5th life blues...

[350zguy]

So I've TRed my monk 2x already, and I need to do it one more time, to get back to monk.

I've TRed my PM 2x already, and I'm not planning on doing it again.

However, It's starting to feel like a grind...

I leveled 7 characters to 70+ in WOW, and I never really felt like it was a "grind" even if a lot of my leveling was more "Grind" than DDO is.

I'm trying to figure out why DDO feels more like a grind than other games that are bashed on for being a grind? I mean EQ was a GRIND! That was just brain dead, non-stop sit in one place SolB for days on end, grind grind grind grind.

This is a Grind in the fact that you need so much XP, that you're forced to run the same quest 5, or even 12 times in a row. Well you're not FORCED, but it just doesn't make sense to run 2 zones away and then 2 zones back to "mix it up".

Kill wiz king, kill optional, recall, recall, go back out Kill wiz king, recall recall, kill wiz king, recall recall. Move to next tomb, kill that mummy, drop quest reset, kill that mummy, drop quest reset, kill that mummy.

My first True res, it was fun to do it all over, and have better gear @ level, and some play time under my belt. We ran elites non-stop, once each, all the way to 16th. Now after the 5th time thru all the quests, some of them 50 or more times, it's almost silly.

The challenges add some nice variety, the outdoor kill quests add some variety, but most of all, when you've run the quest 30 or more times on a single character between all your lives, and you get nothing gear wise for it, you have every trap memorized, you zerg it down, time and time and time and time and time again.

How can I beat the 5th life blues???? I want to get 20 and start working on my EDs!

There are only what? 5 15th level quests... And the XP required at 2nd life is high enough, that you just hit the 14s, the 13s the 12s over and over, trying to "SLOG" thru the level.

[Maxallu]

Sounds like you don't enjoy TR'ing. You don't have to TR if you don't want to.

But it a free country so I suppose you could always TR a bunch and then complain about it on the forums.

[350zguy]

Sounds like you don't enjoy TR'ing. You don't have to TR if you don't want to.

But it a free country so I suppose you could always TR a bunch and then complain about it on the forums.

Oh I wasn't tired of it when I started, I'm tired of it, 1/2 thru the process...

I was looking forward to it, however my expectations, did not line up with reality. :D One of my favorite characters to play was my monk, and all the epic gear I have is locked to this toon, who I want to get back to 20, so I can get some EDs on him. However, I didn't know I was going to burn out before making it to 20.

I love how helpful people are on the interwebs.

:D

[danotmano1998]

I'd highly recommend you take a TR break then.

I try to keep a stable of characters in multiple levels of development for this reason.
You just get burned out on grinding xp when the destination is the only thing in sight.
I hear ya man.

Running with a static group, doing some RP stuff now and then, pugging, running with your friends or guildies, naked raid nights... These are all things that help you keep in perspective, that the game is supposed to be fun and that is why you're playing it.

[Nouda_EU]

Hah aleast you can do your 5th life. Im stuck on korthos on my 4th for 24 hours now still now help :(

[HunterjWizzard]

I'm with you, 350zguy. Though I havem't gotten as far as TRing yet I have several chars stuck at the 15/16 mark and am bored to tears because there is so little at-level content. I own every single quest pack now but I haven't played on my paladin in months because I can't find anything interesting for him to do!

I hope they finish working the bugs out of the expansion soon so they can start working on some new mid-to-high level content!

[jwdaniels]

Keep a character at epic levels and grind for epic items when you get tired of the exp grind on a TR. After a while, the epic grind gets old so you can go back to the exp grind for variety. Mix in a little crafting grind and you have enough variety that you will never get bored...

Also, it might help if you switched up the classes on your TR - don't grind the same class with the same items and the same build three lives in a row. If you grind, say, monk-monk-monk all you'll be thinking about is how much more exp it's taking you to advance your monk now than it used to.

[350zguy]

Keep a character at epic levels and grind for epic items when you get tired of the exp grind on a TR. After a while, the epic grind gets old so you can go back to the exp grind for variety. Mix in a little crafting grind and you have enough variety that you will never get bored...

Also, it might help if you switched up the classes on your TR - don't grind the same class with the same items and the same build three lives in a row. If you grind, say, monk-monk-monk all you'll be thinking about is how much more exp it's taking you to advance your monk now than it used to.

I think I will work on some crafting... I'm retooling my epic level cleric right now. That does seem to be more fun than trying to level. I just wanted to try out the new Monk Epic Destinies tree on my monk, so I hit it hard for 5 days, just level level level. Got frazzled.

I was Monk/Monk/Fighter, then I want to go back to Monk. I think I'll use the free-respec to change him out to a dual wielder and try that. Just so the play style changes.

[mwgarn]

You don't have to gain xp like that, yes it is faster but... Try doing some slayers, try doing ever quest on elite for bb and favor, try running a quest you havant before, try soloing a quest you havant before. Yes it can be a bit slower to level this way but it really is a lot more fun.

And if your really really not liking it right now go take a break, me I'm working on a new toon in skyrim just finished the collage quest and can't wait to go join the dark brotherhood which I skipped over with my first two toons, already thinking about running my PM up another level, halfway to lvl 23 now but will hold off playing a bit longer, got dragons to kill!

[zeonardo]

One expensive approach:

Warforged sorc 15
5 whatever class you want past life for

first 15 levels as sorc
5 last levels as past life class

+5 reincarnate to get rid of 5 sorc levels for the one you want, then true reincarnate. (Separate cooldowns, so you can do one right after the other)

You will end up 10/10 with sorc and the other class.
In a 10/10 split, the first class in alphabetical order will prevail:

1 Artificer
2 Barbarian
3 Bard
4 Cleric
5 Druid
6 Favored Soul
7 Fighter
8 Monk
9 Paladin
10 Ranger
11 Rogue
12 Sorcerer
13 Wizard

15 sorc is easier to solo, zerging and nuking stuff.
Makes the grind a little more easy.

You may find wizard better... it's up to you.

Haven't tried this myself, but it has a strong logic.

[illusion28]

Maybe you feel it's grinding because you're probably not taking the time to actually have fun with the toon, instead just gain xp and lvl and TRing and repeat and repeat.

I have 4 TR toons that still need more TRing in order to get to the point i want them in, and I like to take my time with each, don't care if it takes me forever, TR all you want but don't forget it's a game, and you're supposed to have fun.

If you are disliking it, stop trying to lvl up and maybe do something different, slayers, help others do favors in low leve quests, help your newbies in your guild... then when you feel comfortable enough, resume the TR road but never forget, everything you do in the game, is for enjoyment, to have fun, not to start a rage rant or something like that.

[Thrudh]

So I've TRed my monk 2x already, and I need to do it one more time, to get back to monk.

I've TRed my PM 2x already, and I'm not planning on doing it again.

However, It's starting to feel like a grind...

I leveled 7 characters to 70+ in WOW, and I never really felt like it was a "grind" even if a lot of my leveling was more "Grind" than DDO is.

I'm trying to figure out why DDO feels more like a grind than other games that are bashed on for being a grind? I mean EQ was a GRIND! That was just brain dead, non-stop sit in one place SolB for days on end, grind grind grind grind.

This is a Grind in the fact that you need so much XP, that you're forced to run the same quest 5, or even 12 times in a row. Well you're not FORCED, but it just doesn't make sense to run 2 zones away and then 2 zones back to "mix it up".

Kill wiz king, kill optional, recall, recall, go back out Kill wiz king, recall recall, kill wiz king, recall recall. Move to next tomb, kill that mummy, drop quest reset, kill that mummy, drop quest reset, kill that mummy.

My first True res, it was fun to do it all over, and have better gear @ level, and some play time under my belt. We ran elites non-stop, once each, all the way to 16th. Now after the 5th time thru all the quests, some of them 50 or more times, it's almost silly.

The challenges add some nice variety, the outdoor kill quests add some variety, but most of all, when you've run the quest 30 or more times on a single character between all your lives, and you get nothing gear wise for it, you have every trap memorized, you zerg it down, time and time and time and time and time again.

How can I beat the 5th life blues???? I want to get 20 and start working on my EDs!

There are only what? 5 15th level quests... And the XP required at 2nd life is high enough, that you just hit the 14s, the 13s the 12s over and over, trying to "SLOG" thru the level.

(1) You don't have to TR... it offers very marginal benefits past the first 2-3 TRs.
(2) You do NOT have to grind out quests. I'll repeat a few of the really good exp quests, but never more than 2-3 runs, and as soon as it seems boring, I'm out of there.

If it's not fun, don't do it.

[Lehmu]

When the TR grind seems to be too much, I try to either do something else or take my mind off it.

For example, I like to try and solo something that should be very difficult, like the optional boss fights in a couple quests on elite when I'm still getting full xp. Hezrou in the deep in into the deep, Sinvala in mired in kobolds, Tempest Spine, ect. You'd be surprised how fun some challenge is when you're done grinding a quest for the 13246532th time.

If that isn't an option, you can always try to take your mind off the grind.

First of all, play some good music. Pick a suitable theme for a quest you're running. Personally, I play soundtracks from games and movies that make me feel like something awesome is about to happen/is happening right now.

Find a TR buddy. Someone who you can challenge yourself against and who pushes you to your limits while grinding.

Pick up a pug or two. You'll either pick up someone you'll genuinely like to run with, or hilarity ensues. Don't do this if you tend to rage at people who cost you 10%, then it's just a recipe for disaster.

And if nothing else works, just play on some other character.

[Thrudh]

I'm with you, 350zguy. Though I havem't gotten as far as TRing yet I have several chars stuck at the 15/16 mark and am bored to tears because there is so little at-level content. I own every single quest pack now but I haven't played on my paladin in months because I can't find anything interesting for him to do!

How is that possible? First life characters advance very quickly, and if you own every pack, there's a ton of stuff to do at levels 15-16.

[Thrudh]

One expensive approach:

Warforged sorc 15
5 whatever class you want past life for

first 15 levels as sorc
5 last levels as past life class

+5 reincarnate to get rid of 5 sorc levels for the one you want, then true reincarnate. (Separate cooldowns, so you can do one right after the other)

You will end up 10/10 with sorc and the other class.
In a 10/10 split, the first class in alphabetical order will prevail:

1 Artificer
2 Barbarian
3 Bard
4 Cleric
5 Druid
6 Favored Soul
7 Fighter
8 Monk
9 Paladin
10 Ranger
11 Rogue
12 Sorcerer
13 Wizard

15 sorc is easier to solo, zerging and nuking stuff.
Makes the grind a little more easy.

You may find wizard better... it's up to you.

Haven't tried this myself, but it has a strong logic.

FYI, it's alphabetical for all the original classes... New classes got added on to the end of the list in the order they were released I believe...

So it's

1 Barbarian
2 Bard
3 Cleric
4 Fighter
5 Paladin
6 Ranger
7 Rogue
8 Sorcerer
9 Wizard
10 Monk
11 Favored Soul
12 Artificer
13 Druid

[zeonardo]

FYI, it's alphabetical for all the original classes... New classes got added on to the end of the list in the order they were released I believe...

So it's

1 Barbarian
2 Bard
3 Cleric
4 Fighter
5 Paladin
6 Ranger
7 Rogue
8 Sorcerer
9 Wizard
10 Monk
11 Favored Soul
12 Artificer
13 Druid

Thanks for the info!!
I would never ever know that!!

Good thing I didn't try it myself.
I would never be completionist because I would never play a barb or an arti.
And now I have a stronger reason.

[Chilldude]

So I've TRed my monk 2x already, and I need to do it one more time, to get back to monk.

I've TRed my PM 2x already, and I'm not planning on doing it again.

However, It's starting to feel like a grind...

I leveled 7 characters to 70+ in WOW, and I never really felt like it was a "grind" even if a lot of my leveling was more "Grind" than DDO is.

Amen, brother!

Leveling your 3rd life and beyond is the equivalent of leveling 2 first life characters to 20. Unless you have nothing but time, most people stop at that point.

I blame it on half baked ideas. The theory behind TR is actually kind of cool, and it should be a fun and exciting process. However, they mucked it up as a form of progression! Then piled on tons of XP requirements to bog that progression down. Want more DCs, spell pen, HP, SP, healing amp? You're going to have to grind for it! Except, the XP is so steep that you can't play the game in any fashion even remotely resembling how it was intended to be played if you really want to progress.

The other day me and a couple friends ran Blockade Buster 10 times in a row. Each run only took like 2-3 minutes. Halfway through I was thinking to myself, "What the h... am I doing? Farmville is more entertaining than this! Oh well, it is really quick XP, I guess I'll just keep on truckin'!"

In WoW people couldn't get more powerful than you simply by repetitive grinding. All the power came from raids. Raids that were extremely difficult and took a static raid team several weeks of practice on each boss fight. So the end result was sort of the same, to progress took grinding, except instead of repetitive easy XP zerg grinding, it was more of having a raid boss repetitively grind your face into the floor.

[Maxallu]

I'm with you, 350zguy. Though I havem't gotten as far as TRing yet I have several chars stuck at the 15/16 mark and am bored to tears because there is so little at-level content. I own every single quest pack now but I haven't played on my paladin in months because I can't find anything interesting for him to do!

I hope they finish working the bugs out of the expansion soon so they can start working on some new mid-to-high level content!

This is untrue and ridiculous.

1st life toon, 1,900,000 something xp, laughably low amount. At level 15/16 you can still be runnign 13 - 16 no problem. Included in those levels are:

GH side quests (6)
TBF
Foundation
Cry for help
MOM
Feast
cabal

others of note at 13
mired in kobolds
Undermine
siegebreaker

lvl 14 (BIG XP in these!)
TOR flagging quests
Crucible
POP
Madstone

TOR
Reaver raid

Necro IV still at 14!
GOP
Inferno
Fleshmakers
Vol

Level 15 is still good with:
Litany (enough xp in here for lvl 15 alone)

Madness chain
Missing
Sinister storage
fear factory
In the flesh

also:
acid witd
delirium

lvl 16 takes you off to the vale and the shroud flagging quests.

If that is not enough for you, head over to the reavers refuge and run the SOS chain.
There is big xp in
Enter the Kobold
Monestary
Prey

after all that you are capped, congrats. (for 1st lifers)


Yes, so little at level content. Come one man.

[luvirini]

Note that you can(*) levelup a TR2+ life without repeating anything. Just run everything in elite streak. Just the base XP with a normal amount of kills, getting the traps and secret doors, but not counting optionals is 3+ mil xp without the raids, if you have greater tome of learning. Explorers just running through all explorer areas once is 200k+ challenges once each for 400k+, and Add in the optionals from the quests 250k+ and the incidental awards so you are at 4 mil xp before raids(*).

This all without XP potions, just greater tome of learning and voice.

(*) or could as now you get a lot less xp from running the raids as you get overlevel penalty from the epic level chars in the party. So you may end up few hundred key xp short nowadays, though the few nonepic eveningstar quests and the eveningstar challenges help ofcourse.

I actually tested this before u14 and because I skipped a few annoying quests and having to run some of the high level quests and raids only on hard I ended up just under 150k xp short from the 4.38 mil without any repetition(Well, shroud was run twice) by using 3 of 3 hour +20% xp potions(one from the pre purchase pack and 2 won in lotteries). So had to spend about an hour more in epic time is money, gut I did get tokens for the next TR at the same time so..

[350zguy]

My first 3 lives were without Tomes, or pots, or anything really.

I did the whole, run everything on Epic once.

We petered out at about 16th level because it gets a bit brutal.

With this life, I've been trying to get easy wins. I've also been doing it solo, and that is a big "UGH" factor.

I guess that is part of the issue with the grind. In almost any other game, you get rewards for attempting something difficult. I don't mind spending 2 hours wiping out because I know I'm getting small gains each kill.

With the binary XP switch in quests, if you really want XP, and you're not focused on "having fun" you do what is easy, because if you spend 2 hours beating your face on a quest you just can't seem to win, it's just frustrating.

[DanteEnFuego]

Thanks for the info!!
I would never ever know that!!

Good thing I didn't try it myself.
I would never be completionist because I would never play a barb or an arti.
And now I have a stronger reason.

I just knocked out my Barb life like this. The sprint boost was a nice Zerg perk...go pure for Arti, or rogue splash for evasion...

[Thrudh]

The theory behind TR is actually kind of cool, and it should be a fun and exciting process. However, they mucked it up as a form of progression! Then piled on tons of XP requirements to bog that progression down. Want more DCs, spell pen, HP, SP, healing amp? You're going to have to grind for it! Except, the XP is so steep that you can't play the game in any fashion even remotely resembling how it was intended to be played if you really want to progress.

Umm.. yes you can... You can play it exactly how it was intended to be played... You TR, and you run each quest once or twice, get exp, level, run harder quests, etc. until you make cap.

People burn themselves out by rushing back to 20... When I TR, I play exactly the same as I played before... I enjoy the journey, I hardly farm anything, and I have fun leveling... Because I'm playing exactly how I played before.

Playing 10 hours straight and farming quests 10x each until your eyes bleed isn't likely to be fun for most people... So don't play like that.


The other day me and a couple friends ran Blockade Buster 10 times in a row. Each run only took like 2-3 minutes. Halfway through I was thinking to myself, "What the h... am I doing? Farmville is more entertaining than this! Oh well, it is really quick XP, I guess I'll just keep on truckin'!"

Then don't DO that.

[Kakashi67]

Umm.. yes you can... You can play it exactly how it was intended to be played... You TR, and you run each quest once or twice, get exp, level, run harder quests, etc. until you make cap.

People burn themselves out by rushing back to 20... When I TR, I play exactly the same as I played before... I enjoy the journey, I hardly farm anything, and I have fun leveling... Because I'm playing exactly how I played before.

Playing 10 hours straight and farming quests 10x each until your eyes bleed isn't likely to be fun for most people... So don't play like that.



Then don't DO that.

I'd rather farm quests I know and like, rather than try to get a completion in a quest that has a horrible mechanic.

[Isolani]

Level 15 is still good with:
Litany (enough xp in here for lvl 15 alone)


Some exaggeration here. On a TR2+, even with a 30% xp pot, and going in with full elite streak, you don't get more than about 60-65% of L15 before Litany is completely played out, inlcuding a casual run. But yeah, there is easily enough xp to get to cap on a TR2+, L16-20 still feels pretty grindy to me though. I just don't like that half the 4.3 million xp you need is crammed into the last 5 levels.

Since MotU, TRing doesn't have the value that it used to for a lot of builds in my opinion. Melees especially. 4.3 million xp for a fighter life for +1 to hit is laughable now when you look at the dps gains from epic destinies. Even 3 fighter lives for +3 to hit isn't that great in the new AC system. Barbarian PL is still nice, more hp never hurts. Monk PL is marginal, +1 damage is nice, but instead of grinding 4.3 million xp to get +1 damage you could get far, far more +damage from epic destinies in a tiny fraction of the time it takes to do a TR.

Casters still get some bang for their buck from 3 X sorc, 3 X wiz, 3 X FvS for more spell points, ALOT more spell penetration, and better evocation DCs.

Getting 36 pt builds is probably worth the effort if it's a character you intend to play a lot. Play a couple lives that will help your final life, and after that I would just grind epic destinies for much greater power increases. If you get bored in epic levels and need something different to do, then TR.

[wetheril]

I have to agree about keeping other characters at level 20, and be able to work on stuff other than the TR to alleviate that feeling of grind. That's why even though I run 5 toons, I only ever have 1 TR going at a time. It is fun to do the epic level content with guildies and friends when I just can't bring myself to work on my TR. If even that gets too much, it doesn't hurt to take a short break from the game.

[Thrudh]

I'd rather farm quests I know and like, rather than try to get a completion in a quest that has a horrible mechanic.

I was responding to this.


Except, the XP is so steep that you can't play the game in any fashion even remotely resembling how it was intended to be played if you really want to progress.

There is plenty of experience in the game to get to 18 or so by playing each quest once on normal as a first-life, playing each quest on hard as a second-life, and playing each quest on elite on a third+ life. 18-20 will take a few repeats.

But I cannot understand how Chilldude could say that playing each quest in the game once doesn't "remotely resemble how the game was intended to be played"

If you LIKE repeating the same quests over and over, then there's no problem. If you don't like repeating the same quests over and over, then do some of the other quests.

I don't understand threads like this..

"I get bored playing the same quest with the same character over and over and over"

"Umm, of course you do..."

"What should I do?"

"Do a different quest? Play a different character? Take a break from the game and play something else for a bit?"

This isn't hard.

[Thrudh]

I have to agree about keeping other characters at level 20, and be able to work on stuff other than the TR to alleviate that feeling of grind. That's why even though I run 5 toons, I only ever have 1 TR going at a time. It is fun to do the epic level content with guildies and friends when I just can't bring myself to work on my TR. If even that gets too much, it doesn't hurt to take a short break from the game.

This is good advice... I also have 5 main characters, with usually only one going through a TR at a time.

[grayham]

Mix it up a bit! The first explorer runs reward well, especially with tome of learning, xp potion and even a slayer boost. Yes, XP tails off after that, but a quick run around the Vale/Cannith manufactory is very good xp.

Failing that, do a challenge! Have you 3 starred Epic L25 Time is money? (extraplanar mining). This is the best XP in the game, hands down, considering it can be done at any level, just have a L20 in your party. After that do some of the other challenges.

The sane asylum is quick to pick up. Once you have memorised the direction to run and have a puzzle solver to hand then 5min runs on normal are easily attainable.

[Feithlin]

People burn themselves out by rushing back to 20... When I TR, I play exactly the same as I played before... I enjoy the journey, I hardly farm anything, and I have fun leveling... Because I'm playing exactly how I played before.

Playing 10 hours straight and farming quests 10x each until your eyes bleed isn't likely to be fun for most people... So don't play like that.


Exactly. If TRing wasn't enjoying, I wouldn't do it. I do every single quest I own, only repeating a few of them, and it never feels like a grind.

What the OP stated is: I redo 10 times the same few quests because it's more optimal and it feels like a grind. Well, it's pretty obvious that repeating the same thing 10 times -- that same thing 10 times on every life -- feels like a grind. What's really optimal is not to max xp/minute, but to max enjoyment / min of playtime.

[Kakashi67]

One expensive approach:

Warforged sorc 15
5 whatever class you want past life for

first 15 levels as sorc
5 last levels as past life class

+5 reincarnate to get rid of 5 sorc levels for the one you want, then true reincarnate. (Separate cooldowns, so you can do one right after the other)

You will end up 10/10 with sorc and the other class.
In a 10/10 split, the first class in alphabetical order will prevail:

1 Artificer
2 Barbarian
3 Bard
4 Cleric
5 Druid
6 Favored Soul
7 Fighter
8 Monk
9 Paladin
10 Ranger
11 Rogue
12 Sorcerer
13 Wizard

15 sorc is easier to solo, zerging and nuking stuff.
Makes the grind a little more easy.

You may find wizard better... it's up to you.

Haven't tried this myself, but it has a strong logic.

Go 14 sorc/1 rogue/5 past life. That way you don't have to worry about past life order.

I've done this...it loses some power in the 18-20 range, due to lack of sp (at least solo, and if you don't have torc/con op). Past caster lives help out a bit, too.

But the life can be done fairly quickly, but does take some gear to make the ride smoother.

[danotmano1998]

But I cannot understand how Chilldude could say that playing each quest in the game once doesn't "remotely resemble how the game was intended to be played"


No, you misread that one, Thrudh.

He means that farming "X" quest to exhaustion over and over isn't "remotely resembling how the game was intended to be played".

I'd have to agree with Chill on this to some degree. I don't find it much fun to farm quests to get the 1 million XP I need for one stinkin level either. IMO, if they were to make the XP progression more linear, it would be more fun and easier to spread out the quests over the entire level progression rather than level quickly to 17, then farm ad-nauseum to gain those last painfully slow 3 levels.

I enjoy playing end game, to me the journey to 20 on a TR3+ is one I like to get over with as quickly as possible so I can get back to the playstyle I prefer.

[Drekisen]

Multi-game many games....don't multi-toon one.........I have found that no matter how cool DDO is....and how "inferior" other games may be compared to it.......it still gets freekin boring and those other games become ten times more fun.

I take breaks from every game I play frequently.

I had 17 characters at one time here...gave that up when I saw the direction the game was going and dedicated myself to just one....best thing I ever did.

I have one more TR to go on my PM....and the only reason I am doing it at all is because of the XP Stone...otherwise I would have probably stopped at three.

Once I get to 25 again.....if I get bored I will simply play LoTRO or Shaiya for a while....I find the only way at all to make DDO fun again when I get to the "grind" mentality is to abstain for a good amount of time...generally not even good content will pull me back....in fact it took this major expansion with new levels to pull me from LoTRO otherwise I would still be on "leave" :D

[Raoull]

Umm.. yes you can... You can play it exactly how it was intended to be played... You TR, and you run each quest once or twice, get exp, level, run harder quests, etc. until you make cap.

People burn themselves out by rushing back to 20... When I TR, I play exactly the same as I played before... I enjoy the journey, I hardly farm anything, and I have fun leveling... Because I'm playing exactly how I played before.


This.

I'm running my first TR now (I've capped two other toons), and have gotten him to 18 without grinding anything. Pretty much, I only ran every quest once on Hard, although I repeated a few because the group was good, or things like Litany. I've run a number of quests I never ran before, and also bothered to do certain things just for a challenge (solo DQ2 on BB) or fun much like I did on first lives.

Up until 18, it just seemed fun, and never grindy. There were even a few quests that got skipped since I leveled out of them.

That said... it does seem like 18-20 won't play out quite the same way..... I've run all the challenges, the Cannith quests and the Path of Inspiration (for the first time) and one of Dreaming Dark and I'm rather shocked at how abyssmal the XP is. I'm only about half way to 19. I still have Amrath, the 2 new Eveningstar quests and 4/5ths of the Dreaming Dark.... That looks like it will get me only to 19 and a quarter or so.... and then I'll either do some earlier quests on elite (especially since earlier quests seem to be worth DOUBLE the base XP as lvl 18-19 quests.... ) or grind some challenges for any loot I decide I want (did already do that a bit to finish up my epic ring and belt....).

So.... up until lvl 18, I say just don't grind so hard. Level 18+ though... while it seems like it will only be a minor annoyance for a 2nd life, does seem like it could be an issue for lives 3+. They really need to up the base XP of lvl 18+ quests, especially since getting XP from Raiding is now harder than ever due to lvl 21+'s in the quests.

Vale quests are 6.5K-9K XP on norm. Cannith quests are 3.5K-4.5K. Sure... the Cannith ones are ranked medium and the Vale extra long..... but they really take about the same amount of time, discounting Coal Chamber. Actually.... maybe just the Cannith ones need revamping. Amrath quests look a bit better XP wise, and the IQ stuff did seem notably shorter (well, about the same, but it was my first runs which slows me down considerably).

18-20 is extra borked nowadays since many of the quests are very endgamy (how many epic hards are harder than Amrath elites? any?), yet endgame toons will destroy your XP.

Possible fixes:
-Rebalance XP on 18+ quests, mainly a Cannith pack problem (All could use to be looked at though).
-Change lvl 21+ so they don't affect XP in the same way as Heroic over-leveling
-Rebalance TR XP charts, so they need more XP at lower levels (where there are quests you can skip) and less at 18+. For some odd reason, Capping a 3+life takes over double the XP of a first life, yet to get to lvl 7 takes only 50% more.

[Persiflage]

The only good reason I can think of for >2nd life TR's having such an inflated XP requirement these days is so cynical I refuse to believe it. As it is, I really can't see why the XP requirement is so high; you can say "well don't TR then", but my understanding from the good folks on these very forums is that *without* a couple of past lives under your belt, spellcasters in particular have very little hope of ever being useful in Epic Elite content. Making it cost more than double the XP you need to level a new character up from scratch merely in order to gain a necessary increment in your spell pen or DC's seems... harsh.

What I'm hoping now is that someone'll chime in with "Nah, I've got a first-life Wizard/Sorc running Epic Elite content and his instakills land all the time!" :D

[Drekisen]

The only good reason I can think of for >2nd life TR's having such an inflated XP requirement these days is so cynical I refuse to believe it. As it is, I really can't see why the XP requirement is so high; you can say "well don't TR then", but my understanding from the good folks on these very forums is that *without* a couple of past lives under your belt, spellcasters in particular have very little hope of ever being useful in Epic Elite content. Making it cost more than double the XP you need to level a new character up from scratch merely in order to gain a necessary increment in your spell pen or DC's seems... harsh.

What I'm hoping now is that someone'll chime in with "Nah, I've got a first-life Wizard/Sorc running Epic Elite content and his instakills land all the time!" :D

Sorry but third life leveling is even easier than 2nd life for the fact that by that point you can make your own groups and do everything on Elite for the BB.....it goes extremely fast......if it's taking you longer quite simply your doing it wrong and/or are unwilling to lead your own parties.

Even without store XP potions it's fast. If you missed out on the greater tome of learning tho you may be in the mud river canoe :D

[Thrudh]

I enjoy playing end game, to me the journey to 20 on a TR3+ is one I like to get over with as quickly as possible so I can get back to the playstyle I prefer.

Then you probably shouldn't TR too often...

But if you plan it right, you don't have to farm that much even in the 17-20 range... The Cannith challenges give a ton of exp. The explorer areas first pass through give a lot too... I do each of the Vale quests 2-3x each (good to build up ingrediants anyway), and Enter the Kobold and Monestary 3-5x each. Other than that, you don't have to do that much farming.

[Persiflage]

Sorry but third life leveling is even easier than 2nd life for the fact that by that point you can make your own groups and do everything on Elite for the BB...

If it weren't for Shade's admonition I'd be inclined to point out that third life levelling is NOT easier than second life, on the grounds that it costs a lot more XP, but that's just maths and should therefore be discounted.

I will, however, point out that I can happily elite-streak a 1st-life toon and "do everything on Elite for the BB", solo, so I don't think I'm doing it terribly wrong. It takes more than twice as long to get that third life as it did to get the first, which was my point as I can't see the justification nowadays.

[Thrudh]

So.... up until lvl 18, I say just don't grind so hard. Level 18+ though... while it seems like it will only be a minor annoyance for a 2nd life, does seem like it could be an issue for lives 3+. They really need to up the base XP of lvl 18+ quests, especially since getting XP from Raiding is now harder than ever due to lvl 21+'s in the quests.

I agree with this... They should up the exp on the level 17-19 quests. And I agree that the raids are no longer a good source for exp while leveling because of the level 23-25 people.

[Thrudh]

It takes more than twice as long to get that third life as it did to get the first, which was my point as I can't see the justification nowadays.

You make a good point that maybe they should relook at the exp requirements for TRing, now that things have changed game-wide.

[Thrudh]

I should qualify all my remarks by saying I have the 50% greater tome of learning and I'm VIP so I have access to all the packs.

If neither of these are true for you, then discount my statements, Leveling a 2+ TR is probably very painful without those things.

[MartinusWyllt]

I do have times that it feels grindy on my 5th life...so I play at 20+ or a first life toon for a bit.

[gerardIII]

I try to keep a stable of characters in multiple levels of development for this reason.


This.

Try new stuff, flavor builds ...

[Drekisen]

If it weren't for Shade's admonition I'd be inclined to point out that third life levelling is NOT easier than second life, on the grounds that it costs a lot more XP, but that's just maths and should therefore be discounted.

I will, however, point out that I can happily elite-streak a 1st-life toon and "do everything on Elite for the BB", solo, so I don't think I'm doing it terribly wrong. It takes more than twice as long to get that third life as it did to get the first, which was my point as I can't see the justification nowadays.

Honestly what they really need to do is make the TR feats more beneficial to the classes....the WIZ ones are awesome and to me are totally worth doing all three lives no matter what...especially if you have done Epic ELITE.

The real problem is the TR system s*cks period......they should have never implemented it and we should be at epic level 30 cap by now. Beating the dead horse game is lame upon lame.......it's not so much TR'ing that bothers me.......it's doing the same thing each life.....that's why when I do TR I do almost all the quests and wait long in between TR's.

I won't complain about the XP requirement tho......the difference is night and day compared to what it was and I found it was very fast even the last few levels.....just keep an eye out for the right LFM's......no matter how well and fast you can solo, you usually aren't going to get thru ELITE faster alone than with a decent group red boxing and zerging thru them.

[danotmano1998]

Personally, I'd be happy as could be if they relaxed the "epic" requirement of having to be level 20 to get into an epic quest.

It's even harder now to run those level 18-19 quests for 5K xp when you KNOW that the epic quests are giving 30 thousand plus a whack.

Then they wouldn't even have to rebalance any xp. The content narrow that is 18-20 would be gone completely.

I find it annoying that the time you need the MOST xp, you have the least amount of choices and some of the WORST xp reward quests.

[gphysalis]

Personally, I'd be happy as could be if they relaxed the "epic" requirement of having to be level 20 to get into an epic quest.

It's even harder now to run those level 18-19 quests for 5K xp when you KNOW that the epic quests are giving 30 thousand plus a whack.

Then they wouldn't even have to rebalance any xp. The content narrow that is 18-20 would be gone completely.

I find it annoying that the time you need the MOST xp, you have the least amount of choices and some of the WORST xp reward quests.

I agree, Heroic content xp just doesn't compare to epic xp
comparing the 5k xp from some high level heroic content to the 55 thousand xp from an epic quest (on hard)
Heroic quests should give more xp, or lvl 19 characters should be able to run level 21 quests, just like a lvl 7 character can run a lvl 9 quest.

[Persiflage]

You make a good point that maybe they should relook at the exp requirements for TRing, now that things have changed game-wide.

Yeah, I think so. The focus has definitely changed to a world in which the grinding out of the raids has (mostly) become easier and the way to progress, particularly for spell-casters, is to get more past lives for spell pen and DC's so you can one day be useful in Epic Elite. The very way in which Epic Destinies work - whereby you're pretty much going to pick up all the levels in all the destinies - is begging for you to try out multiple character classes on the same toon in order to take advantage of all that work, particularly when you factor in that the Epic levels themselves are completely generic.

There's tons more content than there was when the TR system was introduced, and several more character classes. Given all the incentives to have another go-around on the same toon, why make it more expensive to TR than level a first-life character at all?

[Thrudh]

Personally, I'd be happy as could be if they relaxed the "epic" requirement of having to be level 20 to get into an epic quest.

It's even harder now to run those level 18-19 quests for 5K xp when you KNOW that the epic quests are giving 30 thousand plus a whack.

Then they wouldn't even have to rebalance any xp. The content narrow that is 18-20 would be gone completely.

I find it annoying that the time you need the MOST xp, you have the least amount of choices and some of the WORST xp reward quests.

Agreed 100%... I got my wizard to from 19-20 this last weekend, and it was annoying thinking of all those beautiful 30k epic quests just out of reach as I was getting 8k on the Dreaming Dark island.

[Llewndyn]

Oh I wasn't tired of it when I started, I'm tired of it, 1/2 thru the process...

I was looking forward to it, however my expectations, did not line up with reality. :D One of my favorite characters to play was my monk, and all the epic gear I have is locked to this toon, who I want to get back to 20, so I can get some EDs on him. However, I didn't know I was going to burn out before making it to 20.

I love how helpful people are on the interwebs.

:D

If you need real advice, don't come to the forums. This is a place to either make jokes and try to get a laugh (me) or be the butt of jokes and get laughed at. Very, VERY little constructive help exists on the forums. Everyone is too busy bragging about the smell of their own farts to bother doing anything other than belittling everyone who dares ask for help.

That being said, I too share the 5th life blues. I don't follow "guides". I don't plan things out. That isn't fun for me. So I played a bard my third life, and hated it, and couldn't wait to hit 20. I am in the same spot in life number 5 on my paladin, and I am 300k away. I want to get this over with so bad I can taste it, but even at high levels it seems every quest dinks and dunks for 8-10k a quest. Good luck getting into a PUG for elite Amrath and NOT having it be a huge waste of time, or any high level elite content for that matter. So at that point you are left with running stuff on normal. No one wants to run on normal. So then you are either soloing or taking a guildie along on most stuff, and if you have limited playtime that 300k looks more and more out of reach. I think the issue, though, is not so much the quests as your getting bored with your character. On my barb life I was having a blast, and I TRed too quickly (life 4). I could have stayed a barb for a lot longer.

I would say roll up something else to kind of mix things up a bit. For me, personally, the fun comes from approaching a quest from different angles. Take Gwylan's Stand. As a bard, I would have to be careful, hog out fascinate, charm stuff, and be mindful of traps. On a rogue, I would want a meatshield to take agro, but I could also sneak through it all, expertly killing stuff without alerting others. Yes, I would be humming the Mission Impossible Theme the entire time. On my barb I hit run and auto attack and turn left every 20 seconds then collect my winnings :P

If you are on Ghallanda hit me up, or Thelanis, same name on both, let's whine about the xp needed together!

[THAC0]

Llew... you are a nut.

And yes people, he does hum that theme in voice chat... :)

[danotmano1998]

If you need real advice, don't come to the forums.


Here's my advice I'm giving you on the forums: don't listen advice on these forums.

Catch 22? ;) :p
(I thought it was funny, not meaning to poke fun.)

[Llewndyn]

Catch 22? ;) :p
(I thought it was funny, not meaning to poke fun.)

Feel free to poke fun, I didn't catch that myself, kind of along the lines of "Never trust anyone, everyone is out to get you. Trust me on this"

And Thac0, it's way better than when Refutor and I run stuff and I start singing "Jitterbug" by Wham! Not sure why he still groups with me :P

[Kakashi67]

I won't complain about the XP requirement tho......the difference is night and day compared to what it was and I found it was very fast even the last few levels.....just keep an eye out for the right LFM's......no matter how well and fast you can solo, you usually aren't going to get thru ELITE faster alone than with a decent group red boxing and zerging thru them.

You probably will by the time the group forms, gets buffs, etc.

[Drekisen]

You probably will by the time the group forms, gets buffs, etc.

Nah...I am always doing stuff while a party forms....whether it's slayers or blowing thru a quest really fast while we wait.

The beauty of being a PM is your pretty much self reliant.

I have gotten in a bazillion groups that don't just run one quest either......and I ride that wave as long as I can.

Not too mention I really am not in a big hurry to blow thru levels anyways.....I usually take my time.....I only have plans for four TR's on one character and that's it...I am in no hurry to end it. Once I hit cap on my 4th PM life.....that will be it...no other characters and I will stay 25 until they raise the levels again...so I suspect I will be here on and off regularly.