Advice on traps for Level 8 Rogue

[Molaram]

My rogue:
http://my.ddo.com/character/khyber/kavendish/

He has search at +19 and disable traps at +19. Reflex save is 13.

My group of friends finds that doing quests on normal at our level is too easy, and we don't want to do higher level quests and skip content, so we tend to aim for elite quests one or two levels below what we are.

That makes the fights about the right challenge, but then the traps are too hard and I cant see them, let alone disarm them.

But if we ease up on difficulty, I can do the traps, but then the fights are too easy.

Am I doing something wrong?

My rogue is a str/assassin rogue though i have put some enhancements in search and disarm traps.
Am i going to have to switch to an INT based mechanic rogue to fix this? Or shoudl our group instead just do higher level quests on hard instead of lower level ones on elite?

Last night I did a level 4 coin lords quest (the bookbinder one) on elite. I knew the traps were there, but could not find them with search even after boosting search to +21 with fox's cunning, and when i tried to just run past, could not evade and died. Mad rogue skillz. It seems silly that the fights can be totally pedestrian (as they were doing a level 4 quest on elite) but the traps are impossible to see/disarm or run past.

[AZgreentea]

You should have some trap gear that you switch with your main gear as needed. You should have the best search, open, and disable item you can find. Having it on an item by itself will lower the ML. Dont wear it all the time, only switch it in when you need, and keep your combat gear on the rest of the time.

Also, having the Secret Door Detection shard on some goggles is a huge time saver. You can craft it from canith crafting, and it has no ML when you put it on by itsself. It lets you instantly find hidden doors without searching or clickie casting.

[GeoffWatson]

The traps on Elite are currently buggy. Too difficult.

Do the trap-heavy quests on Hard, or skip them and come back later after the next patch.

Geoff.

[Molaram]

You should have some trap gear that you switch with your main gear as needed. You should have the best search, open, and disable item you can find. Having it on an item by itself will lower the ML. Dont wear it all the time, only switch it in when you need, and keep your combat gear on the rest of the time.

Also, having the Secret Door Detection shard on some goggles is a huge time saver. You can craft it from canith crafting, and it has no ML when you put it on by itsself. It lets you instantly find hidden doors without searching or clickie casting.

Thanks for that. I could be better at gear management I guess. I do have a +5 disable trap item that i swap in when i am disabling a trap, but on the lower level elite quests, i wasnt even getting up to that because i couldn't even find the trap. I have a +5 search item equipped.

[Molaram]

The traps on Elite are currently buggy. Too difficult.

Do the trap-heavy quests on Hard, or skip them and come back later after the next patch.

Geoff.

Serious? Ok, that's really helpful, thanks.

[JollySwagMan]

Level 8 Rogue with 12 int:

Search: 11 ranks, +7 item, +1 base int of 12, +2 foxes pot, +2 heroism pot, +4 Human Versatility/Rogue skills boost, +1 Find Traps (divine scroll available in marketplace), +1 luck (voice of the master/prayer spell/scroll/clickie), +1 Improved Search enhancement (up to +3)

30/32 Search...add +7 for Disable from +5 tools.

However I don't know if that's enough for elite traps at level currently. During way too many Xorian Cipher runs to farm out a Planar Gird, I tested out the DCs in Elite Xorian Cipher at 25 Search and 35 Disable. I haven't been in there since the update yet to test out the wacky elite traps that I've been reading about on the forums...Mind, Xorian Cipher is level 10 on elite. A more appropriate example would be The Bounty Hunter (base level 6 quest with lots of traps), but the I don't run that one very often, haven't figured out the dcs in there myself yet...the wiki's traps and locks project data on that quest doesn't have the exact DCs yet either. Gwylans should be 21-22 search and 31-33 disable...

[Arkenvis]

Level 8 Rogue with 12 int:

Search: 11 ranks, +7 item, +1 base int of 12, +2 foxes pot, +2 heroism pot, +4 Human Versatility/Rogue skills boost, +1 Find Traps (divine scroll available in marketplace), +1 luck (voice of the master/prayer spell/scroll/clickie), +1 Improved Search enhancement (up to +3)

30/32 Search...add +7 for Disable from +5 tools.

However I don't know if that's enough for elite traps at level currently. During way too many Xorian Cipher runs to farm out a Planar Gird, I tested out the DCs in Elite Xorian Cipher at 25 Search and 35 Disable. I haven't been in there since the update yet to test out the wacky elite traps that I've been reading about on the forums...Mind, Xorian Cipher is level 10 on elite. A more appropriate example would be The Bounty Hunter (base level 6 quest with lots of traps), but the I don't run that one very often, haven't figured out the dcs in there myself yet...the wiki's traps and locks project data on that quest doesn't have the exact DCs yet either. Gwylans should be 21-22 search and 31-33 disable...

That should be plenty for no-fail (or at least not blowing the box) on elite at level traps. The only thing you're missing that you could have is +10 skill items, but the buffs and boosts can cover for that in most quests. I've been running my rogue in elite at levels (higher base + inherent Int, which is +2-3 bonus over yours), +10 items, and the sneak of shadows past life (+1), and I haven't blown a box yet, without using clickies or buffs.

[Rauven]

The traps on Elite are currently buggy. Too difficult.

Do the trap-heavy quests on Hard, or skip them and come back later after the next patch.

Geoff.

I've heard this as well, though on my capped rogues I haven't noticed anything. But I was playing a fairly fresh vet 7 rogue today, wearing just the boat gear and the korthos rogue set (no twink gear as I wasn't on my home server) and I blew a box in Redemption on elite on a 1. I have base 14 int and a +2 item, max ranks in dd, had my MotU mask on for +1 all skills, +3 from the korthos set, +1 from tools and I'm currently a mech for another +4 to dd and I had critical failure on a 1. A level 1 quest on elite should not have a trap with a disable DC of 27 or higher. I could spot and search the traps just fine but it certainly shocked me when I crit failed that dd check.

[wolfy42]

Elite traps are currently way harder then anything else on elite difficulty (although some of the spells are fairly dangerous now too).

That being said you can handle them if you set your character up right without any real chance of failure. Just ran a new rogue up (making a 13 rogue/6 monk/1 druid char) and didn't have any problems with traps with him really.

Few things that help.

Get a heroism clicky asap...you can get them with ML 7 I believe as the lowest. +2

Make sure you have fox's cunning on, and try if you can to get a ship int buff as well. +3

I think the highest you can get around lvl 7 is +9 search/disable device items. +9

Make sure you grab your rogue skill boost enhancement and the disarm traps/search enhancements as well. +6

If you haven't yet, run deleras quest chain and snag voice of the master for +1 luck bonus to skills. +1

In addition get the free house favor to allow purchase of higher lock picks..which will boost your disarm skill even more.

Disarm is actually more important as the search required can be easily reached using above methods, the disarm skill level needed to not fail on a 1 is much higher though. You can pump the disarm skill level early on by taking a skill focus feat in it. This can be switched out later (for free, everyone gets 1 free feat exchange) when you no longer need it. Toughness is often a good feat to switch in later when it'll do more good.

The above setup (Easy to get by level 7) awards +21 points. At level 7 you'd have 10 base I think, so that allows you to have a 31 in search/disarm traps base (without using skill focus feat or counting the lock pick bonus). With a good lockpick and skill focus you can pump that up over 40 pretty easy which is plenty until much later (by witch time you'll have even more bonuses).

I tend to only do quests on elite at this point and my char really didn't have any problems (didn't bother with skill focus and wasn't even a pure rogue). On traps it helps greatly to have evasion and boosting reflex saves. Early on get trap blast goggles (+4 reflex save) for when your running through traps etc. Cats grace of course helps as well, and don't forget your uncanny dodge bonus.

The biggest difference I have noticed is not on traps DC to disarm (or search) but on the DC to save vs the traps themselves. My character actually took lightning reflexes as a bonus monk feat because of this. Long term I'll switch it out, but early on it sure helped with some of the 30 DC reflex save low lvl elite traps. Monk/rogue combo is good for the reflex saves as well. I've found since the last patch that traps and spells are far more dangerous then melee at this point, so I have built my character around that in many ways...and it has worked well.

[Satinavian]

Yes, it is the gear.

at lv 7 you should have +7 items, at lv 9 +10 items. (can even be higher at certain circumstances like race restriction or crafting). Your +5 stuff is simply not good enough anymore.

In addition you should get good tools : Either from favor vendor or from ah.

For the more nasty traps a combination of heroism/fox' cunning/bard song/monk buff/skill boost might be needed, but never all of that at once.

Ship buffs and voice of the master (which you should get anyway) help too.


Seriously, an assassin should not only be able to get every at level elite quest, he should be able to not blow a box even on a 1 only selfbuffed. This is what people expect from a rogue at higher levels.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

There are many items/buffs you can use to boost your (trap) skills.

Spot is a Wisdom based skill, so Owl's Wisdom (available from potion vendor in the market) will boost your Spot skill.

Search and Disable Device are Intellegence based skills. Fox's Cunning Potions are available in the Market.

Open Locks is a Dex skill. (so is Hide/Move Silently btw) Cat's Grace potions.
(see a trend here yet? ;) )

(and UMD is a Cha based skill) (so is Bluff and Diplomacy)


Then there are things that add to all skills.

Heroism (available in potions from House J vender) adds +2 to all skills.
(so does Good Hope cast from a friendly Bard)
(speaking of Bards, they have some songs that add to your skills!)

Greater Heroism adds +4. (does not stack with Heroism/Good Hope)
GH scrolls can be bought and UMDed (at higher lvls)


Find Traps scrolls are available in the Market and relatively easy to UMD. They add a +1 to your serach skill that stacks with everything else.


Prayer spells and the Voice of the Master from the Delera's Graveyard series adds a +1 Luck bonus to all skills.
I believe you can also craft an item with a Luck bonus.
Several item in the game can have a +2 Luck Bonus on them.
(go run Delera's and get the Voice!)

+5 Thieves tools can be bought on the Auction House, and even crafted I believe. They can be used at lvl 1!
(adds to DD and OL)





Hmm.... that's all I can think of right now.


Although it might be a good idea at you rlevel to take all of the Search Enhaancements that you can spend Action Points on. And consider taking the Mechanic PRE enhancement.... until lvl 12, and then switch to whichever PRE you prefer. By then you will be past the difficult trap lvls. (for the most party anyway)

[A_J_Rimmer_SSC]

Basically to reinforce what others have said, yeah, traps are bugged on Heroic Elite. Yes, get gear better than +5 and make sure you have +5 tools. Yes, use potions/wands/scrolls to increase your skills as needed. In addition, get some equipment with the highest INT and WIS bonus you can wear. Probably either rings or headgear.

Here's a little more specific advice so you can keep your "fighting gear" on and only have to swap a couple pieces of gear regularly:

Set up a hotbar just for your situational gear, if you haven't already. Get yourself goggles with the highest spot, search, and disable you can use at your level. Stick each of them on the hotbar. You'll leave the spot goggles on by default. When you spot something, switch to the Search goggles and find it. Then switch to the Disable goggles and disarm it. Also get a set of Open Lock gloves or a trinket. Sit it next to your regular gloves/trinket on the hotbar and only equip it when you need to open something. Leaving it on permanently would be a waste of a gear slot. This isn't the best solution for EVERYONE. If you're bad at remembering to switch your gear, either get good at it :) or just learn to live with wearing your "trap gear" all the time.

Eventually, you'll get gear that has multiple effects on it, and change gear/strategy accordingly, but this is a solid way of doing things for a newer, low-to-mid-level rogue.

[JollySwagMan]

Did the Xorian Cipher earlier today, determined the new Elite Search DC to be 28-30, new disable DC to be 37-39.

@arkvenis: by the way, I'm not the OP ;). my breakdown was using the information that the OP provided (12 int human rogue) to show buffs that may be available but not considered as of yet.

A note on +10 skills items at level 8...i'm not aware of the update changing anything here yet. +10 items are normally min level 9.

Race Required, Cannith Crafted and Bound to Account end rewards would be min level 7. Or one could use a masterful craftsmanship shard to have a min level 7 +11 skills item, but i think that's a bit much for just 1 point of skills bonus!

For a TR/super twinked out toon, there are some more options:

Ioun Stone, Pirate Cove hat, extra int bonus potions (alchemical, yugo, ddo store), stockpiled Focusing Chant scrolls, alchemical skills bonus potions, spider mask, really really old greensteel items...I'm sure there's more that escape me at the moment.

I'm not sure if there are any psionic skill bonuses aside from the marketplace jumpy-succubus game reward?

At any rate, since this is the new player advice forum.....I highly recommend that new rogues invest in stacks of heroism/foxes/haste potions and prayer/displacement/fireshield scrolls before splurging on Khopeshes! If strapped for cash then by all means go Mechanic till level 12 when you should hopefully be better able to afford all the shinies. If you're spending a feat on a weapon proficiency, Greataxe or Falchion proficiency is better DPS until higher levels anyway.

[Jay203]

biggest problem with your setup atm is not updating to the highest trapping gear you can get
at level 8, you should be able to get at least +7 search, up to +11 if you invested into crafting i believe

so with your 12 base int, you should be at 11 ranks + 7 item + 2 enhancement + 1 int bonus for a total of 20, add in fox cunning for +2, +2 from heroism, +4 from skill boost, a +1 from prayer spell and you'll be looking at 29
33 if you have the +11 search item instead
another +1 if you have the elite spider mask

[JollySwagMan]

Maybe +10 items are indeed dropping at min level 7 now for regular items...I have seen +5 str gloves and +5 int goggles at min level 9 today as random gen quest rewards.

[Molaram]

Thanks everyone for the help, much appreciated.

Got search up to 26 with all the pots etc, and will get even higher once i redo my enhancements. Need to get my hands on better gear though, +5 is where I am at at the moment. I had +5 thieves tools for a while but ran out, and the AH didn't have any last time I looked.

Still, I know what to aim at now. It did make me glum to be failing to even search for traps on an elite level 4 quest as a level 7 rogue.

[7-day_Trial_Monkey]

Thanks everyone for the help, much appreciated.

Got search up to 26 with all the pots etc, and will get even higher once i redo my enhancements. Need to get my hands on better gear though, +5 is where I am at at the moment. I had +5 thieves tools for a while but ran out, and the AH didn't have any last time I looked.

Still, I know what to aim at now. It did make me glum to be failing to even search for traps on an elite level 4 quest as a level 7 rogue.

If you post character and server name it's possible that you just may end up finding some better equipment in your mailbox.

:)

I have a full bank tab of +5 tools on Khyber and plenty of +7, +10, +15 trap skills gear.

[Molaram]

Hi trial monkey, that would be much appreciated!

My character is Kavendish, on the Khyber server.