Tough love is not appreciated...

[mobrien316]

I recently TR'd my fighter, whose first life was as a cleric, into another cleric. I like playing clerics, but in his twenty levels as a fighter I must have forgotten some of the drama that comes along with the role as "healer."


Last night in an elite run of Butcher's Path, a fighter got cursed. I didn't notice the curse at first and threw him a cure, which did practically nothing. He was yelping for another cure and I told him to drink a curse pot (which I believe are ML 1). He said he doesn't carry curse pots because "that's why we have clerics!"

I told him level 4 clerics don't have access to level three spells, and he told me I should be carrying a wand... Then he kept yelping for more cures.


Realizing this would not go over well, but also believing it would ultimately wind up helping him, I told him I wasn't going to heal him any longer while he was cursed, but that I would be happy to carry his stone to the shrine after he died (which occurred shortly thereafter.)

As politely as I could, I told him that he is responsible for carrying curse pots and that healers are just wasting SP by curing him while he is cursed. I also told him he should be carrying poison pots and cure disease pots, and he loudly disagreed with me. When my character was a fighter I carried a stack of 100 of just about every type of pot there is, and my current cleric has pretty much the same.

If he was a brand-new player I would have been a bit less surprised, but he had wings next to his name. I don't know how he got to 20 if he doesn't carry pots and thinks that the cleric is responsible for everything...


Anyway... He either learned a lesson or he thinks I'm a jerk and he squelched me.

[Alaunra2010]

He had wings next to his name, did he? Based on your observations, his wings are attached to someone else's back.

+1 to you for at least trying to make it a teaching moment.

[LafoMamone]

Anyway... He either learned a lesson or he thinks I'm a jerk and he squelched me.

By the way you describe it, he most likely didn't learn. Either way, you should be the one doing the squelching.

[Missing_Minds]

I see a fighter getting ignored from future Shoud and Shav quest runs.

[FranOhmsford]

Excuse me but since when do Kobold Shamans throw healing curses around?

Mummies yes
Clay Golems yes
Sully Heck yes

Kobold Shamans in Butcher's Path?

BTW I wouldn't be expecting lowbies to be carrying Curse Pots around anywhere other than the Necropolis.

If you're a TR who's played a Cleric before than you should be at least carrying a Wand.

If he's a TR he should know to carry Remove Curse Pots BUT I wouldn't be wasting Curse Pots on anything other than a Healing Curse - The rest go away quick enough anyway and don't stop heals from getting through.

Can't really understand why your Cure Mod did practically nothing unless:
1. He was Warforged
2. He had a huge amount of HP for a Lvl 4 Fighter and you forgot to maximise/empower.

[Antheal]

Butcher's Path?

I don't think Elite Kobold Shamans have the ability to cast anti-healing curses, just the -4 penalty curses.

That doesn't explain why you were unable to heal him.

[Claransa]

Sorry you didn't get the memo but yeah nowadays with all the xp boosts any idiot can get to 20 on a first life.

[Mubjon]

I do not carry remove curse, disease, lesser restore, restore, greater restore, remove poison, or anything else that can be done with a pot.

The lowbies should be carrying 5 to 10 of each at all levels. I might start making them carry their own cure pots too. I do on my melee's and other characters that are not divine. Why should I expect something different from a complete stranger?

I have ran into quite a few players that cannot seem to understand that they are responsible for their own lives. I have other things to do than worry about making sure I can cure all the aliments that someone might get in a quest. I am happy to heal during battle, I am not however there to heal you outside of battle or remove stuff that you can spend a few plat on to remove your self.

[Mubjon]

Butcher's Path?

I don't think Elite Kobold Shamans have the ability to cast anti-healing curses, just the -4 penalty curses.

That doesn't explain why you were unable to heal him.

It was probably a WF that did not bother with healer's friend. I have started to either ask for a wand from the WF or they will need to carry pots. not going to spend the SP to heal someone that is taking half the effects. Of course I have been splashing 1 level of wizard by level 7 for the free meta feat.

[ZennyoTheWise]

Excuse me but since when do Kobold Shamans throw healing curses around?

BTW I wouldn't be expecting lowbies to be carrying Curse Pots around anywhere other than the Necropolis.

If you're a TR who's played a Cleric before than you should be at least carrying a Wand.

If he's a TR he should know to carry Remove Curse Pots BUT I wouldn't be wasting Curse Pots on anything other than a Healing Curse - The rest go away quick enough anyway and don't stop heals from getting through.

It's always fun reading discussions from players telling other players how they should or should not play the game.

Aaahhh the beauty of MMO's.

[Kawai]

He had wings next to his name, did he? Based on your observations, his wings are attached to someone else's back.

+1 to you for at least trying to make it a teaching moment.

Ditto... +1. There is no good reason for anyone not to carry thier own pots and b responsible for themselves to some degree. Too bad there isnt a pot for common sense.

Tarelyn

[Enoach]

I recently TR'd my fighter, whose first life was as a cleric, into another cleric. I like playing clerics, but in his twenty levels as a fighter I must have forgotten some of the drama that comes along with the role as "healer."


Last night in an elite run of Butcher's Path, a fighter got cursed. I didn't notice the curse at first and threw him a cure, which did practically nothing. He was yelping for another cure and I told him to drink a curse pot (which I believe are ML 1). He said he doesn't carry curse pots because "that's why we have clerics!"

I told him level 4 clerics don't have access to level three spells, and he told me I should be carrying a wand... Then he kept yelping for more cures.


Realizing this would not go over well, but also believing it would ultimately wind up helping him, I told him I wasn't going to heal him any longer while he was cursed, but that I would be happy to carry his stone to the shrine after he died (which occurred shortly thereafter.)

As politely as I could, I told him that he is responsible for carrying curse pots and that healers are just wasting SP by curing him while he is cursed. I also told him he should be carrying poison pots and cure disease pots, and he loudly disagreed with me. When my character was a fighter I carried a stack of 100 of just about every type of pot there is, and my current cleric has pretty much the same.

If he was a brand-new player I would have been a bit less surprised, but he had wings next to his name. I don't know how he got to 20 if he doesn't carry pots and thinks that the cleric is responsible for everything...


Anyway... He either learned a lesson or he thinks I'm a jerk and he squelched me.


I'm a bit confused...


Curses that negate/reduce healing don't show up until you meet Mummies - First encounter is about Level 5 Quests in Necropolis
Curses cause a -4 to Attack, Skill Checks and Saves


If the fighter was getting reduced healing at the level 4 range, the only possibility would be that the fighter was Warforged. This would be 50% without any Healer's Friend Enhancements.

[SirValentine]

Excuse me but since when do Kobold Shamans throw healing curses around?


They don't.



BTW I wouldn't be expecting lowbies to be carrying Curse Pots around anywhere other than the Necropolis.

If you're a TR who's played a Cleric before than you should be at least carrying a Wand.


Wow, double standard. TR melees are not expected to carry their own Remove Curse expendables, but you expect a Cleric to pay for and use an inventory slot to have a Remove Curse expendable to use on the melees? Nope, sorry, not happening.

[smeggy1384]

Sounds like they had not played a divine before, and they had not read the curse description. I forget to grab the various status curing potions on my alts, that's my own fault and responsibility. My arti i keep them all on, that's the only character i actively level anyway. I'd bet this is the type of player who runs off from that really nasty looking spell(radiant burst or aura of course!) the cleric keeps trying to cast on top of them.. then gripes that you're not healing efficiently enough.

[Quarterling]

Well at least he's lucky enough that curse now has a timer.

*wishes it would go back to curse being a permanent-until-cured debuff*

[Ryan220]

Dont sweat it.

Its everyones responsibilty to help if they can.

If I was carrying a Remove Curse wand then I wouldve used it if his reason was he couldnt afford pots or he forgot to buy some etc, but if (as in your case) he referred to me as some kind of Nannybot then hes on his own.

If players cant be bothered to help me to heal them..................

[Starp]

I do not carry remove curse, disease, lesser restore, restore, greater restore, remove poison, or anything else that can be done with a pot.

The lowbies should be carrying 5 to 10 of each at all levels. I might start making them carry their own cure pots too. I do on my melee's and other characters that are not divine. Why should I expect something different from a complete stranger?

I have ran into quite a few players that cannot seem to understand that they are responsible for their own lives. I have other things to do than worry about making sure I can cure all the aliments that someone might get in a quest. I am happy to heal during battle, I am not however there to heal you outside of battle or remove stuff that you can spend a few plat on to remove your self.
Yep, I mostly agree with your list except for Greater Restoration. I always carry that on my FvS and Cleric toons: multiple negative levels can make a fellow player dead in a hurry. Deathward helps, but some of those stinking drow casters (and all of the beholders) do the Dispel Magic routine: Painful!

[taurean430]

Well at least he's lucky enough that curse now has a timer.

*wishes it would go back to curse being a permanent-until-cured debuff*

/signed

Same for blindness, disease, etc too please. Especially mummy rot, the gift that kept on giving...

Players were better then. Many of the newer ones expect everything to be done for them.

[good_ole_corwin]

I do not carry remove curse, disease, lesser restore, restore, greater restore, remove poison, or anything else that can be done with a pot.

While I agree with your general sentiment, you haz (greater) restore pots? Do you have a number I could call and order a few crates, do they have wholesale prices?

In all seriousness, I would expect TRs to carry around their own pots and generally have some degree of self-sufficiency. On the other hand, the stuff can be plat intensive, especially if arcanes jump in and demand melees carry their own hages and heroisms and stuff. So on my divine lives I did keep an assortment of scrolls and wands to remove such conditions and if a melee was not removing it, I would. And sometimes I would suggest for them to start carry basics like remove curse pots etc. All this tough talk about how Im not doing this or that and I can carry his stone instead of a wand is all nice and dandy, but ultimately his death is your XP loss too, so Im personally not a fan of "tough love" too much.

[Garix]

/signed

Same for blindness, disease, etc too please. Especially mummy rot, the gift that kept on giving...

Players were better then. Many of the newer ones expect everything to be done for them.

Ah the days of running around harbour/Marketplace unable to see and hoping to meet a helpful cleric :D

[Claransa]

I do not carry remove curse, disease, lesser restore, restore, greater restore, remove poison, or anything else that can be done with a pot.

The lowbies should be carrying 5 to 10 of each at all levels. I might start making them carry their own cure pots too. I do on my melee's and other characters that are not divine. Why should I expect something different from a complete stranger?

I have ran into quite a few players that cannot seem to understand that they are responsible for their own lives. I have other things to do than worry about making sure I can cure all the aliments that someone might get in a quest. I am happy to heal during battle, I am not however there to heal you outside of battle or remove stuff that you can spend a few plat on to remove your self.

restore and greater restore are the only way to remove negative levels besides resting at a shrine and they don't come in potion form.

At low levels, this is obviously not an issue they only need to worry about stat damage and exhaustion.

At higher levels silver flame trinkets and flesh render goggles should be carried.

Just saying because any newb reading this might be wasting time looking for restoration and greater restoration pots when they could be working on the silver flame trinket or farming up flesh render goggles.

[Missing_Minds]

If players cant be bothered to help me to heal them..................

Given how prolific some race AI is with certain spells like dispell magic and curse... if that person wasn't carrying his own pots I may throw one or two removals from my own stock, but it is really up to them to carry it once they hit a level they can use it.

As stated before, I don't forsee that guy getting into too many shrouds or shavarath quests.

Heck, there have been times I've forgotten after leveling to get stocked up. I told the other player to do their best to keep me free of them, and I'll buy them another wand, a stack of pots if they prefer, or the plat to do so themselves. I see no reason why my own forgetfulness should cost them, esp when it is something I can take care of myself just as efficiently.

[Mubjon]

restore and greater restore are the only way to remove negative levels besides resting at a shrine and they don't come in potion form.

At low levels, this is obviously not an issue they only need to worry about stat damage and exhaustion.

At higher levels silver flame trinkets and flesh render goggles should be carried.

Just saying because any newb reading this might be wasting time looking for restoration and greater restoration pots when they could be working on the silver flame trinket or farming up flesh render goggles.

The bursts from RS I will remove negative levels and stat damage and they regenerate. Which I am happy to do when that occurs for anyone that is in a party with me. I did not expect them to carry those two pots, but they should carry lesser restore which will remove fatigue, enfeeblement etc and it is much handy to do that yourself than ask for it.

[Mubjon]

Yep, I mostly agree with your list except for Greater Restoration. I always carry that on my FvS and Cleric toons: multiple negative levels can make a fellow player dead in a hurry. Deathward helps, but some of those stinking drow casters (and all of the beholders) do the Dispel Magic routine: Painful!

I just listed the spells that I do not carry, did not mean to make it seem like greater restore pots were available.


A cleric should have Radiant Servant and the burst will remove 1 to 4 negative levels with a single burst and stat damage. So if you have it ask for a burst and stand next to the cleric to get the help.

[Llewndyn]

I recently TR'd my fighter, whose first life was as a cleric, into another cleric. I like playing clerics, but in his twenty levels as a fighter I must have forgotten some of the drama that comes along with the role as "healer."


Last night in an elite run of Butcher's Path, a fighter got cursed. I didn't notice the curse at first and threw him a cure, which did practically nothing. He was yelping for another cure and I told him to drink a curse pot (which I believe are ML 1). He said he doesn't carry curse pots because "that's why we have clerics!"

I told him level 4 clerics don't have access to level three spells, and he told me I should be carrying a wand... Then he kept yelping for more cures.


Realizing this would not go over well, but also believing it would ultimately wind up helping him, I told him I wasn't going to heal him any longer while he was cursed, but that I would be happy to carry his stone to the shrine after he died (which occurred shortly thereafter.)

As politely as I could, I told him that he is responsible for carrying curse pots and that healers are just wasting SP by curing him while he is cursed. I also told him he should be carrying poison pots and cure disease pots, and he loudly disagreed with me. When my character was a fighter I carried a stack of 100 of just about every type of pot there is, and my current cleric has pretty much the same.

If he was a brand-new player I would have been a bit less surprised, but he had wings next to his name. I don't know how he got to 20 if he doesn't carry pots and thinks that the cleric is responsible for everything...


Anyway... He either learned a lesson or he thinks I'm a jerk and he squelched me.

I agree with the fighter, and not you. As a cleric it is totally your job to heal, uncurse, haste, blur, resist energy, raise dead, all the things people want done for them so they can play the game as they see fit. You not removing his curse caused him to have to play the game in a way he did not enjoy, and thus you ruined his gaming experience and cognitive dissonance. This is incorrect thinking, and does not end with happy feelings all of the time. /sarcasm off

Yeah, I made the mistake of doing everything I could to keep people alive, no matter how badly they play or how unprepared they were for a given quest, and all that got me was dead broke when I TRed. There is a difference between playing your role and throwing the odd heal to keep the flow of the game going in a positive direction while using SOME OF THE MOST POWERFUL DAMAGE SPELLS IN THE GAME to add significantly to DPS and wasting resources to keep up a party with no business being in the quest. The sad thing is either way you lose: If you overheal and waste all your resources, those terrible players never bother to learn anything or offer their skewed view of their own uberness to other clerics who must then do what you should have and inform them of their terribleness, and on the other hand if you do what you did there will be a base of players who will squelch you, which sounds fine until you realize that the only people who log on regularly and are in PUGs regularly are often those same terrible players because all the good players solo until 15.

The best way to get back at them is with kindness, then later when you TR into a non-healing class and they still have you on their friends list tell them when they send you a /tell that you can solo heal their VOD and join them :P

[Mubjon]

While I agree with your general sentiment, you haz (greater) restore pots? Do you have a number I could call and order a few crates, do they have wholesale prices?

I meant that I did not carry those spells :) I know you cannot get greater restore pots at least I have not found them if we could.

However, the burst from RS I can remove negative levels and stat damage so I prefer to use them as opposed to carrying spells or wands for something that I have that regenerates every 2 minutes. I generally have 12 to 16 turns to play with so I have plenty to get me to the next shrine most of the time.

So while I might be all for "tough love" I know my cleric enough to know that asking for a greater restore when I have a burst is not the best use of resources.


In all seriousness, I would expect TRs to carry around their own pots and generally have some degree of self-sufficiency. On the other hand, the stuff can be plat intensive, especially if arcanes jump in and demand melees carry their own hages and heroisms and stuff. So on my divine lives I did keep an assortment of scrolls and wands to remove such conditions and if a melee was not removing it, I would. And sometimes I would suggest for them to start carry basics like remove curse pots etc. All this tough talk about how Im not doing this or that and I can carry his stone instead of a wand is all nice and dandy, but ultimately his death is your XP loss too, so Im personally not a fan of "tough love" too much.

I tell everyone I quest with to carry the following the pots that are cheap. I even carry them on my cleric, even though I can cast the spells. I do not load the spells at all and have not had an issue 1 bit.

Remove Curse
Remove Disease
Neutralize poison
Lesser restore
blindness removal

It is not that much to carry those 5 around and they help remove most of what a character will run into while questing. The neutralize poison even lasts for a few minutes so you can drink it and be protected afterwards for awhile.

I do agree that haste and rage would be a bit much. They are both area of affect spells and my wizard uses them all the time. However, at the start of the quest or after a shrine if you want it hang around to get them :) I do cast them during boss fights to help though.

[Llewndyn]

Excuse me but since when do Kobold Shamans throw healing curses around?

Mummies yes
Clay Golems yes
Sully Heck yes

Kobold Shamans in Butcher's Path?

BTW I wouldn't be expecting lowbies to be carrying Curse Pots around anywhere other than the Necropolis.

If you're a TR who's played a Cleric before than you should be at least carrying a Wand.

If he's a TR he should know to carry Remove Curse Pots BUT I wouldn't be wasting Curse Pots on anything other than a Healing Curse - The rest go away quick enough anyway and don't stop heals from getting through.

Can't really understand why your Cure Mod did practically nothing unless:
1. He was Warforged
2. He had a huge amount of HP for a Lvl 4 Fighter and you forgot to maximise/empower.

Kobold Shamans curse, happens all the time (maybe not healing curses, but the instant I got cursed even as a TR I immediately take care of it, as I often don't differentiate between stat curses and healing curses) If he had TR wings he should know to carry curse pots or have some left over from a past life PERIOD. It's no one else's fault but his that he came unprepared, ESPECIALLY if he had wings, meaning he had run that before. And unless you pay for said wand, I'm not bankrolling your inability to plan for contingencies anyway. Also at level 4 unless he went human it's not apparent he had the feats to pick up maximize or empower, he might be going for something else. The great thing about DDO is you don't have to follow a set path to building your character!

I wish you the best of luck getting healed or even into groups with that attitude, I really do. The minute someone says something to me about not being prepared for something they should have a pot for (and curse, after it's happened a few times, would be one of them) I stop bothering with them and concentrate on the others actually trying to be self sufficient, or in my case, if I'm solo healing Shroud, I start healing myself because I'm a terrible player, so there!

[FranOhmsford]

Kobold Shamans curse, happens all the time. If he had TR wings he should know to carry curse pots or have some left over from a past life PERIOD. It's no one else's fault but his that he came unprepared, ESPECIALLY if he had wings, meaning he had run that before. And unless you pay for said wand, I'm not bankrolling your inability to plan for contingencies anyway. Also at level 4 unless he went human it's not apparent he had the feats to pick up maximize or empower, he might be going for something else. The great thing about DDO is you don't have to follow a set path to building your character!

I wish you the best of luck getting healed or even into groups with that attitude, I really do. The minute someone says something to me about not being prepared for something they should have a pot for (and curse, after it's happened a few times, would be one of them) I stop bothering with them and concentrate on the others actually trying to be self sufficient, or in my case, if I'm solo healing Shroud, I start healing myself because I'm a terrible player, so there!

First things first the OP was talking about healing curses.

I was talking about Healing Curses.

Kobold Shamans do not throw Healing Curses - They throw standard Curses.

If you're worried at all about standard curses then yes you should carry pots to get rid of them and not expect the cleric/FavSoul to get rid of them for you.

Secondly the max/emp thing was to cover my own back when listing reasons why the OP didn't see large numbers when healing said fighter.

thirdly - I play a cleric { a number of clerics actually as well as many other toons} as my main. I am constantly told on these forums that I should be carrying every possible curative just in case.
I carry a remove curse wand or two that barely if ever gat used {I actually carry the spell too which also hardly ever gets used}.
I also carry Remove Curse Pots etc. on all my characters just in case.

The OP was complaining about not being able to heal said fighter because of a curse - The OP was wrong.

The fighter was also wrong - He/She should have told the OP that Kobold Shamans don't cast Healing Curses rather than tell the OP to Wand Whip a remove curse.

The fighter as a TR should have known to carry remove curse pots BUT for the harbour I'd assume he/she had left them in the TR Cache.

Maybe the OP also left his/her Wand in the TR cache or just hadn't bought a new one as yet.

The main thing is that the OP wants all players to carry remove curse pots {fine by me} but is unwilling to carry a wand {btw 1 wand {50 charges} takes up same space as 100 pots - 50 charges should last more than long enough}.

[Mubjon]

Kobold Shamans curse, happens all the time (maybe not healing curses, but the instant I got cursed even as a TR I immediately take care of it, as I often don't differentiate between stat curses and healing curses) If he had TR wings he should know to carry curse pots or have some left over from a past life PERIOD. It's no one else's fault but his that he came unprepared, ESPECIALLY if he had wings, meaning he had run that before. And unless you pay for said wand, I'm not bankrolling your inability to plan for contingencies anyway. Also at level 4 unless he went human it's not apparent he had the feats to pick up maximize or empower, he might be going for something else. The great thing about DDO is you don't have to follow a set path to building your character!

I wish you the best of luck getting healed or even into groups with that attitude, I really do. The minute someone says something to me about not being prepared for something they should have a pot for (and curse, after it's happened a few times, would be one of them) I stop bothering with them and concentrate on the others actually trying to be self sufficient, or in my case, if I'm solo healing Shroud, I start healing myself because I'm a terrible player, so there!

I had an Sorc during the Cove event that was level 8, had like 90 hp and joined up with a group of us that were level 12. One hit maybe two from the hobgoblins on the island would kill him. I was keeping everyone up and he happened to die from grabbing aggro from about 5 of them. He launched a fireball or something before anyone began attacking. So of course he died and he typed in chat **** cleric!

I told him that he needed to be careful of aggro because being 4 levels before on these mobs would kill him faster than I could deal with. And told him that the attitude would not be tolerated. He of course goes and does it again and dies again, starts in with how I was not healing blah blah. So I told him that he should release, grab some pots and then come back I am not raising him anymore.

Then he went on going "Help I need a rez here" and on and on. I dropped party and went on to solo around the island then solo'd the gem run. I do not have the patience to deal with people when my character is capable of solo'ing that content.

[FranOhmsford]

I had an Sorc during the Cove event that was level 8, had like 90 hp and joined up with a group of us that were level 12. One hit maybe two from the hobgoblins on the island would kill him. I was keeping everyone up and he happened to die from grabbing aggro from about 5 of them. He launched a fireball or something before anyone began attacking. So of course he died and he typed in chat **** cleric!

I told him that he needed to be careful of aggro because being 4 levels before on these mobs would kill him faster than I could deal with. And told him that the attitude would not be tolerated. He of course goes and does it again and dies again, starts in with how I was not healing blah blah. So I told him that he should release, grab some pots and then come back I am not raising him anymore.

Then he went on going "Help I need a rez here" and on and on. I dropped party and went on to solo around the island then solo'd the gem run. I do not have the patience to deal with people when my character is capable of solo'ing that content.

Was it just you and him?

If so good on ya.

If not why the heck did you drop party? What had the rest of them done to you?

Why didn't you just type /ignore add .... or right click him in chat and hit ignore?

[PNellesen]

Hah! Reminds me of a recent Hard VoD I joined - had a caster in there who, when he got cursed, kept asking "Is [my character name] here???" when I wouldn't remove his curses for him or raise him when he died. He must have died 2 or 3 times, each time the same way. (And honestly, there's not much point in raising a caster in VoD who is 1. Out of SP and 2. Doesn't remove their own curses)

A first-life/first-time player who doesn't have various potions on them at level 4/5? Yeah, I might cut them some slack and toss a Remove Curse/Remove Disease on them if they were polite and willing to learn. But a TR? Really, they should know at that point the basic potions that all characters should have a few of, and should REALLY know better than to mouth off to the guy who controls whether they enjoy the quest or spend the trip in a backpack (or in a pool of lava if they're REALLY a**holes)

[davidolson22]

It's not just clerics who get this junk. Was doing some level 11 house J quest and a monk die 5 times. 5!

After we successfully completed the quest he made a point of rage quitting and saying "I died cause I had to ask for haste!"

Before you go attacking me saying I should cast haste, I'm perfectly happy to cast haste, I just tend to forget to.

[Eillyss]

Before you go attacking me saying I should cast haste, I'm perfectly happy to cast haste, I just tend to forget to.

THIS! it happens ALL the times when im on my caster!! :D

[firemedium_jt]

Sometimes u get more with candy than sour milk. Maybe give out a few curse pots for them to try out. This is how I learned to buy heal scrolls. We appreciate mana pots too when they r give to us.
We buy heal scrolls. They should buy pots too. Actions r louder than words sometimes.

[smeggy1384]

Was it just you and him?

If so good on ya.

If not why the heck did you drop party? What had the rest of them done to you?

Why didn't you just type /ignore add .... or right click him in chat and hit ignore?

I'd be willing to bet ignoring a player won't shut them out of voicechat as well. Its on by default(absolutely hate this, never even knew it existed until someone asked in party chat once why i was not responding), and really if they are whining in group chat they probably will on voice once they see in party gets no response. Dropping group from a bad player who might just bring more than the group could handle is a good choice there, he's throwing fireballs in an area that some lvl 20 mobs can pop on their lower level group.. bad idea!

[FranOhmsford]

I'd be willing to bet ignoring a player won't shut them out of voicechat as well. Its on by default(absolutely hate this, never even knew it existed until someone asked in party chat once why i was not responding), and really if they are whining in group chat they probably will on voice once they see in party gets no response. Dropping group from a bad player who might just bring more than the group could handle is a good choice there, he's throwing fireballs in an area that some lvl 20 mobs can pop on their lower level group.. bad idea!

Ignoring stops you from hearing them - Everyone else in party can still read and hear whatever they say but you now have blissful silence.

He can't drop any fireballs while he's dead.

The Cleric is refusing to res him.

The cleric puts him on ignore.

If other people in party start yelling at cleric then fine - drop group.

If they don't - then just wait for griefer to release and party leader to kick him.

Job done.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Just tell him that you are a horrible cleric, and that he should punish you properly by blacklisting you. :cool:

You should also encourage him and others like him to blacklist any cleric who does not take care of all of his little boo boos for him.

That'll teach those bad clerics.






(just what is the min lvl of a Remove Curse wand anyway? :rolleyes: )








(I just know that half the people who read this will not catch my sarcasm.... /sigh)

[mobrien316]

Anyway...

I was incorrect when I thought the curse was the healing curse variety. The guy was yelling at me over and over to remove his curse and heal him, and I didn't stop to think it wasn't a healing curse.

He must have been hit for more damage right about when I threw the first cure at him, and I wasn't watching my combat log. He had less than ten HP when I threw him the cure, and when he kept screeching about not getting cured a few seconds later I looked at his HP and they were only in the teens. Between seeing his HP not go up much and him yelling for me to remove his curse and heal him, I mistakenly assumed he had a healing curse.


I don't see the slightest problem with expecting all characters to carry curse pots, as well as poison pots, disease pots, blindness pots, etc... All of my characters carry them, including the ones who can cure disease, remove curses, etc... How is it more convenient for my character to drop what he's holding, pick up a wand, whip it at the lazy other character, and then swap back to his normal weapon? Isn't it easier for the afflicted character to simply click the hotbar with the curse pot on it?

BTW, the minimum level on a wand of remove curse is 5, if I recall correctly. My cleric was level 4 when this happened.

[taurean430]

I let them walk around that way. I've come to operate by a simple rule: If you demonstrate that you don't care about your red bar/status, then I won't either...

[bhgiant]

this is why I very selfishly carry with myself heal wands, pots, reconstructs, remove curse, cure poison, remove blindness, remove disease, and run away from fights while getting my toon's health up. Any heals I receive from the cleric is gravy.

Of course, I play either Rogue or WF Sorc... poor Barbarians and Fighters... they will never know true joy...

[Postumus]

If he was a brand-new player I would have been a bit less surprised, but he had wings next to his name. I don't know how he got to 20 if he doesn't carry pots and thinks that the cleric is responsible for everything...


Anyway... He either learned a lesson or he thinks I'm a jerk and he squelched me.

If he managed to TR, he probably thinks you are a jerk and squelched you. He should carry all the pots you listed. That said, if you plan to keep PUGGING as a cleric, you need to decide if you are going to be one of the 'tough love' ("I don't heal stoopid!") clerics, or one of the boy scout ("be prepared") clerics.

Neither one is a bad choice or makes someone a bad player.

One just compensates for other players' lack of readiness and knowledge by not worrying about it since that player brought it on himself. The other compensates by having all the wands, scrolls, spells likely necessary to cover those in the PUG that don't carry UW items, pots, disease immunity items, etc.

Once you decide which one you are, then this type of player won't ever bother you again since you will expect it and either cure him on the spot without or let him ride out the quest in your backpack.

[Postumus]

The main thing is that the OP wants all players to carry remove curse pots {fine by me} but is unwilling to carry a wand {btw 1 wand {50 charges} takes up same space as 100 pots - 50 charges should last more than long enough}.

1 wand also takes up less space than 2 soul stones and they have the added bonus of being able to use them on oneself. I find it more efficient space-wise to carry the wands.

[Enoach]

If he managed to TR, he probably thinks you are a jerk and squelched you. He should carry all the pots you listed. That said, if you plan to keep PUGGING as a cleric, you need to decide if you are going to be one of the 'tough love' ("I don't heal stoopid!") clerics, or one of the boy scout ("be prepared") clerics.

Neither one is a bad choice or makes someone a bad player.

One just compensates for other players' lack of readiness and knowledge by not worrying about it since that player brought it on himself. The other compensates by having all the wands, scrolls, spells likely necessary to cover those in the PUG that don't carry UW items, pots, disease immunity items, etc.

Once you decide which one you are, then this type of player won't ever bother you again since you will expect it and either cure him on the spot without or let him ride out the quest in your backpack.

I'm more boy scout with a large helping of teaching put in. I do not cure curses right away, or even poison - I do listen for that failed save crunch sound that stat damage effects can make on players.

As a cleric I use divine cleansing I (Disease or Poison) and will usually go to divine cleansing II to gain the curse removal - with the number of turns I use, this becomes a fast and efficient method as it also boosts the Fortification Save of the receiver for a short time.

Where the teaching comes in, is in helping other players become prepared with the basics. such as curse removal and cure potions <- you don't need enough to take you from 10 to full - You do need enough to keep you above 1 HP in a pinch.

As for teaching; it amazes me how many paladins, rangers, rogues and artificers either don't know/forget that they have abilities that allow them to use simple wands to augment their own survival (of course so many also run to the next fight with 1/2 or less of their HP screaming "Hjeal Me" so maybe I shouldn't be surprised)

In those cases I teach by showing them how having simple items to help remove debilitating effects can actually help them preform better. Many of these basic items are passed by from barrel breakage or even chests as well as collectibles.

Education removes the misunderstanding of subtle hints, as well as not only teaches them that they should have certain items, but why. Its in knowing the why that usually sinks the message in.

[mobrien316]

I believe the curse removal wands are minimum level 5, and my cleric was level 4 at the time.

The curse removal pots are minimum level 1, and it makes no sense for this particular player to believe that removing curses are a cleric's job when he could simply buy a few pots and not have to worry about it. The fact that, with a level 4 cleric, he could remove his own curse whereas I could not remove it for him, only adds to the unnecessary drama.


In my cleric's past life, I would definitely say he was more of a boy scout and tried to be prepared for anything. I never asked for pot replacement after a raid and I considered it part of the job to buy lots of wands. No big deal.


In his first life I learned to stop healing stupid around Gianthold, I believe. I would rank players who scream at me to remove their poison and curses and diseases with the players who run into the next room, out of range of my heals, and then scream at me because they are about to die.

[shadowphoton]

I agree with what you're saying, but if the quest isn't BYOH I wouldn't expect anything more than this especially in quests that can be soloed by a good player.

At the same time I don't want to see my party members die and cost me 10% just to make a point that they should carry curse pots. Which, by the way, you can use curse and restore pots on other players so no need for wands at all.

[svinja]

Anyway...

I was incorrect when I thought the curse was the healing curse variety. The guy was yelling at me over and over to remove his curse and heal him, and I didn't stop to think it wasn't a healing curse.

He must have been hit for more damage right about when I threw the first cure at him, and I wasn't watching my combat log. He had less than ten HP when I threw him the cure, and when he kept screeching about not getting cured a few seconds later I looked at his HP and they were only in the teens. Between seeing his HP not go up much and him yelling for me to remove his curse and heal him, I mistakenly assumed he had a healing curse.


I don't see the slightest problem with expecting all characters to carry curse pots, as well as poison pots, disease pots, blindness pots, etc... All of my characters carry them, including the ones who can cure disease, remove curses, etc... How is it more convenient for my character to drop what he's holding, pick up a wand, whip it at the lazy other character, and then swap back to his normal weapon? Isn't it easier for the afflicted character to simply click the hotbar with the curse pot on it?

BTW, the minimum level on a wand of remove curse is 5, if I recall correctly. My cleric was level 4 when this happened.

Not decursing him is fine, but it was bad form of you to refuse to heal him. I run around cursed all the time, I don't bother removing them most of the time unless they're a healing curse, and a healer that refused to heal me because he can't tell the two icons apart would **** me off. A mistake I could understand, but self-righteousness ends up looking very bad when you turn out to be wrong.

[smeggy1384]

Not decursing him is fine, but it was bad form of you to refuse to heal him. I run around cursed all the time, I don't bother removing them most of the time unless they're a healing curse, and a healer that refused to heal me because he can't tell the two icons apart would **** me off. A mistake I could understand, but self-righteousness ends up looking very bad when you turn out to be wrong.

Funny how you quoted the part that mentions he did heal him, it just wasn't healing him much. Might want to read what you quote before saying its bad form to not heal, when you yourself quote where they did.

If the person is low on health and being hit they need to find a doorway to block and not get flanked, bring out the shield and shield block or do some other tactic beyond rushing for more mobs.

[LafoMamone]

1 wand also takes up less space than 2 soul stones and they have the added bonus of being able to use them on oneself. I find it more efficient space-wise to carry the wands.

Except that people will never learn to be even the least bit self-sufficient that way. They will always demand that things be done their way, and that you bend over backwards for the sake of their comfort and laziness.

Catering to people like that does not create good players.

[Zachski]

Except that people will never learn to be even the least bit self-sufficient that way. They will always demand that things be done their way, and that you bend over backwards for the sake of their comfort and laziness.

Catering to people like that does not create good players.

And it is not your place to teach others a lesson you think they need to learn when they have not asked for it.

[LafoMamone]

And it is not your place to teach others a lesson you think they need to learn when they have not asked for it.

I am guessing you are defending the person I have quoted, yes? In that case, no one asked for his "lesson" either, and he still gave it, did he not?

Seriously dude, take a break, go outside, take a pill...do whatever you need to do to regain the composure that you so easily lost while reading a suggestion posted on the forums, and were unable to criticize constructively.

[yawumpus]

And it is not your place to teach others a lesson you think they need to learn when they have not asked for it.

So kobold shamans should never target players without pots? WF melee should auto-get healing amp?

Please, no more easy buttons.

/not signed.

[svinja]

Funny how you quoted the part that mentions he did heal him, it just wasn't healing him much. Might want to read what you quote before saying its bad form to not heal, when you yourself quote where they did.

Could you explain to me what is so hard to understand about this sentence in the OP:


I told him I wasn't going to heal him any longer while he was cursed, but that I would be happy to carry his stone to the shrine after he died (which occurred shortly thereafter.)

It pretty clearly suggests he intentionally stopped healing the guy because he wasn't removing his curse. Seems like I'm not the one with reading problems here...

[Zachski]

I am guessing you are defending the person I have quoted, yes? In that case, no one asked for his "lesson" either, and he still gave it, did he not?

Seriously dude, take a break, go outside, take a pill...do whatever you need to do to regain the composure that you so easily lost while reading a suggestion posted on the forums, and were unable to criticize constructively.

He pointed out a hypocritical flaw in that logic, and you defended it with "Well, THEY'VE gotta learn a lesson somehow"

Sorry, double standards are never right.

[Gorbadoc]

Except that people will never learn to be even the least bit self-sufficient that way. They will always demand that things be done their way, and that you bend over backwards for the sake of their comfort and laziness.

Catering to people like that does not create good players.There's a balance. Good players support each other, and newer players need to learn how this works. A good cleric in DDO will try to look out for the fighter, and a good fighter will try to make the cleric's job easier.

You teach that to newer players by showing them. Try to support them, and if they're sucking up more SP than they should, hold back. Play the fool if you have to; "Oh, I'm sorry. I'm trying, but you'll have to play more conservatively if you want me to keep up with the healing." Either they'll figure it out, or they'll be a diva and decide they're too good for you (at which point they're unlikely to want to run with you in the future). Either way, you win, so long as your attitude stays positive.

[LafoMamone]

He pointed out a hypocritical flaw in that logic, and you defended it with "Well, THEY'VE gotta learn a lesson somehow"

Sorry, double standards are never right.

Unless he was being sarcastic, it seemed that he agreed that the healer should carry a remove curse wand, which I disagreed with. What double standard are you talking about?

[LafoMamone]

There's a balance. Good players support each other, and newer players need to learn how this works. A good cleric in DDO will try to look out for the fighter, and a good fighter will try to make the cleric's job easier.

You teach that to newer players by showing them. Try to support them, and if they're sucking up more SP than they should, hold back. Play the fool if you have to; "Oh, I'm sorry. I'm trying, but you'll have to play more conservatively if you want me to keep up with the healing." Either they'll figure it out, or they'll be a diva and decide they're too good for you (at which point they're unlikely to want to run with you in the future). Either way, you win, so long as your attitude stays positive.

I wish things were as smooth as you describe them. Sadly, they are not.

Why is it so hard for new players to make good use of the forums and wiki? Maybe it's just my habit, but when I get interested in a game and just before I start actively playing it, I make sure to do plenty of research on the game itself. It makes everyone's job easier; mine, and those I quest with.

But if you can't take a little bit of time to look up some simple facts, like widespread and cheap availability of pots to make your healer's life easier, then I really don't see why I should have sympathy for your "plight", especially if you are screaming at me over mic.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

And it is not your place to teach others a lesson you think they need to learn when they have not asked for it.

I agree.

Help if you can. if you can't, then don't worry about it. (but don't go broke on stupidity either....and sometimes triage is necessary...)

but dont be purposefully mean or trying to teach them a lesson.

[smeggy1384]

Could you explain to me what is so hard to understand about this sentence in the OP:



It pretty clearly suggests he intentionally stopped healing the guy because he wasn't removing his curse. Seems like I'm not the one with reading problems here...

Back before you posted on the first part there the OP had admitted they thought it was a healing curse on them causing the reduced healing. That was somewhere between the first post and where you had posted that they corrected themselves about kobolds having the half healing curse. The part you quoted he said he had healed the fellow but they immediately got hit again so there was very little hitpoints gained. Chances are someone there needs to quit rushing into more mobs and give the healer a chance to get their health up before they cause a group wipe.

If you want to quote several posts at a time go ahead, just do it all at once not after the fact.

In the end its like the healer using all of their SP keeping the WF with zero heal amp up rather than spending that same amount of SP to keep the other 5 in the group up. They thought this player had a -50% heal curse on them, chose not to heal someone who required double the work to keep up. Its more SP efficient to just not waste the SP.

[LafoMamone]

I agree.

Help if you can. if you can't, then don't worry about it. (but don't go broke on stupidity either....and sometimes triage is necessary...)

but dont be purposefully mean or trying to teach them a lesson.

If you or Zachski think I was being mean, then you both missed my point by a mile.

[wax_on_wax_off]

It is funny the sequence here. First the OP talks about Healing Curse in butchers path and is quickly corrected by people telling him that there isn't and that he should be using remove curse wands on his level 4 cleric which no one else notices until the OP corrects them.

I really shouldn't play another divine, I'm quite sure I would be hated for my lack of attention to others red bars (as it's easier to just go do the quest myself).

[Zachski]

The only issue I have with the OP is with the fact that he didn't heal him, thinking it was a healing curse.

However, that's already been established, so there was no point in repeating it.

That being said, no excuse for the TR'd character. While remove curse potions aren't necessarily easy to keep stocked on a first life character at those levels, a TR'd character should have more than enough platinum to handle it.

My issue with the other guy, though, is that he's essentially saying everybody but the divine should be required to carry consumables. Everyone should be required to carry it in the most efficient form possible. For most classes, it's potions, but for the divine, it's a wand. Even if it's just to use on himself/herself, but then, why not use it on others?

I imagine a single wand could probably last awhile, especially if a smart melee chugs a potion before the divine (dilly) has a chance to whip the wand out.

[Gurei]

The only issue I have with the OP is with the fact that he didn't heal him, thinking it was a healing curse.

However, that's already been established, so there was no point in repeating it.

That being said, no excuse for the TR'd character. While remove curse potions aren't necessarily easy to keep stocked on a first life character at those levels, a TR'd character should have more than enough platinum to handle it.

My issue with the other guy, though, is that he's essentially saying everybody but the divine should be required to carry consumables. Everyone should be required to carry it in the most efficient form possible. For most classes, it's potions, but for the divine, it's a wand. Even if it's just to use on himself/herself, but then, why not use it on others?

I imagine a single wand could probably last awhile, especially if a smart melee chugs a potion before the divine (dilly) has a chance to whip the wand out.

In my experiences, I've been able to get umd high enough for remove curse wand usage, but I found it incredibly slow and also much harder to share (there'll always be someone in that VoD missing some, it just happens, people run out, etc.). Honestly, on my Wiz I think I'm down to like 30 (started with 80 or so) and I probably used 10 or 15 of those. I'm not saying pots are mandatory, so I agree with what you're saying, I just encourage everyone to carry 40 pots (less if you have other means of removing) just so if someone DOES run out, you can help them out and make whichever quest you're doing much easier.

Wands are obviously a step above trading pots mid-fight, but if everyone has enough pots and it's pure neglect on the fighter's part, that cleric on him pulling out that wand will increase his chance of death due to heals not necessarily targeting him.

[mobrien316]

I have always found pots more efficient than wands.


If you get a curse, click on pot, curse is gone.

Or...
If you get a curse, click on wand to swap your weapon for the wand, click on wand again to activate it, click on weapon set to re-arm yourself.


Plus, I can carry 100 pots in one slot, or use two slots to carry two wands with 50 charges each.

[LafoMamone]

My issue with the other guy, though, is that he's essentially saying everybody but the divine should be required to carry consumables.

Not what I said at all. I always carry pots, regardless of what class I play.



Everyone should be required to carry it in the most efficient form possible. For most classes, it's potions, but for the divine, it's a wand. Even if it's just to use on himself/herself, but then, why not use it on others?

Swapping back and forth between a wand and something that actually helps the divine (such as a weapon or a devotion item) is quite time-consuming, cumbersome, and overall inefficient. At these low levels it is more helpful to contribute to dps and healing, but taking care of every single ailment on demand simply perpetuates bad playing habits that persist through TRs (as evident from OPs post).


I imagine a single wand could probably last awhile, especially if a smart melee chugs a potion before the divine (dilly) has a chance to whip the wand out.

Yeah, especially if this whole time we've been talking about a not-so-smart melee, which is the reason for this thread in the first place.

[Sgt_Hart]

Swapping back and forth between a wand and something that actually helps the divine (such as a weapon or a devotion item) is quite time-consuming, cumbersome, and overall inefficient. At these low levels it is more helpful to contribute to dps and healing.

This is why my divine carries 100 & change curse potions, All bound.

Well that and... going into VoD I typically stated "/p I have <Linked Curse Potions> so I hope you don't expect me to be wasting SP on your curses." or /p "When the cleric carries <Linked Curse Potions> into the quest, you probably want to have more." Or something to a similar effect as soon as the group fills.

9 out of my last 10 runs.. someone was at <20

[Postumus]

Except that people will never learn to be even the least bit self-sufficient that way. They will always demand that things be done their way, and that you bend over backwards for the sake of their comfort and laziness.

Catering to people like that does not create good players.

This has not been my experience. I have encountered numerous new players who do not realize how self-sufficient they can be, or do not have much plat. As they learn more, they learn to caary more pots and items. Not all (as the TR in the OP indicates), but many in my experience.

I do not believe that tough love is as effective overall as "help now, educate later."

[FranOhmsford]

It was Butcher's Path!

We're not talking about VoD here!

It was a Lvl 2 quest on Elite {for Bravery I assume}.

OK I should have realised Wands weren't available to the cleric at that level.

BUT the TRd Fighter could easily have left any Curse Pots in his TR cache to pick up later - He's not suddenly a bad player because he doesn't have remove curse pots at lvl 4 {unless he's running Necro that is}.

He shouldn't have had a go at the cleric for not removing his curse {obviously} but the cleric should have known it wasn't a healing curse and therefore made no difference whatsoever to his healing of that fighter {as indeed should the fighter}.

[Micki]

Empower heal + superior ardor clickes = wf healing not a problem (unless they're immune). :) When Thaz was gimp around lvl 10 I just refused to heal wf, because it was too sp expensive. After a greater reincaration, getting empower heal and always using superior ardor, I am having no more problems healing wf than I am having healing a 1000hp tank to 100% (yes I've seen them/run with them)

Oh, but zerging barbs who blame the cleric? Just let them all die...

Oh, but playing healer on the lower levels? Never did it :) so, I don't know. (did start Thaz at lvl 1, but I didn't start playing healer until running the Phiarlan chain, I think, when Thaz was lvl 7).

[BuyTiles]

I recently TR'd my fighter, whose first life was as a cleric, into another cleric. I like playing clerics, but in his twenty levels as a fighter I must have forgotten some of the drama that comes along with the role as "healer."


Last night in an elite run of Butcher's Path, a fighter got cursed. I didn't notice the curse at first and threw him a cure, which did practically nothing. He was yelping for another cure and I told him to drink a curse pot (which I believe are ML 1). He said he doesn't carry curse pots because "that's why we have clerics!"

I told him level 4 clerics don't have access to level three spells, and he told me I should be carrying a wand... Then he kept yelping for more cures.


Realizing this would not go over well, but also believing it would ultimately wind up helping him, I told him I wasn't going to heal him any longer while he was cursed, but that I would be happy to carry his stone to the shrine after he died (which occurred shortly thereafter.)

As politely as I could, I told him that he is responsible for carrying curse pots and that healers are just wasting SP by curing him while he is cursed. I also told him he should be carrying poison pots and cure disease pots, and he loudly disagreed with me. When my character was a fighter I carried a stack of 100 of just about every type of pot there is, and my current cleric has pretty much the same.

If he was a brand-new player I would have been a bit less surprised, but he had wings next to his name. I don't know how he got to 20 if he doesn't carry pots and thinks that the cleric is responsible for everything...


Anyway... He either learned a lesson or he thinks I'm a jerk and he squelched me.

This is so funny for so many reasons...
Needing a healer for butchers path...on a TR, or honestly any build with access to CSW pots :eek:
Not having cure pots...or remove curse pots...
And having the cheek to say anything rather than being ashamed is amazing.

Remember, soul stones are very light and can be carried comfortably in any pocket or pouch.

As a side note, I'd never remove anyones curse, poison or disease unless there as a very good reason (vod tank etc). I might not even heal, but that would depend on my mood.

[PNellesen]

Empower heal + superior ardor clickes = wf healing not a problem

Ummm.... yeah :(

*My Clerics are sobbing in a corner now and don't know why*

[brickwall]

The Moral Of This Story Is You Cant Rely On Anyone Like You Can Rely On Your Self. I Generally Carry Over 2000 Various Potions And Scrolls. Someone Else Healing Me Is Really Great But You Should Not Be Expecting Or Relying On Anyone.

[SableShadow]

I do not believe that tough love is as effective overall as "help now, educate later."

I agree.
"Tough love" starts with the assumption "I know best"; that is often not the case.

For example "I can't heal you because you have a kobold curse over your head.", which then got derailed into who has to carry the curse pots, which was irrelevant to the actual problem ... which seems to be someone was taking too much damage, too fast.

In some ways it's a Catch 22. Speak up when you see something wrong, it could be *you* that is wrong. Don't speak up, and something totally borked may just keep on happening. /shrug

[Truga]

I really shouldn't play another divine, I'm quite sure I would be hated for my lack of attention to others red bars (as it's easier to just go do the quest myself).

I have this same problem too on my FvS, which is why I'm now consdering doing my next life as a cleric. WF of course.

I also intend to not get any cure spells until I hit level 11, when I get heal. Repair serious pots and radiant bursts should work just fine.

I wonder how much rage that will generate :awesomelon:

[firemedium_jt]

I will say it again. You get more with candy than sour milk. I don't know what guild u guys are in, but if mine got wind I was dropping soul stones in lava they would not be happy.

Just carry some curse pots to hand out as generosity. Lead by example.

Before you act like a 10 year old remember that the person you are ****ed at might be 10 years old. This is just a game. Try not to forget that. I think some of you have.

[LafoMamone]

This has not been my experience. I have encountered numerous new players who do not realize how self-sufficient they can be, or do not have much plat. As they learn more, they learn to caary more pots and items. Not all (as the TR in the OP indicates), but many in my experience.

I do not believe that tough love is as effective overall as "help now, educate later."

I wish I could be as optimistic, but playing on Sarlona, which generally has one of the worst pug scenes in DDO, taught me differently.

While I am eager to help those who want to learn and ask questions, I have seen far too many ignorant (and arrogant) people treating others horribly because of their own mistakes. Especially a mistake like not carrying pots, which IMO should be just as a no-brainer as using a weapon/spell.

[Enoach]

I wish I could be as optimistic, but playing on Sarlona, which generally has one of the worst pug scenes in DDO, taught me differently.

While I am eager to help those who want to learn and ask questions, I have seen far too many ignorant (and arrogant) people treating others horribly because of their own mistakes. Especially a mistake like not carrying pots, which IMO should be just as a no-brainer as using a weapon/spell.

Just breath and remember both ignorance and arrogance can be corrected, differently of course, but both can be corrected.

Ignorance is corrected through education - Example many never play a class and thus don't know what its capabilities are at any level - this even includes multiple TRs. They specialize in only one area. Education about ML, potions dropping in breakables, hoarding of consumables etc. can occur and thus place these people in a place where they understand WHY they should have some form of self preservation.

Arrogance requires a much harder line. Even to the point of cutting off support so that the other 1 to 5 characters in the group can also have fun.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

The Moral Of This Story Is You Cant Rely On Anyone Like You Can Rely On Your Self. I Generally Carry Over 2000 Various Potions And Scrolls. Someone Else Healing Me Is Really Great But You Should Not Be Expecting Or Relying On Anyone.

:)









(and he plays a Ranger!)

[Mubjon]

Was it just you and him?

If so good on ya.

If not why the heck did you drop party? What had the rest of them done to you?

Why didn't you just type /ignore add .... or right click him in chat and hit ignore?

It was a group and what did they do? Nothing in particular, but if the leader is not going to step in and help me handle it after 5 to 10 minutes of dealing with the kid. I do not need that group :) My playtime is usually short and I do not have the time to babysit people that cannot seem to understand what is going on.

The failure of the Leader to at the minimum speak up to tell the sorc to stop tossing out fireballs and grabbing the aggro of 5 or more level 12 to 16 mobs lead me to believe that once we got into the Cove the Sorc would have lead to a disaster of me having to stay next to him to keep him up. Having to neglect others in the party or worse neglecting running the line or clearing the corridors if that was to be my job that time out.

If the sorc had not demanded a raise after saying **** cleric I might have had a different attitude. But, blaming me for your (the sorc not you) ignorance was just more than I could handle with the 2 hours I had to play that day :)

[Mubjon]

I will say it again. You get more with candy than sour milk. I don't know what guild u guys are in, but if mine got wind I was dropping soul stones in lava they would not be happy.

Just carry some curse pots to hand out as generosity. Lead by example.

Before you act like a 10 year old remember that the person you are ****ed at might be 10 years old. This is just a game. Try not to forget that. I think some of you have.

My generosity is great, I pug :) how much more generous should I be?

[Zachski]

I agree.
"Tough love" starts with the assumption "I know best"; that is often not the case.


And that's precisely the attitude I was having problems with.

And why I spoke up :D

That being said, I can see I was wrong about the Remove Curse wands. They really aren't that easy to use. Oh well.

[Jsbeer]

I have this same problem too on my FvS, which is why I'm now consdering doing my next life as a cleric. WF of course.

I also intend to not get any cure spells until I hit level 11, when I get heal. Repair serious pots and radiant bursts should work just fine.

I wonder how much rage that will generate :awesomelon:

Nice try BUT unfortunately clerics get Cure spells automatically as they level up ;)

Guess you will just have to do it with an FvS...........

[LafoMamone]

And that's precisely the attitude I was having problems with.

And why I spoke up :D

Except that you did so rather callously, without understanding the full meaning of my post.


That being said, I can see I was wrong about the Remove Curse wands. They really aren't that easy to use. Oh well.

Heh...and all this after telling me it's not my place to teach others a lesson. Happy to have taught you something anyway. :p

[Zachski]

Except that you did so rather callously, without understanding the full meaning of my post.

So you didn't say "They won't learn anything that way"?

You could be teaching a good lesson, but have a bad attitude, and it just ruins the entire thing.



Heh...and all this after telling me it's not my place to teach others a lesson. Happy to have taught you something anyway. :p

An example of a bad attitude.

Thanks for that :P

[LafoMamone]

So you didn't say "They won't learn anything that way"?

Nope. I said they won't learn to be self-sufficient that way, and I stand by it. I still see the same players asking for the same things and making same mistakes half a year after I first noticed them.


You could be teaching a good lesson, but have a bad attitude, and it just ruins the entire thing.

An example of a bad attitude.

Thanks for that :P

Says the guy who tells me what is or isn't my place simply because he disagrees with my opinion, but fails to elaborate or offer a better alternative.

Yup, I'm done here.

[Gazkhul]

Heh i Carry most cure pots as a cleric, and at low level I rarely if ever carry cure spells in the limited slots available...there are many more useful spells I need at that point. Once I hit the shroud, I made GS bracers of Negative Energy (I think that's what its called) and suddenly I am immune to everything except curses and no deathward. Deathward is easily found (or crafted) onto other items, so that leaves only needing curse pots...and SP pots maybe lol

[wax_on_wax_off]

Heh i Carry most cure pots as a cleric, and at low level I rarely if ever carry cure spells in the limited slots available...there are many more useful spells I need at that point. Once I hit the shroud, I made GS bracers of Negative Energy (I think that's what its called) and suddenly I am immune to everything except curses and no deathward. Deathward is easily found (or crafted) onto other items, so that leaves only needing curse pots...and SP pots maybe lol

By the time you can wear those bracers you have more than enough spell slots to fit all the remove/cure effect spells and even though everyone should have them for themself you need to have them for them too (people run out, newbs don't know, whatever).

Unless this was your third GS item (after something like conc-opp HP item and airguard SP item) then it seems a horrible waste (still a waste on a cleric but if you have extra cleansers then you can do as you like :).

[phalaeo]

restore and greater restore are the only way to remove negative levels besides resting at a shrine and they don't come in potion form.


You can get potions of Restoration at the Mabar festival. I grabbed a stack of 100 and it lasted me all year on my Bard.

http://ddowiki.com/images/Gloomy_Potion_of_Restoration.png

[ZennyoTheWise]

For those who are new, Mabar Festival normally happens around Halloween and occurs once a year. If you are lucky it hits twice and you can stock up on those nice potions that give 100% damage to light spells as well.

[Mubjon]

You can get potions of Restoration at the Mabar festival. I grabbed a stack of 100 and it lasted me all year on my Bard.

http://ddowiki.com/images/Gloomy_Potion_of_Restoration.png

As a cleric the Burst will remove the negative levels and stat damage too, 1 to 4 of each if I remember right with each burst.

[Habreno]

As a cleric the Burst will remove the negative levels and stat damage too, 1 to 4 of each if I remember right with each burst.

1d4 neg levels and the healing. It does minor stat damage removal (1d6) but does not do poision/disease/blindness/etc.

[Orratti]

I carry a small bunch of those pots around but usually don't use them. Just wait for the poison, curse, bane, stat damage or whatever to wear off. They don't usually have much effect anyway. Level draining and blindness are about all there is to worry about until you start running into mummy rot and worse things.

So there was no need to remove his curse for either of you and no real reason to get upset enough to stop healing him but he should have had his own cure pots as well.

[PopeJual]

1 wand also takes up less space than 2 soul stones and they have the added bonus of being able to use them on oneself. I find it more efficient space-wise to carry the wands.

It's more entertaining to carry the soul stones, though.

Also, you can do fun party tricks like dropping the soul stones 11 seconds away from the shrine.