don't think you'll ever over come it.

P.S. I can see this thread is spiraling down so I'm not going to entertain Chai's nonsense any more I advise everyone else to do the same. Let him flame himself.

[Chai]

I have to say that I am fascinated by Chai. If he's wrong he's just talking out of his brown eye and if hes right he's still committing the same unsolicited misguided nerd rage he's supposedly against. Never does it occur to him that if he is in fact right (which most think hes not) it only serves as evidence that the system is wrong. 'Nerd rage' on the forums SHOULD get a response because they do owe paying customers some form of accountability.

I saw last week a list of the top ten most played MMOs (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/118411-League-of-Legends-Topples-World-of-Warcraft-as-Most-Played-PC-Game?amp&amp) on the internet and DDO didn't even get mentioned. With all the stiff competition out there they should be doing everything they can to keep us cause honestly if I want a developer to treat me like I don't matter I'll go play a game where at least the quality of the product warrants the devs arrogance.

Your right, they don't 'owe' us an explanation just like we don't 'owe' them our hard earned money but if they want to keep getting our money then they will give us an explanation when we ask for it, not at there convenience. Customer service and accountability is how DDO is going to stick around through the next generation of MMOs, period. If they listen to people like you then they're saying they don't want customers.

Quantity of players =/= best profits. Its often times companies who do not understand their own limitations and grab too much marketshare that fold. While Blizzard has done well by grabbing alot of marketshare, alot of those other MMOs are not doing so hot financially because they overextended themselves. This is something Turbine understands which is why they have not catered to the LCD in order to drive up a ton of marketshare. Getting into that relationship is easy, but most of those MMO companies who try to copy Blizzards success soon find out that maintaining that relationship is very difficult. Its better to grab 8% of the market share and reap 40% profit margins than grab 20% of the market share and reap 2-3% profits, which over time usually go into the red due to not being able to maintain.

And please, one thing Turbine also knows is its the SAME PEOPLE who are always threatening to vacate the minute their desires arent satisfied, but that often predicted mass exodus never occurs. Half a decades worth of evidence exists right here on these forums to back that statement up.


On a personal note, you really should just stop wasting your time on these forums Chai if this is going to be your attitude. None of the player base is listening to you and I hope, for the sake of the game, the developers aren't either.

This is vastly incorrect. Its certainly not what my PMs and IMs indicate. On a personal note, you should stop making personal comments, because it is against the rules to do so. Simply disagreeing with me on the internet doesnt make me any of the things raging forumites say I am. Ad Hominem is not a valid debate tactic. Each time they use it, they lose the thread, and clearly indicate having done so through its usage.


... cause right or not, your so obnoxious in your presentation that people will fight against you out of spite. .

People post they way your posting right now because they understand I am correct on the issue, and they cant stand it. Theres no logical way to rebuke someone in this state of affairs so the ad hominem attacks commence, which are a clear indication of what I just stated. No one pays this much attention to someone who is wrong. No one comes back with this much ad hominem banter when "no one listens to or cares about" what that person has to say, which you state but continue to realize isnt true. No one bangs their head against the points made by one person that much if they truely believe that person is incorrect. You clearly understand as much as I do that the sheer amount of forum rage surrounding specific bugs is the single largest barrier to getting them resolved. When I point that out, people try to justify the forum rage like its a necessity. Like if they didnt post rants none of the bugs would get fixed as quickly as they do. When I pulled their card on that, the realization that I am correct on that issue is what irritates people the most. Thats why they keep coming back, wrap my posts in quotes, and post nothing but personal attacks, which is something I plan to address in regards to replies to my posts, as well as point out how much of it exists on the forums as a whole, in the near future.

[fyrst.grok]

Since it won't be long till this thread have been derailed by name calling and personal attacks. I would just like to ask the admin tasked with closing it to at least add the bug to the known bug list so it will be fixed ASAP..

[Thorin2001]

Since it won't be long till this thread have been derailed by name calling and personal attacks.
Won't be long?
Already happened...
Back on topic, pls.

We demanded a dev-response. We got 3 in this thread.
Now we would really like to see the announcement of an estimated time, when this will get fixed. Thx. (14.2 didn't work. What about 15?)

[katz]

People post they way your posting right now because they understand I am correct on the issue, and they cant stand it. Theres no logical way to rebuke someone in this state of affairs so the ad hominem attacks commence, which are a clear indication of what I just stated. No one pays this much attention to someone who is wrong. No one comes back with this much ad hominem banter when "no one listens to or cares about" what that person has to say, which you state but continue to realize isnt true. No one bangs their head against the points made by one person that much if they truely believe that person is incorrect. You clearly understand as much as I do that the sheer amount of forum rage surrounding specific bugs is the single largest barrier to getting them resolved. When I point that out, people try to justify the forum rage like its a necessity. Like if they didnt post rants none of the bugs would get fixed as quickly as they do. When I pulled their card on that, the realization that I am correct on that issue is what irritates people the most. Thats why they keep coming back, wrap my posts in quotes, and post nothing but personal attacks, which is something I plan to address in regards to replies to my posts, as well as point out how much of it exists on the forums as a whole, in the near future.

just FYI, i have not made any ad hominem attacks on you in this thread. but also, you are not 100% right in your stance. i will agree with you that RAGE on the forums is counterproductive. HOWEVER... with a bug report tool that works sporadically and bugs that have floated around for AGES.. YEARS sometimes... only to finally be acknowledged with "oh, i never knew that was a bug!" dictates that at least SOME post on the forum should be made as a followup to a bug report. AND, the devs themselves backed this up. i can hunt down the post if you REALLY want me to, but a while back one of the devs TOLD us to post bugs on the forum in addition to attempting to bug report.

and one last thing. you say "No one pays this much attention to someone who is wrong." if that's the case, then (honest question, not a personal attack) why are you paying so much attention to this thread?

[Chai]

and one last thing. you say "No one pays this much attention to someone who is wrong." if that's the case, then (honest question, not a personal attack) why are you paying so much attention to this thread?

Because I too have a vested interest in seeing bugs fixed, and have observed over the years the actions taken that get the bug logged the soonest -vs- the actions taken that get ignored the most. A dev even posted what type of posts he reads and what type of posts he ignores a short time ago, which enforces literally what I am saying here. This is not me assuming or surmising anything. They came right out and said it, and this conveyed a complete understanding why we see alot of "why is this bug not fixed when we told you about it 4 weeks before release" - all one has to do is go back and read that specific post, and then read the post detailing the bug, and they too will understand why that stuff gets ignored most of the time.

[Siftrant]

This post says you're wrong, Sif. read before you shoot your mouth off please.

Hey Katz -- did ya see the new post in the broken things in MotU thread? LOL, told ya. In alot more words they just said -- "Yep we nerfed the heck out of the lower tiers and buffed that top tier that almost no one takes."

So, I think I'll keep making the easy predictions.

[katz]

So, I think I'll keep making the easy predictions.

you do that. i'll continue not taking YOUR word on if something is broken or not and wait for word from the devs who are actually doing the coding. hope ya don't mind, thx

also, healers friend is dropping from 2/4/6 to 1/2/3.

[Siftrant]

you do that. i'll continue not taking YOUR word on if something is broken or not and wait for word from the devs who are actually doing the coding. hope ya don't mind, thx

also, healers friend is dropping from 2/4/6 to 1/2/3.

Has it been dropped? Was there a statement as to "when" it would? Yeah, that is what I thought. The negative is in place -- the positive, "soon (tm)".

[B0ltdrag0n]

Has it been dropped? Was there a statement as to "when" it would? Yeah, that is what I thought. The negative is in place -- the positive, "soon (tm)".

Reading the release notes might solve your issue.



(also Necro'd)

[Siftrant]

Reading the release notes might solve your issue.



(also Necro'd)

Certainly, because those have never been "wrong" before... right?

Just came back to post what porq did: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=388028

LOL

[porq]

Reading the release notes might solve your issue.



(also Necro'd)



Wraith_Sarevok tested it on lamannia, and it is still the same borked thing as on live.

2/4/6 cost and the same broken multiplicative bonus to healing instead of adding to the base.

Thread here (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=388041), nearish the bottom of the first post

[GrampaBill]

Wraith_Sarevok tested it on lamannia, and it is still the same borked thing as on live.


http://origin.pbase.com/t1/36/6836/4/92427725.yIIsAvP2.jpg

[Krelar]

Wraith_Sarevok tested it on lamannia, and it is still the same borked thing as on live.

2/4/6 cost and the same broken multiplicative bonus to healing instead of adding to the base.

Thread here (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=388041), nearish the bottom of the first post

Which was already addressed.


This was a quick one! It looks like the fixes to Healer's Friend didn't make it into the current build on Lamannia, but it's in a newer build currently being kicked around in-house. It's still good to go come U15. Thanks for the heads up!

[Siftrant]

Which was already addressed.

Yeah I put as much faith in that statement as I do any other similar statement on here. Somehow they not only borked its function but also managed to not change the enhancement cost? uh huh....

[katz]

Huh.

Is it not changed to 1/2/3 cost and 10/20/30% benefit on live?


heal amp is currently borked. seemingly only for WF. was tested on live by Xcaltar (Noopleh) and Ziind (Ziindarax). by borked i mean it really is truly broken.... not some secretly WAI thing blah blah. Xcaltar was noticing that removing a heal amp TOD ring was giving him MORE amp, and putting it back on was taking it away.

i already knew about this issue... i saw the two of them discussing it in channel with each other.


its not the only thing that's been borked this update :rolleyes:

[Cauthey]

heal amp is currently borked. seemingly only for WF. was tested on live by Xcaltar (Noopleh) and Ziind (Ziindarax). by borked i mean it really is truly broken.... not some secretly WAI thing blah blah. Xcaltar was noticing that removing a heal amp TOD ring was giving him MORE amp, and putting it back on was taking it away.

i already knew about this issue... i saw the two of them discussing it in channel with each other.


its not the only thing that's been borked this update :rolleyes:

I am very busy personally right now. And then when I try to find some time to come and play DDO to unwind, I am slapped in the face, repeatedly, with problems. This is so terribly frustrating, and I cannot put it into words. The likely outcome is that I just won't bother to login anymore.

[KomradKillMachine]

I was with Xcaltar and Ziind testing it.
Whenever he re-equip ToD ring with 20% Hamp, while keeping his Gloves and Fleshmaker docent on, it would give him heal numbers for 181, instead of the usual 590+extra

I on the other hand was wearing DT docent with 10%/20%/etc Hamp and 30% gloves.
Re-equipping all my gear didnt my break my amp. Regular heals 572+ extra
When I went and put my ToD +Hamp ring on and off it did.
Same issue 180+ Heal. Yup, definitely ToD ring breaking the amp, funny though the Heal number is still Bright Green, indicating that we are at positive healing amp. Hehe, nice fix Devs!

Note: all of us have HF tree maxed out.

Workaround: Re-equip all Hamp gear---->relog and/or restart client. Never swap ToD ring again! Or enjoy relogging :>

[Ziindarax]

I was with Xcaltar and Ziind testing it.
Whenever he re-equip ToD ring with 20% Hamp, while keeping his Gloves and Fleshmaker docent on, it would give him heal numbers for 181, instead of the usual 590+extra

I on the other hand was wearing DT docent with 10%/20%/etc Hamp and 30% gloves.
Re-equipping all my gear didnt my break my amp. Regular heals 572+ extra
When I went and put my ToD +Hamp ring on and off it did.
Same issue 180+ Heal. Yup, definitely ToD ring breaking the amp, funny though the Heal number is still Bright Green, indicating that we are at positive healing amp. Hehe, nice fix Devs!

Note: all of us have HF tree maxed out.

Workaround: Re-equip all Hamp gear---->relog and/or restart client. Never swap ToD ring again! Or enjoy relogging :>

Actually, I only have Healer's friend 2 (haven't reset my enhancements), but it's still a major upgrade from what I was getting (278, now 320+).

[karl_k0ch]

Angelic Presence from Exalted Angel is producing a similar effect, by the way.