Sorc Savant Advice

[Target-Practice100]

Hi,

I have a level 18, first life, 32 point WF sorc, and I need some advice on the right savant to choose. The build is based off this Standard Sorc Builds post: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=361303

My current chosen savant is water, which is fine for some content, but can be a bit of a problem when soloing, especially when facing undead. So I am thinking of switching to earth for the acid spells. My question is, will acid be a problem for things like Shroud, Reavers and such like? I do not do epic content on this toon, but I would like a toon that can still deal out decent damage, but hopefully to a wider range of mobs.

[rayworks]

I have a capped first life sorc who is an air savant with water secondary. I haven't really had any issues at this level; most mobs where I go are immune or resistant to fire so I don't lose much not having lots of fire spells.

I would think that water/earth would be very viable, with some caveats. Earth doesn't have any real DoTs like air and water do, so you'll want to make sure you take those spells. Also, there are some play style changes for Earth savants; most Earth spells don't kill very fast and that may change some of your tactics.

You can go water savant, just spend some enhancement points in the earth line (and force if you can afford it) and rock on.

[Sithias]

I would think that water/earth would be very viable, with some caveats. Earth doesn't have any real DoTs like air and water do, so you'll want to make sure you take those spells. Also, there are some play style changes for Earth savants; most Earth spells don't kill very fast and that may change some of your tactics.


Earth has Melf's Acid Arrow and Black Dragon Bolt, not to mention the SLA versions of Acid Blast (not a DoT) and Melf's that you get as an Earth Savant. BDB is probably the best dot in the game and I don't know a wizard or sorc that doesn't carry that spell because its simply that good. Acid Rain is a very good AoE and combined with Ice Storm and Web makes any Earth Savant a killing machine. My sorc also carries the lightning DoT and the ice DoT as well for when they will be effective.

[MsEricka]

BDB is probably the best dot in the game and I don't know a wizard or sorc that doesn't carry that spell because its simply that good.

My sorc doesn't. So now you know one.

Stay cold savant, and use electricity as a backup.

[tekkentroop]

Black Dragon Bolt isnt "that good". My wiz has it, but only because shes cold/acid specced and it helps against cold/lightning immunes like skeletons and liches. I wouldnt think about calling it "best dot in the game" or "must-have spell", its just an option for special situations. Against most bosses I just use Niacs and Eladars despite having less AP in the electricity line than in the acid line. The bread and butter damage spell of lvl 20 acid spec is still acid rain.

[MRMechMan]

My thoughts:

Air:Very save dependent. "wings" are amazing though and antiknockdown is great. But, honestly, I wouldn't do it without multiple sorc PLs and gear-both ball lightning and chain lightning are just too save dependent-even with solid fog a near 40 DC is needed. Highest survivability

Water:Top DPS for sure. Not save dependent really. Icy prison is meh. But polar ray gains the most from the savant boost, and if you want boss dps, go water savant. Highest DPS

Earth: Not top DPS. Not even close really once you have played air or water. But earthgrab is amazing, a 44 DC locks down most orange names, and a 48+ DC is just overkill. Can CC any one non-red/purple named forever. Combined with potentially decent webs makes earth best CC. Acid rain is also amazing. BDB is OK. Saying it is better than niacs/eladars is pretty funny though. Best CC

In bold are my overall opinions. I am sure other people disagree but that is just what I got out of playing each savant as WF at cap. Honestly, anything but fire is pretty viable endgame.

[Alex301]

I would just suggest putting more points into different elements. You want to boost electrical anyway for eldar's electric surge. I also put some points into acid and with 3 elements you don't have to worry about immunities much.

[wax_on_wax_off]

My sorcerer was earth savant for a long time and I really lived it. The extra HP and balance helped survivability nicely and the CC from web and earth grab was great. Damage and overall usefulness in epic quests was the better than what any other savant could offer on a first life toon I think but it really slowed down in elite devil content where acid resistance got quite high (normal/hard is fine though). Acid is great for DQ and Abbit so could choice if you want that caster gear (and unless you have it you should want it).

I switched over to water savant though and I'm a convert, main reason was just for Cannith Challenges though (yugoloth are immune to acid).

When I finish my 3 wiz PL's I might try out air more thoroughly and I might even end up back at earth (for web DCs synergy).

[gravestones]

My thoughts:

Air:Very save dependent. "wings" are amazing though and antiknockdown is great. But, honestly, I wouldn't do it without multiple sorc PLs and gear-both ball lightning and chain lightning are just too save dependent-even with solid fog a near 40 DC is needed. Highest survivability

Water:Top DPS for sure. Not save dependent really. Icy prison is meh. But polar ray gains the most from the savant boost, and if you want boss dps, go water savant. Highest DPS

Earth: Not top DPS. Not even close really once you have played air or water. But earthgrab is amazing, a 44 DC locks down most orange names, and a 48+ DC is just overkill. Can CC any one non-red/purple named forever. Combined with potentially decent webs makes earth best CC. Acid rain is also amazing. BDB is OK. Saying it is better than niacs/eladars is pretty funny though. Best CC

In bold are my overall opinions. I am sure other people disagree but that is just what I got out of playing each savant as WF at cap. Honestly, anything but fire is pretty viable endgame.

I would echo the above assessment, particularly the qualification of BDB...

Having played a variety of caster builds (wiz/fvs/sorc) I can say that my WF sorc/monk air savant (a build perfected by Erethe here on Orien) is by far the most durable, and also very fun to play. Far from being a simple dps bot, it is a self sufficient off-tank/tank, CC-kiter, and has been used to routinely solo-farm virtually every epic quest, self-heal and tank everything up to Horoth, as well as solo eChrono.

Worth checking out if you want to try something a little different.

[Isharah]

My question is, will acid be a problem for things like Shroud, Reavers and such like? I do not do epic content on this toon, but I would like a toon that can still deal out decent damage, but hopefully to a wider range of mobs.

Water primary with earth secondary is pretty solid DPS-wise. It's a very good combination since at the higher levels, you probably won't run across anything that's immune to both.

Liches and lich-wannabe monsters are immune to both water and air, so for your purposes, it's best to not use this combination.

[EvilI]

I would like to point out the usefullness of doubling Ice Storm + Acid Rain or Fire Wall + Acid rain for groups of trash mobs especially on a first life toon. For that reason I think "every" water- or fire savant should put a fair amount of enhamncement points into acid, and vice versa.

Since Niac's biting cold and Eladar's electric surge coupled with Polar Ray are your bread and butter versus single targets (ie bosses), air should also get it's share of enhancements if you go water, and the other way around. Some advocate taking both spells even if your savant line is of an opposite element (fire or earth).

I've gone with 7/5/5 enhancements on my primary element regardless of if it was water or air and 7/1/1 on the adjacent ones. I find that to work fairly well and give me good degree of versatiltiy versus resistant/immune enemies.

Being a warforged should make affect your desicion more towards earth or water since the extra constitution becomes a positive factor there, and spell dc:s (charisma) are more of an issue for air.

[Target-Practice100]

Thank you everyone for your advice. I think the suggestions for going water and acid sounds like a good place to start. The question I now have about this is the proportion of action points to put into each. Currently I have all 3 tiers of water savant. Would I be right in thinking that a good approach would be to have the first 2 tiers of water savant, and put the left over points into acid enhancements? Or should I split the points up between water, earth, and elec (for elders?). I suppose this raises the question should I take more than the first level of water savant?

The other issue in this for me is spell slots, and the need to give up some for the acid spells. Currently I have a mix of damage spells and buff / utility spells. Which spells would you consider essential for such a build? My main damage spells are Frost Lance and Polar Ray for ranged, Ice Storm for AOE (Which I don't find so good), Niacs and Eldars for bosses, and Freezing Sphere (my best general DPS spell). Assuming I kept these, which acid spells are best? Acid rain seems like its essential, and I like the idea of combining it with Ice Storm, as by itself Ice storm has been less than expected. But which others should I consider?

[MRMechMan]

Whichever savant you choose, take all 3 teirs of it. Teir3 savant, like most teir3 prestige classes, is a pretty big power leap.

7/5/5 ice
7/1/1 elec
X/1/1 acid (x=as much as you can).

At endgame it is mostly boss nuking to be honest...acid rain is amazing but in epics it is much less effective due to it's high cost and short duration...one acid rain won't kill epic mobs, whereas from 7-18 it will. The 30s of ice storm are much more "cost effective".

And if you are going full R3t@rd (as a sorc you are allowed to do this, ignore robert downey jr.), acid rain is minor dps compared to niacs/eladars/polar/frost lance etc etc.

[Iaga]

I'm going to chime in here and muddy the waters a bit.

I've been playing a WF earthy [cold b-up] with PL cleric at cap for some time now. Between web/grab for cc, 260 pt stone skin, slow/steady/efficient spell point use, he did very well in a large variety of quests.

After reading this thread i thought i'd swap out enhancements/spells and give elec/cold a try. For me, the survivability wasn't as strong. The cc was worse and i found myself running through spell points way faster [too fast in most cases sadly]

As an earthy, you're still going to do reasonable damage. The added survivability is great for most players and unless you know exactly how to spend your SP in every quest, having a little wiggle room is very handy.

[Isharah]

After reading this thread i thought i'd swap out enhancements/spells and give elec/cold a try. For me, the survivability wasn't as strong. The cc was worse and i found myself running through spell points way faster [too fast in most cases sadly]

If you're used to earth, you'll say air is too expensive.

If you're used to air, you'll say earth is too slow.

If you're used to water, everything else sucks.

If you're used to fire, go play D3.

(jk :D)

It's first and foremost a matter of choosing your priorities: efficiency, survivability, versatility, DPS output.

[ZennyoTheWise]

I would echo the above assessment, particularly the qualification of BDB...

Having played a variety of caster builds (wiz/fvs/sorc) I can say that my WF sorc/monk air savant (a build perfected by Erethe here on Orien) is by far the most durable, and also very fun to play. Far from being a simple dps bot, it is a self sufficient off-tank/tank, CC-kiter, and has been used to routinely solo-farm virtually every epic quest, self-heal and tank everything up to Horoth, as well as solo eChrono.

Worth checking out if you want to try something a little different.



Please post a link to the build.


.

[Iaga]

If you're used to earth, you'll say air is too expensive.

If you're used to air, you'll say earth is too slow.

If you're used to water, everything else sucks.

If you're used to fire, go play D3.

(jk :D)

It's first and foremost a matter of choosing your priorities: efficiency, survivability, versatility, DPS output. Touche! And it's a good point. All of my casters are built for survivability via largely passive mechanisms. Shields n DR are my bread and butter.

I do think newer arcanes will benefit more from passive benefits than active ones like enhanced mobility though.

[Sloth4]

Please post a link to the build.


.

It's a secret!!

o.O

[Saravis]

Air Savant is fun and fast paced.
Water Savant is the most solidly damage based.
Earth Savant is DoT heavy.

[zenguitar]

I'm glad I stumbled on this thread I was wondering some of the same stuff. I currently have a 19 earth savant with ice as a secondary. I was thinking of switching to air savant since I've heard their dps is higher than earth and I think the knockdown immunity and flying thing sound really cool too. But after reading this thread I'm starting think going water savant with acid and elec could be an even better combo. One thing I'd be very interested in seeing, from you guys who are experienced playing the various types of savants, what spells would you choose? For example if you did a water savant with some acid and elec splashed in, what would be the must have spells. Choosing spells just for a primary and secondary can be hard enough, but adding in a bit of a third seems like a really tight squeeze, unless you are just talking having 1 elec spell and 1 acid spell (I presume Eladar's and Acid rain might be those two). More feedback on spell selection would be appreciated. I just found a dragon's blood thingy last night so I'm pretty much ready to pop that and do a full conversion to something different, just to try a different spec.

[Warspell]

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=357648
I have studied every creature and boss list I could get my eyes on and as far as I can tell lightning spells with a fire back up seems to have the least limits as well as be one of the most powerful combinations. Don't like dps this builds covers the basic needs to necro and cc.

[FuzzyDuck81]

My personal favourite is earth savant with cold as secondary, but a large chunk of that is because it isnt all that amazingly geared yet (other characters been taking priority), so having DoTs that work on most enemies & dont have saves is a big plus for me... earthgrab is really nice for CC, plus theyre helpless for that follow-up BDB, acid arrow & acid blast to hit even harder :)

The second part of why i like earth savant is for grinding out crafting ingredients in the vale, sleeping dust is a doddle when you can just nuke your way through it rather than worry about that whole careful targeting malarkey :D

[Turtlsdown]

Currently have been playing around a bit with Air, Water, and Earth savant up to early mid-level range. Was just wondering: is Fire savant pretty much a no-go (i.e. useless) for now?

[MRMechMan]

Currently have been playing around a bit with Air, Water, and Earth savant up to early mid-level range. Was just wondering: is Fire savant pretty much a no-go (i.e. useless) for now?

At low levels fire is probably the easiest to level. Either fire or acid.

At mid levels fire is still a good choice.

At high levels, if you run content that most people do, fire is a bad choice due to immunities.

At cap, same story. Just too many things are immune to justify being a fire savant.

[Turtlsdown]

At low levels fire is probably the easiest to level. Either fire or acid.

At mid levels fire is still a good choice.

At high levels, if you run content that most people do, fire is a bad choice due to immunities.

At cap, same story. Just too many things are immune to justify being a fire savant.

I wonder if fire could be made more relevant if monsters are created for epic levels that are not immune in future expansions after this upcoming one.

[Maxallu]

this hate on Fire Savants is just silly. Just finished 11th life on main the other day as a sorc and stayed fire sorc the whole time. Elec and acid backup. Fire worked just fine. You guys act like everything is imune to fire. after lvl 14. It's silly.

[AsherStar]

my sorc is level 9 and just got his first savant enhancement, but he's a water savant with force back-up. with the right off-hand weapon sonic blast is just awesome

[MRMechMan]

this hate on Fire Savants is just silly. Just finished 11th life on main the other day as a sorc and stayed fire sorc the whole time. Elec and acid backup. Fire worked just fine. You guys act like everything is imune to fire. after lvl 14. It's silly.

Not everything is immune to fire, but enough is that I question the judgement of anyone who acts like it is the best choice for 14+

Level 14+ (12+ quests):
Fire immune mobs:
relic of sov past
ADQ1/2
invaders!
chains of flame
tor*
PoP
Temple of vol*
Inferno*
litany*
rainbow*
ritual
running with the devils*
servents of the overlord
coal chamber
enter the kobold*
stealer of souls
sane asylum
VOD
shroud
all amrath* (*sins)

Acid immune mobs:
Delirium
sleeping dust (which is a good thing)

Cold immune mobs:
invaders!
wizking*
PoP
litany*
servents of the overlord?
Lords of dust? (skeles at end?)
prey on the hunter
stealer of souls
sane asylum*

Elec Immune mobs:
ADQ1/2
fleshmakers*
ghosts of p*
reavers fate

(by no means a complete list)
*=commonly/possibly farmed quest while TRing

If you generally skip chains of flame and vol and inferno and tor and litany as well as most of the vale, all of amrath and enter the kobold, fire spec is the one for you.

Otherwise, choose something else.

Is it POSSIBLE to stay fire savant? Of course.

Is it ideal? Far from it

I for one hope the expansion has zero fire immune mobs...as of right now it just isn't an option IMO.

[Maxallu]

Not everything is immune to fire, but enough is that I question the judgement of anyone who acts like it is the best choice for 14+

Level 14+ (12+ quests):
Fire immune mobs:
relic of sov past
ADQ1/2
invaders!
chains of flame
tor*
PoP
Temple of vol*
Inferno*
litany*
rainbow*
ritual
running with the devils*
servents of the overlord
coal chamber
enter the kobold*
stealer of souls
sane asylum
VOD
shroud
all amrath* (*sins)

Acid immune mobs:
Delirium
sleeping dust (which is a good thing)

Cold immune mobs:
invaders!
wizking*
PoP
litany*
servents of the overlord?
Lords of dust? (skeles at end?)
prey on the hunter
stealer of souls
sane asylum*

Elec Immune mobs:
ADQ1/2
fleshmakers*
ghosts of p*
reavers fate

(by no means a complete list)
*=commonly/possibly farmed quest while TRing

If you generally skip chains of flame and vol and inferno and tor and litany as well as most of the vale, all of amrath and enter the kobold, fire spec is the one for you.

Otherwise, choose something else.

Is it POSSIBLE to stay fire savant? Of course.

Is it ideal? Far from it

I for one hope the expansion has zero fire immune mobs...as of right now it just isn't an option IMO.

Ran all that content. No problems. And I dominated. Some just can't hack it I suppose.

[wax_on_wax_off]

this hate on Fire Savants is just silly. Just finished 11th life on main the other day as a sorc and stayed fire sorc the whole time. Elec and acid backup. Fire worked just fine. You guys act like everything is imune to fire. after lvl 14. It's silly.

Enough is immune to fire to give a second thought about choosing it, firewall has been nerfed enough that it no longer holds pride of place (that honour goes to Acid Rain for that style of spell outside of undead content).

Hands down for leveling I go acid primary with fire secondary (adding cold when spare AP are available and swapping to cold entirely upon entering vale). At cap cold spells are too useful to be a fire savant.

Really when you get down to it both fire and acid savant really lose out at cap due to how important the stacking DotS are. Acid loses out in some elite/epic content due to high acid resistance (and comparably lower ticks on acid spells), fire loses out due to outright immunities and high resistances.

Any works, but if you're asking what is best then water all the way. All the others can shine in particular situations (multi TR'd with max necro/evocation DCs? Possibly Air. First life warforged? Possibly Earth. Don't like devil content? Possibly fire) but water is reliable and shines the most in most situations.

[MRMechMan]

Ran all that content. No problems.



Maybe you don't know the difference between adequete and ideal.




And I dominated.



TRing is easy. Even a fire sorc is still a sorc and a joke to level.



Some just can't hack it I suppose.

Classy.

Honestly, fire is best for before level 12-14 but after that it is best to spec out to air/earth/elec...any and all of which are more effective.

If you taking my advice to respec out of it as meaning I "can't hack it" then I don't know what to say to you, other than to be less confrontational and narrowminded in your posts.

[Turtlsdown]

So if you enjoy mostly low to mid content with some raids here and there, pretty much no epic, then a Fire Sorc is a viable toon to have fun with, yeh?

[goodspeed]

Fire until about lv 15. Then go ice. Acid is also good leveling but the drawback is the timer on rain. With firewall it's a base on how many times you can get em to run back and forth through it. Saves mana, hits hard lasts somewhat long, good stuff.

Now I say ice for 15 and after for one reason. Spells and dc. Even if you have the dc to overcome the bs saves everything with reflex and evasion (seems like everything including harry now) Your still stuck with the blatent lack of spells that should be there but aren't.

Ice on the other hand gives you the constant aoe of ice and bludgeon, as well as 3 ranged sla's and of course your niacs biting cold dot. (Which is why you should go electric secondary because eldars makes the points spent redeemable.) Then of course their's polar ray. But even with that you still run into the reflex saves with your sphere and snowball and such so a web and some cc to reduce the save always helps. And if you can get the dc up enough, niacs ray sla can do some pretty good dmg on a crit.

Course this is all based on devil end game content now. When new stuff is released and the devil battlefield once again belongs to the evil outsiders as id imagine most would outright bypass it, fire or earth could become a major savent when pitted against the drow and those death knights. Especially death knights. Hell even air might make a comback if they get some new spells. I saw druids had a few they should have.

[Warspell]

If we are talking end game, then air with a fire back up is by far the best. If we are talking farming for those very rare and powerful Abbott items, which all of us casters must get if we want to be the best, then fire savants are good because they are even more likely to get accepted to a Abbott burning party then the average caster. Outside of this, fire savant is not an ideal nuker.

[bartosy]

Acid immune mobs:
Delirium
sleeping dust (which is a good thing)



i like to add invaders to that list and any mobs thats immune to poison will automaticly be immune to acid damage.. the most annoying mob in the game for an acid savant is those hounds in invaders... and those hounds are fricking everwyhere.. invaders,subt,the quest where the planar gird drops.. dreams of insanity and lots lots more..

don'\t get me wrong tho acid savant is really nice.. but its def not as good as people make it out to be.. the pain with acid savant is that they need conjuration spec.. wich needs cleric past lives or epic diabloist robe the good thing about it is that its not that heavy dc dependant.. but having a 42 dc web can def rock..

if you plan ahead i would spec out of acid tho.. 3x sorc past lives are a bit easier to get then 3x cleric past lives lol.. all the pugs nightmare + your bb dc will suck if you go only cleric the first 3 lives.. and having to be a nannybot for others just seriously ticks me off..

don't get me wrong tho my end goal will be 2x cleric past lives.. thats all i can stomach and x3 sorc past lives ^^. i'd go sorc => cleric (might as well get one of the list for less exp.. then the other lives => sorc => sorc => cleric with 3x sorc past lives makes for some yummie bladebarriers.. then maybe cleric again if i can stomach it.. then back to druid ^^.

[AtomicMew]

Enough is immune to fire to give a second thought about choosing it, firewall has been nerfed enough that it no longer holds pride of place (that honour goes to Acid Rain for that style of spell outside of undead content).

Hands down for leveling I go acid primary with fire secondary (adding cold when spare AP are available and swapping to cold entirely upon entering vale). At cap cold spells are too useful to be a fire savant.

Really when you get down to it both fire and acid savant really lose out at cap due to how important the stacking DotS are. Acid loses out in some elite/epic content due to high acid resistance (and comparably lower ticks on acid spells), fire loses out due to outright immunities and high resistances.

Any works, but if you're asking what is best then water all the way. All the others can shine in particular situations (multi TR'd with max necro/evocation DCs? Possibly Air. First life warforged? Possibly Earth. Don't like devil content? Possibly fire) but water is reliable and shines the most in most situations.
Ran fire spec extensively last wiz life, and I still don't see what the fuss is about. Sirgog mentioned the wider AoE of DBF, but I'm not feeling it. What I did feel was that it's cast time is slow (not talking about the trap version) compared to otiluke's. And again, ice has a DoT while fire doesn't and frost lance is just better than scorching ray.