Weapons Shipment Absurdly Difficult?

[mindlessdrone1991]

My static group ventured into Shavarath for the first time tonight. A few of us have been in the Devil Battleground before on different characters, and I recall The Weapons Shipment being the easiest quest out there.

So, we went in. The first bit went off without any trouble. When we left the cave, however, things took a turn for the worse. Within 30 seconds of the succubus dying, we were totally overwhelmed by the number of monsters that were spawning.

According to the wiki, monsters are supposed to spawn in waves -- after you kill one wave, the next spawns immediately. That isn't what happened. There were over a dozen archers alive when a pack of barbazu spawned; and before even half the barbazu were killed, a group of succubi spawned.

What gives? Is this quest bugged? We tried it twice, on normal, and failed both times. The first time we ran with 4 live people and 2 hirelings. The second time with 3 live people, 2 hirelings, and an Onyx Panther.

Prior to Update 11 (that's when the wiki says this quest was last changed) I solo'd this on normal with a level 20 warforged sorcerer. This static group has, up until now, gone through quests much more easily than my sorcerer was able to solo. I'm just at a loss as to why this quest is so brutal.

TL;DR - Weapons Shipment kicked our butts. Monsters seemed to spawn much more quickly than the wiki indicated that they should. What gives?

[Jingwei]

It's possible that charming the monsters makes then count as dead when it comes to spawning the next wave, but Im not sure. Don't suggest running the qust with hirelings, the scaling is pretty impressive, and especially on higher difficulties, crowd control and damage mitigation are quite important.

It probably is easier to solo these days, if your character is up to it.

[mindlessdrone1991]

It's possible that charming the monsters makes then count as dead when it comes to spawning the next wave, but Im not sure. Don't suggest running the qust with hirelings, the scaling is pretty impressive, and especially on higher difficulties, crowd control and damage mitigation are quite important.

It probably is easier to solo these days, if your character is up to it.

We didn't have any charmers, so that wasn't an issue. Though, we also didn't have crowd control capabilities, which likely would have helped. (Our cleric's comet falls and greater commands were not landing.)

If all those extra spawns were due to dungeon scaling, that's upsetting. It's sort of a bummer that grouping makes a quest so much more difficult. :/

[Rawrargh]

Weapons shipment scales like hell with the amount of people in the party, drop the hirelings to reduce the amount of spawns.

[mindlessdrone1991]

Weapons shipment scales like hell with the amount of people in the party, drop the hirelings to reduce the amount of spawns.

Thanks. We'll try that. :)

[Solmage]

Well, there are waves, sort of, but there is more than 1 wave at a time that spawns.

So it's not like wave 1, wave 2, wave 3, wave 4.

It's more like wave 1.. you have about 10 seconds to kill it.. wave 2... 10 seconds... wave 3. Then it stops until a wave is cleared. This isn't 100% accurate but it gives you an idea.

You'll really want some crowd control. You will also benefit from some spearblock/DR from the archers.

Which server are you on, and what's your party's composition?

[Demaril]

the design on that quest is stupid now, its soo much easier to solo to the poiny that elite solo is probably no harder than norm as a group

[sirgog]

If your computers can all handle it, I highly recommend trying elite in a 6-player group.

It is absolutely insane. Mobs everywhere. Chaos. Cats and dogs living together.

But lots of fun. If you have both the character gear to handle it and the computer to render the insanity that is 40+ mobs on the screen at once, some of them casting spells.

[Dendrix]

This quest suffers from double scaling.

There is the normal dungeon scaling of damage and hp based on group size that pretty much all other quests work with.

The quest also scales the number of mosters spawning in each wave with your group size.

[WanderingGrump]

Ahhh yes if you really want to do elite for Weapons Shippment, grab a party of 6 blue bars. Lots of cc--web, dancing balls, chain lightnings, ice storms, wails...

It is utter and sheer chaos but fun.

I myself find this a great soundtrack to that particular fight:

http://youtu.be/eCrnF844_ww

[Totensonntag]

all content with double scaleing is epic fail. turns ddo into a single player game.

i'm all in for challenges (not those house c type "challenges") if they need a well balanced party and some skill.

but this kind of thing renders melees useless and forces you to solo stuff instead of having a fun time with friends.

so new weapons shipment in many ways is the ****tiest approach of a quest rework i've seen so far.

even atmosphere suffers since those countless mobs spawning there do look like hords of clones to me.

[Sarisa]

It's possible that charming the monsters makes then count as dead when it comes to spawning the next wave, but Im not sure. Don't suggest running the qust with hirelings, the scaling is pretty impressive, and especially on higher difficulties, crowd control and damage mitigation are quite important.

It probably is easier to solo these days, if your character is up to it.

Completely agree. Do not use Charm in here if you want to maintain your sanity. When they're charmed, the game thinks they're dead and will spawn the next wave, and all the while vastly increasing the dungeon alert.

With even just 12 charmed mobs, and the game not waiting for you to clear between waves, it's not hard to get red alert in here which can be absolutely brutal to non-casters.

Also, what everyone else has said is true. The scaling factor can be intense, where you will get "double whacked". You get both the added HP and damage dealt by the trash, and you also get a much larger number of spawns. Hirelings don't count for a lot, but they do add a little, so get rid of any non-essential hirelings.

That said, a full party on elite in a group that's experienced and equipped enough to handle it is an absolute blast. It's definitely not something that anybody new to Amrath can jump into. Streaks can be broken without any issue once you reach Reaver's Refuge, Cannith, and Amrath.

[Bargol]

Completely agree. Do not use Charm in here if you want to maintain your sanity. When they're charmed, the game thinks they're dead and will spawn the next wave, and all the while vastly increasing the dungeon alert.

With even just 12 charmed mobs, and the game not waiting for you to clear between waves, it's not hard to get red alert in here which can be absolutely brutal to non-casters.

Also, what everyone else has said is true. The scaling factor can be intense, where you will get "double whacked". You get both the added HP and damage dealt by the trash, and you also get a much larger number of spawns. Hirelings don't count for a lot, but they do add a little, so get rid of any non-essential hirelings.

That said, a full party on elite in a group that's experienced and equipped enough to handle it is an absolute blast. It's definitely not something that anybody new to Amrath can jump into. Streaks can be broken without any issue once you reach Reaver's Refuge, Cannith, and Amrath.

...but...but nothing compares to having 20+ charmed mobs all breaking at the same time when your the only arcane in a 4 to 6 man group. It make the quest even more fun/insane. :)

[MrWizard]

If your computers can all handle it, I highly recommend trying elite in a 6-player group.

It is absolutely insane. Mobs everywhere. Chaos. Cats and dogs living together.

But lots of fun. If you have both the character gear to handle it and the computer to render the insanity that is 40+ mobs on the screen at once, some of them casting spells.

I have to agree with sirgog.
You need to have a proper build and some gear though.
Absolutely awesome craziness.

norm to elite, all good, all awesome.

for normal players, with normal builds, this is tough...and slower computers will die.

best awesomeness ever though.
(at least on a high ac character...)

[Sarisa]

Spearblock for non-AC characters makes a huge difference in this fight as well. The best being the Epic Ring of the Mire or Bramblecasters; but any crafted one or a non-epic Ring of the Mire works too.

A Kaelth's Touch trinket (5 DR/Evil) instead can also make a huge difference, and the Cursed Scarab Powder and its components are unbound. The Barbazu and the Orthons glaive (but not their crossbow) can break the Kaelth's Touch, but nothing else in there can.

[morticianjohn]

If your computers can all handle it, I highly recommend trying elite in a 6-player group.

It is absolutely insane. Mobs everywhere. Chaos. Cats and dogs living together.

But lots of fun. If you have both the character gear to handle it and the computer to render the insanity that is 40+ mobs on the screen at once, some of them casting spells.

I love it. I'll never solo it again

[Spoprockel]

You can go up to the portal (where the titan spawns) and try to pull a few mobs at a time if the waves overwhelm your static group.

[Cyndrome]

With a pale master or favored soul with moderate gear you can go in with a full group, get the planes caller to the shrine, then solo the battle outside. It is actually harder to CC everything and keep melees healed than it is to have everyone else wait in the cave until the pit fiend drops.

[Alex301]

I ran this again recently on elite with a full group and was quite impressed with the changes. It was actually quite fun, but a torc and a little DR makes the fight trivial still.

Hirelings don't contribute as much to dungeon scaling but they're not replacement for a real healer. It's probably easier to solo or do with a hire if you can, or duo it with a healer.

[squishwizzy]

I tried this three or four times with a group - first half using my melee, and the second using my caster. We got further with having more than one caster in the group.

Problem we generally had was that there were so many mobs, people started to lag. And when the healer is the one getting the lag spikes, well, you're generally screwed.

But yeah it was frickin' insane. We scaled back from hard to norm, and it was STILL insane. I originally thought that charming them was the way to go (I didn't use charm with my caster, because I didn't think of it at the time), but after reading this thread, it's clear that me forgetting to charm wasn't all that bad of a screw-up. Had I started charming them, we probably would have been screwed much faster.

I guess I don't feel so bad now...

[Bargol]

I tried this three or four times with a group - first half using my melee, and the second using my caster. We got further with having more than one caster in the group.

Problem we generally had was that there were so many mobs, people started to lag. And when the healer is the one getting the lag spikes, well, you're generally screwed.

But yeah it was frickin' insane. We scaled back from hard to norm, and it was STILL insane. I originally thought that charming them was the way to go (I didn't use charm with my caster, because I didn't think of it at the time), but after reading this thread, it's clear that me forgetting to charm wasn't all that bad of a screw-up. Had I started charming them, we probably would have been screwed much faster.

I guess I don't feel so bad now...

The way I usually run it is (The caster usually me or a guildie).....puts up cloud-kill or some other aggro generating cloud at spawn points. This gets all archers and mobs to initially aggro the caster making it easier to torc/con-op through the entire quest. Also it makes it easier to keep one area with disco balls, webs, etc. going and everything bee-lines for it allowing the caster to symbol of death, circle of death, wail large groups.

This tactic helps the melee and healer to have a little breathing room. It requires a solid caster....but if your not what are you doing in elite Amrath?

This tactic works even better if there are two casters....and makes the caster role a little easier.

Spear block / DR is essential in this quest whether normal thru elite. I usually use an item with spear block for arrows and one with either DR- or axeblock for the orthon cleaves and devil/melee tiefling slashing.

Only charm mobs when you are near then end of the waves as its amusing to have the pit fiend spawn with a small army of purple hats to beat on him.

[Atremus]

This is my most favorite quest to run when I am bored. Last time I ran it on elite in a full party we ended with 330ish kills. It really helps to have some DR for the arrows.

[Sarisa]

This is actually the mark of a good quest and design, when there are such polarized opinions on it. Just like the Pit, and to a lesser extent Crucible.

[IllOracle]

Buddy of mine (FVS) and I (LightMonk) had not a bit of trouble doing this on elite. He didn't even shrine.
Alternatively we, a full group that could be considered balanced, utterly failed after Orthons were in full swing. What a mcCrazy quest that turns into with a full party on elite.

Side note... Where have the 'Mysterious Baubles' gone? Has anyone seen these drop since the quest was changed?

[MrWizard]

ac tank + intim + DR = awesome HUGE amount of enemies..

add 1 caster with high dc wail...


= 0

[Sarisa]

Side note... Where have the 'Mysterious Baubles' gone? Has anyone seen these drop since the quest was changed?

One in close to 60 full party elite runs, but it strongly feels (by many, many people) that the drop rate was drastically reduced during that change.

[SaneDitto]

Side note... Where have the 'Mysterious Baubles' gone? Has anyone seen these drop since the quest was changed?

Yup. Pulled one a couple of weeks ago. Passed it to the party leader, though.

[aristarchus1000]

Fun quest, definitely not the easiest quest in Amrath anymore.

You will need a solid group and strategy. Try to maintain a single "kill zone" and lure everything into it, to make things easier for your caster and healers.

[zeonardo]

My cake recipe:
- FVS DR10
- Terror
- Patience

Elite solo: 190 Enemies (from the entrance to the end)
Elite 6pack: 300 Enemies (from the entrance to the end)

[Kaytis]

Hirelings don't contribute as much to dungeon scaling...

They don't add much to the mob HP or damage per attack. But they count as a full player when it comes to mob generation. I always dismiss my panther or any other hireling before stepping in. The good news is that you can dismiss the hirelings after the waves start, and the next waves will be smaller.

In my experience, there seems to be a percentage factor at play that determines when the next wave will spawn. When the current waves numbers are reduced to a certain small percentage of it's original size, the next wave will spawn. The original size of a wave is a linear multiple of the number of players and hirelings in the group -summons don't count.

I run the quest a lot and have personally seen 4 baubles drop since the change, 2 under my name, 1 of which I had to leave in the chest because I already had one and was soloing it at the time. I always run it on elite and the bauble has always dropped in the center chest, but I doubt it would be limited to that combination only. They would appear to be dropping at a lower rate than they used to, but it's difficult to draw conclusions with such a limited number of samples.

[CodyGenX]

Love it, wouldnt mind a dozen more quests that make it seem trivial. Hopefully Turbine doesnt make the gameany easier than it already is. The only problem Ive ever had was the beginning while on my ranger. She drops like a sack of potatos if your by yourself with no CC or intim. After that I buff my AC past the 75 mark, throw on my bramble casters and have a blast. In a group i have a wizzy buddy intim the waves, group up the mobs under a ball and nuke while torcing off the archers

[mindlessdrone1991]

I guess we'll try it with no hirelings, and see if we can find some spearblock (I gave everyone stoneskin from a wand when we tried it before, but it was used up pretty quickly).

The party composition is:
1 warforged artificer, ranged specced
1 warforged fighter, no AC kensai
1 elf arcane archer ranger
1 human cleric, similar build to tihocan's warpriest of syberis; DC's not high enough to stick greater command or comet fall in Shavarath -- it's been pretty potent cc until now

EDIT: All level 19. Also, we were trying it on normal.

[squishwizzy]

The way I usually run it is (The caster usually me or a guildie).....puts up cloud-kill or some other aggro generating cloud at spawn points. This gets all archers and mobs to initially aggro the caster making it easier to torc/con-op through the entire quest. Also it makes it easier to keep one area with disco balls, webs, etc. going and everything bee-lines for it allowing the caster to symbol of death, circle of death, wail large groups.

This tactic helps the melee and healer to have a little breathing room. It requires a solid caster....but if your not what are you doing in elite Amrath?

This tactic works even better if there are two casters....and makes the caster role a little easier.

Spear block / DR is essential in this quest whether normal thru elite. I usually use an item with spear block for arrows and one with either DR- or axeblock for the orthon cleaves and devil/melee tiefling slashing.

Only charm mobs when you are near then end of the waves as its amusing to have the pit fiend spawn with a small army of purple hats to beat on him.

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll look to do some of these next time if I can get a group again (it seems that very few people do Amrath on my server). To be honest, it was my first time in weapons shipment, so I really didn't have too much of a clue where the spawn points were. And because I was doing DPS the first time, and was concentrating taking out casters, I didn't really look as to where they were actually spawing.

I'm almost thinking that two casters would be a minimum on this quest becase even really good DPS takes time to mow them down. And the lil bastiges relocate (which is horribly rude when I'm trying to hack them to death).

Given Terror's reputation as a trash beater (and I'm becoming more and more of a fan of that weapon every day), I wonder how good this would be for clearing the mobs?

[Sarisa]

I guess we'll try it with no hirelings, and see if we can find some spearblock (I gave everyone stoneskin from a wand when we tried it before, but it was used up pretty quickly).

The party composition is:
1 warforged artificer, ranged specced
1 warforged fighter, no AC kensai
1 elf arcane archer ranger
1 human cleric, similar build to tihocan's warpriest of syberis; DC's not high enough to stick greater command or comet fall in Shavarath -- it's been pretty potent cc until now

EDIT: All level 19. Also, we were trying it on normal.

DR would be the biggest help. Spearblock or Kaelth's Touch are the cheapest ways to get it. Stoneskin is nice, but doesn't last long unless you have some way to constantly replenish it (like a Greater Stalwart Trinket).

When things get hairy (ie when the Barbazu and Orthons spawn), the Arti or Cleric should put up a Blade Barrier and kite those around. The devils are the ones that hit the hardest, and are the ones most likely to kill a group. The Fighter should just work on picking off the Archers or Succubi at that point, and leave the devils to the kiters.

[Ew_vastano]

personaly i think this is the best quest on the server now great fun on elite with a full group

nothing like having like 40 or 50 mobs all fighting you at the same time an absolute blast

i realy realy wish turbine would do something simaler in tower of dispair for the end fight then i might acualy enjoy the quest again instead of only running it to help groups out

[Solmage]

all content with double scaleing is epic fail. turns ddo into a single player game.

I agree. They should completely remove ALL scaling from elite. You step in, here's your 300 creatures, and they all do full damage. Have fun. Bring friends if you can't handle it.

Anyway, I try to gather 4 other peeps when someone asks me to do this quest for them because it then changes from boring to really fun with full scaling. It's really quite awesome.


I guess we'll try it with no hirelings, and see if we can find some spearblock (I gave everyone stoneskin from a wand when we tried it before, but it was used up pretty quickly).

The party composition is:
1 warforged artificer, ranged specced
1 warforged fighter, no AC kensai
1 elf arcane archer ranger
1 human cleric, similar build to tihocan's warpriest of syberis; DC's not high enough to stick greater command or comet fall in Shavarath -- it's been pretty potent cc until now

EDIT: All level 19. Also, we were trying it on normal.

Ok, based on your party composition, you're really lacking any type of serious damage mitigation, so this is a real problem. On top of that, chances are the warforged fighter doesn't have a huge amount of healing amp, and the arti will run out of mana sooner or later (likely sooner) and likely has even worse healing amp if he runs out of mana. Spearblock will be a must.

An AC intimitank (specially with evasion) could have helped. A bard fascinating or dancing stuff could have helped. A caster crowd controlling (or just plain old killing.. after all, if they're dead, they're controlled, that's my motto :)) would have helped enormously. Even if the caster's an archmage enchanter, a solid dancing ball gets you a lot of enemies in a nice row and lets your ranged dps go to town with improved precise shot.

Also, ignore the archers, once you have some DR/spearblock, they're harmless. With resists on, they do 10 damage or so per shot. with DR 10, you'll take nearly no damage. With DR 5, you'll take some, but still manageable. Worry about the other enemies first.

Lastly, depending on the DPS of the fighter, and whether he's spec'd for greatswords or not, he may benefit from a terror. With haste boost, it'll hit fairly often.

[mindlessdrone1991]

We did it! Thanks for the tips, everyone. We dropped the hirelings before we stepped out of the cave, and we ran up the hill and shot things as they made their way up to us. It still got a bit hairy at times, but we did it.

http://i.imgur.com/c2Tpf.jpg

[MrkGrismer]

My biggest problem with it is my wizard has done it over 20 times and no bauble, you get a little sick of it after a while...

[Solmage]

My biggest problem with it is my wizard has done it over 20 times and no bauble, you get a little sick of it after a while...

~140 elite runs with 6 people in it before I got my baubble =(

I used to really like the quest.. for the first 40 runs. :(

[zeonardo]

About the Bauble:
Get a few monks on the party
The 5+ times I saw it drop, it was for monks or monk splashes...

:eek:

[Solmage]

We did it! Thanks for the tips, everyone. We dropped the hirelings before we stepped out of the cave, and we ran up the hill and shot things as they made their way up to us. It still got a bit hairy at times, but we did it.



Gratz!! Always awesome to hear of someone trying something hard for them and eventually achieving victory. So much sweeter than calling for nerfs ;) Anyway, props to you and your team :)

[Shinjiteru]

About the Bauble:
Get a few monks on the party
The 5+ times I saw it drop, it was for monks or monk splashes...

:eek:

I did it on hard once and got 4 monk friends to join, 2 baubles dropped. Now there is one happy monk with a bauble out there. ;)

But back to the topic, I don't like quests which are easier if you solo them, that doesn't support the idea of team play which usually is the main reason to play online games. :S

[cpito]

Congrats on the completion! I love the beefed up WS! While I agree that casters are the best bet, the most fun I have in there in on my AA.

[Indoran]

TL;DR - Weapons Shipment kicked our butts. Monsters seemed to spawn much more quickly than the wiki indicated that they should. What gives?

now the quest is fun :3 that's what happened. You really have to put some effort (though being FvS makes it easier, the DR makes quite the difference)

I would never want it changed... run it on an easier difficulty, learn it.... try harder