Intimidate thresholds for MOTU

[Carpone]

According to http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=4556925&postcount=1, epic elite Lord of Blades requires an Intimidate between 105-107. Previously 82 intimidate was required for no-fail. So how do we get there now?

Self-buffed
23 heroic skill ranks
5 epic skill ranks
5 Unyielding Sentinel V
20 Epic Brawn's Spirits
5 Epic Gloves of the Claw
6 CHA skills Green Steel accessory
4 Greater Heroism
2 Good Luck
4 Improved Intimidate
2 Past Life: Berserker's Fury
3 Skill Focus: Intimidate
6 Draconic Incarnation (Tier 1 twist of fate)
6 Stalwart Defender III
9 CHA bonus (28 CHA: 14 base + 3 tome + 7 item + 2 ship/cookie + 2 yugo)
2 Least Dragonmark of Sentinel
4 Deneith Intimidate (requires Least, Lesser and Greater Dragonmarks of Sentinel)
2 Coin Lord Finishing School
2 Bulheaded feat
2 Past Life: Student of the Sword
4 Large guild slot shield
= 116 Intimidate, requiring 7 feats, 8 AP and Human. Non-humans cap at 110 Intimidate, requiring 4 feats and 4 AP. Both require a Fighter past life, Barbarian past life, a level 70 guild and an insane destiny XP grind from Unyielding Sentinel to Draconic Incarnation.

So much for Defender of Siberys intimidate tanks.

[FrozenNova]

We can get Coinlord finishing school in this breakdown for what it's worth.

[Carpone]

We can get Coinlord finishing school in this breakdown for what it's worth.
Added, thanks!

[Chette]

Yes, my guildies ran an EE lob last week and I was shocked to hear their report on the intimidate DC. I did everything within my power to max our the intimidate on my monk-tank, while still maintaining reasonable to-hit and good AC, and can barely scrape 80. I might as well not have any at all with these numbers.

But since her damage mitigation is about half that of the defender tanks. who can get the same dodge as her, but with much higher AC and PRR, I guess she was dead in the water even before this :)

[Faent]

According to http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=4556925&postcount=1, epic elite Lord of Blades requires an Intimidate between 105-107.

That's a bit ridiculous. I could see pushing it up to 90 and maybe even 95. But 105-107 is just stupid.

[morticianjohn]

I also think that 107 intim requirement is a bit too high if you max out on 108 stars aligned. 6 feats, 3 gear slots, a ton of AP, and skill points.... probably not worth it to go through all that trouble....

[Dragaer]

Just another example that they do not understand their own game.

[giggiddy]

LOL This is completely silly. My tank through a lot of work was able to no fail intim epic LOB before the update. I am not going to redo all my feats again so I can intimidate the next titan raid.

This raid will not be run in 6 months from now except by the occasional people looking to make monk handwraps :)

Everything else in MoTU makes the loot **** and easier to acquire.

[sephiroth1084]

This is stupid.

There really isn't much more to say. We shouldn't have to go all-in on Intimidate just to get it to work with enough reliability for it to be worth focusing on. This was the problem with AC that prompted the huge revision to the combat interaction system!

[lugoman]

Large guild slot shield will get another +4, think a bard song can bump it also. Does the epic skill ranks increase intim? Was pretty sure I was at 78 unbuffed before the expansion and am still there now, but I may have moved some items around.

Maybe they want a raid that cant be 100% intim'ed and want people to control their own agro?

[Faent]

Maybe they want a raid that cant be 100% intim'ed and want people to control their own agro?

Maybe they just made up numbers?

[sephiroth1084]

You can add Past Life: Student of the Sword (+2), large guild slot tower shield (+4), Inspire Competence (+2), Bullheaded (+2)...that's 10 more, but I still think the benchmark is ridiculous.

[Carpone]

That's a bit ridiculous. I could see pushing it up to 90 and maybe even 95. But 105-107 is just stupid.
It would have been totally reasonable to increase from 82 to 92 with the +5 available from Unyielding Sentinel V and +5 from epic levels.

What I despise with this change: Only a Human Stalwart Defender III can hit the Intimidate mark. Defender of Siberys III doesn't have the number of feats necessary, nor does the PrE provide Intimidate bonuses. Only the Dragonmark of Sentinel is available to Humans.


You can add Past Life: Student of the Sword (+2), large guild slot tower shield (+4), Inspire Competence (+2), Bullheaded (+2)...that's 10 more, but I still think the benchmark is ridiculous.
I run with so few bards that I could never count on Inspire Confidence. Fatesinger can also provide a single target +8 CHA bonus, I believe. I've added the other two to the list, thanks.

[sephiroth1084]

It would have been totally reasonable to increase from 82 to 92 with the +5 available from Unyielding Sentinel V and +5 from epic levels.

What I despise with this change: Only a Human Stalwart Defender III can hit the Intimidate mark. Defender of Siberys III doesn't have the number of feats necessary, nor does the PrE provide Intimidate bonuses. Only the Dragonmark of Sentinel is available to Humans.Agreed. For one, I really do think that Defender of Siberys should get Intimidate bumps. The PrE was designed before paladins got Intim as a class skill, and now that they have it, it isn't well supported. As it is, SD gains passive DR, a little more AC (or did), and the Intimidate. If the devs want to keep them somewhat differentiated, give DoS +1 Intim per rank, instead of +2. That closes the gap a little at least, though I think it's unnecessary.



I run with so few bards that I could never count on Inspire Confidence. Fatesinger can also provide a single target +8 CHA bonus, I believe. I've added the other two to the list, thanks.
Oh, and that brings up the Epic bard feat, for +4 Cha (+3 I think if it doesn't stack with the old +1 exceptional from ToD rings and the like). That would be another +2, or +1.

[emptysands]

If MOTU CE, the Epic Spider Cult Mask +1 all skills.

[emptysands]

It is (barely) possible on a Human 5Epic/18Paladin/2Monk or 2Fighter. On others if you drop Power Attack and/or Maximise. APs might be tight though, with Paladin Charisma II.

Likely todo less dps and hate tank via Divine Righteousness.



1: Power Attack
1h: Least Dragonmark of Sentinel
3: THF or TWF
6: Maximise
9: IC: Slashing
12: ITHF or ITWF
15: GTHF or GTWF
15M: PL: Barb
16M: Combat Expertise
18: Shield Mastery

21: Improved Shield Mastery
24: Improved Shield Bash or SF:Intimidate



23 heroic skill ranks
5 epic skill ranks
5 Unyielding Sentinel V
20 Epic Brawn's Spirits
5 Epic Gloves of the Claw
6 CHA skills Green Steel accessory
4 Greater Heroism
2 Good Luck
4 Improved Intimidate
6 Draconic Incarnation (Tier 1 twist of fate)
11 CHA bonus (16 +2(tome) +7(item) +1(excp) +2(ship) +2(yugo) = 28 +2(tome) =30+2(Paladin Charisma II) =32)
2 Coin Lord Finishing School
4 Large guild slot shield
1 Epic Spider Mask
2 Past Life: Berserker's Fury (instead of toughness)
3 Skill Focus: Intimidate
2 Least Dragonmark of Sentinel
1 Deneith Intimidation I
=106
Possible Buffs
2 Inspire competence (untyped)
2 Monk (Fire - Light - Fire) (untyped 60sec)
=110


Unlikely buffs
5 Monk (Void - Light - Void) (insight 15 sec)
5 Skill Boost IV (20sec)


Probably switch the dragonmark for this to get the MDB boost.
2 Past Life: Student of the Sword

The biggest issues Paladin tanks have is the CE makes their self-heals less effectively. Note the capstone is replaced by US Tier 4: Purify weapon. On analysis the lack of tactics, really reduce the depth on a Paladin. They should definitely get better intimidate bonuses.

Note: Personally I'd go 2 Monk with Epic Rakshasa Hide for two feats and evasion.

[emptysands]

Self-buffed
23 heroic skill ranks
5 epic skill ranks
5 Unyielding Sentinel V


I've been C&P your numbers, but I'm wondering which ability gives "5 Unyielding Sentinel V".

[sephiroth1084]

The Unyielding Sentinel epic destiny.

[emptysands]

The Unyielding Sentinel epic destiny.

I figured that - but I don't see on ddowiki which ability at tier 5 actually offers an intimidate bonus. I havent really touched my Paladin, so I haven't had a chance to check it myself in game.

Hardened? Ward against evil or Anoint weapon - unlikely?

[sephiroth1084]

Unyielding Sentinel grants +1 intimidate per rank as part of Vigor of Battle (not the stance, but bundled with being granted that).

[emptysands]

Unyielding Sentinel grants +1 intimidate per rank as part of Vigor of Battle (not the stance, but bundled with being granted that).

Thanks. I guess someone should update ddowiki.

[Meowin]

You can add Past Life: Student of the Sword (+2), large guild slot tower shield (+4), Inspire Competence (+2), Bullheaded (+2)...that's 10 more, but I still think the benchmark is ridiculous.

I do agree with people saying that number is ridiculously high. I have a 28pt dwarf fighter that has been S&B plus intimi for about six years now. I invested some time & feats to get high AC, shield block DR, intimidate etc. My thought was always that if one went for AC, intimi etc he should get a reasonable amount of it, even without farming. So putting a max of skill points into that skill, starting at a lowish to mid CHA but using the best item you get your hands on, accepting buffs and sacrificing a feat or two should get your character to being able to intimidate the occasional boss. Now this is epic, and it´s elite so one can expect this to be exceptionally difficult, but this is still ridiculous. having to have 2 past lifes, the large guild slot shield... that´s a joke. Now that being said, let´s look at the next quote:


Just another example that they do not understand their own game.

I´m not entirely sure who is not understanding the game and what to expect from it. RPGs in general have always been about rolling dice to me. One can have an influence on luck by investing in certain skills, feats etc. thus influencing the dice roll. But you still have to roll. And you still always can fail if you are unlucky. However that is not how the common gamer looks at the game. A character that does not succeed 95% at what he´s build towards is considered a fail. Rolling the dice is not considered to be part of the game anymore. Melees missing on rolls of a 3 are gimps, tanks that fail a intimidate check on the boss will not even be accepted for the raid party in the first place. The mage whose CC does not catch everyone on the first try gets noted on this special list.
Is this really the way this game is supposed to be played? It might be, I don´t know. But at this moment I refuse to see it that way. If the dice becomes obsolete in a DnD game, the game itself has failed IMHO.

Another word on <<understanding their own game>>: I´d love to see a video of a dev party run a raid, ToD comes to my mind. I always ask myself if the designer was really aiming for what we have now in the middle part - eleven people standing crowded, whacking away like crazy and one guy running in circles. Doesn´t sound too exciting...

[Ape_Man]

. . . I am not going to redo all my feats again so I can intimidate the next titan raid.

And that's pretty much it, it's just not worth gimping a toon to be able to do. it's like the EVON5 trap DCs when that first came out.

I could see a 10 point increase from old epic considering all the new toys we have to play with but 107 intim is just plain dumb.

[Benfe23]

[/QUOTE]So much for Defender of Siberys intimidate tanks.[/QUOTE]

Lols, that is a very rude thing to say u know. My pure paly tank currently has 102 without any of thsoe garbage feats that u take, for the no fail EE DQ2 intim. He can get 6 more from enhancements for no fail on EE Lob.

Oh and he also happens to hold intim record of 182 without even trying hard (although unsustainable, I admit).

Id like to say so much for stalwart defenders, but I dont want to get into that.

[nivarch]

So much for Defender of Siberys intimidate tanks.

Lols, that is a very rude thing to say u know. My pure paly tank currently has 102 without any of thsoe garbage feats that u take, for the no fail EE DQ2 intim. He can get 6 more from enhancements for no fail on EE Lob.

Oh and he also happens to hold intim record of 182 without even trying hard (although unsustainable, I admit).

Id like to say so much for stalwart defenders, but I dont want to get into that.

Nice necro (and nice useless post giving figures without breakdown to back them up) !

[pelaaja]

http://www.minerwars.com/ForumUploads/20101115002739_181_necropost.png
The image says it all.

[Benfe23]

Nice necro (and nice useless post giving figures without breakdown to back them up) !

Okay, if u want a breakdown ull get it.

23 ranks
20 epic brawns spirits
5 epic claw gloves
6 GS item
6 unyielding sentinel ED
4 GH
2 dragonmark of sentinel
4 deneith intimidation
2 improved intimidate
2 good luck
6 draconic presence
3 medium guild augment slot
12 char modifier
2 coin lord finishing school
5 epic lvls
=102 (I did the maths it seems to add up alright).
And my apologies, looks like I have 6 from enhancements and not 2, so can get only two more from there for EE LoB, rest will have to come from another source. Yugo and bard buffs. so 102 +2 +1 +3= 108 with raid buffs.

And as for the 182:

http://i46.tinypic.com/21bngyh.jpg

its also in the recrods thread: https://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=393078.

[Carpone]

Okay, if u want a breakdown ull get it.

23 ranks
20 epic brawns spirits
5 epic claw gloves
6 GS item
6 unyielding sentinel ED
4 GH
2 dragonmark of sentinel
4 deneith intimidation
2 improved intimidate
2 good luck
6 draconic presence
3 medium guild augment slot
12 char modifier
2 coin lord finishing school
5 epic lvls
=102 (I did the maths it seems to add up alright).
And my apologies, looks like I have 6 from enhancements and not 2, so can get only two more from there for EE LoB, rest will have to come from another source. Yugo and bard buffs. so 102 +2 +1 +3= 108 with raid buffs.
So what's your starting stat distribution+gear? In my model, I used a starting CHA of 14 which I think is already too high. You've got a 12 CHA bonus without using a Yugo pot.

Taking the dragonmark feats means you're trading off DPS feats in order to tank. Not ideal. http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=402161 is the place to follow up.

Hindsight is 20/20. EE LOB is meaningless to do more than once, since the same parts drop on EH which can be completed by a pug. EE DQ is a more realistic benchmark, and 102 isn't too difficult to get for a paladin.