What does U14 mean for the Exploiter Ranger?

[Asmodeus451]

as the title, this is a thread to discuss the major systems overhaul introduced with U14, speciffically as it pertains to the Exploiter Ranger build


specific questions this thread seeks to answer:


is it still viable?
if still viable, has its effectiveness been diminished?
if no longer viable, can it be tweaked to make it so again? How?

[Ape_Man]

yes, they are fine. Mine and a few guildies have been doing very well with ours but at the same time they are all very well equipped and did very well in the pre-MoTU epic content.

I don't think mine will be tanking Elite Sulu again, maybe hard might even be too much for her now. I haven't tried it, will try with the raid is fixed just to see.

Take quicken for your level 21 feat. I'm going to assume you dropped Combat Expertise for Maximize already. If you haven't done so, do so. Slot in a Devotion item somewhere for spell power as ardor pots don't cut it anymore. Quickened CSW with decent spell-power and healing amp will save you if things get rough.

At a mid 60s AC (let's say 65), 16% Dodge (Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Icies, Chattering Ring, Epic Cloak of night), 10% incorporeal, and 20% blur a Mob with a 50 to-hit (my guess for much of the Epic hard stuff) will miss you 70% of the time. Soloing hard Amrath is rougher than it used to be when all of this added up to 70ish AC but it's still doable.

Fury of the Wild is actually pretty sweet on a Tempest, I'm looking forward to see how the other EDs play out (I expect Shiradis to be terrible but what can you do?).

[Thayion516]

Its my expectations that the build will have to be updated. The Monk level is a detriment now that armor has PRR on them and cloth does not. The AC Wisdom bonus is reduced in importance at high (70+) values. That aspect can be better used in other places. Unfortunately this logic can also be applied to the paltry + AC gains from the Tempest line itself.

Best Defense will come with a Solid AC Medium armor set with Mithril to reduce to Light status. You will attain Light PRR and New stat Medium AC values. Combined with UMDed Self scrolled Displacement/Blurr/Incorp/Dodge Items will net higher quality avoidance.

The Exploiter build was based in building the greatest value in overly strong areas of a character build such as AC, UMD, 2WF, The Single Level Monk splash, Self Healing, Healing Amp, Evasion, Ranged combat bursts, ect... Looking at these qualities in the new combat system honestly makes me see:

1) 18 Ranger/1Rogue/1Fighter
2) 14 Ranger/6Arty
3) 12 Ranger/7Pally/1Rogue
4) 12 Ranger/7Art/1Fighter

PA will be replaced with Precision as our to-hits are now on the diminishing curve also. Point Blank Shot will be nice for Manyshot bursts.

The Barb PL will be highly recommended to trigger some of the ED abilities while raged.

Now take consideration that all this is dependent on the ENH sweep this fall. Iv heard they may boost the Tempest line? a moderate boost in Temp 2 and 3 will result in 18ranger/1rogue/1fighter by default.

God I Pray for the +AC Values in tempest line to be converted to +Dodge%, Temp1/2/3 all gain +10hps and Temp 3 gains 10% Doublestrike. = WIN!!!!!!!!!!

Personally, im thinking ill try a 12ranger/7art/1fighter. Temp2/BattEng1, Haste boosts from Fighter and 300hp Heal Scrolls. Self weapon buffs. +65%to scrolls/wands. +3 UMD. Endless Facade.

[Grailhawk]

On paper it looks like the only real changes are that Precision vs Power Attack will be the new Combat Expertise vs Maximize debate and 1 Fighter is now more viable then it was before do to the Armor buff. I personalty think 1 Fighter vs 1 Monk is a total wash if your already set up as 1 Monk just go that way.

[Ape_Man]

Its my expectations that the build will have to be updated. The Monk level is a detriment now that armor has PRR on them and cloth does not. The AC Wisdom bonus is reduced in importance at high (70+) values. That aspect can be better used in other places. Unfortunately this logic can also be applied to the paltry + AC gains from the Tempest line itself.


Though light-amor is looking better at level 25 at level 20 Cloth and Monk-splash is still better from a defensive perspective. You also get the handwraps option which is better against 100% fort targets.

People are really putting too much value in palty value of light-armor's PRR. having it or not having it matters little.

The tempest line SHOULD give more AC, tempest III should give at least 10 (yes, I'm serious) so I agree with you there. I'd like to see some more dodge some how also, hopefully in the enhancements pass?

[Chai]

PA will be replaced with Precision as our to-hits are now on the diminishing curve also. Point Blank Shot will be nice for Manyshot bursts.


The diminishing returns aspect of the parabolic system actually HELPS here, as losing the to-hit wont have the same impact it once had.

[RS-Makk]

The Barb PL will be highly recommended to trigger some of the ED abilities while raged.

Can you say more about this? (still getting familiar with ED). Wouldn't simply taking a rage pot also trigger the ED abilities?

[Kawai]

if no longer viable, can it be tweaked to make it so again? How?

...wait for it.
...steady now...
...wait... for... it....

Re-Roll it into an Archer!
:rolleyes:
BAMM!
~*running and ducking!!! :D
/sarcasm OFF

[Ape_Man]

Can you say more about this? (still getting familiar with ED). Wouldn't simply taking a rage pot also trigger the ED abilities?

yes, so does Primal Scream which you'd be foolish not to take.

Taking a barb PL . . . with it's massive 30 second rage clickie . . . is meh. it's a great PL for the additional HP but the clickie?

[Ape_Man]

The diminishing returns aspect of the parabolic system actually HELPS here, as losing the to-hit wont have the same impact it once had.

I've notice no issues hitting stuff at all. Full disclosure I haven't done Epic Elites yet but in E-hards and everything else I'm having no issues.

[Aerendil]

Though light-amor is looking better at level 25 at level 20 Cloth and Monk-splash is still better from a defensive perspective. You also get the handwraps option which is better against 100% fort targets.

People are really putting too much value in palty value of light-armor's PRR. having it or not having it matters little.

Just curious, but how is cloth / monk-splash still better at level 20ish?
From what I've toyed around with, most light armours will provide better AC than going with cloth+dex+wis. However, I wouldn't say it's a significant AC difference here - and with the graded system of AC and to-hit, it's mostly negligable.

Which means it comes down to +2% dodge for /1 monk vs. +PRR with light armour (what, +15 or so?). Again, not sure either one is make-or-break, but I'd be leaning more in favour of the PRR - especially since Tempest III adds to it, TWD adds to it, and both FotW and LD epic destinies offer possible PRR boosts (as does the new planar focus: prowess set).

I think it ultimately depends on what ED you're looking at going for. Shiradhi, GMoFlowers, and Shadowdancer all boost +dodge%; LD and FotW boost PRR. It's always nice to play to your strengths.


Definitely agree with you on your previous Maximise feat point, though. With just Maximise + 2 points in Ranger devotion, I'm seeing 90-120 hp self-heals on my Ranger. No devotion item, but given the abundance of thaumaturgy staves hitting the AH, it shouldn't be difficult to find a nice devotion + healing lore one to swap in to boost those heals even further.

[RS-Makk]

Which means it comes down to +2% dodge for /1 monk vs. +PRR with light armour (what, +15 or so?).

Actually - if I read the ddo wiki description right, you only get the 2% if you are centered.. which most exploiters will not be since they wont be on monk weapons.

That said - I am personally struggling with this whole light armor vs cloth thing. I've been running around on light armor to test things out and I am really really missing being able to quickly 'hot swap' from one armor set to another. So I guess it comes down to the trade off the the PRR with light armor vs the few +AC from the wisdom bonus to AC.

[Ape_Man]

Just curious, but how is cloth / monk-splash still better at level 20ish?
From what I've toyed around with, most light armours will provide better AC than going with cloth+dex+wis. However, I wouldn't say it's a significant AC difference here - and with the graded system of AC and to-hit, it's mostly negligable.

Which means it comes down to +2% dodge for /1 monk vs. +PRR with light armour (what, +15 or so?). Again, not sure either one is make-or-break, but I'd be leaning more in favour of the PRR - especially since Tempest III adds to it, TWD adds to it, and both FotW and LD epic destinies offer possible PRR boosts (as does the new planar focus: prowess set).

I think it ultimately depends on what ED you're looking at going for. Shiradhi, GMoFlowers, and Shadowdancer all boost +dodge%; LD and FotW boost PRR. It's always nice to play to your strengths.


Definitely agree with you on your previous Maximise feat point, though. With just Maximise + 2 points in Ranger devotion, I'm seeing 90-120 hp self-heals on my Ranger. No devotion item, but given the abundance of thaumaturgy staves hitting the AH, it shouldn't be difficult to find a nice devotion + healing lore one to swap in to boost those heals even further.

"Better" might be too strong of a word . . . "too close to matter" is probably a better way to put it. I'll probably change my opinion when the better named light armors are reveled.

Those who already have icies or red scale robes shouldn't be in such a hurry to throw them out.

[Thayion516]

"Better" might be too strong of a word . . . "too close to matter" is probably a better way to put it. I'll probably change my opinion when the better named light armors are reveled.

Those who already have icies or red scale robes shouldn't be in such a hurry to throw them out.

As some have stated, the Robe vs Armor debate is very close. Personally I see PPR as having 5 dollars or not. It sure will not break me, but having it is better.

That means i will indeed have to ditch my Icy and look at the Red im working on.

Both Monk and Fighter will give an Additional Feat = a wash.

SO that being said, it come down to the benefits of a fighter level. I see Fighter Toughness 1 (+10hps) , Fighter Haste Boost 1 (+15%), Tactics Enhancements (+1 to Trip, Sunder and/or Stunning Blow), and maby the +2 Critical Accuracy (as the To-Hit is kinda lower now).

I guess the final factor will be the updates on the Light armors. If one of them dominate as clearly as an Icy, I will go with the Fighter Level.

[RS-Makk]

As some have stated, the Robe vs Armor debate is very close. Personally I see PPR as having 5 dollars or not. It sure will not break me, but having it is better.

That means i will indeed have to ditch my Icy and look at the Red im working on.

Both Monk and Fighter will give an Additional Feat = a wash.

SO that being said, it come down to the benefits of a fighter level. I see Fighter Toughness 1 (+10hps) , Fighter Haste Boost 1 (+15%), Tactics Enhancements (+1 to Trip, Sunder and/or Stunning Blow), and maby the +2 Critical Accuracy (as the To-Hit is kinda lower now).

I guess the final factor will be the updates on the Light armors. If one of them dominate as clearly as an Icy, I will go with the Fighter Level.

I'm thinking the Epic Duelist Leather is already fairly nice, since it has the 4% dodge in it, plue a blue slot, +15 balance, and +2 attack to boot.

[Vulgari]

The question isn't so much whether or not the build is viable or not, but whether or not the Devs WANT the build to be viable.

The trend since U5 has been to consistently reduce the relative value of the build; which would indicate that they do not.

But on the bright side U14 has given Rangers some awesome spells like Magic Fang and Animal Growth.
Both of which you can cast on yourself!

Oh wait...why aren't they doing anything?