Tell me why I should go pure FvS instead of splashing 1 fighter

[Thrudh]

I have a half-orc 19/1 Fvs/fighter with a single wizard PL...

He's actually wisdom based, and decent at casting.

He doesn't melee as much as he did in the lower levels, but it's nice having the option to pull out the greataxe and beat down a bad guy.

Here's what he loses:

Free CLW or searing light capstone
1 9th level spell (That's painful only getting 2 of mass heal, implosion, and energy drain)
10 DR (But I have 5 DR armor, so really only losing 5 DR)


Here's what he gains:

Heavy Armor
Tower Shields
Martial weapons (Lit II greataxe, Terror)
One martial feat (Improved Critical: Slashing)
Haste Boost I (not that great since I already have damage boost from FvS)


Should I go back to pure or stay 19/1?

[Ape_Man]

Go Helf with fighter dilly. Stay pure and get your proficiencies to martial weapons. or go human and just use your extra feat on a proficiency.

[Eladiun]

I have a half-orc 19/1 Fvs/fighter with a single wizard PL...

He's actually wisdom based, and decent at casting.

He doesn't melee as much as he did in the lower levels, but it's nice having the option to pull out the greataxe and beat down a bad guy.

Here's what he loses:

Free CLW or searing light capstone
1 9th level spell (That's painful only getting 2 of mass heal, implosion, and energy drain)
10 DR (But I have 5 DR armor, so really only losing 5 DR)


Here's what he gains:

Heavy Armor
Tower Shields
Martial weapons (Lit II greataxe, Terror)
One martial feat (Improved Critical: Slashing)
Haste Boost I (not that great since I already have damage boost from FvS)


Should I go back to pure or stay 19/1?

Splash 2 Paly.

[Zyerz]

Half elf, fighter dilitantte, pure FVS with capstones unlocked! :D

[TrinityTurtle]

If you don't think you'd enjoy playing a pure favored soul, there is no reason in the world for you to do it. We're here to have fun, and if a splash build is your ultimate fun, more power to you!

[Thrudh]

Half-elf is a good idea, but then I'd have to TR again.

Plus my name fits a half-orc perfectly. :)

[Thebeest]

warforged pure fvs. 14 dr compared to your splash 5. granted capstone stinks but hey, when u r warforged u dont need cake.

[Xeraphim]

I have a half-orc 19/1 Fvs/fighter with a single wizard PL...

He's actually wisdom based, and decent at casting.

He doesn't melee as much as he did in the lower levels, but it's nice having the option to pull out the greataxe and beat down a bad guy.

Here's what he loses:

Free CLW or searing light capstone
1 9th level spell (That's painful only getting 2 of mass heal, implosion, and energy drain)
10 DR (But I have 5 DR armor, so really only losing 5 DR)
Ability to get into Guild Raid PuG slots
Respect of most groups he joins
Some spellpoints


Here's what he gains:

Heavy Armor
Tower Shields
Martial weapons (Lit II greataxe, Terror)
One martial feat (Improved Critical: Slashing)
Haste Boost I (not that great since I already have damage boost from FvS)


Should I go back to pure or stay 19/1?

For a Favored Soul (General FvS20):

Stay pure or you don't get into our raid's PuG slot. I recommend Mass Heal and Implosion. We see you run in melee, Greater Teleport will be cast. Furthermore, if you don't have that DR10/Epic, there is no reason you should even get into Haste spell range of hostile creatures without dropping a Blade Barrier.

By the way, we prefer Elite/Epic.


Counterpoint:

He's never getting into Epic PuGs. He's there for usual raids like Shroud and HoX (on Normal, with the extremely rare Hard attempt), farming IQ Casuals (Mindsunder; Dreaming Dark) and doing Challenges set on level 20. No need to go all Metagamer on the build. It is not made for extremely difficult quests and should never be looked at as though he will be doing content at that level. Therefore, rushing in melee to provide a tiny bump up in party DPS is just fine.


Build Analysis:
Half orcs have lower wisdom and charisma than most races can attain (as a total of both stats). They also have the lowest max HP total in the game, tied with Halfling. You shot yourself in the foot at the Character Creation screen if you wanted a character for Epic. I recommend therefore keeping it a strictly non-epic melee build due to the half orc two handed weapon enhancements. You're going to keep it around for easy content. If you want an Epic healer, you'll make a Human FvS Pure, max WIS and take at least 14 CON. The enhancements will include Human Healing Amplification III, Adaptability: Constitution, Greater Adaptability: Wisdom, Toughness 3 and some other lines I am oblivious of due to not having capped a healer since MOD 5 (2007). Feats will include Empower (standard, not Healing), Maximize, Quicken, Toughness. Empower Healing is strictly for healbots and I prefer to amp Blade Barrier up as much as possible when it becomes necessary, thus standard Empower. When grouped with a FvS that tosses BB's I expect to be able to use them as additional DPS in large increments. I am sorely disappointed when the BB is not Max/Emp'd with Sup Potency and Arcane Lore.

[scoobmx]

You lose 1 CL for spell pen, and amount that mass heal lands for.

[voodoogroves]

Make no changes now. Update coming and who knows what that will bring.

19/1 is a solid split.

[MRMechMan]

Capstone free heals (with gear/build it can be 150+ hp free every 6s...awesome), 1 pen, 1 9th level slot that could be something good (2 of impl/ED/MH...eugh), more sp, 10 DR...so much win!

vs

a bit (more) of melee. Proficencies.

For me pure is the way to go. Even as WF with DoD 18/2monk I prefered 20 pure, no contest. Bit of a different situation but my vote is pure still.

Particularly if you are wis based, pure is far stronger.

[Thrudh]

For a Favored Soul (General FvS20):

Stay pure or you don't get into our raid's PuG slot. I recommend Mass Heal and Implosion. We see you run in melee, Greater Teleport will be cast. Furthermore, if you don't have that DR10/Epic, there is no reason you should even get into Haste spell range of hostile creatures without dropping a Blade Barrier.

By the way, we prefer Elite/Epic.


Counterpoint:

He's never getting into Epic PuGs. He's there for usual raids like Shroud and HoX (on Normal, with the extremely rare Hard attempt), farming IQ Casuals (Mindsunder; Dreaming Dark) and doing Challenges set on level 20. No need to go all Metagamer on the build. It is not made for extremely difficult quests and should never be looked at as though he will be doing content at that level. Therefore, rushing in melee to provide a tiny bump up in party DPS is just fine.


Build Analysis:
Half orcs have lower wisdom and charisma than most races can attain (as a total of both stats). They also have the lowest max HP total in the game, tied with Halfling. You shot yourself in the foot at the Character Creation screen if you wanted a character for Epic. I recommend therefore keeping it a strictly non-epic melee build due to the half orc two handed weapon enhancements. You're going to keep it around for easy content. If you want an Epic healer, you'll make a Human FvS Pure, max WIS and take at least 14 CON. The enhancements will include Human Healing Amplification III, Adaptability: Constitution, Greater Adaptability: Wisdom, Toughness 3 and some other lines I am oblivious of due to not having capped a healer since MOD 5 (2007). Feats will include Empower (standard, not Healing), Maximize, Quicken, Toughness.

Heh, I appreciate your honesty...

I think you're little deluded about how hard most epic quests are and how difficult hard Shroud and hard Hox are (answer: Not very difficult).

Also, half-orcs lose 2 points from INT and CHA, not WIS, so they are just fine as divine casters. My WIS is maxed out, and he casts pretty well.

I don't rush in and melee when fighting raid bosses... but it is nice to take down a trash mob or two with my greataxe to save SP now and then...

The main thing I'm missing is the third 9th level spell. The DR I don't miss much. I'd really like to go pure, but I'd hate to lose the fighter proficiencies and the feat.

Thanks for the feedback.

[Thrudh]

Capstone free heals (with gear/build it can be 150+ hp free every 6s...awesome), 1 pen, 1 9th level slot that could be something good (2 of impl/ED/MH...eugh), more sp, 10 DR...so much win!

vs

a bit (more) of melee. Proficencies.

For me pure is the way to go. Even as WF with DoD 18/2monk I prefered 20 pure, no contest. Bit of a different situation but my vote is pure still.

Particularly if you are wis based, pure is far stronger.

You make a good case...

[voodoogroves]

Heh, I appreciate your honesty...

I think you're little deluded about how hard most epic quests are and how difficult hard Shroud and hard Hox are (answer: Not very difficult).

Also, half-orcs lose 2 points from INT and CHA, not WIS, so they are just fine as divine casters. My WIS is maxed out, and he casts pretty well.

I don't rush in and melee when fighting raid bosses... but it is nice to take down a trash mob or two with my greataxe to save SP now and then...

The main thing I'm missing is the third 9th level spell. The DR I don't miss much. I'd really like to go pure, but I'd hate to lose the fighter proficiencies and the feat.

Thanks for the feedback.

19/1 is the platform MANY people are using these days. It is VERY strong.

Honestly; I know a good number of folks on my own server that are doing this with their multi-lifers right now, and I'm pretty sure Nick's got Groan set up that way too.


Anyone who thinks 19/1 is some sort of horrid split is being too restrictive in their thinking.

[Xeraphim]

19/1 is the platform MANY people are using these days. It is VERY strong.

Honestly; I know a good number of folks on my own server that are doing this with their multi-lifers right now, and I'm pretty sure Nick's got Groan set up that way too.


Anyone who thinks 19/1 is some sort of horrid split is being too restrictive in their thinking.

There is a massive difference between an Evoker/Healer Epic FvS and a Melee/Melee/Healer FvS 19/1. One is specialized in staying out of harm's way and making big numbers happen fast. The other is specialized in frontline DPS complement with healing as a secondary priority (Quicken is always on).

FvS 20 = Epic Content Viable.
FvS 19/1 Ftr = Standard Content Viable.

That is the difference. The loss of one level determines the tactical positioning of the character, which effectively determines the answer to: Will the Healer be in too much danger on the frontlines, and if so should we Decline?

Think of Epic Elite Demon Queen. Do we want that FvS up in her face or do we want that FvS out of harm's way healing the party?
Elite ToD
Elite Hound
Epic VoN 6
etc.

Tactical analysis of your emotional opinion on others having narrow minds for declining the 19/1: Content Failure Risk. Do not accept join request.

[MRMechMan]

19/1 is the platform MANY people are using these days. It is VERY strong.

Honestly; I know a good number of folks on my own server that are doing this with their multi-lifers right now, and I'm pretty sure Nick's got Groan set up that way too.


Anyone who thinks 19/1 is some sort of horrid split is being too restrictive in their thinking.

19/1 is the best split.

If the 1 level is barb and you are TRing at level 20.

Otherwise, personally I would go pure in nearly every situation. (The one being a melee soloist with ESOS that is not particularly interested in raid healing [though can do it OK] and has a lot of gear/PLs...think that is Groans situation).

1 wizard past life, no ESoS and wis based and staying at 20=pure in my book, for sure.

[voodoogroves]

There is a massive difference between an Evoker/Healer Epic FvS and a Melee/Melee/Healer FvS 19/1. One is specialized in staying out of harm's way and making big numbers happen fast. The other is specialized in frontline DPS complement with healing as a secondary priority (Quicken is always on).

FvS 20 = Epic Content Viable.
FvS 19/1 Ftr = Standard Content Viable.

That is the difference. The loss of one level determines the tactical positioning of the character, which effectively determines the answer to: Will the Healer be in too much danger on the frontlines, and if so should we Decline?

Think of Epic Elite Demon Queen. Do we want that FvS up in her face or do we want that FvS out of harm's way healing the party?

Not if they can solo it.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=343699&highlight=nick

It sounds like you want the FVS to play a specific role - and that's great if it works for your guild.

It is restrictive though, and advice to any player to avoid it because they can't be the healer in your raids is somewhat poor advice. That split works fine, and is more than epic ready if you know how to play and invest a bit of time gearing.

[Xeraphim]

19/1 is the best split.

If the 1 level is barb and you are TRing at level 20.

Otherwise, personally I would go pure in nearly every situation. (The one being a melee soloist with ESOS that is not particularly interested in raid healing [though can do it OK] and has a lot of gear/PLs...think that is Groans situation).

1 wizard past life, no ESoS and wis based and staying at 20=pure in my book, for sure.


That's a point I hadn't addressed: The Intermediary Lives of a Multi-TR. That melee level is GREAT if indeed the character never does Epic content (or level 20 content for that matter) as that build and TRs immediately after getting that last XP point and popping out lvl 20.

If a Multi-TR however, I'd recommend pushing for more than 1 Wiz past life, and possibly 3 Sorc past lives as well for BB DC.

[Aashrym]

19/1 isn't a horrid split but I would have a hard time giving up the CLW capstone. That can cover a lot of healing while using the SP more offensively.

Fighter dilletante or just get some one to either cast or scroll masters touch for weapon proficiency.

[Thrudh]

There is a massive difference between an Evoker/Healer Epic FvS and a Melee/Melee/Healer FvS 19/1. One is specialized in staying out of harm's way and making big numbers happen fast. The other is specialized in frontline DPS complement with healing as a secondary priority (Quicken is always on).

FvS 20 = Epic Content Viable.
FvS 19/1 Ftr = Standard Content Viable.

That is the difference. The loss of one level determines the tactical positioning of the character, which effectively determines the answer to: Will the Healer be in too much danger on the frontlines, and if so should we Decline?

Think of Epic Elite Demon Queen. Do we want that FvS up in her face or do we want that FvS out of harm's way healing the party?

I understand your position, but keep this in mind... It IS possible to for ANY FvS build to stay back from combat and just heal.

Just because I have a fighter level doesn't mean I HAVE TO be on the frontlines.

Any 19/1 heals just as well as as 20. My particular 19/1 casts almost as well too (Max Wisdom, but missing Energy Drain and 1 Spell Pen). The fighter level just allows me to melee a bit in the easier quests (and there are plenty of epic quests that qualify as "easier")

I'm more of a Evoker/Healer who occasionally kills a Greater Commanded trash mob with his greataxe.

I understand that you're playing the odds... Most 19/1 Fvs/fighters will be melee focused and bad at offensive casting (but probably still good healers), but there's nothing inherent in the build that says a 19/1 FvS/fighter can't heal your epic raid just fine.

[Thrudh]

The loss of one level determines the tactical positioning of the character, which effectively determines the answer to: Will the Healer be in too much danger on the frontlines, and if so should we Decline?

Again, having one level of fighter doesn't magically transport me to the front lines. It's actually possible for me stand back in the harder epics just like a pure FvS. Really strange that you can't see that that is possible.

[baii]

Frontline? What are you talking about, so rouge/ranger/bard are not epic content viable?

LOL'd.

[baii]

Contrary to this rather silly observation, I made it quit painfully clear in previous posts the various situations the build may find itself in.

I'll attribute this response to not reading the thread.

Do you mind clarify rouge/ranger/bard role in a eeADQ2 scenario?

Thanks.

[Thrudh]

Xera... You still haven't answered my question..

Why can't a 19/1 FvS/fighter stand back in the harder epics and heal just like a 20 FvS? Healing is something they can both do equally well.

[Inferno346]

If a Multi-TR however, I'd recommend pushing for more than 1 Wiz past life, and possibly 3 Clr past lives as well for BB DC.

You sure do know what you are talking about!

[Postumus]

I have a half-orc 19/1 Fvs/fighter with a single wizard PL...

He's actually wisdom based, and decent at casting.

He doesn't melee as much as he did in the lower levels, but it's nice having the option to pull out the greataxe and beat down a bad guy.

Here's what he loses:

Free CLW or searing light capstone
1 9th level spell (That's painful only getting 2 of mass heal, implosion, and energy drain)
10 DR (But I have 5 DR armor, so really only losing 5 DR)


Here's what he gains:

Heavy Armor
Tower Shields
Martial weapons (Lit II greataxe, Terror)
One martial feat (Improved Critical: Slashing)
Haste Boost I (not that great since I already have damage boost from FvS)


Should I go back to pure or stay 19/1?

I had a blast playing my half-orc 19/1 FvS/Ftr. I thought it was more versatile than a L20 FvS overall for L1-18.

I don't care about the capstone, I wasn't a healing specced FvS anyway. I didn't like waiting that extra level for the wings, but since I am a Ftr haste boost addict, that made up for it overall.

I never ran him through epic content, because I find (current) epic content extremely boring. But I have no doubt he would have done just fine - or at least no worse than he would have as a pure FvS. :)

[baii]

You sure do know what you are talking about!

In additional to BB DC, Clr life also add to greater command DC, which will command mob to run through BB themselves.

Edit: Thanks, I will take notice next time.

[Inferno346]

in additional to bb dc, clr life also add to greater command dc, which will command mob to run through bb themselves.

:D

(obligatory lower case character goes here)

[Kakashi67]

That's a point I hadn't addressed: The Intermediary Lives of a Multi-TR. That melee level is GREAT if indeed the character never does Epic content (or level 20 content for that matter) as that build and TRs immediately after getting that last XP point and popping out lvl 20.

If a Multi-TR however, I'd recommend pushing for more than 1 Wiz past life, and possibly 3 Clr past lives as well for BB DC.

Don't forget the bard past life.

[Xeraphim]

Don't forget the bard past life.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Past_Life_Feats

Past Life Passive feat listing. Most of the maxed out builds are feat starved so I don't consider the taken feats.

If you have a problem saving against enchantments and illusions, Bard past lives are a definite course to head, especially if you are fighting Epic Drow (nudge nudge wink wink). +6 to saves vs those spell types are a definite plus.
If you find yourself dying in traps too often, consider 3 Rogue past lives as well for +6 saves vs traps.

The Taken feat only boosts Enchantment DCs by +1 so doesn't exactly help you contribute to the kill count, but is definitely beneficial in a pinch when you need to make an entire crowd sit down. That is, of course, if you manage to get through their Spell Resistance. On that note, take heed of the following:

Wizard Past Lives grant +2 per passive acquisition to Spell Penetration. The same is true of the Favored Soul past lives, but at a reduced rate (+1). Thus, with 3 PLs of Wizard and FvS each, you get +9 to total Spell Penetration checks from level 1 on. The 60 extra SP from the FvS PLs should help out too. If considering heading into the Menace of the Underdark, this will be invaluable.

On a related note to using BB: I see the Spell Type has been CHANGED to Evocation instead of Conjuration (like it was for over 4 years). Therefore, consider Sorc past lives to boost the BB DC instead of Cleric PLs.

[Quetzacoala]

Just because a favored soul takes a level of fighter does not mean that they lack the abilities to heal competently in end game scenarios; I fail to see how a 19 favored soul/1 fighter is any less of a healer than my level 20 warforged melee favored soul who is quite capable of healing endgame quests.

My character gets 10 DR and an extra level 9 spell, which are the only things that I receive that he does not. I fail to see how a character's DR affects their healing abilities; after all, clerics and bards manage without it. As for the additional level 9 spell, I currently have the spell Summon Monster IX prepared which does help my healing abilities whatsoever and yet, miraculously, I can still heal well.

[Kakashi67]

Whoooosh.

Swing and a miss.

[Chette]

What it really comes down to IMO is those 9th level spell slots. One caster level and one spell pen will be fairly trivial once you're into your epic levels, and the extra feat can really help out a favored soul that likes to both cast and melee (and a well built FvS that can instakill, crowd control, heal AND whip out their ESoS is a sight to behold).

The 10 DR capstone is pretty nice, but with your heavy armor proficiency from the splash you'll be able to get better PRR and AC with the new system coming with the update.

As for the free CLW and searing light...they're really not that powerful. They're great for a casting or healing favored soul, so that they have something they can throw around for free when they don't have other duties. But for a melee favoured soul, putting down the ESoS in order to cast a 60 hp cure, or a 120 damage searing light, is a waste of your time.

So I would stay as you are for now. At least until you play around with things a bit more when the expansion comes out. If you feel like you're missing that extra spell slot, or any of the other benefits, then go ahead and switch to pure. But I think you might find the extra feat more beneficial (assuming you're trying to fit in maximize, empower, quicken, heighten, wiz past life, toughness, power attack and improved critical, which can't be done on a pure non-human FvS)

[Sagittis]

this build reminds me of a cleric/barb i seen one day, I asked him why the barb? he replied, so I can run faster.

[Talon_Oakenleaf]

this build reminds me of a cleric/barb i seen one day, I asked him why the barb? he replied, so I can run faster.

lmao i love it.

[Gawdzilla]

For a Favored Soul (General FvS20):

Stay pure or you don't get into our raid's PuG slot. I recommend Mass Heal and Implosion. We see you run in melee, Greater Teleport will be cast. Furthermore, if you don't have that DR10/Epic, there is no reason you should even get into Haste spell range of hostile creatures without dropping a Blade Barrier.

By the way, we prefer Elite/Epic.


Counterpoint:

He's never getting into Epic PuGs. He's there for usual raids like Shroud and HoX (on Normal, with the extremely rare Hard attempt), farming IQ Casuals (Mindsunder; Dreaming Dark) and doing Challenges set on level 20. No need to go all Metagamer on the build. It is not made for extremely difficult quests and should never be looked at as though he will be doing content at that level. Therefore, rushing in melee to provide a tiny bump up in party DPS is just fine.


Build Analysis:
Half orcs have lower wisdom and charisma than most races can attain (as a total of both stats). They also have the lowest max HP total in the game, tied with Halfling. You shot yourself in the foot at the Character Creation screen if you wanted a character for Epic. I recommend therefore keeping it a strictly non-epic melee build due to the half orc two handed weapon enhancements. You're going to keep it around for easy content. If you want an Epic healer, you'll make a Human FvS Pure, max WIS and take at least 14 CON. The enhancements will include Human Healing Amplification III, Adaptability: Constitution, Greater Adaptability: Wisdom, Toughness 3 and some other lines I am oblivious of due to not having capped a healer since MOD 5 (2007). Feats will include Empower (standard, not Healing), Maximize, Quicken, Toughness. Empower Healing is strictly for healbots and I prefer to amp Blade Barrier up as much as possible when it becomes necessary, thus standard Empower. When grouped with a FvS that tosses BB's I expect to be able to use them as additional DPS in large increments. I am sorely disappointed when the BB is not Max/Emp'd with Sup Potency and Arcane Lore.Lol non pure fvs can,t perform in or be allowed into epic quests? That may be the stupidest most closed minded thing I have seen posted in the forums in a long while. If your guild requires full time nannybots to stand around doing nothing but heal and throw the odd BB when you deem appropriate you're doing it way wrong.

[Thrudh]

What it really comes down to IMO is those 9th level spell slots.

That's the real pain of splashing... I would love to have three 9th level spells instead of 2.


The 10 DR capstone is pretty nice, but with your heavy armor proficiency from the splash you'll be able to get better PRR and AC with the new system coming with the update.

That's an excellent point which pushes me back to fighter splash... Heavy armor (with 5 DR) is definitely worth more than 10 DR in medium armor

[biggin]

The 10 DR capstone is pretty nice, but with your heavy armor proficiency from the splash you'll be able to get better PRR and AC with the new system coming with the update.

As for the free CLW and searing light...they're really not that powerful. They're great for a casting or healing favored soul, so that they have something they can throw around for free when they don't have other duties. But for a melee favoured soul, putting down the ESoS in order to cast a 60 hp cure, or a 120 damage searing light, is a waste of your time.



Sorry, but you are dead wrong about the free CLW. With healing amp the way it is you can easily keep a well built tank-type up with nothing but that free capstone freeing you to swing away while also keeping dots going. My CLW easily hits for 160+ (we won't talk about 350+ crits) on someone with decent healing amp and now that we are seeing more and more Earth monks as tanks it's a very strong option. I won't even bring up how many groups use it as part of the scroll cycle in eLoB.

Basically you just need to examine the content you run and what type of character best fits it. I only use my FVS for raid/epic healing so my goals may be different than yours. Basically, if your toon is doing what you want it to do go for it. If you find yourself being denied for epics or raids based on your class split, you have to decide if it's more fun to play your way or be included.

[badbob117]

Both are really fun builds. I personally would stick with fvs/fighter, If you enjoy the odd melee. To lose all martial weps aside form longswords really is no fun at all for a player who enjoys getting his hands dirty if need be.

I would wait though. Would wait until they release all the pre's to do a lesser. Your same build could be the new go to build in a month or two. To hard to tell at this point.

I have 2 fvs. 1 melee and one evoker. Both are extremely fun and play quite a bit differently. All depends on what you like. Both are so fun that i would not want to choose between the two!

When in doubt, Roll up another :D

[Thrudh]

When in doubt, Roll up another :D

Heh, I should add that to my sig!

[Sagittis]

Just don't get why, if you want a melee fvs then go the soul survior build which can still heal raids by swapping gear. People get wrapped up in these spash builds when in reality it's not better then a pure build. this is a clear case, you are mixing a greyhound with a puddle. Do us all a favor and roll back the fighter level to a FVS and spare us the "omg I don't want that guy in my raid, he obviously doesn't know what he's doing" comments.

[Atremus]

If a Multi-TR however, I'd recommend pushing for more than 1 Wiz past life, and possibly 3 Clr past lives as well for BB DC.

BB = evocation

Sorc PL is evocation

Fun read

[Xeraphim]

<snip>
The 10 DR capstone is pretty nice, but with your heavy armor proficiency from the splash you'll be able to get better PRR and AC with the new system coming with the update.<chop>

The new systems are confusing to those without the time to pore over them like mathematicians.

Until August, the subject is worthy of discussion. After the Update, the current discussion will become void and the topic will need revisitation by debate and analysis.

[FrancisP.Fancypants]

Go Helf with fighter dilly. Stay pure and get your proficiencies to martial weapons. or go human and just use your extra feat on a proficiency.

This. I went the human/extra feat route and took greataxe. Switched it out once it was becoming useless.

[Chette]

Sorry, but you are dead wrong about the free CLW. With healing amp the way it is you can easily keep a well built tank-type up with nothing but that free capstone freeing you to swing away while also keeping dots going. My CLW easily hits for 160+ (we won't talk about 350+ crits) on someone with decent healing amp and now that we are seeing more and more Earth monks as tanks it's a very strong option. I won't even bring up how many groups use it as part of the scroll cycle in eLoB.

Basically you just need to examine the content you run and what type of character best fits it. I only use my FVS for raid/epic healing so my goals may be different than yours. Basically, if your toon is doing what you want it to do go for it. If you find yourself being denied for epics or raids based on your class split, you have to decide if it's more fun to play your way or be included.

If you are healing for 160+ then the person you are healing must have massive and totally unreasonable healing amp.

My pure melee FvS used to have the free CLW capstone, and with maximize, empower, AND empower healing, with maxed out life magic and 75% devotion clicky, it healed for about 70 hp on an average character (i.e. somebody with maybe 20% amp). Since a build of this type will definitely NOT have empowered healing, they're looking at about 50 hp restored on a typical character, and maybe 100 on a typical tank.

If you run solely with 300% healing amp tanks and want to save a few sp, fine, go ahead and take the capstone. There are definitely a few places it is useful, and the sole reason I took it on my FvS before was for eLoB. But in 99% of content, it will not be worth putting down the sword to use it.

Definitely a matter of personal choice, and dependent upon what sort of content you run. I'll not dismiss any build that employs it, but I don't think it's a particularly good fit for the sort of build that the OP is talking about (one that both offensively casts and melees).

[Enoach]

I have a half-orc 19/1 Fvs/fighter with a single wizard PL...

He's actually wisdom based, and decent at casting.

He doesn't melee as much as he did in the lower levels, but it's nice having the option to pull out the greataxe and beat down a bad guy.

Here's what he loses:

Free CLW or searing light capstone
1 9th level spell (That's painful only getting 2 of mass heal, implosion, and energy drain)
10 DR (But I have 5 DR armor, so really only losing 5 DR)


Here's what he gains:

Heavy Armor
Tower Shields
Martial weapons (Lit II greataxe, Terror)
One martial feat (Improved Critical: Slashing)
Haste Boost I (not that great since I already have damage boost from FvS)


Should I go back to pure or stay 19/1?

I want to build on your loss and gain list and put it into perspective of your play style.

First lets talk about the loses


Free CLW or searing light capstone <- Not huge, but can be a resource saver using it in place of a Heal Scroll with Cure/Heal on a tank with Healing amplification. While not significant as SP goes you also lose 2 Charisma or +1 to skill checks associated with charisma - UMD being one of these. As a melee capable player spells like Fireshield through UMD can help level the playing field against heavy Fire/Ice attacks
1 9th level spell (That's painful only getting 2 of mass heal, implosion, and energy drain) <- This is a tight choice, Mass Heal is a good source of Large Group Healing best used in heavy fire situations but often overhealing - However, Using the Mass Cures with the right enhancements is a faster cast time and can be used to also keep large groups up - Less risk of overhealing, but more risk on underhealing.
10 DR (But I have 5 DR armor, so really only losing 5 DR) <- The FvS DR 10 is to a single Metal type, it is rare for mobs to carry cold iron/silver/adi weapons. That being said the benefit of the DR is more that it does not matter what armor you are wearing, cloth to heavy plate you will still have the DR.


Now for your gain list


Heavy Armor <- If this is the type of armor you want to wear than yes this is a benefit - however if your wearing a Medium armor and never plan to use Heavy - than this really is not a gain for your build
Tower Shields <- If you plan to use Tower Shields while you melee then yes its a gain - if not as I suspect since you plan on using two handed weapons the bonus doesn't help your build. Also this feature can be replicated with the use of Master Touch Scrolls having a 10 UMD total score is 50% success before ASF that is...
Martial weapons (Lit II greataxe, Terror) <- Two handed weapon proficiency is harder to deal with without feat expenditure - specific race (WF follower of LOB). However, if you are running with a static group that contains someone able to cast Master Touch on you than you can get the benefit temporarily.
One martial feat (Improved Critical: Slashing) <- Good choice for melee capable as it will increase your critical range for you weapons of choice.
Haste Boost I (not that great since I already have damage boost from FvS) <- You are correct you can't run these at the same time so in this context they would be different ways to increase your Melee DPS so you would be asking Faster or Harder


The loss of one Spell Penetration only effects your use of Spell Pen check required spells and will only give you trouble in areas where Spell Resistant is high.

However, by no means are you gimp'd at healing any more than a pure. You've just given yourself more options. I've seen some of the hardest content in game made to look easy by 17/3 [3, 2/1] splits as well as 18/2 [2, 1/1] splits. The key is playing to your strengths as a player, not building the flavor of the week to be disappointed right after because something new/better came along.

You will also loose one die off any spell that has a Cap of 20 or higher.

One of the most important lessons to learn as a Cleric/FvS/Bard is when to get your hands dirty and when to step back and hold the group up.
Since

[Chette]

Just don't get why, if you want a melee fvs then go the soul survior build which can still heal raids by swapping gear. People get wrapped up in these spash builds when in reality it's not better then a pure build. this is a clear case, you are mixing a greyhound with a puddle. Do us all a favor and roll back the fighter level to a FVS and spare us the "omg I don't want that guy in my raid, he obviously doesn't know what he's doing" comments.

No, please, keep the splash.

I want to continue seeing the "omg I don't want that guy in my raid, he obviously doesn't know what he's doing" comments so that I can easily identify the people who are absolutely clueless and not worth grouping with.

(For the record both of my FvS are pure right now. Not because pure are better, but because pure are easier to play/gear out. At least one of them will end up going back to a splash build, but not until she has quite a few more past lives and gear. The advanced builds aren't for everybody though...)

[Kakashi67]

Just don't get why, if you want a melee fvs then go the soul survior build which can still heal raids by swapping gear. People get wrapped up in these spash builds when in reality it's not better then a pure build. this is a clear case, you are mixing a greyhound with a puddle. Do us all a favor and roll back the fighter level to a FVS and spare us the "omg I don't want that guy in my raid, he obviously doesn't know what he's doing" comments.

I don't like the smell of wet dogs.

[biggin]

.

If you run solely with 300% healing amp tanks and want to save a few sp, fine, go ahead and take the capstone. There are definitely a few places it is useful, and the sole reason I took it on my FvS before was for eLoB. But in 99% of content, it will not be worth putting down the sword to use it.

Definitely a matter of personal choice, and dependent upon what sort of content you run. I'll not dismiss any build that employs it, but I don't think it's a particularly good fit for the sort of build that the OP is talking about (one that both offensively casts and melees).

I guess we just play our FVS differently. If your CLW heals almost as much as a heal scroll then you never have to put your sword away to switch to scroll healing. And I don't think high healing amp is really that uncommon, at least not among the top players of Thelanis where the OP calls home. Noone needs to be standing in front of eLoB or in Elite TOD without a metric ton of healing amp and/or AC to begin with.

But like I said, healing these raids may not even be a goal for him. Also it doesn't mean he has to heal the main tank in every raid he goes on. His current build would be much more fun, say in an eDA with a Terror than mine, no doubt about it. That same eLoB he could heal the party just fine. But with the new expansion around the corner he will be much more likely to see the new raids and quests on elite epic if he's not in a top end raiding guild with a pure build than a splash one. If a healbot roll in raids isn't for him than swing away. I just don't think I've ever seen an LFM on Thelanis that said "Melee FVS needed". Ever.

[morticianjohn]

snipped

Elite ToD
Elite Hound
Epic VoN 6
etc.




elite ToD - scroll healing for final fight. build split matters none
elite hound - again it doesn't matter since you're not using melee as a healer in this raid until after healing the dogs is over with

epic von 6 - would much rather have a melee healer since that is 2-3 fewer fire breath's to avoid. This is one of a handful of situations where a melee divine will outpreform a high DC caster divine in the current metagame.

[biggin]

elite ToD - scroll healing for final fight. build split matters none
elite hound - again it doesn't matter since you're not using melee as a healer in this raid until after healing the dogs is over with

epic von 6 - would much rather have a melee healer since that is 2-3 fewer fire breath's to avoid. This is one of a handful of situations where a melee divine will outpreform a high DC caster divine in the current metagame.

elite tod- disagree; you can cycle free CLW and use a Heal to catch up from time to time with a high AC tank and you can swing away without having to use scrolls, same reason you gave for evon6
elite hound-every divine turns into a healbot unless you are running patrols; either is fine
evon6-100% agree, love seeing those wf FVS with an eSoS in there gettin busy

It may seem I'm against the splash but really I'm not. However, without a strong guild/friends to back you up you are at the mercy of the PUG scene and it's quite pitiful on Thelanis ATM. It's like getting a tattoo. They don't bother me but some future employer may not like the bar code on your forehead so I would advise against it. Everytime you hit a LFM you are subject to other people's opinions, right or wrong. I just don't see the splash as such an added benefit that it's worth sitting around to get in groups.

Try it out pure, if you don't like the playstyle you can use it for end game raiding and use your melee build for when you feel like having some melee fun. Once people know you can competently heal and do other things at the same time switch back. When people fill groups if they don't know you or your guild, all they have to go on is build. With all things being equal, if I needed a healer for epic raiding and a pure and splash both hit my LFM at the same time I would probably pick the pure. Melee divines contribute much more to groups when played correctly and cause wipes if they don't. It always comes back to the person behind the keyboard and if you aren't well known (and I know a lot of people on my server) you will more often than not be passed up over a pure healer.

I had a Norm Shroud wipe the other day for taking a 'battle cleric'. He was all jazzed about getting in the fray and forgot to mention that he didn't have Quicken (the other healer DC'd). Before we even knew what happened we had 11 dead party members. Again, this goes to the person playing not the build but sometimes when people take a gamble on a healer it's more reassuring to know that Mr. Scared in a Corner will do nothing but heal rather than try to do 2 things at once when he probably can't even do one.

[Enoach]

...

If you run solely with 300% healing amp tanks and want to save a few sp, fine, go ahead and take the capstone. There are definitely a few places it is useful, and the sole reason I took it on my FvS before was for eLoB. But in 99% of content, it will not be worth putting down the sword to use it.

Definitely a matter of personal choice, and dependent upon what sort of content you run. I'll not dismiss any build that employs it, but I don't think it's a particularly good fit for the sort of build that the OP is talking about (one that both offensively casts and melees).


I guess we just play our FVS differently. If your CLW heals almost as much as a heal scroll then you never have to put your sword away to switch to scroll healing. And I don't think high healing amp is really that uncommon, at least not among the top players of Thelanis where the OP calls home. Noone needs to be standing in front of eLoB or in Elite TOD without a metric ton of healing amp and/or AC to begin with.

But like I said, healing these raids may not even be a goal for him. Also it doesn't mean he has to heal the main tank in every raid he goes on. His current build would be much more fun, say in an eDA with a Terror than mine, no doubt about it. That same eLoB he could heal the party just fine. But with the new expansion around the corner he will be much more likely to see the new raids and quests on elite epic if he's not in a top end raiding guild with a pure build than a splash one. If a healbot roll in raids isn't for him than swing away. I just don't think I've ever seen an LFM on Thelanis that said "Melee FVS needed". Ever.

Even with 140%+ Healing Amplification on yourself, this is a good source of no-Spell Point healing to keep yourself up while your kiting with Blade Barriers - Better than a Cure Serious potion by both amount and with Quicken applied in reliability when getting hit. I use it to keep myself up while soloing content to save spell points for other things, as well as using it on good Amp players, or just to top off another player - It costs me time, and when your running to the next fight you have a bit of that to spare.

[Theolin]

From my perspective .... which is get to 20 and TR .... so take the following as you will
Since I don't really care about the capstone

Possibilities (and I love annoying the healbot purists & I refuse to actually play one)

Helf with ftr dili - pure (was a fun life)

19/1 ftr pick a race (was fun but like above better - hated waiting for the extra level for spells)

19/1 wiz any race gets +20% to BB :) ,a feat, and can use masters touch to swing away & with minimum 5 minute buffs(coming) might be worth a few other level 1 arcane spells & some scrolled level 2 -4 ones (was good on the cleric life I did loved the extra BB damage)

19/1 arti human(feat issue), I think the force enhancement is available(could be wrong here as I have no personal experience) so 20% BB, arti scroll enhancement instead of 2 divine ones, xbow when wanted(might want zen archery), masters touch for melee & arti infusion for extra aoe healing (its level 1 so 4 sps + metas - hits around 40-70 with just empower), oh and full UMD :)

18/2 arti human(feat issue), additional problem only 1 lvl 9 spell but otherwise as above but with rune arm heal scroll fun or rune arm xbow (did something similar with no mass heal)

All depends on how you like to play .... they are all fun & I have done most of them in some form.

And besides if you don't like one you can always TR/GR/LR into something else :D

[justagame]

To me, the biggest drawback of the splash (other than missing DR/capstone) is the delay in getting the good spells as you level.

I'm sure you know all this, but at level 11 cleric has blade barrier, heal, and mass cure moderate. At level 12, he can add one of cometfall, banishment, harm, what have you.

At level 12, a pure FVS gets ONE of these.

With a fighter splash, you get ONE of the above at level 13, a second at level 14. It just feels like much less flexibility as you're levelling. And yes, as you mentioned, at cap you lose out on one level 9 spell.

You're waiting until level 15 for destruction.

You're waiting until level 19 for even one level 9 spell. (And on a TR, that means you're likely waiting until you've capped).

[Stormraiser]

There is a massive difference between an Evoker/Healer Epic FvS and a Melee/Melee/Healer FvS 19/1. One is specialized in staying out of harm's way and making big numbers happen fast. The other is specialized in frontline DPS complement with healing as a secondary priority (Quicken is always on).

FvS 20 = Epic Content Viable.
FvS 19/1 Ftr = Standard Content Viable.

That is the difference. The loss of one level determines the tactical positioning of the character, which effectively determines the answer to: Will the Healer be in too much danger on the frontlines, and if so should we Decline?

Think of Epic Elite Demon Queen. Do we want that FvS up in her face or do we want that FvS out of harm's way healing the party?
Elite ToD
Elite Hound
Epic VoN 6
etc.

Tactical analysis of your emotional opinion on others having narrow minds for declining the 19/1: Content Failure Risk. Do not accept join request.

So you're saying the class split determines the strategy of the player? Or are you saying that by taking that 1 fighter level, all of a sudden Tenser's transformation is cast on you and you automatically run to fight the boss and not heal anyone ever?

Considering how easy some of the current epics are that a level 12 fvs could heal the party in them I don't think you can draw such conclusions.

And if you think that a 19/1 is obviously gimp and can't do any epic content why don't you tell that to the 18fvs 2 fighter who did every non raid epic quest. Solo.

[Meat-Head]

I just did a 19/1 horc melee cleric life.

I disliked it.



1. The DPS is lame. I tried to focus on having solid melee dps for a melee cleric. Divine might, Hasteboost, PA, horc enhancements, short term spells, max str, haste clickies, Lit2 falchion, min2 falchion, trip pos maul. I was actually focusing on melee more, and I still thought it was mediocre. It ended up being faster running **** through my crappy bb most of the time even though they were always saving for half!

2. IF you wanna be a caster, go pure human. You'll end up better overall imo.

3. Horc caster fvs with a split and a minor focus in melee is not really reaching his potential on either front.

4. I re-rolled my horc to a helf 18/2 clonk wis-based stunner. Stunning fist = I do more dmg and so does EVERYONE ELSE! WIN! Stuns+Alch wraps + tod rings+sneak dmg +cove gloves+slightly faster attackrate= more melee dps potential than any twohander melee divine except an esos user. (Even then I'd be interested in seeing the math)

5. I would personally specialize as more of a caster (pure) or more of a melee (splits ok).

6. If YOU like your 19/1 build, then every1 else can take a leap imo.


7. When I see people advertising reporting ppl for silly little comments on game forums, I have feelings inside that make me pity that person. Notice I didn't insult anyone, but just reported my own feelings. :D

[Thrudh]

19/1 wiz any race gets +20% to BB :) ,a feat, and can use masters touch to swing away & with minimum 5 minute buffs(coming) might be worth a few other level 1 arcane spells & some scrolled level 2 -4 ones (was good on the cleric life I did loved the extra BB damage)

That's an interesting split.

[Therrias]

I love it when people who have obviously never played a divine caster in meaningful content attempt to tell you "how it has to be done, or else you're gimp"

Wait did I say love, I meant hate.

True quote from in-game:
"But without Wisdom, your heals will be gimped." /headslap (you only need 19 wis to cast all your spells)

Healing = caster level + spell power + lore (and indirectly + healing amp)
That's it. Assuming that all max out their healing enhancements and gear, the melee divine heals the same amount as the evoker divine and even the healbot divine.

Clerics even get 2 bonus caster levels from their prestige, so they can go 18/2 and still not lose any healing power from mass heal.

[Antheal]

It sounds like 19 FvS / 1 Fighter is a good way to prevent yourself from having to suffer from grouping with elitist jerks.

[Schmoe]

Blade Barrier has been Conjuration since at least the year 2000. I don't know what it was in AD&D since I don't have those books with me, but when and where was Blade Barrier a Conjuration spell?

I think you meant "Blade Barrier has been Evocation since at least the year 2000."

Anyway, it was Evocation in 3rd edition (as you sort of mentioned). It was also Evocation in 1st edition. In fact, I don't think Blade Barrier has ever been a Conjuration spell.

[PopeJual]

I think you meant "Blade Barrier has been Evocation since at least the year 2000."

Anyway, it was Evocation in 3rd edition (as you sort of mentioned). It was also Evocation in 1st edition. In fact, I don't think Blade Barrier has ever been a Conjuration spell.

Doh. Me typo no pretty today. Schmoe is right.

[Faent]

That is the difference. The loss of one level determines the tactical positioning of the character, which effectively determines the answer to: Will the Healer be in too much danger on the frontlines, and if so should we Decline?

Think of Epic Elite Demon Queen. Do we want that FvS up in her face or do we want that FvS out of harm's way healing the party?
Elite ToD
Elite Hound
Epic VoN 6
etc.

Tactical analysis of your emotional opinion on others having narrow minds for declining the 19/1: Content Failure Risk. Do not accept join request.

This is ridiculous. I mean, if you want to try to make the point you're trying to make, at least provide a cogent argument for it. Since when is this 19/1 FvS going to be "up in Lailait's face" in Epic Elite DQ? Are you absolutely nuts?

Edit: Given that Xeraphim has reported someone for "baiting and harrassment" for this comment "Frontline? What are you talking about, so rouge/ranger/bard are not epic content viable? LOL'd." I fully expect him to report me for making the above comment. Let him.

[Eighnuss]

My guild doesn't always run Elite/Epic Raids,

But when we do, we pug healers.


nuff said

[FranOhmsford]

Blade Barrier has been Conjuration since at least the year 2000. I don't know what it was in AD&D since I don't have those books with me, but when and where was Blade Barrier a Conjuration spell?

2nd Ed. Blade Barrier = Lvl 6 spell, Sphere - Guardian/Creation, School - Evocation.

[justagame]

19/1 wiz any race gets +20% to BB :)

That might work for cleric, but for a FVS, I'm not sure that bonus stacks with AOV. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to recall reading at some point that it didn't stack.)

[PopeJual]

Wizard Past Lives grant +2 per passive acquisition to Spell Penetration. The same is true of the Favored Soul past lives, but at a reduced rate (+1). Thus, with 3 PLs of Wizard and FvS each, you get +9 to total Spell Penetration checks from level 1 on.

Thanks for this tip. I'm sure that most of us in this thread were unaware of the fact that you could increase your spell penetration by taking Wizard and FvS past lives.

[FranOhmsford]

nuff said

Shouldn't there be a pic to go with this?

I'm sure someone's got the requisite know how to sort it out for us.


BTW Just thought I'd post this:

http://my.ddo.com/xeraphim/

[njneer75]

im not gonna give you any build advice just advice based on my experience. Started playing the game at launch with a cleric and still play one till this day. I too just recently attempted a fvs melee build based on the elf 18fvs/2m twf. Fun to level, fun to solo but like Xeraphim said when it comes down to the nuts and bolts of what you are in the group for, its healing. raids and epics go very smooth (assuming others are doing their respective jobs) when you are just healing. you will need every bit of sp to heal the epics quests and raids. i cant remember the last time i threw an offensive spell on my cleric in one of those. when you see other clerics and fvs tossing BB's and destruction, yeah it looks pretty but what your not seeing is them drinking pots as well to supplement their sp. there may be an exception to this rule running around who has the best gear and twitch skills and a great eye to watch everything going on at once but it is very rare. I gave up on my fvs and LR'd back into pure. when you want things to go right with much less a chance for them to go wrong, you just gotta heal.

something else you have to take into account is error associated with player stupiness. you will inevitably waste mana on people in quest because they didnt do what they were told, were zerging, jumped out when targeted to heal, etc. all this pulls from your sp pool and unless you have enough money to buy whatever you want in the pay to win store, your gonna need that mana.

[Osharan_Tregarth]

For a Favored Soul (General FvS20):

Stay pure or you don't get into our raid's PuG slot.





Excellent.


Thank you for letting me know that I should avoid your guild runs.

[Osharan_Tregarth]

Excellent.


Thank you for letting me know that I should avoid your guild runs.

Now, anyway, back to the original topic before it was so neatly hijacked.

I ran an elf 18/2 FVS/Fighter for a bit.. Since I was a twf'er, I definitely needed those extra feats.

The dps was reasonable(not on par with a kensai or barb, but decent), and the heals were also decent. It ended up being a well rounded character that could swap between melee'ing when there was a dedicated healer in the party, or healing when there wasn't.

When I was solo healing a raid party, I would end up eating a mana pot or two depending on which raid it was, but other than that I didn't really notice any real differences(healing wise) between the melee/heal specc'd fvs(18/2) or my casting/healing specc'd fvs (20).

Not having all three level 9 spells was an irritant, but was doable since I wasn't casting much anyway.

For a primary casting/healing fvs that does the occasional backup melee, I don't really think you're adding enough to justify splashing however. And I base that mainly on the loss of the higher level spells.

[AtomicMew]

I find that I rather enjoy the Epic content, despite the apprehension I often recieve when trying to join a group for it, for preferring a Monk. I join Raids for the fun of them, and run Dungeons for the tokens, to gain True Hearts of Wood for my Reincarnations, Epic items, and perhaps some nice random loot to hand down to a newbie or two.

I’m quite frustrated about being excluded from the private chat channels, but don’t expect any of those folks to actually give a ****. Many of them are amoral psychopathic individualists anyway, so it’s probably for the better.


Stay pure or you don't get into our raid's PuG slot. I recommend Mass Heal and Implosion. We see you run in melee, Greater Teleport will be cast. Furthermore, if you don't have that DR10/Epic, there is no reason you should even get into Haste spell range of hostile creatures without dropping a Blade Barrier.

Can you guys imagine that the above two quotes were posted by the same people? I can hardly, but it's true. I wonder what happened to change a person so much.

[ainmosni]

Can you guys imagine that the above two quotes were posted by the same people? I can hardly, but it's true. I wonder what happened to change a person so much.

lol

[Faent]

Can you guys imagine that the above two quotes were posted by the same people? I can hardly, but it's true. I wonder what happened to change a person so much.

Can we get dates? That's funny. Thanks for the digging. +1 to you.

[ShadowFlash]

That might work for cleric, but for a FVS, I'm not sure that bonus stacks with AOV. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to recall reading at some point that it didn't stack.)

Last I heard, you are correct...they will not stack. Still nice for the extra meta-feat though.

For a FvS, a sorcerer splash will accomplish the same thing (master's touch)... lose a fighter feat, haste boost (not as relevant due to damage boost), and 16hp (toughness I + HD change)... but has the added benefit of double-dipping the SP pool without affecting your +100% gain from items (+95 Fvs, +5sorc) for a minimum 140SP gain...popular choice among healbots, but worth considering in the OP's case, but probably not worth the feat loss.

ShadowFlash

[Osharan_Tregarth]

Can we get dates? That's funny. Thanks for the digging. +1 to you.

Hey! That was my digging!!! :p


Posted On: March 28th, 2010

[Ugumagre]

Hey! That was my digging!!! :p


Posted On: March 28th, 2010

Hmmm...maybe after 2 years more playing he was not a newb anymore, gained access to the "creme de la creme" of DDO society, and began looking down to other players? There are reports that kids being abused turn into abusers when they grow up.
But that is all really preposterous. I think Xeraphim is just trying to help Trudh with wise advice, but you turn on him like a bunch of atheistic abusers.

[Chilldude]

I have a half-orc 19/1 Fvs/fighter with a single wizard PL...


Should I go back to pure or stay 19/1?

My main used to be an air savant, but ever since I've capped my pure human FVS I can't stop playing him. I've seen a lot of different builds work very well, but to me, I really enjoy being pure. The free CLW is a lot nicer than you might expect from the sound of it. I took emp healing, emp, and max... I could probably live without the emp healing, but with it my CLW crits over 200. I was surprised to find that I use it constantly. If one person is taking slow and steady damage, the free CLW often keeps up. It really stretches my mana a lot further than you would think. In epics I can usually top everyone off in between battles with it. Sometimes, even when I'm oom, the free CLW saves the day. I very rarely throw any heal spell on myself other than the free CLW.

The 10 dr isn't very noticable, in most situations, in epics. A lot of the trash in epics can take a huge chunk of a barb's hp bar with one swipe. However, the 10 dr is outstanding when there are a lot of ranged, especially orthons which seem to have a taste for FVS.

The first 10 or so levels can be a pain for pure, but after that the melee class level becomes a liability in my opinion. You are always one spell level behind, and without the feats and STR to support it, your melee will never be more than meh.

If the only reason you have a melee level at cap is to melee, I'd say you'd probably be better off without it.

[AtomicMew]

There are reports that kids being abused turn into abusers when they grow up.
But that is all really preposterous.
Getting off topic, but: https://www.google.com/search?q=monkey+stair+banana

You're welcome :)


atheistic abusers
I definitely agree with this statement.

[stoerm]

I have a half-orc 19/1 Fvs/fighter with a single wizard PL...

He's actually wisdom based, and decent at casting.


There is a massive difference between an Evoker/Healer Epic FvS and a Melee/Melee/Healer FvS 19/1. One is specialized in staying out of harm's way and making big numbers happen fast. The other is specialized in frontline DPS complement with healing as a secondary priority (Quicken is always on).


So which category does the OP fall into? ^^

I personally played one pure caster specced cleric to cap, and I don't plan playing a divine without melee capability ever again. Just my preference.

[MindCake]

19/1 wiz any race gets +20% to BB :) ,a feat, and can use masters touch to swing away & with minimum 5 minute buffs(coming) might be worth a few other level 1 arcane spells & some scrolled level 2 -4 ones (was good on the cleric life I did loved the extra BB damage)

I don't think that works. Unlike the other elements' enhancements, force manipulation requires two levels of wizard, artificer or sorcerer.

Supposedly, the reason for that is to discourage the 1 level splash. *shrug*

[Ugumagre]

I don't think that works. Unlike the other elements' enhancements, force manipulation requires two levels of wizard, artificer or sorcerer.

Supposedly, the reason for that is to discourage the 1 level splash. *shrug*

1) I know for sure that with 1 lvl Arti you can get force manipulation. I have read in the forums that it also works with wizzard or sorcerer.

2) I am quite sure that I read somewhere that it doesnt stack with AoV. That is the reason why you may see 19/1 Cleric/sorc or wiz or arti, but not so with FvS.
I have to find the thread, it was quite spiced, with a lot of people harrassing, backbiting and abusing in an atheistic manner.

I have found this other thread, I cannot find the nice one:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=323084

[-Zephyr-]

I don't think that works. Unlike the other elements' enhancements, force manipulation requires two levels of wizard, artificer or sorcerer.

Supposedly, the reason for that is to discourage the 1 level splash. *shrug*

You have to be lvl 2 character, lvl 1 wizard. Yes, you won't have force manipulation in korthos. But once 1 FvS/1 wiz, you will have it.

And it does not stack with AoV. Probably won't stack with the cleric offensive caster PrE either when they add it.

[Jsbeer]

as a first life level 19 fvs I managed to solo heal hard hox (your listed hard content) in a guild run.

Slightly off-topic, but this is seems impressive - was this without pots though? I have a okay geared newly capped FvS and while I have solo(ish with help form a bard) healed Normal Shroud, I would be wary about Hard VoD.



P.s. Meh, just realised Hard HoX and not Hard VoD. (Since from my experience when things go to hell in HoX it really doesn't matter too much as you are almost certainly dead anyway...)

[MindCake]

You have to be lvl 2 character, lvl 1 wizard. Yes, you won't have force manipulation in korthos. But once 1 FvS/1 wiz, you will have it.

And it does not stack with AoV. Probably won't stack with the cleric offensive caster PrE either when they add it.

Ok, I checked and it actually works like you said - the first enhancement on the list checks the character level, instead of the wizard level. I'm pretty sure that's not WAI, but well, it works. OTOH, since it doesn't stack...

[voodoogroves]

That might work for cleric, but for a FVS, I'm not sure that bonus stacks with AOV. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to recall reading at some point that it didn't stack.)

Pretty sure it doesn't stack with AoV, but it is a nice split for a cleric (my next cleric is going to be 18/1/1)

[baii]

Can we all just go back to the game and complete something difficult?

[Quetzacoala]

But that is all really preposterous. I think Xeraphim is just trying to help Trudh with wise advice, but you turn on him like a bunch of atheistic abusers.

Xeraphim's advice on its own is well reasoned and is a positive contribution to this debate, as it shows the drawbacks of splashing one level of fighter.

However, what is not helpful at all are his elitist comments about how he will refuse to accept any healers with a minor splash into his groups. This is counterproductive as it does not help the OP in any way but simply comes off as being rude and elitist.

[Theolin]

That might work for cleric, but for a FVS, I'm not sure that bonus stacks with AOV. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to recall reading at some point that it didn't stack.)

dang I knew I forgot something .... arrrrggg

so maybe sorc ... or still the wiz for the feat ... :( sad that the AoV doesn't stack with enhancements

[Ugumagre]

Xeraphim's advice on its own is well reasoned and is a positive contribution to this debate, as it shows the drawbacks of splashing one level of fighter.

However, what is not helpful at all are his elitist comments about how he will refuse to accept any healers with a minor splash into his groups. This is counterproductive as it does not help the OP in any way but simply comes off as being rude and elitist.

That´s against forum rules. I have a huge fan base. More than large. Huge.
Actually, the idea for "Thriller" was mine, I told Michael Jackson about that in the III century, in Rome, in a former life before TR.
Ah, and reported because of disagreement, embarrassment and bereavement.

[Quetzacoala]

That´s against forum rules. I have a huge fan base. More than large. Huge.
Actually, the idea for "Thriller" was mine, I told Michael Jackson about that in the III century, in Rome, in a former life before TR.
Ah, and reported because of disagreement, embarrassment and bereavement.

When I first read this, I thought that you were serious...