Strange healing spellpower problem

[scoobmx]

I tested on my fvs today some healing spells with a friend of mine. The stats:

Me: Level 23 (20 FVS), Life Magic 4, Prayer of Life 2, Scroll Mastery 4, Healer's Friend 1 (supposedly giving half of stated), Epic Gloves of the Claw (30% HA), Incredible Potential Ring (20% HA)

Friend: Level 13 Cleric + 2 Monk + 1 Artificer, Life Magic 2, Prayer of Life 2, Scroll Mastery 1, 1 Paladin Past Life (5%)

Tested using Heal spell and Heal scrolls. Numbers (no crits are counted):

Me healing him:
Devotion 102 + Superior Healing Lore + Implement 15 offhand:
Heal Scroll: 341
Heal Spell: 300
Add Potency 48 mainhand:
Heal Spell: 311
Conclusion: potency somehow stacks with devotion, heal scroll somehow doing better than spell

Me healing myself:
Devotion 102 + Superior Healing Lore + Implement 15 offhand:
Heal Scroll: 291
Heal Spell: 256
Add Potency 48 mainhand:
Heal Spell: 266
Conclusion: known - healing amp is borked on warforged

Him healing me:
Potency 56 Dragontouched outfit:
Heal Scroll: 199
Heal Spell: 199

Him healing himself:
Potency 56 Dragontouched outfit:
Heal Scroll: 233
Heal Spell: 233

Conclusion: confirmed Healer's Friend gives half benefit, found potency stacking with devotion, found that heal scroll somehow works better than heal spell once both enhancement lines are maxed

[nebogloee]

Didn't they nerf the heal and mass heal spells to 50%? If they did, it looks like scrolls were unaffected.

[goodspeed]

Well scrolls don't really go off of caster ability that I know of except for knowledge like an arti or wand scroll mastery so basically working with a fixed base amount. Where as the spell was changed every which way, from the ability to stack it using the main element (forget the name) as well as the extra 75% from superior ardor. As well as it seems the spell being about half given what is stacked.

And now it seems even less so on warforged. And ive read that soon to be the repair line will suffer the same fate.

Sooo not a good time to be a robot. I know I was considering switching my arti to one when the racial pres came about but now not to sure. It's weird if their was one thing I figured would be upped it would of been heals. As it is most people I see can't stand to heal in most raids, I couldn't even bring myself to make one even for the guaranteed spot in a raid. Seems like even speced a druid isn't that spectacular as even a secondary heal. I suppose the time of pure self sufficiency has come full circle.

[DeafeningWhisper]

Conclusion: confirmed Healer's Friend gives half benefit, found potency stacking with devotion, found that heal scroll somehow works better than heal spell once both enhancement lines are maxed

Healer friend is bugged, heal/heal,mass is WAI, scroll healing is a bug and potency stacking with devotion is also a bug.

[jwdaniels]

Healer friend is bugged, heal/heal,mass is WAI, scroll healing is a bug and potency stacking with devotion is also a bug.

I thought that potency and devotion were supposed to stack in the new system. Was I mistaken?

[Missing_Minds]

I thought that potency and devotion were supposed to stack in the new system. Was I mistaken?

I thought it was "Particular" and Universal were supposed to stack. Potency was a "Particular" like "Devotion".

[DeafeningWhisper]

I thought that potency and devotion were supposed to stack in the new system. Was I mistaken?

Higher of potency or whatever other source of specific spell power.

[jwdaniels]

Higher of potency or whatever other source of specific spell power.

I thought potency was universal.

EDIT: According to the list here: http://ddowiki.com/page/Spell_Power potency provides a universal spell power increase. Doesn't that universal increase to spell power stack with the specific typed spell power increase as well, or am I way off?

[scoobmx]

I thought it was "Particular" and Universal were supposed to stack. Potency was a "Particular" like "Devotion".

I thought universal doesn't stack with particular, and it just uses the higher of...

In either case it's a testament to how confusing everything is with the bugs... heal amp bugged, scrolls bugged, potency bugged, how are you supposed to judge whether something is effective or balanced with all the bugs? Pretty much anything and everything related to healing is bugged...

[Missing_Minds]

I thought potency was universal.

EDIT: According to ddowiki potency is universal:
"Note: Efficacy and Potency items work as "Universal" spell damage amplification and will work on spells with unusual damage types. However, Efficacy comes in the form of a duration limited buff, while Potency lasts as long as the item is worn. Unlike other temporal spell boost effects, Efficacy has no advantage over Potency at the same spell level and magnitude."

http://ddowiki.com/page/Efficacy_(history)

edit: I got my names wrong. Read post #14 for the correct answer.

That is pre U14 terminology.

Potency effects all spells, just like Devotion effects cure/heal spells.
However, only the greater one of the two will take effect.

There is a new type now called Universal. Normally you'll see it on staves. This Universal should stack, and does apply to all spell like Potency.

Normally on staves post U14, you'll see something like.... Devotion 102, Glaciation 102, Universal 12. Note that is also probalby a ml 21+ staff.

[jwdaniels]

Wow - you learn something new every day...

[jwdaniels]

There is a new type now called Universal. Normally you'll see it on staves. This Universal should stack, and does apply to all spell like Potency.

The Wrath of Sora Kell set bonus from the Lordsmarch set now provides a +40 equipment bonus to Universal Spell Power. It used to be potency. Is this Universal Spell Power like potency 40, or is it Universal Spell Power of the type that now stacks with everything else?

[Missing_Minds]

The Wrath of Sora Kell set bonus from the Lordsmarch set now provides a +40 equipment bonus to Universal Spell Power. It used to be potency. Is this Universal Spell Power like potency 40, or is it Universal Spell Power of the type that now stacks with everything else?

I don't know with Sora Kell. The thing is, per description it was never called potency so I can't say. It is one of those odd amplifiers that players have never been told flat out what it was behind the scenes. I also have a hard time trusting descriptions until players do testing to back up what it says. Esp when changes happen to an item/systems.

The best I can tell you is to try a potency 40 or so with and without the set.
Try a devotion or something else you can cast of 40 with or without the set. See if they stack.

Luckily... those values should be craftable so easy to test.

If they do... I can see heal bots trying to rig in the set to their gear to get more healing with a devo 100+ item.

if you don't have a set unlocked... I might still have one unlocked and can try it out also. PM me if you don't and I'll try to test it this weekend.

edit: Lets face it, if it doesn't stack, that bonus is VERY LACKING considering the ML of the gear.

[THOTHdha]

That is pre U14 terminology.

Potency effects all spells, just like Devotion effects cure/heal spells.
However, only the greater one of the two will take effect.

There is a new type now called Universal. Normally you'll see it on staves. This Universal should stack, and does apply to all spell like Potency.

Normally on staves post U14, you'll see something like.... Devotion 102, Glaciation 102, Universal 12. Note that is also probalby a ml 21+ staff.

This is way, way off. On a staff like you described the Universal bonus would be 68. It is always 2/3 the other two. And Universal is the new name for the bonus that Potency gives. The +12 bonus that a staff like this might give would be an Implement bonus, which is usually listed before any of the others. Weapons that boost spell power also give an Implement bonus, which does stack with Universal and specific Spell Powers, equal to 3 times the weapons enchantment value, which would make the staff you described a +4 Thaumaturge staff.

The reiterate, Universal stacking with a specific Spell Power is not intended to happen, in any way.

EDIT: And just to be complete, there is a single non-weapon that gives an Implement bonus also. The Holy Symbol of Lolth.

[Brennie]

(...)
Conclusion: confirmed Healer's Friend gives half benefit, found potency stacking with devotion, found that heal scroll somehow works better than heal spell once both enhancement lines are maxed

Possible reasons:

Healers Friend is bugged, and is known to devs.



Your potency item might have a higher implement bonus? If potency 48 was stacking you should see an increase of either 72 (For full spellpower increase) or 36 (For half spellpower increase). An increase of 11 looks like it could be the difference of +5 implement bonus (At half spellpower, +5 more implement bonus would give 7.5 spellpower, for a total of +11.25 more healing). Now, you say that you have a +15 implement bonus in the offhand - it possible that your implement bonus is not applying correctly from your offhand, or that implement bonuses from main and offhand are stacking, or some other weird interaction


Your scroll is probably being affected by Spellpower, as i believe is a known issue (maybe? Haven't heard an official response). HOWEVER it is probably ALSO being affected by wand and scroll mastery, giving it a higher total boost than your heal spell. I'm guessing your friend doesn't have wand and scroll mastery.


EDIT: Oops, I see your friend does have "Scroll mastery 1" (Does that mean wand and scroll mastery, or just the artificer scroll thingy?)

[Missing_Minds]

This is way, way off. On a staff like you described the Universal bonus would be 68. It is always 2/3 the other two. And Universal is the new name for the bonus that Potency gives. The +12 bonus that a staff like this might give would be an Implement bonus, which is usually listed before any of the others. Weapons that boost spell power also give an Implement bonus, which does stack with Universal and specific Spell Powers, equal to 3 times the weapons enchantment value, which would make the staff you described a +4 Thaumaturge staff.

The reiterate, Universal stacking with a specific Spell Power is not intended to happen, in any way.

EDIT: And just to be complete, there is a single non-weapon that gives an Implement bonus also. The Holy Symbol of Lolth.

Doh, that is what I was remembering and got my names wrong. Thanks for that correction.

[jwdaniels]

So if universal bonus (from potency) doesn't stack with bonuses to specific spell types (which would be consistent with the way it used to work) then that makes potency somewhat useless - specific bonuses for whatever type of spell you are after seem to be dropping like hotcakes and the potency value is always considerably less than the specific value. Yes, I realize that it will apply to all spells that aren't covered by something better, but with most casters focusing on one or two spell types (I think divines have it hardest - they need light, healing and untyped) it makes potency on an item that also has devotion and force (for example) pretty useless.

I agree on Sora Kell - if that +40 doesn't stack with everything it's pretty pointless.

[Missing_Minds]

it makes potency on an item that also has devotion and force (for example) pretty useless.

Not quite. I'll assume divine caster in that case. Devotion and Force will allow it to effect healing and non typed stuff like BB and commet fall. Where the potency now comes in handy is with your light, necro (inflict, implosion, destruction, etc.), good, etc. So while before you had all in wonders (that developers hated), you can now spec up in the fields you want while still getting a buff to everything else.

While it IS a nerf to the lower end spells, lvl 6 on average (which means bards, artis, rangers, paladins, etc. really feel burned), 7 at the higher levels, it buffs lvls 8 and 9. Is it a better system? I don't know, but it is probably something devs are more happy with.