Melee or trap rogue?

[DigitalMus]

I want to make a rogue, i have found a couple builds:
concept: Good damage dealer, decent survivability, and of course able to take care of traps and locks
link: http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2782313&postcount=5

and
concept: Focus on traps, locks, and sneak, relying on repeating crossbows for damage
link: http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=3740265&postcount=735

which one would be most wanted in late game? or is there an ever better build, or is it pure oppinions?

if you had one of each of those rogue's infront of you ready to join your raid, which one would you take?

[ReaperAlexEU]

general consensus is the more dps the better, and the assassin should be better than the mechanic for dps. both if built well should be good at the traps.

really its down to play style, both are viable so which do you think would be more fun?

i have one of each, though i havent taken the assassin to cap as i have a ton of melee's at cap already.

[Havok.cry]

Both are good, assassin generally is higher dps, but mechanic has ranged advantage.

[Thrudh]

Melee rogue can handle 99% of traps in the game.

So no need to choose.

Just max out Spot, Search, Disable, and Open Lock, and get the best gear you can for your level (+10 spot goggles, +10 disable gloves, etc.), and carry heroism potions or a Greater Heroism clickable, and you'll fine at traps even if focus on melee.

If you want repeaters, I'd go artificer.

[Thrudh]

if you had one of each of those rogue's infront of you ready to join your raid, which one would you take?

Either.

[xoowak]

If your goal is to run raids, do the melee. There is no trap that a melee rogue can't get with the appropriate gear, so specializing in traps is a waste, especially since raids don't really have a significant trap components. In my opinion, if you want to do crossbows, roll an artificer, as they are much more desired than mechanic rogues.

Also look at these as some examples of pretty standard melee rogue builds:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=266083
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=295321

[toun]

I just TR'ed out of a repeater rogue / arti past life. My friend was a mostly pure assassin rogue.

First of all, all rogues will be able to get traps. The investment is just skill points every level and having appropriate +search / + disable gear for the level. Even a barbarian with 1 rogue level can do elite streak traps with around INT 14 (she did fail a couple the entire life but maybe she forgot the gear or etc etc).

If you are new, mechanic helps a bit with traps because the gear may be difficult for you to acquire.

Remember enhancements can be respeced every 3 days with just some platinum cost. Even as the first build assassin, you could do mechanic at level 6, and respec to assassin at 12. Hopefully by then you would have picked up enough gear.

Repeater/arti build DPS weakens significantly around level 15. I started using wounding of puncturing or cursespewing/destruction instead so my teammates could kill the stuff faster. Repeater/arti is nice at low level. If you have artificer, I would consider rogue/arti instead of rogue 20 mechanic (that post was written before artificers existed.)

In general TWF assassin will do more DPS. They are somewhat more difficult to gear because to be optimal you have to carry different sets of weapons (main DPS, debuffing, undead beaters and construct bane. At higher levels, devil killers/banishers are important.) That's an entire backpack slot of weapons :) I can't stand not being "efficient" and being lazy when I play thought.

There's a lot of people who just carry one weapon and never switch. I think that's a bit lazy, since most melees have few things to have to deal with compared to spellcasters. If you are new thought, you don't really have a choice so you are excused :)

Whichever you pick, spend a couple of AP points in wand and scroll so your wands of cure wounds heal more. It saves time and money.

[DigitalMus]

okay thanks guys :) sounds like it's gonna be the assassin then. sounds more fun aswell ;)

[Ertay]

if you had one of each of those rogue's infront of you ready to join your raid, which one would you take?

It is a common misconception of newer players (and it is still spread around in the game from time to time), that rogues have to chose whether they want to be "trapmonkeys" or dps. Keep investing in level appropriate gear and level your skill points, and your assassin rogue will be capable of getting just about any trap you can reasonably expect to see while levelling.

Also, don't dump int. A good rogue should start with at least 16, some even go for 18 and take their level up points in int, to increase their assassinate dc. If you are concerned about traps, that might be a viable approach for you, because int will also provide better trap skills.

Repeater rogues have it hard at the moment, because they are outclassed by artificers in just about anything, while they don't bring enough to really set them apart.

[DigitalMus]

Also, don't dump int. A good rogue should start with at least 16

so on my assassin, it would be better to take 8 in wis and cha, and get 16 in int instead? (im using 32 point build, yay for sale)

[varusso]

so on my assassin, it would be better to take 8 in wis and cha, and get 16 in int instead? (im using 32 point build, yay for sale)

INT affects your assassinate DCs (as well as your DD/search, and your reflex if you take insightful reflexes) so as many points as you can put into INT without severely gimping something else, the better off you will be.

I have a first-life assassin rogue that is INT based, with mediocre STR, no GS or raid gear; just AH trash and a couple of crafted minor items. At 20 she had over 500 HP, has yet to meet an elite trap she could not disarm at level, has enough UMD to use heal and raise scrolls, can assassinate anything that isnt immune, and often matches or beats the highest kill count in the group (if I am bothering to try).

Next life I plan to run a similar build, but DEX based finesse. After that I will give a STR-based "beater rogue" a try. BUt I think they will have a hard time comparing to the current one.

I can say this: Not a single one will have to sacrifice traps to swing a sword.

[xveganrox]

so on my assassin, it would be better to take 8 in wis and cha, and get 16 in int instead? (im using 32 point build, yay for sale)

If you're a 32 point build rogue, you'll want:

1) At least 15 in Dexterity (and probably no more than this) so that with a +2 tome you can get the top level TWF feat

2) A decent Con and Str, so that you can be useful in a fight. Strength determines how often you hit and how much damage you do, and Constitution determines how much of a beating you can take, so you'll want to get these as high as possible. You'll want to put all your level ups into Strength as well.

3) Any leftovers going to Int

So a stat block like:

Str: 16
Dex: 15
Con: 16
Int: 12
Wis: 8
Cha: 8

would serve you pretty well. Traps aren't very difficult at all in this game (with the exception of currently broken elites, soon to be fixed), so the only thing an Int of 16 would give you would be a +2 to assassinate DC (a late-game assassin ability).

For trapping (as other have said), keep Spot, Search, Disable Device, and Open Lock maxed out (And Use Magic Device! but that's unrelated) and keep items that you can switch in to deal with traps (for example, gloves of open lock +7) as well as an Intelligence item to switch in when you need that extra boost. If you need more, you can spend AP on skill boosts, have a wizard cast Greater Heroism or Heroism on you, or carry Good Luck items. You don't need to build for traps besides maxing out ranks, though.

[Cap_Man]

If you are new to DDO and rogues then the Mechanic is not a bad choice. But if you have plat or gear waiting then probably go with the Assassin.

If you want to have fun with repeaters then go Artie.

That first link for the Assassin build looks good but is a little dated. Power Attack is not what it used to be and many are dropping it because of the changes in U14. Bluff on the other hand is nice and I would go so far as to say it is a 'must have' on an Assassin.

[Arianrhod]

One thing to consider for any ranged rogue is that no matter what your weapon, most of your DPS is going to be from sneak attacks. So, if you want to actually do any damage with a repeater (or short bow, or whatever), you'll need to stay within sneak attack range. Shooting at things from clear across the room isn't going to take full advantage of the rogue's biggest combat bonus ;)

[PopeJual]

A Rogue who can't get all the traps in an at-level quest on Elite (at least once the DC bugs with Elite have been fixed) is doing it wrong.

A Rogue who can't do disgusting amounts of DPS in combat is doing it wrong.

You don't have to choose between one or the other. Enormous DPS doesn't have to preclude the ability to get traps and vice versa.

My first question is whether you have 32 point builds unlocked since that will make a significant difference in the build points allocations, but after that, my second most important question is what server do you play on? If it's Argonessen, I can mail you shards to make all of the Cannith Crafted trap gear that you'll need on that character. If it's elsewhere, you'll either have to craft your own or you'll have to buy the shards/items on that server.

[JollySwagMan]

For Raid DPS as others have said you'll be wanting an Assassin Rogue.

If it is your first Rogue then I would recommend taking Mechanic up till level 12, the little bit of extra damage from Assassin 1 may be of less benefit than improving your trap ability (reducing your gearing needs/costs). Then switch to Assassin at 12.

Note that Assassinate is bugged currently significantly impairing its usefulness.

Elite traps appear to be bugged out currently anyway so the extra trapskills might not be redundant when applying a standard level of twinkage (Heroism Potions, Foxes Potions, +5 tools, the highest disable/search items you can wear at level)

Thief Acrobats can be fun (albeit less damage), and have an advantage over the other types when it comes to Undead quests (which there are quite a few of in DDO). They also have a bit of a gearing advantage, as there's much less demand for good quarterstaves than TWF-type weapons or Repeating Crossbows. However most Thief Acrobats that I've encountered also include a Monk splash/other multiclassing.

[DigitalMus]

My first question is whether you have 32 point builds unlocked since that will make a significant difference in the build points allocations, but after that, my second most important question is what server do you play on? If it's Argonessen, I can mail you shards to make all of the Cannith Crafted trap gear that you'll need on that character. If it's elsewhere, you'll either have to craft your own or you'll have to buy the shards/items on that server.

i do have 32 point builld, and i could try to make try make my rogue on argonessen, i haven't really gotton into any guilds or other kind of community, and it would be nice to try out different servers

[JollySwagMan]

Note that for crafting, on all the servers except Wayfinder (low population) you should have a good chance of finding folks in the crafting hall who will make shards for you free of charge as long as you provide the essences.

[DigitalMus]

oh and also about race, i guess it's not just "this is better than that" but what are the advantaged to hafling/human?

[LordMond63]

As has been said, it's not an "either/or" proposition. You really can have very good to excellent dps and handle all the traps in the game.

To illustrate this point, just look at how many WIZ/ROG there are running around, usually with an 18/2 split. Because of this multiclasses' high INT score, the stat DC is high and there are plenty of skill points each level to keep Search, Disable and other skills at maximum. Skill enhancement gear is plentiful to the point of overabundance and the cost to keep the bonus at level isn't all that bad.

I have a Drow Assassin and a Warforged Wizard/Rogue, both capped. The Drow does have a slight advantage when it comes to her skill levels, but that's mainly because she has the Tinker's set from Cannith (gives not only +Search but + Exceptional Search and the same for Disable). But the WIZ/ROG can handle Epic traps as well and she brings all of the various Wizardly abilities to the party as well.

I'd say go with the Assassin, though I don't think I'd go Drow. The hit to CON hurts.


oh and also about race, i guess it's not just "this is better than that" but what are the advantaged to hafling/human?

The advantage to humans is easy: the extra Feat.

For halflings....I'm guessing that they get a bonus to starting DEX. It's been so long so I generated a new character that I honestly cannot remember.

[JollySwagMan]

oh and also about race, i guess it's not just "this is better than that" but what are the advantaged to hafling/human?

Human: Extra feat, extra skillpoint per level (thus allowing for lower Int), enhancements for Human Versatility (Human Damage boost can be activated alongside Rogue Haste boost), Adaptability (+1 for up to two different stats), Racial Toughness III (if Con is taken as an Adaptability enhancement), Improved Recovery (Healing Amp). Humans have the most Dragonmark feat options, but nothing that really stands out for a Rogue. I'm fond of the D-Door dragonmark myself, but I hesitate to recommend them compared to other feats one might take.

Main advantage of Human is the feat and high burst DPS.

Halfling: +2 dex at a cost of -2 Str. Weapon Finesse might seem a natural fit here, however take care to not dump Str on a melee build. Even if going Weapon Finesse, try and start with 12 Strength at least. It's generally recommended to not mess with Weapon Finesse even on a Halfling, instead leaving Dex at 17 (including any tomes used) and focusing on Str instead.

+2 dex lets you start at 16 dex and just use a +1 tome to be eligible for Improved/Greater Two Weapon Fighting, or even a levelup point into Dex.

Enhancements wise, Halflings can access Guile/Cunning (extra sneak attack damage), Improved Saves, Dex enhancements, and Heroic Companion (1-minute combat boost to an ally).

Halflings can also access the Jorasco Dragonmark, which grants some healing spells as spell like abilities. The feat investment is a bit much IMO for a pure Rogue, but there is speculation that in the future Dragonmark feats will be reduced to a single feat. That's a ways off though.

Main advantage of Halflings is in extra sneak attack damage, excellent Reflex saves, extra Dexterity makes them a good choice for 28 point TWF builds.

[xveganrox]

Weapon Finesse might seem a natural fit here, however take care to not dump Str on a melee build. Even if going Weapon Finesse, try and start with 12 Strength at least. It's generally recommended to not mess with Weapon Finesse even on a Halfling, instead leaving Dex at 17 (including any tomes used) and focusing on Str instead.

Seconding this. Most people agree that at this point Weapon Finesse is a trap. It basically forces you to work with a few specific and mostly not very good weapons in order to come anywhere close to a non-Weapon Finesse build's DPS, all while costing you a feat.