Haggle Bard - At what point is it worth it

[wlmartin]

Typically whenever I have something that I have looted, my usual rule of thumb is to try and sell on the AH first (assuming it isnt complete vendor trash like pots, scrolls, arrows, regs etc)

Depending on my mood and time, I will either find the undercut price of whatever the going rate is on the AH (sometimes unreliable if there are 1 or a few and they are overpriced anyways) and sell to compete with that. Sometimes if I am pushed I'll just sell at bid price of 1/3 base value, buy now of 2/3 base value.

If items don't sell on AH (using above practice), I am out of AH slots, Need cash quick or for any other reason where an AH sale isnt going to happen, I go to the vendors.

I know there is value to selling at vendors providing that haggle and charisma are high enough. I know that you want to sell to Pawn vendors over general vendors since there is a clear 5% difference in most cases between the price offered.


Now, my big question is... at what point does a typical Haggle Bard type build work?

The intention would be to POST (not shared bank as dont have that) items to the Haggle Bard, they sell at Vendors and POST the monies back to the other toon.

I imagine there are two specific break points when dealing under this scenario.
1 : The level of item...
2 : The amount of haggle...

Typically these might seem to go hand in hand but point 1 is something that is dependant on the toon who is external to the haggle bard and posting items to him. Point 2 is dependant on the level of the haggle bard himself.

Since every 4 points of haggle gets you an extra percentage
: 1000pp item, with 20 haggle will net you an additional 5% return, so 50plat
: 10,000pp item, with 40 haggle will net you an additional 10% return, so 1000plat

At the first example, we have a fairly low value item and a fairly low haggle... 50pp sounds better than nothing but when you factor in a 2% post tax, that actually works out to be 30pp profit.

In the second example, we are cooking a bit more now, the tax on sending the item would be 200pp, so still a profit from selling normally of 800plat.


So the big question I am wondering is :

... is it worth spending the time and effort building a Haggle Bard?
... at what point in ITEM VALUE & HAGGLE SCORE does the activity of selling everything through your Haggle Bard seem viable?


I don't have a problem with spending my last slot on one and having him/her live out of A/Haven (since that Pawn vendor seems the best option to sell to, correct me if wrong) but wondered if it was worth it and if so at what point does one see gains that make it worth the effort of actually selling this way.


Most of us have several break points (often a constant evolving one) as we level. At low levels, selling everything at 50-100pp we can is worthwhile, it makes us money and helps us grow as a character. As we go on, that stuff becomes Vendor Trash and we will only sell items worth 1000pp or so, then we move past that and will only sell items worth 5000pp.... and it goes on.

With this in mind, having a Haggle Bard is a great thing but if the benefit isnt that great compared to the effort (of both leveling the mule as well as swapping between them, posting etc) why bother?

If anyone has any advice along these lines, I would appreciate hearing back.

Thanks

[Cyndrome]

Typically whenever I have something that I have looted, my usual rule of thumb is to try and sell on the AH first (assuming it isnt complete vendor trash like pots, scrolls, arrows, regs etc)


Thanks

In my opinion, if you are going to go through all of the trouble of sending your loot to a character, you should send it to a crafter instead. Haggle bards are dead and crafting killed them. It really did not help that there are a hundred more effective ways to make plat in the game than selling trash to vendors.

[RaidMR]

In my opinion, if you are going to go through all of the trouble of sending your loot to a character, you should send it to a crafter instead. Haggle bards are dead and crafting killed them. It really did not help that there are a hundred more effective ways to make plat in the game than selling trash to vendors.

What if your haggle bard is your crafter? I have a haggle bard (primarily cause I wanted to try bards out in the game) and liked it enough to keep levelling her. Now on the verge of capping I'll do a re-spec, gear her up for epic content/raids and max out her haggle. From then on I just keep her at 20, raid and epic when I want to, keep climbing up the crafting levels and selling the stuff not worthy to grind for max profit. Sure it's not as speedy as plat farming, but with my bard set up this way I can concentrate on levelling and flagging toons rather than farming a quest cause I'm short on cash.

...Of course I could always plat farm with my bard if need be.

I guess if you like a bard build, and can spare the skill points, why not pick up haggle?

[McFlay]

Why bother, plats useless. All the end game gear binds anyhow, so the most useful thing you ever buy are stacks of scroll and you end up dumping the leftovers into large gs mats just so you dont cap your plat.

[Spoonwelder]

For me time >>>>>plat. So I just sell, repair and buff then get back to questing. At best I will hit House K guild vendor while I top up scrolls/pots/reagents. Otherwise I just hit the bar on the ship.

I just don't have time to fiddle around maxing my plat return. That said in the time others get around to all the vendors, AH, mailbox I am likely done another quest and have 2-5 more chests of loot to sell. I think my process works fairly well.

That said I will AH things like excess Taps, Tome Pages, Relics, Scales etc....they are worth putting in the AH.

I understand on a first life plat is scarce. But your return is so much better just getting back to questing that you can just do that and be fine. It also helps being on a low resources type character.

[aeroplanefly]

The downside is crafting... you get essence and plat for your deconstruction. Don't forget, haggle helps on both ends, so if you're making a UMD bard, you can buy scrolls at a cheaper rate, at times cheaper than what you can find them for at auction. This is great if you're making a spell singer and putting all points to haggle.

In addition, if you plan on TRing to any build, bards innate TR bonus is effective for saves vs enchantments (& illusions, which are less frequent, but no one likes to fail a save from PK), which is a critical defense to any character. If you went the route of maxing haggle up to level 20, found a +15 (or possibly an epic +20) haggle item, maxed out charisma in any way shape and form and stored a bunch of skill pots, you could easily purchase scrolls, pots, and other items until your heart stops. Then you could TR to another scroll using class without paying tooth and nail for scrolls.

[Ivan_Milic]

Haggle bard is for saving money now,not making,with my bard I buy all buffs on ship much much cheaper,he is at 67 haggle now lvl 15.
With him I sell all those arrows,throwing weaps,scrolls to general vendor,nets me a lot of pp.

[eclipse668]

deconstruction pretty much made the 'selling Bard' obsolete...
... on the other hand your bard will be immensely popular amongst your friends that use scrolls and/or wands on a regular basis (in raids, epic quests and the like).

slightly offtopic but I'd suggest you look at a rogue for your haggle needs aswell - they level faster and I feel they have an edge pushing skills to the max compared to a bard.

[CanuckWisdom]

What if your haggle bard is your crafter? I have a haggle bard (primarily cause I wanted to try bards out in the game) and liked it enough to keep levelling her. Now on the verge of capping I'll do a re-spec, gear her up for epic content/raids and max out her haggle. From then on I just keep her at 20, raid and epic when I want to, keep climbing up the crafting levels and selling the stuff not worthy to grind for max profit. Sure it's not as speedy as plat farming, but with my bard set up this way I can concentrate on levelling and flagging toons rather than farming a quest cause I'm short on cash.

...Of course I could always plat farm with my bard if need be.

I guess if you like a bard build, and can spare the skill points, why not pick up haggle?

I havnt really been taking crafting that serious, but i am aboiut lvl 50 and want to start deconing items for essences till I can make +6 items for alts. My bard is my crafter, and I've noticed that unless I want to send items over from other toons (instead of selling on them), or decon essences, I am deconning on my highest haggle character! Not a big deal ofc, just saying.

[Gremmlynn]

First off, the Ataraxia broker isn't the best deal. Vendors seem to be in three tiers. Lowest are standard vendors that buy for 10% base value (pre-haggle). Second are vendors after completing an areas quest chain (Harbor=Water Works, Market=STK, House P=Tangleroot, House J=Delara's, House K=Sarrowdusk, House D=3BC) at 12.5% base value, this is also what you get from the Ataraxia all purpose broker. The third are the specific item brokers, which pay out 15% of base value. So no, the Ataraxia broker pays out no better than the harbor vendors do, assuming you have completed WW.

As to whether a haggle bard is worth one's time, especially without a shared bank, I would say only if you use a lot of consumables that come in stacks and don't have access to the already discounted but BTC stuff from guild vendors. Just the time it takes to mail everything back and forth one item at a time would likely cost more in lost earnings than it makes/saves otherwise.

[Stormraiser]

Buy a +15 haggle item for yourself and swap it in when selling items.

[Gremmlynn]

Buy a +15 haggle item for yourself and swap it in when selling items.The question here is, how long will it take to make or save enough plat from that item to make up what you paid for it? I generally just go with the best item I find as the difference between a +11 or even +7 and a +15 is only 1-2% which to me means a lot of buying or selling to make up what I spent on that item before actually starting to see a profit from it.

[badkhan]

For me time >>>>>plat. So I just sell, repair and buff then get back to questing. At best I will hit House K guild vendor while I top up scrolls/pots/reagents. Otherwise I just hit the bar on the ship.

I just don't have time to fiddle around maxing my plat return. That said in the time others get around to all the vendors, AH, mailbox I am likely done another quest and have 2-5 more chests of loot to sell. I think my process works fairly well.

That said I will AH things like excess Taps, Tome Pages, Relics, Scales etc....they are worth putting in the AH.

I understand on a first life plat is scarce. But your return is so much better just getting back to questing that you can just do that and be fine. It also helps being on a low resources type character.

I couldn't agree more. Think about the time you'll be wasting sending stuff from your toons to your bard, then putting them at the AH and/or broker. You really should just sell them and go back questing. It is way more efficient and fun.

[~Glimrac]

I haven't done the math, but my HaggleBard nets me a lot of plat, more than if I just sold it on the character who earned it.

He is also my crafter, so depending on my bank balance he can either deconstruct everything or sell everything.

Plus he was fun to cap. I'd TR him if I wasn't so addicted to the coin he brings into the family.

To the OP, if you don't enjoy playing a bard, don't bother trying to cap him. They aren't for everyone's tastes, they can be frustrating to play in PUGs, and many group leaders only want certain flavors of bard in their groups.

[Grimdiegn]

My Human Arty crafter has a buffed haggle of 56. Good enough to sell what's not worth deconstructing.;)

[DarkAlchemist]

I stop caring about haggle when I can walk into House P and go up to the shop and pay 85% of the cost for a bag. At that point I seem to go from 60% to 100% depending on which vendor I am buying from but I do have to say that deconstructing a lvl 5 item (value 12k-16k) will never net me as much coin as if I sold it to a vendor unless I am doing something wrong.

[DarkAlchemist]

The question here is, how long will it take to make or save enough plat from that item to make up what you paid for it? I generally just go with the best item I find as the difference between a +11 or even +7 and a +15 is only 1-2% which to me means a lot of buying or selling to make up what I spent on that item before actually starting to see a profit from it.

On Ghallanda (my original server) I used to buy a +15 as soon as I could wear it but would not pay more than 15kp. Back then I would make the plat back for the purchase in about 10-20 transactions or about one evening of questing. After that evening the rest was all profit but a +15 Haggle item means I was 15 to wear it so the quests, back then, were level 17 (elite 15) so the loot was 7k-16k and sometimes 18k valued. Run to go sale the loot in IQ at 16 (with the haggle item on) then what they wouldn't buy zip over to Ataraxia or The Portable Hole and sell the rest. It really was worth it, or at least it was to me.

[Robai]

I know two bards on Orien with haggle 95+ (one of them has 98).

[Gremmlynn]

On Ghallanda (my original server) I used to buy a +15 as soon as I could wear it but would not pay more than 15kp. Back then I would make the plat back for the purchase in about 10-20 transactions or about one evening of questing. After that evening the rest was all profit but a +15 Haggle item means I was 15 to wear it so the quests, back then, were level 17 (elite 15) so the loot was 7k-16k and sometimes 18k valued. Run to go sale the loot in IQ at 16 (with the haggle item on) then what they wouldn't buy zip over to Ataraxia or The Portable Hole and sell the rest. It really was worth it, or at least it was to me.Really? By that level I have generally looted a +11 haggle item from a chest, so all a +15 gives is 4 more haggle or 1%. So if I spend only 15k plat for the higher level item, I would need to sell 1.5 million plat in base item value to make up the cost of upgrading from a +11 to a +15 and start seeing a profit. Or 100+ items at your estimates of what you find. If really unlucky and I've only managed to loot a +7 item, I still need to sell 750k worth of stuff from that extra 2% from the better haggle item to be worth the 15k spent on it and to start pulling ahead.

[nibel]

In my opinion, if you are going to go through all of the trouble of sending your loot to a character, you should send it to a crafter instead. Haggle bards are dead and crafting killed them.

^This.

Deconstructing items give you not only essences, but free crafting XP. Sure, 1-5 XP don't look like a lot of XP, but is free XP that still return essences. Much better than selling the item and buying essences from players.


What if your haggle bard is your crafter?

Also this^

I had a haggle bard before, and she had a self-buffed haggle in the mid 70s. I send all deconstructable items I got to her via shared bank, sell the weapons to IQ broker, decon anything tier 3 or higher, sell the rest.

Then Artificers were released.

Since her crafting levels were on high 60 at the time, the decision to TR her into a human dragonmarked artificer wasn't that hard. Now she is a capped artificer (still with maxxed haggle, but around 60s) with level 95 in all crafting schools, and I keep the same plan with her: Send items via shared bank, sell weapons, decon the rest.

I never had a capped plat toon. My best was around 1 million when the first crystal cove allowed us to sell that 9k wands. I could cap it, but the process was boring as hell, so I stopped at 1mil. Other that this spike (that hit the ENTIRE game), my shared plat bank is usually between 100 and 200k before I spend it.

[Chette]

IMO haggle bards died when guild vendors came out. Haggle bards were never particularly useful for selling vendor trash, it just wasn't worth the time it would take to move all your items over, unless you have like 1000 spots in your shared bank.

Haggle bards used to be really handy for buying heal scrolls. But now the BTC scrolls you can get from the guild vendor on a character with no haggle are about the same price as the unbound scrolls on a character with high haggle.

I still have one fairly high haggle character, but I think the last time I used her to buy/sell anything was during the dowsing rod "incident".

[DarkAlchemist]

Really? By that level I have generally looted a +11 haggle item from a chest, so all a +15 gives is 4 more haggle or 1%. So if I spend only 15k plat for the higher level item, I would need to sell 1.5 million plat in base item value to make up the cost of upgrading from a +11 to a +15 and start seeing a profit. Or 100+ items at your estimates of what you find. If really unlucky and I've only managed to loot a +7 item, I still need to sell 750k worth of stuff from that extra 2% from the better haggle item to be worth the 15k spent on it and to start pulling ahead.
Coming from no Haggle item and a +15 is what I was talking about which is big. Now if I found (which was the case occasionally) a +7 I would eventually find a +10 but then had to decide if it was worth the price for a 15 and most times no but for those characters with no haggle items by 15 the 15kp (max mind you but most times was only 8kp) was well spent. Also, the time I am talking about we measured in gold not plat so I would spend on average 50-80kG as 80kp back then would have been money of the gods.

Sort of funny but I was gone for a year from day 1 u5 until u10.1 and all of the items I used to buy for say 100kG were now 100kP because P became the standard meaning everything went up 10 times in price.

So, 15kp I mentioned is what it would cost, I guess, in todays game but back then 8000G was the average price I paid.

[DarkAlchemist]

IMO haggle bards died when guild vendors came out. Haggle bards were never particularly useful for selling vendor trash, it just wasn't worth the time it would take to move all your items over, unless you have like 1000 spots in your shared bank.

Haggle bards used to be really handy for buying heal scrolls. But now the BTC scrolls you can get from the guild vendor on a character with no haggle are about the same price as the unbound scrolls on a character with high haggle.

I still have one fairly high haggle character, but I think the last time I used her to buy/sell anything was during the dowsing rod "incident".
I agree with this and why I have no real haggle on my characters (~45-48 on my rogue is my max) anymore and don't really care EXCEPT for Yugo pots. Man, those are so expensive even with a high buttocks haggle.

[werk]

I can't directly answer your question, but I can share my experience.

For the last couple of years my primary focus has been leveling TR characters, so I decided that I should have a haggle bard for purchasing potions and other consumables that also functions as my AH point and bank toon. I leveled up a human bard with max cha and then switched out feats for negotiator and skill focus haggle. I was easily able to get her haggle above 80, which is far below being 'maxxed out'.

I DO NOT RECOMMEND PLAYING YOUR HAGGLE BARD, IT IS TO BE USED FOR HAGGLE EXCLUSIVELY.

I purchase 8000/stacks of potions for 5000, and spend about 250k/month keeping up my typhoon airship with all the buffs. Despite all the purchasing that I do, she still gains about a million plat every couple months which I then use to purchase large ingredients, essences, or just hand out to guildies, etc.

For me, the haggle bard wasn't a decision for making plat so much as it was for saving plat.

Since you do not have a shared bank, I would strongly recommend creating a second f2p account and passing the items/pp back and forth to avoid any charges. You can run 2 DDO clients on one computer pretty easily as long as you aren't playing on your phone.

[Gremmlynn]

Coming from no Haggle item and a +15 is what I was talking about which is big. Now if I found (which was the case occasionally) a +7 I would eventually find a +10 but then had to decide if it was worth the price for a 15 and most times no but for those characters with no haggle items by 15 the 15kp (max mind you but most times was only 8kp) was well spent. Also, the time I am talking about we measured in gold not plat so I would spend on average 50-80kG as 80kp back then would have been money of the gods.

Sort of funny but I was gone for a year from day 1 u5 until u10.1 and all of the items I used to buy for say 100kG were now 100kP because P became the standard meaning everything went up 10 times in price.

So, 15kp I mentioned is what it would cost, I guess, in todays game but back then 8000G was the average price I paid.Even going from no item to a +15 item is only an of 3.75% the base value of what you sell, or 3.75k/100k value in items. So 200k in items sold to start seeing a positive return on a haggle item that you paid only 7.5k for.

For myself, I seem to find enough progressively better haggle items mixed into my loot to see buying one worth it. I may not have a +15 on every character, but the difference between that and a +11 or 13 I do have is to small to make buying one worth the cost to my mind.

[goodspeed]

Well for the main thing i'd say buying things. I carry alot of pots on my melee's, and I go through stacks of heal scrolls in self healing on any char that can use em. Raise dead scrolls? Those are around 500 plat a pop.

Stuff adds up when you take a few thousand here and there.

[DarkAlchemist]

Even going from no item to a +15 item is only an of 3.75% the base value of what you sell, or 3.75k/100k value in items. So 200k in items sold to start seeing a positive return on a haggle item that you paid only 7.5k for.

For myself, I seem to find enough progressively better haggle items mixed into my loot to see buying one worth it. I may not have a +15 on every character, but the difference between that and a +11 or 13 I do have is to small to make buying one worth the cost to my mind.I agree with your last statement but I can tell you going from 0 to 15 made my first million gold across 6 chars. Once that happened, and I looked forward to IQ and level 16 to get in for this very reason, I never looked back.

Now, flash forward to the present game and I just make a CC +15 hat or craft a +13 shard and be done with it but I still make my run to IQ if they are a new character I create as I believe in not spending money from existing characters to help out a new character I make until that character has enough cash to pay myself back. I started that policy after the character with the 1 million gold went broke due to my alt-itis, lol. :/

[wonko_the_sane]

dude, a hagglebard is totally worth it. The net effect of selling high and buying low can be felt in the bank account. And it's fun to load it down with so much junk it can barely move and then make the run to the vendors. The sort of thing you do at work when you should be reading the forums.

You might want to take a look at the Mississippee Queen build. This is a VERY playable bard, alot of fun, and maxes out the haggle.

As others have mentioned, don't buy a haggle item. It takes forever to make back the money you spent buying it. The Cove hat with the highest haggle possible for your current level is the way to go. For maximum leet-uber-hagglebardness add as much strength as possible so you can carry more junk.

And to transfer stuff to your hagglebard a second account is better then the mailbox. It's actually faster to trade everything to a character on your second account and then log your hagglebard. Cheaper too. Of course, shared bank with every slot is nice, too.

If transfering stuff to your hagglebard, then running him to the various brokers (house K, house D, marketplace) isn't fun for you, don't do it. A bad day haggling is still better than a good day at work.

And remember your shipbuffs: the House K dwarf gives +5 haggle, the charisma shrine helps your haggle, (even if it gives you and odd-number for your charisma stat), and the House J halfling lady gives +1 to all skills including haggle.

[FreudoBaggins]

so it seems that different people have different levels of tolerance for the PIA that selling loot involves.

here's a suggestion that strikes a balance between getting every copper and maximizing game time:

after you post to the AH:
1) use your hagglebard to sell off all vendor trash weapons to the House D (level 4 and above) or IQ (6 and over?) brokers - weapons have the highest face value;
2) use your hagglebard to sell vendor trash armor in House K or IQ if you have the patience and carry capacity; decon if not - armor has the second-highest face value;
3) decon all vendor trash clothing and jewelry;
4) don't bother transferring miscellaneous loot: sell to the nearest vendor or tavernkeeper.

I used to mail all loot and collectibles to a hagglebard before the shared bank was available - I will never do that again. I highly recommend getting the shared bank, whether right now or waiting for the next DDO store sale; the time and aggro you save is worth it.

If you have the shared bank, you can keep a medium gem and collectible and small ingredient bag there to transfer those things efficiently.

the ship strength shrine increases your weight limit even at an odd number.

If you have vet 4 status (1000 total favor) you can make a good hagglebard with little effort -

I have a level 6 with 52 Haggle:
feats: Negotiatior and SF: Haggle
enhancements: Charisma, Imp. Haggle and Human Versatility (Action Boost Skills)
spells: Eagle's Splendor, Expeditious Retreat, Focusing Chant
boat buffs:Charisma, Dwarven Stoutness and Phiarlan Inspiration
+1 crafted Luck trinket and +10 haggle item

[LordMond63]

I have a Hagglebard that I also play a good deal, with a skill of around 70.

To this point, I have been putting all the loot with a base value of 5000pp and up in my shared bank for her to sell to the vendors and that yields a nice little stack of plat every couple of days.

However, the idea of deconstructing the items has an appeal. I have absolutely no interest in crafting, but if the essences that I could obtain via deconstruction sell for a decent amount (contrary to some, I'm a firm believer that you can never have enough plat...until you hit the plat limit of course), then I'd go that route.

Opinions?

[zeonardo]

Long story short:

If you cross an olympic swimming pool with an Alka-Seltzer in each hand, we won't see a single bubble coming out...

[nibel]

However, the idea of deconstructing the items has an appeal. I have absolutely no interest in crafting, but if the essences that I could obtain via deconstruction sell for a decent amount (contrary to some, I'm a firm believer that you can never have enough plat...until you hit the plat limit of course), then I'd go that route.

Opinions?

Not worth it.

If you do have a crafter, deconning is a great way to award xp and essences at the same time. Specially because you'll end with tons of lesser essences, saving you the hassle to break the greaters into lessers one at a time.

If you do NOT have a crafter, deconning return very few greater essences, and will give you a lot of lessers. And as far as I know, no one buy lesser essences.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

A haggle bard was never meant to be a toon for everybody. The way I designed mine, I can get 90+ haggle and top end CC and heal for a bard. Its a very playable bard in my hands.

Is it worth it for someone to build a haggle-only toon? I certainly wouldn't in yesterday or today's DDO. If you can build it in a way that you can play it, it can be a very valuable toon that is useful in quest and out.

[DarkAlchemist]

I have a Hagglebard that I also play a good deal, with a skill of around 70.

To this point, I have been putting all the loot with a base value of 5000pp and up in my shared bank for her to sell to the vendors and that yields a nice little stack of plat every couple of days.

However, the idea of deconstructing the items has an appeal. I have absolutely no interest in crafting, but if the essences that I could obtain via deconstruction sell for a decent amount (contrary to some, I'm a firm believer that you can never have enough plat...until you hit the plat limit of course), then I'd go that route.

Opinions?
Large goes for 250-300p most trades and on the AH for 600+ but I don't know if those sell or not.

[Citzen_Gkar]

Why bother, plats useless. All the end game gear binds anyhow, so the most useful thing you ever buy are stacks of scroll and you end up dumping the leftovers into large gs mats just so you dont cap your plat.

I hate to tell you, but there is more to the game than end game for most people.

[KillEveryone]

I'm happy with my haggle bard.

I save a lot of plat when I purchase haste pots and heal scrolls.

It isn't for everyone but it all depends upon what you want.

[taurean430]

Hmmm...

I'm currently leveling a haggle bard. SS variant to run quests with to get to cap, then max haggling the toon out.

Why?

I'm in a small guild with some guys who've been around since the beginning essentially. Even though a haggle bard is considered old craft or whatever I've taken notice of the number of times I am broke vs my guildies. I've also taken note of how quickly any of them can get back to or near plat cap without selling mats.

I'd like to have that advantage as well. And I do not want to have to ask my guild for anything that isn't absolutely needed.

Opinions vary on the issue. But I've noticed that even using my SS or WC to sell vendor loot I can make an appreciable amount with their measly 46/56 haggle. But really it's a play choice, because it can be time intensive moving loot around via the shared bank.

As far as crafting killing haggle bards, don't know if I'd agree with that. My crafter is over level 100 without bothering to deconstruct much of anything save junk shards.

[Lilliana]

IMO haggle bards died when guild vendors came out. Haggle bards were never particularly useful for selling vendor trash, it just wasn't worth the time it would take to move all your items over, unless you have like 1000 spots in your shared bank.

Haggle bards used to be really handy for buying heal scrolls. But now the BTC scrolls you can get from the guild vendor on a character with no haggle are about the same price as the unbound scrolls on a character with high haggle.

I still have one fairly high haggle character, but I think the last time I used her to buy/sell anything was during the dowsing rod "incident".

I think I have very little money compared to you, if 45 p per scroll is nothing to you :)

My cleric can get the BtC guild Heal scrolls for 165 p and my bard can get unbound scrolls for 120 p self-buffed (without ship buffs).

As a first lifer I am very happy with my haggle bard, she does make a difference for me. But I understand many people have enough money to get what they need and therefore they don't need one (which is absolutely cool for them!). I'm just not one of them, and I haven't been part of any "incidents", so that perhaps sets me back a bit :-P
Oh yeah, she is playable too and fun too. I made her as a Virtuoso variant of Leslies Mississippee Queen and she was very fun to play while levelling. She is a spellsinger now. I like the Virtuoso for levelling and the Spellsinger for late game, but YMMW.

OP: This thead (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2795300&postcount=354) can perhaps help answer you question.

[Faent]

Anyone who has a Haggle Bard knows their value. They didn't die.

[wlmartin]

I have a Hagglebard that I also play a good deal, with a skill of around 70.

To this point, I have been putting all the loot with a base value of 5000pp and up in my shared bank for her to sell to the vendors and that yields a nice little stack of plat every couple of days.

However, the idea of deconstructing the items has an appeal. I have absolutely no interest in crafting, but if the essences that I could obtain via deconstruction sell for a decent amount (contrary to some, I'm a firm believer that you can never have enough plat...until you hit the plat limit of course), then I'd go that route.

Opinions?

So... for a Hagglebard I have heard lots of ideas... Heroism Item, 1lvl Rogue for Skill Boost, +15 item etc

The way I reckon it, I could see at getting a 60 haggle soon enough and with that I could get an additional 15% money from vendors. Minus the 2% for me not having a shared bank (or willing to run 2nd account simul) thats 13% extra.

So say my regular toon has about 30,000ppof loot he has been saving up, he transfers it all over and the additional (not total, just additional since we are focusing on the value add) would be 4,500pp.

TBH, upon thinking about it - it just doesnt seem worth the hassle.
Useful if I had a bard and had haggle but to make one for the purpose of doing it - doesnt seem worth it.

Would I like nearly twice the $$$ from what I get from Vendors - sure!
However typically most stuff with sell on AH for 30% of base value without much worry most of the time so is it really worth me worrying about running a bard for this purpose alone? - nope

I however have a crafting toon, my sorceror who I intend to TR into a bard, so the crafting / haggle side of things could be fun there, but until i do that ill just stick to AH/vendors

[Faent]

So say my regular toon has about 30,000pp of loot he has been saving up, he transfers it all over and the additional (not total, just additional since we are focusing on the value add) would be 4,500pp. TBH, upon thinking about it - it just doesnt seem worth the hassle.

Your math is bad. You need to compare the plat you'd get from vendoring your loot on a toon with no haggle to the plat you'd get from selling that same loot on a toon with high haggle. (And that's only one side of the equation, of course, since the haggle toon can buy scrolls and potions for much less.)

[Faent]

To give you some idea of what's going on, I just logged in a toon with a total Haggle of 19. I took some items and tried to sell them to the airship vendor. These items are worth 85,883 if you go by the prices on them. He offered 12,668 plat. Had I sold them to him, I'd have made 12.6K plat. Then I popped onto my haggle bard and tried to sell these 9 items to the airship vendor. Result? 24.6K plat. In short, my haggle bard is selling to the airship vendor for TWICE what a toon with 19 haggle is selling to the airship vendor. And my haggle bard is nowhere near close to her max haggle.

[Ugumagre]

I have a splashed haggle bard.
First, it is lots of fun playing it, much more than I thought.
Second, I am vending all the loot of the guild people that don´t want to care about economic things.
So I always go to the chest, loot all, vendor or deconstruct it. As we are all RL friends in the guild, if somebody needs cash, he asks me.
It is really handy and I only have 58 haggle (all buffs) at the time, planing for 80 cap.

[Raithe]

In short, my haggle bard is selling to the airship vendor for TWICE what a toon with 19 haggle is selling to the airship vendor. And my haggle bard is nowhere near close to her max haggle.

Yes, but you are putting a value on plat.

The people who are saying that haggle bards are obsolete have recognized, credibly, that plat essentially grows on trees.

When I was short a couple kilos of plat to buy a catalyst for my kensei, I ran up to the Vale and got it. Took about 5 minutes.

How much time are you ultimately spending sending stuff back and forth to your bard?

It's nice to have a default banker (if you have multiple characters), but that's about it.

[phillymiket]

Yes, but you are putting a value on plat.

The people who are saying that haggle bards are obsolete have recognized, credibly, that plat essentially grows on trees.

Some people are newer and their plat tree isn't yet bearing fruit.

I'm sure you and all here can remember when platinum wasn't useless to you; when there were items you didn't have yet and wanted; when that planar gird on the AH seemed like it cost all the money in Eberron.

For those people I say still don't make a haggle bard.

Make a bard for sure.
Max the haggle.
But make a bard that is built to be fun to play.

The difference in cash brought in with sales and saved with purchases between your Warchanter (or rogue) with maxed Haggle and any other toon you have will be significant and noticeable.
(anyone who says +15% return on sales plus -15% expenses won't make a difference probable shouldn't start their own business)

The economic difference between your Warchanter and a Full ****** Haggle Bard won't be so noticeable but the difference in your effectiveness in party will be dramatically noticeable IMO.

If a Bard (or other class that unlocks haggle) seems like it would be fun anyway then:
- Roll one
- Keep shared bank clear.
- Drop only expensive items it the bank.
- Log in Haggle toon at the end or session and sell all
- Log in/out haggle toon near your favorite vender (or don't bother with vender to save time)

Not too hard and if done that way takes only a moment of time and if your actually playing the bard takes no time. (another advantage of a viable toon with haggle -vs- a "haggle" toon)

Soon, as others have commented, you will probably stop bothering with the haggle toon because it just won't be worth the effort after you have most of what you want.
In the mean time you will love the extra plat influx, I'm sure.

As your account is now with no bank and relying on the mail...give it a try, I guess.
I suspect you will become frustrated with the effort vs return.
.

[FrancisP.Fancypants]

In my opinion, if you are going to go through all of the trouble of sending your loot to a character, you should send it to a crafter instead. Haggle bards are dead and crafting killed them. It really did not help that there are a hundred more effective ways to make plat in the game than selling trash to vendors.


What if your haggle bard is your crafter?

I took the extra-easy route once arties came out: crafting level bonuses, an abundance of skill points for haggle, and all my other alts just have the one toon to send their loot/essences/collectibles to. I don't even look at gear anymore, I just mail it: if it's not trash it gets auctioned, otherwise I throw it in the grinder.

My plat stays pretty healthy, and I don't hurt for essences.

[Propane]

Hay peps - Thought I would share what I am doing - it works well for me :)

All weapons 98K and up go into the shared bank - then on a mule (alt I don't run with).
All other non AH worth loot gets tossed into the crafting grinder...

When my mule has 3 packs work of 98K+ weapons - I go to house D and sell with a haggle bard (we have a guild one - but I am leveling my own up slowly).

The haggle score is about 90, I net between 200K and 250K plat per load :)

By doing this, I am keeping my plat funs and gaining crafting levels....

[Faent]

Yes, but you are putting a value on plat.

The people who are saying that haggle bards are obsolete have recognized, credibly, that plat essentially grows on trees.

When I was short a couple kilos of plat to buy a catalyst for my kensei, I ran up to the Vale and got it. Took about 5 minutes.

How much time are you ultimately spending sending stuff back and forth to your bard?

It's nice to have a default banker (if you have multiple characters), but that's about it.

I think you were responding to this post of mine:


Anyone who has a Haggle Bard knows their value. They didn't die.

Perhaps that was an exaggeration. Some people don't care about spending more than they have to to buy Heal scrolls. And some people don't even care about buying Heal scrolls. And others don't care about having endless supplies of plat on hand and would prefer to go farm something (like you) when they need plat. And others would prefer to just sell greensteel mats and red scales, etc...

I, on the other hand, place a value on my greensteel mats, and my red scales, since I can never get enough of these and since I'm never done making toons. And I like to blow through stacks and stacks of Heal and Reconstruct scrolls across several toons. And I like to keep TR after TR in stacks and stacks of potions. And I like to be able to spend millions and millions of plat buying crafting essences. So yeah, I place a value on plat, and my Haggle Bard has quite a lot of value.

[Raithe]

I, on the other hand, place a value on my greensteel mats, and my red scales, since I can never get enough of these and since I'm never done making toons. And I like to blow through stacks and stacks of Heal and Reconstruct scrolls across several toons. And I like to keep TR after TR in stacks and stacks of potions. And I like to be able to spend millions and millions of plat buying crafting essences. So yeah, I place a value on plat, and my Haggle Bard has quite a lot of value.

The crafting ingredients thing is definitely valid, and I've spent a LOT of plat myself just trying to finish items I had started. If you are a crafter, though, the counter-argument is that you'll be deconstructing most of it. (I've actually found that to be false personally - I only deconstruct +5 stuff, and sell all weapons and other non-+5 stuff for plat.)

As for stacks of potions and scrolls, that is where I think it pays to be a little discriminating. I try to carry and use only what a good group might need with some bad luck, and I let the bad groups fail. Of course I play to have fun and don't necessarily need a success to achieve that. Your mileage may vary.

My ultimate motivation was to try to warn the OP that building a bard solely for haggle purposes isn't really an efficient tactic for gameplay, and is likely to eventually get TR'd into something the player would rather play (if not a bard). My bard can get a 50ish haggle, and acts as the chief transaction-maker for all my characters (holds the most platinum constantly), but on the ranked list of reasons I play him, haggle would be near the bottom of the list.

I play my bard more than any other character because they are powerful and diverse. Building a haggle bard is like building a sorceror with "Trap the Soul" just for collecting soul gems.

[LordMond63]

I'd agree that the best of both worlds is to have a haggling character that you enjoy playing, and my Hagglebard meets that requirement.

And I did wonder about what you get when you decon an item. It appears that, as has been said here, no one buys lesser essences or, if they do, the price is so low that it makes very little sense to go through the hassle of deconning. If you have a small chance of getting back large essences and then only a handful of those, that's two strikes against right there. I'm convinced that the only case in which this makes sense is if you have a crafter.

[der_kluge]

A haggle of 50+ is definitely going to generate some return on investment. That's about where it gets really noticeable for me.

That said, I would definitely pick up the shared bank. It's far too convenient a thing not to own.

Here's my overall strategy:

I don't currently have a haggle bard, but my wizard's past life was a bard with a huge haggle, and she made more than my main character did. So, I definitely saw the benefit.

I don't crunch down gear for crafting. I tend to do as the poster does - I auction the things worth auctioning, often under-cutting the competition if I need to. For example, I can ALWAYS sell +5 thieves tools for at least 600-700 plat. Sure beats the vendor price. I don't bother auctioning things that I know won't sell. I simply don't waste my time with them. So, I vendor them.

I prefer to vendor things where I've earned favor - harbor, or marketplace are good places. For example, don't sell in house D unless you've also completed Scoundrel's Run - then they will give you a better rate.

I try not to vendor stuff without ship buffs. +2 charisma, +1 skills, there is also a +haggle/diplomacy dwarf. I think it's +3. All very nice buffs. Add in any GH clickies, and +15 haggle items, and that's a pretty big increase.


For crafting ingredients, the thing that works the best is TR'ing. You get a lot of ingredients from just running quests at level. So, I'll TR my alt, for example, and once they hit 20, I'll transfer all my ingredients over to my main. My first time of doing that was enough to take my main character to level 40 in all schools.

[MeliCat]

I wouldn't create one just for haggle alone. Although I very much enjoy getting a stack of heal scrolls fo ~12.6k And so do my friends :D There is a big advantage of having non BTC scrolls and other consumables too cf guild vendors.

Haggle of 76 without much effort is pretty easy to do.

So if *not* just for haggle alone, this is the whole list of why I bother:

haggle (as mentioned) is not hard - +3 cha skills on DT, take a chance no boots TOD (and party who knows to put you in the corner) for exceptional cha, only first 2x tiers of GS, human SS.
these days you only have to sneeze to get to cap. if you have any clue as to how to build and play a bard you'll be welcome in any party. you can respec your enhancements at cap to maximise your haggle but build as more of a party buffer/healer on the way to 20.
still a useful character to play in epics/von6/Hound at a pinch to help out
DM for chest blessing - +1 loot gem which stacks with other loot gems.
Quest opener you're not ever going to TR
doing this on an alternate account is super useful: window holder, character to bring you supplies wherever you are, to take vendor trash the second you step out of shroud, sit at the AH and check prices while waiting all those 5 min periods for buffs in Shroud or whatever, always logged in when you're on then your friends can always find you, can reset quests for people (I auto accept and then leave any request to party that comes in - helps friends, confuses noobs :P), extra chest puller for whatever quest (note chest blessing), quests like Hound that make is so much easier you don't have to wait for a bard and can bring your own (I have also occasionally been asked to dualbox other raids too for Heroic Inspiration etc ), SS *really* nice to bring into epics with you to increase your DCs, sp regen, spell pen, sp efficency when you're soloing and whatever etc (and the ocassional rezz if you're me...).


I am totally going to continue Xping my hagglebot with the new beta coming up :D

[~Jules921]

What I noticed that many failed to mention is that your haggle works in buying and selling. It even works with the guild vendors and wands are bta iirc.

Warchanters can be fun and are usually welcome in parties. Spellsingers can be party healers in a pinch as well. So choose your flavor. Max Charisma - if you have a crafter make your haggle item or use a cove item.

Human bards are great for the extra feat and human versatility, both are applied to haggle skill. They can get haggle up over 100 with all buffs available in game.

Jules

[LFKnowledge]

My haggle bard is also a crafter, so parked most of the time in the House Kundarak crafting hall.

Easy access to bank, auction house and crafting machines. Step out, and the guild vendors are there. House K has access to an airship port (unlike House C). One door away from Marketplace to access the Stone of Change for Haggle guild augments.

If my haggle bard was not a crafter, I would consider parking in the Necropolis. The mailbox, banker, and auction house are very close to each other.

Anyone have opinions on other good locations?

[MeliCat]

My haggle bard is also a crafter, so parked most of the time in the House Kundarak crafting hall.

Easy access to bank, auction house and crafting machines. Step out, and the guild vendors are there. House K has access to an airship port (unlike House C). One door away from Marketplace to access the Stone of Change for Haggle guild augments.

If my haggle bard was not a crafter, I would consider parking in the Necropolis. The mailbox, banker, and auction house are very close to each other.

Anyone have opinions on other good locations?

Level I think 46 boat? Or higher - whatever gets them all - boat would be equipped with bank, auction, mailbox, tavern, hagglebuff +5 shrine, +2 cha shrine.

[brian14]

The question here is, how long will it take to make or save enough plat from that item to make up what you paid for it? I generally just go with the best item I find as the difference between a +11 or even +7 and a +15 is only 1-2% which to me means a lot of buying or selling to make up what I spent on that item before actually starting to see a profit from it.
+15 haggle items are expensive. I think the best way to get one is to craft a +15 haggle Pirate Hat during Crystal Cove. Sorry if the advice came too late for this year :)

[Robai]

Many players don't realize how important is to sell stuff to brokers instead of vendors.
The difference is exactly as if your haggle skill were higher by 20.

Formula:
sell_out_value = item_base_price*(a+0.0025*Haggle)

For vendors, a = 0.1
(Barkeep, General Vendor, Barkeep on Ship, Guild General Vendor - all they give the same amount of platt)

For vendors with reputation quest completed, a = 0.125
(for example, any vendor in Harbor after you completed WW chain)

For brokers, a = 1.5
(for example, weapons broker in IQ or house D)

Some players sell stuff to the Shroud vendor (near portal to part4), but he gives not much, a = 0.075

For example, I have a lvl 18 weapon, with item_base_price = 20001.5 platt.
My haggle is 24.
Sell out values are these:
Vendor (in the Shroud) = 2700.203
Vendor (Barkeep on Ship) = 3200.24
Vendor with Rep quest (any vendor in Harbor) = 3700.278
Broker (Inspired Quarter) = 4200.315

If my haggle were 44 then Barkeep on Ship would give me 4200.315, i.e. exactly the same amount as Broker at haggle 24.

The usual sell-out path for me is this:
- use pendant of time (+50% speed, I also use sprint boost +35%, which stacks)
- exit ship in the Marketplace, sell Jewelry to Brokers there
- then go to Harbor and sprint to IQ, sell Weapons and Armor there (one skill boost is enough for both)
- then sprint to Hammer and Chain (Harbor, near bank) and sell the rest stuff there
- then back to ship and move to Twelve (to reset clickies/boosts) if your ship doesn't have Barkeep

This path takes a short time for me, but if I really don't have time then I use this path:
- exit ship in Harbor
- then sprint to IQ, sell Weapons and Armor there
- then sprint to Hammer and Chain and sell the rest stuff there
- then sprint back back to ship

[LFKnowledge]

Many players don't realize how important is to sell stuff to brokers instead of vendors.
The difference is exactly as if your haggle skill were higher by 20.


The usual sell-out path for me is this:
- use pendant of time (+50% speed, I also use sprint boost +35%, which stacks)
- exit ship in the Marketplace, sell Jewelry to Brokers there
- then go to Harbor and sprint to IQ, sell Weapons and Armor there (one skill boost is enough for both)
- then sprint to Hammer and Chain (Harbor, near bank) and sell the rest stuff there
- then back to ship and move to Twelve (to reset clickies/boosts) if your ship doesn't have Barkeep

This path takes a short time for me, but if I really don't have time then I use this path:
- exit ship in Harbor
- then sprint to IQ, sell Weapons and Armor there
- then sprint to Hammer and Chain and sell the rest stuff there
- then sprint back back to ship

+1, thanks for the details.

[Such755]

In my opinion, if you are going to go through all of the trouble of sending your loot to a character, you should send it to a crafter instead. Haggle bards are dead and crafting killed them. It really did not help that there are a hundred more effective ways to make plat in the game than selling trash to vendors.

False beyond recongnition.
If an item is worth over 9,800 plat I send it to my artificer, who has the highest haggles of all my toons.
I make enough money from vendors, that I can buy more essences for crafting than I would've gotten if I deconstructed the items.
The skills given from deconstruct is also taken into calculation, it's far more profitable to make money and buy essensces.
Also an awesome way to make great plat very easily. If you say that mailing junk to your alt then selling them is hard work, then I'm sorry to tell you but you're lazy.
I only get to sell weapons, since armor and accessories worth 9.8k are rare. And there's a weapon's broker close to a mailbox in the IQ. Very easy.

I was thinking about making a haggle bard for a while, but I've been too lazy myself. One of these days I guess.

[NaturalHazard]

I have a haggle bard, with a haggle into the high 80's, can do more than haggle and I often prefer to use my bard over my wizard to solo CC a lot of epics, like epic DA or into the deep.

What I do is send my high level weapons and sometimes armour to my haggle bard to sell for plat, via the shared bank while I deconstruct my trash items and low level weapons and armour, it also depends what is on the weapons/armour, I nearly always decon death block armours.

[Dreamshifter]

You mean, people still sell stuff to vendors? :eek:

Honestly, everything I find that isn't inherently amazing, gets turned into essences. Though I can see the benefit of selling, I'd rather make my own essences as much as I can, so that works for me. Then again, I am running pretty much only my crafter these days, so my choices are different from what others would do. Which pretty much describes me playing DDO, it seems. ;)

[Perspicacity]

I make enough money from vendors, that I can buy more essences for crafting than I would've gotten if I deconstructed the items.


^This.

My bard (who's not even capped yet) has a haggle of 71 and while I play him regularly I only hit the vendors once a day. I usually spend about 15 minutes on it and rare is the trip to the shop that doesn't see me walk away with well over 100 kpp which will buy me FAR more essences than I would have gotten from simply deconstructing the items I sold.

To the op, it's (TOTALY) worth it end game when you can use your ridiculous haggle to get 6 digit returns from one trip to the vendor.

[Zenako]

I have found that layering onto a Spellsinger for your Haggleness is a painless way to get outstanding returns. My capped spellsinger can push 70+ without any feats or enhancements points.

23 Ranks
15 Haggle Item
15 CHA (has a 40 CHA)
6 Green Steel CHA skills item
4 GH
1 Focusing Chant
2 Head of Good Fortune
5 Dwarf Boat Buff for the +5
totals
71 before spending any extra effort (pots, friendly bards or clerics, etc) and that level nets you a significant gain. At those levels you can even buy dirt cheap stuff on the AH from some sellers and still net a profit if you want.

For someone who does not raid constantly and for whom stacks of pots and scrolls are an expense to worry about, this does make a large difference.

[xberto]

And it's fun to load it down with so much junk it can barely move and then make the run to the vendors.
This^^^^^^^

There is a few discussions on haggle bards and I know this is an old thread, but I thought the OPs question is still relevant even though most the responses are not. I just thought I'd share my haggle bard experience.
I built my haggle Bard years ago back when cap was 16. Last year I leveled her to 20. I recently acquired a ML 27 Charismatic +10 Ring of Haggling +20 and thought why not? I spent a couple of nights on the XP weekend running Impossible Demands, farming to level 27 and twists. I then got her a +5 Cha tome at Mabar. Her self/ship buff Haggle is 116. I park her in Eveningstar near the bank and vendors. I took in my first haul tonight with all 100 slots of her backpack loaded. It was all just random lvl 20+ vendor trash. I banked 413,598pp. For me, the time I put into building a haggle bard seems worth it.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

This^^^^^^^

There is a few discussions on haggle bards and I know this is an old thread, but I thought the OPs question is still relevant even though most the responses are not. I just thought I'd share my haggle bard experience.
I built my haggle Bard years ago back when cap was 16. Last year I leveled her to 20. I recently acquired a ML 27 Charismatic +10 Ring of Haggling +20 and thought why not? I spent a couple of nights on the XP weekend running Impossible Demands, farming to level 27 and twists. I then got her a +5 Cha tome at Mabar. Her self/ship buff Haggle is 116. I park her in Eveningstar near the bank and vendors. I took in my first haul tonight with all 100 slots of her backpack loaded. It was all just random lvl 20+ vendor trash. I banked 413,598pp.

Nice goin!

It's a very different DDO then it was in 2008 when I first built my bard, Mississippee. However, she is still my most fun to play... I have made so many millions over the years, impossible to count. Totally a playable character, and the one who dies the least in my stable by a long shot (and this from someone who doesn't die much at all).

With so many game "currencies" and Cannith crafting, there is no need to have a haggle bard, but then again their never was. Im happy to be effective at something outside of the combat situations as well. The whole concept of the bard still is three dimensional. He/she fills the gaps between everyone elses' roles, boosts everyone's strengths and weaknesses, is the least understood, and get the least credit of all the classes in my opinion.

So how much haggle is worth it? To me, over 70- 90 haggle on a buffed up playable bard is perfect, and it can be done without spending any feats/enhancements on it. Go balls to the wall haggle if you are just going to park him of course. Bottom line, if you play a lot, and you buy things often, it's still totally worth it.

DDO bards are still awesome!

[xberto]

I know your a bard fan,:p as I've read on the missipp. But I hate playing a bard. OMG That 16-20 leveling was miserable. Thankfully the ID farming at lvl 20+ was bearable because I was mostly a door guy and just sang a few songs.

[samthedagger]

I once had a haggle bard, and it was worth every copper. My original concept was maximum haggle skill, but I eventually decided that I was gimping myself out of significant contributions for that luxury, plus it wasn't a lot of fun to play the character. So I TR'd her into a bardcher and now she is both an excellent support character and DPS. When I TR'd, I decided that I would focus first and foremost on DPS and support, and everything else would go into haggle. Her haggle score at level 28 is presently 100, fully buffed (nothing expensive like Yugo pots just spells, character abilities and ship buffs), and it is still worth it, even though I gave up about 12 points of haggle on the TR. I have a character that is fun to play, useful, and makes me a lot of extra plat. I have done the math on deconstruction, and it is actually more efficient for me to BUY greater essences at present market values than it is to deconstruct items.

Here is the issue with deconstruction, as I see it. The best items for decontruction, i.e. the ones that get you the most essences, are generally the items with only a single, high-power property, say a ring of resistance +6. Compare that to an item of the same minimum level, but with its enhancements split between deadly III and resistance +3. The latter item is pure vendor trash, while the former item is exceptionally valuable on the AH. I could probably sell it for 100k-200k, which is far more than I could get by deconstructing it. The latter item is a waste for deconstruction, because I have to choose between deconstructing the deadly III or the resistance +3 and neither property gives me as many essences as a ring of resistance +6. On the contrary, I could sell the deadly III ring of resistance +3 to a broker with my bard and get about 1k, which I could use to buy at least 5 greater essences, which is better than I could hope for from deconstruction. Occasionally you might find say, boots of jumping +11, which are vendor trash as well. These might be worth deconstruction, but I'd rather take the guaranteed plat than roll the dice on a random number of essences.

I think what it really comes down to is whether you enjoy playing a character who is built to be a secondary haggle toon. This can be done with either a rogue or a bard and either one does it well. But you get a little more bang for your buck with the bard since you want a high Charisma anyway. So if you enjoy leveling up a bard, have at it. I actually find them very fun to play, now that I understand them. I learned a lot about the class by doing two bard lives. It isn't very straightforward though and is a complex class to play well. But they are very useful in any party, and there are a number of ways to play them effectively.

[Phaeton_Seraph]

Once you pass through the Fatesinger ED, if it's not an ED that you're likely to need/use, reset the points and take Allure and invest the rest into Cha.

That and the core ED feats (or whatever we're supposed to call them) make it worth your while to switch to the Fatesinger ED when it comes time to do heavy shopping or selling.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

I know your a bard fan,:p as I've read on the missipp. But I hate playing a bard. OMG That 16-20 leveling was miserable. Thankfully the ID farming at lvl 20+ was bearable because I was mostly a door guy and just sang a few songs.

Yeah bards are definitely not for everybody. :) Theres lots of multi tasking and it takes a certain mindset. For Mississippee, I am in CC, support, and heal mode at all times. I can be sound asleep with my a$$ facing Pluto, but anything gets close to me it's going to dance school! Even though Miss for the most part is a defensive based bard, I am in constant motion, constantly boosting/healing my group, constantly controlling the action, in game and on the mic. Thats what makes a bard in DDO so good, it is so customizable, and you can just change the outcome of a battle with awesome subtle-ness.

That in a nutshell are the main reasons why I think so many love the bard class, and why some just cant stand them ;)

[Arnhelm]

I have a level 10 Bard. With build, gear, ship buffs, Greater Heroism (human build), and the Negotiator Feat, she maxes out around 62 Haggle.

She makes me a LOT of money selling to pawnbrokers in Deneith, Kundarak, and Marketplace. :)

[moomooprincess]

Xberto, I am that bard that is next to your bard at the broker's that is going through your trash to see if I consider any of it treasures!! But my bard is now cursing because my haggle is not even close to your haggle.

I like haggle bards when I go to a new server and I need to earn plat to buy junk. I find that once I reach level 10 I have more than enough plat and still too much junk. I am working on my hoarding addiction. I recently halted my efforts on Sarlona and I have gone back to work my characters on Cannith. I left Sarlona as a 10th level bard with over 1,000,000 plat.

I don't need the uberest gear to play the game. All you need is a competent healer, a competent trapper, and a competent killer in your party. I make do with what I find, and what I can buy off the AH(cheap) or the brokers.

Having a bard with a haggle of 116 is amazing, but when you have four characters with 4,000,000 plat already you will find that having more plat really does not matter. Now, if I could fling 1,000,000 plat as an insta killer on a red named raid boss, then maybe it is handy.

Congrats on your 116 haggle bard. Nice to know that I can increase my bards to that level.

[luvirini]

With the new enchantments bards are not the optimal haggle-bots anymore. My sorcerer based human haggle-bot currently has 124 haggle at level 24(with projected total haggle of about 140 at level 28), and can still solo EH content and contribute meaningfully in EE content.

All that with nothing special in gear or such. That 140 requires me to get +10 cha and +20 haggle items though, so might end up at about 136 only until I do.

[Phaeton_Seraph]

I like haggle bards when I go to a new server and I need to earn plat to buy junk. I find that once I reach level 10 I have more than enough plat and still too much junk. I am working on my hoarding addiction. I recently halted my efforts on Sarlona and I have gone back to work my characters on Cannith. I left Sarlona as a 10th level bard with over 1,000,000 plat.



For the purposes of travelling to new servers, Purple Dragon Bards begin to look really useful.

[zDragonz]

http://www.google.com/imgres?biw=824&bih=790&tbm=isch&tbnid=SZxDQS89U_V3FM:&imgrefurl=http://www.etsy.com/listing/59091430/how-fishermen-blow-their-own-minds-far&docid=f7nt0H-QNE_YtM&imgurl=http://img0.etsystatic.com/000/0/5983178/il_570xN.183726976.jpg&w=570&h=656&ei=I9t2UtGFFcnIsAT-2oGwBA&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:0,s:0,i:79&iact=rc&page=1&tbnh=198&tbnw=172&start=0&ndsp=14&tx=105&ty=124

The time you spend worrying about selling stuff is time you could be adventuring and might catch the big one (in a chest) that may be worth more than trying to hoard items to make a profit.

I just sell my stuff at a Tavern with GH cast, head of fortune equiped and a plus 15 haggle plus 6 charisma item on. No theatrics.

If I see something worth selling on the AH. I do, but to get it down to a science like this thread is speaking about, is less time adventuring and less opportunities to net a nice item in a chest.

[NaturalHazard]

I have a haggle bard, spell singer, cha based, level 23 haggle in the high 90's its an old character first life never tred. Its still fun, I could respec it to do way more dps and not hurt the DC's and haggleskill other stuff but im too lazy. But I was kind of shocked at how useful it could be in epics even EE's for CC's and support with the right party. I still use it to run through shrouds and dragons.

If i was going to make another haggle bard I would make it a PDK, :) and melee or even melee with manyshot option if I could fit all the feats/ ability points in, I guess be nice to have some higher level tomes, and if many shot a deeper fighter splash. Still be a pretty effective character with some dps/burst dps ranged, buffs, blur displacement, and CC's with the songs, Don't think the disco balls would be that good with a 4-6 or so fighter splash, and should have a high haggle.

The extra plats is nice if your addicted to yugo pots and are tr'ing.

Though to be honest if im running repeated quest on one guy I often just vendor to the ship bartender as i dont have time to use shared bank and swap or mail all that stuff, but its worth it if i got time. The lag from switching toons is a pain though cause you got to restart the whole game again, after a few swaps.

[xberto]

With the new enchantments bards are not the optimal haggle-bots anymore. My sorcerer based human haggle-bot currently has 124 haggle at level 24(with projected total haggle of about 140 at level 28), and can still solo EH content and contribute meaningfully in EE content.

All that with nothing special in gear or such. That 140 requires me to get +10 cha and +20 haggle items though, so might end up at about 136 only until I do.

Dang 140 is up there with no special gear. What is optimal? bard/sorc/rog 18/1/1 spit?

[luvirini]

Dang 140 is up there with no special gear. What is optimal? bard/sorc/rog 18/1/1 spit?

You need Human, a level of sorc(+6 enchant) and 2 levels of rogue(+3 enchant and allow 23 ranks in haggle as class skill and the +6 skill boost for second level of rogue). The third profession is optimally a monk(+4 enchant), but a fighter,druid or barbarian works pretty well to as third class(all +3 enchant).

If you want a 9th level spell you need to drop the second rogue level and just use the human +4 skill boost for a net -2.

Of course with a monk, if you take 3 levels, you can get the lightside finishing move for extra +2 and +1 more from monkey for a total of +3 higher, but that character is really then not very efficient for anything else likely.

But if you just care about haggle: 1 sorc, 2 rogue, 3 monk is the base.. with +14 levels in the classes of you choice.

[NaturalHazard]

You need Human, a level of sorc(+6 enchant) and 2 levels of rogue(+3 enchant and allow 23 ranks in haggle as class skill and the +6 skill boost for second level of rogue). The third profession is optimally a monk(+4 enchant), but a fighter,druid or barbarian works pretty well to as third class(all +3 enchant).

If you want a 9th level spell you need to drop the second rogue level and just use the human +4 skill boost for a net -2.

Of course with a monk, if you take 3 levels, you can get the lightside finishing move for extra +2 and +1 more from monkey for a total of +3 higher, but that character is really then not very efficient for anything else likely.

But if you just care about haggle: 1 sorc, 2 rogue, 3 monk is the base.. with +14 levels in the classes of you choice.

Would shadowkai work?

[xberto]

You need Human, a level of sorc(+6 enchant) and 2 levels of rogue(+3 enchant and allow 23 ranks in haggle as class skill and the +6 skill boost for second level of rogue). The third profession is optimally a monk(+4 enchant), but a fighter,druid or barbarian works pretty well to as third class(all +3 enchant).

If you want a 9th level spell you need to drop the second rogue level and just use the human +4 skill boost for a net -2.

Of course with a monk, if you take 3 levels, you can get the lightside finishing move for extra +2 and +1 more from monkey for a total of +3 higher, but that character is really then not very efficient for anything else likely.

But if you just care about haggle: 1 sorc, 2 rogue, 3 monk is the base.. with +14 levels in the classes of you choice.

Thanks, I see now....
How about 3 sorc (Intensity +6, +1Cha), 16 rouge(+6 skill boost and 3 tiers skill mastery for another +3), 1 Ftr (Countenance +3).

Monk move would be more + but how would that work? Would you make a finishing move without a target?

[luvirini]

Would shadowkai work?

Human is for greater heroism, skill focus and skill mastery.

[luvirini]

Thanks, I see now....
How about 3 sorc (Intensity +6, +1Cha), 16 rouge(+6 skill boost and 3 tiers skill mastery for another +3), 1 Ftr (Countenance +3).

Monk move would be more + but how would that work? Would you make a finishing move without a target?

You have to calculate what skill you get with it. The big problem with such build is that maximum cha does not do that much good for rogues.

You can do finishing moves just fine without a target, but building up a ki is a bit of a problem.

[Ivan_Milic]

Can someone make a new haggle build?

[xberto]

Can someone make a new haggle build?

Well there Is already the new lazy iconic, and the Mississippi is updated. What there is not is a max haggle build because that would be mostly unplayable. However that's what I'm kind of pursuing here.

[Ivan_Milic]

Well there Is already the new lazy iconic, and the Mississippi is updated. What there is not is a max haggle build because that would be mostly unplayable. However that's what I'm kind of pursuing here.

Thats basically what I want too, max haggle build, I have an alt that I dont even play, just use him for selling to vendors and with this 20 lr I can make him much better, currently he has 103 haggle.

[xberto]

Yup me too. Use the lr20 to turn my existing haggle bard into a max hagglebot. I'm thinking the 16 rog/3sorc/1ftr human with max cha. Just utilize the helpful enhancements.

You could blend monk for more but you'd need to generate ki and complete finishing moves for a 10 second buff

[Phaeton_Seraph]

http://www.google.com/imgres?biw=824&bih=790&tbm=isch&tbnid=SZxDQS89U_V3FM:&imgrefurl=http://www.etsy.com/listing/59091430/how-fishermen-blow-their-own-minds-far&docid=f7nt0H-QNE_YtM&imgurl=http://img0.etsystatic.com/000/0/5983178/il_570xN.183726976.jpg&w=570&h=656&ei=I9t2UtGFFcnIsAT-2oGwBA&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:0,s:0,i:79&iact=rc&page=1&tbnh=198&tbnw=172&start=0&ndsp=14&tx=105&ty=124

The time you spend worrying about selling stuff is time you could be adventuring and might catch the big one (in a chest) that may be worth more than trying to hoard items to make a profit.

I just sell my stuff at a Tavern with GH cast, head of fortune equiped and a plus 15 haggle plus 6 charisma item on. No theatrics.

If I see something worth selling on the AH. I do, but to get it down to a science like this thread is speaking about, is less time adventuring and less opportunities to net a nice item in a chest.

It's not just about selling. Have you ever bought a 100 stack or Resurrections scrolls?

I don't own a haggle bard, but using GH, and a +15 haggle and a +6 Cha item, in addition to switching my ED into a Cha/Haggle oriented Fatesinger, it saves quite a bit of plat.


And there's always down time because finding parties for the quests and raids that give items that you can sell for millions isn't often an instant sorta thing.

[Uska]

In my opinion, if you are going to go through all of the trouble of sending your loot to a character, you should send it to a crafter instead. Haggle bards are dead and crafting killed them. It really did not help that there are a hundred more effective ways to make plat in the game than selling trash to vendors.

What if you find crafting extremely boring in fact so boring that I would give up the internet rather than do it for 1 nano second. That said I dont bother sending all my stuff to my haggle bard to sell even though her haggle is pretty good.

[Coyopa]

Thats basically what I want too, max haggle build, I have an alt that I dont even play, just use him for selling to vendors and with this 20 lr I can make him much better, currently he has 103 haggle.

Haggle has been hard-capped at 100 for a few updates now. I forget exactly when, but it has been that way for a while.

[Ivan_Milic]

Haggle has been hard-capped at 100 for a few updates now. I forget exactly when, but it has been that way for a while.

So how do I get more than 100 haggle then and there is a difference between 100, and 103 haggle when selling?

[Forgeborn]

Haggle has been hard-capped at 100 for a few updates now. I forget exactly when, but it has been that way for a while.

This is, luckily, not true, however, there's a certain core of truth into it, in that haggle is indeed capped (or should be according to the U14 release notes (http://ddowiki.com/page/Update_14_Release_Notes#Shopping).

Haggle has indeed been hard capped, but at 50% of the base value of an item, both for buying, and selling, to prevent people that had maxed out haggle from buying items from shops, and then selling said items back to the shop for a profit. for brokers, this will be around 140 haggle for selling, and for most barkeepers it'll be around 160 haggle.

for breakdown: This is for a human, or half-elf, that has haggling as a class skill and goes maxed out charisma, certain class combinations would increase it
Charisma 72 pretty much perm when haggling, up to 82 if you care (~31)
18 Base
+7 Levelup (4, 8, 12, 16, 20, 24, 28)
+5 Tome
+2 Completionist
+10 Enhancement (+10 item)
+2 competence (epic bard song)
+3 insight
+2 Artifact (+2 Airship Charisma Shrine)
+6 fatesinger
+2 twisted charisma
+1 echoes of the ancestors: unyielding sentinel
+1 masked ball
+4 turn the tide
+1 glitter of fame
+1 exceptional
+3 action boosted cha
+4 enhancements, be they racial or class

*2 store pot
*2 Untyped (Essence of Seduction)
*3 alchem from stupid house d pots
*4 profane from destroyer buff (stupid to use, but possible)


Items (+34)
+20 Competence Item
+6 Exceptional (Green Steel Charisma skill item)
+4 Guild (Large Gem of Haggling)
+3 Luck (head of good fortune)
+1 profane (spider cult mask)


Character/destiny (+64)
+23 Ranks
+8 epic skill mastery autogrants
+6 allure
+5 epic skill focus: haggle
+4 human/h.elf skill boost
+3 Skill Focus : Haggle
+3 epic reputation
+3 negotiator (racial enhancement)
+2 Completionist
+2 Negotiator
+2 aura of grandeur
+1 Past Life: Bardic Dilettante
+1 Past Life: Sneak of Shadows
+1 twisted shadowdancer skill mastery (tier 2)


Buffs (+13)
+5 Enhancement (Dwarven Stoutness)
+4 Morale (Greater Heroism)
+1 Circumstance (Focusing Chant)
+3 Alchemical (Potion of Eagle's Skill +3)

Along the lines of never gonna happen (9)
+5 Insight (Moment of Clarity)
+2 Untyped (Walk of the Sun)
+2 Untyped (Inspire competence)
---
151, or 156 if you count the charisma boosts from the *'s


And even with this, I'm pretty sure I'm forgetting a lot (you can get at least another 10 points or so from class splits like 3 rogue/1 sorc/16 bard)