Prepare to have your mind blown: open beta notes are up

[teh_meh]

link-ity:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=376774

greens steel deconstruction folks and MUCH, much more.

[dredre9987]

Combat expertise with no to-hit penalty? oh my

[Kakashi67]

DooOOoommm?

[Jsbeer]

Ingredients and Collectibles are now weightless.


YAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!

Finally my Str 8 casters will not be laid low, not by Dragons, not by Demons but by collectables EVAR again.......

[PNellesen]

Oh, just WAIT until people start seeing the "improvements" they've made to various resistances and immunities. And that's just for starters lol.

If you were planning on a Greensteel triple-neg item in the near future, you may want to have a look at the release notes first...

[Zeruell]

Combat expertise with no to-hit penalty? oh my

Arguably, the penalty of having Combat Expertise active was its mutal exclusivity with Power Attack.

[Cold_Stele]

nvm

[Zirun]

I wonder how much dOOOOOoooo000ooooOOO00m-calling there's been, what with AC being reworked into a system that isn't entirely D20-based. "DDO'S BECOMING LIKE EVERY OTHER MMO DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM" stuff.

Looks really interesting, though. I'm curious to see the loot changes (especially the new stuff in 3BC and the new Dragonscale armor).

And the spell power changes; looks to me like casters are going to be even more OP at low levels with passive and active boosts to magic damage now stacking, but I may just be missing something.

And the AC changes.

And the new loot prefix and suffix mechanics. Can't wait to see what kind of stuff can be churned out now.

And the new Epic difficulties.

So much good stuff. Can't wait!

[dredre9987]

Arguably, the penalty of having Combat Expertise active was its mutal exclusivity with Power Attack.

Truth, but I always found the to-hit penalty bothersome at very low lvl hence why most builds that use it take it late.

[fco-karatekid]

I've read through the notes, and while the nerfs to immunities are a point of curiosity for me now (along with some of the new math); I am REALLY pleased to see so many OLD PROBLEMS fixed!

I do have a question on logic, though - wasn't the problem we discussed with AC being they lost relevance at HIGHER levels (vs. the release notes saying LOWER)? Mighta been a typo (there were a few of those, but this one justcaused me to go "whaaaa?") Ohhh, unless we're going back to THAC0, lol... which I'd actually be fine with, but I'm old... ish

Gonna keep reading the posts to see the DOOM threads and whether I can live with the issues; but I am very excited to see what appears to be actual FIXES in here (assuming they "took")! My issues over the past 6 months was an appearance of all hat and no cattle - "Let's Talk" threads that were just that... It looks like I mighta been wrong (gasp)?

Assuming the affirmative, Turbine's about 65% more likely today to get 80 bucks from me than they were this morning... The other 35% to be made up over the coming few days of reading.

[Zeruell]

Can you have more than one 'stance' active simultaneously now?

Er...no, you can't*, nor will you after the update drops.

That was the basic premise of my post, really.

*: Class-specific stances are not included in this statement.

[fco-karatekid]

... (especially the new stuff in 3BC...

I don't think there was ANY other area in the game that needed this quite so badly- it was such a waste of otherwise good code. If I buy the ExPack, I'll be running this first thing with my capped characters... on principal... because they didn't run previously.

[Postumus]

The spell Displacement is now self-only.

Now that is interesting.

[fco-karatekid]

Now that is interesting.

Yup, my first thought was "there goes about 15% of my Bard's perceived worth to the average party..." Ahh well, Wizzies can take that role now, lol!

EDIT: DOH! never mind, they can't do it either, gahh.

[Jsbeer]

Now that is interesting.

To be honest Casters needed a nerf, so this is .....

*Looks again*

Oh oh - Melee are even worse off........

*Cries*

[Zeruell]

The spell Displacement is now self-only.
Now that is interesting.

Oh, can you imagine?

"Displace meh!"
"Can't, it's not targettable anymore."
"Bull, just throw the **** buff!"

[Cold_Stele]

Er...no, you can't*, nor will you after the update drops.

That was the basic premise of my post, really.

*: Class-specific stances are not included in this statement.

That's what I thought, which is why I couldn't understand you using the past tense -


Arguably, the penalty of having Combat Expertise active was its mutal exclusivity with Power Attack.

[fco-karatekid]

To be honest Casters needed a nerf, so this is .....

*Looks again*

Oh oh - Melee are even worse off........

*Cries*

Right! I ws just working through "... AC allegedly being more effective, but noone but casters and UMD'ers can get Displaced... net zero?"

[Zeruell]

Right! I ws just working through "... AC allegedly being more effective, but noone but casters and UMD'ers can get Displaced... net zero?"

At least there's always Green Steel.

[Zirun]

Oh, can you imagine?

"Displace meh!"
"Can't, it's not targettable anymore."
"Bull, just throw the **** buff!"

Well, most melees have 6 or 8 Intelligence, so it's more like...

"GIB MAH DISPLURCE"
"Can't, it's self-only now."
"RARGRARGHAGRHAGRHAGRHARGH I EAT YOU AXE SMASH!!!!!"
"._."

[LongshotBro]

i'm nervous and excited. that's a whole lotta changes but change is a good thing!

[Zeruell]

change is a good thing!

I bow before your mastery of fine print. I can't even make out the barest scribble.

But yes, there many good things on the list.

[Kyrgan]

Looking at the list of known issues I have only one question-

When is MotU supposed to be released?

[Postumus]

i'm nervous and excited. that's a whole lotta changes but change is a good thing!

I think most of the changes are for the better.

[WyntherKnight]

This:

Other changes
-The DDO game name and basic logo has been updated to be more friendly to multiple D&D universes. We're now "Dungeons & Dragons Online" with a new logo to match!


Does this hint that the devs are planning to expand to the other D&D worlds or is it just a fancy way of saying "Look guys! New logo!"

[Malshier]

Nice proofreading on the release notes.

[arminius]

Well, if the forums explode over the course of the next week, then we'll know the NDA worked.

If they don't, we'll know it didn't.

[dredre9987]

This:

Other changes
-The DDO game name and basic logo has been updated to be more friendly to multiple D&D universes. We're now "Dungeons & Dragons Online" with a new logo to match!


Does this hint that the devs are planning to expand to the other D&D worlds or is it just a fancy way of saying "Look guys! New logo!"

Seems to say they got a broad license....something WotC has NEVER given out.

[redspecter23]

Displacement is now self only? I'm really missing something here. So melee get an AC nerf and the single best form of damage mitigation is being taken away. Turbine, what am I missing here? This is where you announce some super special form of melee defense that you've been holding back, right? Please? Pretty please? Why exactly are casters bringing melee to their groups except out of pity now?

[MaximusParthas]

Epic monsters on hard and elite are now resistant against death if their CR is above 20. This ward is called “hard to kill” and acts as a death ward until the targets hps drops below 50% which removes the ward. The ward doesn’t restore after the monster heals.

Is this an anti assassinate ward? if so that's gonna suck for assassins more than anything else ever has.

[carll78]

link-ity:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=376774

greens steel deconstruction folks and MUCH, much more.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/288/648/776.gif

Holy [censored] !!!

[fco-karatekid]

Is this an anti assassinate ward? if so that's gonna suck for assassins more than anything else ever has.

If they mean the current Deathward, then that is allegedly for spells and effects only, not the ability to find a gizzard and place a sharp pointy in it effectively.

This shouldn't be horrid as long as the plan is to concurrently change the ugly bags of mostly hitpoints we see on bosses now. Makes em tough at the outset; but as long as you can open combat powerfully, should be at LEAST less time-sucking.

[MaximusParthas]

If they mean the current Deathward, then that is allegedly for spells and effects only, not the ability to find a gizzard and place a sharp pointy in it effectively.

This shouldn't be horrid as long as the plan is to concurrently change the ugly bags of mostly hitpoints we see on bosses now. Makes em tough at the outset; but as long as you can open combat powerfully, should be at LEAST less time-sucking.

there's an "epic death ward" on orange named bosses now. that prevents assassination. If it's the same ward we're screwed royally.

[Grace_ana]

Deathward protects against assassinate too, I believe. I recall in epic challenges trying to assassinate and seeing the deathward symbol pop up for the monster. As far as I know, it also applies to assassins, and yes, it is truly awful for assassins especially but also arcanes and divines.

[teh_meh]

"GIB MAH DISPLURCE"

epic. thanks for the hearty chuckle dude.

[voodoogroves]

Deathward protects against assassinate too, I believe. I recall in epic challenges trying to assassinate and seeing the deathward symbol pop up for the monster. As far as I know, it also applies to assassins, and yes, it is truly awful for assassins especially but also arcanes and divines.

Yay. Well, been looking for a time to TR the rogue. She was fun; maybe everyone will be a Sorc soon.

[Kakashi67]

Yay. Well, been looking for a time to TR the rogue. She was fun; maybe everyone will be a Sorc soon.

You must not have been in the beta..

[Khellendros13]

So the circle of life continues...back to Enchant focus for those arcanes wanting to excel in Epic Hard/Elite then.

My condolences to all the assassins too. At least you will get awesome damage mitigation with Improved Uncanny Dodge!

[fco-karatekid]

Deathward protects against assassinate too, I believe. I recall in epic challenges trying to assassinate and seeing the deathward symbol pop up for the monster. As far as I know, it also applies to assassins, and yes, it is truly awful for assassins especially but also arcanes and divines.

I haven't done epic challenges... i woulda thought that would have been epic deathward (vs. regular death ward).

[EbbOnFire]

Graphics
On the highest graphics settings, when facing the camera towards the sun, its rays will now beam down at you or peer through the trees with warm illuminating goodness.

On higher graphics settings wheat, reeds, grasses, and other ground frills will now react when an avatar passes through them.

New varieties of trees and grasses have arrived to DDO. These plants are native to the Forgotten Realms. The Druidic Gatekeepers ask that adventurers returning from the Realms not bring back plant cuttings so as not to disrupt the fragile Xen'drik jungle ecosystem with potentially invasive species of wild plants.

Arrow trails have returned to following arrows. Rumor has it they were following the Grateful Dead for a while.


My favorite part of the release notes. I can only imagine that just prior to writing this someone was told "I don't freakin' care that it's four in the morning! Get those goddamn release notes done before you go home! Also, there are more wine coolers in the bottom of the fridge."

[DrunkenBuddha]

Hard to understand if I am cautiously optimistic or eagerly pessimistic at this point. AC has been reworked so that it is more viable for everyone, unless you were one of the few that invested into making AC viable. Epic blanket wards back in epics have made PMs and rogues much less useful (being diplomatic). Looks like time to mass hold everything but no auto crit anymore so hope you like beating on frozen mobs for extended periods of time. Bleh.

All of this I can deal with. Adapt, improvise, overcome and all that nonsense. What I don't get the point of is why wasnt a lot of this stuff in the closed beta? I don't see a purpose behind the subterfuge. I guess it comes down to a frustration with stealth nerfs. I would rather just know so that I have some measure of control over when there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth than to be blindsided.

[mournbladereigns]

D0o0o0o0o0ooOOOo0o0OOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!111111 1111ELEVENTY!!!!!!

hopefully AC will turn out to be useful, major changeage.

[Memek]

So, dungeon scaling on Epic. Elite not supposed to scale, but we've heard that before...
Doom?

I guess it was unavoidable with FR quests being levelling content but called "Epic".

Wonder when they put scaling into the raids.

[Theender]

I pressed Ctrl+F and tried to find the word Handwraps. I was disappoint.

But then I saw the rest of the stuff and went "Shuddup and take mah money!"

[svinja]

It seems like TWF builds will finally no longer beat S&B builds in AC. I like that. I don't like that it seems my wizard is being downgraded back to mass hold bot (if even that, as I'm anticipating epics filled with high-SR drow), although I guess I can always TR into a sorc, unless they also got screwed and I missed it. :D

What disappoints me the most is that it seems we're not getting a wardrobe and are still stuck with actionbars full of items, swapping them one by one...

The epic destinites sound cool though. >D

[Gkar]

Yay. Well, been looking for a time to TR the rogue. She was fun; maybe everyone will be a Sorc soon.

So you missed the massive changes/nerfs to casters then eh?

[Astraghal]

DDOoom™

[DrunkenBuddha]

I pressed Ctrl+F and tried to find the word Handwraps. I was disappoint.

But then I saw the rest of the stuff and went "Shuddup and take mah money!"

Last I saw on the named item list there were some +6 hw

[oweieie]

So you missed the massive changes/nerfs to casters then eh?

So you missed that they're even better now than melee are?

[Kakashi67]

So you missed that they're even better now than melee are?

Ask the palemasters and divines that question.

[Forzah]

Ask the palemasters and divines that question.

They're still better than melees...

[DeafeningWhisper]

Yay, PMs don't breath anymore! They can catch the flu thou... And we still can't fix stat damage while in form, poison/disease is gonna be fun.

[oweieie]

Ask the palemasters and divines that question.

You mean the people not getting raped by the ******** AC changes since they can just run away, who can displace themselves and can implode and blade barrier? I would but they're too busy sipping their drinks in the hot tub with the playboy bunnies.

[Ew_vastano]

Displacement is now self only? I'm really missing something here. So melee get an AC nerf and the single best form of damage mitigation is being taken away. Turbine, what am I missing here? This is where you announce some super special form of melee defense that you've been holding back, right? Please? Pretty please? Why exactly are casters bringing melee to their groups except out of pity now?

look closely at the ac changes most chars wont need displace any more as your dr will take away a lot of dmg

maybe even more then displaces miss chance ever did

also if you need displace that bad craft a smokeII greensteel item 2x displace per day

[Theender]

Last I saw on the named item list there were some +6 hw

I'm gonna sound lazy but, is there a link to this list?

And I'll clarify, when I meant I searched for handwraps I was hoping a bit of repairing of the current bugs were fixed, not about items introduced into the next update. But I'm content with the idea that tod rings can have their incredible potentials removed, that does benefit my monk interests indirectly.

[donblas]

look closely at the ac changes most chars wont need displace any more as your dr will take away a lot of dmg maybe even more then displaces miss chance ever did

Be careful that you said what you meant to when you said "most chars". Did you really mean that your statement is true of most characters in the game?

[samthedagger]

I was expecting the rules to get a revamp but I was not expecting something this drastic. This is going to be interesting to say the least. I predict it will take at least a year until all of these changes are balanced out to an acceptable degree.

[MrkGrismer]

As an FYI:


"Hard to Kill" isn't intended to prevent energy drain or negative energy damage effects, and should be functioning as death block and not death ward.

[rdasca]

The spell Displacement is now self-only.

Guess I missed that in the last round of beta.

The question is why?

[Kawai]

...so far most thankful for:
Greensteel Deconstruction
Upgraded Dragonscale Armors and Dragonscale droprates at higher difficulties.

Thank You boyz!
-Tarelyn, Achillesia, Thelanis

[grimjaw05]

Things like this realy make wonder what the new Enhancement system is going to look like.

[DeafeningWhisper]

Be careful that you said what you meant to when you said "most chars". Did you really mean that your statement is true of most characters in the game?

Let's put it this way, my 10 AC wiz got "miss" now and again in the new quests.

[Kakashi67]

You mean the people not getting raped by the ******** AC changes since they can just run away, who can displace themselves and can implode and blade barrier? I would but they're too busy sipping their drinks in the hot tub with the playboy bunnies.

Aww, someone doesn't like change.

[oweieie]

look closely at the ac changes most chars wont need displace any more as your dr will take away a lot of dmg

Except it doesn't.

A couple classes/builds got a huge AC boost. If your character didn't get a boost, then don't expect AC to do much for your character, things will be tuned around 150+ AC now and your 40 or 60 will be meaningless.

A couple classes got a huge dodge boost clicky. If your character didn't, or the clicky is on timer, expect to be a punching bag.

If your character can neither dodge as well as a frothing at the mouth red misted barbarian, nor turn any half plate you wear into super magical indestructo half plate by the grace of a couple extra hours of training before you started your life long adventuring career like a fighter, then basically you're ****ed. Monks, I'm looking at you.

Or you can be a caster, run through an ice storm a couple times and ignore the fact that AC got changed at all since nothing hits you anyway.

[DeafeningWhisper]

The spell Displacement is now self-only.

Guess I missed that in the last round of beta.

The question is why?

My guess? Uncanny Dodge.

And it wasn't in the Beta, just like Hard to Kill.

[DeafeningWhisper]

Except it doesn't.

A couple classes/builds got a huge AC boost. If your character didn't get a boost, then don't expect AC to do much for your character, things will be tuned around 150+ AC now and your 40 or 60 will be meaningless.

A couple classes got a huge dodge boost clicky. If your character didn't, or the clicky is on timer, expect to be a punching bag.

If your character can neither dodge as well as a frothing at the mouth red misted barbarian, nor turn any half plate you wear into super magical indestructo half plate by the grace of a couple extra hours of training before you started your life long adventuring career like a fighter, then basically you're ****ed. Monks, I'm looking at you.

Or you can be a caster, run through an ice storm a couple times and ignore the fact that AC got changed at all since nothing hits you anyway.

Combat Trainning is gone by the way...

[oweieie]

Combat Trainning is gone by the way...

Stalwart Defender's 40% isn't.

[grandeibra]

You mean the people not getting raped by the ******** AC changes since they can just run away, who can displace themselves and can implode and blade barrier? I would but they're too busy sipping their drinks in the hot tub with the playboy bunnies

Aww, someone doesn't like change+1 to the first one. I don't think it's change that is the prob, it is that the rich get richer and the poor get TRd even more than before from the look of it.

[Asirin]

The spell Displacement is now self-only.

Guess I missed that in the last round of beta.

The question is why?

Looks to me as preventative measures.

With Displacement getting as good as it is,I am too lazy to cast it on all party members every 3 or 4 minutes.

Yay for me.

[Matuse]

things will be tuned around 150+ AC now and your 40 or 60 will be meaningless.

No, that is just not the case. Right now if you have a 60 AC in epic content, it may as well be 0 for all the times it will make monsters miss you.

In Update 14, 60 AC will generate quite a few misses. And it's also a lot easier to reach, with armor being heavily improved.

[Kakashi67]

No, that is just not the case. Right now if you have a 60 AC in epic content, it may as well be 0 for all the times it will make monsters miss you.

In Update 14, 60 AC will generate quite a few misses. And it's also a lot easier to reach, with armor being heavily improved.

Shhh..they're on a roll.

[oweieie]

No, that is just not the case. Right now if you have a 60 AC in epic content, it may as well be 0 for all the times it will make monsters miss you.

In Update 14, 60 AC will generate quite a few misses. And it's also a lot easier to reach, with armor being heavily improved.

That's the sales pitch, however 70 AC + earth stance 4 meant I was hit 95% of the time for slightly less damage than my sorc when I bothered to let something hit me.

20 AC + displace > 70 AC + earth stance 4 + dodge + incorporeal + blur

Kiting through ice storm while naked > 300 AC

[Kaytis]

...I guess I can always TR into a sorc, unless they also got screwed and I missed it. :D

Don't worry, they get screwed too. The spell power system reduces damage caps overall, and decent burst damage is much much harder to achieve. The ear dweller has been nerfed to near uselessness and blanket immunity to its side effects has been removed (this affects all casters, not just sorc).

[arminius]

Well, if the forums explode over the course of the next week, then we'll know the NDA worked.

If they don't, we'll know it didn't.

I'm guessing from the muted response that the NDA didn't work, and anyone who cares already knew what's coming. Either that or a great many people still haven't looked closely at the beta and what it does even now that it is public. Oh well. Apoplexy Week has been postponed, to the Go Live date.

[Talon_Oakenleaf]

Extra Pre-purchase items are no longer being re-granted upon reincarnation

Does this mean my +3 supreme tomes will no longer be valid if i TR? Or are they only referring to the cat, xp tome from the pre sale?

[Lonnbeimnech]

Extra Pre-purchase items are no longer being re-granted upon reincarnation

Does this mean my +3 supreme tomes will no longer be valid if i TR? Or are they only referring to the cat, xp tome from the pre sale?

They mean the cat and tomes that you already had, and then tr and get a new set of them, that were unusable. You no longer get the new unusable ones, but still keep your old ones.

[DeafeningWhisper]

Extra Pre-purchase items are no longer being re-granted upon reincarnation

Does this mean my +3 supreme tomes will no longer be valid if i TR? Or are they only referring to the cat, xp tome from the pre sale?

Cat, pot and tome only.

[Arakasia]

hang on does this mean that the puirchase of the collectors edition will not provide the goodies that abound around the place...

such as cat, tomes of learning, spider mask.... or did i miss something

[DeafeningWhisper]

hang on does this mean that the puirchase of the collectors edition will not provide the goodies that abound around the place...

such as cat, tomes of learning, spider mask.... or did i miss something

There was what we now know to be a bug, previously it was though to be a nice gift from Turbine we know better now.

If you LRed or TRed a toon, the pre-purchase ticket would appear in your inventory as if you had just made the toon from scratch.

It contained the usual stuff: mask, exp pot, lesser tome and panther.

It was nice to have the extra pot when Tring or after a Lr, that's what's gone, the extra ticket.

[Vistram]

Your character's last public area location is now shown in character select screen.

FINALLY

[Ryggo]

Quote:
Originally Posted by arminius
Well, if the forums explode over the course of the next week, then we'll know the NDA worked.

If they don't, we'll know it didn't.
I'm guessing from the muted response that the NDA didn't work, and anyone who cares already knew what's coming. Either that or a great many people still haven't looked closely at the beta and what it does even now that it is public. Oh well. Apoplexy Week has been postponed, to the Go Live date.
__________________

Or that a significant percent of active readers and posters here have beta access.

[bringjoy]

You mean the people not getting raped by the ******** AC changes since they can just run away, who can displace themselves and can implode and blade barrier? I would but they're too busy sipping their drinks in the hot tub with the playboy bunnies.

LOL! Thanks for making the painful truth a bit less painful for a moment-- the mental image I got from this was quite amusing;)

[Stonemill]

Looks like PBS got shot to hell. Went from double base weapon damage to a +5% to hit. Unless I missed something ranged builds are gonna be hurtin. But they did fix deadly weapons, arties should now expect triple the amount of deadly weapons plz tells

[mikesharpshooter]

Looks like PBS got shot to hell. Went from double base weapon damage to a +5% to hit. Unless I missed something ranged builds are gonna be hurtin. But they did fix deadly weapons, arties should now expect triple the amount of deadly weapons plz tells

eh eh eh you do not know archery is OP?????? O_o

[thakorian]

Looks like most of these changes will negatively affect most of the characters I currently have on my roster, some of which I have spent a great deal of time equipping and TRing. I suppose these changes will apply to all epic content even if one does not purchase the expansion? It would be nice to be able to test this content out for a short while before making the decision to buy the expansion or not, because I would rather not monetarily support gameplay changes that would take away from my enjoyment.

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

I have been briefly flying over the text - I found the part on the "pet collars" interesting.

Does this mean that pets (does this mean summons, too ?) will become more useful later ?

Will the so-called "cosmetic pets" become useful at one point in the future ?

I just wonder.

[Rizzia]

Looks like PBS got shot to hell. Went from double base weapon damage to a +5% to hit. Unless I missed something ranged builds are gonna be hurtin. But they did fix deadly weapons, arties should now expect triple the amount of deadly weapons plz tells

its +5% to hit on top of the exisiting feat.

[Stonemill]

its +5% to hit on top of the exisiting feat.

Your my hero. Had me pretty worried. Do you know if it'll stack with the now working deadly weapons?

[MrkGrismer]

I have been briefly flying over the text - I found the part on the "pet collars" interesting.

Does this mean that pets (does this mean summons, too ?) will become more useful later ?

Will the so-called "cosmetic pets" become useful at one point in the future ?

I just wonder.

The only reason for the collar change is because it would be silly for Druid's wolves to use modules. Collars is generic.

[DarkAlchemist]

Now that is interesting.

Yeah, and I wonder why? According to d20srd rules it is a touch spell so I must ask if DDO is no longer going to abide by the rules? Not pro or con either way but would like an official statement if they are.

[DarkAlchemist]

i'm nervous and excited. that's a whole lotta changes but change is a good thing!
Change for the sake of change is never a good thing but change to improve something is always a good thing though.

[MrkGrismer]

Yeah, and I wonder why? According to d20srd rules it is a touch spell so I must ask if DDO is no longer going to abide by the rules? Not pro or con either way but would like an official statement if they are.

When has ddo ever 'abided' by the rules?

[DarkAlchemist]

When has ddo ever 'abided' by the rules?
Well, I guess you might be right and for this spell it never obeyed the rules either because it is supposed to be a touch spell and I never even knew that but taking away something like this is even worse than when they removed FoM for earthgrab.

I have a suspicion that their player base for DDO is mostly made up of non DnD players (like the dice change in U5) and they are starting to highly move this game in that direction. Afterall I have talked to a lot of players over the years and I have ran into more and more who never even touched DnD so I guess all of these changes were to be expected eventually.

No biggie but still an official word from them would be nice.

[chrichton]

Hard to understand if I am cautiously optimistic or eagerly pessimistic at this point. AC has been reworked so that it is more viable for everyone, unless you were one of the few that invested into making AC viable. Epic blanket wards back in epics have made PMs and rogues much less useful (being diplomatic). Looks like time to mass hold everything but no auto crit anymore so hope you like beating on frozen mobs for extended periods of time. Bleh.

All of this I can deal with. Adapt, improvise, overcome and all that nonsense. What I don't get the point of is why wasnt a lot of this stuff in the closed beta? I don't see a purpose behind the subterfuge. I guess it comes down to a frustration with stealth nerfs. I would rather just know so that I have some measure of control over when there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth than to be blindsided.

Why do you conclude it was "subterfuge"?

[chrichton]

Except it doesn't.

A couple classes/builds got a huge AC boost. If your character didn't get a boost, then don't expect AC to do much for your character, things will be tuned around 150+ AC now and your 40 or 60 will be meaningless.
. . .
Either you didn't read the notes carefully, or I misunderstood them. I don't see how you came to this conclusion.

[chrichton]

Looks like PBS got shot to hell. Went from double base weapon damage to a +5% to hit. Unless I missed something ranged builds are gonna be hurtin. But they did fix deadly weapons, arties should now expect triple the amount of deadly weapons plz tells
It was not clear to me if that +5% was in addition to what it does now, or in replacement.

[Scalion]

Well, I guess you might be right and for this spell it never obeyed the rules either because it is supposed to be a touch spell and I never even knew that but taking away something like this is even worse than when they removed FoM for earthgrab.

I have a suspicion that their player base for DDO is mostly made up of non DnD players (like the dice change in U5) and they are starting to highly move this game in that direction. Afterall I have talked to a lot of players over the years and I have ran into more and more who never even touched DnD so I guess all of these changes were to be expected eventually.

No biggie but still an official word from them would be nice.

This expansion features many changes that are drastic changes from the rules. I think they finally decided to look realistically at what works in the mmo setting versus the tabletop settings and decided that things that dont' work should finally be done away with. By this I especially mean the AC and evasion changes. These changes are long overdue because you would never get the ridiculous numbers in PnP that you have in DDO, so mitigating the damage is necessary versus caclculating a simple hit or miss.

The displacement change really upset me when I read it, but I can understand the reasoning for it. Once everything is working correctly, DDO is going to start needing real tanks that can actually mitigate damage, and everybody else will have to rely on evading damage and controlling their aggro.

[chrichton]

I wonder if a dodge-specced acrobat will actually have good defense after these changes. Here's to hoping they provide more dodge boosts to some of the enhancement chains.

[DarkAlchemist]

This expansion features many changes that are drastic changes from the rules. I think they finally decided to look realistically at what works in the mmo setting versus the tabletop settings and decided that things that dont' work should finally be done away with. By this I especially mean the AC and evasion changes. These changes are long overdue because you would never get the ridiculous numbers in PnP that you have in DDO, so mitigating the damage is necessary versus caclculating a simple hit or miss.

The displacement change really upset me when I read it, but I can understand the reasoning for it. Once everything is working correctly, DDO is going to start needing real tanks that can actually mitigate damage, and everybody else will have to rely on evading damage and controlling their aggro.

I do agree, and always said, that AC should mitigate damage as well but only because it is done like that in the other games I used to play and I am still not used to that either get hit or not but then I revert back to DnD and understand.

The thing is, and this truly upsets me more than anyone could know, is that DDO is quickly becoming just another pixel MMO. I never wanted just another run of the mill MMO so I settled here (even with its faults) only to find out that my comfortable game is now becoming like any other game and seriously if it became like any other game that is out there I might as well go play one of those. *shrug*

Very torn right now over all of this.

[DrunkenBuddha]

Why do you conclude it was "subterfuge"?

Because I assume some degree of competency on the part of Turbine. They've put out a decent product that has maintained a fairly strong fan base, so I think it is fair to say that have got a lot of positives going for them.

My frustration is with what appears to be 11th hour modifications. This open beta is not an isolated incident. They went through all the "hassle" of an NDA (chuckles) and had significant dev interaction with the major changes. Not an iota of a hint that they were essentially nerfing end-game PMs, assassin rogues, discontinuing banking xp, etc. Fine, make those changes or don't, but why wouldn't they disclose that in the closed beta?

Perhaps I am attributing more credit to the devs than is due, or I am betraying my inexperience with how coding for a major game works (or some combination thereof). I would assume that as of the time of the closed beta, they had everything that they're gonna roll out with, and the closed beta was designed to troubleshoot potential issues. Given the proximity of the looming release date of the Live expansion, I didn't think that with open beta they would release yet more significant changes. Perhaps this is my fundamental error. Because otherwise they knew of these changes and intentionally chose not to release them in the closed beta, a decision which makes no sense to me. I am just frustrated by their need to nerf through stealth.

[Xeraphim]

Whoever wrote the notes doesn't know their music genres too well...

Disco Ball was never "techno." It was close to Dubstep but definitively DnB (Drum n Bass). Techno uses instruments as the backbeat rather than thumps and bumps and generally has a clear melody with a clear harmony, two harmonies, two melodies and 3 harmonies, or even more complexity as the artist prefers. House and Progressive make heavy use of a Drum and Bass additive to maintain a steady rhythm, often utilizing Electronica or tacky 80's synthesizer modules with garbage vocals.

A few examples of Progressive that were modified from Techno are Alex MORPH's "Walk the Edge," Niklas Harding's "Ice Beach," ATB and Dash Berlin's "Apollo Road," Fast Distance's "El Mar" and Mike Foyle's "Love Theme Dusk." Other tracks that fall into the Techno/Trance genre are Above and Beyond's "Airwave", the vocal remake "Breathing", Gareth Emery's "Concrete Angel" (with singer Christina Novelli), Cusco's "Montezuma" and Michelle Tumes' "Caelum Infinitum."

[Gremmlynn]

...discontinuing banking xp...Huh? I couldn't find anything about this in the notes.

[DarkAlchemist]

Huh? I couldn't find anything about this in the notes.
I looked and looked and I couldn't either. If this is true that is MAJORLY game breaking to any TR who has to bank due to a lack of XP in certain level ranges even with pots and a greater tome of learning running simultaneously.

[Perceval]

I looked and looked and I couldn't either. If this is true that is MAJORLY game breaking to any TR who has to bank due to a lack of XP in certain level ranges even with pots and a greater tome of learning running simultaneously.

I have TR's my main 5 times now and numerous others. I am not an expert on the quickest way to TR by any means but I have never once had to "Bank" a level due to lack of content.

[DarkAlchemist]

I have TR's my main 5 times now and numerous others. I am not an expert on the quickest way to TR by any means but I have never once had to "Bank" a level due to lack of content.
I sure have with my 8 TRs but, then again, I pug only and that makes a HUGE difference.

People bank due to lack of quests that can be filled via the pug scene (me) and because they want to run a quest into the ground for massive XP (like Von3/5/Shadow Crypt/Delera's) and because many do not want to run S/R/E anymore so banking allows those in the later to get to 20, and not having to resort to S/R/E like we did in the older days, while those in the former (me) have to cause pugs don't do all of the content. Besides I seriously don't think 4.3 million xp can be done on just quests running them only once but I could be wrong.

[Sinsyne]

I'm a premium, little more than casual plr who has all the adv packs. I've used greater learning tome and a few xp pots from House C... did a 3rd TR life with almost no grinding. (Duoing all the quests on elite.)
It was refreshening slicing through content without repeating stuff...

Hmm... maybe I haven't even done Vale quests on normal (elite once, hard once), though I admit I did Shadow Crypt twice (elite, hard) and Tomb of Tormented maybe 3 or 4 times (that being one of the more fun quests).

That's all because with the tome and elite streak and first time elite some quests have unreal xp I think even without VON5 (cc. 50-75K??) and elite Twilight Forge (which should be 2-3 mannable now and gives around 50K XP) the mid levels flew by quickly and the dreaded lvl 16-18 was a breeze too. (Had to do Kobold, Prey on hunter E/H/N but no monastery E. )

[DarkAlchemist]

I'm a premium, little more than casual plr who has all the adv packs. I've used greater learning tome and a few xp pots from House C... did a 3rd TR life with almost no grinding. (Duoing all the quests on elite.)
It was refreshening slicing through content without repeating stuff...

Hmm... maybe I haven't even done Vale quests on normal (elite once, hard once), though I admit I did Shadow Crypt twice (elite, hard) and Tomb of Tormented maybe 3 or 4 times (that being one of the more fun quests).

That's all because with the tome and elite streak and first time elite some quests have unreal xp I think even without VON5 (cc. 50-75K??) and elite Twilight Forge (which should be 2-3 mannable now and gives around 50K XP) the mid levels flew by quickly and the dreaded lvl 16-18 was a breeze too. (Had to do Kobold, Prey on hunter E/H/N but no monastery E. )
I could not pug Monestary on elite since last Oct via a pug and that is about 4 lives now. I just skip it now as you can't even fill the quest on Thelanis the last two lives I have tried and breaking my elite streak for this one quest is a nono. Even Prey on the Hunter I had a hard time filling because people would tell me it was too hard. Too hard I asked? I said no and when I did fill it we did it without a healer even though some were complaining at the start about no healer but once we got into the quest we just did it with not even a single death. So, hard it was not, nor has it ever been that I have ran it on elite.

Frankly on Thelanis it seems to take people about 45 mins to 2-3 hours to fill a single pug quest so I basically try and solo what I can these days since everyone I know just up and left (I suspect they are over in the beta so I am waiting to see if they return June 25). Maybe it is Thelanis, maybe it is the pug scene on the whole or maybe it is me but I will say many people I talk to do say the pug scene is just dead. Either you solo the content or have enough time to watch a full length movie waiting to fill.

So, when it used to be easy to fill a pug I hadn't TR'd yet and now that I have TR'd the pug scene went to pot so I really do not know if 4.3 million xp is easily achievable without grinding the same set of quests ad nauseum. What I do know is that without the greater tome of learning and running a streak I had a heck of a time leveling up my last life (3rd life now on 4th).

I bow and tip my hat to all of those original TRs that had no streak and no learning tomes to help them along for they were the original pioneers for sure.

[erystelle1972]

To be honest Casters needed a nerf, so this is .....

*Looks again*

Oh oh - Melee are even worse off........

*Cries*

Clickies, gotta love them......

[axel15810]

Whoever wrote the notes doesn't know their music genres too well...

Disco Ball was never "techno." It was close to Dubstep but definitively DnB (Drum n Bass). Techno uses instruments as the backbeat rather than thumps and bumps and generally has a clear melody with a clear harmoy, two harmonies, two melodies and 3 harmonies, or even more complexity as the artist prefers. House and Progressive make heavy use of a Drum and Bass additive to maintain a steady rhythm, often utilizing Electronica or tacky 80's synthesizer modules with garbage vocals.

A few examples of Progressive that were modified from Techno are Alex MORPH's "Walk the Edge," Niklas Harding's "Ice Beach," ATB and Dash Berlin's "Apollo Road," Fast Distance's "El Mar" and Mike Foyle's "Love Theme Dusk." Other tracks that fall into the Techno/Trance genre are Above and Beyond's "Airwave", the vocal remake "Dreaming", Gareth Emery's "Concrete Angel" (with singer Christina Novelli), Cusco's "Montezuma" and Michelle Tumes' "Caelum Infinitum."

Wow...come down to earth a little bit :D. They're just giving a general (maybe not 100% musically accurate) description so people get the gist of what the change is going to be. Their goal is to effectively communicate the change to players, not write a music history report, lol.

[Xeraphim]

I looked and looked and I couldn't either. If this is true that is MAJORLY game breaking to any TR who has to bank due to a lack of XP in certain level ranges even with pots and a greater tome of learning running simultaneously.

Quite.

Specifically: levels 12, 13, 18-20

[Xeraphim]

<snip>
I seriously don't think 4.3 million xp can be done on just quests running them only once but I could be wrong.

It should be possible, but isn't. Furthermore, it should be faster than the current "farm the best XP/Min quests" method, but isn't.

[Xeraphim]

Wow...come down to earth a little bit :D. They're just giving a general (maybe not 100% musically accurate) description so people get the gist of what the change is going to be. Their goal is to effectively communicate the change to players, not write a music history report, lol.


I've just had the incessant heckling of soft rock, ballad and country addicts constantly confusing the subject all my life. I felt able to contribute without an uphill verbal confrontation stemming from the contribution, so I did.

It's easy to see vocals as just another instrument for some folks. To others, strip away all but the vocals and they simply adore the tonal recitation.

[Xeraphim]

I have TR'd my main 5 times now and numerous others. I am not an expert on the quickest way to TR by any means but I have never once had to "Bank" a level due to lack of content.

It's the difference between reaching level cap in a respectable amount of time, or an absurdly excessive amount of time. Comparison: My Artificer mess caps in about 3-4 months after holding a level (or part of a level) after I reach level 11. Without banking XP, my Monk took 22 months to cap. This is the difference.

[chrichton]

I do agree, and always said, that AC should mitigate damage as well but only because it is done like that in the other games I used to play and I am still not used to that either get hit or not but then I revert back to DnD and understand.

The thing is, and this truly upsets me more than anyone could know, is that DDO is quickly becoming just another pixel MMO. I never wanted just another run of the mill MMO so I settled here (even with its faults) only to find out that my comfortable game is now becoming like any other game and seriously if it became like any other game that is out there I might as well go play one of those. *shrug*

Very torn right now over all of this.

No need for tearing just yet. Wait for the changes, play them out, and then decide.

[Oxlar7]

This expansion features many changes that are drastic changes from the rules. I think they finally decided to look realistically at what works in the mmo setting versus the tabletop settings and decided that things that dont' work should finally be done away with. By this I especially mean the AC and evasion changes. These changes are long overdue because you would never get the ridiculous numbers in PnP that you have in DDO, so mitigating the damage is necessary versus caclculating a simple hit or miss.

The displacement change really upset me when I read it, but I can understand the reasoning for it. Once everything is working correctly, DDO is going to start needing real tanks that can actually mitigate damage, and everybody else will have to rely on evading damage and controlling their aggro.

yeah instead of fixing the real problem, which is the bloat, they did this.

[Xeraphim]

This expansion features many changes that are drastic changes from the rules. I think they finally decided to look realistically at what works in the mmo setting versus the tabletop settings and decided that things that dont' work should finally be done away with. By this I especially mean the AC and evasion changes. These changes are long overdue because you would never get the ridiculous numbers in PnP that you have in DDO, so mitigating the damage is necessary versus caclculating a simple hit or miss.

The displacement change really upset me when I read it, but I can understand the reasoning for it. Once everything is working correctly, DDO is going to start needing real tanks that can actually mitigate damage, and everybody else will have to rely on evading damage and controlling their aggro.

I think it's a better idea given the current gear CR scaling of having metagamers constantly charging after the next overpowered item and making extremely specific builds that are mathematically maxed out and running the same content that the rest of everyone else is expected to be able to complete without too much griefing.

As far as "the bloat" goes, it would be nice if we could do things the PnP way, but quite simply put: That is not coterminous with an online or computed gaming environment, as the DMs in a tabletop setting would frequently change the campaign to balance the difficulty against player ingenuity and character build/gear CR. Computers do not do this. Therefore, a broader, more calculated approach must be taken.

[MrkGrismer]

Not an iota of a hint that they were essentially nerfing end-game PMs, assassin rogues, discontinuing banking xp, etc. Fine, make those changes or don't, but why wouldn't they disclose that in the closed beta?

Turns out none of these are happening. The non-banking of xp was a bug, it is getting fixed.

[Kiel]

Except it doesn't.

A couple classes/builds got a huge AC boost. If your character didn't get a boost, then don't expect AC to do much for your character, things will be tuned around 150+ AC now and your 40 or 60 will be meaningless.

A couple classes got a huge dodge boost clicky. If your character didn't, or the clicky is on timer, expect to be a punching bag.

If your character can neither dodge as well as a frothing at the mouth red misted barbarian, nor turn any half plate you wear into super magical indestructo half plate by the grace of a couple extra hours of training before you started your life long adventuring career like a fighter, then basically you're ****ed. Monks, I'm looking at you.

Or you can be a caster, run through an ice storm a couple times and ignore the fact that AC got changed at all since nothing hits you anyway.

Luckily my monk is so flexable..../grabs ankles and cries like a girl

[goodspeed]

[[[[Monk earth stance should grant 0/6/12/20 Physical Resistance and 5%/10%/15%/20% AC.

Ultimate Mountain Stance Martial Arts Stance: The unyielding mountain focuses on endurance and defense. Ultimate Mountain Stance grants +4 Constitution, a 20% boost to AC, 15 physical resistance, a +70% Insight bonus to melee threat generation, and the critical multiplier of all weapons you use is increased by 1 on rolls of a natural 19 or 20, at the cost of -2 Dexterity and -10% movement speed. While in Ultimate Mountain Stance, you gain 'Get Hit Effect: Gain 1 ki.']]]]

Soooo is it 15 or 20 physical resistance?


Also it could be just me,... erm, it looks an aweful lot like they just took a bat and wailed on the frenzied barbarians nads. I mean cleave, supreme cleave, uncanny, all these with longer cooldowns. In case anyone was wondering as of now in live you can spam that supreme cleave as fast as you can click. what +2 dmg added to it? I could do prolly 500 times that in those 5 seconds.

Also theirs alot of %. For instance here.

[[[[Defensive Fighting: should now grant 5% AC bonus and a -5% to-hit penalty. Increases spell cooldowns to 3x normal.]]]]

Now exactly what is a %? A normal % is a fraction of a sum. Some base sum. So what's the sum? Is it what we have? Does it go off of 100? Is their a cap for these things? Is to hit giving us a 5% miss chance as if we blured our vision? What is it? Same with AC. Do these things stack? What's the cap? Lots of %'s floating around these notes.

[[[[The amount of hit points class pets receive has been adjusted to be more appropriate for their level throughout gameplay.]]]]

Does this mean I could actually stomach the thought of summoning my worthless arti dog past lv 13?

And it looks like all hell is to break loose with various poison and disease types? mummy rot all around!

And this [[[The spell Displacement is now self-only.]]] Now that is a blow. Granted any melee worth his chubby self should have the clickies after a first life. But still ouch.

[[[[Corrected a memory leak issue]]]] Does this mean our pc's macs.. and lol linux won't flip us the bird as we zone into an exlorer area, a ship, or just plain old running through a city zone?

[Inferno346]

Whoever wrote the notes doesn't know their music genres too well...

Disco Ball was never &quot;techno.&quot; It was close to Dubstep but definitively DnB (Drum n Bass). Techno uses instruments as the backbeat rather than thumps and bumps and generally has a clear melody with a clear harmony, two harmonies, two melodies and 3 harmonies, or even more complexity as the artist prefers. House and Progressive make heavy use of a Drum and Bass additive to maintain a steady rhythm, often utilizing Electronica or tacky 80's synthesizer modules with garbage vocals.

A few examples of Progressive that were modified from Techno are Alex MORPH's &quot;Walk the Edge,&quot; Niklas Harding's &quot;Ice Beach,&quot; ATB and Dash Berlin's &quot;Apollo Road,&quot; Fast Distance's &quot;El Mar&quot; and Mike Foyle's &quot;Love Theme Dusk.&quot; Other tracks that fall into the Techno/Trance genre are Above and Beyond's &quot;Airwave&quot;, the vocal remake &quot;Breathing&quot;, Gareth Emery's &quot;Concrete Angel&quot; (with singer Christina Novelli), Cusco's &quot;Montezuma&quot; and Michelle Tumes' &quot;Caelum Infinitum.&quot;

Lies, this is Progressive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ovor_ZWrAm8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgUpLcnLkxs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9IQnDRYIYU

[DarkAlchemist]

No need for tearing just yet. Wait for the changes, play them out, and then decide.

Aye, that is exactly what I plan on doing else I would not even be posting but I do have my fears. Know what my biggest fear is over anything Turbine could do to me or my characters? That everyone I knew doesn't reappear after the beta ends and/or the LFM stays the same as it is now (or heaven forbid gets worse).

I like DDO very much and why I came back so I am waiting to see how all of this plays out. :)