News Flash - Epic Ward breaks DDO Expansion

[JOTMON]

Epic Wards on trash mobs instead of intelligent AI programming gives us some insight to how poorly the expansion release will be.

Epic Wards give mobs almost complete immunity to Stat Damage, energy drain, Rogue special attacks, insta-kill spells, high if not complete fortification, immunity to most debuffs. Add super high saves and Epic Spell Resistance.

Will they still be immune to Poison/Disease even though we no longer will be... not that it matters the Epic Ward protects them from the stat damage effects and they regen from any effects that do get through too quickly to make them of any use.

Looks like to me the specialty classes and multiclasses may as well just keep TR'ing regular content as epics will be left to the parties of dumpstat super STR Melee's and CC casters.

LFMS will read STR and CC.. no PM's, Flavour and multi-class builds need not apply.

[Zyerz]

So what you're saying is the game is to hard for ya? Cmon. A challenge is fun. You can no longer use your instakill spells? Then use offensive Spells like firewall, DOTs, etc.
No big deal. Epics will now require more team work, and they will be more fun.
Let me tell ya, in my testing of the new epic content, sure, the drow have a nasty resistance to spells, but that made me swap a few spells around, and surely enough, I soloed a few epic hard quests. Took a bit of an effort, but it's 100% doable. I ran these on my pale master and later on my ranger/fighter. I dont see these epic wards to be a problem whatsoever, in fact, it was high time monsters got an upgrade and became harder to kill.

[Chette]

So what you're saying is the game is to hard for ya? Cmon. A challenge is fun. You can no longer use your instakill spells? Then use offensive Spells like firewall, DOTs, etc.
No big deal. Epics will now require more team work, and they will be more fun.

DoTs are not even remotely effective on trash as they take 3 casts and 16+ seconds to achieve good damage.

Mass spell damage will still be effective, which is why you should all TR your wizards into sorcs, with 50% more spell points and higher damage output.

Epics and questing in general are fun when you can make use of a versatile spell book. Epic questing is fun when you have a goal, or target to work for. When you know that the 6 months you spend TRing to get +9 to your spell pen and a single increase to you DC will actually render you more effective in epic content, instead of being a waste of time. Epics and questing are fun when you have balance and scaling, instead of lazy blanket immunities because they couldn't be bothered to come up with a mechanism to reduce the power of wail and circle of death without destroying an entire group of spells, many of which weren't overpowered, like implode.

[maddmatt70]

I do not agree with your general doom speech but I do agree that the epic ward is not intelligent programming. It is a disappointment that such talented people can not come up with a better solution to most definitely a problem i.e. insta kills in the end game and how instakills affect everyone else.

[Rizzyn]

Epic Wards on trash mobs instead of intelligent AI programming gives us some insight to how poorly the expansion release will be.

Epic Wards give mobs almost complete immunity to Stat Damage, energy drain, Rogue special attacks, insta-kill spells, high if not complete fortification, immunity to most debuffs. Add super high saves and Epic Spell Resistance.

Will they still be immune to Poison/Disease even though we no longer will be... not that it matters the Epic Ward protects them from the stat damage effects and they regen from any effects that do get through too quickly to make them of any use.

Looks like to me the specialty classes and multiclasses may as well just keep TR'ing regular content as epics will be left to the parties of dumpstat super STR Melee's and CC casters.

LFMS will read STR and CC.. no PM's, Flavour and multi-class builds need not apply.

This has not been my experience. Stat Damage they do take. Energy Drain works, or at least Circle of Death does. We did this with FvS and kited moves through Circle until Circle was done and Imploded targets successfully. They are not immune to Sneak Attacks, but if the area is scaled high enough, instant-death attacks, like assassinate will not work until the Mob is at 50%o or less HP, however, many mobs have very high hitpoints, so 50% is going to vary. 50% might be a 1000HP, which typically would leave them as invulnerable to certain attacks as they currently are on live when the have HP in excess of 1K. It IS Epic Level content, so I am sure Spell DCs will have to average higher due to higher saves, but this is not atypical.

They do not regen from these effects. There is currently an issue with short leashes that I believe is being addressed.

[Tid12]

It's a Death block ward not death ward. They can be energy drained and get stat damage still.

[Hendrik]

Epic Wards on trash mobs instead of intelligent AI programming gives us some insight to how poorly the expansion release will be.

Epic Wards give mobs almost complete immunity to Stat Damage, energy drain, Rogue special attacks, insta-kill spells, high if not complete fortification, immunity to most debuffs. Add super high saves and Epic Spell Resistance.

Will they still be immune to Poison/Disease even though we no longer will be... not that it matters the Epic Ward protects them from the stat damage effects and they regen from any effects that do get through too quickly to make them of any use.

Looks like to me the specialty classes and multiclasses may as well just keep TR'ing regular content as epics will be left to the parties of dumpstat super STR Melee's and CC casters.

LFMS will read STR and CC.. no PM's, Flavour and multi-class builds need not apply.

So, your saying Epic Hard and Epic Elite we will need to find another way to complete these settings vs what we currently see on our Epic setting now.

[JOTMON]

This has not been my experience. Stat Damage they do take. Energy Drain works, or at least Circle of Death does. We did this with FvS and kited moves through Circle until Circle was done and Imploded targets successfully. They are not immune to Sneak Attacks, but if the area is scaled high enough, instant-death attacks, like assassinate will not work until the Mob is at 50%o or less HP, however, many mobs have very high hitpoints, so 50% is going to vary. 50% might be a 1000HP, which typically would leave them as invulnerable to certain attacks as they currently are on live when the have HP in excess of 1K. It IS Epic Level content, so I am sure Spell DCs will have to average higher due to higher saves, but this is not atypical.

They do not regen from these effects. There is currently an issue with short leashes that I believe is being addressed.

Ugh, the shortleashing is a pain, except for everyone who is just running past everything and letting them leash back as their workaround to wasting resources actually killing stuff.

Epic ward grants immunity to paralyzing, poison disease, haven't checked poison/disease with changes to players in the updated beta to see if this has carried over to mobs.

90% stat damage resistance and recover quickly( try statdamaging them, they show as taking stat damage but dont incapacitate or show any impact from stat damagers before being killed by just pure damage..)
Effects such as Slicing Blow or Crippling Strike are virtually ineffective, as are Wounding, Puncturing, Weakening, Enfeebling
Charms have roughly 1/8th to 1/16th their normal duration.
recover 1 negative level every 10 seconds (versus 2 minutes on non-epic).

[HatsuharuZ]

What I don't understand is why the blanket epic immunities are even there. Why can't the devs just increase the mobs saves? In that case, the insta-kill spells could still work, but they wouldn't auto-kill the mobs every single time.

[Vordax]

So, your saying Epic Hard and Epic Elite we will need to find another way to complete these settings vs what we currently see on our Epic setting now.

Yup, this is what will happen, PM's will TR to sorcs now.

[danotmano1998]

What I don't understand is why the blanket epic immunities are even there. Why can't the devs just increase the mobs saves? In that case, the insta-kill spells could still work, but they wouldn't auto-kill the mobs every single time.

Probably a very common question in everyone's mind. Maybe we will hear some reason why they decided to go with their current version, maybe not. If I had to guess, I would say not.

This solution is a far better compromise than just instantly blanketing everything in epic as death immune completely, but I really don't understand why they didn't just do the D&D thing? You know, like up saves and sr?

[edgarallanpoe]

I will reserve judgement until I actually play the content but I will say this....

If I have an *Epic* Assassin who cannot assassinate, I will be less than happy.

[QuantumFX]

I do not agree with your general doom speech but I do agree that the epic ward is not intelligent programming. It is a disappointment that such talented people can not come up with a better solution to most definitely a problem i.e. insta kills in the end game and how instakills affect everyone else.

Agreed. It’s not like the systems devs couldn’t just give the content devs the ability to add spell/item buffs to mobs when they spawn. At the very least it would make Greater/Dispel Magic and Disjunction into a useful spells.

[Chai]

So what you're saying is the game is to hard for ya? Cmon. A challenge is fun. You can no longer use your instakill spells? Then use offensive Spells like firewall, DOTs, etc.
No big deal. Epics will now require more team work, and they will be more fun.
Let me tell ya, in my testing of the new epic content, sure, the drow have a nasty resistance to spells, but that made me swap a few spells around, and surely enough, I soloed a few epic hard quests. Took a bit of an effort, but it's 100% doable. I ran these on my pale master and later on my ranger/fighter. I dont see these epic wards to be a problem whatsoever, in fact, it was high time monsters got an upgrade and became harder to kill.

Challenge is fun.

Whats not fun is when players get duped into believing their abilities they built their toon around are awesome through 20 levels of gaming, only to find out that every single mob in the 21-25 game is arbitrarily immune to those abilities.

Upgrading monsters to become harder to kill =/= making them immune to all methods to kill them but one. This creates a situation where the mobs are easy to kill, but theres only 4 builds in the game that have an easy time of it. We already went through this once when epics came out in 2009. If you couldnt stun or CC, you might as well TR into something that can. Why even have pale master and archmage necromancy PRE in the game if all mobs will just be immune to every ability those PRE cultivate.

Arbitrary immunities are not an upgrade. They are a bandaid slapped onto the situation to cover up the real disparity here - mob AI. When devs put blanket immunities into the game, they control what builds will be acceptable and which will not, thus limiting the play experience even further.

[danotmano1998]

Hopefully, they will hold true to their word and be releasing those hearts as promised.

I can see a whole lot of PM's suddenly turning into something else with them.

[Missing_Minds]

I do not agree with your general doom speech but I do agree that the epic ward is not intelligent programming. It is a disappointment that such talented people can not come up with a better solution to most definitely a problem i.e. insta kills in the end game and how instakills affect everyone else.

I agree, however, even talent is limited by something even more powerful.

Schedule and the almighty $$$. *sigh*

[protokon]

Challenge is fun.

Whats not fun is when players get duped into believing their abilities they built their toon around are awesome through 20 levels of gaming, only to find out that every single mob in the 21-25 game is arbitrarily immune to those abilities.

Upgrading monsters to become harder to kill =/= making them immune to all methods to kill them but one. This creates a situation where the mobs are easy to kill, but theres only 4 builds in the game that have an easy time of it. We already went through this once when epics came out in 2009. If you couldnt stun or CC, you might as well TR into something that can. Why even have pale master and archmage necromancy PRE in the game if all mobs will just be immune to every ability those PRE cultivate.

Arbitrary immunities are not an upgrade. They are a bandaid slapped onto the situation to cover up the real disparity here - mob AI. When devs put blanket immunities into the game, they control what builds will be acceptable and which will not, thus limiting the play experience even further.

This is spot on

[bringjoy]

I will reserve judgement until I actually play the content but I will say this....

If I have an *Epic* Assassin who cannot assassinate, I will be less than happy.

/nods

I actually don't mind not being able to use my insta-kill spells in Epic content -- because my wizs and sorcs have a much bigger arsenal than my rogue in Epic content where few things are subject to full SA damage. If I don't even have a *chance* to assassinate...that will be a major dev fail:mad:

[McFlay]

Epic ward doesn't break the expansion, it makes it. I was getting quite bored of my melee toons being quite useless in high level content. I'd run up and hit a mob 30 times and have it almost dead...and all the sudden a pale master would run by and wail, kill that mob, and 3 other ones next to it...yeah, that was a lot of fun.

I can understand why people are throwing a hissy fit, nobody wants to lose their hissy fit, but I'd really have to disagree with you on two points you are trying to make.

1. Intelligent ai, its never going to happen. If you want to fight something smart then beg turbine to improve pvp. Otherwise the ai on this game is awful, always has been, and always will be. They might add a few tricks to mob arsenals here and there, but the ai is never going to be able to adapt to you or challenge you like a human opponent.

2. Boosting saves vs >50% deathblock. I see where your coming from, but its kind of a pointless argument. If saves were high enough so maybe with max possible dc, you had 50% chance to insta kill, and with just a decent dc you had 30-35%, the end result is your going to have to cast more then one spell to insta kill mobs. If they have >50% hp deathblock, your going to have to cast some spells to loosen them up a bit then insta kill them. Either way your going to have to cast multiple spells, is it really that terrible that you use something other then ik?

It would have been a little more fair if they gave ik spells and assassins untyped bonus damage for creatures with >xxx hp like vorpal gets but maybe gets +50 hp per dc instead of vorpals flat 1000 hp limit, but for the time being I'm glad "end game" content isn't going to amount to running around insta killing everything. I was so happy to see this change I'm actually going to buy the expansion now, good job turbine!

[Cadveen]

Don't you get it!?! That is exactly what the Pale masters will be doing now. They will wait until you get the monster below 50% and almost have it dead then they will run up and wail it. Now, it is because that is what must be done!?!?!?!?!? GRAWR!!!! WHY DO THE DEVS LISTEN TO PEOPLE ON THESE FORUMS ANYWAYS. I only have posted several times cause most of the people on here make comments like the one above. They don't think through what they are actually saying. Well maybe he is just being sarcastic. Yeah thats it. Nice one dave. Ya know with the sarcasm about getting the monsters below 50% and then a caster coming and killing it.

[Shade]

Epic ward has been removed from the normal game.

It's now called "Epic Elite Ward"

Which most likely means its only meant to exist on epic elite and possibly epic hard.

If your seeing it on epic normal, im pretty sure its not intended.

[MrWizard]

I don't like the blanket immunities on mobs..
or even the super high acs, to hits, and saves...

I would rather they just had some better abilities and perhaps more of them.

Nothing is fun about building your character within the rules and finding out that your combat weapon skills, crowd control or damage spells, and most of the 'flavor' of your character need to be fully maxxed with tons of crafted gear to be sort of effective..
any thing else and you are not helping out much other than some kind of dps...killing the flavor.

I understand they gotta do it....just wish there was a different thing going on.
I would say making the epics 12 man quests instead would make it fun.

[Habreno]

/thread fail



In all seriousness, Epic Ward (which isn't even coming back, instead they're bringing in Epic Elite Ward, which *is* different) does not break the game. It did not break the game back in 2009. The new incarnation will not break the game now. Seeing as it won't be on anything but Epic Elite (which *is* designed for the best of the best players, similar to Epic when it was originally introduced) and maybe a rare mob or two in Epic Hard, your Pale Master is still effective. You just need to come up with your secondary focus. Expand your character.

[Ew_vastano]

DoTs are not even remotely effective on trash as they take 3 casts and 16+ seconds to achieve good damage.

Mass spell damage will still be effective, which is why you should all TR your wizards into sorcs, with 50% more spell points and higher damage output.

Epics and questing in general are fun when you can make use of a versatile spell book. Epic questing is fun when you have a goal, or target to work for. When you know that the 6 months you spend TRing to get +9 to your spell pen and a single increase to you DC will actually render you more effective in epic content, instead of being a waste of time. Epics and questing are fun when you have balance and scaling, instead of lazy blanket immunities because they couldn't be bothered to come up with a mechanism to reduce the power of wail and circle of death without destroying an entire group of spells, many of which weren't overpowered, like implode.

well anything that stops you casters solo scroll farming epic content and needing a party i say is a change for the good

[foxom1]

elite epic ward = fail. all it's gonna do is get things back the way they used to be with 4 maxed out dps a healer and a cc. wow that's boring! it won't make it harder, much like when they upped the hp of raid mobs, it'll just make it longer and more boring.

[GermanicusMaximus]

Epic ward doesn't break the expansion, it makes it. I was getting quite bored of my melee toons being quite useless in high level content. I'd run up and hit a mob 30 times and have it almost dead...and all the sudden a pale master would run by and wail, kill that mob, and 3 other ones next to it...yeah, that was a lot of fun.


Well, your melee toons were useless because a non-tank melee toon is nothing but a press and hold mouse button starter toon. It should be useless in epic content.

Of course, it will still feel useless when you spend all your time waiting for an arcane and divine caster to join your group to serve as your buffbot and healbot. Happy questing!

[Scraap]

well anything that stops you casters solo scroll farming epic content and needing a party i say is a change for the good

This really doesn't solve that though.

1) Before they removed the epic wards the first time, I had no trouble scroll farming on my 28 pointer with firewall kiting.

2) There are no scrolls in the new stuff, and the new gear is intended to outstrip the old gear, so there isn't even the incentive to kill everything. Just stop it long enough so it doesn't follow you and move on. You think zerging's bad in the 1-20 game? Wait till folks have familiarized themselves with the new content.

3) In the old stuff, epic is still epic, so scroll-farming on normal or even casual is perfectly possible.

Again I say: I dare ya to do better devs.

[GermanicusMaximus]

Seeing as it won't be on anything but Epic Elite (which *is* designed for the best of the best players, similar to Epic when it was originally introduced)

4 melees played by pressing and holding down a mouse button is far from "the best of the best players". What it does do is convert DDO at its upper most levels into a limited/no skill affair most appropriate for a children's game.

[Drwaz99]

Um, I don't think he was necessarily commenting on the specifics of "Epic Ward" rather the notion that it represents the shortcuts that have been taken instead of doing things the better (and more expensive and time consuming) way.

It's hard to argue with many of the changes that have been made, that aren't in the Release notes (Kensai/SD for one as it represents a change that was intended, with serious unintended effects). How many others could be sitting in the internal builds we don't know of.

No tinfoil, but you have to wonder.

[Cyr]

Um, I don't think he was necessarily commenting on the specifics of "Epic Ward" rather the notion that it represents the shortcuts that have been taken instead of doing things the better (and more expensive and time consuming) way.

It's hard to argue with many of the changes that have been made, that aren't in the Release notes (Kensai/SD for one as it represents a change that was intended, with serious unintended effects). How many others could be sitting in the internal builds we don't know of.

No tinfoil, but you have to wonder.

I would like to add that those better ways while more expensive short term are often much cheaper in the long term due to less bugs, unitended side effects (that spawn their own changes), and reworks to what are hastily rolled out junk design.

[Kiel]

DoTs are not even remotely effective on trash as they take 3 casts and 16+ seconds to achieve good damage.

Mass spell damage will still be effective, which is why you should all TR your wizards into sorcs, with 50% more spell points and higher damage output.

Epics and questing in general are fun when you can make use of a versatile spell book. Epic questing is fun when you have a goal, or target to work for. When you know that the 6 months you spend TRing to get +9 to your spell pen and a single increase to you DC will actually render you more effective in epic content, instead of being a waste of time. Epics and questing are fun when you have balance and scaling, instead of lazy blanket immunities because they couldn't be bothered to come up with a mechanism to reduce the power of wail and circle of death without destroying an entire group of spells, many of which weren't overpowered, like implode.

K im still giggling you said TR into a sorcerer then in the very next sentence..Epics and questing in general are fun when you can make use of a versatile spell book.Wait what? lol

[Chai]

There are no scrolls in the new stuff, and the new gear is intended to outstrip the old gear, so there isn't even the incentive to kill everything. Just stop it long enough so it doesn't follow you and move on. You think zerging's bad in the 1-20 game? Wait till folks have familiarized themselves with the new content.

This mirrors what Ive been thinking all along. What til we are familiar with this stuff and understand its every weakness, understand where invis works, etc. No incentive to kill mobs = farming content where time is practically currency. Do you know the method for farming X quest in 4 minutes? Yes? /invite. Lets go.

Even when there ARE scrolls, most people have their token caster on their account they use to farm scrolls with, and run completions using fast zerging methods when applicable.

[Chai]

K im still giggling you said TR into a sorcerer then in the very next sentence..Epics and questing in general are fun when you can make use of a versatile spell book.Wait what? lol

The point there is if they are nerfing all instant kills into the ground, you might as well TR into a sorc, because they arent likely to nerf direct damage into the ground. Since the poster cant have their versatile spell book, which is part of the wizards advantage, they might as well TR into a sorc. Hold + maxed out damage spells is as effective as web + instakill, and with the nerf to insta kill it will clearly be more effective.

[Chai]

4 melees played by pressing and holding down a mouse button is far from "the best of the best players". What it does do is convert DDO at its upper most levels into a limited/no skill affair most appropriate for a children's game.

Yeap, exactly.

With one option for killing mobs - direct damage.

They dupe players into believing that necromancy, stat damage, and charms are good options to cultivate, evidenced by their effectiveness in the heroic game, then pull the rug out from under us when we get to epics by limiting the options down to this huge bottleneck. This in part contributes to the cookie cutter mentality for builds. People dont build for "crowd control" they build for mass hold. One spell. Its even worse than it was in the past because heavy picks had a niche for being the best "helpless DPS weapon" and now khopesh dominates that as well.

I specifically remember a dev quote when the helpless nerf came along where he stated that epics should not be this autocrit fest they have turned into. When they rule out every single other viable option, what did they expect to happen?

[Erekose]

Well, your melee toons were useless because a non-tank melee toon is nothing but a press and hold mouse button starter toon. It should be useless in epic content.

Of course, it will still feel useless when you spend all your time waiting for an arcane and divine caster to join your group to serve as your buffbot and healbot. Happy questing!

/signed

Good luck waiting around all night to get a group then fail.

If that's players idea of fun then you will be back on the forums complaining that epic is too hard.

[Erekose]

Yeap, exactly.

With one option for killing mobs - direct damage.

They dupe players into believing that necromancy, stat damage, and charms are good options to cultivate, evidenced by their effectiveness in the heroic game, then pull the rug out from under us when we get to epics by limiting the options down to this huge bottleneck. This in part contributes to the cookie cutter mentality for builds. People dont build for "crowd control" they build for mass hold. One spell. Its even worse than it was in the past because heavy picks had a niche for being the best "helpless DPS weapon" and now khopesh dominates that as well.

I specifically remember a dev quote when the helpless nerf came along where he stated that epics should not be this autocrit fest they have turned into. When they rule out every single other viable option, what did they expect to happen?

When they allowed instakills in epic they nerfed CC enchantment such as, SR check for mass Hold and reduced the time on Symbol of persuasion. Are these changes going to be rolled back now that Epic DW is to be used in Epic Elite?

C'mon, all I see is take, take, take, take. Maybe Abjuration will get a mighty boost?

[PopeJual]

well anything that stops you casters solo scroll farming epic content and needing a party i say is a change for the good

Only a tiny fraction of a percent of any players ever soloed a full epic quest. Since epic scrolls/seals/shards don't exist in the Forgotten Realms, there's really no point in limiting scroll farming.

[Sarnind]

Epic ward? Finally a good news, i hope is true. I m very tired play in god mode , i m sorry for newbs or crappy but i want more challenge

[B0ltdrag0n]

Outdated posts are outdated.

[Sarnind]

K, god mode on. I hope in neverwinter night online.

[Shade]

Outdated posts are outdated.

This. Needs to stop being bumped. Was incorrect and outdated the day it was posted.

Epic ward hasn't really done anything that really has much impact since like 2010 when it was heavily nerfed.

[Chai]

What is actually incorrect is the overexageration of caster power by the forumites. The only casters who are Op are the ones who no longer need the gear in the quests they are easily destroying. There are two other threads where people are using eVON 1, a three year old epic, as a measuring stick for how death spells are OP, and bringing casters in there to prove it that graduated VON series gear in 2010.

The real issue here is most of the loot being BTA and scrolls being trade-able. If we had to go get the gear with the character we wanted it on, you wouldnt see overgeared casters in eVON 1 and snitch steamrolling the quest with such ease that causes people who play melee mains storm to the boards and overexagerate the issue even more. The minute this gets brought up no one wants to talk about it however. ZOMG leave our BTA loot alone!!! This is the first MMO ive played where you can gear a toon well enough to play the highest content in the game without ever having that same toon set foot in any of the content said gear came out of. This is what literally sets the tone for players to find out what the most powerful epic ingredient farming build is, make a token version for their account, and plow the content until they get the loot they want.

Needs to stop being bumped? No, this issue needs to be resolved. Keeping it in the light is step one.

[JOTMON]

This. Needs to stop being bumped. Was incorrect and outdated the day it was posted.

Epic ward hasn't really done anything that really has much impact since like 2010 when it was heavily nerfed.

I am surprised this thread is still going.


If you have nothing to contribute to the thread then stop troll posting.

These worthless comments in your effort to discredit the post add nothing.



There is nothing outdated or incorrect about Epic Wards being sloppy quick patch programming to avoid programming mobs properly.

Haunting was the replacement slaphappy patch.

[akiraproject24]

/thread fail



In all seriousness, Epic Ward (which isn't even coming back, instead they're bringing in Epic Elite Ward, which *is* different) does not break the game. It did not break the game back in 2009. The new incarnation will not break the game now. Seeing as it won't be on anything but Epic Elite (which *is* designed for the best of the best players, similar to Epic when it was originally introduced) and maybe a rare mob or two in Epic Hard, your Pale Master is still effective. You just need to come up with your secondary focus. Expand your character.

A good PM is gonna have enchantment and conjuration DCs close to their Necro DCs and make perfectly awesome CCers if you gear them and put the time into making them so...I run 44 ench 43 conj on my PM...so while Im just as irritated by blanket immunities...I know full well my PM will CC just as well as any other wizzy in another PrE. And yes I prefer to run a sorc against epic warded mobs myself like in the challenges currently in House C.

[Erekose]

Outdated posts are outdated.

This thread may be out dated for now. However, the issue it discusses is not and the contributions by community members about efforts, whether real, planned for now or in the future, will return.

I see this discussion will continue now and into the future. The developers have already telegraphed a very serious punch and then rolled it back. The issues discussed in this and many other posts are and will remain valid and will be a useful source of information to re-visit in the future.