Warforged Battle-Cleric - Am I insane?

[Olath_Senger]

So here's the deal; a while ago I posted a thread asking for advice on my first cleric, an offensive caster. While I thoroughly enjoyed the healing aspect of the class, I wasn't so fond of the offensive casting. So I decided to reroll. I spent a good long while thinking of potential melee builds; clonks, 19/1 dwarves with a fighter level, and then it hit me - what about a pure 20 Warforged? Gets rid of the massive dependence on a healer for melees and allows me to do what I've recently found to enjoy, group heal.

Why a Warforged? Well, because I'm a bit of an addict. I love Warforged when I can heal with my blue bar. The immunities, built-in waterbreathing and overall coolness of the race is very tempting for any self-healing class.

Here's the build I came up with:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.11.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)
Level 20 True Neutral Warforged Male
(20 Cleric)
Hit Points: 302
Spell Points: 1372
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 5
Will: 15
Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Strength 16 21 21
Dexterity 8 8 8
Constitution 16 16 18
Intelligence 8 8 8
Wisdom 14 14 17
Charisma 12 12 14
Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance -1 -1
Bluff 1 2
Concentration 7 27
Diplomacy 1 2
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 1 2
Heal 2 5
Hide -1 -1
Intimidate 1 2
Jump 3 5
Listen 2 3
Move Silently -1 -1
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 -1
Search -1 -1
Spot 2 3
Swim 3 5
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness

Level 2 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)

Level 3 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell

Level 4 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)

Level 5 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)

Level 6 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell

Level 7 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)

Level 8 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)

Level 9 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell

Level 10 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)

Level 11 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)

Level 12 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons

Level 13 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)

Level 14 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)

Level 15 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack

Level 16 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)

Level 17 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)

Level 18 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell

Level 19 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)

Level 20 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
Enhancement: Follower of the Lord of Blades
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Heal I
Enhancement: Improved Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot III
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma I
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom III
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Healing I
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning II
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning III
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning IV
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution I
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution II
Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend I
Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend II
Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend III
Enhancement: Warforged Inscribed Armor I



Will that amount of SP be enough for endgame healing after items and such? I imagine I should be able to get it to around 2000 but I want to be sure. Also, is Inscribed Armor necessary for a Cleric or can I drop it? I know Clerics don't get ASF so I'm assuming I don't need it.

Any feat swaps I should do? Will my to-hit be high enough to justify taking Power Attack? Extend was taken a little late, I know, but I was unsure of what else to take.

[Truga]

Will that amount of SP be enough for endgame healing after items and such? I imagine I should be able to get it to around 2000 but I want to be sure.Should be fine. With your radiant aura and radiant bursts, 2000 is plenty.
Also, is Inscribed Armor necessary for a Cleric or can I drop it? I know Clerics don't get ASF so I'm assuming I don't need it.Unless you intend UMDing arcane scrolls (and I can see you have dumped UMD), you can safely ignore it.

[morticianjohn]

Quicken over extend and take it at level 12 IMO (15 at the latest)

you don't need inscribed armor on a divine

I guess if you like WF that much this could be ok but seriously.... would be better as a fleshy human with weapon prof or half elf with fighter dilly IMO or a 19/1, 18/2 with fighter levels.

As far as how much you will be using power attack.... it depends on what buffs you can get

rage, yugo pots, recitation, bard songs, GH, etc.... will determine if your "to hit" is high enough for PA on or off. When I first started gearing my WF FvS I had PA off for everything but now with yugo pots, self buffed good hope, Exceptional str +1 and +2 from my ToD ring, GH clicky, etc.... I can have PA on much of the time. I still have to turn it off for certain mobs and many bosses but it's a useful feat to have IMO

[PNellesen]

If you're looking to go melee cleric, try STR-Based Half-Orc 19C/1F (I ALMOST went 1 Barbarian, but didn't want THAT much griefing when trying to join parties :p )

I've got one at level 18 now, and he is a blast to play. Give him the standard "healy" feats/enhancements (because, you know, it's what Clerics do, sometimes), boost his smiting (since Divine Punishment is pretty useful, even with any rumored nerfs to clickies), then some of the Horc melee/str enhancements. You won't regret it :)

[firemedium_jt]

If you're looking to go melee cleric, try STR-Based Half-Orc 19C/1F (I ALMOST went 1 Barbarian, but didn't want THAT much griefing when trying to join parties :p )

I've got one at level 18 now, and he is a blast to play. Give him the standard "healy" feats/enhancements (because, you know, it's what Clerics do, sometimes), boost his smiting (since Divine Punishment is pretty useful, even with any rumored nerfs to clickies), then some of the Horc melee/str enhancements. You won't regret it :)

I am running a STR based 2hdr one too I just started at lvl7. Plan is CLR17/FTR2/WIZ1. I went base STR19 (STR+1 FTR 2nd lvl). Took CLR6/WIZ1. Lots of Master's touch. With low Wisdom lvl9 spells wont hit I guess. Mass Heal and maybe Neg Energy Drain (no save) or True Res.

Thinking Stun and Improved Sunder after GTHF if I can get advice on how they are on a non-Barbarian.

Can you post your build?

[axel15810]

OP -

WF can work, but it's the worst choice of race for battle cleric by far IMO. If you want it as a flavor choice it's ok do what's fun for you, you'll still get into parties. But you're really just getting the -50% healing and nothing in return. As a cleric WF immunities mean even less since you have the spells to cure all ailments you're immune to.

Things I would recommend:

balance...can't heal on your back.

you don't need empower and maximize...with both on + empower heal you will way overheal. I'd drop empower.

Extend is ok for DF and DP. I have it on my battle cleric but i'd recommend you take it earlier.

Drop the healbot enhancements...pick up smiting

I'd recommend you splash 2 levels of fighter. Cleric capstone is pretty useless.

GL

[Habreno]

I'd go 19/1 Cleric/Fighter Half-Elf with Monk Dilletante.

This gets you decent healing amplification and proficencies, as well as an 8th feat and still a full aura.

[firemedium_jt]

Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
Enhancement: Follower of the Lord of Blades
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Heal I
Enhancement: Improved Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV --- last thing to delete for points.
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I-delete
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II-delete
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot III-delete
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma I
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom III
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Healing I ----Divine Might1 is a lot more useful
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning II
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning III-delete
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning IV-delete
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution I
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution II
Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend I
Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend II -delete - expensive for 5%. Can you overheal yourself as a Warforge is the ???
Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend III - delete
Enhancement: Warforged Inscribed Armor I -delete - Cleric spells are not arcane.

[/code]

Will that amount of SP be enough for endgame healing after items and such? I imagine I should be able to get it to around 2000 but I want to be sure. Also, is Inscribed Armor necessary for a Cleric or can I drop it? I know Clerics don't get ASF so I'm assuming I don't need it.

Any feat swaps I should do? Will my to-hit be high enough to justify taking Power Attack? Extend was taken a little late, I know, but I was unsure of what else to take.


Take more smiting 1-4 and criticals too. You can drop Life of the Magic 4 if u need more points. Many think it is just overhealing.

Take one or two tiers of Scroll Mastery. Atleast Tier 1 is nice at mid lvls.

[Zachski]

People say Warforged Cleric is the worst choice for self-healing purposes, but then some of the best FVS builds are Warforged, and they seem to do fine with self-healing.

Really, all it means is that you have to approach healing yourself the way you'd approach healing any other warforged in the party, except this time, you know what your healing amp is and can adjust it to be comfortable.

[FranOhmsford]

Cleric is possibly the only class in the game where WF are definitively the worst possible choice.

However I applaud your wish to play a WF Cleric for Roleplay reasons and your set-up does not look bad to me.

I am wondering why you're taking Extend at lvl 18 though - Extend is best utilised at low levels {If you can hold off taking that Toughness feat then you can take Extend at lvl 1 and use your free feat swap to get Toughness at 12}.

Quicken is a massive feat but as far as I know not really needed until you have Mass Heal i.e. Lvl 17 - You might want to take Quicken at 15 and PA at 18 if you don't want to wait till 18 to be able to utilise Mass Heal properly.

As for splashes - 2 Fighter is pretty obvious - 2 extra feats.
2 Ranger may be workable for Fav Enemy, Bows etc.
2 Paladin gives you a Lay on Hands and Divine Grace

[Olath_Senger]

I guess I need to clarify a couple things;

I do not have Half-Orc or Half-Elf available.

I realize I would do much better as a fleshy. However, levelling with a splash in any caster, whether it be divine or arcane, is very painful to me. I hate getting spells a level later. As a Warforged with LoB enhancements, I won't have to worry about that which is another major reason for choosing the race.

Warforged is very much a flavor choice. I should still be viable at endgame and while leveling. Optimal? Of course not. But I rarely play builds that are optimized for endgame content. I'm rather set on this race, and I'm certain I can make it work.

Now that I've cleared things up, time for responding to feedback.

A few people have suggested taking Smiting enhancements. I'm not planning on doing offensive casting, so what's the purpose?

I completely forgot about Quicken. I'll take that at 15 and push Power Attack to 18.

Dropping Inscribed Armor and some other less useful enhancements for Wand and Scroll Mastery II (or III). Completely went over my head that Inscribed Armor is for Arcanes. Whoops.

[Zachski]

Cleric is possibly the only class in the game where WF are definitively the worst possible choice.

Is it as bad as a Horc Wiz, though? :D

[Fishcatch22]

I guess I need to clarify a couple things;

I do not have Half-Orc or Half-Elf available.

I realize I would do much better as a fleshy. However, levelling with a splash in any caster, whether it be divine or arcane, is very painful to me. I hate getting spells a level later. As a Warforged with LoB enhancements, I won't have to worry about that which is another major reason for choosing the race.

Warforged is very much a flavor choice. I should still be viable at endgame and while leveling. Optimal? Of course not. But I rarely play builds that are optimized for endgame content. I'm rather set on this race, and I'm certain I can make it work.

Now that I've cleared things up, time for responding to feedback.

A few people have suggested taking Smiting enhancements. I'm not planning on doing offensive casting, so what's the purpose?

I completely forgot about Quicken. I'll take that at 15 and push Power Attack to 18.

Dropping Inscribed Armor and some other less useful enhancements for Wand and Scroll Mastery II (or III). Completely went over my head that Inscribed Armor is for Arcanes. Whoops.Smiting is mostly for Divine Punishment, a very useful DoT that Clerics/FvS get. It is a very powerful bosskiller ability, and some might even say max out the smite crit line too for it.

[Zachski]

Yeah, Divine Punishment is the most powerful spell in the arsenal of the Cleric and FVS.

it also has no save and always hits.

Whether you're a healbot, an offensive caster, or a melee, you will want to use Divine Punishment.

[Habreno]

I guess I need to clarify a couple things;

I do not have Half-Orc or Half-Elf available.

I realize I would do much better as a fleshy. However, levelling with a splash in any caster, whether it be divine or arcane, is very painful to me. I hate getting spells a level later. As a Warforged with LoB enhancements, I won't have to worry about that which is another major reason for choosing the race.

Warforged is very much a flavor choice. I should still be viable at endgame and while leveling. Optimal? Of course not. But I rarely play builds that are optimized for endgame content. I'm rather set on this race, and I'm certain I can make it work.

Now that I've cleared things up, time for responding to feedback.

A few people have suggested taking Smiting enhancements. I'm not planning on doing offensive casting, so what's the purpose?

I completely forgot about Quicken. I'll take that at 15 and push Power Attack to 18.

Dropping Inscribed Armor and some other less useful enhancements for Wand and Scroll Mastery II (or III). Completely went over my head that Inscribed Armor is for Arcanes. Whoops.

As long as you realize the costs and plan to play to the advantages of the race, then you'll be fine. It's not "great" but in this game, even "okay" is playable in Epics.

[butcheredspirit]

I realize I would do much better as a fleshy. However, levelling with a splash in any caster, whether it be divine or arcane, is very painful to me. I hate getting spells a level later. As a Warforged with LoB enhancements, I won't have to worry about that which is another major reason for choosing the race.


I can appreciate if you want to play WF.
I hate to state the obvious but...WF is one feat behind a human.
You can use this human bonus feat for Greatsword proficiency, without taking a hit to your healing amp, aura and stats.

Also are you intending to dump wisdom?
If so maybe you could fit in the charisma for Divine Might.

[FranOhmsford]

Is it as bad as a Horc Wiz, though? :D

I have an H-Orc Wiz thank you very much:

http://ddocrafting.info/index.php?server=cannith&charName=Ealdred&lookup=Lookup!&p=myddo

He's currently at that annoying stage before Wraithform so I've just reset his enhancements back to AM - Lots more SPs.

tbh I'm pretty bad when it comes to Arcanes - getting them to Lvl 10 isn't an issue BUT every level after that becomes more and more irritating to me.
I have a 14/3 Wiz/Rogue {Elf}, a 16 AM on Sarlona {Human} and a Lvl 9 Wizard {Halfling} + an Elf Sorc {7} and an Elf PM {7}. Oh and a Human PM over on Thelanis {8}

Cleric to a Warforged however is a lot lot worse than Wiz to an H-Orc.

Not saying Warforged Cleric is a bad idea - I have a Warforged Spellsinger myself after all - Just that of all the races WF are definitively at the bottom of the list when it comes to Clerics.
FavSouls are a different story entirely of course.

[Zachski]

I was more or less joking.

A H-Orc wiz may not bring anything to the table for wizards (whereas a Warforged does bring immunities, which balances out the healing penalty), but they're still great. After all, they're frigging wizards.

[FranOhmsford]

I was more or less joking.

A H-Orc wiz may not bring anything to the table for wizards (whereas a Warforged does bring immunities, which balances out the healing penalty), but they're still great. After all, they're frigging wizards.

Here's me self-censoring B@st@rd every time I want to talk about a certain sword yet f.......g gets through?

Amazing!

BTW I self censor for my own benefit.

[axel15810]

A few people have suggested taking Smiting enhancements. I'm not planning on doing offensive casting, so what's the purpose?



Divine Punishment is your main boss weapon...not melee. Without it you can't hurt bosses effectively...you definitely want to enhance it...well worth it. There's no save so DCs don't matter.

And you will still be able to cast an awesome blade barrier if you take empower AND maximize. You'll definitely definitely want to use BB to contribute to CC...just not the other DC spells like implosion, destruction, greater command, ect.
.

[DarkForte]

Extend hasn't been working on BB for quite some time now.

[axel15810]

Extend hasn't been working on BB for quite some time now.

typo...meant to type empower I fixed it.

[Zachski]

Here's me self-censoring B@st@rd every time I want to talk about a certain sword yet f.......g gets through?

Amazing!

BTW I self censor for my own benefit.

Ah...

Sorry if I offended. About the Horc Wizard thing, not the swearing thing.

[FranOhmsford]

Ah...

Sorry if I offended. About the Horc Wizard thing, not the swearing thing.

lol

[Zachski]

lol

??? :-/

[voxson5]

What a fun stealth build it could be, pure cleric, and what the? Great sword!? Huge STR CON and CHA?? More hp than my Kensai?!

I've already started planning Souldout's cleric life with a similar template. Can't wait for all the crazy looks :D

[JnBs]

I actually play a similar WF cleric build.
I Kept STR at 14 and placed the extra points in INT for some extra skills (UMD/Balance/...). If I get around to a TR i'd place more in WIS to get it back to 16. All level-ups in WIS as well.
I'm currently at 1650ish SP, while only using a Wiz 3 item (Torc) for SP. For normal questing that is usually more then enough, but you won't be solo healing raids.

I find my melee damage slightly lacking, but that is mostly because I'm far from geared out. To-hit bonus is around 30, depending on buffs. I find PA useful, but it's turned off a lot as well.
No issues healing parties or myself - one tier of healer's friend and a heal tends to do the trick.

Divine Punishment is a great compliment to damage bosses, use maximize for sure, empower if you can fit it in, and make sure to take some smiting enhancements. It sounds silly but it really is worth it, even just for the one spell.


For the record: I stayed pure cleric because of the SP/SR, cleric capstone, and flavor.
You also get less silly questions when joining groups then if you use a split build.

Overall it's probably not the best possible build, but I like it a lot. As long as you're not trying to min/max every detail of your toon and you know what the advantages and problems are, you shouldn't have any issues.

[Lalangamena]

pros: WF immunities, Great sword usage with no feat, cleric cap stone (situational).

cons: self healing penalty, low wisdom and charisma which are the main cleric stats.


if you going melee cleric, then spell penetration and spell DC don't play any role.

battle cleric Dwarf 19/1 vs Human 19/1 vs WF 20

pro-dwarf:
coolness factor, the longer the beard the better
good enhancements for cleric
great axe and dwarven axe instead of GS
don't have penalties on wisdom.

con dwarf:
terror dont come in axe shape.

pro-human:
extra feat ( can take shield mastery for the 20% damage reduction on tower shields)
human adaptability (can raise str or con stat higher than others)
don't have penalties for wisdom nor charisma ( divine might!!!)
extra skill point

con human:
plain and boring


pro-warforged:
immunities= save item slots for water breathing and poison resistance.
don't have to split to get greatsword, have capstone.


con warforged:
can have less stats than others due to investing many points to raise charisma and wisdom from 6...
healing penalty

***********
that why on overall, if you want to go melee cleric, you will rather go dwarf/human and not warforged.
FVS go warforged for the amazingly good capstone and admantite body 15 DR/admantite, if it wouldnt stack people wouldnt play WF FVS.