Epic Items LOSE base effects???

[Meat-Head]

Hello DDO Brethren and Sistren,


I'm just getting to the point where I'm making epic stuff at a moderate pace. But in the process, I'm looking at things I hadn't before. In the last couple of days, I've noticed two epic items that LOSE decent effects that the NON-epic version had.

What????

Example 1:

Sacred Band: Base item has "Lesser Turning" that grants 2 extra turn deads for clerics/Pallys. This is helpful for a Rad Servant. Epic version doesn't have ANY increase to turns. ***? Instead it's replaced with "sacred". Cool... except "sacred" is a ML 3-5 effect on lootgen stuff whereas "Lesser Turning" can't be found on lootgen. Does anyone have this epic item? Does it include the increase to turns and it just isn't listed?

Example 2:

Souleater: To be fair, the description is unclear to me. Maybe this one is ok. But the base item has basically a Slay Living on vorpal. The Epic doesn't. Unless "Trap the Soul" includes that effect. Maybe it does. If so, cool. If not, ***?


Are there other Epics that actually lose something kewl when "epicified"?

Maybe I'm missing something. I do that a lot. But, this seems like it have some serious lameness potential.

[Demaril]

trap the soul is a death effect which if im not mistaken can bypass deathblock or ward or both i dunno which :P

[Gkar]

Souleater: To be fair, the description is unclear to me. Maybe this one is ok. But the base item has basically a Slay Living on vorpal. The Epic doesn't. Unless "Trap the Soul" includes that effect. Maybe it does. If so, cool. If not, ***

Trap the Soul is a more dangerous insta-kill

[Zeruell]

In the case of the Soul Eater:

trap the soul is a death effect which if im not mistaken can bypass deathblock or ward or both i dunno which :P
it is actually not a death effect, which is why it bypasses those protections. It also targets the Will save, with a much higher DC. A full on upgrade to Slay Living.

With the Sacred Band...I'm not sure. I'd speculate that the expectation was that, by the time a player hits level 20, they'd have other sources of Lesser Turning. Still a puzzling reason to actually replace it with Sacred, as opposed to simply adding the latter on top of it.

[Meat-Head]

I shoulda done this first.. After some forum searching I see these things:

1. Sacred Band Epic SUCKS. It's as bad as I thought. Others have noted this.

2. Epic Souleater does indeed have it's instakill effect wrapped into Trap The SOul. I'm dumb, so I didn't fully understand what TTS did. However, many have noted the proc rate and save/HD limit is kinda lame.

[Zeruell]

2. Epic Souleater does indeed have it's instakill effect wrapped into Trap The SOul. I'm dumb, so I didn't fully understand what TTS did. However, many have noted the proc rate and save/HD limit is kinda lame.

The proc rate is sort of low, but, unless something changed recently, the equipment-based effect is not restricted by the target's hit dice.

[Vellrad]

The only red fens epics which not sucks for any caster is talisman.

[Impaqt]

I shoulda done this first.. After some forum searching I see these things:

1. Sacred Band Epic SUCKS. It's as bad as I thought. Others have noted this.

2. Epic Souleater does indeed have it's instakill effect wrapped into Trap The SOul. I'm dumb, so I didn't fully understand what TTS did. However, many have noted the proc rate and save/HD limit is kinda lame.

there are surprisingly few mobs that have more than 30 hd

[Vellrad]

there are surprisingly few mobs that have more than 30 hd

Outside of epic quest, perhaps, but inside its really hard to find anyting bellow 30HD.

[Astars]

Trap the soul even works on undead. I always use the souleater on the skellies in LoD epic...got a nice collection of strong undead essences.
TTS of epic souleater even works on the sahuagin on epic, thus the only source of stron monterous humanoid essences needed for greater bane crafting (at least my mage wasn't able to generate any half a year ago, but the souleater did)

Cheers

Ast

[PopeJual]

there are surprisingly few mobs that have more than 30 hd

Yet.

[HAL]

I'd speculate that the expectation was that, by the time a player hits level 20, they'd have other sources of Lesser Turning.

What other items have Lesser Turning?

[Zeruell]

What other items have Lesser Turning?

At the time I was thinking of the Amrath cleric sets, but those are just that: set bonuses.

The real answer is: not many, and certainly nothing that anyone is going to hold onto when they're capped (unless they plan on keeping the Token of the Faithful as a swap-in for extra turns, assuming the action boost bug really has been nixed).

[Enoach]

What other items have Lesser Turning?

Sacred Band (ring) ML 7<- The Claw of Vulkoor, End reward
Dalorent's Seal (Shield) ML 8 <- Necropolis, Turn in Eerie Scarab Powder to Squire Rale
Token of the Faithful (trinket) ML 9 <- And the Dead Shall Rise..., End Chest
Signal of the Silver Flame (trinket) ML 9 <- Necropolis, Turn in Scarlet Scarab Powder

The big change that came recently was that now you can equip/un-equip these items without losing 2 turns, just 2 from your Maximum Turns.

The two Necropolis turn in's and the Sacred Band are more consistent to get upon completion.

But as you can see three possible locations Finger, off-hand and Trinket slot.

DoS Paladin can use these Extra Turns to power their mass, Shield of Faith and mass, Protection from Evil before switching to another item. Cleric's that utilize turns can gain by using these extra turns and switching out. They only gain from the extra turns during a quest at each rest or if there is a reason to stand still for a period of 2+ minutes thus recharging them. Otherwise it is good practice to switch to a different item that would grant enhancements to other abilities.

[Zyerz]

What other items have Lesser Turning?

Dalorent's Seal, Min lv 8. Pretty handy. I only have a lv 10 cleric Radiant servant, so thats the only item I know of.

[Malshier]

there are surprisingly few mobs that have more than 30 hd

Except every elemental I've come across in content where I actually have TTS.

[HAL]

Sacred Band (ring) ML 7<- The Claw of Vulkoor, End reward
Dalorent's Seal (Shield) ML 8 <- Necropolis, Turn in Eerie Scarab Powder to Squire Rale
Token of the Faithful (trinket) ML 9 <- And the Dead Shall Rise..., End Chest
Signal of the Silver Flame (trinket) ML 9 <- Necropolis, Turn in Scarlet Scarab Powder

The big change that came recently was that now you can equip/un-equip these items without losing 2 turns, just 2 from your Maximum Turns.

The two Necropolis turn in's and the Sacred Band are more consistent to get upon completion.

But as you can see three possible locations Finger, off-hand and Trinket slot.

DoS Paladin can use these Extra Turns to power their mass, Shield of Faith and mass, Protection from Evil before switching to another item. Cleric's that utilize turns can gain by using these extra turns and switching out. They only gain from the extra turns during a quest at each rest or if there is a reason to stand still for a period of 2+ minutes thus recharging them. Otherwise it is good practice to switch to a different item that would grant enhancements to other abilities.

Great - thanks.