Streak effects on Clerics.

[jellyfish21]

It is now a very, very big drag to play a cleric what-so-ever because of the maddness of the Streak bonus. Something has to be done about it.

[Habreno]

Simple. Clerics can't be idiots.

[kclark1980]

The same could be said for the rest of the party also. If you want to do it on elite be willing to go at the pace of the cleric of run the risk of watching your stone spin around in a nice circle.

I play a cleric most of the time and let people know when I join that I am a methodical player and will not tolerate zergers or mass pulls. If they have a problem with it then they wait for another cleric and I go about my business. About half of the time after about 5-10 mins I get a tell from the person asking me to come heal and that they will go slow. I am more then happy to do it on elite I loved my streak also before I hit 20. If I need to use an SP pot then you are not doing your jobs as DPS or CC and I will make it well known but I always keep a few with me for just in case screw ups. They happen I got over it a long time ago.

I will say this also. If you are a cleric and want to do it on a lower difficulty then make your own LFM and set the difficulty you want to do it on.

[jellyfish21]

The current head count of players level 17 - 20 are thus:

Cleric 8
Paladin 20
Barbarian 18
Favored Soul 15
Artificer 12
Wizard 28
Fighters 31
Sorcerers 12
Rogues 36

Those are all single and multiclass characters.

Eight, eight, saying again, EIGHT clerics.

[jellyfish21]

Simple. Clerics can't be idiots.

Simple. Please stop calling people names. You infer the person playing the clerics are idiots. How terrible is that? The guys and gals that are the back-bone of every raid and successful elite group all need and deserve more respect than that.

[Habreno]

Simple. Please stop calling people names. You infer the person playing the clerics are idiots. How terrible is that? The guys and gals that are the back-bone of every raid and successful elite group all need and deserve more respect than that.

It's a 100% fact, one I know since my main *IS* a Cleric.


A Cleric that is an idiot will always be in trouble, sacraficing fun, plat, and even TP for this streak which they should not either have or use. If they cannot handle it, perfectly know this, and do it anyway, they are idiots.

Simple as that.


One that is not an idiot will not join groups that are trouble, have fun, experiences, and save their plat and TP for other purchases. They know what they can handle and while occasionally challenging themselves do not do things they know they simply cannot do.

[AtomicMew]

Wrong. Streak effect on clerics is the same as it is on every other class: awesome. Why would you think that streak has a negative effect on clerics? That's just ?????? No words.

[kclark1980]

I think s/he is worried about the people that get into Elite streaks and don't pay attention to what is happening in the group. Some people get into that *ugg smash* or *pew pew pew* and forget about anything else like trying to mitigate or offset the incoming damage that makes the healers life hard.

S/he is saying that as a cleric the elite streak that makes things harder is making it to hard for the clerics to keep up.

I think this goes into many Many MANY different problems not just the elite streak. We have poor AC scaling, monster with huge amounts of HP, groups of monsters that are to large to take on reasonably, damage from the front line not being up to elite quality, level range restrictions and the list goes on and on.

It's not just about the elite streak it's many of the mechanics that make the clerics life very difficult to go into elite streaks with out a group that they know and in return know the clerics play style.

[AtomicMew]

I think s/he is worried about the people that get into Elite streaks and don't pay attention to what is happening in the group. Some people get into that *ugg smash* or *pew pew pew* and forget about anything else like trying to mitigate or offset the incoming damage that makes the healers life hard.

S/he is saying that as a cleric the elite streak that makes things harder is making it to hard for the clerics to keep up.

I think this goes into many Many MANY different problems not just the elite streak. We have poor AC scaling, monster with huge amounts of HP, groups of monsters that are to large to take on reasonably, damage from the front line not being up to elite quality, level range restrictions and the list goes on and on.

It's not just about the elite streak it's many of the mechanics that make the clerics life very difficult to go into elite streaks with out a group that they know and in return know the clerics play style.

Then don't join groups like that. Make your own non-elite group. Solo for a change. Wow, so hard.

[Buggss]

Then don't join groups like that. Make your own non-elite group. Solo for a change. Wow, so hard.

Actually it can be, experience has shown that any group showing normal or hard in the lfm takes a lot longer to fill than those with elite or BB/TR friendly in the title. Of course you might get lucky but that luck seems to diminish rapidly the higher your level goes as many people are far less forgiving.

[morticianjohn]

The current head count of players level 17 - 20 are thus:

Cleric 8
Paladin 20
Barbarian 18
Favored Soul 15
Artificer 12
Wizard 28
Fighters 31
Sorcerers 12
Rogues 36

Those are all single and multiclass characters.

Eight, eight, saying again, EIGHT clerics.


0 monks, 0 bards and 36 rogues what am I missing here this can not be accurate?

My guess is that you a.) forgot to include monks and b.) counted all multiclass characters once for each class

both of these things will skew the results of your findings not to mention the fact that you have such a small sample size (one snapshot during one minute doesn't tell the full story). Also these numbers suggest that 13% of those online are playing a heal capable toon (180 listed, 15 FvS and 8 clerics). That is at least one for every raid party (possibly two) which is frequently enough for things like normal shroud, etc...

In addition from many forum posts that I've read people like to go annon on their healers so they don't get tells so of those online who you can't see a higher percentage of those are going to be healers.

If you aren't doing elite for bravery then a hireling will be sufficient anyway so no need for a healer in my experience. What I've done the past few lives is cut off elite bravery after doing all of the vale quests once on elite and then I have no need to wait for a healer to fill my parties because the hirelings can handle anything below elite.

[axel15810]

I find that streak benefits divines more than any other class because they are so wanted in groups...you can get into any LFM you want almost. So that makes it easy to streak all your quests.

[jellyfish21]

Thanks everyone for replying. I especially wanted to thank Clark.

I guess the old ways of joining a party is not going to work. I'll have to be more thoughtful of the party make-up. I used to not worry about it. Maybe that will help the issue. If I perceive a lower power in the party, I'll have to be forth-coming to request a choice in a lower difficulty quest setting.

Perhaps some type of game wide education would help those of lesser power to select a more reasonable difficulty setting.

[PopeJual]

Actually it can be, experience has shown that any group showing normal or hard in the lfm takes a lot longer to fill than those with elite or BB/TR friendly in the title. Of course you might get lucky but that luck seems to diminish rapidly the higher your level goes as many people are far less forgiving.

On Normal or Hard, just put up an "IP" LFM and then jump into the quest and start. If someone joins before you finish, that's great. If not, then you get to do the quest more easily because of dungeon scaling.

Also, I don't see how Elite quests are harder for Clerics than for any other class. Heal what you can. CC what you can. Fight as best you can. Don't use up wands and pots unless you decide that you want to do so. If the rest of the party takes more damage than you can heal, then they will die. That's okay. It's not your job to fix their problems - just support them as best you can and do your own thing as best you can at the same time.

[weedf16]

I find that most of the elite pugs I put together are highly capable (G-land). However, I usually put 'byoh' or 'be self-sufficient' in the LFM. This tends to attract TRs and highly capable players. If we get a healer...bonus. Most of the time, I find we can finish the quest even with no healers at all.

[sirgog]

Then don't join groups like that. Make your own non-elite group. Solo for a change. Wow, so hard.

This. And if anyone joins and tries to hijack the group into doing elite, tell them "sorry, if you are too stupid to read an LFM that clearly says 'Normal' then you are obviously too stupid to run a quest on Elite".

[sweez]

The current head count of players level 17 - 20 are thus:

Cleric 8
Paladin 20
Barbarian 18
Favored Soul 15
Artificer 12
Wizard 28
Fighters 31
Sorcerers 12
Rogues 36

Those are all single and multiclass characters.

Eight, eight, saying again, EIGHT clerics.

So, what about those 50 anon clerics?

[kclark1980]

This. And if anyone joins and tries to hijack the group into doing elite, tell them "sorry, if you are too stupid to read an LFM that clearly says 'Normal' then you are obviously too stupid to run a quest on Elite".

This is very true as the group leader you can remove them as / if you want before you start the quest. If they jump into the quest on elite before anyone else just let everyone know that you are going to drop group and reform again for a normal/hard run as you had planned and the guy in the quest can stew on it for being a schmuck and trying to hijack.

It's not something I have had to do very often most people are just happy to see a cleric starting a party and will jump on it knowing that their rumps are being covered. Yes it does take longer then the "OMG ELITE XP NOW!" but piece of mind and enjoyment of the game is all in how you play. Let them do it their way and you can be happy and comfortable your way.

[sirgog]

This is very true as the group leader you can remove them as / if you want before you start the quest. If they jump into the quest on elite before anyone else just let everyone know that you are going to drop group and reform again for a normal/hard run as you had planned and the guy in the quest can stew on it for being a schmuck and trying to hijack.

It's not something I have had to do very often most people are just happy to see a cleric starting a party and will jump on it knowing that their rumps are being covered. Yes it does take longer then the "OMG ELITE XP NOW!" but piece of mind and enjoyment of the game is all in how you play. Let them do it their way and you can be happy and comfortable your way.

Except in the very best groups, Hard streaking is a much faster way to level from 16 or so to cap than Elite streaking anyway, as mobs die so much faster that completion times go down more than XP. Especially when mobs can just be ignored on Norm/Hard but are too deadly to skip on Elite.

[DarkForte]

For one of the last toons I leveled, I dropped to hard streak at about orchard, since our group had kind of become fed up with the stress of zerging elite quests. Never had a problem with XP doing that, neither had my partners, all on 3rd life TRs. If your resources do not allow you to carry people through elite runs, try hard streak. The difference isn't that big in the end (you are obviously going to have a harder time filling though)

[justagame]

The impact on clerics is due mostly to groups now thinking "elite or bust", without any regard to whether they can handle at elite given their level/experience/gear. I've seen more "XXX elite, guide needed" lfms in the past month then ever before. I guess the idea is that it doesn't matter if the content is over your head, a healer will get you through it.

Simple. Avoid these groups. Or suggest that you'll join them for a normal or hard run instead. Some groups are up to elite, other's aren't even close. If truly want a healer, they may say yes. If they say no and insist on elite, you know what you need to know. No one can make you blow through tons of resources on groups playing way over their heads, except you.

[sirgog]

For one of the last toons I leveled, I dropped to hard streak at about orchard, since our group had kind of become fed up with the stress of zerging elite quests. Never had a problem with XP doing that, neither had my partners, all on 3rd life TRs. If your resources do not allow you to carry people through elite runs, try hard streak. The difference isn't that big in the end (you are obviously going to have a harder time filling though)

I love watching the LFM panel when PUGs fail notoriously difficult elite quests because they are too stubborn and too stupid to drop streak for Enter the Kobold, Monastery of the Scorpion or Servants of the Overlord. Or worse, Acute Delerium or In The Flesh.

Often an hour later they are still in there with (almost) no XP to show for it while I've soloed four Hard quests and am on to my fifth and have 100k XP for the hour's zerging. And all it cost me was a streak that at most was going to be worth 20k over the next five quests.

[Jsbeer]

I love watching the LFM panel when PUGs fail notoriously difficult elite quests because they are too stubborn and too stupid to drop streak for Enter the Kobold, Monastery of the Scorpion or Servants of the Overlord. Or worse, Acute Delerium or In The Flesh..

Slightly off-topic, I am getting curious because I have have seen many people mention Elite Acute Delirium as begin especially difficult, but I have never had the slightest problem running untwinked First Life characters through it in a group on Elite. As I have found that all the other quest can be nightmares, especially In The Flesh, I was wondering if this was because I have been lucky or because Elite Acute Delirium is actually one of the 'easier' of the difficult quests......

[morticianjohn]

Slightly off-topic, I am getting curious because I have have seen many people mention Elite Acute Delirium as begin especially difficult, but I have never had the slightest problem running untwinked First Life characters through it in a group on Elite. As I have found that all the other quest can be nightmares, especially In The Flesh, I was wondering if this was because I have been lucky or because Elite Acute Delirium is actually one of the 'easier' of the difficult quests......

Acute Delirium is easy on elite in a full group. The people who complain about the difficulty of that quest on elite are the soloists. It is more difficult to solo than many epics.

In the flesh on elite is always the first one that people complain about. If you try for BB bonus on this quest I wish you the best of luck. I personally don't have the pack otherwise I'd join you just for the challenge. I enjoy that one but I understand why people think it's so challenging.

[PopeJual]

Acute Delerium is easy on Elite with a full party of people who actually work together as a team.

For full groups who wander all over the place and aggro everything that they can find without having any support, it's very difficult.

[varusso]

The effect of elite streak on clerics is no different than it is on any other toon -- which is to say no different than before BB, when players were ALREADY running elite on a regular basis -- and when there were already plenty of idjits who tried to push groups to do the quest beyond their ability to handle. One of the things I HATE most of all in the pug scene is the bait and switch of quest difficulties -- posted at norm or hard, then the PL enters on elite without a word, or some random doorknob starts lobbying for it after they join.

This was MUCH more frequent before BB. Now, its up front, in the the LFM, that they plan on doing elite, and I can choose to join or not, without wasting my time. If I join a norm run, its because I want to do a norm run. I am not in the mood for the extra challenge, or I already sacked it on that difficulty and want the first time bonus from another dif.

Stupid players are stupid players, regardless of game mechanics. If you are in a group with stupid players, drop group and do something else. Nothing about that has changed. And in any case, if a group "needs a healer", then you may want to rethink that group anyway (for most quests).

[Bacab]

I love watching the LFM panel when PUGs fail notoriously difficult elite quests because they are too stubborn and too stupid to drop streak for Enter the Kobold, Monastery of the Scorpion or Servants of the Overlord. Or worse, Acute Delerium or In The Flesh.

Often an hour later they are still in there with (almost) no XP to show for it while I've soloed four Hard quests and am on to my fifth and have 100k XP for the hour's zerging. And all it cost me was a streak that at most was going to be worth 20k over the next five quests.

This is true...partially...

The main reason people will not break the elite streak is...E PEEN.

Notice a guy like Sirgog is CONFIDENT in his abilities so he does not need some stupid high streak number so people know he's a good player.

Most slightly above average players want that huge elite streak number. They want to brag about having a streak of 565 rather than 130 (or whatever arbitrary number I pick). As "proof" of their uberness.

This is obviously a YMMV type thing...but don't be afraid to drop down to elite streak for XP.

If your goal is to get EXPERIENCE POINTS...sometimes Hard is the best/fastest way to go.

Some quest can be cake on elite...some are ridiculously rough.

I solo my Arcanes to 20 on Elite Streaks, but that's pretty easy (for basically any blue bar that has a Torc and concord opp sources). When on a 'less powerful class" such as Bard...I would just join whatever was running at that time...or do slayers.

I am doing a Cleric life now, and I will NOT be carrying a PUG through elite quests.

I will either...
*Join friends
*Solo
*Do quests that are easy

Carrying a 50% healing Amp WF barb through sins of attrition is not fun...
Carrying 25% Fortification 200 HP ROG through Bastion is not fun...

[Sarzor]

I love watching the LFM panel when PUGs fail notoriously difficult elite quests because they are too stubborn and too stupid to drop streak for Enter the Kobold, Monastery of the Scorpion or Servants of the Overlord. Or worse, Acute Delerium or In The Flesh.

Neither here nor there, but this life I have done elite Servants, Kobold, Mired with momma, and Dreaming Dark at level, and had more fun than the quests I've been breezing through. 3rd life twinked PM made me feel too godlike elsewhere, and the challenge was quite fun. Mind you, these were with good groups, and with weaker PUGs would have been a horrid experience.

[Mubjon]

The elite streak is just giving those that have no business to do elite a reason to attempt it. Usually they can at least attempt it and depending on builds or equipment they have it is no issue.

Generally I can tell by the first battle if the party can handle the content. If the Barb runs off with the fighter and just about dies I will tell them that they should stick with me if they wish to survive the quest. If there is a trap coming up I will mention it so that the rogue or arti in the group (if they have one) can get ready to find the trap. If the Barb, fighter, arcane. rogue/arti or paladin decides to just run through great, die and you get a ride to the shrine not bothering to raise someone that did not take the warning.

But, then I have played cleric enough to know that not everyone is able to complete the quest on elite. As well I have noticed that they will set the level at 5 for a level 7 quest, which would be level 9 on elite, and have few level 6 or even 5 sitting there waiting for a divine to step in. Those parties I avoid like the plague.

[jellyfish21]

I am on my fourth TR, now a level 16 bard. His highest streak was less than five.

[Maxallu]

Who needs clerics anyways? I can't stand those LFMs just sitting there waiting and waiting for a cleric. Buy some pots, get stuff done. Clerics are not necessary for a vast majority of content.

[Delt]

Play with better people or get better yourself.

Divines stomp content easier than most.

[Mubjon]

Who needs clerics anyways? I can't stand those LFMs just sitting there waiting and waiting for a cleric. Buy some pots, get stuff done. Clerics are not necessary for a vast majority of content.

I have done quite a few quests without a healer at all on my other characters. Of course the parties were with people that seemed to know enough to bring all the stuff they would need to take care of the quest.

That is a hard thing to come by most nights in the pug scene.

[varusso]

I have done quite a few quests without a healer at all on my other characters. Of course the parties were with people that seemed to know enough to bring all the stuff they would need to take care of the quest.

That is a hard thing to come by most nights in the pug scene.

Not on Argo.

[good_ole_corwin]

Ive got to vouch for Thelanis too, if yous set up a BYOH lfm, you tend to get people that are BYOH-ready. Of course not a 100% of the time, but I wouldnt call it hard to come by.

[Citzen_Gkar]

The current head count of players level 17 - 20 are thus:

Cleric 8
Paladin 20
Barbarian 18
Favored Soul 15
Artificer 12
Wizard 28
Fighters 31
Sorcerers 12
Rogues 36

Those are all single and multiclass characters.

Eight, eight, saying again, EIGHT clerics.

And how are you getting that count? Let me guess, the who list? Most clerics & fvs go on anon to avoid idiots sending them blind tells and blind invites.

[DanteEnFuego]

My Cleric is very offended by streaking. For the love of all things decent and good, it must be stopped. And crafted starter rags aren't much better... And for he lisping bard on Thelanis, I don't want to group hug for thongs...

Oh, and BB is for our Blade Barriers, not your tomfoolery.

/tongue in cheek off

Oh wait, that offends me too...

[jellyfish21]

I say 'newer player' to those new to the game. Noob has many negative connotations to many people. I know about most of these guys and girls on the forums. Most are not, in any way, new player friendly. BYOH messages are for both experienced and for those with excellent gear: both are needed for these parties.

I have five friends come to this game. Each is very experienced with MMOs. They all agree that this game is not a solo game. They also have an understanding that, almost always, parties are unable to take on a new person. Therefore, they left, not quit, but left.

I hold fast to my original opinion in my original post. I party with newer folk all the time. I am the guy who guide someone lost in the harbor, looking for waterworks. I leave dungeons to find lost folk, then come back into the dungeon (including on my x4 TR). People, newish friendly, understand.

Elite quests are the mean. If we want our game to be fruitful, we must cater to newer folk, or die. That is the reason of my original post.

If a new cleric joins an elite party, he will leave the game.

[sirgog]

I say 'newer player' to those new to the game. Noob has many negative connotations to many people. I know about most of these guys and girls on the forums. Most are not, in any way, new player friendly. BYOH messages are for both experienced and for those with excellent gear: both are needed for these parties.

I have five friends come to this game. Each is very experienced with MMOs. They all agree that this game is not a solo game. They also have an understanding that, almost always, parties are unable to take on a new person. Therefore, they left, not quit, but left.

I hold fast to my original opinion in my original post. I party with newer folk all the time. I am the guy who guide someone lost in the harbor, looking for waterworks. I leave dungeons to find lost folk, then come back into the dungeon (including on my x4 TR). People, newish friendly, understand.

Elite quests are the mean. If we want our game to be fruitful, we must cater to newer folk, or die. That is the reason of my original post.

If a new cleric joins an elite party, he will leave the game.

Hence the really clear warning "Elite is intended for veteran parties seeking a challenge".

Reality is nothing like that anyway. Elite difficulty caters to either the newer player that takes quests slowly and carefully, or the veteran that is skilled at zerging. There's only a very few quests in the game that are genuinely hard on elite.

[Mubjon]

I say 'newer player' to those new to the game. Noob has many negative connotations to many people. I know about most of these guys and girls on the forums. Most are not, in any way, new player friendly. BYOH messages are for both experienced and for those with excellent gear: both are needed for these parties.

I have five friends come to this game. Each is very experienced with MMOs. They all agree that this game is not a solo game. They also have an understanding that, almost always, parties are unable to take on a new person. Therefore, they left, not quit, but left.

I hold fast to my original opinion in my original post. I party with newer folk all the time. I am the guy who guide someone lost in the harbor, looking for waterworks. I leave dungeons to find lost folk, then come back into the dungeon (including on my x4 TR). People, newish friendly, understand.

Elite quests are the mean. If we want our game to be fruitful, we must cater to newer folk, or die. That is the reason of my original post.

If a new cleric joins an elite party, he will leave the game.

I am not sure how long they gave, but I have played this game for almost 3 years now and I have never had a problem with getting a character into any pug at any level. Even characters started on new servers that I have not really been on much as I normally play my home server the most.

[phalaeo]

I rarely pug Clerics any more until the higher levels. My partner and I have hit 60+ on our Hard TR streak and it's been XPlicious. Then again, he takes care of himself, and I take care of myself.

TBH, I give one warning while low-level pugging. I tell them they need to slow down and/or contribute resources as I don't like Clericing where I am cleaning up other's messes.
Be nice but firm.

If they give you ****, that's what Word of Recall is for. Hit it, drop group, and go in and solo it.