The most interesting thing about ship buffs...

[Galeria]

is that you can tell exactly how long you've been waiting for the Shroud to fill.

Then the last person joins and says,

"BRT, buffing."

Sigh.

[sirgog]

is that you can tell exactly how long you've been waiting for the Shroud to fill.

Then the last person joins and says,

"BRT, buffing."

Sigh.

Three-step way to fix this:

1) Change LFM to 'starting immediately when full'

2) Step into Shroud and talk to Quissana

3) Complete with 10 when the 'my buffs are so important you all have to wait for me' inconsiderates are locked out.


Of course this only applies when you are running a difficulty that your group will find easy, such as Normal in a PUG or Hard in a channel group.

[Galeria]

Yes, perfect. I need to start leading my own shrouds instead of joining others. 10-11 people on normal is plenty.

[Miahoo]

is that you can tell exactly how long you've been waiting for the Shroud to fill.

Then the last person joins and says,

"BRT, buffing."

Sigh.

Just start it, and tell him he should hurry if he doesnt wanna locked out.
When I'm the last spot on a shroud I usually say: 'brt, u can start, I'll catch up'.

[Orratti]

Put "buff before hitting lfm" on the lfm.

[Izzban]

I still find it amusing that players think it matters if you buff before or after you hit the join key. You are still waiting 2 minutes either way. Or do you think there is a whole line of already buffed players waiting for the pleasure of running with you?

Again, if I am the last one to join and I buff for 2 minutes before I hit the join key you still waited the same 2 minutes.

[Orratti]

I still find it amusing that players think it matters if you buff before or after you hit the join key. You are still waiting 2 minutes either way. Or do you think there is a whole line of already buffed players waiting for the pleasure of running with you?

Again, if I am the last one to join and I buff for 2 minutes before I hit the join key you still waited the same 2 minutes.

nope you are not waiting as long. Those that see the lfm will start buffing and then yes shortly you may have a line of already buffed players waiting to join you. Otherwise you aren't going to be waiting because of the buffing but because no one wants to join.

[edit]To op nm I see what you're saying. Most of the time while you are in party waiting for it to fill alot of people hang out on the boat so they can buff at the same time as the last person joining. You can spend those 2 min buffing instead of waiting. :)

[Gawna]

I will give the last person to join enough time to make it to Meridia. Then I step in, haste, rage and tell everyone that if they're not in, they better be soon because I'm lighting this candle. I've never run a Shroud when I've thought, "That would have gone better if I'd have given that last guy enough time to get ship buffs."

[Jasparion]

I will give the last person to join enough time to make it to Meridia. Then I step in, haste, rage and tell everyone that if they're not in, they better be soon because I'm lighting this candle. I've never run a Shroud when I've thought, "That would have gone better if I'd have given that last guy enough time to get ship buffs."

Yep, if it fails, it fails because the group failed, not because one guy didnt get his buffs.

I 9 manned it recently after 1 guy went "AFK for 5 min" when the group had 11 people - he ended up being gone for 10 min and missed out. Then 2 more DCd once in.

We went 2 rounds on Phase 4, but other than that, it really didnt seem to take any longer than when there are 12 people.

[Dolphious]

I do wish people would just come instead of buffing, but I don't start it without everyone; that's just not the vibe I'm looking for in any group. OTOH if we've got 10/11 people standing around in meridia I'll happily close the LFM and shortman (assuming I'm confident we won't have any problem, which is usually, but not always, true), I just don't really care to have someone "join my group" and then tell them I'm going to leave without them.

[Izzban]

nope you are not waiting as long. Those that see the lfm will start buffing and then yes shortly you may have a line of already buffed players waiting to join you. Otherwise you aren't going to be waiting because of the buffing but because no one wants to join.

Seriously, you missed it. You still waited on whoever joined last to buff. It doesn't matter who it is. You still waited on the last guy to finish his buffs before he hit the join.

It doesn't matter if you have a whole line of buffed players, you still waited for them to buff!

[sirgog]

It strikes me as really odd to buff for Shroud of all raids, except in the situation of a static group where noone really has run Shroud much.

On Normal, PUGs destroy the raid every time.

On Hard and Elite, you lose your buffs (due to storyline death) before the fight in which you are most likely to wipe.

[Orratti]

Seriously, you missed it. You still waited on whoever joined last to buff. It doesn't matter who it is. You still waited on the last guy to finish his buffs before he hit the join.

It doesn't matter if you have a whole line of buffed players, you still waited for them to buff!

I edited my post because I realized op was talking about being in another persons party insead of his own. Still I am correct about the lfm because of this. I'm taking the players that buffed first and fastest meaning they are ready when they hit the lfm. They're not exchanging things at the bank while the party fills, they are not crafting while waiting for the party to fill, they aren't doing slayers, they are on their boat and on the way to the quest when they join. That makes it quicker than accepting people that are unbuffed.

[Izzban]

I edited my post because I realized op was talking about being in another persons party insead of his own. Still I am correct about the lfm because of this. I'm taking the players that buffed first and fastest meaning they are ready when they hit the lfm. They're not exchanging things at the bank while the party fills, they are not crafting while waiting for the party to fill, they aren't doing slayers, they are on their boat and on the way to the quest when they join. That makes it quicker than accepting people that are unbuffed.

Last time, heh.

The topic was buffing, not banks, crafting, etc. Those are completely different situations.

On the topic of buffing, if your last party member comes to the party fully ship buffed you all waited for him to get those ship buffs. He could as well hit the join button as soon as he decided he wanted to join that party (and then buff) because the group still had to wait for him.

I think some take the view of person X hits the join then starts buffing just as person Y finishes buffing and misses the join. My response is: if you all would stop trying to get everyone to buff before they hit the join button, you would have had person Y in the group 2 minutes ago and be on your way to the quest.

;)

[kclark1980]

I think part of the problems is that vale is not a raid area so people have to use a navigator to get over to it so they figure oh I'll buff at the same time. I know when I want to go I don't have a navigator on my ship so I either have to ask them to wait for me to make the run or to be allowed access to a ship with a navigator. I wont buff because I know they are in a hurry but it still takes time to get there.

[varusso]

If you dont want to have enough courtesy to let the last person joining buff just like everyone else did, then take down the LFM and run with what you have. You folks make WAY too much of an issue over someone else wanting their buffs. You probably already waited 10+ mins for a second healer. Dont act like an extra couple for the last ppl to join to get their buffs is an issue.

When *I* run a shroud, I always give the last person the same chance as everyone else. If you want buffs, grab em. Generally speaking, once I see 2 healers in any raid, i grab my buffs right then, cos I know its gonna fill quickly after that. But i ALWAYS give folks a chance to buff as soon as the last person joins -- "Buff now, get your drink, whatever. We are starting in 3 mins".

And yes, you lose your buffs right before pt 5 anyway. Doesnt change the fact that they are useful up until then.

Theres absolutely no need to pull the rude elitist nonsense over ship buffs. Let them get their buffs and then go easy-mode the raid. Its seriously NOT as big a deal as you make it out to be.

[Enoach]

You know its posts like these that honestly make me want to put up an LFM - "Anyone with buffs will be booted."

Buffs are a luxury not a necessity.

On the issue of "Are you waiting on that person if they gets buffs before or after they join an LFM?".

While you are waiting on a person either way, what your not waiting on is them getting buffs. Reason: They are not holding a position and thus are not even considered until they join the LFM. This means another person can still join during that time, taking the position the buffer had hope to fill.

[Zeruell]

Its seriously NOT as big a deal as you make it out to be.

To you.

It's extremely rare that I'm ever in a situation where I care about another two minutes, but I'm not going to demand that others spend their time in a given way, regardless of how big or small a deal it might be, to me.

[Izzban]

On the issue of "Are you waiting on that person if they gets buffs before or after they join an LFM?".

While you are waiting on a person either way, what your not waiting on is them getting buffs. Reason: They are not holding a position and thus are not even considered until they join the LFM. This means another person can still join during that time, taking the position the buffer had hope to fill.

I already explained this one.



I think some take the view of person X hits the join then starts buffing just as person Y finishes buffing and misses the join. My response is: if you all would stop trying to get everyone to buff before they hit the join button, you would have had person Y in the group 2 minutes ago and be on your way to the quest.


If the person joining your group has fresh ship buffs, then you waited for them to get the buffs. Whether they were in your group (while buffing) or not is irrelevent. You STILL waited for them to get the buffs because they didn't hit the join till they got the buffs. If you assume that there was someone else, let's call them player Y, all buffed up and ready to hit the join...you STILL waited on player Y to get his buffs too.

No matter how you slice it, you wait on players to get ship buffs.

[Orratti]

If the person joining your group has fresh ship buffs, then you waited for them to get the buffs. Whether they were in your group (while buffing) or not is irrelevent. You STILL waited for them to get the buffs because they didn't hit the join till they got the buffs. If you assume that there was someone else, let's call them player Y, all buffed up and ready to hit the join...you STILL waited on player Y to get his buffs too.

No matter how you slice it, you wait on players to get ship buffs.

;) how can you be waiting on someone who isn't even in the party yet?

I can see what you are saying but that twinked my humor. It's as if so and so was destined to be a part of our party and we unknowingly were waiting on him to buff. From our perspective we weren't waiting on him to buff we were waiting on him to join.

[varusso]

To you.

It's extremely rare that I'm ever in a situation where I care about another two minutes, but I'm not going to demand that others spend their time in a given way, regardless of how big or small a deal it might be, to me.

Once again, if those 2-3 minutes are more important to you than a simple act of common courtesy, then take down your LFM and run with what you have. If you plan on telling them to get in NOW cos you are starting with or without them, then why bother trying to fill that spot at all? You waited for them to join, the least you can do is extend them a simple courtesy. I bet if it were the second healer joining last, you wouldnt be so quick to be so obnoxious to them, and none of the other folks in the party would begrudge them either -- or at least would keep their traps shut about it. Every OTHER class (or more to the point every PLAYER) deserves the same courtesy.

[sirgog]

Once again, if those 2-3 minutes are more important to you than a simple act of common courtesy, then take down your LFM and run with what you have. If you plan on telling them to get in NOW cos you are starting with or without them, then why bother trying to fill that spot at all? You waited for them to join, the least you can do is extend them a simple courtesy. I bet if it were the second healer joining last, you wouldnt be so quick to be so obnoxious to them, and none of the other folks in the party would begrudge them either -- or at least would keep their traps shut about it. Every OTHER class (or more to the point every PLAYER) deserves the same courtesy.

Unless it's Elite, I'd kick them if I was the first healer.

I can't think of many things more rude that to make 11 people wait for a trivial buff. What you are really saying is:

"I just want to see bigger numbers on my screen. I don't care about your time at all."

Now of course none of this applies if you are in a group where you think the buffs might be the difference between success and failure (or 0 resources and non-0 resources), but the only difficulties of Shroud where failures happen in PUGs do not let you use buffs in the hardest part.

[varusso]

Unless it's Elite, I'd kick them if I was the first healer.

I can't think of many things more rude that to make 11 people wait for a trivial buff. What you are really saying is:

"I just want to see bigger numbers on my screen. I don't care about your time at all."

Now of course none of this applies if you are in a group where you think the buffs might be the difference between success and failure (or 0 resources and non-0 resources), but the only difficulties of Shroud where failures happen in PUGs do not let you use buffs in the hardest part.

No, actually it says:
"I want to get these buffs so I can save my SP for other things, and speed up rebuffing in the quest. I also want to make sure my DCs are as high as possible, saving me more SP and making it more likely a critical spell lands, or we move through quicker. All of this means I have more SP for healing/nuking/whatever, which only benefits the group as a whole."

On non-blue bars, it means they dont have to spend resources or beg buffs from other players. It also means they deal more damage to the mobs, making the healers' job easier (dead mobs dont hit back, meaning less healing). Ship buffs are not a necessity, but they make it easier and quicker.

Its really pretty simple. Dont bother buffing till the party fills, then everyone go buff and do your raid. Absolutely no reason for all this nonsense.

If you actually DID kick the second healer just for wanting to grab buffs, you would find yourself quickly losing other party members, esp if it took a while to get that second healer in the first place. You may not care if they drop, but that only highlights my point: its an unnecessarily rude thing to do, when it is a simple matter of common courtesy to give everyone a chance to buff if they want.

Something to think about: We have each spent more time reading and debating this than the amount of time it would cost to wait for anyone to get ship buffs.

[FranOhmsford]

Unless it's Elite, I'd kick them if I was the first healer.

I can't think of many things more rude that to make 11 people wait for a trivial buff. What you are really saying is:

"I just want to see bigger numbers on my screen. I don't care about your time at all."

Now of course none of this applies if you are in a group where you think the buffs might be the difference between success and failure (or 0 resources and non-0 resources), but the only difficulties of Shroud where failures happen in PUGs do not let you use buffs in the hardest part.

OK having never done elite Shroud I have to query this - On Norm and Hard PT 4 is by far the hardest part - Get thru that and you will complete.

The loss of shipbuffs between pt 4 and 5 notwithstanding - PT 5 is simply easier than PT 4.

[dmslasher]

why buff 4 shroud? do ship buffs make you run to portals faster? no. do they help you solve puzzles faster? no. do they last thru dieing? no so you buff for 2 parts of a 5 part raid one of witch is more common sense then dps cuz you really dont want to kill the mobs 2 fast. waist of your time and everyone else's.