Petition: new managers

[mutilador]

Its proven that the managers in Turbine are incompetents, the company should fired them and find new and competent people.

[settoloki]

when you release a game of the same scale as ddo with no bugs and it pleases everybody I will sign this.

[thwart]

Its proven that the managers in Turbine are incompetents, the company should fired them and find new and competent people.

Wow. My petition would be to find some more thoughtful posters for the forum.

Give these Turbine folks a break. They have put out a beautiful new expansion. It is perfect ... no. Will we adapt ... yes. Will they fix what needs to be fixed ... I hope so. But if the game is fun for you play it, if not ... don't play it. Sometimes I think the personal attacks on Turbine's employees is a little over the line.

My 2 ep.

[mutilador]

Wow. My petition would be to find some more thoughtful posters for the forum.

Give these Turbine folks a break. They have put out a beautiful new expansion. It is perfect ... no. Will we adapt ... yes. Will they fix what needs to be fixed ... I hope so. But if the game is fun for you play it, if not ... don't play it. Sometimes I think the personal attacks on Turbine's employees is a little over the line.

My 2 ep.


No, its not perfect, its just unplayable now.......

[jadedfate]

No, its not perfect, its just unplayable now.......

Really? Cause I seem to recall being on last night and playing it just fine..in fact, I'm quite enjoying it...

[settoloki]

No, its not perfect, its just unplayable now.......

What exactly is making it unplayable, you are making a broad statement, perhaps over exaggerated?

For instance last night I got in from work at 6ish played from 7pm till past midnight with no game destroying features or bugs. It was a long way from being unplayable, I also played with my friend - who also had the same experience as me. No disconnects or blue screens or anything that made the game unplayable we infact had the opposite effect and played longer than we usually would.

I am not calling you a liar, but suggesting maybe it is a hardware issue or something that is making it unplayable. I've noticed the line at the top of the forums "Known Issue: Black Screen With Visible UI: Some Intel users may find that when DirectX 10 is enabled, only their UI is visible and the rest of their screen is black. If this occurs, we recommend you disable DX10, enable DX9, and restart the game client." could this be your issue, you aren't giving a very informative post, I'm sure what ever your issue is we can get it worked out for you.

[furbyoats]

Perhaps you should look at the known issues list. The only problems I encountered had simple fixes that you can perform on the user end. The one that I couldn't fix was the occasional 5-10 second lag spike (and that happened maybe once every few hours), but given the amount of players on the server is much higher than normal at the moment.

I played a lot..and I mean a LOT the past couple days with no issues. Managed to explore a few astoundingly beautiful new areas, and run some new chains.

The only issue I can't figure out how to fix is some graphics lag that I experience in the shady areas of the King's Forest...but I believe that is a problem with my graphics card and I haven't targeted the right option to tone down to compensate.

[barecm]

Speaking of finding things... I lost my grammar book. At least I know where not to look.

I am not a huge Turbine flag waver at all and was very critical of ranged combat in particular during the beta, but I think they did a pretty good job getting this out on time. It has bugs, but if you played beta you would realize that they have fixed a ton of stuff. We can only assume that the bug fixes are ongoing. The initial beta was only a month or so ago and the game is a LOT less buggy now compared to then. I say good job in general as far as getting the game out. I am not 100% sold on all the changes and stuff, but as far as managing the release of the content, they did a good job.

[thwart]

The one that I couldn't fix was the occasional 5-10 second lag spike (and that happened maybe once every few hours), but given the amount of players on the server is much higher than normal at the moment.

You are lucky its only 5-10 seconds. Mine seems to last for 5-10 minutes and it always happens while I am fighting some mobs and then I become their personal punching bag.

My response may have some embellishment ... but the lag does seem long at times! ;)

[Grosbeak07]

No, its not perfect, its just unplayable now.......


I seemed to survive for about 8 hours yesterday... Curse you bugs!

[Paryan]

Its proven that the managers in Turbine are incompetents, the company should fired them and find new and competent people.

How is this proven? You provide no evidence, and based on the replies of posters here, they are still able to play the game. The Dev's here have been at this awhile. Think for a second about what the game, continuity, etc. would look like with an entire new set of staff.

A 100% bug free launch is impossible. After U12 (maybe 11) came out, the devs stated that a lamania code may work fine there, but new unaccountable for issues arise when moving to the live server. Best case scenario is a quick hotfix and/or patches....which is happening today by the way.

If you have problems with the game, bug report them. If all you do is complain and grab torches and pitchforks, you are helping nothing. You have nothing to justify your position, and an unrealistic expectation that merging the update with live servers would be 100% perfect.

The customer is NOT always right. When a customer asks the impossible or makes demands that could never be met, they are wrong and should not be catered to. It doesn't matter if you're VIP, premium etc. Turbine dictates how it operates. Either accept that or find a new game if this one is "so unplayable...."

[Grosbeak07]

The only issue I can't figure out how to fix is some graphics lag that I experience in the shady areas of the King's Forest...but I believe that is a problem with my graphics card and I haven't targeted the right option to tone down to compensate.

I had to turn my "frill" off. Still have low frame rates, but can move around and fight without too much issue.

[alexp80]

when you release a game of the same scale as ddo with no bugs and it pleases everybody I will sign this.

I'm not critic like Mutilador, but this is not the release of a new game.
This is an update that messed up a lot of the current game.

I'm a professional developer and I can tell that if I ever release an update like that my boss will not be pleased. At all.

But Turbine management know this all, it was a business decision to release unfinished content.

[Kalevor]

Its proven that the managers in Turbine are incompetents, the company should fired them and find new and competent people.

You must know a magic formula that makes every thing you want to just work perfect. Take a look outside your perfect world and realise that things usually don't works at first time attempt.

[Skavenaps]

Its proven that the managers in Turbine are incompetents, the company should fired them and find new and competent people.

oh god. if we could also fire players... how much better this forums will be

[settoloki]

I'm not critic like Mutilador, but this is not the release of a new game.
This is an update that messed up a lot of the current game.

I'm a professional developer and I can tell that if I ever release an update like that my boss will not be pleased. At all.

But Turbine management know this all, it was a business decision to release unfinished content.

I know am sounding like a turbine fan by right now but if you look back over my old posts you will see this isn't true. But in their defence I can't remember the last game I played that had a patch or an update that was bug free. Like Diablo 3 for instance, this is bioware possibly the biggest game company in th world where mmo's are considered, that was an awful release.

It just seems to be the way of the industry, I'm far from happy by it but it's just what is expected these days.

[Xynot2]

Let's see... WF can now be poisoned and then guild pots get timer reduced from 7min to 30 secs but dont really help cuz you still *feel the effects* of poison. WHAT?!? Seriously? That's not a bug or something not WAI. That's not getting things worked out in the planning stages. So the OP has a point.

There are plenty of other examples to evidence the OP's point so ripping into this one wont wash.

[settoloki]

Let's see... WF can now be poisoned and then guild pots get timer reduced from 7min to 30 secs but dont really help cuz you still *feel the effects* of poison. WHAT?!? Seriously? That's not a bug or something not WAI. That's not getting things worked out in the planning stages. So the OP has a point.

There are plenty of other examples to evidence the OP's point so ripping into this one wont wash.

if you think getting poisoned is game destroying, you're playing the wrong game, have you tried farmiville on facebook, might be right up your street!

[Ugumagre]

They will get fired when they make no money.
They are making money.
They don´t get fired.
Check SWTOR, check SWG.

[furbyoats]

Let's see... WF can now be poisoned and then guild pots get timer reduced from 7min to 30 secs but dont really help cuz you still *feel the effects* of poison. WHAT?!? Seriously? That's not a bug or something not WAI. That's not getting things worked out in the planning stages. So the OP has a point.

There are plenty of other examples to evidence the OP's point so ripping into this one wont wash.

If only WF had some kind of bonus to reflect their previous immunity...

[Paryan]

Let's see... WF can now be poisoned and then guild pots get timer reduced from 7min to 30 secs but dont really help cuz you still *feel the effects* of poison. WHAT?!? Seriously? That's not a bug or something not WAI. That's not getting things worked out in the planning stages. So the OP has a point.

There are plenty of other examples to evidence the OP's point so ripping into this one wont wash.

Where does it say that *feel the effects* of poison after using a pot is WAI? The timer thing is most likely right and the way turbine intended (whether one agrees or not). And if it is WAI, why does this mean it wasn't planned out? Just because you don't like it? To make an intentional change it had to be though out and coded to do such.

Yes we get it, people don't like change or bugs...

[Grosbeak07]

Let's see... WF can now be poisoned and then guild pots get timer reduced from 7min to 30 secs but dont really help cuz you still *feel the effects* of poison. WHAT?!? Seriously? That's not a bug or something not WAI. That's not getting things worked out in the planning stages. So the OP has a point.

There are plenty of other examples to evidence the OP's point so ripping into this one wont wash.

Poison has not bothered me one bit.

[Silverwren]

Sheesh! Why all the hate? Just because the OP had some issues doesn't mean everyone did, and it doesn't necessarily mean that it's all Turbine's fault. To call on the firing of everyone who works there is the sign of someone who routinely points the finger of blame at everyone one else when the ****ie hits the rotary cooling device.

I played last night and ran a hard Shroud. It was awesome! We all had a great run, there was very little lag, and no one complained at all. Personally I think this new update (so far) is pretty good, and I haven't even seen the new content yet.

[Xynot2]

if you think getting poisoned is game destroying, you're playing the wrong game, have you tried farmiville on facebook, might be right up your street!

I dont think it's game destroying. I think it's indicative of the *microsoft mindset*. Put it out and we'll fix it later. The problem is that most of it never gets fixed. That's not a programmer problem, that's a management problem. Im not saying it HAS to be perfect. Humans are involved so perfection is unattainable. But something so obviously glaring as the example I gave should have never happened. And again. There are plaenty of other things that can be cited. Browse the forums for the evidence.

I'm not talking about ML on gear. That is a fix IMHO. Im talking about things like this WF issue that Bork existing builds and kill a class/race(or at least put them into mothballs til they're fixed). FYI- I dont have any WF toons so this isn't personal.

[thwart]

Poison has not bothered me one bit.

Me either ... so far I have just ignored it. I probably should get a stack of pots though, just in case there is more wicked poison out there.

[Xynot2]

Me either ... so far I have just ignored it. I probably should get a stack of pots though, just in case there is more wicked poison out there.

Better get a bunch. The timer got dropped from 7min to 30sec and you still *feel the effects*.

[thwart]

I dont think it's game destroying. I think it's indicative of the *microsoft mindset*. Put it out and we'll fix it later. The problem is that most of it never gets fixed. That's not a programmer problem, that's a management problem. Im not saying it HAS to be perfect. Humans are involved so perfection is unattainable. But something so obviously glaring as the example I gave should have never happened. And again. There are plaenty of other things that can be cited. Browse the forums for the evidence.

I'm not talking about ML on gear. That is a fix IMHO. Im talking about things like this WF issue that Bork existing builds and kill a class/race(or at least put them into mothballs til they're fixed). FYI- I dont have any WF toons so this isn't personal.

I think the change to poison was intentional. I don't think they are planning on changing it. We will have to adapt and I do play some WF and so far, poison has not been an issue.

[Paryan]

I'm not talking about ML on gear. That is a fix IMHO. Im talking about things like this WF issue that Bork existing builds and kill a class/race(or at least put them into mothballs til they're fixed). FYI- I dont have any WF toons so this isn't personal.

Just because a change wreaks a build (and I have a monk splash pajama wearer.....) doesn't mean turbine borked it. It means the strength I build that character for has changed and I need to rethink it. If you build to take advantage of a single aspect because it has massive benefits over any other option then don;t be surprised by the nerf bat. It will come. That aside, if a WF build is unplayable due to poison, there are other issues here.

[furbyoats]

I'm not talking about ML on gear. That is a fix IMHO. Im talking about things like this WF issue that Bork existing builds and kill a class/race(or at least put them into mothballs til they're fixed). FYI- I dont have any WF toons so this isn't personal.

Could you explain what exactly borks WF builds?

[settoloki]

I dont think it's game destroying. I think it's indicative of the *microsoft mindset*. Put it out and we'll fix it later. The problem is that most of it never gets fixed. That's not a programmer problem, that's a management problem. Im not saying it HAS to be perfect. Humans are involved so perfection is unattainable. But something so obviously glaring as the example I gave should have never happened. And again. There are plaenty of other things that can be cited. Browse the forums for the evidence.

I'm not talking about ML on gear. That is a fix IMHO. Im talking about things like this WF issue that Bork existing builds and kill a class/race(or at least put them into mothballs til they're fixed). FYI- I dont have any WF toons so this isn't personal.

I think a change like this is not a bug or management issue, I think it was intentionally added to be the way it is. There may be many variables to consider in why the changes were made, some we may never know the reason for.

Not saying this is the case but it is an example.
They added a new mechanic to a boss fight but being completely immune to poison was a game breaker, so they had to come up with an inventive solution to address the issue.

Or the warforged race was considered greatly overpowered compared to other classes, this was a balancing issue.

Or it could be as simple as an engine limitation they wanted to add something but the current engine couldn't handle the change and this was a fair trade off.

I am sure there was a lot of thought put into it and it wasn't a rushed design and other options were considered. They don't always get it right, but give them some credit.

[furbyoats]

I think a change like this is not a bug or management issue, I think it was intentionally added to be the way it is. There may be many variables to consider in why the changes were made, some we may never know the reason for.

Not saying this is the case but it is an example.
They added a new mechanic to a boss fight but being completely immune to poison was a game breaker, so they had to come up with an inventive solution to address the issue.

Or the warforged race was considered greatly overpowered compared to other classes, this was a balancing issue.

Or it could be as simple as an engine limitation they wanted to add something but the current engine couldn't handle the change and this was a fair trade off.

I am sure there was a lot of thought put into it and it wasn't a rushed design and other options were considered. They don't always get it right, but give them some credit.

I've been "feeling the effects" of the poison in the xpack content...a little icon appears under my buff bar then goes away when my massively boosted racial save ***** slaps it back into nothingness.

[Xynot2]

Could you explain what exactly borks WF builds?

Scan the forums. It's not just WF. This was an example to support the OP and the point that there is a planning problem which means it's not the programmers. Which in turn means it's management since it seems to be WAI. For the sake of WF players, I hope it's a late April Fool joke since WF are SUPPOSED to be immune to poison. And I guess that answers your question- WF race description= immune to poison= now it's borked. Im less concerned about that single issue than the implication that it could cause conflict errors. Unless they went back and actually changed that programming (insert snide snicker here)

[settoloki]

I've been "feeling the effects" of the poison in the xpack content...a little icon appears under my buff bar then goes away when my massively boosted racial save ***** slaps it back into nothingness.

Yes, I've not really had an issue with it, my friend got petrified by it last night once in the 5 or so hours we played. The only downfall was I got to laugh at him. Though his saves kicked it into touch like a whole second afterwards. I even have the remove poison spell but was laughing so couldn't click it in time.

[Maxson]

I dont think it's game destroying. I think it's indicative of the *microsoft mindset*. Put it out and we'll fix it later. The problem is that most of it never gets fixed. That's not a programmer problem, that's a management problem. Im not saying it HAS to be perfect. Humans are involved so perfection is unattainable. But something so obviously glaring as the example I gave should have never happened. And again. There are plaenty of other things that can be cited. Browse the forums for the evidence.

I'm not talking about ML on gear. That is a fix IMHO. Im talking about things like this WF issue that Bork existing builds and kill a class/race(or at least put them into mothballs til they're fixed). FYI- I dont have any WF toons so this isn't personal.

Ohhhh...so I guess you're a *nix dev then?

Now, I'm not saying the "release, we'll fix it later" approach isn't something microsoft does, but Open Source software is basically "release it, we'll fix it later" through and through. Hell, I had to go through about 6 custom ROMs for my phone before I found one that doesn't crash.

No, this is an update to an old game, but not a new game, but so much of the game has been rewritten in the background that it's obscene.

Yes, there are tonnes of bugs, but this is nothing compared to the following MMOs:

Tabula Rasa (A ten MILLION dollar project when 10 million dollar game production was unheard of, lead by one of the industry's finest designers, at the then biggest MMO house in the world)
Early WoW
Auto Assault
Early DDO....seriously, if you missed year one of DDO you missed being able to fly up walls by jumping up against them!
Just about all of them.

[Cauthey]

It is NOT "proven."

/not signed.

This thread is also not a productive one that anything good will come of.

[furbyoats]

Scan the forums. It's not just WF. This was an example to support the OP and the point that there is a planning problem which means it's not the programmers. Which in turn means it's management since it seems to be WAI. For the sake of WF players, I hope it's a late April Fool joke since WF are SUPPOSED to be immune to poison. And I guess that answers your question- WF race description= immune to poison= now it's borked. Im less concerned about that single issue than the implication that it could cause conflict errors. Unless they went back and actually changed that programming (insert snide snicker here)

This post gives absolutely ZERO information about how removal of poison immunity "borks" WF builds. You need to give specific examples.

Again: WF get a +10 to poison saves...that's HUGE. Once you reach the breaking point you no longer fail on a 1. It is not like finger of death or disco ball. It is more like a skill check (see UMD/DD/OL). My main is a WF and I've been playing in the new xpack where poison is figgin everywhere. Guess what, not an issue.

[settoloki]

Ohhhh...so I guess you're a *nix dev then?

Now, I'm not saying the "release, we'll fix it later" approach isn't something microsoft does, but Open Source software is basically "release it, we'll fix it later" through and through. Hell, I had to go through about 6 custom ROMs for my phone before I found one that doesn't crash.

No, this is an update to an old game, but not a new game, but so much of the game has been rewritten in the background that it's obscene.

Yes, there are tonnes of bugs, but this is nothing compared to the following MMOs:

Tabula Rasa (A ten MILLION dollar project when 10 million dollar game production was unheard of, lead by one of the industry's finest designers, at the then biggest MMO house in the world)
Early WoW
Auto Assault
Early DDO....seriously, if you missed year one of DDO you missed being able to fly up walls by jumping up against them!
Just about all of them.

+1

as well as your vast insight, I would wager you are also one sexy sexy bastardo!

[Malky]

No, its not perfect, its just unplayable now.......

Yeah right!

*going back ig to enjoy new content again*

[jadedfate]

I'm not critic like Mutilador, but this is not the release of a new game.
This is an update that messed up a lot of the current game.

I'm a professional developer and I can tell that if I ever release an update like that my boss will not be pleased. At all.

But Turbine management know this all, it was a business decision to release unfinished content.

No but it is a launch that changed many of the mechanics of the system and a lot of the underlying frame work of the game itself. It may as well be a new launch at that point. As a developer, you should realize how ridiculous your statement is.

[Algreg]

Its proven that the managers in Turbine are incompetents, the company should fired them and find new and competent people.

companies are not democracies. but you can always exert your power as a customer - vote with your wallet. Seriously, if you think a product or a service is so bad you cannot enjoy it anymore, do not mope but act accordingly.

[Xynot2]

Ohhhh...so I guess you're a *nix dev then?

Now, I'm not saying the "release, we'll fix it later" approach isn't something microsoft does, but Open Source software is basically "release it, we'll fix it later" through and through.


One word- Mac

And to the guy who said- WF is fine: You may be the only one who thinks so.
To all: The point isn't the one item. The point isn't about WF or any one thing. It's a host of things that could have gone better. Refer to the one word reply to the quoted text. Do it right or dont do it. Is that such a hard concept?

[furbyoats]

One word- Mac

And to the guy who said- WF is fine: You may be the only one who thinks so.
To all: The point isn't the one item. The point isn't about WF or any one thing. It's a host of things that could have gone better. Refer to the one word reply to the quoted text. Do it right or dont do it. Is that such a hard concept?

What are some other things that could have gone better? Can you list specifics and what exactly the issue is?

Also, not a single person in all of my channels or in guild has said anything about the WF poison change being an issue that "borks" their builds...and a lot of them are the type that will be quite vocal about game breaking changes.

[Maxson]

One word- Mac

And to the guy who said- WF is fine: You may be the only one who thinks so.
To all: The point isn't the one item. The point isn't about WF or any one thing. It's a host of things that could have gone better. Refer to the one word reply to the quoted text. Do it right or dont do it. Is that such a hard concept?

Ohhhh....so you're a STUNTED *nix dev then, now it makes sense.

So which part of not rushing it out of the door do you like best about your jobsian saviour company? The bit where they release a new version of £2000 hardware every year or the bit where they refuse to patch a trojan for 6 months becuase "macs don't get viruses/trojans"...maybe they could've benefitted by rushing on that?

No, it's not about WF, or item levels, yes it's a host of things that could've gone better....on THAT I actually agree with you...but the fact is, that doesn't make it unplayable that's just dumb hyperbole. The reason people are mentioning the WF poison thing is because it was cited as one of those many things that makes the game unplayable...when it's very playable.

I guess after living the glamorous lifestyle of Brushed aluminium "It just works" is all you know? Have fun with your first logic board error, you're going to blow your ****ing top!

[darksol23]

In before the lock!

[Jasparion]

We ran the Rift dungeon to get in to Eveningstar tonight and it looked awesome. Fairly easy battles on Hard difficulty, but the graphics were spectacular.

In 2 days Ive encountered 1 bug. Our ship had no stuff, but by the time I had finished downloading the patch someone in the guild was just finishing off putting everything back.

And in a couple of hours there will be a new patch which will fix a bunch of things (and probably break 1 or 2 others).

And in a day or 2 there will be another patch which will fix even more things. Then we can expect to enjoy months of playing with relatively little downtime. Especially compared to one big game which had the servers go down 1 evening per week.

[Grosbeak07]

One word- Mac

And to the guy who said- WF is fine: You may be the only one who thinks so.
To all: The point isn't the one item. The point isn't about WF or any one thing. It's a host of things that could have gone better. Refer to the one word reply to the quoted text. Do it right or dont do it. Is that such a hard concept?


I agree WF are fine. Guess that makes 2 of us. :cool:

[die]

Wow. My petition would be to find some more thoughtful posters for the forum.

Give these Turbine folks a break. They have put out a beautiful new expansion. It is perfect ... no. Will we adapt ... yes. Will they fix what needs to be fixed ... I hope so. But if the game is fun for you play it, if not ... don't play it. Sometimes I think the personal attacks on Turbine's employees is a little over the line.

My 2 ep.

/signed play or dont play that is my story i choose to play :)

[Phidius]

Its proven that the managers in Turbine are incompetents, the company should fired them and find new and competent people.

Calling for the termination of someone's job is an incredibly incompetent way to enact change around these parts. Just sayin'.


oh god. if we could also fire players... how much better this forums will be

They can and do - it's called banning, though, not firing. I probably shouldn't talk about it, but there it is.

[Cyr]

Without massive changes at Turbine we will continue to get the same shoddy quality product we have been getting for the past couple of years.

This xpack is merely the culmination of the things at Turbine which have not worked well for a long time coming to a head. Likewise those things which normally work well from Turbine worked pretty well in the xpack such as the artwork.

This xpack could have been a show stopper that would have been a firewall against future D&D based competiton and a strong vehicle to steal market share from other games. Instead all the issues and implementation choices have dragged down the release and hurt it's potential.

No one should be happy about that who plays DDO and wants it to be a better game.

[mutilador]

companies are not democracies. but you can always exert your power as a customer - vote with your wallet. Seriously, if you think a product or a service is so bad you cannot enjoy it anymore, do not mope but act accordingly.

Im doing it since 2010 when i cancelled my subscripting......

[jadedfate]

One word- Mac



You completely discredited yourself with that one. Using the company that rules with an iron fist what you can and can't do with stuff you buy from them after you own it is a poor example. Also, if you check their hardware specs they're ridiculously over priced on top of that especially since they're now using intel chipsets anyway. So you pay for an OS that they sell for about 30 bucks and double at least of what a PC user pays to own a pretty, somewhat out of date, hardware wise, computer. Congrats to you! You win!

[Bunker]

Its proven that the managers in Turbine are incompetents, the company should fired them and find new and competent people.

Rant?

[Xynot2]

Ohhhh....so you're a STUNTED *nix dev then, now it makes sense.

So which part of not rushing it out of the door do you like best about your jobsian saviour company? The bit where they release a new version of £2000 hardware every year or the bit where they refuse to patch a trojan for 6 months becuase "macs don't get viruses/trojans"...maybe they could've benefitted by rushing on that?

No, it's not about WF, or item levels, yes it's a host of things that could've gone better....on THAT I actually agree with you...but the fact is, that doesn't make it unplayable that's just dumb hyperbole. The reason people are mentioning the WF poison thing is because it was cited as one of those many things that makes the game unplayable...when it's very playable.

I guess after living the glamorous lifestyle of Brushed aluminium "It just works" is all you know? Have fun with your first logic board error, you're going to blow your ****ing top!

I actually laughed out loud. Seriously. Weigh MS vs Mac and you get a lot fewer issues with Mac. Period. When you look at the overall, Mac put it out with as few issues as possible and when an issue arises, it takes longer than MS because they only want to fix it ONCE. They strive for that. Unlike MS where you have fix after fix after update after update after oops, that was the wrong fix etc.

FYI- I dont own a Mac. The one issue I have with Mac, and it's all due to personal preference, is that I cant build one. I may be out of the loop, but last I checked, you couldnt build a machine and install a mac OS. I prefer Linux. The comparison was one of attitude in product. Which I gathered to be the meaning of the OP.

[furbyoats]

I actually laughed out loud. Seriously. Weigh MS vs Mac and you get a lot fewer issues with Mac. Period. When you look at the overall, Mac put it out with as few issues as possible and when an issue arises, it takes longer than MS because they only want to fix it ONCE. They strive for that. Unlike MS where you have fix after fix after update after update after oops, that was the wrong fix etc.

FYI- I dont own a Mac. The one issue I have with Mac, and it's all due to personal preference, is that I cant build one. I may be out of the loop, but last I checked, you couldnt build a machine and install a mac OS. I prefer Linux. The comparison was one of attitude in product. Which I gathered to be the meaning of the OP.

http://i.imgur.com/9kDJa.jpg

[jadedfate]

I actually laughed out loud. Seriously. Weigh MS vs Mac and you get a lot fewer issues with Mac. Period. When you look at the overall, Mac put it out with as few issues as possible and when an issue arises, it takes longer than MS because they only want to fix it ONCE. They strive for that. Unlike MS where you have fix after fix after update after update after oops, that was the wrong fix etc.

FYI- I dont own a Mac. The one issue I have with Mac, and it's all due to personal preference, is that I cant build one. I may be out of the loop, but last I checked, you couldnt build a machine and install a mac OS. I prefer Linux. The comparison was one of attitude in product. Which I gathered to be the meaning of the OP.

You are very out of the loop..Macs are Intel Chip based now, and with the right hardware, the ones they allow to be used, you can build a mac. They're called Hackentosh's...of course Apple doesn't support this practice..so maybe you should not comment on stuff that you don't fully understand.

[Maxson]

I actually laughed out loud. Seriously. Weigh MS vs Mac and you get a lot fewer issues with Mac. Period. When you look at the overall, Mac put it out with as few issues as possible and when an issue arises, it takes longer than MS because they only want to fix it ONCE. They strive for that. Unlike MS where you have fix after fix after update after update after oops, that was the wrong fix etc.

Well, that depends what you mean by "issue"....Because I think not being able to play most games is an issue....oh and lack of support for developers who don't want to be inside the "walled garden"...let's not do Microsoft Versus Mac, the sales figures already proved who won.

Point I'm making here is that Macs have some ludicrous flaws I suppose. They're great PCs for end users at a premium price. That's fine, I'd buy an alienware PC if I had money to burn. But as a developer, you should know well that Macs aren't perfect, they do crash and they do fail sometimes.

I think what I took exception to was your description of sloppy implementation to be a Microsoft specific thing. It's not. Open Source guys can **** up too, as can Mac guys.

Let us not forget the iPhone 4 Antenna problem, because the phone was not sufficiently tested before going to manufacture....because Apple push **** out of the door very fast, it's not a Mac PC problem...but it is such an Apple thing to do.

Yup...this rushed release that's full of bugs is So iPhone4.

[Sonos]

You completely discredited yourself with that one. Using the company that rules with an iron fist what you can and can't do with stuff you buy from them after you own it is a poor example. Also, if you check their hardware specs they're ridiculously over priced on top of that especially since they're now using intel chipsets anyway. So you pay for an OS that they sell for about 30 bucks and double at least of what a PC user pays to own a pretty, somewhat out of date, hardware wise, computer. Congrats to you! You win!

The OP doesn't say Apple vs. PC, discuss but I'll bite. There is not much that I can't do with or to my Mac. The hardware is expensive but it is quality. Have had brand new Dell and HP last round and before you know it, I'm googling why the #@!$ my video card took a dump... well gee, they put some OEM crappola they scrounged from a Taiwanese dumpster and shoved it in there. But no problem the forums say, just squeeze some droplets of silver in there and it's all good. No thanks. So now I have a computer that is both Mac AND a PC. I don't agree with a lot of Apple's practices, but I sure as hell know that what I'm getting is quality.

To the OP:

I get the outrage. Calling for people's livelihood is a bit too much for my taste. I enjoy the game, bugs will happen, and while this is per usual, it's also customary for all games.

The old guard at Turbine wrote some interesting but broken a$$ code. The new guard has to deal with it and make do. That they continue to release content on a 6 year old game is commendable and frankly exciting. Many other online games come with their bugs and DDO has it's Lion share of hilarious bugs, which are annoying. But when I remind myself that it's a game, it puts things in perspective. When I stop enjoying it, I'll simply move on.

[mutilador]

A 100% bug free launch is impossible.


I agree. Im a developer too, theres no bug free software. But release an update with half (or more) of it bugged is stupid imo.

[jadedfate]

The OP doesn't say Apple vs. PC, discuss but I'll bite. There is not much that I can't do with or to my Mac. The hardware is expensive but it is quality. Have had brand new Dell and HP last round and before you know it, I'm googling why the #@!$ my video card took a dump... well gee, they put some OEM crappola they scrounged from a Taiwanese dumpster and shoved it in there. But no problem the forums say, just squeeze some droplets of silver in there and it's all good. No thanks. So now I have a computer that is both Mac AND a PC. I don't agree with a lot of Apple's practices, but I sure as hell know that what I'm getting is quality.

To the OP:

I get the outrage. Calling for people's livelihood is a bit too much for my taste. I enjoy the game, bugs will happen, and while this is per usual, it's also customary for all games.

The old guard at Turbine wrote some interesting but broken a$$ code. The new guard has to deal with it and make do. That they continue to release content on a 6 year old game is commendable and frankly exciting. Many other online games come with their bugs and DDO has it's Lion share of hilarious bugs, which are annoying. But when I remind myself that it's a game, it puts things in perspective. When I stop enjoying it, I'll simply move on.

If 2 year old hardware tech is your idea of quality, sure. Enjoy that i5 while I blow it out of the water on my i7. Oh and for half the price. Oh my mistake, they're using i7 chips finally in some of their more expensive models...so make that a quarter of the cost then.

[Teharahma]

Turbine is still the huge fail that they always were, people just lowered their standards..

[settoloki]

I agree. Im a developer too, theres no bug free software. But release an update with half (or more) of it bugged is stupid imo.

with the additional content release there is no way anybody can justify ( or really measure for that matter ) that half of it is bugged.

but to humour you we can play a game, you make a list of bugs and I will come up with a list of new content that isn't bugged, if your list is greater than mine I will cave and agree over half of the update is bugged.

[mutilador]

To the OP:

I get the outrage. Calling for people's livelihood is a bit too much for my taste. I enjoy the game, bugs will happen, and while this is per usual, it's also customary for all games.

The old guard at Turbine wrote some interesting but broken a$$ code. The new guard has to deal with it and make do. That they continue to release content on a 6 year old game is commendable and frankly exciting. Many other online games come with their bugs and DDO has it's Lion share of hilarious bugs, which are annoying. But when I remind myself that it's a game, it puts things in perspective. When I stop enjoying it, I'll simply move on.

If i dont do well my job, my boss is there to tell me that. The devs r doing a great job with the new packs i guess but i didnt buy it. I want to play the old content that i paid for and most of it r broken.......

[Dandonk]

I don't like (well, hate) the new combat system. Yes, there are bugs (can't recall from one quest, shippies gone, can't redo quests etc). Yes, there have been nerfs to a lot of things.

But I like the new content. And I haven't met a game-breaking bug in it yet. So though I'll never agree with the devs about the combat change, I think everything else has been done pretty good. Outstanding even, in many cases.

[settoloki]

If i dont do well my job, my boss is there to tell me that. The devs r doing a great job with the new packs i guess but i didnt buy it. I want to play the old content that i paid for and most of it r broken.......

again you are making outrageous claims saying most or "the majority of" is broken. Yet you have nothing to back this up, sounds like you're spitting your dummy out a little. Or that they made some changes that were good for the game on the whole but you didn't like them so claiming it as broken?

Not entirely sure where you're going with this. Would be good for you to back up your claims with some examples.

[Algreg]

I actually laughed out loud. Seriously. Weigh MS vs Mac and you get a lot fewer issues with Mac. Period. When you look at the overall, Mac put it out with as few issues as possible and when an issue arises, it takes longer than MS because they only want to fix it ONCE. They strive for that. Unlike MS where you have fix after fix after update after update after oops, that was the wrong fix etc.

FYI- I dont own a Mac. The one issue I have with Mac, and it's all due to personal preference, is that I cant build one. I may be out of the loop, but last I checked, you couldnt build a machine and install a mac OS. I prefer Linux. The comparison was one of attitude in product. Which I gathered to be the meaning of the OP.

The endless comparisons between MS (PCs) and Apple are pointless. Apple sells software AND hardware as a package, if they hadn´t way less issues with their OS than MS they would qualify as a pack of hysterical chimpanzees. MS has to make their OS work on countless tailored platforms, a lot of them less than optimal when it comes to compatability. Of cause they have to create more patches and fixes.

[Chai]

companies are not democracies. but you can always exert your power as a customer - vote with your wallet. Seriously, if you think a product or a service is so bad you cannot enjoy it anymore, do not mope but act accordingly.

This will never happen. Its many of the same people in there hyperbolously harping on the devs who were the ones that "quit" as loudly and overexageratedly as possible when U5 happened. Note they are still here doing the same today. :p

The complaining about the game being "unplayable" is not very convincing when their next action after posting is to tab back in and play more DDO.

[Chai]

The endless comparisons between MS (PCs) and Apple are pointless. Apple sells software AND hardware as a package, if they hadn´t way less issues with their OS than MS they would qualify as a pack of hysterical chimpanzees. MS has to make their OS work on countless tailored platforms, a lot of them less than optimal when it comes to compatability. Of cause they have to create more patches and fixes.

And yet MACs OS was the first to get hacked in most of the tradeshows where they try to put it up against Windoze7 or even Vista when it was first released. Dont get me wrong, I dont feel Windoze is some bastion of perfection, however all the talk from the MAC crowd is just that, heh.

[Xynot2]

...of course Apple doesn't support this practice..s

Oh I understand. Ma cdoesn't support it so you CANT build a mac(unless you really like pain and suffering). MS and Linux support their OS's on customs. I've been playing with computers since the commodore 64 portable so I have a clue and I gave you the benefit of the doubt by not going into explicit details.

This isn't about mac vs ms. This is about the attitude of - so it's broke. Put it out anyway. And to use that car cartoon as an example, Detroit doesnt put out a POS and say they'll fix it later. Try again.

[Chauncey1]

As frustrated as I am about being unable to play last night after DC'ing and then was unable to log back in, I think blaming the managers who oversee the devs is greatly misplaced.
The anger should be focused on the Executives who hand out marching orders and give unrealistic deadlines.

I was able to play just fine the day of the release, and the game looked better, I was happy with the new UI, lag seemed to be less noticeable, and I was practically high with delight about the new content.

But, last night got me pretty upset.

Not sure what the cause is. Will be checking it out in a few days.

I'm just gonna take a break from DDO for as long as I can stand it...which I give myself less than a week.

[settoloki]

As frustrated as I am about being unable to play last night after DC'ing and then was unable to log back in, I think blaming the managers who oversee the devs is greatly misplaced.
The anger should be focused on the Executives who hand out marching orders and give unrealistic deadlines.

I was able to play just fine the day of the release, and the game looked better, I was happy with the new UI, lag seemed to be less noticeable, and I was practically high with delight about the new content.

But, last night got me pretty upset.

Not sure what the cause is. Will be checking it out in a few days.

I'm just gonna take a break from DDO for as long as I can stand it...which I give myself less than a week.

addict! and I've been floating on the forums most the day and not seen another case like this, so perhaps was a lag spike or internet line issue. Maybe some exchange somewhere had an issue, I remember you mentioning you 2 friends had the same problem, were they in same town as you or spread around the world? You could probably log back in now

[mutilador]

again you are making outrageous claims saying most or "the majority of" is broken. Yet you have nothing to back this up, sounds like you're spitting your dummy out a little. Or that they made some changes that were good for the game on the whole but you didn't like them so claiming it as broken?

Not entirely sure where you're going with this. Would be good for you to back up your claims with some examples.

Read the forum posts, you have plenty of examples here.....

[settoloki]

Read the forum posts, you have plenty of examples here.....

if I log into game there is more people playing than there are making posts, your argument is invalid.

[Paryan]

Read the forum posts, you have plenty of examples here.....

While there are plenty of bugs, there are 10,000's of things that are WAI....so again, half? majority? Not quite.

[Xynot2]

As frustrated as I am about being unable to play last night after DC'ing and then was unable to log back in, I think blaming the managers who oversee the devs is greatly misplaced.
The anger should be focused on the Executives who hand out marching orders and give unrealistic deadlines

Agreed. Even so, that still seems to be in line with the OP.

[mutilador]

Idc about what ppl r doing, i cant do what i want cuz the bugs. Some ppl r playing, yes they r but im not. I spend a lot of money in the game and i cant do what i paid for. Is it a good argument for you or do you want o hug too?

[smatt]

This will never happen. Its many of the same people in there hyperbolously harping on the devs who were the ones that "quit" as loudly and overexageratedly as possible when U5 happened. Note they are still here doing the same today. :p

The complaining about the game being "unplayable" is not very convincing when their next action after posting is to tab back in and play more DDO.


Chai, it's jsut another perfect example of the A-Typical rushed out poorly tested DDO product... As great as the game is, and yes there are some really cool things in this expansion... They suck at releases though, and as bad as this one is. Half of the broken stuff will never be fixed, until they completely overhaul the impacted system sometime in the long away future.

And the Pre/enhancement pass will be moved to around U-18 now... There's way too much broken here for them to even think about getting that done anytime this year. Wait no, they will ignore 50% of the currently broken incomplete stuff,a nd release yet another WOWish broken and incomplete system *To be finished at a later date MAYBE :D

[Hokiewa]

I agree. Im a developer too, theres no bug free software. But release an update with half (or more) of it bugged is stupid imo.

What do you develop?

[stainer]

What do you develop?

I was thinking the same thing.

[Chauncey1]

addict! and I've been floating on the forums most the day and not seen another case like this, so perhaps was a lag spike or internet line issue. Maybe some exchange somewhere had an issue, I remember you mentioning you 2 friends had the same problem, were they in same town as you or spread around the world? You could probably log back in now

One was in Florida, another in the Denver area and the other one in London.

[Hokiewa]

I was thinking the same thing.

Creepy.

[stainer]

Creepy.

You must be excited about all the Drama (TM Khyber) at UVa!

[Sonos]

If 2 year old hardware tech is your idea of quality, sure. Enjoy that i5 while I blow it out of the water on my i7. Oh and for half the price. Oh my mistake, they're using i7 chips finally in some of their more expensive models...so make that a quarter of the cost then.

Did I not say I have 2 computers in one? Yeah you can Hackintosh it but it's crappy at best. And as you get nickeled and dimed throughout the lifespan of your PC, remember this post. I've had to open up my Mac zero times in the past couple of years.

Desktops I go PC(i can Frankenstein it how I want), laptops, it's Mac for me, solid body, quality parts.

If you have little money, by all means go PC. If you have a little bit o' change, nothing wrong for springing for something a little nice to carrier around without fear of it crapping out.

[Hokiewa]

You must be excited about all the Drama (TM Khyber) at UVa!

I couldn't give two <insert word of choice> about UVa.

[stainer]

I couldn't give two <insert word of choice> about UVa.


Awww sunshine. You must be excited about the new football playoff system then. That will be an extra bowl game that Tech will be excluded from.

[smatt]

If 2 year old hardware tech is your idea of quality, sure. Enjoy that i5 while I blow it out of the water on my i7. Oh and for half the price. Oh my mistake, they're using i7 chips finally in some of their more expensive models...so make that a quarter of the cost then.


:rolleyes:

[Xynot2]

What do you develop?

Typical response to not having anything real to argue. Attack the person presenting the Issue instead of actually admitting there is an issue. I suppose I deserve my frustration at this thread. Argue with fanbois and they'll argue everything but the real issue.

/done with thread.

[stainer]

Typical response to not having anything real to argue. Attack the person presenting the Issue instead of actually admitting there is an issue. I suppose I deserve my frustration at this thread. Argue with fanbois and they'll argue everything but the real issue.

/done with thread.

I have some issues with changes in the game. I think it is a legitimate question though. He brought up that he was a developer. What is it?

[jadedfate]

Typical response to not having anything real to argue. Attack the person presenting the Issue instead of actually admitting there is an issue. I suppose I deserve my frustration at this thread. Argue with fanbois and they'll argue everything but the real issue.

/done with thread.

I won't say there aren't issues, but I don't see nearly the amount being claimed by others, and I've seen the issues that exist in every update for every mmo I've played. I know to expect some issues. It's the nature of the beast. No point wailing about it on a forum...encounter a bug, report it. If you don't like the new mechanics, stop playing. Pretty simple.

[eris2323]

It is amazing how many forum users are willing to settle for broken products because they don't think software can be done right.

And then it turns to this....

[Arnez]

One word- Mac



<cough> latest MacOS update has a BSOD <cough>

[Ganolyn]

Its proven that the managers in Turbine are incompetents, the company should fired them and find new and competent people.

I would like to take your position seriously, but your spelling and grammar are incompetent.

[The_Mighty_Cube]

*squish*