"Actions-Per-Minute" and DDO Melees

[Taimasan]

Reading over a starcraft thread from cracked it got me thinking. Playing as a monk among other melee classes I have found that the faster I pump out commands, the better I do. Including constantly moving. I was wondering if there was anyway someone could make a video to a certain epic quest of epic elite..have to find one with almost nonstop combat...dunno.

But I was thinking that the higher someone's actions peer minute/seconds = moar dips. And was wondering how the melee community felt about this hypothesis.

[sirgog]

I find a higher APM playstyle has little impact on the damage I do on a melee (Monks/Paladins are exceptions) but drastically decreases the damage I take.

Constantly turning around your target to wreck their spellcasts, moving to flank mobs, etc.

The DPS increase exists but doesn't seem to be as high as the survivability increase (again, Pally/Monk exceptions)

[Syllph]

wanna talk about apm ask this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbpCLqryN-Q

[Taimasan]

wanna talk about apm ask this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbpCLqryN-Q

Yea, thats the vid that got me thinking, I saw it years ago and was like. WOW! Now i see it and im like....is he playing my monk??? ;)
I <3 my tab key.

[scoobmx]

It lowers your dps if you're 2-weapon fighting. You have a faster attack speed just standing there swinging. 2-handed fighting is a different story if you want to 'twitch' but the APM required there is pretty low. I can't see a 2HF melee needing more than 120 APM, just because so many actions in DDO slow you down with animations. The exception I can think of besides twitching is attack chain / action boost / social skill canceling using combat feats, which can get you a free attack in an otherwise cooldown period.

[Arlathen]

Just as important as well is not hitting hotkey shortcuts that will delay your on-screen actions - as an example for a Grandmaster of Flowers, don't hit Lilly Petal or Orchid Blossom when there are on Cooldown or you wreck your onscreen chain and stand there like a noob for 2s.

I know, I do it too often for my liking :)

I'm planning a high splash Monk/Acrobat Qstaff user with mass Cleaves, after just completing a Monk TWF Lsword WSS build with Cleaves and major amounts of Ki strikes. It will be an intense combat experince I'm hoping :)

My only real problem is lack of shortcuts keys in range of my left hand for the variety of attacks I can use. I can reasonably keep 6-8 short-term ki strikes / cleaves on cooldown if I play my attack sequence correctly. Alot more if I throw Social skills, Boosts, Item Clickies and Healing into the mix.

[Syllph]

Yea, thats the vid that got me thinking, I saw it years ago and was like. WOW! Now i see it and im like....is he playing my monk??? ;)
I <3 my tab key.

this is actually the video that made me quit Starcraft 2. I realized I would never really amount to much in that game after watching some of the best out there. I just can't move like that.

[Duke-H-]

this is actually the video that made me quit Starcraft 2. I realized I would never really amount to much in that game after watching some of the best out there. I just can't move like that.

You really do not need very high apm to play high level starcraft 2. Starcraft 1/BW had higher demands on your apm since the macro mechanics were not as refined.
Especially late game, a ton of the actions that was needed in BW are automated in starcraft 2.

If you can manage 60-100 you are set, the harder challenge is memorizing builds/timings and actually putting those apm to any use.

I can do, say, 250 apm, but that wont do me any better then 90. Because most of it will be of no use since i am not skilled enough to utilize the clicks in an effective way.


Regarding DDO, Sirgog already said it. Damage mitigation by movement.
It is also a factor for classes using cleave abilities, such as anyone with Legendary Dreadnought. Maximizing the amount of mobs hit with the cleaves (some of them which have different arcs) requires careful positioning.

[Shade]

Reading over a starcraft thread from cracked it got me thinking. Playing as a monk among other melee classes I have found that the faster I pump out commands, the better I do. Including constantly moving. I was wondering if there was anyway someone could make a video to a certain epic quest of epic elite..have to find one with almost nonstop combat...dunno.

But I was thinking that the higher someone's actions peer minute/seconds = moar dips. And was wondering how the melee community felt about this hypothesis.

Yea with the new destinies adding so many buttons to melee.. APM is more important then ever for DPS. Theres not a millisecond im not hitting a different hotkey to optimize my dps.

I could do a video to demonstrate, but eh lately recording causes some severe lag, which limits my performance to demonstrate well. You can get a glipse of it in my new devils asasult vid.. Tho really thats an old unoptimized layout for my hotkeys, so doestn represent what i can do now.

Basicly my rotation is fairly complex due to the combo procs of dreadnaught + fury combo i often use.. It's;
A) adrenaline
b) Mom swing or lay waste depending on various factors
C) Lay waste if didnt use
D) cleave
E) Greatcleave
F) mom swing if reset, if not, supreme cleave
H) lay waste if reset, or cleave, or mom swing, depends what proc'd
--- all the while mixing in adrenaline, insults, uncanny dodge, double frenzy, action boosts, trip, stun, etc, etc.

I have some advanced macros set up that does some of this automatically. It's so many keys that doing it all manually, at a high rate of effectiveness just isnt possible.

Really skill is the number one factor in melee damage output now, especially on two handed dps-tactic builds like mine.

Theres litteraly near zero auto attack use in my current playstyle. The dps i can put out is insane, and I almost dont want to show a vid because it will just cause contraversy lol. It's gone up an incredible amount from U13..

[Kmnh]

Depends. If you are going deep with cleave, positioning and timing is very important - to the point where having a many-buttons mouse is almost required to use everything. It's not starcraft-like 300 actions per minute insanity, it's more like playing a fighting game - Use the right attack from the right position, cancel the animation or combo into another one.

Rogues require a lot less clicks, but even more positioning and timing - the twf attack animation is a lot slower if you are moving, taking a hit breaks sneak mode and you are only really abusing assassinate if you manage to land it on two mobs per use.

Monks are usually cycling their stuns and building up for big attacks, so they are apm-intensive all the way from the early game.

No idea about rangers. The shiradi clickies add a lot of options to any kind of ranged attacker, but it doesn't seem to be APM-heavy.

Doing all-melee epic elite runs is like playing those beat'em'up games from the early 90's, except with more people :) I love it.