First-time Cleric. Need simple build advice.

[mechawhat]

So I'm going for a basic pure human Cleric. Nothing fancy, no multi-classing. Just a good old-fashioned healbot.

This is what I've come up with so far and I think it seems to line up.

BUILD UPDATED


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(20 Cleric)
Hit Points: 282
Spell Points: 1786
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 6
Will: 21

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Strength 8 10 10
Dexterity 8 10 10
Constitution 14 16 16
Intelligence 8 10 10
Wisdom 18 24 28
Charisma 14 15 18

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 11

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Balance -1 6 6
Bluff 2 4 4
Concentration 6 26 26
Diplomacy 2 4 4
Disable Device n/a n/a n/a
Haggle 2 4 4
Heal 4 9 11
Hide -1 0 0
Intimidate 2 4 4
Jump -1 0 0
Listen 4 9 9
Move Silently -1 0 0
Open Lock n/a n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a n/a
Repair -1 0 0
Search -1 0 0
Spot 4 9 9
Swim -1 0 0
Tumble n/a 1 1
Use Magic Device 4 15 15

Level 1 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Empower Healing Spell
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Magical Training
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Turn Undead


Level 2 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip


Level 3 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Extra Turning


Level 4 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 5 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 7 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 8 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 9 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell


Level 10 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 11 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 13 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 14 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 15 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness OR Shield Mastery


Level 16 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 17 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Mental Toughness OR Improved Shield Mastery


Level 19 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 20 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Intervention
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Wisdom I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Charisma I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Empower Healing I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Heal I
Enhancement: Improved Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot III
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot IV
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma I
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom III
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality II
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality III
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning II
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning III
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning IV
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I




I've heard Clerics are hard to mess up, but I thought I'd get a second opinion before proceeding.

[Jsbeer]

Balance and Concentration are good skills, but Heal (is ironically) useless as it only gives a very small amount of extra healing when you shrine. I'd suggest UMD as you have a decent Charisma and being able to use arcane spells such as fire-shield is very useful. Also just 2 points (so one rank) in Tumble at the start can be useful.

Personally in order of priority I'd max Balance (a cleric unable to cast due to being tripped is useless), UMD (as you really want 11 ranks in this to get access to decent arcane spells), and then Concentration.

From your Feat selection I see two Toughness, Improved turning, Mental Toughness and Improved Mental Toughness, but no Quicken. Quicken is essential for endgame healing where you can take 100+ damage at once, and Improved Turning is by end game pretty useless, so I would swap those two.

If you are going for just a pure healbot everything else is fine. But if you want to CC you will need the Heighten Feat too, and personally I would say the second Toughness Feat isn't necessary so would swap those two. Finally Mental Toughness and Improved Mental Toughness will increase your spell points but not by a great amount. Swapping them both for SF: Evocation/GSF: Evocation or Spell Penetration/Greater Spell Penetration might be an idea if you want to use Blade Barriers or instant kill spells respectively.

[morticianjohn]

Clerics are hard to screw up. One way to do it is to pass on quicken. There aren't that many situations in the game where it's absolutely mandatory (such as epic VON 6) but IMO it is a must have especially if you are kinda new and don't really know what damage to expect in a given quest and/or haven't gotten a concentration score over 50.

As far as your feats go they all lend toward the healbot playstyle but some things that many people (including myself) would criticize is

Mental toughness
improved mental toughness
extra turning
toughness #2

The first toughness is understandable as it translates to ~40-60 additional HP depending on your class. The second toughness feat is ~20 HP.

mental toughness and improved mental toughness are nice to have and if you don't want to do anything other than heal I guess I can't think of any feats that would fit better here however, with this build maxing wisdom many people will tell you (and rightfully so) that you can often save mana by casting offensive spells to control the enemy rather than healing spells. Heighten and a spell focus feat would better work towards that end. A cleric's mana bar is only 2200-2400 even with these two feats and a ton of SP gear which is about 1k less than an equally geared FvS. IMO if you want more SP choose a different class rather than these two feats

extra turning is great during the leveling process. It can be nice on a healbot (like getting 4 extra mass cures per rest) however, when I had a cleric he had 10 base charisma and I generally didn't have a problem with running out of turns. There were times when I'd run out but if you do run out of your 12-16 turns I think it's generally a problem that 4 extra turns won't fix.

In addition (I didn't really want to touch on this but since it's a huge factor I will) with the existance of Major mana pots losing out on those 3 feats will not cost you the ability to heal anything. It will only cost you the plat to buy more mana pots (this is not a good way to plan. I'm merely mentioning it to say that dropping these feats to make a more versatile toon will not make you less of a healer)

What you can gain from swapping these feats could be Casting DC, or survivability. One feat that I like on my healers is sheild mastery. -20% to all incoming damage is generally a better selection than another toughness or something like that.

[mechawhat]

The things you guys mentioned were sort of already in the back of my mind when planning. Like I knew I was probably getting UMD and tumble (I realize heal is useless as shrines already give enough health back), and I know the second Toughness feat is wasted, it was mainly just a placeholder for whatever I decided to put in it that I felt was more useful (maybe even quicken which I never considered).

When would be a good opportunity to get quicken anyways?

I do like my mental/ improved mental toughness though just for that extra staying power in addition to whatever mana potions I'll be packing as well. I also like my extra turning as, other than pure mana pool, this build is focused on using turns for utility (like divine vitality or other clickable feats/enhancements). Although I'll be regenerating them over time, having a truck load of them allows me to stockpile them for emergencies which I feel is what a Cleric is supposed to be able to handle. The goal was originally to essentially be a walking fountain of youth or something of the like.

[Bart_D]

Quicken is mentioned but where is Empower Healing? It's a prereq for the Radiant Servant prestige... missing it might constitute screwing up your cleric :)

Personally, I'd either prop that 18 wisdom up with SF/SpellPen feats or lower it a bit to get some buid points free for strength for melee. I think you'll enjoy better spellcasting more.

[Pape_27]

The first thing that jumps off the page - as it has been mentioned before - You need quicken. It is a must have.

The order of your feats seems rather out of whack as well. The first two feats taken should be Empower Healing and then Toughness. Maximize is a great feat, but taken at level 1 its practically worthless because of its cost. Take it later on in the build, say around 12 or 15.

One Toughness = Good. The second toughness feat= wasted feat imo. You only get 20 extra hp from the second feat. And, because of the way it stacks, if you ever decide you want to change one toughness feat out with Fred, you lose both. The second one is not worth the cost.

Mental Toughness - Fine, gives a nice little bump to the sp pool. However, the Improved mental toughness feat just does the same thing. Two feats for 210 sp is a steep price to pay. Consider losing on or even both.

Heal skill is not worth it. Do not bother with it.

Another thing to consider would be to take 2 points off of charisma and start at 12. Add the extra build points into strength. Starting at an 8 strength, its very easy to be come encumbered and even helpless if you get hit by a few str sapping effects. While it doesnt seem like a big difference, having a little extra strength will help.

The only other thing I would add is to look at the Radiant Servant pre and make sure you take all the qualifiers as soon as possible so when you hit level 7 the Burst is available.

good luck with it!

[mechawhat]

Quicken is mentioned but where is Empower Healing? It's a prereq for the Radiant Servant prestige... missing it might constitute screwing up your cleric :)

Personally, I'd either prop that 18 wisdom up with SF/SpellPen feats or lower it a bit to get some buid points free for strength for melee. I think you'll enjoy better spellcasting more.

Empower Healing is in there. I have both Radient Servants. And this build is not focused on melee or damage. As mentioned it is a healbot focused on basically propping up everything else other than itself.

Here is the refurbished build. I pushed back mental/improved mental toughness in favor of getting quicken spell and toughness earlier to ensure I don't meet an ill fate and doom my party at a critical moment.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(20 Cleric)
Hit Points: 282
Spell Points: 1786
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 6
Will: 21

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Strength 8 10 10
Dexterity 8 10 10
Constitution 14 16 16
Intelligence 8 10 10
Wisdom 18 24 28
Charisma 14 15 18

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 11

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Balance -1 6 6
Bluff 2 4 4
Concentration 6 26 26
Diplomacy 2 4 4
Disable Device n/a n/a n/a
Haggle 2 4 4
Heal 4 9 11
Hide -1 0 0
Intimidate 2 4 4
Jump -1 0 0
Listen 4 9 9
Move Silently -1 0 0
Open Lock n/a n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a n/a
Repair -1 0 0
Search -1 0 0
Spot 4 9 9
Swim -1 0 0
Tumble n/a 1 1
Use Magic Device 4 15 15

Level 1 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Empower Healing Spell
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Magical Training
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Turn Undead


Level 2 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip


Level 3 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Extra Turning


Level 4 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 5 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 7 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 8 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 9 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell


Level 10 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 11 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 13 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 14 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 15 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness


Level 16 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 17 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Mental Toughness


Level 19 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 20 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Intervention
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Wisdom I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Charisma I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Empower Healing I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Heal I
Enhancement: Improved Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot III
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot IV
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma I
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom III
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality II
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality III
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning II
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning III
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning IV
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I

[morticianjohn]

The things you guys mentioned were sort of already in the back of my mind when planning. Like I knew I was probably getting UMD and tumble (I realize heal is useless as shrines already give enough health back), and I know the second Toughness feat is wasted, it was mainly just a placeholder for whatever I decided to put in it that I felt was more useful (maybe even quicken which I never considered).

When would be a good opportunity to get quicken anyways?

I do like my mental/ improved mental toughness though just for that extra staying power in addition to whatever mana potions I'll be packing as well. I also like my extra turning as, other than pure mana pool, this build is focused on using turns for utility (like divine vitality or other clickable feats/enhancements). Although I'll be regenerating them over time, having a truck load of them allows me to stockpile them for emergencies which I feel is what a Cleric is supposed to be able to handle. The goal was originally to essentially be a walking fountain of youth or something of the like.

Extra turning is great early on. I would plan on swapping it out at 20 just to play around with some other options and if you want it back just make sure you have the flawless dragonshard to do it. You get a free feat swap from lockania in the market and a flawless dragonshard from argonessen favor so you could easily test out some other option once you get to level 20. Quicken is nice to have for a new player at level 12 IMO. Don't turn it on all the time but if you come to a quest where you're having trouble with your concentration checks then turn it on. If you test it out like this you'll get a feel for what your concentration can handle. The quest for me that I couldn't handle without quicken started in Gianthold Tor.

Also on your feat progression I like taking toughness at level 1 or level 3. This opens up your toughness enhancements so while at level 3 it's only 3 HP, it's actually 13 and 26 at level 6 due to toughness enhancements. That is a significant amount of HP at those levels which is why I like to take toughness early. Here is what I would do if you feel those feats are what will suit you best.

1 empower healing
Human bonus toughness
3 extra turning
6 maximize
9 empower (there is hardly anything to use maximize and empower on before these levels anyway)
12 quicken
15 mental toughness
18 improved mental toughness

Then at level 20 swap extra turning for shield mastery IMO.

[mechawhat]

...

Right now I have quicken sitting at level 3 and extra turning at 12. I guess I could swap those around if quicken isn't required that early (hopefully not. I never noticed how much the clerics I've partied with at these levels were pumping out, so I can't say for sure.) Extra turning looks oh so nice anyways.

If I feel like it though, I could get rid of mental/improved mental toughness in favor of shield /improved shield mastery. But I plan to keep extra turning no matter what, because it just sounds too good IMO.

[axel15810]

I'd encourage you to build a caster cleric focused on high DCs instead of a healbot. Caster clerics have around 95% of the healing ability of a healbot but can also throw CC and use spells like destruction, implosion and dish out good boss damage with DP. You could do this by working in feats like spell pen and greater spell pen and taking smiting and spell pen enhancement lines. Really no functional reason to go healbot. And believe me you don't need anywhere near 2400 sp to heal raids. Even as low as 1700 sp is enough.

Also I'd definitely take toughness on lvl 1 to unlock racial toughness enhancements. And you can push back Maximize and Empower healing. They are too expensive to be used at early levels. And like others said definitely take quicken.

[mechawhat]

I've since updated my planned build. I need some feedback on that one and not the original.

Also as I've already mentioned, this is my first cleric. I'd like to focus on just getting healing down for my first time around and if I still have my sanity by the time I ever manage to get to the point where TR is an option, then I'll consider opening up to a more offensive-y support-y Cleric.

But first time, healbot, no exceptions.

[morticianjohn]

Right now I have quicken sitting at level 3 and extra turning at 12. I guess I could swap those around if quicken isn't required that early (hopefully not. I never noticed how much the clerics I've partied with at these levels were pumping out, so I can't say for sure.) Extra turning looks oh so nice anyways.

If I feel like it though, I could get rid of mental/improved mental toughness in favor of shield /improved shield mastery. But I plan to keep extra turning no matter what, because it just sounds too good IMO.

A couple of things to consider about quicken

1st your radiant burst does not offer a concentration check and so if that is your primary mass cure (it will be from lvl 6 to level 12) having more of those is greater than having uninterrupted cures.

2nd you're maxing concentration at each level up and in many cases the incoming damage will not be enough to interrupt your spells anyway.

3rd your spells are quickly cast. There are no lengthy casting duration and since you're not likely to be locked in melee battle with the foe (although you should be near the melee to make good use out of your bursts) the chances of you taking damage at the exact second you cast your cure is pretty slim.

4th the incoming damage relative to the HP of your party members means that you're likely going to have time to throw a second cure before the party member dies if you happen to fail a concentration check

These reasons are why I can say without reservation that you should not need quicken prior to level 12. In addition if you use an item slot to boost your concentration score you can probably wait until level 15 before you start seeing a lot of interrupted spells. Even then if you never cast an offensive spell and never have aggro (and never cast mass heal) you could probably survive without the quicken feat. However, mass heal is your best healing spell and so quicken is very important for an endgame healer IMO

[mechawhat]

...

Sounds good. Thanks John. You've been a big help to me today.

I think I have the confidence to move forward with this build now.

[Mubjon]

Some great advice here and while you say you want to heal bot, you can do that without mental toughness and improved mental toughness. Why do I say that? Because my first cleric to cap was a 28 pt build with maxed wisdom basically and some in strength and con and I did not have a single issue ever with healing and was able to solo heal raids if needed. You will learn how to play the cleric role and will learn that those two feats are not needed. I swapped them out around 15 because I just did not need the extra sp and it was much better to comet fall or greater command to take control of a situation.

With you stats you can heal just fine and at level 20 with 18 base wisdom, plus level ups, plus enhancements, plus equipment (shroud items to give +3, SP cloak) I had just under 2200 sp. I think I was at 2150 ish without the mental toughness and improved mental toughness. It was plenty with using mostly mass heals and heals in between with scrolls of heal to help conserve mana.

What I found at around level 15 is that if i cast a comet fall and knocked down half of the mobs in the pack and the arcane did some CC as well I did not have to cast as much til I hit the boss. Couple with the fact that I had almost 500 hp I could get in with the melee's when needed and hit a burst to help conserve mana most times or have the aura running where the arcanes and range would stand near by to be healed over time. I did end up with around 14 turns if I remember right at cap.

My feats were as follow

1) Toughness
HB) Empower healing - can use for free on burst

3) Maximize - can use for free on burst

6) Empower - can use for free on burst

9) Quicken - for bursting to make it much quicker when the damage starts to ramp up mid levels

12) SF: Evocation - for blade barrier and implosion

15) Exotic proficency bastard sword - I wanted to use a shield and I have always used bastard swords playing D&D

18) Heighten - for Comet fall, hold monster, hold person sound burst etc

Now out of those you could change out the exotic prof. For either Spell pen to help with the implosion (it is fun to watch things turn inside out basically) or mental toughness if you want the extra SP. GSF Evocation to help blade barrier and implosion DC (although you need spell pen too for implosion).

I would take the spell pen enhancements as well so that you can increase the chance of implosion going off.

Low levels from 1 to 11 you will learn how to heal a party and keep them up. Remember that while you can get the aliment spells like neutralize poison, remove curse, remove disease, lesser restore etc. It is best if the party get those things in pots. So that you can have space for buffs and other useful spells to help you mitigate having to cast cure or heal spells.

Use the burst to cure things like negative levels and stat damage. It will remove 1 to 4 levels and 1 to 4 stat damage with each burst. It regenerates every 2 minutes and does not cost mana and it will heal them if they are down on health.

The truth is that as a cleric you are equipped to heal no matter what, but you do have other spells to help you do that without actually casting a cure spell. Running through the low levels a well placed sound burst with your wisdom score will stun lots of kobolds, hobgoblins etc.

[jbleargh]

Heighten is nice to have. When there is no arcane or soloing is useful to have CC spells that target different saves.

Soundburst is fortitude
Great command and Holy Smite is will
Comet fall is reflex (but is a conjuration spell)

If you keep maxing concentration you really need Quicken only when you get Mass Heal (very very very long cast time without quicken).

I keep regular heal and cures with and without quicken in my toolbars... I rarely use the quicked ones.

I've also got focus and great focus evocation and dumped Spell Penetration.

Extra DC in BB is useful all the time... Mobs that need high Spell pen are dealt with Divine Punishment or a Barbarian.

Cogito ergo doleo

[mechawhat]

...

I am looking at swapping out both mental toughness feats for shield/improved shield masteries. It's not set in stone, but I'm definitely looking into it.

And I know a CC'ing Cleric brings its own set of benefits, but like I've mentioned I've never played a role close to a group healer like a Cleric. My first time through I'd simply like to focus on getting the hang of keeping my party alive and hopefully not screwing it up too much.

And if by the time I hit 20 I actually enjoy playing the role, then I'll definitely look at building a more CC focused Cleric the next time through. The first time though I'm just going to assume all I'll be skilled at doing is making sure my party members don't die a horrific death in a pile of their own excrement.

I appreciate all of the feedback and help you guys have been giving me. :)

[SirValentine]

I'd like to focus on just getting healing down for my first time around and if I still have my sanity by the time I ever manage to get to the point where TR is an option, then I'll consider opening up to a more offensive-y support-y Cleric.

But first time, healbot, no exceptions.

Even if you want to PLAY healbot, there is no reason to BUILD a healbot. Build for an offensive caster, play as you feel comfortable. You'll still have all the healing capacity you need, and you can grow into your additional role at your own pace, rather than having to reroll or buy a Heart of Wood or something.

[Mubjon]

I've since updated my planned build. I need some feedback on that one and not the original.

Also as I've already mentioned, this is my first cleric. I'd like to focus on just getting healing down for my first time around and if I still have my sanity by the time I ever manage to get to the point where TR is an option, then I'll consider opening up to a more offensive-y support-y Cleric.

But first time, healbot, no exceptions.

basically to be a heal bot you only need a few feats.

Maximize
Empower
empower healing
Quicken

those can be used on your bursts for free, which turn them into a mass heal at end game for no sp usage. With starting at 14 charisma you should end up with

base turns - 3
20 charisma (starting base and a +6 item) +5
4 enhancements 4
2 charisma enhancements 1

So 13 turns and you can get another with ship buff of +2 that is 14 turns which is a lot by cap. That is 28 continuous minutes of aura going off in between each shrine if you want to use them for that.

Also those feats selected can boost the healing power of your cures and heal spells. I could see taking mental toughness, but not improved mental toughness that is basically 1 mass heal per shrine that you get to cast extra. Not worth it to use a feat on that one imho, not when you will still end up with over 2K sp easily by cap. As well you will learn to heal and when not to heal as you go along. Just trying to save you from respecing out of a feat that is not needed when you finally realize that you have the healing role down pat.

This gives you 3 feats that can be used to boost your offensive spell capabilities to have when you want them. You do not ever have to cast an offensive spell or CC spell if you do not want. But, you would have them to make casting more fun and to help solo while you are learning. In fact when I was not questing I would do slayers with a melee hire to practice timing my healing with fighting or casting.

So I am not saying that you cannot be a healbot, just saying that you do not need to pick some feats that will not be useful to you when there are others that can give you a bit more fun after you learn how to take care of the party.

[Mubjon]

I am looking at swapping out both mental toughness feats for shield/improved shield masteries. It's not set in stone, but I'm definitely looking into it.

And I know a CC'ing Cleric brings its own set of benefits, but like I've mentioned I've never played a role close to a group healer like a Cleric. My first time through I'd simply like to focus on getting the hang of keeping my party alive and hopefully not screwing it up too much.

And if by the time I hit 20 I actually enjoy playing the role, then I'll definitely look at building a more CC focused Cleric the next time through. The first time though I'm just going to assume all I'll be skilled at doing is making sure my party members don't die a horrific death in a pile of their own excrement.

I appreciate all of the feedback and help you guys have been giving me. :)

I missed the swap out for two feats that would boost your survival by a lot :) Those are two really great feats and to be honest on all my new clerics I am splashing 1 fighter to get free tower shield prof and then taking the shield mastery feat as the bonus. I am also splashing 1 wizard to get a free meta magic feat as I build my clerics to be able to do everything a cleric is capable of doing.

Might not be able to hit 400 dmg on a swing, but I can get 100 dmg from a divine punishment, 100 dmg from swinging my weapon and 400 dmg by running them through a blade barrier.

[jbleargh]

I am looking at swapping out both mental toughness feats for shield/improved shield masteries. It's not set in stone, but I'm definitely looking into it.

And I know a CC'ing Cleric brings its own set of benefits, but like I've mentioned I've never played a role close to a group healer like a Cleric. My first time through I'd simply like to focus on getting the hang of keeping my party alive and hopefully not screwing it up too much.



Healbot is a "playstyle"... Caster cleric (with offensive spells and CC) is a build.

To be a good healbot you need a good caster cleric build.

The alternative is to Caster cleric is a Melee cleric or Battle Cleric.

There is no reason to not max wisdom and evocation DCs.

Healing takes some practise... but you will be frustrated if you can't do more after you learned the best ways to keep people alive.

In regular quests with a moderate competent group, keeping the aura up is enough.

If you don't have any other capabilities, you will be just following the party doing nothing useful most of the time.

Cogito ergo doleo

[morticianjohn]

I am looking at swapping out both mental toughness feats for shield/improved shield masteries. It's not set in stone, but I'm definitely looking into it.

And I know a CC'ing Cleric brings its own set of benefits, but like I've mentioned I've never played a role close to a group healer like a Cleric. My first time through I'd simply like to focus on getting the hang of keeping my party alive and hopefully not screwing it up too much.

And if by the time I hit 20 I actually enjoy playing the role, then I'll definitely look at building a more CC focused Cleric the next time through. The first time though I'm just going to assume all I'll be skilled at doing is making sure my party members don't die a horrific death in a pile of their own excrement.

I appreciate all of the feedback and help you guys have been giving me. :)

I would take just one shield mastery. Keep in mind the first shield mastery give you 20% reduction to incoming damage but the 2nd only gives 5% reduction.

This is all provided that you're using a tower shield. A heavy shield would be a 15% reduction in incoming damage. I use a tower shield on my FvS even though he is not proficient. It affects balance skills but not too much else and I really haven't noticed a problem with that.

You can craft a nice tower shield with superior ardor VI on it or something useful on it.

[axel15810]

I've since updated my planned build. I need some feedback on that one and not the original.

Also as I've already mentioned, this is my first cleric. I'd like to focus on just getting healing down for my first time around and if I still have my sanity by the time I ever manage to get to the point where TR is an option, then I'll consider opening up to a more offensive-y support-y Cleric.

But first time, healbot, no exceptions.

I missed your 2nd post where you updated the build but I read your OP. And I'm not trying to bring you down, just trying to lead you in the right direction because there's no reason to build a healbot. You'll very likely end up regretting it. Pure healbot is a gimped build and I don't want you to have to reroll or reincarnate.

Like others have mentioned, an offensive casting build will give you all the healing you'll ever need plus tons of other benefits. And you can still play as a healbot until you get the hang of healing even if you build as an offensive caster. With an offensive caster you'll be a lot more useful in parties when your healing isn't needed 24/7...which is very often. And you at first can only offensive cast as much as you feel comfortable with. With this build you'll find yourself just following people around with nothing to do constantly. Not most peoples' idea of fun. There are tons of offensive casting builds on the forums...you should do a google search and check them out. But GL with whatever you decide to do.

[PNellesen]

Nothing to add regarding feats/enhancements, however I personally don't like dumping STR on my clerics regardless of whether they're healbots, casters, or melees. I like a min STR of 12, and usually put CHA at 10. Now that they've fixed Lesser Turning items such as the Sacred Band (ty devs!) 10 CHA usually gives me enough Turns to make it through all but the longest quests without running out, and I HATE being Enfeebled :p

Oh, and I must put in the obligatory link to the "Path to Enlightenment" thread by The Great Samulas - http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=202343 - anyone considering playing a cleric should read it.