Attack Sequence

[Leonovis]

I receintly found out the details of the attack sequence in DDO. I've been a player of D&D 3E/3.5 which DDO is based on. The DDO attack sequence just seems totally backwards compared to what I was used to in 3E/3.5. In DDO, when you go from a BAB of +0 to +1, you get a jump in attack bonus for the third attack in the sequence of +5. Then when you go from a BAB of +2 to +3, you get another significant jump with a 4th attack at +10.

It seem that the most optimal way to get the best attacks is to start attacking before you get into melee range and then time it so you get into melee range on your third attack in the sequence. This would maximise your attacks over the course of the battle as your third and fourth attacks in the sequence are significantly higher than your first two.

When I first started a few weeks ago, I was warned about some weird nature of the attack bonuses in DDO. No one really elaborated exactly what it was about. It wasn't until I checked the wiki that I noticed what I thought were typos on the attack bonus colums of the Advancement Tables that I thought something weird was going on. It wasn't until I looked at the two-weapon fighting feats and tried to figure out what bonuses they supposedly provided that I found the attack sequence tables.

Do monsters use the same attack sequence? If so, then it seems that it would be possible to move away before the third and fourth animation sequence in order to avoide what would seem to be sure hits. Is this one of the techniques people use to minimise damage to themselves and maximise damage on opponents in melee?

[garlor]

no, the techniques used are one of next

pew pew, meaning you are a ranged toon and run like a chicken to avoid any melee damage at all

brute, you kill him before he gets to the 3rd or 4th attack in the chain, aw doesn't really matter, he has already hit you with 1st and 2nd

god ... err caster, you finger of dead him, if not you nuke him, if not you make him dance, if not you .....

AC, you don't care in what attack in the chain he gets at you, will fail

DR, doesn't matter if he hits you or not, you will soak most of the damage

CC, you immobilize them on any way, thus no attack in the chain avail

it's good to give it a thought, it's bad to think too much, play and experience, oh and have fun too

[FrozenNova]

Monsters don't have attack sequences.
You can't reach past the second attack in your sequence while moving.

Most people discard AC here. Monster AC before Epic is insignificant compared to a typical melee's to-hit, and unless you dedicate your toon to AC at the expense of much else then the monsters will find the same thing with you.

[svinja]

I receintly found out the details of the attack sequence in DDO. I've been a player of D&D 3E/3.5 which DDO is based on. The DDO attack sequence just seems totally backwards compared to what I was used to in 3E/3.5. In DDO, when you go from a BAB of +0 to +1, you get a jump in attack bonus for the third attack in the sequence of +5. Then when you go from a BAB of +2 to +3, you get another significant jump with a 4th attack at +10.

It seem that the most optimal way to get the best attacks is to start attacking before you get into melee range and then time it so you get into melee range on your third attack in the sequence. This would maximise your attacks over the course of the battle as your third and fourth attacks in the sequence are significantly higher than your first two.

When I first started a few weeks ago, I was warned about some weird nature of the attack bonuses in DDO. No one really elaborated exactly what it was about. It wasn't until I checked the wiki that I noticed what I thought were typos on the attack bonus colums of the Advancement Tables that I thought something weird was going on. It wasn't until I looked at the two-weapon fighting feats and tried to figure out what bonuses they supposedly provided that I found the attack sequence tables.

Do monsters use the same attack sequence? If so, then it seems that it would be possible to move away before the third and fourth animation sequence in order to avoide what would seem to be sure hits. Is this one of the techniques people use to minimise damage to themselves and maximise damage on opponents in melee?

It may seem weird but it makes a lot of sense. Let me explain the reasons behind this:

1) Moving while attacking is very advantageous in DDO compared to D&D - monsters don't get free attacks on you, and you can physically dodge hits unlike in D&D, vastly reducing incoming damage, especially against multiple foes. You can even increase your attack speed by eliminating the slower parts of the attack animation. Additionally, if you stop your attack sequence, you can restart it instantly - you are not limited to doing 1 attack chain in a certain amount of time, you can do 1st attack, 2nd attack, interrupt, 1st attack, 2nd attack just like you can do 1,2,3,4. If the attack progression was descending, it would be even more advantageous to move constantly, as you would be attacking faster, avoiding damage, and eliminating the low AB hits that would come further in the chain and replacing them with the higher AB initial hits. So with the DDO ascending AB progression, by standing still, you are sacrificing the advantages of movement for a higher attack bonus. If you move, you never reach the higher AB strikes, because movement interrupts your attack sequence (and if you move constantly, you keep repeating 1st and 2nd attack).

2) You may notice that the attack sequence is front-loaded in DDO compared to D&D - you get more attacks at lower levels, and quickly stop gaining more. This is because it would be really annoying if low level combat was several times slower than level 20 combat.

[JollySwagMan]

You can reach past the second attack in a sequence while moving.

You can either tumble in between attacks, or time small movements very precisely. (hit attack, move a couple paces while still in attack animation, attack again). It's similar to 'twitching' to cut out slow attack animations, except that you're slowing down the attack rate to gain longer reach on your attacks.

I am fond of timing the Monk roundhouse kick with a jump for fun/higher attack bonus when jumping to hit a perched mob

The mob animations are not so tightly synced as they used to be, especially after the TWF change. Mobs that are starting/in the middle of an attack will still hit you a couple times if within range after they get stunned/immobilised. Caster/ranger type mobs are possibly even more annoying in this regard, as they can slide around when immobilised. This is a separate bug from the issue of blindness + incapacitated mob = sliding mob.

still: have a look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H48G8N_5wR8

[Leonovis]

The mob animations are not so tightly synced as they used to be, especially after the TWF change. Mobs that are starting/in the middle of an attack will still hit you a couple times if within range after they get stunned/immobilised. Caster/ranger type mobs are possibly even more annoying in this regard, as they can slide around when immobilised. This is a separate bug from the issue of blindness + incapacitated mob = sliding mob.

I noticed that when fighting kobolds, they seem to be able to slide away even after they are tripped. I use trip occasionally, especially against shamans to prevent them from jumping away. I was pretty annoyed when after I trip them and they are flat on their backs that they can still slide away before I finish them off. Not sure if this is a bug or just some slippery feature of kobolds.