Good Job on Balancing Melees and Arcanes

[arjiwan]

I would like to commend the balancing between melees and arcanes.

I logged and played my Sorc, it is now showing more the "You are not facing" message and the spell fizzles.

It happens before but it is now more and more apparent. The annoying thing is, I am facing the mob for a full 1-3 seconds before firing the spell.

Saddest part is, people are busy with the Expansion and new shinnies.


Woop doo bee dooo!

[Aurora1979]

I also like the "out of range" message that pops up.

Often when I'm looking at the floor 2 foot in front of me.

[DDOisFree]

I dont agree that turbine have done a good job on balancing Melees and Arcanes.

Melees are far too strong in DDO, and Arcanes far too weak in comparison.

To make the game better, Turbine need to nerf all melee classes by about 50%, and buff Wizards and Sorcerers by about 75%.

Bards are powerful enough at the moment, just the right amount of balance, better at melee, better and ranged, and much better at Arcane damage than any other class.

Also FVSs are the outright weakest class in the game, they should just be completely removed altogether, so useless.

[VorpalKnight]

I dont agree that turbine have done a good job on balancing Melees and Arcanes.

Melees are far too strong in DDO, and Arcanes far too weak in comparison.

To make the game better, Turbine need to nerf all melee classes by about 50%, and buff Wizards and Sorcerers by about 75%.

Bards are powerful enough at the moment, just the right amount of balance, better at melee, better and ranged, and much better at Arcane damage than any other class.

Also FVSs are the outright weakest class in the game, they should just be completely removed altogether, so useless.

.yadot yad etisoppo si ti fi sa ti taert ll'I , thgirla sti tub ,gat msacras ruoy togrof uoY

[fco-karatekid]

I would like to commend the balancing between melees and arcanes.

I logged and played my Sorc, it is now showing more the "You are not facing" message and the spell fizzles.

It happens before but it is now more and more apparent. The annoying thing is, I am facing the mob for a full 1-3 seconds before firing the spell.

Saddest part is, people are busy with the Expansion and new shinnies.


Woop doo bee dooo!

While I understand that's frustrating for casters, I want to take a moment and also mention Animal Empathy needs a re-visit. The range is bad enough, but I can be directly facing an animal the entire time and the game still says "not facing".

Range can be kept, but Devs look at the FOV coding for this - it feels like it's about a 15 degree arc in front of the character... that would be fine, but the game (sync) appears to cause the "facing" error to trigger too much due to latency.

That is - because the time between "facing" check and receipt on the other end is too high; by the time the server has a decision to make on "facing" or "not facing"; the animal has moved, but the server is at that time unaware I have rotated the character to keep the animal in FOV. This is during normal latency periods (~60 - 65 ms on avg), NOT just when I get spikes etc. Vale's a good place to test this.

[Asirin]

I dont agree that turbine have done a good job on balancing Melees and Arcanes.

Melees are far too strong in DDO, and Arcanes far too weak in comparison.

To make the game better, Turbine need to nerf all melee classes by about 50%, and buff Wizards and Sorcerers by about 75%.

Bards are powerful enough at the moment, just the right amount of balance, better at melee, better and ranged, and much better at Arcane damage than any other class.

Also FVSs are the outright weakest class in the game, they should just be completely removed altogether, so useless.
Laughed so hard I peed a little.

I do get the feeling however that all that work I put into my casters soon to be for naught.
Some people have the agenda that casters should be seen and not heard.
Soon as that comes to place my 6 year stint in this game will abruptly end.

[goodspeed]

While I understand that's frustrating for casters, I want to take a moment and also mention Animal Empathy needs a re-visit. The range is bad enough, but I can be directly facing an animal the entire time and the game still says "not facing".

Range can be kept, but Devs look at the FOV coding for this - it feels like it's about a 15 degree arc in front of the character... that would be fine, but the game (sync) appears to cause the "facing" error to trigger too much due to latency.

That is - because the time between "facing" check and receipt on the other end is too high; by the time the server has a decision to make on "facing" or "not facing"; the animal has moved, but the server is at that time unaware I have rotated the character to keep the animal in FOV. This is during normal latency periods (~60 - 65 ms on avg), NOT just when I get spikes etc. Vale's a good place to test this.

No one cares about rangers anymore. I would think the nerf to animation and manyshot proved that some time ago. It's all about the barb now.

bARb: HEAL MEH!!!!!!
BaRb: HAGE MEH!!
bArb: Why ain no one bufn meh? Your buffing that fighter!!
Fighter: er actually im just whipping heal scrolls and gs clickies on myself.
DING.
Fighter: Don't worry my chubby raged buddy. You just ride in big daddy's pack for awhile. I'll zerg ahead and get us to that shrine!

[Zyerz]

I dont agree that turbine have done a good job on balancing Melees and Arcanes.

Melees are far too strong in DDO, and Arcanes far too weak in comparison.

To make the game better, Turbine need to nerf all melee classes by about 50%, and buff Wizards and Sorcerers by about 75%.

Bards are powerful enough at the moment, just the right amount of balance, better at melee, better and ranged, and much better at Arcane damage than any other class.

Also FVSs are the outright weakest class in the game, they should just be completely removed altogether, so useless.


Lol. +1

[DDOisFree]

One other problem I recently had on my weak wizard was in ToD. We were at the end fight and all the overpowered melees were fighting the first boss that spawns. I targetted the boss and put down a coudkill for concealment to help out the uber powerful melees even more.

Then when I anticipated that trash was about to spawn, I turned away from the boss, faced the entirely opposite direction, pointed to the floor in front of me and clicked on Symbol of Stunning.

For some reason my symbol also got cast on the boss, a split second before all the orthons spawned and so they didnt get CCed.

Thank you so blooming much turbine for making my Wizard so useless in DDO, BUFF ME!!!!1111oneoneone.

[FrancisP.Fancypants]

I would like to commend the balancing between melees and arcanes.

I logged and played my Sorc, it is now showing more the "You are not facing" message and the spell fizzles.

It happens before but it is now more and more apparent. The annoying thing is, I am facing the mob for a full 1-3 seconds before firing the spell.

Saddest part is, people are busy with the Expansion and new shinnies.


Woop doo bee dooo!

I'd put money on the new physics engine being the issue. I have the same problems with spell targeting, and ranged, well...

My arti is now a scroll healer with a runearm.

[Starla70]

Most interesting. I love the barb bit, so true. Seen it many times. I have tried to heal a person almost right next to me and gotten the out of range error message. What? How close do I need to be? I think things are pretty balanced as far as the different classes go. I think the gear is making more of the wide spread difference. WE have a rather tight budget, I just do not have the funds to buy all that is needed to grind out or buy at auction house all the stuff I need for crafting, or making green steel items. It also takes many hours of play to get it all. That is a precious thing sometimes. So I get by on what I can scrounge or nice people in my groups hand me they don't want in the shroud.

[Cyr]

I'd put money on the new physics engine being the issue. I have the same problems with spell targeting, and ranged, well...

My arti is now a scroll healer with a runearm.

What are are you talking about?

The new physics engine is working perfectly. Dying in midair from falling damage, getting pushed into walls, and falling through solid floors are all working as intended.

[Aurora1979]

One other problem I recently had on my weak wizard was in ToD. We were at the end fight and all the overpowered melees were fighting the first boss that spawns. I targetted the boss and put down a coudkill for concealment to help out the uber powerful melees even more.

Then when I anticipated that trash was about to spawn, I turned away from the boss, faced the entirely opposite direction, pointed to the floor in front of me and clicked on Symbol of Stunning.

For some reason my symbol also got cast on the boss, a split second before all the orthons spawned and so they didnt get CCed.

Thank you so blooming much turbine for making my Wizard so useless in DDO, BUFF ME!!!!1111oneoneone.

Your sarcasm would be funny if you hadn't totally missed the OP's point :)

He was also being sarcastic saying that the devs have found the only way to nerf casters is to make messages come up saying we cant cast a spell when we should be able too.

The "out of range" and "you are not facing your opponent" bug when you are clearly complying to both is a PITA.

Yes we all know melees need buffing (yawn) we all know that casters, arcanes, are powerful.

Its amusing you can miss sarcasm and use it in the same post :)

[DDOisFree]

Your sarcasm would be funny if you hadn't totally missed the OP's point :)

He was also being sarcastic saying that the devs have found the only way to nerf casters is to make messages come up saying we cant cast a spell when we should be able too.

The "out of range" and "you are not facing your opponent" bug when you are clearly complying to both is a PITA.

Yes we all know melees need buffing (yawn) we all know that casters, arcanes, are powerful.

Its amusing you can miss sarcasm and use it in the same post :)

Huh? I didnt miss the point of the OP, I'm posting in the same manner.

Maybe you missed the point that the point of my posts was to further highlight the point of the OPs ... point.

[Raithe]

I'd put money on the new physics engine being the issue. I have the same problems with spell targeting, and ranged, well...

My arti is now a scroll healer with a runearm.

DDO has had targetting quirks since day one minus 10. I see very little differences with the "new" physics engine (most likely just mildly upgraded).

This thread reminds me of the frequent complaints some time ago about not being able to swing at moving mob's backs and hit. They "fixed" it, but all you had to do was swing ahead of the moving mob and you could hit just fine - just like you would most likely have to do if you were swinging at a real moving target.

Or, if you weren't hasted enough, you could always play better by pulling out a ranged weapon of some type to help a kiting teammate.

Part of playing a game well is dealing with the quirks (while not necessarily exploiting them). If you are casting spells, it is more often better to de-target and aim at the ground. I would suggest getting used to doing just that, if you want to improve your spellcasting game.

For even more gameplay improvement, I would suggest to the silly crowd of this thread that sustainable damage to a nearby target is hardly the most important consideration for assessing the power of classes. There are other aspects to this game other than damage and healing - like stealth, mobility (ddoor and haste/jump), utility (locks, skill checks) and strategy in general.

[Aurora1979]

If you are casting spells, it is more often better to de-target and aim at the ground. I would suggest getting used to doing just that, if you want to improve your spellcasting game.



As I have already said, this will often bring up the "out of range" message. even when its clearly not out of range its about a foot and a half in front of me.

Also, sorry to disagree but I dont think "learn how to play around the bugs" is a very constructive point. We report the bugs and would like them to be fixed. I know this is a low priority and thats fine but, "play around the issue" isn't the solution.

[Raithe]

Also, sorry to disagree but I dont think "learn how to play around the bugs" is a very constructive point.

Ya, I didn't call them bugs for a reason. Programs have behavior. Whether that behavior suits you is a matter of preference. I generally reserve the word "bug" to describe program behavior that prevents the functioning of what I want the program to do.

Geometry that causes the "out of range" message you are talking about could most likely be considered a bug (by my definition). I don't find those messages to be overly common. Facing messages I would not consider a bug, they are simply behavior that needs compensation. They are never going to iron out all the wrinkles that are caused by latency across network connections (making the client and server out-of-sync). You have to remember that in typical FPS architectures, the game was peer-to-peer, and everyone had a copy of a nearly-identical game instance running on their own computer. Latency just didn't have the same impact.

In DDO, the game is all on the server. Your client is just providing an interface. That mob you think is right in front of you may not actually be right in front of you.

Like I said, part of playing a game well is dealing with the quirks. There isn't a whole lot more to learning to play a spellcaster well, other than that.

[Aurora1979]

Ya, I didn't call them bugs for a reason. Programs have behavior. Whether that behavior suits you is a matter of preference. I generally reserve the word "bug" to describe program behavior that prevents the functioning of what I want the program to do.

Geometry that causes the "out of range" message you are talking about could most likely be considered a bug (by my definition). I don't find those messages to be overly common. Facing messages I would not consider a bug, they are simply behavior that needs compensation. They are never going to iron out all the wrinkles that are caused by latency across network connections (making the client and server out-of-sync). You have to remember that in typical FPS architectures, the game was peer-to-peer, and everyone had a copy of a nearly-identical game instance running on their own computer. Latency just didn't have the same impact.

In DDO, the game is all on the server. Your client is just providing an interface. That mob you think is right in front of you may not actually be right in front of you.

Like I said, part of playing a game well is dealing with the quirks. There isn't a whole lot more to learning to play a spellcaster well, other than that.

Fair enough, I get what you mean about latency etc.

I wont debate this thread anymore, not because I don't think its a problem but because i dont really think its THAt much of a problem.

When it happens to me I usually tut move and cast again. I'm starting to debate it a bit much and sounding obsessive :)

[...v...]

I'd put money on the new physics engine being the issue. I have the same problems with spell targeting, and ranged, well...

My arti is now a scroll healer with a runearm.

There is no new physics engine, the old engine had an update and the boobs at turbine messed it up.

[jellyfish21]

Facing and distance is easiest overcome by experience. There seems to be no other way around it. Most spells actually conjure (not the spell school) an effect to be placed inside the terrain, a terrain defined on the server side. Ice Storm, Break Enchantment, ray attacks and others all must be placed in the existing terrain. Your lag affects this. Lower your graphics. Understand the ideas around hundreds of calculation during large fights. Try to use single target spells as a tool for experience (inflict spells have a range of about five feet). The game designers know about this issue. There must be priorities for them: new content and a better engine are higher priorities.

[hecate355]

What are are you talking about?

The new physics engine is working perfectly. Dying in midair from falling damage, getting pushed into walls, and falling through solid floors are all working as intended.

In reavers i got kicked up to ceiling once, but fell down twice! Now thats some wicked physics... :D

[arjiwan]

The balancing part between melee and arcane is just sarcasm.


But honestly, it is really frustrating.

[fco-karatekid]

I'd put money on the new physics engine being the issue. I have the same problems with spell targeting, and ranged, well...

My arti is now a scroll healer with a runearm.

It may be making the problem more visible, but both OP's and my issues have been around since before the physics update.

[Chai]

No one cares about rangers anymore. I would think the nerf to animation and manyshot proved that some time ago. It's all about the barb now.

bARb: HEAL MEH!!!!!!
BaRb: HAGE MEH!!
bArb: Why ain no one bufn meh? Your buffing that fighter!!
Fighter: er actually im just whipping heal scrolls and gs clickies on myself.
DING.
Fighter: Don't worry my chubby raged buddy. You just ride in big daddy's pack for awhile. I'll zerg ahead and get us to that shrine!

Barb: These silver flame pots make my pant muscles weaker after I drank em! Y U No hJeal meh?

[HAL]

The new physics engine made a lot of existing issues worse. :(

[QNecron]

The new physics engine made a lot of existing issues worse. :(

Guess the question is... Will they be fixed before the expansion or will people returning to or trying DDO experience them? I for one hope this all gets ironed out before the release, but I wont be holding my breath lol.

[arjiwan]

It may be making the problem more visible, but both OP's and my issues have been around since before the physics update.

Yes sir, it was existing before, but it is worse now.

Really really worse :(

[Ungood]

Guess the question is... Will they be fixed before the expansion or will people returning to or trying DDO experience them? I for one hope this all gets ironed out before the release, but I wont be holding my breath lol.

I laughed so hard.. Thinking about this. Like players coming back to DDO for the FR expansion and slamming into a wall of all the problems that led them to leave in the first place, only worse, like getting hit in the face with a wet mackerel.

I await the coming rage with mostly likely wrongful excitement.

[GermanicusMaximus]

Barb: These silver flame pots make my pant muscles weaker after I drank em! Y U No hJeal meh?

Sorry, divine casters don't get spells that cure...ah..."weak pant muscles". I do see quite a few ads on TV that claim to provide a cure, however. :D

[GermanicusMaximus]

I do get the feeling however that all that work I put into my casters soon to be for naught.
Some people have the agenda that casters should be seen and not heard.
Soon as that comes to place my 6 year stint in this game will abruptly end.

The reality is that the game is fairly deeply divided into two groups:

1) People who believe skill should matter.
2) People who believe everyone should be uber.

One of those groups is about to be disappointed, and a lot of those disappointed people are destined to leave relatively soon.

I have no intention of hanging around a game in which my toon is as powerful as an 8 year old swinging his great axe.

[Bacab]

The reality is that the game is fairly deeply divided into two groups:

1) People who believe skill should matter.
2) People who believe everyone should be uber.

One of those groups is about to be disappointed, and a lot of those disappointed people are destined to leave relatively soon.

I have no intention of hanging around a game in which my toon is as powerful as an 8 year old swinging his great axe.

This is pretty much how I feel.

I had a buddy (that has quit) that used to ONLY play his supremely geared Barb. Eventually I convinced him to roll up a FVS and learn to actually play.

He used to be the classic "Nanny me now healer" type barb. As he learned to play other classes...he quit playing the game like it was Diablo. He started to use the "F" keys and his hot bar in combat.

A player who manages his aggro and twitches and learns how to flank and how to avoid flanks...they SHOULD be better than the moron who stands in the middle of a pack of mobs clicking his right mouse button.

This is not necessarily a melee vs caster comment. But I will say, most melees who become really great...usually roll up other toons and can play both styles equally well. The guys that can *only* (notice I did not say prefer) play melee generally suck and should not be as powerful as the guy who knows the ins and outs of every class and style of play.

[Noopleh]

There is no new physics engine, the old engine had an update and the boobs at turbine messed it up.

I thought you quit? Why are you still on the forums? Just curious...

[Miow]

I need to peeoop! To the bathroom everybody~!

[mikesharpshooter]

that is why archery is become so funny........i'm losing a lot of arrow shots. no miss, no hit.....just disappear

[Xynot2]

Balance will never be attained as long as there is a solo aspect to the game. They have to make every character soloable(including hirelings). It's just the way it is. Never gonna change. I wish people would stop hacking on this subject.

[AestorTheKnight]

The new physics engine made a lot of existing issues worse. :(

This! :(