New PvP System

[xxHazexx]

My thoughts on a new system, after leaving the game and coming back still thinking that turbine still really has a shiny gem on there hands and developed one of the greatest games to exist the only thing thats truly missing from the game is a good pvp system with the lack of content which i understand is being worked on and i can be patient.


PvP System


Some general thoughts, players of course would have the options to "cue up" for pvp and then for those that choose not to would never have too.

Incentives: Players that choose to pvp would have the options for added bonus to guild renown, Some sort of leaderboards for the group cue and solo cue, provided daily challenges for the pvp system, medals that you could trade for gear, trade-ins for different weapon skins? ingrediants, anyway you understand what im getting at here.

Solo or Group
Players would have the options to cue up solo or group that way the groups can give guilds a chance to stack up renown and a chance to play together towards other guilds.

Games

Ship defense: Maybe have sort of a "Battleship" field so to speak when the match starts each ship would hover over the teams base with a ladder and the goal would be to invade each others base and successfully grab a guild flag and carry it back to the opposing teams airship "capture the flag" this would provide a good defense as well as a good offense for the opposing teams so it would be balanced.


Cover your bases: Players would have the opportunity to have a team death match with other players across the playing field players would have to get past like maybe npc guards as well to invade another base and the player to have survive the longest would have successfully captured the teams base and scored a point.

Free for all: A good place to relax for any tired of the grind for xp or loots player in ddo, I understand you pain so what a better place to come and unwind? Bring your friends and lets have a massive death match :D this would also give turbine the ability to work on bigger instances with more players with the new physics engine maybe for say live action events.



What are your thoughts?

Just some more food for thought, Omm Nom Nom Nom.

[MsEricka]

You lost me at PvP.. but seriously guild renown in PvP?

/HECK NO

[xxHazexx]

You lost me at PvP.. but seriously guild renown in PvP?

/HECK NO
I've noticed that players are strongly against it but pvp isn't such a bad thing in fact it's really a great activity to take part in a good majority of players generally like pvp and don't want to comment due to the opposition, Anyway for example console games proivde a good source to find player vs. player content it's also a good way to generate revenue and attract new customers who like a good pvp system that earns them bragging rights.

[Memnir]

I would not mind seeing PvP options expanded, and the games you mentioned would be nice additions. However I think that there should never be any kind of tangible reward in DDO associated with PvP. Including renown.



The best change to PvP would be putting it in it's own instance - and out of the public taverns.

[Dandonk]

If there are going to be PvP rewards, then IMO they should only affect PvP. So no renown - and renown for winning PvP matches would be too easy to exploit, I think.

Adding a second form of renown for PvP might be too complicated, but I wouldn't mind PvP giving PvP rewards. It wouldn't affect me at all then :)

[Chai]

Many games that have PVP rewards also have measures in place to prevent exploitation. Whats stopping a player from dual boxing, racking up a 100% win ratio on their desired toon, and taking full advantage of the system with no effort put in whatsoever?

[Kawai]

what he said

[madmaxhunter]

I've noticed that players are strongly against it but pvp isn't such a bad thing in fact it's really a great activity to take part in a good majority of players generally like pvp and don't want to comment due to the opposition, Anyway for example console games proivde a good source to find player vs. player content it's also a good way to generate revenue and attract new customers who like a good pvp system that earns them bragging rights.

Majority of players? Can I get hard data on that? Of the 40 or so people I know in game. There is one that's a PvPer. The other 39 hate even going into the Lobster. 1/40 does not a majority make.

[Gkar]

I think that there should never be any kind of tangible reward in DDO associated with PvP. Including renown.

The best change to PvP would be putting it in it's own instance - and out of the public taverns.

Well said.

[Delt]

Many games that have PVP rewards also have measures in place to prevent exploitation. Whats stopping a player from dual boxing, racking up a 100% win ratio on their desired toon, and taking full advantage of the system with no effort put in whatsoever?

Innovative thought... Diminishing returns.

When a suggestion is vague, lobbing criticisms of this sort is silly...unless the theory is No PvP system can prevent exploitation (bollocks).

DDO can never have real pvp (world). It can have artificial arena pvp though - instanced/queued. I wouldn't mind if there was some benefit to pvp, such as leaderboards, titles or even some cosmetic pieces. But that kinda fluff doesn't directly earn money for Turbine...so I suspect we will either see a major pvp patch (aka Monsterplay, etc) or no pvp patch. The end.

[Postumus]

I would not mind seeing PvP options expanded, and the games you mentioned would be nice additions. However I think that there should never be any kind of tangible reward in DDO associated with PvP. Including renown.


I dunno. Maybe if there was a guild round robin tourney type event where the top winners get a guild renown award. Or maybe even something that drops collectable turn ins, like the challenges, where if you collect enough of them you can turn them in for guild pots, xp pots, etc.



The best change to PvP would be putting it in it's own instance - and out of the public taverns.

Agreed.

[Postumus]

Majority of players? Can I get hard data on that? Of the 40 or so people I know in game. There is one that's a PvPer. The other 39 hate even going into the Lobster. 1/40 does not a majority make.

Self-selection. If you were a PvPer, 39 of the 40 players you knew might also enjoy PvP. Only Turbine could know for sure.

[xxHazexx]

I would not mind seeing PvP options expanded, and the games you mentioned would be nice additions. However I think that there should never be any kind of tangible reward in DDO associated with PvP. Including renown.



The best change to PvP would be putting it in it's own instance - and out of the public taverns.

I appreciate the responses, Mem i have to agree i see the issue with my suggestion with the guild renown however some sort of pvp gear would be cool for pvp use only and arena's are already a private instance and there sort of a cue there but the general ddo community on any server hardly realizes it exists. Just needs a general re work. Let's make some progress!

[Niv-mizzet]

I think it would be kind of nice to give out guild renown in pvp. I mean it pretty much fits exactly what renown is for. "Getting well-known for doing stuff."

Have it diminish significantly over like 5 matches, to where the 6th and further in a single day give none or extremely little. (obviously with no renown for brawling, just the matches.)

I don't pvp, but I will never understand the absolute hatred it seems to draw from most of the forum. If Timmy wants his ball to be pink and he's happy with a pink ball, let it be pink. You don't gotta be all "No red is best color, pink is not allowed."

[MsEricka]

I've noticed that players are strongly against it but pvp isn't such a bad thing in fact it's really a great activity to take part in a good majority of players generally like pvp and don't want to comment due to the opposition, Anyway for example console games proivde a good source to find player vs. player content it's also a good way to generate revenue and attract new customers who like a good pvp system that earns them bragging rights.

lolwut?

Lets break this down


a good majority of players generally like pvp

I can say a good majority of dentists are addicted to cocaine if I only ask one dentist who is already addicted. You state the majority of players like PvP, but in my experience it is an extreme minority of players that I know that like PvP and the rest want it removed.


console games proivde a good source to find player vs. player content

DDO is not a console game, I honestly don't see how you can compare the two. Most console games that have pvp are pvp based or have checks and balances that make pvp "fair". DDO is not pvp based and is in no way balanced between classes.


it's also a good way to generate revenue and attract new customers who like a good pvp system

I absolutely disagree. Adding more PvP will bring more free players to the game who will continue to use resources while contributing nothing.


that earns them bragging rights.

Again with the majority/minority thing. Few people I know care about pvp and even less will care about rankings and bragging. Some may like it, and I can't take that away from them but in the end since DDO isn't a pvp game, a ranking system means very little.

[xxHazexx]

Random thought, wouldn't it be nice to have spells implemented like the Fly spell only for pvp other then just use in RR?

[Postumus]

Adding more PvP will bring more free players to the game who will continue to use resources while contributing nothing.


What facts can you possibly be basing this conclusion on?

[xxHazexx]

lolwut?

Lets break this down



I can say a good majority of dentists are addicted to cocaine if I only ask one dentist who is already addicted. You state the majority of players like PvP, but in my experience it is an extreme minority of players that I know that like PvP and the rest want it removed.



DDO is not a console game, I honestly don't see how you can compare the two. Most console games that have pvp are pvp based or have checks and balances that make pvp "fair". DDO is not pvp based and is in no way balanced between classes.



I absolutely disagree. Adding more PvP will bring more free players to the game who will continue to use resources while contributing nothing.



Again with the majority/minority thing. Few people I know care about pvp and even less will care about rankings and bragging. Some may like it, and I can't take that away from them but in the end since DDO isn't a pvp game, a ranking system means very little.


Cordovan: We offer a PvP section of the forum to allow players to discuss the various aspects of PvP they enjoy (or don't enjoy.) Players who utilize the available PvP systems in DDO should be allowed to discuss PvP in this section of the forums. To encourage this discussion, we offer this bit of advice:

If the topic is about whether PvP in general terms is good, then a player would be keeping in topic by saying they don't like PvP. However, if a player is saying "I have X comment to say about a specific part of the PvP system" that player should not have their thread disrupted by off-topic posts which amount to essentially, "I don't like PvP." A player should be allowed to make suggestions they feel would improve DDO's PvP system without having to deal with off-topic posts as well.

If your only contribution to PvP threads is that you do not like PvP in DDO, you should not be posting in threads meant to discuss certain aspects of PvP, or threads that suggest improvements to the PvP system. If your goal is to harass those who do utilize this game option, you should not be posting in these threads whatsoever.

Please allow players who want to discuss PvP in DDO to have a place to do so. Harassing people for liking PvP, or leading threads off-topic by making posts which amount to, "I don't like PvP and don't think it should be in the game" can be an infractable offense.

Remember to follow the Community Guidelines. Thanks!

This topic was created purely for suggestion on how to make ddo's pvp system better not picked apart by negativity and no "room" for improvements comments. Suggestions and general ideas appreciated as well as factual comparison on elements in the topic that logically relate argumentative discussion.

[xxHazexx]

Majority of players? Can I get hard data on that? Of the 40 or so people I know in game. There is one that's a PvPer. The other 39 hate even going into the Lobster. 1/40 does not a majority make.

I wasn't making a reference to going into the lobster and hopping from a balcony i meant the CtF maps and Arena's their pretty fun if you can get the guildies to come and other geared players that don't pws, neg lvl or dispell you.

[MsEricka]

This topic was created purely for suggestion on how to make ddo's pvp system better not picked apart by negativity and no "room" for improvements comments. Suggestions and general ideas appreciated as well as factual comparison on elements in the topic that logically relate argumentative discussion.

You missed the point of my post. You state you want "factual comparison" but yet you say the majority of players enjoy PvP while my experience is actually opposite. Your "facts" are skewed by your opinion but you are stating them as facts to attempt to win your argument.

As for the rest of your post, I am entitled to my opinion just as you are to yours. But I will not sit by while you make statements that are not based on statistics.


players that don't pws, neg lvl or dispell you.

PvP has no rules, these things are allowed ad nauseum.

[herzkos]

Along with others, I do not believe guild renown should have any part in pvp.
It would be way too easy to exploit as already mentioned.

And I concur with removing pvp from the taverns. If necessary, put in another waystation
in each house like the airship towers that will take someone directly to a pvp lounge.
The important part of this idea is that the pvp chatter is not spamming general chat in the harbor.

Since it seems that 9 times out of 10 when I load into a tavern, it's loc ends up i2049 or i2050, moving
pvpers to a different instance could also cut down on lag :).

I think the incoming "auto-grouping" function would be handy for pvp matches. Making that
the only way to join a pvp party :) would curtail some of the exploitation issues that I and others
have with gear/renown.
I'm not sure it's a great idea but I would suggest making(using) the existing maps for f2p pvp while
having other maps that you need to own the pack to do pvp in. For example, 2 parties in the catacombs quest
where you have to climb the steps. One starts at the top and the other at the bottom.
or a 3 or 4 party combat extravaganza in von 5.

Another idea could be a capture the flag game held in the Vale of Twilight. the flags are on the top of the lookout
points of the gnolls. Hehe. swimming could be an issue for assaulting the other teams flag but then again, you could go the
"death from above" routine and try to feather fall assault the enemies tree fort. :)

not a personal fan of pvp but if it makes ddo/turbine/wb more money, I'd say go for it.

[xxHazexx]

New Ideas


Suggestion box:

This would provide something new for veterans to take part in instead of the same tedious to do list and bring a whole new audience to the game as well for players that like a good pvp system.

Max lvl caps: 4, 6, 12, 18, 20

PvP entrances would be located in P2P adventure pack wilderness areas and have separate instanced maps and 1 free pvp at lvl 4 like korthos as a tutorial to newer players to learn about the system.

Have guild renown spawn every 5 hours on a odd hour that way no time zone has the advantage over the other.

Would generate revenue with more store purchases

Classes are Not balanced but every class has different advantages at different levels like a lvl 6 barb and a lvl 6 wizard the odds for the casters at low lvl are low for winning but still possible.

[Havok.cry]

I am not a fan of PvP, but it does have a niche in this game. I would not mind cosmetics as pvp rewards, but would draw the line at actual gear. Renown gain in PvP would not bother me much if it was something like heroic deeds for a solo match, the 150 pt reward for 6 man teams, and the 500 pt reward for twelve man match.

I would like to see many quest maps be used as PvP arenas. Also wildernesses. Both including trash mobs, but not bosses, both allied and enemy.

I would also think that rather than pvp missions, they should have pvevp missions. By that I mean two groups enter the quest, in seperate, but linked instances. Then everything one party does makes it harder for the other party. For example, first group clears room A before second group does, and second group's room A gets double spawns. Second group fight through the mobs but finds a secret door that first group missed. Inside is the master control for the traps in the next hall, disabling it activates additional traps in whatever room first group is in at the time. I would use a random dungeon generater for this. Both teams would be able to reach the end and recieve their reward. This would eliminate the inherent frustration of defeat that comes with normal PvP, and allow many more to enjoy it.

[Dandonk]

PvP giving PvE bonuses is, again, too easy to exploit.

But making a PvP pack might be interesting - to once and for all see if PvP is worth the effort.

PvP giving PvP benefits is fine by me. Alternative guild renown ranking system, or PvP only feats/abilities/items/whatever.

[Postumus]

PvP giving PvE bonuses is, again, too easy to exploit.

But making a PvP pack might be interesting - to once and for all see if PvP is worth the effort.

PvP giving PvP benefits is fine by me. Alternative guild renown ranking system, or PvP only feats/abilities/items/whatever.

Yeah a small PvP pack with a wide open explorer area and maybe a couple 2-6 person challenges might be a good way to gauge how popular something like that would be without devoting a ton of resources to it. Obviously with everything going toward the expansion - er - update 14, it would have to be after that.

[Rubiconn]

i personally do not participate in PVP, I just dont find it that interesting. But there are some who enjoy it and if it benefits the game overall then have at it.

My suggestion for any kind of pvp reward system would be like favor. You dont get PVE favor but a special PVP favor that will unlock specific rewards, access to new PVP packs etc to satiate your PVP addiction.

I would like to see separate instances for PVP and I like the suggestion of a teleport type device similar to the air ship stations.

For a tryout the devs could copy an area like vale and try it out as a free for all PVP enviroment. They could create different sections that have min/max levels to keep it fair. If you get enough PVP favor you can go to a higher area to try your luck against the big boys etc.

Cosmetic rewards would be good too like getting a new scar on you toon or armor skins.

[Postumus]

Cosmetic rewards would be good too like getting a new scar on you toon or armor skins.

cool idea. or bone necklace or something.

[Chai]

I wasn't making a reference to going into the lobster and hopping from a balcony i meant the CtF maps and Arena's their pretty fun if you can get the guildies to come and other geared players that don't pws, neg lvl or dispell you.

Most players dont know those exist. In fact, Ive run into daily PVPers who didnt know they existed.

Seems like each player has their list of "cheap tactics" they dont like. They are usually the tactics that can be used to kill their build. I say keep it open. There are no cheap tactics. Theres no way to block everything that can be done to a toon and there are enough powerful abilities to go around where all of them cant be hoarded on the same build.

[esheep]

I think this would be pretty cool... I also think that most of the negative thoughts about PvP in this game deal with how it's been handled in taverns...

To add to this, I'd like to see a giant airship that is an arena, and let's make some of those ginormous challenge areas into PvP arena's -- I want to do some form of PvP in Rushmore's Mansion....

--

As far as renown goes, make it dependent on ranking within the leaderboards maybe? This might make it less exploitable...

I think people need to remember, renown isn't just the name of our guild leveling system, it's actually a word that has a meaning... ie "widespread and of high repute" or "fame" if you're at the top of the leaderboards, any kind of leaderboard (save that for renown...) it makes a bit of sense that you'd be generating some fame.

[wax_on_wax_off]

The sort of PvP that I've always wanted to see added to DDO is one in which killing another player isn't the primary objective. The reason for this is that D&D (and hence DDO) isn't balanced for 1v1 PvP matches.

2 main ideas to work this:

PvP Quest (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=253062): the objective of the scenario is for each team to destroy the opponents' heavily guarded structures at opposing corners of the map. Players characters' are assisted by allied heroes and AI-controlled fighters.
Hardcore/PvP/PD/RP/low magic server (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=339604): Designed as the *only* niche server needed for DDO (with the assumption that there isn't enough interest to support niche servers for each audience). Non-pvp-ers will be able to avoid PvP if they don't want to engage in it but some exposure will be necessary (~once per life for example or 1%).


To other posters here remember that a moderator recently posted that posting ~"I don't like PvP" in a thread that involves a specific suggestion regarding PvP is off topic and can get an infraction.

[Postumus]

The sort of PvP that I've always wanted to see added to DDO is one in which killing another player isn't the primary objective. The reason for this is that D&D (and hence DDO) isn't balanced for 1v1 PvP matches.

2 main ideas to work this:

PvP Quest (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=253062): the objective of the scenario is for each team to destroy the opponents' heavily guarded structures at opposing corners of the map. Players characters' are assisted by allied heroes and AI-controlled fighters.





I like that one. I would play that. That's also why I like the idea of PvP challenges where the goal isn't so much to kill the other player as beat the other player. Perhaps you could kill the other players kobolds so yours could mine faster.

But as someone else pointed out, the rewards might be difficult to figure out since how do you account for multi-boxing? Playing merely for 'braggin rights' doesn't interest me.

[wax_on_wax_off]

I like that one. I would play that. That's also why I like the idea of PvP challenges where the goal isn't so much to kill the other player as beat the other player. Perhaps you could kill the other players kobolds so yours could mine faster.

But as someone else pointed out, the rewards might be difficult to figure out since how do you account for multi-boxing? Playing merely for 'braggin rights' doesn't interest me.

Integrate the PvP quest into the new quest system (that is being released with the expansion) and provide some sort of reward only when using that system, you never know who you will be pitted against so you can hardly rely on them to let you get an easy win. Rewards could be anything from guild renown, place on leaderboards, experience or other items (though at the same time no reward is needed).

It should be noted that PvP is possible in my suggestion it is just that it isn't the primary objective. Your team can never make a single hero kill and still easily win the quest by helping the creeps get to the other base to destroy the other teams base. However, I suggested 3 balances to make a variety of classes valuable in the above thread (fix stealth in PvP, make structures immune to spells or ranged weapons and make friendly creeps vulnerable to friendly fire).

[gerardIII]

What are your thoughts?
No.

I want more PvP as much as I want Rogue to be spelled Rouge. :mad:

[Dagolar]

I would never play PvP in DDO so long as it's just free-for-all or the maps are as shoddy as some of the current ones.
But if a pack came out with unique playstyles (such as exampled in the OP), winnable elements (cosmetic elements, or otherwise, but nothing that notably affects PvE), and solid, easy to navigate yet tactically intricate maps, then I'd be interested enough.

Alternatively: Create a pack that has the ability to go both into PvE and PvP instances. PvP grants a bit more (ingredients, progress, etc), but is also more dangerous or intense or less farmable solely due to the PvP elements.
Sure, it'd be a pack that'd have to be carefully planned, but even if the PvP part fails to pull interest, it'd still end up solid in the long run.

[Chai]

PvP Quest (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=253062): the objective of the scenario is for each team to destroy the opponents' heavily guarded structures at opposing corners of the map. Players characters' are assisted by allied heroes and AI-controlled fighters.

One of the best versions Ive played of this type of model is alterac valley in WOW, in its earlier days. Here was a PVP zone I could play a full on heal specced toon in. Our premade group would roll around together and either be full defense (defending our NPC) or full offense (destroying their NPC). Each side had a raid boss style NPC that was the main objective.

Couple things that made this work.

1. Opposing teams could not talk to eachother. There was no "20 seconds of combat followed by 20 minutes of back and forth trash talking".

2. Just about any type of build or spec had value. Most PVP games degenerate into "burst DPS builds = /auto-victory" but this type of PVP is an exception.

[Flavilandile]

Ok, with the new rules, that's going to be interesting to watch.


My thoughts on a new system, after leaving the game and coming back still thinking that turbine still really has a shiny gem on there hands and developed one of the greatest games to exist the only thing thats truly missing from the game is a good pvp system with the lack of content which i understand is being worked on and i can be patient.

Turbine designed a game based on D&D. D&D is a Roleplaying Game, that is a cooperative team game.
It's not a game where the objective is to kill other players, the objective is to cooperate with them to reach objectives.
PvP is not missing from the game, it's there, in a lot of taverns, but the only one used for PvP is the Lobster Brawling Pit, all the other Tavern PvP Zone are empty.

The vast minority of the DDO players are not interested in PvP. Let's see, I'm a member of the largest guild on Ghallanda, It's an European guild that survived 1 Server Transfer ( from Boldrei to Keeper ) and the European Shutdown. Out of the 100+ players there's less than 10 that actually engage in PvP at all. ( I'm not even considering doing PvP regularly, just jumping in the pit from time to time )
That should give a small idea where the majority of the players stand about PvP in DDO.

Now lets discuss the suggestions :




PvP System

Some general thoughts, players of course would have the options to "cue up" for pvp and then for those that choose not to would never have too.


It's queue, as in make a queue... or pile behind one another for a free spot. But making PvP queue in DDO would be pointless there's not enough people doing PvP at a given time for a queue to form up.



Incentives: Players that choose to pvp would have the options for added bonus to guild renown, Some sort of leaderboards for the group cue and solo cue, provided daily challenges for the pvp system, medals that you could trade for gear, trade-ins for different weapon skins? ingrediants, anyway you understand what im getting at here.


As already stated by others, Renown for PvP would be exploited so much that it would be removed fairly quickly.
PvP should not bring more reward that having the satisfaction of waving the e-peen of the people that do it, I'll grant the Leaderboard that should have been there since PvP was introduced in game, as it's one of the never futhfilled promise of the Early DDO days. ( but as we are going to see Druids soon, maybe the PvP Leaderboard is not far behind )



Solo or Group
Players would have the options to cue up solo or group that way the groups can give guilds a chance to stack up renown and a chance to play together towards other guilds.

Games

Ship defense: Maybe have sort of a "Battleship" field so to speak when the match starts each ship would hover over the teams base with a ladder and the goal would be to invade each others base and successfully grab a guild flag and carry it back to the opposing teams airship "capture the flag" this would provide a good defense as well as a good offense for the opposing teams so it would be balanced.


Cover your bases: Players would have the opportunity to have a team death match with other players across the playing field players would have to get past like maybe npc guards as well to invade another base and the player to have survive the longest would have successfully captured the teams base and scored a point.

DDO wasn't thought as a game with PvP, as such expanding PvP so much would require lots of development time.
The only way to repay for that development time would be by selling it as an expansion... I'm not sure there will be enough people interested in buying such an expansion for Turbine to cover the development costs required by putting PvP as one of the main game component instead of an afterthought. Furthermore, D&D Classes are not balanced for PvP, as the game is cooperative. Having a PvP increased presence would require class rebalancing... ( ok, call that nerf, as there will be huge nerfs )

All this combined ( class rebalancing and more present PvP ) would just lead long standing players to quit the game and in the end hurt Turbine bottom line.



Free for all: A good place to relax for any tired of the grind for xp or loots player in ddo, I understand you pain so what a better place to come and unwind? Bring your friends and lets have a massive death match :D this would also give turbine the ability to work on bigger instances with more players with the new physics engine maybe for say live action events.[/LIST]



DDO is not designed to allow massive battlefields...
Talk to all those that have been there in the early days of DDO... when we had GM events, Just think about it : during one guild event in Europe ( yes a guild only event ) we spawned a new instance of the area we were in everywhere we went in the public areas. There was about 30/40 people from the guild and the usual European background at that time... So I can with certainty say that any public area with more than 50 to 80 people in it will spawn a second instance to split the charge, how can you do massive things with such a design ?
To add more insight, if you force your area ( as it happened [ and was recommanded even by the GM ] in some events, I can provide screenies of a filled Phiarlan theater ) along with many other, you'll end up in a slide show ( framerate at 0.5 or less ), fighting under these conditions is sheer luck at best, instant death at worst [ been there done that [ Spellsword Auctions, Marketplace Tent Blowing, and yet another players and GM driven event in Europe ].


The best change to PvP would be putting it in it's own instance - and out of the public taverns.

Along with the PvP Leaderboard ( now that they have a working challenge leaderboard, it shouldn't be hard to make a PvP one ), that's about the only change that might get my approval : put the PvP in a PvP arena, somewhere in Stormreach, with it's own instance and chatroom, so that it won't clutter the Lobster chat.

Ps : yes my join date shows August 2010... but I've been playing in Europe since Spring 2006 before that.

[Forzah]

The vast minority of the DDO players are not interested in PvP. Let's see, I'm a member of the largest guild on Ghallanda, It's an European guild that survived 1 Server Transfer ( from Boldrei to Keeper ) and the European Shutdown. Out of the 100+ players there's less than 10 that actually engage in PvP at all. ( I'm not even considering doing PvP regularly, just jumping in the pit from time to time )
That should give a small idea where the majority of the players stand about PvP in DDO.


The uninterest in PvP is mainly due to the very limited current PvP system and the imbalance between classes. With easily accessible game modes, which do not require making groups yourself, and with interesting rewards, you will see that this vast minority will quickly become larger. I think this may even become a quarter of the playerbase, and even more depending on the rewards. If there is some way to track stats (kills, deaths, damage done), then you will get a very competitive environment.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

What are your thoughts?

Just some more food for thought, Omm Nom Nom Nom.

My thoughts are as follows. Go back to WoW.

Everything else was covered in this thread.


I think that there should never be any kind of tangible reward in DDO associated with PvP. Including renown. The best change to PvP would be putting it in it's own instance - and out of the public taverns.

Agreed 100% and Hell yes.

[Rawcous]

I would like to see some content added for PVP but I can also appreciate that any bonuses granted from PVP would be unfair to those who dislike PVP. IMHO, there is a simple fix for this. As it stands, ship bonuses would give far to great an edge in PVP for those with higher level ships. So have the PVP area strip you of all ship buffs upon entering the PVP arena.

For rewards, players would get the ability to add PVP buffs to their ship, or instead of a ship, maybe give them access to a public NPC that you can get buffs from but only as you earn them through PVP. This way the rewards are pointless for those that dislike PVP but gives PVPers somthing to work towards. Just my two cents, and for those snobs that think anyone who likes PVP shouldn't be in the game, go back to LARPing.

[Purgatory]

Congo Bowl is a 4v4 very well regulated pvp event that is giving away 20,000 TP and registration been open for a while now, only a few days are currently left to get in. As it stands we have only 5 registered teams out of the 16 spots that are up for grabs at no cost to the participants.

If I can’t fill all 16 spots, which are only 32 players, with an incentive like 20,000 TP up for grabs and it’s free to enter then what kind of message does that send Turbine? You want pvp to be better? Maybe try doing something about it. Come out and support the Congo Bowl… worst thing that could happen is that you will have a good time.

[ThePrincipal]

I think there should be a social alternative to the Guild that focuses soley on PVP.... the Ludis

functions same as a guild - leader, officers, members - but instead of renown, you get infamy points in the pvp pits. Instead of guild ships you get a Ludis training house. You get Ludis infamy points and with them unlock bonuses that work in PVP only. Various spellike wards, speed boosts, weapon boosts, etc effects that would essentially balance PVP. Top level shrines like- Shrine SR45 vs Profane AC +20 vs Light DR/45 etc therefore you can build up your Ludis to grand heights and be the KING of PVP ---- have Ludis wars --- but at the cost of not being in a Guild. Guild and Ludis would be mutually exclusive.

Plus dev can regulate PVP behavor using the infamy points. Ganking noobs? Minus points. Killing over your level, positive points. Winning capture the flag, positive points. etc.

Also, Guild buffs would not work in PVP anymore. It would be one or the other.

[BitkaCK2]

My thoughts mirror Memnir's.


There should never be tangible rewards for PvP in DDO because then people will want class balance in PvP. Class balance in PvP can't happen. Besides, PvP is its own reward isn't it?

PvP zones should have their own instance.

My suggestion (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=369378), PvP should have it's own chat channel.


Other than that, as long as PvE development is not impeded in any way, I don't really care. Have fun theorycrafting.

bitkaCK

[ThePrincipal]

class balance in pvp is simple.

1. all spells and spell like abilities require saves
2. remove auto targeting on ray spells
3. vorpals/slayerarrows/touchofdeath and similar negated deathblock/deathward
4. allow sneaking and stealth affects

done and done

[Syllph]

class balance in pvp is simple.

1. all spells and spell like abilities require saves
2. remove auto targeting on ray spells
3. vorpals/slayerarrows/touchofdeath and similar negated deathblock/deathward
4. allow sneaking and stealth affects

done and done

I think you forgot: All spells can no longer do 3000 damage to toons who have no more than 1000 HP (and most have much less than this). That's the issue with balance. And are you really proposing adding a save on Power Word spells? Wouldn't that defeat the point of the spell?

[ThePrincipal]

It can still be a high save. Also immunities. Such as 500+hp immune to PWS, 600+ immune to PWK.

PVP vendor who you can buy SR45 or +10 Profane AC or Evasion Buff cookie from would also be very nice plat sink and also help balance the game.

[brickwall]

Pvp Is A Joke Fun For A Time Killer Or A Laugh Not Much Else.

[Syllph]

It can still be a high save. Also immunities. Such as 500+hp immune to PWS, 600+ immune to PWK.

PVP vendor who you can buy SR45 or +10 Profane AC or Evasion Buff cookie from would also be very nice plat sink and also help balance the game.

Interesting thought, but then if casters had over 500 HP they'd be immune to stunning blow/fist and would be buying cookies that gave immunity to knockdown/trip and +45 AC cookies.

It just sounds like another power-creep / balance issue.

[McFlay]

Congo Bowl is a 4v4 very well regulated pvp event that is giving away 20,000 TP and registration been open for a while now, only a few days are currently left to get in. As it stands we have only 5 registered teams out of the 16 spots that are up for grabs at no cost to the participants.

If I can’t fill all 16 spots, which are only 32 players, with an incentive like 20,000 TP up for grabs and it’s free to enter then what kind of message does that send Turbine? You want pvp to be better? Maybe try doing something about it. Come out and support the Congo Bowl… worst thing that could happen is that you will have a good time.

Sounds pretty epic but I'm far too lazy to roll new toons on another server when I'm going for completionist on Orien:(

[McFlay]

It can still be a high save. Also immunities. Such as 500+hp immune to PWS, 600+ immune to PWK.

PVP vendor who you can buy SR45 or +10 Profane AC or Evasion Buff cookie from would also be very nice plat sink and also help balance the game.

I'm kinda confused as to why you think selling buffs that screw non-casters over in pvp even more would be a good thing. Last I checked you could already get enough ac to be unhittable 95% of the time vs players anyhow. Evasion cost a 2 level splash, which is a trade off for most builds. Take your capstone, or take evasion. I'd hate to see capstoned evasion fvs and sorcs in pvp.

But, I would agree PWS is lame in pvp. Its scaled to inflated mob hp so when you apply it to players its broken. If it was like 0-100hp for a long stun, 100-200 for a medium stun, 200-300 for a short stun, and 300+ was immune I woudlnt have any issues with it, but when it amounts to pws = win, I think everyone not looking for an easy win button would agree its stupid. I couldn't even count how many times I go to play around in the brawl area, and beat up on an arcane a few times, then they simply resort to pws, pws, pws. Its like they don't want to use it until they realize its the only way to win. At that point, all you can really do is log on your arcane and try to pws them first...fun?

Dots are pretty much on the same level. Its just not fun when someone can drop down in a brawl, slap a dot on you, then run to safety and all you can do is stand there and wait to die. You can't physically dodge them like you can do to a lot of ranged spells, you can't save vs them, and you can fully expect every caster in pvp areas to have maximize and empower on at all times to insure you will die easily to a dot. Wouldn't bug me one bit if dots were uncastable in pvp like BB an FW.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Ok, with the new rules, that's going to be interesting to watch.

Turbine designed a game based on D&D. D&D is a Roleplaying Game, that is a cooperative team game.
It's not a game where the objective is to kill other players, the objective is to cooperate with them to reach objectives.
PvP is not missing from the game, it's there, in a lot of taverns, but the only one used for PvP is the Lobster Brawling Pit, all the other Tavern PvP Zone are empty.


You nailed it, in a nutshell.

There is such a minority that gives a **** about pvp (I'd say less then 1% of the playerbase) that I'd hate to see the devs waste any more time on it.

Id rather all dev time spent on what the vast majority of the community have been doing all along, and thats PvE.

Save pvp for those brainless mmos where epeens are as common as drinking water, those mmos that were built intricately around pvp from the very beginning. D&D, as well as DDO, were not created to pvp, its unbalanced nature prohibits or greatly diminishes the core concept of an even playing field.

[McFlay]

You nailed it, in a nutshell.

There is such a minority that gives a **** about pvp (I'd say less then 1% of the playerbase) that I'd hate to see the devs waste any more time on it.

Id rather all dev time spent on what the vast majority of the community have been doing all along, and thats PvE.

Save pvp for those brainless mmos where epeens are as common as drinking water, those mmos that were built intricately around pvp from the very beginning. D&D, as well as DDO, were not created to pvp, its unbalanced nature prohibits or greatly diminishes the core concept of an even playing field.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=371071

kthx

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=371071

kthx

That really doesnt apply. My comment is a direct response to another poster, and in line with the comment posed by the OP. Cord was talking about people harassing others who PvP. That's not the goal of my post.

Thank you very much.

[Flavilandile]

The uninterest in PvP is mainly due to the very limited current PvP system and the imbalance between classes. With easily accessible game modes, which do not require making groups yourself, and with interesting rewards, you will see that this vast minority will quickly become larger. I think this may even become a quarter of the playerbase, and even more depending on the rewards. If there is some way to track stats (kills, deaths, damage done), then you will get a very competitive environment.

The inbalance between the classes is inherent to D&D and will not be modified... unless Turbine wants to kill the game. ( as such a change in the game would drive people away in mass )

Just go check the forums about class balance suggestion and see how much Flak the person that made such a suggestion received.

As it has already been stated : PvP should not give any reward at all. ( except e-peen waving through the long promised leaderboard eventually )

[McFlay]

That really doesnt apply. My comment is a direct response to another poster, and in line with the comment posed by the OP. Cord was talking about people harassing others who PvP. That's not the goal of my post.

Thank you very much.

Your post had nothing at all to do with the OP, you made 3 points in it.

1. Nobody cares about pvp
2. Its a waste of dev time
3. People who enjoy pvp have found some strange loot named "epeen"

If you bothered to read cord's sticky he says right in it "Please allow players who want to discuss PvP in DDO to have a place to do so. Harassing people for liking PvP, or leading threads off-topic by making posts which amount to, "I don't like PvP and don't think it should be in the game" can be an infractable offense."

All your thread amounted to was you don't like pvp, since you added nothing constructive at all to the thread. Go troll somewhere else.

[loki_3369]

Majority of players? Can I get hard data on that? Of the 40 or so people I know in game. There is one that's a PvPer. The other 39 hate even going into the Lobster. 1/40 does not a majority make.

/Semi-wallo'text "You shall not pass!"



Without taking a full poll of every player on every server, neither of you are totally correct. A "majority" is completely relative to you and the social group you are a part of. The forum population =/= in game population as well, in case someone had planned on using that as a counter-argument.

Shadow, I'd like to see the pvp system changed. Somewhat similar to your/Thirt's idea(s). I don't think there should be any exceptional loot that comes from pvp. Or perhaps as someone's suggested (perhaps even yourself, too tired to look through it) keep the loot that comes from pvp only usable in pvp. I like the idea of giving pvp it's own instance.

As for balance, I don't really see a balance issue within pvp. I know people cry about casters a lot, but I've never really had a problem taking casters down on my main. The cheap people use cheap tactics. There will always be cheap people. That's why I turn into the cheapest person you'll ever find in the Lobster- once someone does it to me of course ;). When you get into the arena with people who aren't complete ******rs, it is quite fun. It's a great distraction from the constant raiding/epics we do.

I don't think it would hinder any of the pve "progress" they would make. I mean, how hard is it to buff one thing and nerf two others? So the "oh noez pvp get in way of pve developemint!1!!!!11" argument really doesn't apply. However, everyone is entitled to their own opinions of course.

Oh, also. For the "DDO is based off of D&D and meant to be a co-op game", etc. The same could be said of Battlefield 3 and most other pvp games (not that I want DDO to become pvp based). Completely different genre, I know. Theory is still the same. Generally you work with your team to defeat the other team. Well, the good players do anyway. I know what you meant though. Pc vs. npc. Just trying to give an example of how a pvp system could also be considered co-op. Most games with decent pvp systems (which aren't 1v1) usually involve cooperation and team tactics. Poor example, I know. Too tired/don't care enough to try to come up with a better example... Sorry.


Good ideas, along with some bad, but unfortunately I doubt Turbine will ever give us any better pvp.

Would be kind of cool if they made an entirely pvp based game with similar combat systems... It would also be nice if they outsourced their customer service to somewhere that speaks logic.

Much longer than I had intended this to be.... Snarfle snarfle.

[Uska]

ZERO dev time for pvp please.

[keveniaftw]

You nailed it, in a nutshell.

There is such a minority that gives a **** about pvp (I'd say less then 1% of the playerbase) that I'd hate to see the devs waste any more time on it.

Id rather all dev time spent on what the vast majority of the community have been doing all along, and thats PvE.

Save pvp for those brainless mmos where epeens are as common as drinking water, those mmos that were built intricately around pvp from the very beginning. D&D, as well as DDO, were not created to pvp, its unbalanced nature prohibits or greatly diminishes the core concept of an even playing field.

I used to pvp alot while waiting for quests (stopped after U9 inbalance to pvp, can't blame devs for that tho), and all I can say is that people who say a very small minority pvp are SO wrong
Yes there are a lot the same players
Yes you see every day new players
Yes the seperate rooms are being used more, far more often than you can imagine so:

/Sarcasm on
I want EVERY non pvp'er, who of course mostly makes non-pvp'er friends (especially haters) get some statistic proof in an experiment with COMPLETELY random players (like 500) to proof that pvp is not being used. Ppl in all level ranges, and split in 3 categories: 'Yes I pvp occasionally', 'No I don't' and 'I didn't know there is pvp'
Any cheating on this (trying to influence) will be shown as a doubt that the hater is wrong
/Sarcasm off

Because generally, haters statements make as much sense as

/Sarcasm on
Only 4% of the player database runs the flag quests of necro I, remove these competely
Don't update paladins, these are only used in 2% of the existing builds
Please remove coal chamber, 99% of the players hate it (Ok, this might be right ;-) )
/Sarcasm off
And to proof these haters are generally speaking hyocrites
Oh, and also only 1% or less of the players ever run epic LoB atm, but that has another reason. You want it removed too haters? No? Why not? Oooh, you're one of this 1% yourself. Well yeah: If it is only played by 1%, then 2 possibilies
right?
1) You are not of this 1%, it must be removed OR no dev time wasted
2) You are one of the 1%, yeah, it must be improved, and don't dare to remove it.

Feel free to neg rep me away, I look at it as a sign where you DO know I'm right

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

all I can say is that people who say a very small minority pvp are SO wrong

Im going to assume you meant that people are "SO" wrong who say pvp are a small minority of the population.

Ok, go to a bar... heck go to all the bars... add up those you see pvping. Then add up all the people LFG and already in groups. What do you get?

Dude, sorry for the newsbreak, but its not even close.

Stroll over the the PvP thread. 'Bout the only action there is a that recommends to limit chat functions of pvpers to a private channel. I think thats brilliant.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

ZERO dev time for pvp please.

Right on the shnozolee!

[Mastikator]

Im going to assume you meant that people are "SO" wrong who say pvp are a small minority of the population.

Ok, go to a bar... heck go to all the bars... add up those you see pvping. Then add up all the people LFG and already in groups. What do you get?

Dude, sorry for the newsbreak, but its not even close.

Stroll over the the PvP thread. 'Bout the only action there is a that recommends to limit chat functions of pvpers to a private channel. I think thats brilliant.

It's not totally uncommon for there to be multiple instances of The Wayward Lobster. Less now than it used to be.
Also worth noting that just because it may be occationally empty doesn't mean that there aren't PVPers online, PVPers need to do quests too. I spend less time in the lobster than doing quests, doesn't mean I'm not a lobsterdweller.

[Chai]

I knew this was going to happen sooner or later. OP posts how they want something new for PVP. People disagree. Attempts to intimidate people who disagree with quoting thread posted by a mod about keeping posts on topic.

Theres no need to add to the pits. People need to make use of all the PVP features that are present before Turbine should even remotely consider allocating any resources toward any type of PVP feature expansion. Its hilarious when I get called a PVP hater, when I use more of the PVP features than the supporters who try to label me such do, evidenced by their referring to the pits and only the pits when they post about it, most of the time.

I dont believe in unbalancing PVP more than it already is. All having a system that rewards victors by teams (in this case, ludis in one suggestion, renown in another) would do is further strengthen their advantage in ganking people the next time they want to jump in and kill some time between quests. Im also not for arbitrary buffs that can only be explained with "because we coded it this way." Light DR 45? Because we said so. No other reason. +20 profane AC? Profane is a hilarious adjective to use as a bonus in the first place. Man I got some @#$%ing AC bra. Now what? :p

[wax_on_wax_off]

I knew this was going to happen sooner or later. OP posts how they want something new for PVP. People disagree. Attempts to intimidate people who disagree with quoting thread posted by a mod about keeping posts on topic.

Theres no need to add to the pits. People need to make use of all the PVP features that are present before Turbine should even remotely consider allocating any resources toward any type of PVP feature expansion. Its hilarious when I get called a PVP hater, when I use more of the PVP features than the supporters who try to label me such do, evidenced by their referring to the pits and only the pits when they post about it, most of the time.

I dont believe in unbalancing PVP more than it already is. All having a system that rewards victors by teams (in this case, ludis in one suggestion, renown in another) would do is further strengthen their advantage in ganking people the next time they want to jump in and kill some time between quests. Im also not for arbitrary buffs that can only be explained with "because we coded it this way." Light DR 45? Because we said so. No other reason. +20 profane AC? Profane is a hilarious adjective to use as a bonus in the first place. Man I got some @#$%ing AC bra. Now what? :p

Some people are very well known for trouncing into PvP threads to proclaim loud and clear how much they dislike PvP without any actual evidence that they've read the OP at all. I'm not interested enough to read through the 4 pages to find out if that was the case this time but I wouldn't be surprised.

I was surprised to see the horror and outrage about the idea of attaching some guild renown to PvP. We've got guilds being level to 100 solo or by the devs for getting a level 80 guild ship, is guild renown really such a precious commodity that it can't be used in an appropriate fashion like as a reward for PvP matches? It's "Guild Renown" for Pete's sake, the renown of your guild is certainly going to be effected by your contests against other guilds (thematically).

PvP is difficult to make work in a game like DDO but not impossible. Throw a DotA platform at DDO mechanics and it can work totally fine without any balancing. Add in some clauses like allowing stealth to work and limiting the effectiveness of casters/ranged characters against structures in such a quest and you're pretty much sorted. This is the type of PvP map I'd like to see.

The OPs main suggestion is a queue and with the addition of a queuing system in U14 it seems a logical suggestion to add a PvP queue in a consequent update. Perhaps U14 is secretly putting into place some mechanics for a future PvP patch? Certainly the new combat system balances PvP somewhat (everyone can hit most of the time against most AC) and so does the spell system change (most people won't have max buffs so will do less burst damage which will be more manageable).

A successful PvP system in DDO will bring in revenue which will equate to a healthier game for everyone. Turbine is smart enough to keep PvP mechanics discrete so people who aren't interested don't have to engage. Seems simple enough to me.

[Chai]

A successful PvP system in DDO will bring in revenue which will equate to a healthier game for everyone. Turbine is smart enough to keep PvP mechanics discrete so people who aren't interested don't have to engage. Seems simple enough to me.

Part of my dog in this fight is that most people do not even use 100% of what they have. Revenue per person per dev hour is far more efficient catering to those who use 100% of the features of the game they are playing, and to keep them on board, they build more content for those people. Right now, those people are the ones with epic gear in all slots on most toons, not the PVP crowd who neglects 75% of the PVP features in DDO, then asks for more on a regular basis.

If PVP mechanics were discrete, they wouldnt be in taverns. The parts that are used most would have its own zone load in and general chat for that zone, rather than sharing with the rest of the zone that tavern is in.

Secondly, renown or something similar for PVP rewards is too exploitable. We know this is something they watch due to the debacle early on in the renown system where people were (some incorrectly) slapped on the wrist for using renown farming exploits. I had one person address this concern by suggesting diminishing returns, but that doesnt work when you are talking about multiple friends on multiple toons on multiple accounts. We have already had someone clearly demonstrate to us that this is currently the best way to farm renown.


Some people are very well known for trouncing into PvP threads to proclaim loud and clear how much they dislike PvP without any actual evidence that they've read the OP at all. I'm not interested enough to read through the 4 pages to find out if that was the case this time but I wouldn't be surprised.

And some people are well known for bantering that disagreement with their suggestion = trolling, which is vastly incorrect. This thread over time has become a perfect example of a few people attempting to defacto moderate a thread through rules lawyering, and the minute the mods posted that people need to stay on topic, I and many others knew that they would attempt to invoke that post the minute they saw disagreement.

[Delssar]

So.... everyone who wants to buff up their guilds makes ice sorcs and spams spells at their alt account toons?

[wax_on_wax_off]

So.... everyone who wants to buff up their guilds makes ice sorcs and spams spells at their alt account toons?

What if the renown rewards for PvP were less than what you would get from the same amount of time questing? Let alone the opportunities involved recently in the build your guild event ...

Even if you could get similar renown in PvP to questing it would still be missing loot/xp which is a much bigger piece of the pie (not many people quest exclusively for renown).

[SiliconScout]

Very true but in all honestly I am in a small guild.

I PvP very rarely mainly because it bores me even though I more often win than lose, it's just not my thing.

That said I could easily see me dual boxing with my mule toon and killing it over and over for the renown. Even if it's just 1 renown per win I can make that win happen in about 2 seconds. Give it time to get in and out of a session and I am making about 2-3 renown per minute doing a whole lot of nothing really. I could see potential to abuse that.

Now if it's say 25 renown per win (especially if guild bonus' count) then I am more than willing to take 2 hours a week and sink it into renown farming.

My guild is a 7 account semi-casual guild (we probably average 4 hours per day per account) and just cleared level 72, I expect we could hit 80 in about a week if (as a guild) we completely dedicated that week to renown farming via PvP.

Honestly I think it's a bad idea because of the abuse that could be done.

Having said that if you want to allow "guild challenges" in PvP and have the winning guild take Renown from the Losing guild ... then cool! I can't see anyone in my guild wanting to really participate but there are PvP guilds out there so let them go at it. Since it's a transfer not net new Renown then no harm no foul.

[GolemTheDarkBeing]

I love pvp don't get me wrong but enjoy it as it no balance required. do you suck? re-roll it's that simple fact: type /who and count how many people are online now go to the pit and count how many people during peak hours are in the pit. if the number of people in the pit is less than everyone online the minority of the population is pvp. just accept it and move on. The only change that needs made is a bigger ledge so people can't jump back up after they fail to adren slay you or shiradi doens't proc and you save kukan do lololol

[Uska]

NO to any dev time spent on pvp ever ever

[MorteCerta]

My thoughts on a new system, after leaving the game and coming back still thinking that turbine still really has a shiny gem on there hands and developed one of the greatest games to exist the only thing thats truly missing from the game is a good pvp system with the lack of content which i understand is being worked on and i can be patient.


PvP System


Some general thoughts, players of course would have the options to "cue up" for pvp and then for those that choose not to would never have too.

Incentives: Players that choose to pvp would have the options for added bonus to guild renown, Some sort of leaderboards for the group cue and solo cue, provided daily challenges for the pvp system, medals that you could trade for gear, trade-ins for different weapon skins? ingrediants, anyway you understand what im getting at here.

Solo or Group
Players would have the options to cue up solo or group that way the groups can give guilds a chance to stack up renown and a chance to play together towards other guilds.

Games

Ship defense: Maybe have sort of a "Battleship" field so to speak when the match starts each ship would hover over the teams base with a ladder and the goal would be to invade each others base and successfully grab a guild flag and carry it back to the opposing teams airship "capture the flag" this would provide a good defense as well as a good offense for the opposing teams so it would be balanced.


Cover your bases: Players would have the opportunity to have a team death match with other players across the playing field players would have to get past like maybe npc guards as well to invade another base and the player to have survive the longest would have successfully captured the teams base and scored a point.

Free for all: A good place to relax for any tired of the grind for xp or loots player in ddo, I understand you pain so what a better place to come and unwind? Bring your friends and lets have a massive death match :D this would also give turbine the ability to work on bigger instances with more players with the new physics engine maybe for say live action events.



What are your thoughts?

Just some more food for thought, Omm Nom Nom Nom.

Yes, dev should improve the pvp system. No, it doesnt mean that DDO should be a pvp focus. I dont know how many people in DDO actually do PVP, but you can be sure that this number would be bigger if we have an actual PVP system. Thumbs up for your post!

[Sehenry03]

Ok so I don't EVER PvP and I never will. Ever. The game is NOT balanced for it. You get complaints that this class needs to be redone to be better at PvP or this class needs a nerf. The game is designed around coop play and I hope the Dev's keep the focus on the coop game.

Now having said that...

I think a PvP pack you pay to get or you get free if you are ViP COULD be a nice addition. The problem is...and you can argue all you want...currently not many people PvP. Few do. Turbine has to decide if they want to put the effort into a cause with few players interested. Well done ideas could garner more interest. Maybe things like:

The Pit redone into a PvP arena.
The Vale redone into a CtF or Destroy a Fortress area.
Shavaroth redone into a PvP battleground.
Etc.

The real problem is that the classes will NEVER be balanced for it. They CAN'T be balanced for it unless you want the dev's to spend a significant time doing it and most people want Dev's to focus on the game and not that. Personally the only easy system I see is to simply limit fights to similar classes. I don't care how tough a melee thinks he is. I don't care how outfitted he is or how well built. I see ANY melee on my sorc in an open arena I guarantee you he will be dead before he can do a single point of damage to me. On the flip side Any Ranger/Monkcher/Arty is gonna destroy my sorc before I could even begin to get close enough to cast a spell of ANY kind. Balance. That's the problem. Now in an arena maybe like The Pit then melee's would be far more successful but I would still put the casters at a large advantage. Archers of any kind with decent builds would rule most of these fights. Rangers would be unstoppable I think. Monkchers also.

And of course this.. personally I find the PvPers in general chat to be obnoxious and rude and half the time I wish a GM would boot them from the game. If they would get over their attitude issues I think a lot of people would have fewer issues with them.

Mainly though I do think it should be an addon that is purchased with items that are only useable in PvP also something you can purchase from the DDO store.

This could be another source of revenue if it was done well enough to get people to purchase it. Its just that it would be a large undertaking with a large chance to have very little return because DDO is not...nor has it ever been...a good PvP game.

[BOgre]

IMO:

PVP needs to occur in its own instance, away from the rest of the PVE community. IFF that is done, then I assume the community would be fine with letting the PVP crowd have whatever else it wants.

An simple way to implement PVP balance would be to create a line of Enhancement Trees whose abilities are only active in PVP instances. You'd spend your AP in the PVP tree of your choice, then on entering a PVP instance/arena your PVE trees are disabled and your PVP tree(s) become active. **good luck Turbine getting this right without breaking a ton of other stuff**

Another way would be a PVP only server. But then, why not just start from scratch and build a PVP DDO seperate game altogether.

On a side note, I've recently intro'd my daughter to the game and rolled up a lowbie alt to run with her. Sunday I had the notion of challenging her to a PVP match (not in the Lobster, but the deathmatch kind you can start from the focus orb), just to test out her build and teach her some playstyle tricks. Short story long, it failed to launch. Got error msgs I didn't bother to jot down. If a dev pops in here, I'll be happy to reproduce. (that sounds dirty...)

[Flavilandile]

*Casts Turn Undead*


Holy Necro !!!

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

NO to any dev time spent on pvp ever ever


NO to any dev time spent on pvp ever ever


NO to any dev time spent on pvp ever ever

and


NO to any dev time spent on pvp ever ever

[cdbd3rd]

...and...


**Points LW's attention to the forum header.**

We're in the protected lands here. Despite the nasty smell of the necro, we still can't nay-say PvP here.

[Uska]

and


Why?

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

**Points LW's attention to the forum header.**

We're in the protected lands here. Despite the nasty smell of the necro, we still can't nay-say PvP here.


Why?

Reasons why PvP would be bad for DDO (just my personal opi. I think there's always room for a discussion of both sides as long as we are respecting each other's opinion cdbd3rd:))

1. Yet another system add-on patched into the game would cause open-season exploitation, and any reward system would be the catalyst.

2. DDO is clearly built mainly as a PvE game, and the amount of work to build "meaningul PvP" would be percieved by the PvP playerbase as simply an add on and nowhere near as good as a game built from the ground-up for and dedicated to PvP, such as Elder Scrolls Online, DOTA 2, Darkfall, or Wildstar. This would cause a massive backend workload for the forum moderators on these official forums and still color more negativity from those unsatisfied with the results of the Dev's PvP work onto the limited forum population we have now currently (compared to pre-WB forum downgrade), which is negative enough as it is.

3. The ATTITUDE. I do not want to see my screen filled up with open world kiddie-mobs RARWW-ing and "Wanna PvP??!!" and epeening all over my 26" screen!!!

4. BALANCE. You think balance is bad now!? Hahahahaha..

5. I believe this would cause the largest majority of dropped ViP accounts, percentage-wise even worse than MoTU expansion did (asking for that kind of money that many years after launch was just not a bright idea).

... There's a bunch more but the bottom line is, so few in the game want PvP its just not worth it. And for the thought of new blood hanging around after a few days/weeks is a pipe dream.

[bennyson]

Reasons why PvP would be bad for DDO (just my personal opi. I think there's always room for a discussion of both sides as long as we are respecting each other's opinion cdbd3rd:))

1. Yet another system add-on patched into the game would cause open-season exploitation, and any reward system would be the catalyst.

2. DDO is clearly built mainly as a PvE game, and the amount of work to build "meaningul PvP" would be percieved by the PvP playerbase as simply an add on and nowhere near as good as a game built from the ground-up for and dedicated to PvP, such as Elder Scrolls Online, DOTA 2, Darkfall, or Wildstar. This would cause a massive backend workload for the forum moderators on these official forums and still color more negativity from those unsatisfied with the results of the Dev's PvP work onto the limited forum population we have now currently (compared to pre-WB forum downgrade), which is negative enough as it is.

3. The ATTITUDE. I do not want to see my screen filled up with open world kiddie-mobs RARWW-ing and "Wanna PvP??!!" and epeening all over my 26" screen!!!

4. BALANCE. You think balance is bad now!? Hahahahaha..

5. I believe this would cause the largest majority of dropped ViP accounts, percentage-wise even worse than MoTU expansion did (asking for that kind of money that many years after launch was just not a bright idea).

... There's a bunch more but the bottom line is, so few in the game want PvP its just not worth it. And for the thought of new blood hanging around after a few days/weeks is a pipe dream.

If DDO had a better PvP system that has its own instance, chat channel and its own rewards in a P2P way that makes money for Turbine, the population will increase, content will increase. Heck Turbine would hire MOAR Devs to work on DDO.

Heck, there are other games out there with PVP such as GW2, WoW, LOTRO, Rift and a lot more sister.


Also, your(and several by others) posts have been nothing but the overall "I don't like PvP for X reason because of X and it is terrible for the game!"

Also, Forum population =/= In-Game population, that is the dumbest assumption any person can make in their life time. I've met people who play this game and NEVER posted in the forums because they think its a community full of trolls. (The troll part was not my own words, someone I grouped said that to me when I asked them if they been to the forums at all.)

Second, how many people, exactly, are in the minority vs majority of the game? Hmmm? You don't know, your taking a blind guess that either has a 40% 60% or 99.9% chance of being wrong on any other random percent. Plus, your opinion isn't backed up by solid facts. Second, the point of this thread is to discuss a NEW PvP SYSTEM and your posts have basically been what Cord specifically said that is not allowed.

I wanted to post my own take on this idea because I am, by all rights, a PvPer and I believe the current PVP system sucks and needs improvement, because that's what I hate, I hate the CURRENT pvp system, but any NEW pvp system that is better than the one we have now, I'll gladly throw money at Turbine.

Yes, DDO is based on D&D, but hear this, just because the game is based on other game does not mean it has to be exactly like the original. Why? Copyright issues.

If I mean any offense, I apologize. However, this is a serious thread about improving a part of DDO, if the devs never wanted PvP, they should have never included it in Beta in the first place.

[darkly_dreaming]

But making a PvP pack might be interesting - to once and for all see if PvP is worth the effort.

Normally I would be totally against any sort of resources going towards PvP other than creating a separate chat channel for the Wayward Lobster; however, go ahead and create a P2P PvP pack and let those who drool all over the idea put their money where their mouth is. If it flies off the shelf (so to speak) and actually creates enough revenue to nullify the original expense and have profit left over, then look at expanding it with further P2P packs.

Bonus, those who (like me) want nothing to do with it can just not buy the packs and we no longer have to listen to idiots taunting each other in general chat. Win win.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

If DDO had a better PvP system that has its own instance, chat channel and its own rewards in a P2P way that makes money for Turbine, the population will increase, content will increase. Heck Turbine would hire MOAR Devs to work on DDO.

That's called a different world. That's never going to happen. Turbine barely has (many would say does not have) enough time to create content in the game as it is. Adding a new world (if its even possible to with current tech -- dare I say LAG) would require more staff at the very minimum (there've been three layoffs in barely over a year). There is no money to hire more staff, especially to work on something as unpopular as PvP.

Content would DECREASE as resources would be pulled from the current devs creating PvE content.

PvP is staying and should be staying exactly as it is. Tavern combat. Period. That's what it was meant to be... and that's exactly what it is. Its not designed to compete with other PvP oriented games. DDO PvP will always suck in the PvP world. The more they built it... the less balanced, the more bugged, the more exploited DDO would become. I respect the fact some REALLY REALLY want open world PvP in DDO, it's just not realistic, and it's just not going to happen.

[bennyson]

That's called a different world. That's never going to happen. Turbine barely has (many would say does not have) enough time to create content in the game as it is. Adding a new world (if its even possible to with current tech -- dare I say LAG) would require more staff at the very minimum (there've been three layoffs in barely over a year). There is no money to hire more staff, especially to work on something as unpopular as PvP.

Content would DECREASE as resources would be pulled from the current devs creating PvE content.

PvP is staying and should be staying exactly as it is. Tavern combat. Period. That's what it was meant to be... and that's exactly what it is. Its not designed to compete with other PvP oriented games. DDO PvP will always suck in the PvP world. The more they built it... the less balanced, the more bugged, the more exploited DDO would become. I respect the fact some REALLY REALLY want open world PvP in DDO, it's just not realistic, and it's just not going to happen.

Are you a Dev? No, because some day they MIGHT improve PvP. Also, Cordovan said specifically in THIS quote: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/371071-Discussing-PvP-in-the-PvP-Forums

"We offer a PvP section of the forum to allow players to discuss the various aspects of PvP they enjoy (or don't enjoy.) Players who utilize the available PvP systems in DDO should be allowed to discuss PvP in this section of the forums. To encourage this discussion, we offer this bit of advice:

If the topic is about whether PvP in general terms is good, then a player would be keeping in topic by saying they don't like PvP. However, if a player is saying "I have X comment to say about a specific part of the PvP system" that player should not have their thread disrupted by off-topic posts which amount to essentially, "I don't like PvP." A player should be allowed to make suggestions they feel would improve DDO's PvP system without having to deal with off-topic posts as well.

If your only contribution to PvP threads is that you do not like PvP in DDO, you should not be posting in threads meant to discuss certain aspects of PvP, or threads that suggest improvements to the PvP system. If your goal is to harass those who do utilize this game option, you should not be posting in these threads whatsoever.

Please allow players who want to discuss PvP in DDO to have a place to do so. Harassing people for liking PvP, or leading threads off-topic by making posts which amount to, "I don't like PvP and don't think it should be in the game" can be an infractable offense.

Remember to follow the Community Guidelines. Thanks!"

Bold the important parts that you seem to ignore.

Before you say anything, the texts that I have bold in the quote clearly states that the Devs are open to ideas that improve PvP whether you like it or not, so stop posting meaningless, worthless opinions about how much you hate PvP on an insightful discussion.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Are you a Dev? No, because some day they MIGHT improve PvP. Also, Cordovan said specifically in THIS quote: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/371071-Discussing-PvP-in-the-PvP-Forums

"We offer a PvP section of the forum to allow players to discuss the various aspects of PvP they enjoy (or don't enjoy.)

Noone is harassing you. Im glad you like pvp. And I'm all for your right talk about improvements to pvp. However -- we equally have the right to discuss what we DONT like about pvp, including the OPs idea.

PvP in a tavern is fine. As long as it stays IN the tavern or instanced the way it is now. I dont want to see ANY further dev time wasted on "improving" pvp. I do not feel Turbine has the resources to do it, and I dont feel this is the right game or engine to explore more choices. Its simply my opinion. I watched Neverwinter build in PvP, after the fact. I was there in alpha. I had to deal with all the attitudes as a volunteer forum moderator. My feeling, is Turbine doesnt need the aggravation. It would be exploited into oblivion, destroy the PvE experience for many, and I feel Turbine would definitely lose money on the effort.

Anyways, this isnt a swipe on you, it's what I believe would be the end result. Other opinions are out there that are just as valuable as mine, including yours. Good luck !

[Neomarica]

That's called a different world. That's never going to happen. Turbine barely has (many would say does not have) enough time to create content in the game as it is. Adding a new world (if its even possible to with current tech -- dare I say LAG) would require more staff at the very minimum (there've been three layoffs in barely over a year). There is no money to hire more staff, especially to work on something as unpopular as PvP.

Content would DECREASE as resources would be pulled from the current devs creating PvE content.

PvP is staying and should be staying exactly as it is. Tavern combat. Period. That's what it was meant to be... and that's exactly what it is. Its not designed to compete with other PvP oriented games. DDO PvP will always suck in the PvP world. The more they built it... the less balanced, the more bugged, the more exploited DDO would become. I respect the fact some REALLY REALLY want open world PvP in DDO, it's just not realistic, and it's just not going to happen.

We get it, you hate PvP in DDO. This is not useful for the discussion at hand.

[bennyson]

We get it, you hate PvP in DDO. This is not useful for the discussion at hand.

Exactly!

[Cordovan]

/necro.