WAIT! SIRETH > eSoS.

[Boromirs]

I take it all back! Sireth can BEAT the eSoS. OMG.

http://ddowiki.com/images/Sireth.JPG

I think probably fleshed out the weapon can have a crit range of 13-20?!!?

P.S. It breaks DR with a Artificer.

[Machination]

OK, I love Quarterstaffs (and get lots of flack for it), gotta have it!

[barryman5000]

I take it all back! Sireth can BEAT the eSoS. OMG.

http://ddowiki.com/images/Sireth.JPG

I think probably fleshed out the weapon can have a crit range of 13-20?!!?

P.S. It breaks DR with a Artificer.


That sir makes me one to make a quarterstaff half-orc monk. 30% crit chance with imp crit and awesome base damage and effects?

For a quarterstaff this is a first for me -- >*drool*

[Arkat]

I think probably fleshed out the weapon can have a crit range of 14-20?!!?

Fixed.

[B0ltdrag0n]

"With this spear I shall pierce the heavens"

This and Twilight are one of the few items I've seen that I am excited about.

[Moltier]

Now this is actually an awesome weapon, it beats the eSoS in most non trash situation.
eSoS seems to be better vs 0-20% fort enemys, but after that, the spear wins.
With the plus 4 possible damage, they are equal vs trash.
Plus as far as i remember, the staff cleave animation is pretty fast, but im not sure about that.
Oh yeah, and it can break pierce DR too!

I wouldnt thought the first real competitor will be a quarterstaff! :D
Whats next? An epic shurriken? :)

But of course, the higher the base damage goes, the better for the eSoS.

[Boromirs]

Now this is actually an awesome weapon, it beats the eSoS in most non trash situation.
eSoS seems to be better vs 0-20% fort enemys, but after that, the spear wins.
With the plus 4 possible damage, they are equal vs trash.
Plus as far as i remember, the staff cleave animation is pretty fast, but im not sure about that.
Oh yeah, and it can break pierce DR too!

I wouldnt thought the first real competitor will be a quarterstaff! :D
Whats next? An epic shurriken? :)

But of course, the higher the base damage goes, the better for the eSoS.

I was so wrong about what turbine did...so wide is their wisdom and so deep their devotion to the game they have actually placed the esos killer in a humble spear. ... oh and did u calc in the extended crit range for the spear due to epic destiny feat?

Spears also may have bigger hit box. Anyhow an excellent esos killer.

[Feralthyrtiaq]

A spear! Supah-Ubah!

[Persiflage]

*gulp* O_O

Where... do I get one? WHERE?!?!?

I will be really, really good from now until Christmas, I PROMISE!

[Moltier]

I was so wrong about what turbine did...so wide is their wisdom and so deep their devotion to the game they have actually placed the esos killer in a humble spear. ... oh and did u calc in the extended crit range for the spear due to epic destiny feat?

Spears also may have bigger hit box. Anyhow an excellent esos killer.

I did not, but crit range would help the eSoS more.
I wouldnt say its an eSoS killer, but now we have 2 amazing options.

[Boromirs]

I did not, but crit range would help the eSoS more.
I wouldnt say its an eSoS killer, but now we have 2 amazing options.

No no, the esos DOES NOT get the extended crit range because its a epic destiny feat that ONLY applies to piercing weapons. With this feat it should thoroughly WOMP the esos.

[Ertay]

No no, the esos DOES NOT get the extended crit range because its a epic destiny feat that ONLY applies to piercing weapons. With this feat it should thoroughly WOMP the esos.

Hold your breath for a moment. There are reasons to suspect that this will not be affected by the epic enhancements solely due to dealing piercing damage. I'd assume it works like the improved critical itself, which does not look at the damage type dealt by the weapon, but the damage type typically dealt by weapons of its category (i.e. blunt, for being a quarterstaff).
There are numerous examples for this, for example sun blade dealing slash damage but being affected by ic: piercing due to being a shortsword, the same for rahls might and ic:blunt.

[Moltier]

No no, the esos DOES NOT get the extended crit range because its a epic destiny feat that ONLY applies to piercing weapons. With this feat it should thoroughly WOMP the esos.

Which feat you are talking about?

[Boromirs]

Hold your breath for a moment. There are reasons to suspect that this will not be affected by the epic enhancements solely due to dealing piercing damage. I'd assume it works like the improved critical itself, which does not look at the damage type dealt by the weapon, but the damage type typically dealt by weapons of its category (i.e. blunt, for being a quarterstaff).
There are numerous examples for this, for example sun blade dealing slash damage but being affected by ic: piercing due to being a shortsword, the same for rahls might and ic:blunt.

Sorry I don't know why I keep saying piercing ... its bludgeoing which a quarterstaff is categorized under. The ED feat called pulverizer increases crit range by one on Bludgeoing only weapons.

[Hityu]

Which feat you are talking about?

Legendary Dreadnought - Pulverizer (min level: 20) (1 rank - 2 AP): (Passive) Increases the critical threat range of bludgeoning weapons you equip by 1.

This will go perfectly with my Acrobat.

[Svartelric]

Will Pulverizer work on a weapon that has no bludgeoning weapon? Because the spear has only slashing and piercing...

[srxmk2]

sweet for monk acrobat, dance of flower 1.5W, improved martial arts 0.5W, improved power attack 0.5W, overall 5d10 base damage! and with 10% extra attack speed

[Diyon]

sweet for monk acrobat, dance of flower 1.5W, improved martial arts 0.5W, improved power attack 0.5W, overall 5d10 base damage! and with 10% extra attack speed

Grab another +[w] from LD. Personally I'd go full acrobat for the 15% over the .5 monk epic feat. Can't wait to get this on my acrobats.

[Boromirs]

Grab another +[w] from LD. Personally I'd go full acrobat for the 15% over the .5 monk epic feat. Can't wait to get this on my acrobats.

Weapon is all purpose as it also synergies with barb class and dreadnought ed. Overall a great well thought out weapon.

[Rizzia]

While I know obviously its a quaterstaff, due to spears not being in the game, it does seem that its clearly made out to be a spear..

So I ask, wheres the 3x crit multiplier of a spear?

[threefeetunder]

Fixed.

If the +1 crit threat range works on it, 13-20 is right.

[Diyon]

If the +1 crit threat range works on it, 13-20 is right.

I was under the impression that the +crit range is applied after IC. At least that's how I understood kensai III to work.

[Boromirs]

I was under the impression that the +crit range is applied after IC. At least that's how I understood kensai III to work.

I was under the same impression. But I think it applies the +crit range to the weapon and then the IC. Because as per description it makes the weapon itself increase in +crit range... well if it works like this it's probably not WAI, or is it? Who knows? It is an epic destiny feat and tier 6 at that. So if a basic feat like improve critical doubles the weapons range then working like above may not be out of the question....

[Diyon]

I was under the same impression. But I think it applies the +crit range to the weapon and then the IC. Because as per description it makes the weapon itself increase in +crit range... well if it works like this it's probably not WAI, or is it? Who knows? It is an epic destiny feat and tier 6 at that. So if a basic feat like improve critical doubles the weapons range then working like above may not be out of the question....

Fair enough, can anyone currently test what this ability is doing as of now, WAI or otherwise?

[Tiamas]

13-20 works with your assumptions:

18-20 base
15-20 with improved crit
14-20 with improved crit + kensai III
13-20 with improved crit + kensai III + Dreadnought thingy

[LeLoric]

Sireth is pretty nice big issue is it barely starts to bypass the esos with maxed out dreadnaught/kensai and much of it's dmg is situational (lightning is not very good in the demonweb.) Which as of now is where most maxed out dreadnaught melees will be a good portion of their time.

Then comes the whole issue of having to spec yourself for bludgeon. As such if you have to swap weapons (for dr breaking purposes etc) you have a serious downgrade.

The weapon does look to be good for acrobat/dreadnaught builds with druid splash for shillelagh but outside of that and some other similar obscure builds it is a situational yet unwieldy weapon feat wise.

[Boromirs]

Sireth is pretty nice big issue is it barely starts to bypass the esos with maxed out dreadnaught/kensai and much of it's dmg is situational (lightning is not very good in the demonweb.) Which as of now is where most maxed out dreadnaught melees will be a good portion of their time.

Then comes the whole issue of having to spec yourself for bludgeon. As such if you have to swap weapons (for dr breaking purposes etc) you have a serious downgrade.

The weapon does look to be good for acrobat/dreadnaught builds with druid splash for shillelagh but outside of that and some other similar obscure builds it is a situational yet unwieldy weapon feat wise.

Actually I don't believe you need to spec for bludgeon. You just spec for slash, since the weapon is both pierce/slash type. Someone needs to confirm that.

[Diyon]

Sireth is pretty nice big issue is it barely starts to bypass the esos with maxed out dreadnaught/kensai and much of it's dmg is situational (lightning is not very good in the demonweb.) Which as of now is where most maxed out dreadnaught melees will be a good portion of their time.

Then comes the whole issue of having to spec yourself for bludgeon. As such if you have to swap weapons (for dr breaking purposes etc) you have a serious downgrade.

The weapon does look to be good for acrobat/dreadnaught builds with druid splash for shillelagh but outside of that and some other similar obscure builds it is a situational yet unwieldy weapon feat wise.

I'd argue that the lightning damage is still pretty useful in the Demonweb. The demonweb has a lot of drow, souls of stuff, spiders, more spiders, draegoloth and such that aren't immune to lightning. Can't remember if bebeliths are or not but I don't think they are.

[LeLoric]

Actually I don't believe you need to spec for bludgeon. You just spec for slash, since the weapon is both pierce/slash type. Someone needs to confirm that.

It works off the actual weapon type not the type of dmg it does. Same goes for rahls might, and the titan qstaff. The weapon type is listed right under its name as a qstaff.

If your theory were correct this would have some real issues as it only does light dmg.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Celestia,_Brightest_Star_of_Day

[LeLoric]

I'd argue that the lightning damage is still pretty useful in the Demonweb. The demonweb has a lot of drow, souls of stuff, spiders, more spiders, draegoloth and such that aren't immune to lightning. Can't remember if bebeliths are or not but I don't think they are.

Still its situational like I said and it barely surpasses the esos on one specific traditional thf build and again only situationally.

Bebeliths have at least resistance to electricity if not immunity and pretty sure the draegloths have resistance also.

[PopeJual]

P.S. It breaks DR with a Artificer.

(referring to Sireth the new slashing/piercing/not bludgeoning quarterstaff)

So does a Silver Flame club.

That said, this is the most interesting of the weapons so far as far as I'm concerned. It's not enough to make me farm the raid, but I'll consider looting it if I pull it on the right character.

[Ausdoerrt]

"With this drill I shall pierce the heavens"

Fixed. :P

Looks like something my acrobat would like.

[Boromirs]

Still its situational like I said and it barely surpasses the esos on one specific traditional thf build and again only situationally.

Bebeliths have at least resistance to electricity if not immunity and pretty sure the draegloths have resistance also.

I don't think you understand, barely surpassing the eSoS is a MEGA HUGE achievement. Albeit this is only for a THF user who's maxed out the Legendary Dreadnought Line and who's probably a barb or kensai... Furthermore, although you may argue that Sireh is situational I can counter argue that stuff with Fort will favor Sireh more then the eSoS. Lightning damages are probably the most all inclusive effects short of good/force stuff. For instance, I would not call my LitII khopeshes (back in the day before the TWF nerf) "situational" as I was using them as my main weapons until I made some epic chaos blades (and even then Lit II's were just a smidgen behind in damage).

[Boromirs]

(referring to Sireth the new slashing/piercing/not bludgeoning quarterstaff)

So does a Silver Flame club.

That said, this is the most interesting of the weapons so far as far as I'm concerned. It's not enough to make me farm the raid, but I'll consider looting it if I pull it on the right character.

I don't see why people wouldn't outright use this over the eSoS. Calculations aside you get a 13-20 crit range with it, 12-20 as a Kensai. If confirmed, it would under these conditions equal the eSoS before the extra frills in damage.

[LeLoric]

(referring to Sireth the new slashing/piercing/not bludgeoning quarterstaff)

So does a Silver Flame club.

That said, this is the most interesting of the weapons so far as far as I'm concerned. It's not enough to make me farm the raid, but I'll consider looting it if I pull it on the right character.

Morhn is by far the best of the new items, It literally is the new esos although in one handed form.

Numbers here:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=383462

[Boromirs]

Morhn is by far the best of the new items, It literally is the new esos although in one handed form.

Numbers here:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=383462

http://rebloggingdonk.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/shocked-cat-211212.jpg

Incredible... thats completely nuts?! I'm just quickly running the numbers through my head and it's BETTER then wielding 2 Epic Antique Greataxes, even with the extra damage for wielding twohanded.

[Arkat]

If the +1 crit threat range works on it, 13-20 is right.

No




I was under the impression that the +crit range is applied after IC. At least that's how I understood kensai III to work.

Yes

[LeLoric]

I don't see why people wouldn't outright use this over the eSoS. Calculations aside you get a 13-20 crit range with it, 12-20 as a Kensai. If confirmed, it would under these conditions equal the eSoS before the extra frills in damage.

This is so far from the truth its laughable kinda like posting fake numbers for a greataxe. Assuming imp crit for each hit on 2 or greater.

Main attack no glancing:

esos; .65*(2.5*7+10+x)+(.3*3)*(2.5*7+10+x+10);

Simply 51.625 + 1.55 x

sireth; .55*(2.5*5.5+7+x)+.4*(2*(2.5*5.5+7+x+10));

Simply 36.0125 + 1.35 x

x=additional dmg mod.

So with an extra dmg mod of 0 esos is way ahead and only gets wirse the more str/gear/buffs you add.

Esos gets more per glancing blow too.

Add in the additional effects to sireth and it starts to get close although high dmg mods still favor esos.

sireth; .55*(2.5*5.5+7+x)+.4*(2*(2.5*5.5+7+x+10))+.95*(10. 5+0.15e-1*610+4.5);

58.95500 + 1.35 x

So sireth starts out slightly ahead but is surpassed by esos at an x value of 37 (most any endgame thf build should have twice this)

Almost any modification to the equations helps esos.

Extra crits on 19-20 all benefit esos, Glancing blows benefit esos, Kensai expanded crit range benefits esos, Extra 1[w] benefits esos.

[Boromirs]

This is so far from the truth its laughable kinda like posting fake numbers for a greataxe. Assuming imp crit for each hit on 2 or greater.

Main attack no glancing:

esos; .65*(2.5*7+10+x)+(.3*3)*(2.5*7+10+x+10);

Simply 51.625 + 1.55 x

sireth; .55*(2.5*5.5+7+x)+.4*(2*(2.5*5.5+7+x+10));

Simply 36.0125 + 1.35 x

x=additional dmg mod.

So with an extra dmg mod of 0 esos is way ahead and only gets wirse the more str/gear/buffs you add.

Esos gets more per glancing blow too.

Add in the additional effects to sireth and it starts to get close although high dmg mods still favor esos.

sireth; .55*(2.5*5.5+7+x)+.4*(2*(2.5*5.5+7+x+10))+.95*(10. 5+0.15e-1*610+4.5);

58.95500 + 1.35 x

So sireth starts out slightly ahead but is surpassed by esos at an x value of 37 (most any endgame thf build should have this)

Almopst any modification to the equations helps esos.

Extra crits on 19-20 all benefit esos, Glancing blows benefit esos. Kensai expanded crit range benefits esos.

But can you have 2 of the same relic weapons at the same time? That wouldn't be very Relicy?

[Nitesco]

I was just looking at this on my Bard who has OC and thought it was like a mini-SOS greatclub.

http://itemwiki.cubicleninja.com/images/ShowImage.aspx?itemID=1921&thumbnail=0

http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Bonesplitter_%28weapon%29

Would Blunt Trama and OC stack for a x4 multiplier on a 19-20?

[LeLoric]

But can you have 2 of the same relic weapons at the same time? That wouldn't be very Relicy?

If you are referencing Morhn it is not exclusive so yes you can have two. While i understand your concern for maintaining the relic status you already have to suspend belief knowing that joe next to you also has the unique legendary weapon you do.

[SealedInSong]

Can any of you forum veterans weigh in on the maximum possible DPS with Sireth from an acrobat perspective?

From cursory examination, it appears that the following would be required:

Splash of druid (one level at least) for Shillelaugh
18 acrobat (hopefully tier III adds more alacrity)
IC: bludgeoning
Pulverizer from Dreadnought

Alternatively, Grandmaster of Flowers martial enhancement was cited. Perhaps that can be twisted in? In that case, 1/1/18 druid/monk/acrobat would be required for you to be a centered acrobatic dreadnought.

EDIT: rolled a druid and I see now that it has a five minute base duration which should be sufficient for a level 1 splash.
Also, does anyone know if Shillelaugh is a permanent (until rest or death) weapon enhancement, or does it have a duration? I couldn't find this info on DDOwiki.

[SealedInSong]

EDIT: I got off my lazy butt and rolled a druid and now know that the oath doesn't apply to weapons except for runearms. Nevermind.

Also, does the steel property of Sireth break the druid oath?

I know that they can use scimitars which are clearly not wood but... yeah. I'm unfamiliar with druid nuances at the moment. Thanks.

[Boromirs]

The problem with it though is that Morhn can't bypass DR for jack. If it had good on it (like a good paladin weapon should) then it would be a perfect weapon. Perhaps you can add something to it through the crafting system other then making sets... but as of now it's really not that that useful solely because it can't bypass DR. Great for smaller mobs though!

[PopeJual]

Can any of you forum veterans weigh in on the maximum possible DPS with Sireth from an acrobat perspective?

From cursory examination, it appears that the following would be required:

Splash of druid (one level at least) for Shillelaugh
18 acrobat (hopefully tier III adds more alacrity)
IC: bludgeoning
Pulverizer from Dreadnought

Alternatively, Grandmaster of Flowers martial enhancement was cited. Perhaps that can be twisted in? In that case, 1/1/18 druid/monk/acrobat would be required for you to be a centered acrobatic dreadnought.

Also, does anyone know if Shillelaugh is a permanent (until rest or death) weapon enhancement, or does it have a duration? I couldn't find this info on DDOwiki.

Sireth isn't Bludgeoning. It's Piercing and Slashing.

[Boromirs]

Sireth isn't Bludgeoning. It's Piercing and Slashing.

No, its bludgeoning for purposes of IC due to it being a quarterstaff.

[LeLoric]

Sireth isn't Bludgeoning. It's Piercing and Slashing.

It is still a bludgeoning weapon for purposes of feats/enhancements. Rahls might and shining crescents also fall in this boat. The only thing to consider is the weapon type always listed right under the name and for sireths example it is a quarterstaff.

If you check your feats taken when you take a slashing/bludgeoning/whatever type of feat like improved crit it always expands to show the subest of items that fall in that category and bludgeon includes quarterstaff so all quarterstaffs are bludgeoning regardless of the actual dmg they do. The only thing the listed dmg types further down on the description are for is dr bypassing.

[Boromirs]

It is still a bludgeoning weapon for purposes of feats/enhancements. Rahls might and shining crescents also fall in this boat. The only thing to consider is the weapon type always listed right under the name and for sireths example it is a quarterstaff.

If you check your feats taken when you take a slashing/bludgeoning/whatever type of feat like improved crit it always expands to show the subest of items that fall in that category and bludgeon includes quarterstaff so all quarterstaffs are bludgeoning regardless of the actual dmg they do. The only thing the listed dmg types further down on the description are for is dr bypassing.

In the hands of a proper acro/monk/ED twist build I think it can be superior to the eSoS in all situations.

[LeLoric]

In the hands of a proper acro/monk/ED twist build I think it can be superior to the eSoS in all situations.

Of course the esos is horrible in the hands of an acrobat/monk twist.

An acro monk build will never bypass an esos wielding barb/kensai though in terms of pure dps though with this weapon.

[Diyon]

EDIT: I got off my lazy butt and rolled a druid and now know that the oath doesn't apply to weapons except for runearms. Nevermind.

Also, does the steel property of Sireth break the druid oath?

I know that they can use scimitars which are clearly not wood but... yeah. I'm unfamiliar with druid nuances at the moment. Thanks.

No but good catch, you can't use Shillelagh with it since it's steel.

[srxmk2]

Hey I suspect the LD destiny the critical range increase is applied before improved critical imo. In beta my monk/acrobat used the village staff got a critical range of (17-20X3). The staff itself is 19-20X3(with impact already).

Also for 12monk/6acrobat/2fighter, you will get 10% attack speed from acrobat; 5W pretty base damage; 7.5%doublestrike (10.5% with epic destiny buff) and 12.5% extra attack speed (not stackable with haste), OR some pretty defence plus +1 critical multiplier at 19-20. This might not be comparable with a fully geared barb, but I don't think it is uncomparable with a kensai III

[SealedInSong]

No but good catch, you can't use Shillelagh with it since it's steel.

Ahhh. This is why I come to the experts.

So, acrodruids could increase the base damage of such notable staves as Stout Oak Walking Stick, Breeze, Luminous Truth, Rahl's Might and Souleater but not Staff of the Shadow (adamantine), Dreamspitter (crystal), Sireth (steel), Staff of Nat Gann (silver), alchemical staves (steel), and greensteel staves (steel).

Kind of disappointing but I guess I'm always a proponent of flavor.

[Boromirs]

It's really too darn bad they had to fiddle with the crits. The problem here is scaling, D&D was never meant to be used where people can do 100000 damage and have +10000 mod to damage. The eSoS isn't a better weapon if it weren't for that small little variable to the side of damage,regarding crit. In that case this game has become very boring... maybe it's time to find another. Oh well.

[SealedInSong]

Of course the esos is horrible in the hands of an acrobat/monk twist.

An acro monk build will never bypass an esos wielding barb/kensai though in terms of pure dps though with this weapon.

Perhaps briefly while they don't have aggro? :]

How about my original question, however? What do you veterans recommend in terms of min-maxing an acrobat's DPS with Sireth?

Possible avenues for min-maxed DPS Sireth-wielding acrobat discounting Shillelaugh now thanks to insight from Diyon:

[Assuming enemy blindness and/or good aggro management]
Deadly shadows capstone (14d6 sneak attack)
IC: bludgeon
T6 Dreadnought: Pulverizer
T1 Grandmaster twist: Improved Martial Arts ("+0.5[W] to attacks you make while centered")
T2 Grandmaster twist: Hail of Blows (+3% doublestrike for melee)

Questions here: does Improved Martial Arts require a level of monk or monk dilettante or... just the standard requirements for remaining centered as a monk?
Any recommendations on the third twist? Some of the Fury of the Wild ones look interesting, such as T3 Malicious Weapons ("+[3|6|9]% chance to trigger weapon effects with glancing blows").

I play a 13/6/1 acrobat/kensei/monk with a respectable sustained stunning blow DC of 49 (= 10 base +20 strength modifier +10 stunning weapon/dun'Robar seal +2 T2 Fighter generic enhancement +1 kensei I +6 T1R3 Dreadnought legendary tactics); (Note: strength modifier = 18 base +3 tome +5 level up +2 insightful +1 exceptional +7 enhancement +2 fire stance +5 six tiers Dreadnought +2 half-orc racial enhancement +2 fighter class enhancement +2 rage +2 single stack madstone = 50 strength or +20 ability modifier). It lands almost every time in Demonweb epic-hard and not so much on epic-elite. The use of Titan gloves and double madstone can increase the DC by 4.

The ability to reliably stun an opponent every 15 seconds with Sireth (and a +10 stunning Seal of dun'Robar) in addition to some of the enhanced-damage-to-helpless destiny features of Dreadnought could make for some very potent DPS/CC.

Barbarians are fun but I'd much rather have my acrobat build in a general quest (not a whack-a-boss raid like VoD) for DPS and versatility than a barbarian.

[Cordovan]

I take it all back! Sireth can BEAT the eSoS. OMG.

http://ddowiki.com/images/Sireth.JPG

I think probably fleshed out the weapon can have a crit range of 13-20?!!?

P.S. It breaks DR with a Artificer.

suhweet.

[Boromirs]

suhweet.

I know right? But why the heck do these number crunchers have to come in and just burst every bubble... I hate the eSoS, it just ruined the game. Period.

Gawd, I just went in game and tried to trash my eSoS... I couldn't do it....

[noinfo]

I know right? But why the heck do these number crunchers have to come in and just burst every bubble... I hate the eSoS, it just ruined the game. Period.

Then stop posting thread such as xyz > eSOS

It's ok to be excited about a new weapon without it having to be better in pure dps then the eSOS etc.

[Boromirs]

Then stop posting thread such as xyz > eSOS

It's ok to be excited about a new weapon without it having to be better in pure dps then the eSOS etc.

Heres the problem though. Every weapon that takes any kind of grind will be compared to the eSoS, it's the gold standard... because you sit there in a ,albeit very enjoyable/cool art/cool monsters, 3 hour raid and say well do I want to do this again and again to get that one weapon.... or do I just keep using the best weapon in the game...which I already own? I mean after I get cleaver or sireth or whatever when will I ever use it? When I want to go lower in my kill score? When I'm trying to pull my punches so the less geared people can get some shots in?

It's really eSoS and it's horrendous scaling crit power that is the problem. It just kills the desire to acquire other weapons. Really the ONLY time you would switch out weapons would be on monsters with higher then 0% fort...which would be the eAG... and this is in rare instances or raid bosses where you can't continuously keep fort down to 0%

[sirgog]

Heres the problem though. Every weapon that takes any kind of grind will be compared to the eSoS, it's the gold standard... because you sit there in a ,albeit very enjoyable/cool art/cool monsters, 3 hour raid and say well do I want to do this again and again to get that one weapon.... or do I just keep using the best weapon in the game...which I already own? I mean after I get cleaver or sireth or whatever when will I ever use it? When I want to go lower in my kill score? When I'm trying to pull my punches so the less geared people can get some shots in?

It's really eSoS and it's horrendous scaling crit power that is the problem. It just kills the desire to acquire other weapons. Really the ONLY time you would switch out weapons would be on monsters with higher then 0% fort...which would be the eAG... and this is in rare instances or raid bosses where you can't continuously keep fort down to 0%

eSOS is not nearly that good. 25 DR and it is way behind other weapons, and even when it works, it's only a few percent ahead. Unbalanced yes, genuinely broken no.

The only weapon in recent history that absolutely, positively blew everything else out of the water for a large amount of the game was a medium or high crit profile Nightmare weapon. Before that the last weapon that was genuinely broken was the pre-nerf Wounding of Puncturing combo.

[Ayseifn]

eSOS is not nearly that good. 25 DR and it is way behind other weapons, and even when it works, it's only a few percent ahead. Unbalanced yes, genuinely broken no.

The only weapon in recent history that absolutely, positively blew everything else out of the water for a large amount of the game was a medium or high crit profile Nightmare weapon. Before that the last weapon that was genuinely broken was the pre-nerf Wounding of Puncturing combo.
I want my woo woo sticks back.

[danzig138]

So I ask, wheres the 3x crit multiplier of a spear?
One night, as the drunken spear wandered into a dark alley to relieve itself, a stealthy maul crept up from behind, struck the spear, scoring a lucky hit, and quickly stole the spear's *3 multiplier. It then fled down the alley, cackling with mad glee.

[Qezuzu]

Does it have a cool model?

Even if it's 5% or whatever behind some other weapon, it should be used for the model.

Man I can't wait to run the raid again.

Also, are people taking into account that eSoS has a x3 multiplier, and this spear has a x2? I can't be assed to look at any calculations, but that seems important.

[Jay203]

meh, i hate the featherfalling they put on it
just like that house c rocket boots... >_>

[Qezuzu]

I think probably fleshed out the weapon can have a crit range of 13-20?!!?

A discovery that warrants additional punctuation, I see.

[sirgog]

meh, i hate the featherfalling they put on it
just like that house c rocket boots... >_>

This. Even if it makes thematic sense.

FF just gets so annoying at times.

[SealedInSong]

Lightning Mace Melee Attack: On Hit: 100 Electrical damage. On Critical: Gain +15% enhancement bonus to melee doublestrike for 6 seconds. On Vorpal: 10d100 Electrical damage. Requires a club, greatclub, mace, morningstar, or quarterstaff to be equipped in your main hand.

Moar lightninggg

[Alintalkin]

Perhaps briefly while they don't have aggro? :]

How about my original question, however? What do you veterans recommend in terms of min-maxing an acrobat's DPS with Sireth?

Possible avenues for min-maxed DPS Sireth-wielding acrobat discounting Shillelaugh now thanks to insight from Diyon:

[Assuming enemy blindness and/or good aggro management]
Deadly shadows capstone (14d6 sneak attack)
IC: bludgeon
T6 Dreadnought: Pulverizer
T1 Grandmaster twist: Improved Martial Arts ("+0.5[W] to attacks you make while centered")
T2 Grandmaster twist: Hail of Blows (+3% doublestrike for melee)

Questions here: does Improved Martial Arts require a level of monk or monk dilettante or... just the standard requirements for remaining centered as a monk?
Any recommendations on the third twist? Some of the Fury of the Wild ones look interesting, such as T3 Malicious Weapons ("+[3|6|9]% chance to trigger weapon effects with glancing blows").

I play a 13/6/1 acrobat/kensei/monk with a respectable sustained stunning blow DC of 49 (= 10 base +20 strength modifier +10 stunning weapon/dun'Robar seal +2 T2 Fighter generic enhancement +1 kensei I +6 T1R3 Dreadnought legendary tactics); (Note: strength modifier = 18 base +3 tome +5 level up +2 insightful +1 exceptional +7 enhancement +2 fire stance +5 six tiers Dreadnought +2 half-orc racial enhancement +2 fighter class enhancement +2 rage +2 single stack madstone = 50 strength or +20 ability modifier). It lands almost every time in Demonweb epic-hard and not so much on epic-elite. The use of Titan gloves and double madstone can increase the DC by 4.

The ability to reliably stun an opponent every 15 seconds with Sireth (and a +10 stunning Seal of dun'Robar) in addition to some of the enhanced-damage-to-helpless destiny features of Dreadnought could make for some very potent DPS/CC.

Barbarians are fun but I'd much rather have my acrobat build in a general quest (not a whack-a-boss raid like VoD) for DPS and versatility than a barbarian.

For third twist I would say possibly grim precision (shadowdancer) for 15% fort bypass, might not be useful in every situation but good for raiding

Edit: or perhaps if you really need to hit technician (shadow dancer): +6 to hit when flanking, with the added bonus of +6 search/DD/spot/OL, but I still think that grim precision is loads better

[sirgog]

Lightning Mace Melee Attack: On Hit: 100 Electrical damage. On Critical: Gain +15% enhancement bonus to melee doublestrike for 6 seconds. On Vorpal: 10d100 Electrical damage. Requires a club, greatclub, mace, morningstar, or quarterstaff to be equipped in your main hand.

Moar lightninggg

Because in a Demon dominated endgame, Moar Lightninggg! is exactly what we need.


(Crit proc rocks though if it works as stated)

[SealedInSong]

For third twist I would say possibly grim precision (shadowdancer) for 15% fort bypass, might not be useful in every situation but good for raiding

Great idea, thanks.

[SealedInSong]

Because in a Demon dominated endgame, Moar Lightninggg! is exactly what we need.
(Crit proc rocks though if it works as stated)


I'd argue that the lightning damage is still pretty useful in the Demonweb. The demonweb has a lot of drow, souls of stuff, spiders, more spiders, draegoloth and such that aren't immune to lightning. Can't remember if bebeliths are or not but I don't think they are.

There are lots of lightning-susceptible monsters in the Demonweb and still lots of non-demon content out there. It's a nice ability even if just for the doublestrike buff.

[Wraith_Sarevok]

Because in a Demon dominated endgame, Moar Lightninggg! is exactly what we need.


(Crit proc rocks though if it works as stated)

12 second cooldown and hits only 1 target.

I wouldn't waste my APs on it even if I WAS specced to use bludgeoning weapons. Advancing Blows does way more than those 3 worthless elemental abilities.

[SealedInSong]

This. Even if it makes thematic sense.

FF just gets so annoying at times.

The underwater action on Tinah is particularly dreadful. Enchantment bonuses being taken up by utility mods that I want toggled OFF most of the time on a relic weapon of a weapon class with limited love? Okay Turbine. Go back to nerfing FoM :[

[DevHead]

I will change my HOrc Earth Stance q-staff user (18 monk/2 ftr soon to be Leg Dread) into Lawful Good...just for this weapon.

[alexp80]

Of course the esos is horrible in the hands of an acrobat/monk twist.

An acro monk build will never bypass an esos wielding barb/kensai though in terms of pure dps though with this weapon.

also roll up a toon around a single situational weapon is a real bad choice.

/not impressed.

To make good use of this weapon you have to gimp yourself

[DevHead]

also roll up a toon around a single situational weapon is a real bad choice.

/not impressed.

To make good use of this weapon you have to gimp yourself

I don't agree with you there; my horc light monk only uses q-staves (yes, really) in earth stance and he's a total beast. I didn't roll him around a single weapon, though; on that point, I agree with you.

[LeLoric]

12 second cooldown and hits only 1 target.

I wouldn't waste my APs on it even if I WAS specced to use bludgeoning weapons. Advancing Blows does way more than those 3 worthless elemental abilities.

I would take that one if I primarily used Sireth mainly for the doublestrike. 15% double strike is a huge dps bonus and you'll get it upwards of 40% of the time. The lightning dmg is secondary here.

Advancing blows is awesome but its not an either or situation I have found I either take one of these or a str bonus and any of them are by far better than +1 str.

These abilities are much better on twf than thf by far as you get multiple procs off each use.

[TreknaQudane]

Because in a Demon dominated endgame, Moar Lightninggg! is exactly what we need.


(Crit proc rocks though if it works as stated)

For what it's worth the queen demon of the... demonweb ... is actually an aberration in the raid.

[Cetus]

I'm not really impressed with that quarterstaff from a pure damage dealers perspective.

An esos swinging barb or fighter will still dominate, if you're concerned with DR breaking you always got the red slot to play with, not to mention the fact that in order to grab pulverizer thats 2 destiny points that the Esos user has to play with elsewhere, which, is probably translating into a source of dmg.

[Moltier]

In the hands of a proper acro/monk/ED twist build I think it can be superior to the eSoS in all situations.

And in the hand of a barbarian, since almost all FB gives is equal for the staff, plus the staff have a slightly faster attack speed. But of course you have to be good, and only vs non electric resist/immune mobs. :)

In the hand of a kensei, the SoS is almost always better, since kensei gives crit range, seeker which both benefits the sos more.

[Matuse]

The underwater action on Tinah is particularly dreadful. Enchantment bonuses being taken up by utility mods that I want toggled OFF most of the time

Just curious, but under what circumstances are you benefited by having underwater action turned off?

[Diyon]

The underwater action on Tinah is particularly dreadful. Enchantment bonuses being taken up by utility mods that I want toggled OFF most of the time on a relic weapon of a weapon class with limited love? Okay Turbine. Go back to nerfing FoM :[

Why would you want to turn this off? Also, it's almost certainly not "taking up" enchantment bonuses. It's just thrown on there for flavor, regardless of the other stuff. Taking away UA they wouldn't put something else there, you'd just not have free UA anymore.

[voodoogroves]

I want my woo woo sticks back.

Amen

[Alintalkin]

As a bit of news, pulverizer goes into effect BEFORE improved critical, as I got a few Quaterstaves to crit on a 17 (with improved crit normally it is 19-20, without it just 20) this is with just auto attacking, nothing else increasing the range besides improved crit and pulverizer. I even got my stout Oak Walking stick to state that it has a range of 17-20 when hovering over it, though I have not been able to show other quaterstaves having the improved range while examining. However they do have it from my tests. I will join an image uploading site and show you the screen shot of the stout oak walking stick having a range of 17-20.

I sincerly hope that this is not a bug, but actually a feature, because unlike with the fighter kensai II this is a tier 6 epic destiny ability whose only job is to increase crit range, as a thing that is suppose to be on the level of epic moments, it is very fitting that its effect is applied before the doubling effect of improved critical.

I will be back with the screen shot in probably 10-15 minutes

edit: here http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/r576/alintalkin/ScreenShot00006.jpg
edit 2: that didn't show up for me so here again in case it doesn't show up properly for you either http://s1172.photobucket.com/albums/r576/alintalkin/?action=view&current=ScreenShot00006.jpg
edit3: got first one to work

[Boromirs]

As a bit of news, pulverizer goes into effect BEFORE improved critical, as I got a few Quaterstaves to crit on a 17 (with improved crit normally it is 19-20, without it just 20) this is with just auto attacking, nothing else increasing the range besides improved crit and pulverizer. I even got my stout Oak Walking stick to state that it has a range of 17-20 when hovering over it, though I have not been able to show other quaterstaves having the improved range while examining. However they do have it from my tests. I will join an image uploading site and show you the screen shot of the stout oak walking stick having a range of 17-20.

I sincerly hope that this is not a bug, but actually a feature, because unlike with the fighter kensai II this is a tier 6 epic destiny ability whose only job is to increase crit range, as a thing that is suppose to be on the level of epic moments, it is very fitting that its effect is applied before the doubling effect of improved critical.

I will be back with the screen shot in probably 10-15 minutes

edit: here http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/r576/alintalkin/ScreenShot00006.jpg
edit 2: that didn't show up for me so here again in case it doesn't show up properly for you either http://s1172.photobucket.com/albums/r576/alintalkin/?action=view&current=ScreenShot00006.jpg
edit3: got first one to work

Yeh so it doubles the crit range of the feat along with everything else.jeebus morhn is a monster!!!

[Diyon]

As a bit of news, pulverizer goes into effect BEFORE improved critical, as I got a few Quaterstaves to crit on a 17 (with improved crit normally it is 19-20, without it just 20) this is with just auto attacking, nothing else increasing the range besides improved crit and pulverizer. I even got my stout Oak Walking stick to state that it has a range of 17-20 when hovering over it, though I have not been able to show other quaterstaves having the improved range while examining. However they do have it from my tests. I will join an image uploading site and show you the screen shot of the stout oak walking stick having a range of 17-20.

I sincerly hope that this is not a bug, but actually a feature, because unlike with the fighter kensai II this is a tier 6 epic destiny ability whose only job is to increase crit range, as a thing that is suppose to be on the level of epic moments, it is very fitting that its effect is applied before the doubling effect of improved critical.

I will be back with the screen shot in probably 10-15 minutes

edit: here http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/r576/alintalkin/ScreenShot00006.jpg
edit 2: that didn't show up for me so here again in case it doesn't show up properly for you either http://s1172.photobucket.com/albums/r576/alintalkin/?action=view&current=ScreenShot00006.jpg
edit3: got first one to work

This needs to be confirmed whether it works with Sireth or not. If so, awesomeness!!!! If not, then I'll have to run my acrobats numbers again against the Stout Oak (the numbers I compared showed a difference of over 15 per hit on average, favoring Sireth, but if Pulverizer doesn't work at all on it then I gave it too much in the calcs and either way I gave the Stout Oak too little).

[SealedInSong]

Why would you want to turn this off? Also, it's almost certainly not "taking up" enchantment bonuses. It's just thrown on there for flavor, regardless of the other stuff. Taking away UA they wouldn't put something else there, you'd just not have free UA anymore.


Just curious, but under what circumstances are you benefited by having underwater action turned off?

The part about not desiring a permanent toggle was in reference to LeLoric et al's irritation with Sireth having featherfall, an effect I often find very irritating (slow fall, air savant featherfall).

I am always a proponent of flavor but when greatswords or long bows can get some raw, ridiculous DPS, and longswords have been getting things like: improved paralyzing+featherfall, or greater dragon bane+underwater action. Not necessarily bad, but kind of frustrating in a game that rapidly becomes painful if you can't keep up with the power creep. I'd honestly rather have cold touch than underwater action. I don't even remember the last time I bothered to use UWA--Tempest's Spine? Even in Sleeping Dust's entrance I just chug a haste pot and my breath never runs out.

So, again, I personally love flavor items and builds but I'm sick of seeing axes and greatswords and what-have-you consistently get universally useful mods and then other items in need of love getting "fun" mods. Sireth was a step in the right direction. But still, give us the eThornlord of daggers. Give us the eSoS of dwarven axes. Hell, give me another named kukri that doesn't fit some bizarre niche and just lays down solid damage. But as I said, this would cut into Turbine's FoM-nerf time allocation, which coincidentally doesn't allow me to swing Tinah underwater.

I am not *specifically* miffed about UWA on a longsword.

[Urjak]

...

Whats next? An epic shurriken? :)

...



oh yes PLEASE give us an epic shuriken! ... there isn't even one so far :(

[Jaid314]

oh yes PLEASE give us an epic shuriken! ... there isn't even one so far :(

challenge trade-ins in eveningstar.

of course, it's completely random, and the epic-ness of said epic item is a bit questionable, but... technically it is in fact an epic shuriken. if you just farm the challenges out there for exp, and every so often decide to take a shot at maybe pulling a decent shuriken, you should be fine (but i don't recommend farming the challenges just to get ingredients to get yourself an awesome shuriken, because that's likely to end up with you raging over how much time you spent farming mats only to pull a shuriken with 1 out of 4 abilities being something that you even care about at all; level up all your destinies for fate points while you're at it, imo).

[Jarel_Lonewolf]

A quick note on Sireth (already mentioned on other threads too): Pulverizer doesn't work with it, already tested. I hope it is not WAI but I fear it might be, 'cause it looks like the ability is coded specifically on weapon damage (unlike the various focus/specializaiton/crit feats which are based on weapon type).

[Diyon]

A quick note on Sireth (already mentioned on other threads too): Pulverizer doesn't work with it, already tested. I hope it is not WAI but I fear it might be, 'cause it looks like the ability is coded specifically on weapon damage (unlike the various focus/specializaiton/crit feats which are based on weapon type).

This is what I feared may be the case awhile back, which was why I kept saying someone should confirm it (I haven't been able to because I don't have one).

[ddo.rsmo.pt]

Since now there are at least two (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=384512) sources (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=4585282&postcount=83) referring to this problem, I have updated the Pulverizer entry (http://ddowiki.com/page/Legendary_Dreadnought#Tier_Six) on ddowiki to alert to this problem.

Carry on.

[teh_meh]

Sexy weapon no doubt.

But an "eSOS killer" will kill the eSOS, not result in a 4 page debate about it.

[sandypaws]

Since now there are at least two (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=384512) sources (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=4585282&postcount=83) referring to this problem, I have updated the Pulverizer entry (http://ddowiki.com/page/Legendary_Dreadnought#Tier_Six) on ddowiki to alert to this problem.

Carry on.

Sooo...does this mean the ED ability -would- work with things like the epic silver flame longbow? What other weird items with bludgeoning damage would it work with?

[ddo.rsmo.pt]

Sooo...does this mean the ED ability -would- work with things like the epic silver flame longbow? What other weird items with bludgeoning damage would it work with?

Might be, can't test it atm. If this was coded to simply give the bonus to weapons with bludgeoning damage, sounds like careless programming by someone who doesn't know the items available in-game. I prefer not to believe that option.

Carry on.

[Arkat]

Since now there are at least two (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=384512) sources (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=4585282&postcount=83) referring to this problem, I have updated the Pulverizer entry (http://ddowiki.com/page/Legendary_Dreadnought#Tier_Six) on ddowiki to alert to this problem.

Carry on.

It is also not working with my Drow Maul of the Weapon Master. Perhaps due to its already expanded crit threat range.

I'll post some pics shortly.

[Arkat]

Ok, the plot thickens...

First, here's a pick of my Drow Maul unequipped. The crit threat range is (19-20) like it's supposed to be:

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee191/BlackArkat/DrowMaulUnequipped.jpg



Here's the weird part. This pic is with the Drow Maul equipped. Notice the (17-20) threat range is correct if you only consider I have Improved Crit: Bludgeon. The other threat range (18-20) is correct if you only consider I have the Pulverizer ED enhancement. Neither are correct however! Since I have both, the crit threat range should be (16-20)!

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee191/BlackArkat/DrowMaulEquipped.jpg

[Arkat]

Ok, so I went to the practice dummy on my guild's ship and took a few practice swings. Here's a pic:

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee191/BlackArkat/DrowMaulCrit.jpg

It appears there's just a couple display errors in the second pic in my post above because according to the Combat Log, a roll of a 16 is indeed a critical threat.

Weird.

[Desdemonte]

Mousing over the weapon gives you it's normal crit range- this doesn't change if you have IC. You need to look at your dropdown in your pack to see any adjusted stats for weapons when they're equipped. So other than a display error, not so weird.

[Arkat]

Mousing over the weapon gives you it's normal crit range- this doesn't change if you have IC. You need to look at your dropdown in your pack to see any adjusted stats for weapons when they're equipped. So other than a display error, not so weird.

You missed the part where I circled the crit range in the dropdown in my pack. Look harder at the second pic in this post:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=4731137#post4731137

[Desdemonte]

I guess I misunderstood you. I thought you were looking for the crit range in the mouse-over to change.

[Arkat]

I guess I misunderstood you. I thought you were looking for the crit range in the mouse-over to change.

You did misunderstand me. This is what I was concerned about:



Here's the weird part. This pic is with the Drow Maul equipped. Notice the (17-20) threat range is correct if you only consider I have Improved Crit: Bludgeon. The other threat range (18-20) is correct if you only consider I have the Pulverizer ED enhancement. Neither are correct however! Since I have both, the crit threat range should be (16-20)!

In the picture to which I am referring, the Maul is equipped.

No matter what I moused over (the maul in my toon's hands or the maul in the inventory screen dropdown), the crit threat range was wrong. It should read (16-20) in both!

[LawfulGood]

This is just a display issue of the critical range when hovering over a Sireth. Pulverizer is working as expected. Below is a screenshot of my Kensai II/Ninja Spy I fighter critting the training dummy on a roll of 15, with Pulverizer active.


Since now there are at least two (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=384512) sources (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=4585282&postcount=83) referring to this problem, I have updated the Pulverizer entry (http://ddowiki.com/page/Legendary_Dreadnought#Tier_Six) on ddowiki to alert to this problem.

Carry on.

http://i47.tinypic.com/352kg1k.jpg

[Diyon]

This is just a display issue of the critical range when hovering over a Sireth. Pulverizer is working as expected. Below is a screenshot of my Kensai II/Ninja Spy I fighter critting the training dummy on a roll of 15, with Pulverizer active.





Errrrr, Sireth will crit on a 15 without pulveriser with just Improved critical. Need to show it on a 13.

[Schmoe]

Since now there are at least two (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=384512) sources (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=4585282&postcount=83) referring to this problem, I have updated the Pulverizer entry (http://ddowiki.com/page/Legendary_Dreadnought#Tier_Six) on ddowiki to alert to this problem.

Carry on.

Even though Sireth is classified as a quarterstaff, it is clearly not a bludgeoning weapon, so why would a bludgeoning-only ability affect it?

[Dysmetria]

Even though Sireth is classified as a quarterstaff, it is clearly not a bludgeoning weapon, so why would a bludgeoning-only ability affect it?For the same reason that the improved critical: bludgeoning-only feat affects it. You swing it and fight with it like a bludgeoning weapon, that it does slashing or piercing (or good or lightning or sonic) damage is secondary.

[Svartelric]

For the same reason that the improved critical: bludgeoning-only feat affects it. You swing it and fight with it like a bludgeoning weapon, that it does slashing or piercing (or good or lightning or sonic) damage is secondary.

I think you benefit from IC:Bludgeoning only because it applies to all Quarterstaff, not because Sireth is recognized as a bludgeoning weapon. If you look in your Char Sheet, Feat tab, you'll see you can expand a sub-list from IC:Bludgeoning, where it lists all the weapons it affects.

http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Feat:Improved_Critical:_Bludgeoning_Weapons

[LawfulGood]

You're correct, my counts were off.


Errrrr, Sireth will crit on a 15 without pulveriser with just Improved critical. Need to show it on a 13.

[Arkat]

I think you benefit from IC:Bludgeoning only because it applies to all Quarterstaff, not because Sireth is recognized as a bludgeoning weapon. If you look in your Char Sheet, Feat tab, you'll see you can expand a sub-list from IC:Bludgeoning, where it lists all the weapons it affects.

http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Feat:Improved_Critical:_Bludgeoning_Weapons

This is a correct answer.

[Silverleafeon]

I like the feather fall on it, that might save me a slot ;)

Good to see something competing with the dragon's sword!

[Jarel_Lonewolf]

I think you benefit from IC:Bludgeoning only because it applies to all Quarterstaff, not because Sireth is recognized as a bludgeoning weapon. If you look in your Char Sheet, Feat tab, you'll see you can expand a sub-list from IC:Bludgeoning, where it lists all the weapons it affects.

http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Feat:Improved_Critical:_Bludgeoning_Weapons

And this is EXACTLY the problem. Can't you see t he injustice there? If you like the Sireht (especially if you are a Kensai with a lot of feats and action points to spend) you have to spec on an inferior class of weapons to use it efficiently, but you're still denied a nice ability like the pulverizer. The feats check the weapon type, while the pulverizer check the weapon damage. Having different mechanics is plain silly, here.

[Chette]

If it not functioning with pulverizer is WAI, this is an absolutely horrible design mechanism because it now means that staff users need to spec out for multiple different kinds of weapons. Sireth basically has no home. One of the core abilities of the staff user doesn't work on it, yet as a quarterstaff the weapon specific feats enhancements that the traditional slashing THF builds use don't work with it.

If you want to introduce spears, make a whole new class of weapons and abilities that work with them, otherwise you're just screwing people out of something one way or another.

[Jarel_Lonewolf]

"Sireth has no home"... Might as well put that in my bio! LOL