Drow Pantheon

[Remmic]

Will Drow Cleric's who meet the requirments I.E.: Be Female, in the case of Lolth, recieve their spells if they are from Eberron?. What happens to male drow clerics from Eberron? Will other Drow Gods give them their spells?
Part of the Flavor of the Underdark is the Culture of the Drow. How is that going to be handled ingame? Where Females Dominate and males are submissive.

[Khatzhas]

Player character Drow are from Eberron, and thus will follow Eberron deities (Silver Flame, Sovereign Host, Vulkoor, or no specific.)
I doubt that there will be tenet options for a Llolth faith or enforced adoption of the culture they will be fighting against.

[xSeverinax]

Seeing as we are going there to kill the Underdark drow, and smash up their homes, pillage their loot and wreck their deities best laid plans, I hardly think that Eberron drow will suddenly find themselves getting converted to evil Lolth followers.

[Ravoc-DDO]

*Puts on Spider Cult mask*

I are ebil dominatrixxx! Knjeeehl befoar meeh..! RAAWRRRR !

[Esserbe]

It's a matriarchical society, not a dominatrix society.

And all Drow player characters in DDO are from Eberron.

[MrkGrismer]

Seeing as we are going there to kill the Underdark drow, and smash up their homes, pillage their loot and wreck their deities best laid plans, I hardly think that Eberron drow will suddenly find themselves getting converted to evil Lolth followers.

... and smash their urns, you forgot smashing their urns!

Now, if only we could sit in their chairs as well! Now that would be an expansion worthy of...

[SableShadow]

Seeing as we are going there to kill the Underdark drow, and smash up their homes, pillage their loot and wreck their deities best laid plans, I hardly think that Eberron drow will suddenly find themselves getting converted to evil Lolth followers.

No matter how good the dental, the whole retirement plan - "I'll convert you to a spider-taur as a sign of my favor!" - just lacks a certain something something.

[Citzen_Gkar]

No matter how good the dental, the whole retirement plan - "I'll convert you to a spider-taur as a sign of my favor!" - just lacks a certain something something.

I thought that was a sign she was displeased with them?

[SableShadow]

I thought that was a sign she was displeased with them?

I lose track of the variations, and am probably mixing my scorrow with my driders. :P
Though I grant you, that's how it read when we were playing Q1.
Still, "retirement plan".

[Jaid314]

I thought that was a sign she was displeased with them?

it was. now apparently it's a sign of favour. go figure.

[PookaWitch]

I thought that was a sign she was displeased with them?

Outside of DDO, yeah. I usually remember 2nd ed systems for this, but it was around 6th level I believe that drow had to go through a 'test' for Lolth, and if they failed (by either not being good enough, or occationally 'too' good and a threat) they were turned into driders and cast out.

Personally I like the note in DDO that Lolth's attitude towards the driders have changed, somehow I always found it odd that the spider goddess turned those she didn't like into more potent versions of her favourite animal. It was more to test the other drow, give them a tough opponent to face and become stronger, but I like the idea of it being a blessing more then a curse.


It's a matriarchical society, not a dominatrix society.

If you read the canon fiction and old 1rst/2nd ed drow books, it's not really too far off from a dominatrix society. ;)


Although I personally prefer the nude, dancing, happy, surface-dwelling Eilistraeeans. :D

I really hope that we do get options for playing FR drow in the future, especially if we get a chance for bastard sword wielding Eilistraeean drow. :D Most of my DDO characters are drow with the back story that they were from FR and wound up in Eberron through a planar portal (which Forgotten Realms is riddled with).

[Produktion_Malphunktion]

Outside of DDO, yeah. I usually remember 2nd ed systems for this, but it was around 6th level I believe that drow had to go through a 'test' for Lolth, and if they failed (by either not being good enough, or occationally 'too' good and a threat) they were turned into driders and cast out.

Personally I like the note in DDO that Lolth's attitude towards the driders have changed, somehow I always found it odd that the spider goddess turned those she didn't like into more potent versions of her favourite animal. It was more to test the other drow, give them a tough opponent to face and become stronger, but I like the idea of it being a blessing more then a curse.



If you read the canon fiction and old 1rst/2nd ed drow books, it's not really too far off from a dominatrix society. ;)


Although I personally prefer the nude, dancing, happy, surface-dwelling Eilistraeeans. :D

I really hope that we do get options for playing FR drow in the future, especially if we get a chance for bastard sword wielding Eilistraeean drow. :D Most of my DDO characters are drow with the back story that they were from FR and wound up in Eberron through a planar portal (which Forgotten Realms is riddled with).

Driders are not a punishment anymore.
Driders are drow who have been blessed by the Spider Queen and given a spider like form. Driders are often the greatest priestesses of the drow clergy, and are the strongest and bravest of the drow race.

[SableShadow]

Driders are often the greatest priestesses of the drow clergy, and are the strongest and bravest of the drow race.

I hope they get a boot allowance tossed in with the promotion. Just sayin'.

[MrkGrismer]

I hope they get a boot allowance tossed in with the promotion. Just sayin'.


Oooh, extra boot slots, they can slot feather falling, balance, dex AND +30% striding!

[SableShadow]

Oooh, extra boot slots, they can slot feather falling, balance, dex AND +30% striding!

Fail!
They'd slot 4 pair of Madstones!

[PookaWitch]

Driders are not a punishment anymore.
Driders are drow who have been blessed by the Spider Queen and given a spider like form. Driders are often the greatest priestesses of the drow clergy, and are the strongest and bravest of the drow race.


Oooo, is that in 4th ed? I've never played 4th. I do like that much better then the old 'sign of her disfavour' thing, it seems to make more sense.

[TreknaQudane]

Oooo, is that in 4th ed? I've never played 4th. I do like that much better then the old 'sign of her disfavour' thing, it seems to make more sense.

It also fits with the entire Scorrow thing.

I still want to see an avatar of vulkoor vs an avatar of lolth. :p

[fco-karatekid]

It also fits with the entire Scorrow thing.

I still want to see an avatar of vulkoor vs an avatar of lolth. :p

You watch - end of chain raid battle will wind up you vs. the two of them, both must be killed within 10 secs of each other or full reset, and they will each have like 40 MM HP.

[Cernunan]

Keep in mind that the DDO crossover into the Forgotten Realms is keeping with the current timeline of the current campaign setting, which was advanced 100 years into the future of what most people remember from their FR experiences (from the setting and the novels), while this was done for 4th ed, it is still the current FR cannon.

Which means that all the other drow gods and goddesses, including Eilistraee (who was one of my favorite FR deities at the time) were slain a century prior.

That decision was for 4th ed, when it was decided that there were too many deities for the setting,which did not fit in with their vision for the game.

[PookaWitch]

Keep in mind that the DDO crossover into the Forgotten Realms is keeping with the current timeline of the current campaign setting, which was advanced 100 years into the future of what most people remember from their FR experiences (from the setting and the novels), while this was done for 4th ed, it is still the current FR cannon.

Which means that all the other drow gods and goddesses, including Eilistraee (who was one of my favorite FR deities at the time) were slain a century prior.

That decision was for 4th ed, when it was decided that there were too many deities for the setting,which did not fit in with their vision for the game.

But they said that they're not sticking with exact FR canon, right? I can always hope for Eilistraee. ^_^ *crosses fingers* (Many Eilistraee fans just ignore her death in their home games, my home games included.)
You're talking to a girl here with a 12 inch tall Eilistraee holy symbol tattoo in between her shoulder blades. ;)

[TreknaQudane]

But they said that they're not sticking with exact FR canon, right? I can always hope for Eilistraee. ^_^ *crosses fingers* (Many Eilistraee fans just ignore her death in their home games, my home games included.)
You're talking to a girl here with a 12 inch tall Eilistraee holy symbol tattoo in between her shoulder blades. ;)

IIRC, she's dead and those Drow that followed her were turned into Dark Elves (dark skin, black hair) as opposed to Drow (blackish skin, white hair).

[Esserbe]

Oooo, is that in 4th ed? I've never played 4th. I do like that much better then the old 'sign of her disfavour' thing, it seems to make more sense.

I believe it's actually a 3.5 and 4th edition thing - went from punishment to "eh" to blessing from AD&D 2E, 3.5 and 4E.

[Khatzhas]

I really hope that we do get options for playing FR drow in the future, especially if we get a chance for bastard sword wielding Eilistraeean drow. :D Most of my DDO characters are drow with the back story that they were from FR and wound up in Eberron through a planar portal (which Forgotten Realms is riddled with).
There is nothing stopping you from pretending that your Drow is from the Realms Underdark, as opposed to Eberron Xendrick. (And you will likely freak out the people you associate with pre-transition, and be freaked out in turn given the vastly different origins of Drow in the two worlds.) Its unlikely that there will be Tenets of Faith abilities for them though, given its a Realms god and a dead one at that.

Sovereign Host is probably the closest faith if you need to take tenets for the purposes of prerequisites. Its pretty generic. Silver Flame is possibly a little too militant and focused on protecting others, and Vulkoor is too characteristically Eberron.
What was Eilistrae like as a god? In terms of tenets and beliefs.

[sdrocky]

But they said that they're not sticking with exact FR canon, right? I can always hope for Eilistraee. ^_^ *crosses fingers* (Many Eilistraee fans just ignore her death in their home games, my home games included.)
You're talking to a girl here with a 12 inch tall Eilistraee holy symbol tattoo in between her shoulder blades. ;)

I think I'm in love.

[Ebondevil]

Outside of DDO, yeah. I usually remember 2nd ed systems for this, but it was around 6th level I believe that drow had to go through a 'test' for Lolth, and if they failed (by either not being good enough, or occationally 'too' good and a threat) they were turned into driders and cast out.

Personally I like the note in DDO that Lolth's attitude towards the driders have changed, somehow I always found it odd that the spider goddess turned those she didn't like into more potent versions of her favourite animal. It was more to test the other drow, give them a tough opponent to face and become stronger, but I like the idea of it being a blessing more then a curse.


Driders are not a punishment anymore.
Driders are drow who have been blessed by the Spider Queen and given a spider like form. Driders are often the greatest priestesses of the drow clergy, and are the strongest and bravest of the drow race.


Araushnee's banishment also involved Corellon turning her into a bloated spider demon so that he could not be persuaded to reconsider his decision due to her beauty. Link (http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Lolth)

Basically Lloth was turned into a Drider by Corellon as a punishment for attempting to overthrow the Seldarine, and that punishment was used by Drow priestesses in turn against their and Lloth's enemies, thus Driders were outcast, though I agree it makes more sense for it to be a blessing rather than a punishment.

The only issue is, that it was a long standing punishment, so why did it change and what's happened to all the former Driders that became Driders as a punishment. I can't really see the Punished version of the Driders being accepted back, nor trusted, nor particularly appreciative of the enforced change.

Personally I did kind of like the discrepancy between Toril and Eberron, where Drider was a punishment and Scorrow was a reward. Gave the Eberron Drow an advantage over the Toril Drow.

Does make me wonder if Players of Drow are ever going to get to be Driders or Scorrow though?

[quijenoth]

Does make me wonder if Players of Drow are ever going to get to be Driders or Scorrow though?

Personally, considering how weak and useless the scorrow summoned with Vulkoor's Avatar is, perhaps its time to change it.
With the new shape changing rules It would be nice if Clerics, Favored Souls, and Paladins could actually turn into Scorrow.

[PookaWitch]

IIRC, she's dead and those Drow that followed her were turned into Dark Elves (dark skin, black hair) as opposed to Drow (blackish skin, white hair).

Yeah, I sadly know. I've been following everything Eilistraee ever since she was first released in Dragon Magazine ages ago. I was there along with many other fans being rather upset that they not only killed off a really popular goddess, but did so in a way that just seemed rather ridiculous with way too many plot holes. (Which is a reason that many fans hope they'll bring her back. I mean, it's not as if dead gods haven't returned in Toril before, right?)

I like to go with the old Planescape idea that if a god existed in numerous planes and only one planar version was killed, they still could live on. (ie. Tyr was killed in Toril as well, but that doesn't mean that the norse god Tyr in Ysgaard died... just his Toril aspect. ^_^ Guess what other god I was fond of. lol )

It was odd when I first read the list of all of the dead powers for 4th ed, it was like a hit list of my favourite FR gods. O.o


I believe it's actually a 3.5 and 4th edition thing - went from punishment to "eh" to blessing from AD&D 2E, 3.5 and 4E.

Probably in later 3.5, I missed out on some of the last official D&D 3.5 books because that's around the time my games store went under and I didn't have as easy access to getting the books any longer. lol


There is nothing stopping you from pretending that your Drow is from the Realms Underdark, as opposed to Eberron Xendrick. (And you will likely freak out the people you associate with pre-transition, and be freaked out in turn given the vastly different origins of Drow in the two worlds.) Its unlikely that there will be Tenets of Faith abilities for them though, given its a Realms god and a dead one at that.

Sovereign Host is probably the closest faith if you need to take tenets for the purposes of prerequisites. Its pretty generic. Silver Flame is possibly a little too militant and focused on protecting others, and Vulkoor is too characteristically Eberron.
What was Eilistrae like as a god? In terms of tenets and beliefs.

Already have been, in spades. :D I tend to like re-making my tabletop characters in DDO, and since they're planescaping characters my husband and I decided to make it canon for our home RP. :D

Eilistraee is the 'good' drow goddess, the daughter of Lolth (before she was banished) and Corellon Latherian. She never truly rebelled, and when the drow gods all fell she decided to go with them since the few good drow trying to survive in an evil society would need a beacon of hope.
She's a goddess of song, dance, swordwork, hunting (and added in 3rd ed) moonlight and beauty. Her followers usually live on the surface in forests, dancing naked with very long silvery hair and bastard swords. They're known for being exceptionally kind (showing even more gentleness then usual to make sure that they spread the word that not all drow are evil, and that some can live in peace on the surface again), and are a ton of fun to play.

The followers are often chaotic good, very goodly, very giving, but still very sexist. lol



I think I'm in love.
I also used to co-own a games store, and get excited when I get things like special dwarven stone dice for my anniversary. :D One of these days I'll get a d20 tattooed on me as well. ;)

And... Eilistraee Tattoo (http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s34/PookaWitch/Photos/GEDC0030.jpg)



Basically Lloth was turned into a Drider by Corellon as a punishment for attempting to overthrow the Seldarine, and that punishment was used by Drow priestesses in turn against their and Lloth's enemies, thus Driders were outcast, though I agree it makes more sense for it to be a blessing rather than a punishment.

The only issue is, that it was a long standing punishment, so why did it change and what's happened to all the former Driders that became Driders as a punishment. I can't really see the Punished version of the Driders being accepted back, nor trusted, nor particularly appreciative of the enforced change.

Personally I did kind of like the discrepancy between Toril and Eberron, where Drider was a punishment and Scorrow was a reward. Gave the Eberron Drow an advantage over the Toril Drow.

Does make me wonder if Players of Drow are ever going to get to be Driders or Scorrow though?


Ooo, you know, I never thought of it that way, like mimicking Lolth's punishment. That does make a lot more sense.
It really does make me wonder what will happen to the older driders, they may not be accepted, but then again Lolth does make strange and chaotic decrees sometimes and may demand that they're now favoured by her. O.o

It always made me wonder what would happen if Lolth and Vulkoor crossed paths... hopefully we'll find out in DDO. :D

[SableShadow]

And... Eilistraee Tattoo (http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s34/PookaWitch/Photos/GEDC0030.jpg)

That's quite well done. :)


I was there along with many other fans being rather upset that they not only killed off a really popular goddess, but did so in a way that just seemed rather ridiculous with way too many plot holes.

Ignoring silly things done with various IPs is a much practiced art form. ;)




Does make me wonder if Players of Drow are ever going to get to be Driders or Scorrow though?

I just keep coming back to the whole "scorp/spider-taur as reward" thing ... srsly, when does *that* get good? :confused:

"In honor of your accomplishments, we shall lop off a body part." <brandishing sacred axe of honor giving>
"Err, thanks, but I'm fine."
"But ... but ... it's how we honor you!"
"No really, I'm good." <back away slowly>
"..."
"I mean, if you honor me *too* much, then it'll go to my head and I'll get sloppy, so ..." <keep backing away>
"You mean, you refuse this honor for the greater glory of our god?"
"Yep! Yep, that's the one!" <slippin' on the track shoes>
"You truly are worthy! Your form shall be magnificent! Let the ritual commence! ... hey! where are you going!"

[Missing_Minds]

Oooo, is that in 4th ed? I've never played 4th. I do like that much better then the old 'sign of her disfavour' thing, it seems to make more sense.
http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Drow.aspx

Watch the video. *chuckles*

[Missing_Minds]

Yeah, I sadly know. I've been following everything Eilistraee ever since she was first released in Dragon Magazine ages ago. I was there along with many other fans being rather upset that they not only killed off a really popular goddess, but did so in a way that just seemed rather ridiculous with way too many plot holes. (Which is a reason that many fans hope they'll bring her back. I mean, it's not as if dead gods haven't returned in Toril before, right?)

Between Bane and Mondonar(sp) finding their own way back, let alone AO doing revivals... yeap.

But if Eil got brought back, I can see there being quite a chip on her shoulder.

[PookaWitch]

http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Drow.aspx

Watch the video. *chuckles*

OMG, whoo! I haven't bothered to pick up 4th ed (I'm obsessed with Pathfinder myself), but wow, that is a great setting theme going on there. I love the idea of a full drow assault to reclaim the surface.


Between Bane and Mondonar(sp) finding their own way back, let alone AO doing revivals... yeap.

But if Eil got brought back, I can see there being quite a chip on her shoulder.

It's not as if she didn't already have one, she was described as being moody due to her being so upset about the evils of other drow. I guess she will be... moodier?
She had also taken over Vhaeraun's profile before she died, which still makes me wonder what would happen with that.

[Khatzhas]

It always made me wonder what would happen if Lolth and Vulkoor crossed paths... hopefully we'll find out in DDO. :D
Unlikely. Eberron gods are . . . somewhat different in concept to Realms gods.
They are unknowable and never manifest. Even their actual existence is not definite.
Although this only applies to the Sovereign Court (and Dark Six) which are the faiths that have gods in the way we're talking about. You might get otherplanar beings being the avatar of a god, but you'll never see the god themselves.

Most of the other Eberron faiths like Undying court, Lord of Blades, Silver Flame, Blood of Vol etc worship concepts, some of which are manifest in the world, some of which aren't.

[sdrocky]

I also used to co-own a games store, and get excited when I get things like special dwarven stone dice for my anniversary. :D One of these days I'll get a d20 tattooed on me as well. ;)

And... Eilistraee Tattoo (http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s34/PookaWitch/Photos/GEDC0030.jpg)



Nice. thankyou for sharing that. lol.

[Kiel]

I was a big fan of Greenwood,Salvatore,and the Harpers books for a long time and played alot of Forgotten Realms pnp roleplaying(2nd edition).I even collected the 25 issue Forgotten Realms comic book series that came out awile back.After reading some posts i was thinking i needed to update my knowledge of Toril....and geez im kind of sad i did.I thought the time of troubles..was..um..troubling but it seems to be a walk in the park compared to whats happened since.I dont want to give out any spoilers to those who wish to find out for themselves but i do have to ask has ANYTHING good happened in Toril lately?







Ah two-handed sword for those of us less concerned about losing our heads than relieving you of yours.
(arms and equipment guide)

[Entelech]

The "Drider as a punishment for failing exams" thing was from 1st edition. I believe it goes all the way back the the old D1-D3 modules where the Drow first appeared.

That wasn't Forgotten Realms. That was World of Greyhawk.

You can tell because the ultimate Mary Sue, Gandalf ripoff, GM wish-fulfillment NPC was named Mordenkainen, not Elminster. Also, the Forgotten Realms boxed set hadn't been published yet.

The Forgotten Realms Drow and the Greyhawk Drow started off fairly similar to one another, but then the Salvatore novels did a lot to flesh out the Drow of the Forgotten Realms. By the time the Salvatore novels were on the scene, about the only remaining vestige of the Greyhawk setting in print were the baseline deities in the 3.0 / 3.5 Players Handbook. Pelor, Vecna, Wee Jas, Nerull, St Cuthbert. Those guys.

The Forgotten Realms deities are different from the Greyhawk deities which are different from the Eberron deities. And the Forgotten Realms Drow are different from the Greyhawk Drow and the Eberron drow.

It makes the whole subject more confusing than talking about Star Wars canon. My advice is to just relax and go with it.

PS: Ellistrae being mysteriously killed off is far from the stupidest thing ever to happen in Forgotten Realms. I see your dead goddess and raise you the novel "Spellfire".

PPS: Kender are from the Dragonlance setting. Not Eberron, not Forgotten Realms, not Greyhawk. Dragonlance. The universe characterized primarily by copious amounts of bad poetry written by Weis and Hickman. Halflings are not the same thing as kender. If they were even remotely similar, the Last War would have been an alliance of the Five Kingdoms, Droaam, Argonessen, the Undying Court, Mror Holds and Sarlona joining forces to wipe the little scum out. They'd probably wipe out Zilargo too, because they look a little bit like Halflings, and you've got to be sure.

[PookaWitch]

Unlikely. Eberron gods are . . . somewhat different in concept to Realms gods.
They are unknowable and never manifest. Even their actual existence is not definite.
Although this only applies to the Sovereign Court (and Dark Six) which are the faiths that have gods in the way we're talking about. You might get otherplanar beings being the avatar of a god, but you'll never see the god themselves.

Most of the other Eberron faiths like Undying court, Lord of Blades, Silver Flame, Blood of Vol etc worship concepts, some of which are manifest in the world, some of which aren't.

Oh that's wonderfully helpful! 90% of what I've learned about Eberron is from DDO, and due to DDO I skimmed the books a bit. I liked the idea that clerics of a god can be any alignment (same with any god can have a LG paladin), and that dragons are also, usually any alignment. I found the Undying Court concept fascinating


I even collected the 25 issue Forgotten Realms comic book series that came out awile back.After reading some posts i was thinking i needed to update my knowledge of Toril....and geez im kind of sad i did.I thought the time of troubles..was..um..troubling but it seems to be a walk in the park compared to whats happened since.I dont want to give out any spoilers to those who wish to find out for themselves but i do have to ask has ANYTHING good happened in Toril lately?

Ah two-handed sword for those of us less concerned about losing our heads than relieving you of yours.
(arms and equipment guide)

Oooo, I love that series. I have that full comic series too, along with the dungeons & dragons one that was based in Waterdeep. I've tried to get my son to read them a few years ago, now that he's 14 I should try again.

I dunno, the whole 4th ed update for Toril felt kinda like that episode of the Simpsons with Homer being a coach.
*looks over the FR gods list* 'You're cut, and you.. you're cut too. Norse god in Toril... cut. Dwarf battle goddess.. cut. And cut, cut, cut, and let's cut you for good measure. Oh, you didn't like that? You're cut too.' lol
But seriously, the list of dead gods was nearly like a list of mine and my husband's favourite gods and clerics/paladins we've played. O.o (We've had our home campaign going since '92 and have a lot of characters and history.) It really made us want to avoid 4th ed like the 'spell' plague and instead started up a special plot-line of some clerics/devoted worshippers of gods about to die getting visions to try and get the 'Toril only' gods worshipped on other planes quickly to save them. So when they died in Toril they carried on, weaker from less followers, in other planes.



The "Drider as a punishment for failing exams" thing was from 1st edition. I believe it goes all the way back the the old D1-D3 modules where the Drow first appeared.

That wasn't Forgotten Realms. That was World of Greyhawk.

You can tell because the ultimate Mary Sue, Gandalf ripoff, GM wish-fulfillment NPC was named Mordenkainen, not Elminster. Also, the Forgotten Realms boxed set hadn't been published yet.

The Forgotten Realms Drow and the Greyhawk Drow started off fairly similar to one another, but then the Salvatore novels did a lot to flesh out the Drow of the Forgotten Realms. By the time the Salvatore novels were on the scene, about the only remaining vestige of the Greyhawk setting in print were the baseline deities in the 3.0 / 3.5 Players Handbook. Pelor, Vecna, Wee Jas, Nerull, St Cuthbert. Those guys.

The Forgotten Realms deities are different from the Greyhawk deities which are different from the Eberron deities. And the Forgotten Realms Drow are different from the Greyhawk Drow and the Eberron drow.

It makes the whole subject more confusing than talking about Star Wars canon. My advice is to just relax and go with it.

FR did basically stick to how Gygax did the drow though, didn't they? (not 100% sure on this) Wasn't the major differences the history of how the drow were exiled, and how Lolth was now a full goddess and fallen elven god instead of a demon. I knew more about the FR drow then Greyhawk though, so I get them confused a bit sometimes. ^^;
I think that there was something in the 2nd ed Drow book about the test for driders as well. Sadly I joined D&D a few years too late to be part of the awe and surprise when drow were first released in... I think it was Against the Giants. I first gained most of my information about drow from friends quoting Drizzt things to me, then getting my hands on the guide to the drow and reading it over multiple times.



It makes the whole subject more confusing than talking about Star Wars canon. My advice is to just relax and go with it.

PS: Ellistrae being mysteriously killed off is far from the stupidest thing ever to happen in Forgotten Realms. I see your dead goddess and raise you the novel "Spellfire".

XD I always pictured FR as an extreme D&D setting. Funnily Greenwood's style of storytelling and characters remind me a lot of how my husband runs his games. lol But whenever we find something that doesn't always quite work we try to find a way to explain it... much like fans trying to explain things that didn't make sense in Star Wars. ^_^ (Wookiepedia FTW!)

[SableShadow]

It makes the whole subject more confusing than talking about Star Wars canon.


Not just no, but hell no.
SW canon makes every other IP out there look like a model of consistency.
Also, Han shot first.

[Entelech]

FR did basically stick to how Gygax did the drow though, didn't they? (not 100% sure on this) Wasn't the major differences the history of how the drow were exiled, and how Lolth was now a full goddess and fallen elven god instead of a demon. I knew more about the FR drow then Greyhawk though, so I get them confused a bit sometimes. ^^;

I think that there was something in the 2nd ed Drow book about the test for driders as well. Sadly I joined D&D a few years too late to be part of the awe and surprise when drow were first released in... I think it was Against the Giants. I first gained most of my information about drow from friends quoting Drizzt things to me, then getting my hands on the guide to the drow and reading it over multiple times.


(1) Yes, it was the Against the Giants module. The G series, D series, and Q (Queen of the Demonweb Pits) module were intended to be played in order, as a long campaign story arc.


(2) Forgotten Realms and Greyhawk Drow were similar...to a point. Really, they started out fairly poorly defined, with females being the dominant gender and males being second class citizens, and priestesses being in charge. Really, nothing more was described about their society in either of the settings.

Remember, female leadership was a bigger deal at the time than it seems now, since Archie Bunker / All in the Family was the main place where the issue of feminism was being discussed, and most females in fantasy were either slave girls or chainmail bikini pinups from the Conan or Gor novels. Yes, fourteen year old boys were AD&D's target audience.


(3) It was actually quite a bit later, probably most of a decade, when the R.A. Salvatore novels came out. It took the Forgotten Realms Drow and fleshed them out, from a cut-and-paste entry on the wandering monster table into a full-blown fictional society. And Salvatore felt free to ignore anything he did not wish to deal with from the earlier canon. The Drow city in the (Greyhawk based) D-series was called Erelhei-Cinlu (sp?), and Salvatore created the city of Menzoberranzan in the forgotten Realms.

And yes, fourteen year old boys were still AD&D's target audience. Who else would put up with a whiny protagonist with an emo haircut who has trouble talking to girls, serious mommy issues, and spends 6 hours per day complaining about how nobody likes him or understands his true nature?


(4) Since Salvatore's stuff was explicitly Forgotten Realms, that left Greyhawk far behind in defining the Drow. I suspect quite a few people, unclear on the concept of Campaign Settings, pulled stuff from Salvatore's work back into sort-of-Greyhawky home campaigns without realizing they were getting Salvatore's chocolate into Gygax's peanut butter. And it really didn't matter, so long as they tasted great and everybody had fun.


(5) I have no idea what 2nd Edition had to say about the Drow. I pretty much skipped it.

[MrkGrismer]

Who else would put up with a whiny protagonist with an emo haircut who has trouble talking to girls, serious mommy issues, and spends 6 hours per day complaining about how nobody likes him or understands his true nature?

I'm not sure if Elric of Melnebourne was more or less admirable...

[drac317]

i'm not sure if elric of melnebourne was more or less admirable...
yes

[Khatzhas]

Oh that's wonderfully helpful! 90% of what I've learned about Eberron is from DDO, and due to DDO I skimmed the books a bit. I liked the idea that clerics of a god can be any alignment (same with any god can have a LG paladin), and that dragons are also, usually any alignment. I found the Undying Court concept fascinating
If you're after more details about Eberron, the Dragonshards archive is full of information to flesh out the subjects:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archeb/ds

[MrkGrismer]

yes

Ha!