Fvs nerf

[DarkZaitsev]

Seriously?! my heal only healing 252 with 20% healing amp...it used to heal 400+ ***?, my searing light hitting 130? used to hit 250+ ugh...

[Zyerz]

Seriously?! my heal only healing 252 with 20% healing amp...it used to heal 400+ ***?, my searing light hitting 130? used to hit 250+ ugh...

Get one of them new randomly generated quarterstaves. Great bonuses to devotion, light dmg, nullification, etc....

[Auralana7214]

I refuse to use a quarterstaff as my FVS is specc'd for damage and has a Greensteel Greatsword in her hands for that. I am going to get Empower Healing as an Epic Feat. I also got a devotion +90 item which didn't seem to help much.

[danotmano1998]

Ah you must have missed all the other threads about this.

Favored Souls are so buggy now that they are part of Lolth's domain.
Throw in Warforged and you have a double bug syndrome.

Unless they are trying to make warforged the new halflings?
only 1/2 the power of before but still costs the same! Buy now!
Limited time offer!

(Note: this is NOT a nerf. This is actually a small boost to your power, haven't you heard?) Im serious. Read the dev comments. Somehow what they were going for and what they ended up at never met.

[morticianjohn]

Yeah, you're probably going to have to equip a devotion 90 helm or something similar. In addition you might have to reset your enhancements and take the empower healing feat. If you are WF your healer's friend enhancements are broken but if you're not WF you might see that with these changes I've suggested your heal spell will hit for approximately the same as it did before the update.

[zeonardo]

[Not making fun of you, but this new game they call DDO. Nothing personal here]

LOL
Quarterstaff???
Seriously?
When you picture a FVS you picture a dude/chick with light armor, wings and a quarterstaff?

They want fvs to be like Gandalf?
Ok, I will leave the Druids be your raid healer from now on then.

C'mon!
FVS not only "was" nerfed.
It has been nerfed.
It will still be getting more and more nerfs untill they force them to be healers only.
With a Qstaff impaled and Dodo wings.
And like Dodos, they're being forced out of the game by making it very uncomfortable to them.

[Siro]

I refuse to use a quarterstaff as my FVS is specc'd for damage and has a Greensteel Greatsword in her hands for that. I am going to get Empower Healing as an Epic Feat. I also got a devotion +90 item which didn't seem to help much.

Yeah, heal and mass heal only get half the listed bonus. Clicky items now only provide a small bonus (although that does stack with the item bonuses). Basically melee divine builds got hit hard in u14. Constant 'on' equipment for spellpower is now as good as (or better then) having a meta. So instead of empower healing, if you want to stay melee, you might consider taking a look at what Legendary Dreadnaught or Fury of the Wild provides in epic destinies.

[DoctorWhofan]

Only spells nerfed are Heal and heal mass. Not really nerfed, they are at pre-u14 levels.

Rest of you healing went up.

Wings are bugged and that has been acknowledged, so has the WF healer's friend.

As others said, get a devotion item. THank god I've been wearing the gloves of Eternity for years.


So....you missed out all the hate and discontent from the last two weeks?

[danotmano1998]

Only spells nerfed are Heal and heal mass. Not really nerfed, they are at pre-u14 levels.


Still doesn't explain light spells, however.

Yeah, Heal and Mass heal isn't terrible. They're just a tad lighter than before U14 supposedly, but you've GOT to gear for it. Just be aware that you're only going to get a portion of the spellpower you should for various things, which seems to change each update.

[WruntJunior]

Only spells nerfed are Heal and heal mass. Not really nerfed, they are at pre-u14 levels.

Rest of you healing went up.

Wings are bugged and that has been acknowledged, so has the WF healer's friend.

As others said, get a devotion item. THank god I've been wearing the gloves of Eternity for years.


So....you missed out all the hate and discontent from the last two weeks?

For a FvS, Heal is not at pre-u14 levels. Mass heal got a nice boost for a decent bit of people, but heal takes epic destinies and top-end devotion gear just to get it back where it was, which is ridiculous. Personally, I use heal a LOT in general questing, where as I tend to use mass heal more in raids...so yes, my healing has been nerfed.

That's not touching light spells or the like, as I'm assuming that's a bug.

[DoctorWhofan]

Still doesn't explain light spells, however.

Yeah, Heal and Mass heal isn't terrible. They're just a tad lighter than before U14 supposedly, but you've GOT to gear for it. Just be aware that you're only going to get a portion of the spellpower you should for various things, which seems to change each update.

THat's bug. THey said that wasn't WAI.

[Vormaerin]

Only spells nerfed are Heal and heal mass. Not really nerfed, they are at pre-u14 levels.

Rest of you healing went up.



Well, to be fair, that's only true if you bother to adjust your gear to the new rules. Which the OP hasn't done and apparently isn't inclined to do.

[Auralana7214]

Only spells nerfed are Heal and heal mass. Not really nerfed, they are at pre-u14 levels.

Rest of you healing went up.

Wings are bugged and that has been acknowledged, so has the WF healer's friend.

As others said, get a devotion item. THank god I've been wearing the gloves of Eternity for years.


So....you missed out all the hate and discontent from the last two weeks?

Wings, as far as I can tell, have been fixed.

The devotion +90 item I put on I think only helped for about 30 points of extra healing on a Heal (I'm being conservative, I actually think it was less). I'm at work and can't check it right now.

Gauntlets are only +60 I think. So they would help even less.

[DoctorWhofan]

For a FvS, Heal is not at pre-u14 levels. Mass heal got a nice boost for a decent bit of people, but heal takes epic destinies and top-end devotion gear just to get it back where it was, which is ridiculous. Personally, I use heal a LOT in general questing, where as I tend to use mass heal more in raids...so yes, my healing has been nerfed.

That's not touching light spells or the like, as I'm assuming that's a bug.

Not for me. I've been Cure Crit, mass now, tops just about everyone off. Only if there are issues or debuffs I cast Heal. Since the light spells are bugged right now, I have fallen into the healer mode again. Which is fine for now until the fix it. Which should be VERY SOON (hint, hint, devs!)

They need to fix the WF healer's friend thing too. Which is a bug.

Back to the healing, now I save mana. Besides, Mass Heal is sooooo slow to cast.

[DoctorWhofan]

Well, to be fair, that's only true if you bother to adjust your gear to the new rules. Which the OP hasn't done and apparently isn't inclined to do.

point. Then again, I didn't use clickies and I already dumped my spell pen/potency maces for the dagger from the pirate's cove. I had the gloves for years. They are not the most uber devotion item, but they are a devotion item. It's a change of gameplay, really. I had to adjust a little and it works fine. Besides, I am so happy that my turns work at high level. I kill more with turns (ok, doesn't help the FvS) than with Blade barrier. Now thinking of respeccing for an higher CHA. 11 turns isn't cutting it with RS added into the mess. Fun times! I remember when I'd had reroll to adjust things like stats!

[Chai]

Mass heal used to cost less than mass cure crit, because I used to have to amp up the cure crit with 2 feats to get it to heal enough.

Now that those masses are buffed, I can keep empower heal on, with a devotion item, and use mass cures for cheaper - and also with no wind up like a mass heal requires.

[DoctorWhofan]

Mass heal used to cost less than mass cure crit, because I used to have to amp up the cure crit with 2 feats to get it to heal enough.

Now that those masses are buffed, I can keep empower heal on, with a devotion item, and use mass cures for cheaper - and also with no wind up like a mass heal requires.

exactly

[Postumus]

THat's bug. THey said that wasn't WAI.

Well archon got nerfed in half (confirmed by dev) and currently loads of players are reporting their light based spells are also receiving 1/2 spell power.

[WruntJunior]

Not for me. I've been Cure Crit, mass now, tops just about everyone off. Only if there are issues or debuffs I cast Heal. Since the light spells are bugged right now, I have fallen into the healer mode again. Which is fine for now until the fix it. Which should be VERY SOON (hint, hint, devs!)

They need to fix the WF healer's friend thing too. Which is a bug.

Back to the healing, now I save mana. Besides, Mass Heal is sooooo slow to cast.

My FvS is turning more and more into a paladin with a different symbol by my name than most paladins. I don't play DDO out of altruistic desires, I play it to have fun....if that means I now only watch my own health bar, then I only watch my own health bar.

My evoker....well, Wruntjunior probably won't even be an evoker again.

[DoctorWhofan]

Well archon got nerfed in half (confirmed by dev) and currently loads of players are reporting their light based spells are also receiving 1/2 spell power.

THat's why I said it's a bug.

[Auralana7214]

Yeah, heal and mass heal only get half the listed bonus. Clicky items now only provide a small bonus (although that does stack with the item bonuses). Basically melee divine builds got hit hard in u14. Constant 'on' equipment for spellpower is now as good as (or better then) having a meta. So instead of empower healing, if you want to stay melee, you might consider taking a look at what Legendary Dreadnaught or Fury of the Wild provides in epic destinies.

Thanks, I will look into it when I get home.

[justagame]

THat's why I said it's a bug.

No, Devs confirmed that at least the archon change was intended, and provided no confirmation one way or the other about other light spells.

Furthermore, I am getting the sense that RS-II clerics somehow made out ok in this. But I have two well-geared capped FVS, and even with upgraded gear, heal hits for less. The miniscule change to mass cures means they still heal for dinky amounts without maximize (which kills their efficiency).

For a typical FVS, assuming maxed out life magic line and compared to superior devotion pre-U14, you need a devotion 100 item just to break even. Maybe a RS-II makes out ok here, but FVS single-target healing took a step backwards. And this while hit points and mob damage are going way up. Mass heal just isn't always practical, except for extended boss beatdowns where you know everyone is sticking together for the entire duration of the casting animation.

Not everyone is radiant servant with pumped up EH and other healing benefits. We aren't imagining this nerf, it's very real and demonstrable.

[DeafeningWhisper]

point. Then again, I didn't use clickies and I already dumped my spell pen/potency maces for the dagger from the pirate's cove. I had the gloves for years. They are not the most uber devotion item, but they are a devotion item. It's a change of gameplay, really. I had to adjust a little and it works fine. Besides, I am so happy that my turns work at high level. I kill more with turns (ok, doesn't help the FvS) than with Blade barrier. Now thinking of respeccing for an higher CHA. 11 turns isn't cutting it with RS added into the mess. Fun times! I remember when I'd had reroll to adjust things like stats!

Get Bracelet of Madness from HoX, there are good enough for healing and provide universal spell power and greater evo focus.

[DarkZaitsev]

Get one of them new randomly generated quarterstaves. Great bonuses to devotion, light dmg, nullification, etc....

Erm, I wont use a staff, my main weapon slots are: Skiver and a +9 wisdom GS stick, and ive slotted greater potency VII in my DT armor, but still, that wont fix a reduce of 100+

[DarkZaitsev]

Get Bracelet of Madness from HoX, there are good enough for healing and provide universal spell power and greater evo focus.

My fvs is lvl 17, and i lvl really slowly, so by the time im lvl 20 ill have something better, and also i am unlucky on pugs...i only seen one succesfull hard HOX pug out of like 8

[danotmano1998]

Erm, I wont use a staff, my main weapon slots are: Skiver and a +9 wisdom GS stick, and ive slotted greater potency VII in my DT armor, but still, that wont fix a reduce of 100+

The greater Potency isn't giving you what the description says. It's giving you spell power, but we don't know what that number actually is. The descriptions on the DT armor are wrong.

So you're probaby not down 100+. Maybe more like 50.

[350zguy]

Also if you died... All your spell power items stop working until you re-log, or re-equip.

--Me

[DeafeningWhisper]

My fvs is lvl 17, and i lvl really slowly, so by the time im lvl 20 ill have something better, and also i am unlucky on pugs...i only seen one succesfull hard HOX pug out of like 8

Humm, then pretty much stuck with Gauntlets of Eternity or gen loot.

[Ivan_Milic]

My fvs is lvl 17, and i lvl really slowly, so by the time im lvl 20 ill have something better, and also i am unlucky on pugs...i only seen one succesfull hard HOX pug out of like 8

Hox is a lot harder since expansion.

[zeonardo]

- No melee PrE
- Wing nerf
- Wing regen bug
- Needs awesome gear to heal close to what it took to heal naked with a pot pre-U14
- Nightmare nerf
- To-hit nerf
- Improved/Shield Mastery nerf
- Lots of obsolete spells
- FoM nerf
- WF immunities nerf
- WF heal amp bug
- Deprecated spell book
- No Deities for all races, leaving you with a handful of choices.
- No +2 WIS race
- blah blah blah.

And I'm dang sure that IF (and just IF) you can work around it and still make FVS awesome, they WILL nerf whatever you pull out of your sleeve.

[zwiebelring]

Seriously?! my heal only healing 252 with 20% healing amp...it used to heal 400+ ***?, my searing light hitting 130? used to hit 250+ ugh...
Melee divine builds are slightly screwed at the moment but the overall spellpower system seems to be a big boost to dedicated role models.

Infant terrible are, well, melee FvS/Clr and specifically WF melee FvS at the moment.

It is still possible to play melee FvS but you have to do a little hotkey hopping now. Read Mad Floyd's thread to get a little more insight and make up your own opinion.

The biggest hit on melee FvS was the nerf to Nightmares and Terror. Now you have to search for new weaponry options on fast melee kills. Which was no problem if the dev.s had not had the marvelous idea of generating the most powerful spellpower boosts on weapons. So your options for healing boosts grow dim.

[deahamlet]

Sigh my lovely FvS depresses me now.

Edit:
You think melee FvS are borked? I had to turn my evoker into a gimp melee because the new content is extremely unfriendly to solo-ist evokers without 3 wiz/sorc/FvS past lives.
The only FvS type build with minimal impact is probably a healbot. Which goes hand in hand with the horrid impression I keep getting that Turbine wants all divines to be healbots. In which case, I give up on divines.

[zeonardo]

I'm so fogging mad with all this nerf BS.
I don't know why for the Holy Flame they want to nerf fvs so bad!
Remove this dang class from the game already so I can /ragequit without regrets.

stuffs will be given by then, yeah! :D

Seriously now.
It's not like fvs have never shined, like paladins, bards or rangers.
They were awesome once and they have been just spiral diving headfirst due to uninterrupt nerfs after nerfs at each update and patch.

I curse ALL of your servers to burst on fire from the Silver Flame the next time you touch a snippet of code to nerf FVS again.

[Fefnir_2011]

The way that Devotion and Heal works is screwy as all get out. Alchemicals are nice for the Devotion; I put mine on a shield. It's still nerfed from the original, though.

Superior Devotion IX: 50% on all healing.
Devotion 90: +90 on my cure masses, +45 on my heal spells. Wait, what?

[DoctorWhofan]

Furthermore, I am getting the sense that RS-II clerics somehow made out ok in this. But I have two well-geared capped FVS, and even with upgraded gear, heal hits for less. The miniscule change to mass cures means they still heal for dinky amounts without maximize (which kills their efficiency).

For a typical FVS, assuming maxed out life magic line and compared to superior devotion pre-U14, you need a devotion 100 item just to break even. Maybe a RS-II makes out ok here, but FVS single-target healing took a step backwards. And this while hit points and mob damage are going way up. Mass heal just isn't always practical, except for extended boss beatdowns where you know everyone is sticking together for the entire duration of the casting animation.

Not everyone is radiant servant with pumped up EH and other healing benefits. We aren't imagining this nerf, it's very real and demonstrable.


Perhaps. But the healing has been documented as an improvement. I didn't touch my gear and I saw an improvement in healing. I do not understand how FvS isn't getting the same love in regards to healing.

[DarkForte]

Perhaps. But the healing has been documented as an improvement. I didn't touch my gear and I saw an improvement in healing. I do not understand how FvS isn't getting the same love in regards to healing.

My guess is that undergeared Clerics (meaning no superior devotion IX/ superior ardor VII clickies) are better off than before the expansion (I can come up with the numbers later, I don't have too great an understanding of how RSII works now).

For a FvS with empower healing, he'd need to have 140 (!) spell power on his gear to break even with the pre u14 numbers for his Heal spell (assuming superior devotion 6, if you were using clickies, I'm not sure if there is enough gear on this game for you to catch up).

If he didn't have empower healing, he'd need 100 spell power on his equipment, which is pretty much unsustainable with level 20 gear if you are using a melee weapon (again, I'm leaving clickies out of the equation).

[Dandonk]

For fvs, at least:

Before, we had: Base*(1+meta)*(clicky/item+enhancement+1).
That is, for a heal with empower healing, amrath clickies and Life IV: 150*1.5*(.75+.4+1) = 483.75

Now, we have: Base*(1 + meta + ½(item + clicky + enhancement + implement)).
That is, for heal with empower healing (75), 20 SP clickies, Life IV (80), 18 implement and 102 item:
150 + 150*.75 + ½(1.02+0.2+0.8+0.18)*150 = 427.5

So, based off this, Heal hits for 11% or so less, with full Life line, upgraded gear, using implement. If you're not seeing this, I don't know why (personally my heal seems to bug out and heal for +/- 10% for no apparent reason). But the numbers MF posted leads to the above.

It's not zomg-end-of-the-world, but it IS a nerf.

Maybe the OP notices even larger differences if he's a WF (with bugged healer's friends)?

[Fefnir_2011]

Perhaps. But the healing has been documented as an improvement. I didn't touch my gear and I saw an improvement in healing. I do not understand how FvS isn't getting the same love in regards to healing.

My cleric, with Empower Healing, is healing for more with Heal. Particularly so since she went from Superior Potency VI to a Devotion +102. However, my Favored Soul without EH is healing for less with the Heal Spell, and this is a toon who has the premier Devotion item pre-XPAC, an Alchemical item. My mass cure light now heals for 150-400 depending on crits, while my heal spell is 300 on a non-crit, 500 or so on a crit.

Running with Empower Healing on, I now regularly crit up to 2k on a Mass Heal on my Cleric. That sort of thing is probably why some people aren't seeing why Favored Souls got their healing nerfed. I can tell you personally that I know my Radiant Servant Burst heals for far less, my un-Empowered Healing Heals and Mass Heals hit for less, and my cure spells, Favored Soul Capstones, Heal Scrolls, and Radiant Servant Aura heal for more. My Heal scrolls heal for more than my Heal spell without Empowered Healing, and that's really a shame.

[Chilldude]

Perhaps. But the healing has been documented as an improvement. I didn't touch my gear and I saw an improvement in healing. I do not understand how FvS isn't getting the same love in regards to healing.

Where is it documented that it is an improvement, I'd really like to see that since mathematically it most certainly is not.

Before Life Magic IV gave 40% boost, now Life Magic IV gives 80% boost, which Heal only gets half of, so it turns out to be the same 40%. So enhancements is neither a boost nor a nerf.

Superior Devotion VI would boost Heal 50%, now it gives 72 spwr, which Heal only gets half of so 36%. That's definitely a nerf. However, when you get up to 22-23 you can get a 100 swpr item that will give you 50 spwr so you can be right back to where you were at level 14.

Superior Ardor used to give 75% for 3 minutes, now it gives basically nothing. Nerf. Plus, FVS could easily get away with Superior Ardor and save themselves a much needed feat slot and skip Empower Healing.

Now, the bulk of the spwr has been transferred to Empower Healing, forcing anyone that wants to be a compentent healer to take it. Instead of 50% it gives 75%, a 25% buff. Without it you are most certainly nerfed.

On top of everything else, Heal reaches its cap at level 15. The Staff of Fleshshaping is a ML 14 item and gives 72 spwr to devotion. At level 22 you can get an item that gives 100 spwr to devotion, which means from level 15 to 25 you can see a 15% increase in the effectiveness of your Heal.

If they were going to chop spwr in half for the only 2 healing spells worth throwing, they could have at least made Epic gear even remotely Epic, giving it 200-300 devotion spwr.

Honestly though, I think they just screwed up. I don't think they considered that Heal caps at 15 and Heal Mass caps at 25. So crippling Heal along with Heal Mass was a big mistake and completely unneeded. Heal Mass still has room to progress, whereas Heal is permanerfed by the adding the benefit of reduced spwr.

---edit---

With that being said, a super simple fix for this entire fiasco would be to raise the cap on Heal to 25.

[Chilldude]

My cleric, with Empower Healing, is healing for more with Heal. Particularly so since she went from Superior Potency VI to a Devotion +102. However, my Favored Soul without EH is healing for less with the Heal Spell

That's because a cleric gets 100 spwr from empower healing, they actually did get a buff, especially considering you have to take empower healing for your PrE.

[Fefnir_2011]

That's because a cleric gets 100 spwr from empower healing, they actually did get a buff, especially considering you have to take empower healing for your PrE.

Yeah, I know Empower Healing helps a ton. I meant though that my Favored soul is healing for less hp than she was before the xpac, while my cleric is healing for more than she did before.

[ShadowFlash]

For fvs, at least:

Before, we had: Base*(1+meta)*(clicky/item+enhancement+1).
That is, for a heal with empower healing, amrath clickies and Life IV: 150*1.5*(.75+.4+1) = 483.75

Now, we have: Base*(1 + meta + ½(item + clicky + enhancement + implement)).
That is, for heal with empower healing (75), 20 SP clickies, Life IV (80), 18 implement and 102 item:
150 + 150*.75 + ½(1.02+0.2+0.8+0.18)*150 = 427.5

So, based off this, Heal hits for 11% or so less

Using this for an RSII Cleric (Empower Heal grants 100 for us now)

Pre-U14: Base*(1+meta)*(clicky/item+enhancement+1).
That is, for a heal with RSII empower healing, amrath clickies and Life IV: 150*1.75*(.75+.4+1) = 564.375

U14: Base*(1 + meta + ½(item + clicky + enhancement + implement)).
That is, for heal with empower healing (100), 20 SP clickies, Life IV (80), 18 implement and 102 item:
150 + 150 + ½(1.02+0.2+0.8+0.18)*150 = 465

So, based off this, RSII Heal hits for 18% or so less :(


That's because a cleric gets 100 spwr from empower healing, they actually did get a buff, especially considering you have to take empower healing for your PrE.

Not on heal they didn't...according to the above, actually hit harder than the FvS.




On top of everything else, Heal reaches its cap at level 15. The Staff of Fleshshaping is a ML 14 item and gives 72 spwr to devotion. At level 22 you can get an item that gives 100 spwr to devotion, which means from level 15 to 25 you can see a 15% increase in the effectiveness of your Heal.


Agreed, and this is what most of the posters do not understand. Everyone loves to spout off gear incompetence as the likely culprit for the divines effected by this, but it has more to do with devotion ML's, and "treadmilling" It will all even out in the end half-way decently, but the ML of higher devotion items means you take a hit, and level up to be-able to equip new items that will bring you back to where you once were.

It is simply not possible to have status quo healing (or the "even better" that some claim) without higher levels and/or wielding dedicated staves and weapon swapping between them. This is why melee clerics suffer most pertaining to heal. I'm very adept at weapon swapping to cast, but these requirements combined just to reach equal footing a few levels later, while sacrificing melee DPS in the proccess is unnacceptable for me ATM.

Let's address the RS burst next...
Level 17 Cleric (leaving 3 to represent melee splashing)=CL19
1-8+1 per CL = 4.5+19 = 23.5 base
All Meta's (which even melee cleric usually take)

Pre-U14: Base*(1+meta's)*(clicky/item+enhancement+1).
That is, for a heal with RSII empower healing, amrath clickies and Life IV: 23.5*3.25*(.75+.4+1) = 164.2

U14: Base*(1 + meta + ½(item + clicky + enhancement + implement)).
That is, for heal with empower healing (75), 20 SP clickies, Life IV (80), 18 implement and 102 item:
23.5 + (23.5 x 3.5) + ½(1.02+0.2+0.8+0.18)*23.5 = 131.6 (I'm seeing 127 on live for some reason)

So, based off this, RSII Burst hits for 20% or so less :(


With that being said, a super simple fix for this entire fiasco would be to raise the cap on Heal to 25.

Yes, this would fix everything...KISS principle too...I love it :) Still have RS burst Issues to solve however :(

ShadowFlash

[DarkZaitsev]

Wait...Are there some people who think im a melee fvs? I am not, Im a evoker build 17 fvs atm,so gauntlets of eternity...do they require an upgrade for them to become usefull?

[Barazon]

I refuse to use a quarterstaff as my FVS is specc'd for damage and has a Greensteel Greatsword in her hands for that. I am going to get Empower Healing as an Epic Feat. I also got a devotion +90 item which didn't seem to help much.

Bonus items appear as swords/etc, but they are not nearly as good as the thaumaturgy staves. I have not seen the "thaumaturgy" prefix appear on anything but a staff. Turbine has made the cookie cutters, now you must fit your toons into them! (/sarcasm off by the way)

[susiedupfer]

Please STOP telling me I was not nerfed. I was nerfed. On my FVS AND my RSII Clerics. STOP telling me that I need to regear, I have regeared. I had the best gear available pre U14, I have the best gear post U14. I am still nerfed. I am talking about healing AND offensive spells.

[Ertay]

Please STOP telling me I was not nerfed. I was nerfed. On my FVS AND my RSII Clerics. STOP telling me that I need to regear, I have regeared. I had the best gear available pre U14, I have the best gear post U14. I am still nerfed. I am talking about healing AND offensive spells.

you. were. nerfed. Personally even. The devs went out of their way and picked your toons to be the only ones nerfed this update I heard. Must be, because I figured mine are working flawlessly once I actually bothered to check my facts and realized how things work now.

[Dandonk]

you. were. nerfed. Personally even. The devs went out of their way and picked your toons to be the only ones nerfed this update I heard. Must be, because I figured mine are working flawlessly once I actually bothered to check my facts and realized how things work now.

You checked the math on the new system? Good. For a FVS eith Emp Healing, full Life line and using amrath clickies before - who now upgraded to +102 devotion, +18 implement, still using clickies - now heals for 11% less with Heal spell.
Those are the facts of the system as laid out by MF. If you're not seeing that, don't be surprised when you get "fixed".

[Hendrik]

The way that Devotion and Heal works is screwy as all get out. Alchemicals are nice for the Devotion; I put mine on a shield. It's still nerfed from the original, though.

Superior Devotion IX: 50% on all healing.
Devotion 90: +90 on my cure masses, +45 on my heal spells. Wait, what?

Don't get me started on Alchem Shields.

Very unhappy that it is only +90 and random loot get I found is +109.

I have shelved a piece of 'hard' to make Raid gear for relatively 'easy' to find random loot that is far better.

[Hendrik]

Please STOP telling me I was not nerfed. I was nerfed. On my FVS AND my RSII Clerics. STOP telling me that I need to regear, I have regeared. I had the best gear available pre U14, I have the best gear post U14. I am still nerfed. I am talking about healing AND offensive spells.

What is the +Healing Power of your Devotion Item?

Oh, and you might want to go read MadFloyd's post on Healing for actual facts.

[Dandonk]

What is the +Healing Power of your Devotion Item?

Oh, and you might want to go read MadFloyd's post on Healing for actual facts.

I did. I -was- nerfed. Around 11%.

Now, if you weren't using amrath clickies and only plain old 50% sup pot, no - you were not nerfed. But why would anyone not use amrath clickies?

[Hendrik]

I did. I -was- nerfed. Around 11%.

Now, if you weren't using amrath clickies and only plain old 50% sup pot, no - you were not nerfed. But why would anyone not use amrath clickies?

Again, what is the +Healing Power of your Devotion Item?

[Dandonk]

Again, what is the +Healing Power of your Devotion Item?

My calculations were with a +102, +18 implement item.

Before:
Fvs with Emp Healing, full Life and Amrath clickies:
Heal = 150*1.5*(.75+.4+1) = 483.75

Now:

Fvs with Emp Healing, full Life and Amrath Clickies, 18 implement and 102 devotion item:
Heal = 150*(1+.75+.5*(1.02+.2+.18+.8)) = 427.5

[countfitz]

Get Bracelet of Madness from HoX, there are good enough for healing and provide universal spell power and greater evo focus.

They're potency 48. They got a MASSIVE nerf too. Granted, I use them... because I refuse to give into the Devs moronic notion that I should regear my toons to healing spec nannybots, so if melee's die oh well. If enough healers give up on the dev's plans, and the game really starts to hurt for it, they'll give in. They always have for the casters.

[Ertay]

You checked the math on the new system? Good. For a FVS eith Emp Healing, full Life line and using amrath clickies before - who now upgraded to +102 devotion, +18 implement, still using clickies - now heals for 11% less with Heal spell.
Those are the facts of the system as laid out by MF. If you're not seeing that, don't be surprised when you get "fixed".

Correct. If you are deliberately narrowing your view to looking at the heal spell only. Now in how many situations where healing output actually matters do you solely rely on hardcasting the heal spell?

Do you never use heal mass then? You also do not plan on using the other active heals form the fvs destiny tree, and will you not pick up the +healing power abilities from the tree then? What about the other possible sources of healing, how much did your scroll cast heal get nerfed?

Also, the much dreaded "regearing" to nanybots... you have to slot in a +102 devotion item anywhere, it does not have to be your weapon slot, and this comes on random loot even. Thats it. All you lose that way would be the implement bonus and it, if you want you can use the holy symbol of lolth and even get that one on a non weapon slot, which conveniently carries all the other spellpower types you need as well.

[danotmano1998]

If they were going to chop spwr in half for the only 2 healing spells worth throwing, they could have at least made Epic gear even remotely Epic, giving it 200-300 devotion spwr.


I agree that "Epic" gear really got hit hard. Too hard, IMO.
Making it at least as good as the random drops, or a minimum of 100-150 would have made the gear worthy of consideration. As it is now, the old epic gear isn't very palatable.

[Dandonk]

Correct. If you are deliberately narrowing your view to looking at the heal spell only. Now in how many situations where healing output actually matters do you solely rely on hardcasting the heal spell?

Do you never use heal mass then? You also do not plan on using the other active heals form the fvs destiny tree, and will you not pick up the +healing power abilities from the tree then? What about the other possible sources of healing, how much did your scroll cast heal get nerfed?

Also, the much dreaded "regearing" to nanybots... you have to slot in a +102 devotion item anywhere, it does not have to be your weapon slot, and this comes on random loot even. Thats it. All you lose that way would be the implement bonus and it, if you want you can use the holy symbol of lolth and even get that one on a non weapon slot, which conveniently carries all the other spellpower types you need as well.

Oh, sorry, I thought we were talking aobut the heal spell.

But yes, heal mass is fine. If you use it - personally I don't, though, since I pug too much with low HP people.

Spow to scrolls has to be a bug, so it'll be the same as ever when it gets fixed.

It's still one gear slot more than before. And Holy Symbol is cool - except for if you want your Torc, of course. For those lucky enough to have one, anyway.

[Ertay]

Oh, sorry, I thought we were talking aobut the heal spell.


the topic title is "Fvs nerf", then the op proceeded to exclusively rant about how heal got nerfed. If you say a class was nerfed because one ability gets slightly weaker situationally, while everything else got buffed, I'll say something is off. Just wanted to point at the buffs here.



But yes, heal mass is fine. If you use it - personally I don't, though, since I pug too much with low HP people.


Low hp people are what your slas (cure light wounds if human and renewal as well otherwise) are for, I consider cheap healing to top people off buffed even. Also, if your targets have low hp, you are most likely overhealing more often than not, where you wouldn't notice that ~11% difference anyway.




Spellpower to scrolls has to be a bug, so it'll be the same as ever when it gets fixed.


Yes, I expect the same. I just wanted to point out that in situations were you want to use the spell, you're very likely to use the scroll as well, which was not changed. This alone would get your overall output closer to what it was before. Not to mention that you can now alternate with one more single target sla and have a cheap mass heal alternative on a longer cooldown as well.



It's still one gear slot more than before. And Holy Symbol is cool - except for if you want your Torc, of course. For those lucky enough to have one, anyway.

Despite the misleading inventory item, holy symbol is a trinket, just wanted to point that out. So if you're a caster it does somewhat conflict with the insightful wis +3 trinket now, but there are other ways to get both the +8 enhancement and +3 insight as well, and with this you have your +1 exceptional covered at least.

[Dandonk]

the topic title is "Fvs nerf", then the op proceeded to exclusively rant about how heal got nerfed. If you say a class was nerfed because one ability gets slightly weaker situationally, while everything else got buffed, I'll say something is off. Just wanted to point at the buffs here.

Low hp people are what your slas (cure light wounds if human and renewal as well otherwise) are for, I consider cheap healing to top people off buffed even. Also, if your targets have low hp, you are most likely overhealing more often than not, where you wouldn't notice that ~11% difference anyway.

Yes, I expect the same. I just wanted to point out that in situations were you want to use the spell, you're very likely to use the scroll as well, which was not changed. This alone would get your overall output closer to what it was before. Not to mention that you can now alternate with one more single target sla and have a cheap mass heal alternative on a longer cooldown as well.

Despite the misleading inventory item, holy symbol is a trinket, just wanted to point that out. So if you're a caster it does somewhat conflict with the insightful wis +3 trinket now, but there are other ways to get both the +8 enhancement and +3 insight as well, and with this you have your +1 exceptional covered at least.

Well, the pewpew shoulder cannon was nerfed, too.
But yes, while Heal was nerfed, FVS is still playable. We do not disagree there - I just wanted to comment on the fact that Heal was, in fact, nerfed - despite what MF and others said.

It's a trinket? Gah, and to think I gave the only one I looted away to a guildie, I didn't look too closely and thought it was a necky. My bad!

Really, my main point is that yes, Heal was nerfed. MF posted a long long post saying it didn't, when in fact his own information clearly shows that (if what is live corresponds to his post anyway) it was.


EDIT: Have a +1 for correcting my bad info.

[Chilldude]

the topic title is "Fvs nerf", then the op proceeded to exclusively rant about how heal got nerfed. If you say a class was nerfed because one ability gets slightly weaker situationally, while everything else got buffed, I'll say something is off. Just wanted to point at the buffs here.

Cures basically got a buff by default since Heals got nerfed and they did not. However, even with the buff to cures they are still far less efficient than Heals. Go see for yourself, as an experienced healer it's one of the very first things I did. I was actually excited at the thought that perhaps this new change might add some complexity in mana efficient spell selection, it did not.

Not only does it take more time to cast several cures that add up to a single Heal, you still have to empower them to even get close in efficiency, making them no longer extremely cheap when compared to a Heal. An empowered Heal costs 50 SP, while an empowered Cure Critical costs 30. Sure, the cure could crit and save you 20 SP, but more likely than not you will have to throw a second cure which will end up costing you 10 SP more than if you'd just thrown the Heal in the first place.

On top of that, Heal alleviates the following conditions:


Blinded
Confused
Dazed
Dazzled
Deafened
Diseased
Exhausted
Fatigued
Feebleminded
Insanity
Nauseated
Poisoned
Stunned


If you throw a cure you are doing it wrong. You are wasting time, mana, and most certainly not getting the most out of that cast even with a crit as you could have healed all of the above conditions as well.

This isn't a case of one spell getting 'situationally weaker' as you put it. This is a case of THE SPELL getting crippled to the point where it reaches its maximum potential at level 15 and doesn't gain in strength all the way to 25 with epic gear.

I'll repeat this as I don't think it can be said too often...

The Staff of Fleshshaping is ML 14 and has 72 spwr. A level 22 Epic staff has 102 spwr, which increases Heal a mere 15%!

At level 15 you can cast a Heal for ((((80+72+15)/2 + 75)/100) + 1) * 150 = 387
At level 25 you can cast a Heal for ((((80+102+15)/2 +75)/100) + 1) * 150 = 410

Not very Epic is it?

[DarkForte]

Agreed, and this is what most of the posters do not understand. Everyone loves to spout off gear incompetence as the likely culprit for the divines effected by this, but it has more to do with devotion ML's, and "treadmilling" It will all even out in the end half-way decently, but the ML of higher devotion items means you take a hit

I'm still waiting for one of the 'I hjeal better nao' crowd to present the math leading to their perceived buff. Pretty much everyone that used empower healing heals for less now.

[Hendrik]

Cures basically got a buff by default since Heals got nerfed and they did not. However, even with the buff to cures they are still far less efficient than Heals. Go see for yourself, as an experienced healer it's one of the very first things I did. I was actually excited at the thought that perhaps this new change might add some complexity in mana efficient spell selection, it did not.

Not only does it take more time to cast several cures that add up to a single Heal, you still have to empower them to even get close in efficiency, making them no longer extremely cheap when compared to a Heal. An empowered Heal costs 50 SP, while an empowered Cure Critical costs 30. Sure, the cure could crit and save you 20 SP, but more likely than not you will have to throw a second cure which will end up costing you 10 SP more than if you'd just thrown the Heal in the first place.

On top of that, Heal alleviates the following conditions:


Blinded
Confused
Dazed
Dazzled
Deafened
Diseased
Exhausted
Fatigued
Feebleminded
Insanity
Nauseated
Poisoned
Stunned


If you throw a cure you are doing it wrong. You are wasting time, mana, and most certainly not getting the most out of that cast even with a crit as you could have healed all of the above conditions as well.

This isn't a case of one spell getting 'situationally weaker' as you put it. This is a case of THE SPELL getting crippled to the point where it reaches its maximum potential at level 15 and doesn't gain in strength all the way to 25 with epic gear.

I'll repeat this as I don't think it can be said too often...

The Staff of Fleshshaping is ML 14 and has 72 spwr. A level 22 Epic staff has 102 spwr, which increases Heal a mere 15%!

At level 15 you can cast a Heal for ((((80+72+15)/2 + 75)/100) + 1) * 150 = 387
At level 25 you can cast a Heal for ((((80+102+15)/2 +75)/100) + 1) * 150 = 410

Not very Epic is it?

Panacea can take care of most of those as well for far less SP not to mention Divine Healing for no SP.

[Chilldude]

Panacea can take care of most of those as well for far less SP not to mention Divine Healing for no SP.

I was comparing a cure to a Heal and stated that it is not only less efficient for healing, but also Heal comes with all those added benefits.

If you want to compare cure + panacea to a Heal, by all means, show me the numbers! I'd LOVE to see 'em!

[nicnivyn]

My problem with people saying that FvS did not get nerfed just because 1 spell (Heal) was nerfed is they are not taking everything into consideration.

My main is a FvS evoker. Past lives 3 FvS, 3 Sorc, 3 Wiz. I have already upgraded all my equipment and have +15 implement, +102 equipment, +20 alchemical - reasonable if not 'absolute best' and my Heal spell went from ~400 pre U14 to ~220 post U14.

As an evoker, I'm spec'd to Necro and Evocation spell. (Yay Slay Living, Destruction, Implosion rotation!) I took 2 spell pen feats, empower, maximize, toughtness, Wiz active past life, heighten - all focused on improving spell dc, spell penetration, and blade barrier damage.

For enhancements, I would take human improved recovery, spell pen, light damage amplification - once maxing out the things that are important to the goals of my build I had few ap left for maxing healing enhancments.

The thing is - I didn't need those things. I didn't need full healing enhancements or Empower Healing (feat) to be a good healer, both in party and raids. Between items and clickies healing worked just fine. And I think many FvS are in the same boat. We play FvS because we had the capability of doing more than just spec'ing for healing. We could contribute more (as either spell caster or melee) and still heal the same.

Now not so much. Just to get equal benefit from Heal (I don't care about Mass quite frankly. Why should I have to throw Mass Heal in a group when only one character is taking damage? I care about the one barb who's keeping aggro and preventing the rest of the group from getting hit as much, I should not need Mass for that.) I need all those equipment/implement/alchemical + Empower Healing.

Which I have taken, along with additional Healing enhancements - thus reducing the effectiveness of my planned build and my own enjoyment of it.

That is the problem.

We are being forced into a particular rut just to function at the same or slightly lower level as we did pre U14.

I deal, but I don't like it and won't pretend that I appreciate it.

[taurean430]

My Evoker is in a similar boat. I did design him to be heal capable however. Life Magic 1-4, crit chance 1, crit multiplier 1. I went Evocation instead of Necro though. Rakir's set, full smiting line with crit chance 1, crit multiplier 1. I used blade barriers and light damage primarily, with greater command/command, and some debuffs. Only occasionally did I break out implosion/destruction/slay living in a group setting.

That said I made full use of light, untyped, alignment based spell damage and healed. It was a nice balance.

It still works now, but the damage is down. My blade barrier pre update used to crit for high 855, 750ish on average. Now it crits for a high 300 *with appropriate gear*. I cannot get answers on this so far. And stating that the archon is hitting for a pre set value really doesn't address anything at all. Comparing the numbers I am seeing with other classes I run shows a big number discrepancy. My FvS was already on the border of his contribution damage wise being unremarkable. With the current state it's pretty awful.

As it stands currently I am only using my FvS and my Cleric either solo, helping out friends occasionally, or easy auto complete runs like shroud/von5&6.

As far as healing goes, the numbers are good for him. No where near what they were, but still workable. I just have to use the +102 devotion sickle/greater ardor pot/clicky/eardweller to pump out big numbers.

[Vormaerin]

There does seem to be something wrong with damage output from spells. Hopefully that will get fixed quickly.

Favored Souls do have more of an adjustment to make, because they don't automatically have all the healing spells like a cleric does. So if you got nearly all your healing from Heal, its more significant than on someone with a wider range of spells.

Its the folks who say they have upgraded their gear to +140 SP (implement/equipment/alchemical) and have 40% to 50% drops in Heal output that I don't get. That makes no sense in terms of what I'm seeing with my characters.

[ddonoobgamer]

As others said, get a devotion item.

Most divines already have a generic potency item on like the cove hat. My cove hat already gives 60 potency, so replacing it with a 90 devotion hat means losing generic spell boost to other spells for a measly 30 point increase, which gets halfed anyways so you gain 15%. That translates to only an extra 22 hp for a heal.

If you're willing to sacrifice your weapon slot for devotion, you can get over 100, maybe hit around 120 with the enhancement bonus you get now. That means 60 extra healing spell points to those with a 60 potency cove hat. That's 30% boost to a spell's base strength. That translates to only an extra 45 hp for a heal.

Both those options I described above means a considerable sacrifice for a very minimal improvement to your overall heal. That extra 22hp or 45 hp per heal doesn't really make much difference in a world where 700hp toons are common and 1000hp tanks are no longer rare.

[Flavilandile]

[...] I am so happy that my turns work at high level. I kill more with turns (ok, doesn't help the FvS) than with Blade barrier. Now thinking of respeccing for an higher CHA. 11 turns isn't cutting it with RS added into the mess.

Yes, got that surprise in the quest with all those zombies in the Forest... as I have 20/21 Turns ( depends on Ship buff ) I said :*shrug* I can waste one to see what's gonna happen... It regen after all and I won't go through them before the end of the quest. Bam!! all the party asking where the mob went.

[morticianjohn]

There does seem to be something wrong with damage output from spells. Hopefully that will get fixed quickly.

Favored Souls do have more of an adjustment to make, because they don't automatically have all the healing spells like a cleric does. So if you got nearly all your healing from Heal, its more significant than on someone with a wider range of spells.

Its the folks who say they have upgraded their gear to +140 SP (implement/equipment/alchemical) and have 40% to 50% drops in Heal output that I don't get. That makes no sense in terms of what I'm seeing with my characters.

the difference is that your characters probably had empower healing already.

[Vormaerin]

the difference is that your characters probably had empower healing already.

So... we are talking about characters whose only investment in healing before was a ardor clicky and one spell slot?

[Matuse]

So... we are talking about characters whose only investment in healing before was a ardor clicky and one spell slot?

And Life Magic 4, and probably Prayer of Life and Incredible Life I. Most FvS I know who are even vaguely serious about healing will also have one of the mass cures.

Thing is, Empower Healing is granting full spellpower to (Mass) Heal, and it's the only thing that does. So if you have that feat, you won't notice anywhere near as much of a drop-off.

[nicnivyn]

So... we are talking about characters whose only investment in healing before was a ardor clicky and one spell slot?

No, in my case we're talking about a character who invested 3 spell slots (Heal, Mass Cure Critical, Mass Heal) some enhancement points (2 tiers Healing, 1 tier critical generally) had Amrath ardor clickies, and superior potency VII.

Mass Heal worked just fine, Empowered/Maximized MCCW for quick heals when MH was on timer, Heal and scrolls for single target. Combined with the CLW capstone many FVS have (which takes meta magics and benefits from potency/devotion) healing was more than adequately covered without having to take Empower Healing or maxed out enhancements.

Now, post U14 to get the basically same benefit I have to put my resources (enhancement points and a feat) into bringing my healing back up to par - not better than, but basically the SAME as I could do pre U14 without those things.

Again, I'll note I am dismissing the 'buff' to Mass Heal - it didn't need it before and provides no true benefit to me. It's a red herring. I'm not going 'oh great, Mass Heal hits for 24pts more now! I'll let people get that much lower before casting it.' And having to cast Mass Heal on a group when only one person is taking damage because it hits for more is kind of silly.

[Forzah]

No, in my case we're talking about a character who invested 3 spell slots (Heal, Mass Cure Critical, Mass Heal) some enhancement points (2 tiers Healing, 1 tier critical generally) had Amrath ardor clickies, and superior potency VII.


Wow, what a massive investment. Giving up so much for healing must be the biggest pain one can bear. Give me a break man :p

[morticianjohn]

Wow, what a massive investment. Giving up so much for healing must be the biggest pain one can bear. Give me a break man :p

Well to be honest healing didn't take as much of an investment prior to the update. In reality most people don't want to sit back and heal. Prior to the update good divines were in the mix throwing spells and/or melee damage around. Players have used the term "heal capable" to describe themselves. Making healing more difficult for those players will only serve to lower the number of availible healers for a given quest.

I'm not saying there won't be new healers and this isn't some DOOM post but I do think that further changes that seem to corner divines into a healer role should be strongly discouraged. Hopefully, some of these current changes will be revisited also.

[WruntJunior]

Wow, what a massive investment. Giving up so much for healing must be the biggest pain one can bear. Give me a break man :p

The sound of the point whooshing over your head is impressive. If we depended on people wanting to play healers to be altruistic party members who are willing to lessen the fun of their experience in-game in order to be able to effectively heal, we're likely to not get what we want. Very few people log onto their healer and say "I want to just sit in the back and heal today!" This is the inherent problem with Turbine's trend towards making healing require more and more investment: every piece of gear and every feat you invest in being a better healer lowers your effectiveness in other areas, and as people tend to prefer a DC-caster-oriented or melee-oriented divine character, every piece of gear and feat lost just to be able to heal like before is significant.

This isn't a difficult concept...if you make doing the job expected of someone with a certain class significantly harder, you're likely to see fewer of that class...or likely to see people who stop viewing it as their job to heal others. Every time something happens like this, fewer people want to play healers in end-game content...in this last nerf, I myself lost that desire (as my main was an evoker). I very much doubt we'll see a sudden huge absence of healers, but if healing gets to be more and more of a difficult enough job to perform that other jobs are hard to do along-side healing, we will see an attrition of healers (though not necessarily an absence of FvS and Clerics...just a lack of heals).

Edit: Personally, between the wing nerf, abundance of wing availability on other classes (any class can have it now through epic destinies), and heal nerf, my evoker is no longer going to be a FvS (going PM), and my melee FvS is essentially a paladin with a FvS symbol (that may throw heals on people...but in no way feels obligated to do so). I would not be surprised if this becomes an increasing trend among players, especially if there's any more divine nerfs in the pipes.

[Astars]

Back on topic of melee WF FvS, I think the currently best way to go is graba tier 3 alchemical greatsword

Make it flametouched iron
tier 1 mystical fire
tier 2 martial electric
tier 3 martial-any for a red slot and metallic edges for universal DR breakin

The way LoB is now its not too hard to farm (esp since exquisite spirits drop in epic-norm)
and you get a combination of
a) decent damage with unversal DR breaking
b) decent devotion with devotion 90

Thats my 2 c

Cheers

Ast

[mystafyi]

Its the folks who say they have upgraded their gear to +140 SP (implement/equipment/alchemical) and have 40% to 50% drops in Heal output that I don't get. That makes no sense in terms of what I'm seeing with my characters.

I will speak of just my cleric. Post U14, the empower healing metafeat bugged out on my toon. Activating/de-activating the meta did nothing, relogging did nothing, Fred was gone, LR's were having reports of tomes lost.... TR'ing fixed me up though ;)

[Forzah]

The sound of the point whooshing over your head is impressive. If we depended on people wanting to play healers to be altruistic party members who are willing to lessen the fun of their experience in-game in order to be able to effectively heal, we're likely to not get what we want. Very few people log onto their healer and say "I want to just sit in the back and heal today!" This is the inherent problem with Turbine's trend towards making healing require more and more investment: every piece of gear and every feat you invest in being a better healer lowers your effectiveness in other areas, and as people tend to prefer a DC-caster-oriented or melee-oriented divine character, every piece of gear and feat lost just to be able to heal like before is significant.

This isn't a difficult concept...if you make doing the job expected of someone with a certain class significantly harder, you're likely to see fewer of that class...or likely to see people who stop viewing it as their job to heal others. Every time something happens like this, fewer people want to play healers in end-game content...in this last nerf, I myself lost that desire (as my main was an evoker). I very much doubt we'll see a sudden huge absence of healers, but if healing gets to be more and more of a difficult enough job to perform that other jobs are hard to do along-side healing, we will see an attrition of healers (though not necessarily an absence of FvS and Clerics...just a lack of heals).


That could be true, but on the other hand, there's no need to give someone full healing power without any serious investments. The actual investment would probably only require one extra tier of healing, a devotion slot somewhere in your gear, and the empower healing feat and you're set again. With the extra feat slots that have been included, it's all very manageable.

[Chilldude]

That could be true, but on the other hand, there's no need to give someone full healing power without any serious investments. The actual investment would probably only require one extra tier of healing, a devotion slot somewhere in your gear, and the empower healing feat and you're set again. With the extra feat slots that have been included, it's all very manageable.

So you're saying someone should invest a bunch of points into enhancements that only give them half power, slot an item that gives you half power, and use up a feat slot for a spell that reaches its maximum potential at level 15 and only increases by ~15% at level cap with epic gear?

[Fefnir_2011]

So you're saying someone should invest a bunch of points into enhancements that only give them half power, slot an item that gives you half power, and use up a feat slot for a spell that reaches its maximum potential at level 15 and only increases by ~15% at level cap with epic gear?

Maybe the eSoS should only get 50% from Power Attack and Power Attack enhancements, along with only half the strength and attack modifiers. Would put us all on even ground.

[morticianjohn]

Back on topic of melee WF FvS, I think the currently best way to go is graba tier 3 alchemical greatsword

Make it flametouched iron
tier 1 mystical fire
tier 2 martial electric
tier 3 martial-any for a red slot and metallic edges for universal DR breakin

The way LoB is now its not too hard to farm (esp since exquisite spirits drop in epic-norm)
and you get a combination of
a) decent damage with unversal DR breaking
b) decent devotion with devotion 90

Thats my 2 c

Cheers

Ast

1st - you're better off slotting a devotion 90 item in the helm or other gear slot options. Then your melee won't be totally gimp as it would with a sub par alchemical mixture.
2nd - good luck finding enough LoB groups. These weren't exactly hot raids prior to the update and while epic mats might be easier to come by you'll still need some heroic normal/hard LoB to fully upgrade the item and those will be a pain to find groups for. I was running this prior to the update and it was taking 30-60 minutes to fill.

[nicnivyn]

Wow, what a massive investment. Giving up so much for healing must be the biggest pain one can bear. Give me a break man :p

The point wasn't to impress anyone with my 'massive' investment, the point was full disclosure and that investing more than that was not necessary pre U14. I don't mind healing; I like healing, I feel it's an investment in your guild and community to play a 'healer' but my FvS is NOT a Healer. She's a Favored Soul. Smiting the wicked and making evil regret its unruly ways. Keeping the party alive is an equally important but not primany function.

I also play a third life Cleric with maxed healing enhancements, gear for level, and empower healing. She is, if anything, a true Healer and U14 affected her not at all - because she already had all the things that are now required to be 'good' at healing.

Anyway, the real point of my various statements is that U14 changed the game for melee and non-primary-healer caster divines. Not that the new requirements are onerous, but that they are NEW and thus change the way we play, build, and enjoy our characters.

YMMV

[MRMechMan]

Back on topic of melee WF FvS, I think the currently best way to go is graba tier 3 alchemical greatsword

Make it flametouched iron
tier 1 mystical fire
tier 2 martial electric
tier 3 martial-any for a red slot and metallic edges for universal DR breakin

The way LoB is now its not too hard to farm (esp since exquisite spirits drop in epic-norm)
and you get a combination of
a) decent damage with unversal DR breaking
b) decent devotion with devotion 90

Thats my 2 c

Cheers

Ast

Meh...there is no really good solution.

Better to slot 90 devotion on helm with an epic item. Use ESOS or litII or nice random epic. 20% on tod ring 30% on gloves and watch as heals still only hit you for 400 when you have 900+ hp. And you used to have 650hp and they hit you for 550-600 without needing a ***** devotion item.

Cry a little bit.

Curse turbine for this debacle that they are ignoring.

Then reroll into a race that doesn't have utterly broken selfhealing.

[Hendrik]

I was comparing a cure to a Heal and stated that it is not only less efficient for healing, but also Heal comes with all those added benefits.

If you want to compare cure + panacea to a Heal, by all means, show me the numbers! I'd LOVE to see 'em!

Was not trying to make a comparison between the two, sorry if it read like that.

:o

Just trying to add some information for benefit vs SP costs.

Heal always seems to be the end all, be all for curing things and most of the time it is way overkill for the job. Same results can be achieved for less SP.