An LFM experiment

[Ilindith]

As I always come up with weird ideas when I have nothing better to do, yesterday I decided to do something special with my LFMs. An experiment based on the "read the LFM" problems many leaders are experiencing.

Had a few quests I wanted to run so I decided to post my LFMs like this:
To join -> /tell Distributed I will heal myself without a hireling, in progress
LFM also had the correct quest selected, so it shows up on the panel, and the difficulty too (elite)

Here are the results, out of 20 persons that applied (only ran a few quests that evening):

2 : Sent me the tell properly, they know what difficulty it was and they quickly get to the correct quest.

12 : Just apply to the LFM, no tell.
(sub category) : Out of those 12, 8 reply '***?' or something similar when declined.

4 : Send me a tell asking what difficulty. Tell them it's on the LFM
(sub category) : Out of those 4, 2 apply after I tell them to look on the LFM, but no correct tell from them.

Last 2 : 'lol good idea, any luck with it?' Okay they didn't apply but I'm counting them anyway.

le /sigh
Will do this again tonight, stay tuned for more results!

[Chai]

Ive put "password is cheese" on LFMs before. When I invited people I immediately asked what the password was. Its hilarious how few people get it right. I didnt really use it for a basis to decline, just messing around seeing how many people read the LFM before just hitting it up.

[porq]

Interesting idea.

A little cheesy on making people send that exact tell to you, but at least the message resonates; you expect them to take care of themselves.

I will try this on my TR later.

[Ilindith]

A little cheesy on making people send that exact tell to you, but at least the message resonates; you expect them to take care of themselves.

Exactly, tried to fit everything in a small LFM message. I usually put "heal yourself" or something like that, but then I always get people summoning hirelings as soon as they enter the quest...

So what I came up with tells me this if someone joins:
1. The person has read the LFM since they sent me the correct tell.
2. The person knows they'll have to heal themselves (if there isn't a healer willing to do it in party already) by sending the message required.
3. The person knows I do not want them to use a hireling for point 2.

[mobrien316]

I sometimes put "stepping in 30 seconds after we fill" when posting a Shroud or Reaver's LFM. I'm trying to cut down on the number of people who hit the LFM last and then decide it is a good time to reset their enhancements, sell, repair, craft, make a sandwich, etc...

In theory, someone reading that LFM will get themselves ready to go and then will hit the LFM. At least 75% of the time that doesn't happen.

I've done lots of Shrouds and Reavers with 10 or eleven people because don't bother to read the LFM, though they are perfectly willing to send me angry tells cussing me out for starting without them.

[Niv-mizzet]

To join -> /tell Distributed I will heal myself without a hireling, in progress


I can't believe no one sent you a tell saying "I will heal myself without a hireling, in progress"

I guess I just have a weird sense of humor :D

[Varashad]

Ive put "password is cheese" on LFMs before. When I invited people I immediately asked what the password was. Its hilarious how few people get it right. I didnt really use it for a basis to decline, just messing around seeing how many people read the LFM before just hitting it up.

...You're a frigging genius. I'm totally doing this.

[Munkenmo]

If I were online and saw your lfm, I'd read the text, and just click apply.

Do you expect people you've run with previously and know will drink 500pots a quest if that's what it takes to /tell you?

I'm curious, I often put up standard xp zerging tags in my lfm's, but if I ever were to swap them for a statement like yours I'd expect guildies / channel members / known good players, to just hit apply.

[Ilindith]

If I were online and saw your lfm, I'd read the text, and just click apply.

Do you expect people you've run with previously and know will drink 500pots a quest if that's what it takes to /tell you?

I'm curious, I often put up standard xp zerging tags in my lfm's, but if I ever were to swap them for a statement like yours I'd expect guildies / channel members / known good players, to just hit apply.

I'd take names I know right away of course, no need for a tell. But I don't know everyone on the server so the others get to do this :p
Didn't get anyone I know to apply yet though. If you ever want to join, just hit apply, I'll take you!

[Phidius]

Interesting idea.

A little cheesy on making people send that exact tell to you, but at least the message resonates; you expect them to take care of themselves.

I will try this on my TR later.

Personally, I wouldn't care less if they couldn't heal themselves without a hireling... if they are able to follow instructions and send the tell as requested, I'd be glad to babysit them.

Communication > Self-sufficiency any day.

[Cauthey]

(Tell): Metalbone tells you, 'I will heal myself without a hireling, in progress'
(Tell): Metalbone tells you, 'May I apply now? :)'

[Phidius]

Good story, Distrubuted. Reminds me of when I used to run DQ runs with 2 accounts - one standing in the refuge with those who were already flagged, and the second waiting in the preraid for those who needed it.

Edit: Oh, and the 2nd account said "send tell to first group for invite" :D

Had someone send me a tell saying "<insert name of first account> said I could join". After I finished laughing, I sent him an invite, and explained his error.

[Ilindith]

Personally, I wouldn't care less if they couldn't heal themselves without a hireling... if they are able to follow instructions and send the tell as requested, I'd be glad to babysit them.

Communication > Self-sufficiency any day.

True that, communication is best.
If I could heal this life I wouldn't care as much about self-sufficiency, but I'm a ranger :p

[Cauthey]

I can't believe no one sent you a tell saying "I will heal myself without a hireling, in progress"

I guess I just have a weird sense of humor :D

I rushed to compose my previous post in hopes that I would get it made before I saw your post. Heheheh! +1 for great minds thinking alike. :D

[MsEricka]

If I were online and saw your lfm, I'd read the text, and just click apply.

Does antidisestablishmentarianism mean much to you? :)


If you ever want to join, just hit apply, I'll take you!

Ya, and then you'd grease me off the edge of something into a lava pit while I was AFK. After the fifth or sixth time I've learned my lesson.

[Cyr]

Ya, and then you'd grease me off the edge of something into a lava pit while I was AFK. After the fifth or sixth time I've learned my lesson.

Don't go AFK next to lava pits?

[Ilindith]

Does antidisestablishmentarianism mean much to you? :)



Ya, and then you'd grease me off the edge of something into a lava pit while I was AFK. After the fifth or sixth time I've learned my lesson.

I prefer the term 'lubricate', thank you.

[Munkenmo]

I'd take names I know right away of course, no need for a tell. But I don't know everyone on the server so the others get to do this :p
Didn't get anyone I know to apply yet though. If you ever want to join, just hit apply, I'll take you!

Cool, I'm kinda over my barb life atm so have been taking a break / playing capped toons. I'll keep an eye out for you soon, for some wiz king farming.


Does antidisestablishmentarianism mean much to you? :)


Seems to me it means your space bar is dodgy.

[Sarisa]

Sad that it has come to that. May end up having to do that same thing since many people can't listen to simple instructions to get free loot when I post up eClaws or eVoN4's, like:
Bring your own invis.
Wait at the entrance until completion.
Be able to get past the eles.

[Diyon]

Awesome! This is one of my biggest pet peeves in game, people who don't read LFMs. Sometimes I'll post a password in the LFM.

For the record, those few who didn't know the quest difficulty I'd have not been too hard on, as that part of the LFM setup is often neglected, and inaccurate due to the fact that it defaults to normal. So looking there and seeing normal, often means absolutely nothing as to the intentions of the poster, so many people don't bother looking at it (Hint, hint devs: Change it so there is no default difficult on LFM postings, and add Epic already!).

The only excuse to not having read the LFM is people who just logged in and their display is for the LFMs is still buggy, possibly not displaying comments yet. But generally these people are aware of that possibility and are quick to apologize and explain.

But it drives me crazy when people join, then ask about stuff that was clearly in the LFM, or worse ask "What quest?"

[Ilindith]

Time for round 2.

[sirgog]

But it drives me crazy when people join, then ask about stuff that was clearly in the LFM, or worse ask "What quest?"

I do sometimes love stepping into the quest immediately then asking 'WOT HOUSE? SHR PLZ'. But only in a certain silly mood.

[sweez]

The only excuse to not having read the LFM is people who just logged in and their display is for the LFMs is still buggy, possibly not displaying comments yet. But generally these people are aware of that possibility and are quick to apologize and explain.


Actually I'm pretty sure that the comments section of LFM loads in before any others, that's why it's always smart to put name of the quest in comments even if it's selected.

[Diyon]

Actually I'm pretty sure that the comments section of LFM loads in before any others, that's why it's always smart to put name of the quest in comments even if it's selected.

I find that its pretty fickle really. Normally the first thing I see loaded is the quest selected and some of the names of group leaders (not all). The rest of the names (group leaders and party members), and the comments line tend to trickle in later. End point, I haven't noticed any particular pattern but I'm fairly certain I've seen the comments line not display but the quest selected is. Either way, I don't trust it when its being buggy.

[Zyerz]

I gotta tell you, I'm not surprised.... People dont read LFM's at all. They just blindly join a group because it's in their level range. Of course, then they leave because they didnt know it was P2P, or take hours to get to a quest in progress that they've never run before.
Or the classic: "caster needed and the Sorc and Wizzy icons only" and a friggin Arcane Archer wants to join, and when I decline saying we need a caster, the response is: "I am a caster, I have spells"

[BladeTricks]

I saw your LFM yesterday and would have joined if I didn't have to go to sleep at the time. I'll look for it whenever I play and hope to join if you have not out-leveled me by then.

[Ilindith]

Tonight scores:

2 Got it right
1 Got it mostly right, took a bit of help, invited anyway
1 Asked what part quest was (was in CO6), replied it was the first part of CO6, didn't hear anything else after that
6 Just applied and never sent a tell
1 Applied, no tell, I declined, then I get a tell "welcome to my squelch"

[zorander6]

"I'll heal people's summons over healing anyone or anything else including myself." Is what I'd have sent but then I'm sarcastic.

or

"Mass heals centered on someone's pet."

[Kages]

(Tell): Kages tells you, 'ssergorp ni ,gnilerih a tuohtiw flesym laeh lliw I'
(Tell): Kages tells you, 'There, thats better.'

[Ilindith]

(Tell): Kages tells you, 'ssergorp ni ,gnilerih a tuohtiw flesym laeh lliw I'
(Tell): Kages tells you, 'There, thats better.'

iseewhatyoudidthere.jpg

[Kages]

iseewhatyoudidthere.jpg
iknowright.tiff

[Cauthey]

1 Applied, no tell, I declined, then I get a tell "welcome to my squelch"

Squelch because of a decline? WOW. Effing wow.

Sarlona seems like a pretty harsh environment for PUGing. :(

[Dracey]

... ...

Here are the results, out of 20 persons that applied (only ran a few quests that evening):

2 : Sent me the tell properly, they know what difficulty it was and they quickly get to the correct quest.

... ...


Oh wut, I was a lab rat in your experiment? Aren't you supposed to reward lab rats with cheese when they get it right? Where's my cheese?!



... ...

The only excuse to not having read the LFM is people who just logged in and their display is for the LFMs is still buggy, possibly not displaying comments yet. But generally these people are aware of that possibility and are quick to apologize and explain.

... ...


This is frequently me when I log onto my lvl 20 and see a Shroud up :) Declined because they're only accepting healers, but my Lfm window hasn't had the chance to load that info.

[morticianjohn]

Awesome! This is one of my biggest pet peeves in game, people who don't read LFMs. Sometimes I'll post a password in the LFM.

For the record, those few who didn't know the quest difficulty I'd have not been too hard on, as that part of the LFM setup is often neglected, and inaccurate due to the fact that it defaults to normal. So looking there and seeing normal, often means absolutely nothing as to the intentions of the poster, so many people don't bother looking at it (Hint, hint devs: Change it so there is no default difficult on LFM postings, and add Epic already!).

The only excuse to not having read the LFM is people who just logged in and their display is for the LFMs is still buggy, possibly not displaying comments yet. But generally these people are aware of that possibility and are quick to apologize and explain.

But it drives me crazy when people join, then ask about stuff that was clearly in the LFM, or worse ask "What quest?"

yeah, if you don't type the quest difficulty in the comments section you're posting your LFM poorly (and asking for there to be confusion). It was years before I even realized there was a difficulty showing when your cursor is over the quest name. I only know about it because a few months ago I was checking the forums and someone was posting how people don't read the LFM and complaining because they don't check the quest difficulty by mousing over the quest name. Only then did I realize that some people actually use that option.

I'm just saying go easy on those guys rather than just lumping them in with all of the others who didn't even bother to read the lfm.

[LazyTigerLily]

Squelch because of a decline? WOW. Effing wow.

Sarlona seems like a pretty harsh environment for PUGing. :(

It can be a harsh place indeed... :(


if you don't type the quest difficulty in the comments section you're posting your LFM poorly

Just because you don't know how to read, doesn't mean he's doing it wrong. It is pretty clear what difficulty it is if you take the time to look.

[Warlocker]

Tonight scores:
(Results)
1 Applied, no tell, I declined, then I get a tell "welcome to my squelch"
To be fair, if they were willing to squelch you just because you declined them from a pug, they probably weren't worth running with in the first place.

[morticianjohn]

It can be a harsh place indeed... :(



Just because you don't know how to read, doesn't mean he's doing it wrong. It is pretty clear what difficulty it is if you take the time to look.

It's not something you can even read unless you put your cursor in the right area. Who would even know to do that? I'm sure there is a guide somewhere that tells you all the little nuances about the social panel however, no one here can say they've read every guide before grouping or that they know everything. I specifically didn't use the word "wrong" because I don't feel it's the "wrong" thing to do. I do feel that it is substandard as the standard used by most people is to put the quest difficulty in text where you can actually read it without knowing every little detail about the social panel.

[Kages]

yeah, if you don't type the quest difficulty in the comments section you're posting your LFM poorly (and asking for there to be confusion). It was years before I even realized there was a difficulty showing when your cursor is over the quest name. I only know about it because a few months ago I was checking the forums and someone was posting how people don't read the LFM and complaining because they don't check the quest difficulty by mousing over the quest name. Only then did I realize that some people actually use that option.

I'm just saying go easy on those guys rather than just lumping them in with all of the others who didn't even bother to read the lfm.
Actually you are wrong, it is not posting a LFM poorly, its not caring. This is where I stand.

[Kages]

It's not something you can even read unless you put your cursor in the right area. Who would even know to do that? I'm sure there is a guide somewhere that tells you all the little nuances about the social panel however, no one here can say they've read every guide before grouping or that they know everything. I specifically didn't use the word "wrong" because I don't feel it's the "wrong" thing to do. I do feel that it is substandard as the standard used by most people is to put the quest difficulty in text where you can actually read it without knowing every little detail about the social panel.
After the 200th time someone is declined, they complain to the person declining, and the person declining says it is listed, common sense would kick in and say hmm wait a minute, maybe it is posted somewhere.

[morticianjohn]

Actually you are wrong, it is not posting a LFM poorly, its not caring. This is where I stand.

Clearly the OP cares enough about how people use the grouping in DDO to make a thread about it. What I'm saying is if you really want to do a proper test things should be a little more clear. IMO the way the OP has posted his LFM is similar to this photo

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q505/John_Noe/can-you-find-the-mistake.jpg

I personally haven't had all of the trouble the OP is describing he has with his LFM's. You personally might decline people for failing to read the quest difficulty in the LFM however, I played for 1.5 years without ever using that portion of the LFM and didn't have any problems with getting declined or kicked if I asked the quest difficulty. So it's not like I would have ever learned to even look there. In addition there are so many who don't even bother to change that portion it's useless to even look there (not to mention there is no epic option so at best it's inaccurate a large portion of the time).

Let's try a new experiment. Go up and down the LFM's of the day and see how many party leaders have the correct information in the LFM from quest selection, to progress, to level range and more. This is why most people prefer to send a tell to the PL before joining a quest to verify difficulty.

[MorningStarSE]

I would have liked to take this test but I can`t play during evening... >.>

[mobrien316]

Personally, I don't mind if someone hits the LFM and then asks where the quest is, or what quest we are doing, or what difficulty we are doing. It only takes a second to answer.


What does irritate me a bit is when I post an LFM for Hard and someone hits it and then, as we enter the quest on Hard, they start complaining that they have an elite streak going and they don't want to break it.

That's when I tell them, "You ought to read the LFM. If you didn't want to do anything but elite, you should post your own LFM or hit an elite LFM."

[Dracey]

Clearly the OP cares enough about how people use the grouping in DDO to make a thread about it. What I'm saying is if you really want to do a proper test things should be a little more clear. IMO the way the OP has posted his LFM is similar to this photo

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q505/John_Noe/can-you-find-the-mistake.jpg

I personally haven't had all of the trouble the OP is describing he has with his LFM's. You personally might decline people for failing to read the quest difficulty in the LFM however, I played for 1.5 years without ever using that portion of the LFM and didn't have any problems with getting declined or kicked if I asked the quest difficulty. So it's not like I would have ever learned to even look there. In addition there are so many who don't even bother to change that portion it's useless to even look there (not to mention there is no epic option so at best it's inaccurate a large portion of the time).

Let's try a new experiment. Go up and down the LFM's of the day and see how many party leaders have the correct information in the LFM from quest selection, to progress, to level range and more. This is why most people prefer to send a tell to the PL before joining a quest to verify difficulty.

IMO the OP's LFM was plenty clear enough. If the person can read the LFM to know what quest they're running then the person can hover their mouse over to view the difficulty. If they did not know that you can do that, then they probably shouldn't be questing with the OP for both their sakes.

Just because certain people can not bother to look at the mouse over doesn't mean it's useless. It's defaulted on Normal, therefore if the leader took the split second to click on Elite then the quest is going to be on Elite.

Epic is irrelevant as I am going to assume here that OP would take special attention on the description had he incorporated Epic into his experiments.

I completely disagree that most people prefer to send tell. That's an unnecessary step that can be avoided entirely. People simply prefer clarity, and that's where your argument to type the word "Elite" in your description is arguably valid.

As for your idea of a new experiment, it's not a bad idea - Go for it! :D

[Guenalicious]

What level is your ranger?

[Postumus]

I think what the OP posted is kind of funny, but I don't see the need for such a test myself. My experiences have been closer to Mobrien's I suppose.

I post an LFM and I accept any who applies. If they misread or didn't read the LFM (or if I forgot to update it) and they find out we are running a quest or difficulty they don't want to run (or can't run) then 99/100 they usually apologize and drop with no hard feelings on either side.

[morticianjohn]

If they did not know that you can do that, then they probably shouldn't be questing with the OP for both their sakes.


As I said, I was doing playing for a year or more before I discovered that function in the grouping panel. I was running epics and while I have never been one of the best players I can certainly contribute to any party at any pace. I guess it's not the norm to send tells but a lot of people do send tells to party leaders when browsing through the grouping panel. I don't want to say the OP is being negative towards those players because clearly that isn't the case although I've been a part of many discussions on the forums about this topic where people have gotten very upset because they get so many tells when they post an LFM. If you post an LFM you're going to get tells and specifically quest difficulty is one that gets a lot of tells (if you don't put it in the description) for good reason.




Just because certain people can not bother to look at the mouse over doesn't mean it's useless. It's defaulted on Normal, therefore if the leader took the split second to click on Elite then the quest is going to be on Elite.



And we've all joined that group where the PL had gotten done with a quest on elite and didn't change it back for the next quest. LFM says "mindsunder" description "in progress" and the mouseover says "elite". Really the PL had gotten done with I dream of jeets elite but he'd rather farm mindsunder on normal. So you make your way over to IQ and find out the guy is in on normal. Waste of time when it takes 2 seconds to verify.

This is why I say the mouseover (sometimes the description also but less often IME) is useless. Many people don't bother and the ones who do are frequently negligent.

[Ilindith]

what level is your ranger?

11

[Postumus]

And we've all joined that group where the PL had gotten done with a quest on elite and didn't change it back for the next quest. LFM says "mindsunder" description "in progress" and the mouseover says "elite". Really the PL had gotten done with I dream of jeets elite but he'd rather farm mindsunder on normal. So you make your way over to IQ and find out the guy is in on normal. Waste of time when it takes 2 seconds to verify.

This is why I say the mouseover (sometimes the description also but less often IME) is useless. Many people don't bother and the ones who do are frequently negligent.

No kidding. I think part of the problem is that you have to manually type the quest in the LFM. It would be nice if the LFM just displayed whatever quest you were in. Yeah I know you can do that by looking at the party members, but a lot of people don't bother with that either.

[Dracey]

As I said, I was doing playing for a year or more before I discovered that function in the grouping panel. I was running epics and while I have never been one of the best players I can certainly contribute to any party at any pace. I guess it's not the norm to send tells but a lot of people do send tells to party leaders when browsing through the grouping panel. I don't want to say the OP is being negative towards those players because clearly that isn't the case although I've been a part of many discussions on the forums about this topic where people have gotten very upset because they get so many tells when they post an LFM. If you post an LFM you're going to get tells and specifically quest difficulty is one that gets a lot of tells (if you don't put it in the description) for good reason.

You misunderstood me, I meant the potential applicant would have been incompatible with the original poster in game at that particular time due to play style differences among other things. Not that the LFM-negligent-applicant would know, but OP has a no hand holding policy. That is what I meant when I said that the applicant probably shouldn't be questing with OP for both their sakes.



And we've all joined that group where the PL had gotten done with a quest on elite and didn't change it back for the next quest. LFM says "mindsunder" description "in progress" and the mouseover says "elite". Really the PL had gotten done with I dream of jeets elite but he'd rather farm mindsunder on normal. So you make your way over to IQ and find out the guy is in on normal. Waste of time when it takes 2 seconds to verify.

This is why I say the mouseover (sometimes the description also but less often IME) is useless. Many people don't bother and the ones who do are frequently negligent.

You have not explained why it is useless but you have instead explained how it is misused and neglected. If you're going to insist that it's useless then please be more precise as to not include me. It is useless to you and a number of people but not to every single person. Likewise it is useful to me and a number of people but not every single person.



we've all joined that group...

Not me. I'm sure many have, but you can not claim all :)

[morticianjohn]

You misunderstood me, I meant the potential applicant would have been incompatible with the original poster in game at that particular time due to play style differences among other things. Not that the LFM-negligent-applicant would know, but OP has a no hand holding policy. That is what I meant when I said that the applicant probably shouldn't be questing with OP for both their sakes.




I'm telling you that there are many players out there who could help the OP speed up the quest, and be self sufficient who still send a tell asking for verification on quest difficulty. They either don't look at the mouseover purposefully or they don't know how to view the quest difficulty via the mouseover. I am telling you that I was one such player for months. You say that "they probably shouldn't be questing with the OP for both their sakes" but you don't know what the probability of that is. In my experience that is a false statement and so I was sharing that so that everyone could see both sides of the coin rather than the very negative light that puggers get put into based on reading the OP.

I haven't taken a 3-5 hour snapshot of this so everything I'm saying is based upon the experiences I've had as group leader over the past 2 years on Cannith. I've done a little for favor on Sarlona too but for the most part my experience is cannith. I do doubt that the server has any relevance to this matter but just wanted to make it clear.

TLDR: Pugging is not as bad as it's being represented in the OP. If you remove some of the more obscure elements of this experiment you will get drastically different results. This is my opinion based on the experiences I've had in the game.

[Ilindith]

ITLDR: Pugging is not as bad as it's being represented in the OP.

It is for me. Or maybe I'm just an ******* and no one really wants to group with me.

[Dracey]

I'm telling you that there are many players out there who could help the OP speed up the quest, and be self sufficient who still send a tell asking for verification on quest difficulty. They either don't look at the mouseover purposefully or they don't know how to view the quest difficulty via the mouseover. I am telling you that I was one such player for months. You say that "they probably shouldn't be questing with the OP for both their sakes" but you don't know what the probability of that is. In my experience that is a false statement and so I was sharing that so that everyone could see both sides of the coin rather than the very negative light that puggers get put into based on reading the OP.

I haven't taken a 3-5 hour snapshot of this so everything I'm saying is based upon the experiences I've had as group leader over the past 2 years on Cannith. I've done a little for favor on Sarlona too but for the most part my experience is cannith. I do doubt that the server has any relevance to this matter but just wanted to make it clear.

TLDR: Pugging is not as bad as it's being represented in the OP. If you remove some of the more obscure elements of this experiment you will get drastically different results. This is my opinion based on the experiences I've had in the game.

Okay, I'm going to state this one final time. In the specific case of Distributed at the time of his initial experiment, any person who cannot understand his LFM and requires to send him a tell has an extremely high chance of being in Distributed's way (Getting lost, dying, rage quitting, whatever the case). You may be fine, but you are in a small pool of whom Distributed is less likely to bump into. You won't understand until you've ran with him.


It is for me. Or maybe I'm just an ******* and no one really wants to group with me.

Nah, you're not an *******, at least not with my encounters. I think you just hate to waste time waiting for a group to fill. So while you're solo-ing half way past xxx quest, the good players who would have liked to run with you decide not to because they don't want to incur late xp penalty -> leaving a higher ratio of bad players to hit your LFM. This is just speculation.

[Kages]

It is for me. Or maybe I'm just an ******* and no one really wants to group with me.
Must have gone to the same ******* school as me. What year did you grad.?

[Ilindith]

Must have gone to the same ******* school as me. What year did you grad.?

I learned on my own.