DPS Challenge - revisited!

[katz]

Shade is no longer updating his DPS challenge thread (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=300873), and he has approved of my restarting/continuing here. All credit for the idea for this challenge, and all the wording of the rules goes to Shade. most of the first few posts are copy/pastes of the original post by Shade.

I am CURRENTLY using his previous ruleset and targets, but i am OPEN TO CHANGE if someone can suggest a REASONABLE change. if it only benefits you, no, i won't change it. if it benefits everyone, i might.

without further ado... the rules:

Here is your chance to do so.
How it works:
There are 2 targets:
1: Shroud portal - We use the one in Aussircaex Valley as it's always there and easy to get to, and identical to shroud portals. It is red named, has DR10/-, 100% fort and lots of hitpoints (exactly 12,000) and should not scale at all, as it's CR0. So it makes a nice and easy target to get very consistent results. Multiple attempts generally do not vary by more then 1 second.
Stats - CR0 Construct: DR10/-, Fort: 100%, Alignment: Lawful Evil. Immune to all elemental damage. HP:12,000
2: Warlock Sobrien (Epic) NOTE: THIS TARGET IS ON HOLD TILL WE CAN SORT OUT NEW EPIC HP. no entries for Sobrien will be accepted til this is resolved.
He is always at the start of the quest "Claw of Vulkoor" which is also very easy to get to, and since it's epic, he will not scale if you bring others into the dungeon, which you will likely need to for at least healing. Given his large hp pool and the fact he acts like any other monsters and will move and dodge some attacks, multiple attempts will vary a bit, but still represents a nice big average overall DPS for a critable target.
Stats - CR38 Giant: DR:0, Fort:0, Alignment: Lawful Evil. Weak to ice (Takes 200% from it). HP: 69,000
Spells cast: Burning Blood, Wall of Fire, Negative Energy Burst, Enervate (use deathward clicky), Delayed Blast Fireball (DC38+)

How to submit an entry - there are 2 ways:
1. (Preferred method)
Take a video of you killing the portal in Aussircaex Valley or Warlock Sobrien in Epic Claw as fast as you can, solo. And upload it to Youtube to verify your entry, submit the link here in this thread.
Preferred UI setup: Ideally have your combat log open and visible, along with the onscreen numbers if possible. If you have other players in your instance in the Sobrien video - occasionally put them in view to verify they are not attacking. (Portal is solo only, you may not have other players grouped with you.)
2. (Screenshot method for those with lower end machines, only valid for the portal)
I will accept screenshot entries at my discretion, and list them as unverified. Do this by starting a madstone clicky - then taking screenshot 1, then attack imediately when the timer reads 1:58 and attack until it's dead - the moment it dies take a 2nd screenshot. Your time will be what your timer shows on the first screenshot minus what the timer shows when the portal is dead. You must activate your buffs in such an order to enable a fast screenshot shortly after you activate madstone. Entries showing low timers of 1:50 or less at the start will be disqualified to prevent cheating.

Please include your class/lvl breakdown and if you prefer to be listed by it, character name. Preferably in the screenshots/video and your post. Also remember to tell me what weapons you are using, or include a mouse over in the video or a screenshot.

Preferably submit both, so we can see how your character does against 2 very different targets, but if you only have time for 1, thats ok.

Rules:
No holding down your spacebar.
0. Specific to the target:
- Aussircaex Valley: You'd likely need at least a haste clicky since madstone got nerfed. You can use a hireling to haste if you do a video, but screenshot entries must be solo only to be accepted. (EG: Dismiss the hireling after the haste)
- Claw of Vulkoor: Your only allowed to take 1 healer (clr/fvs only) with you and he absolutely may not do anything at all except heal you - that means no buffs either. He or you may control 1 hireling to haste you, I recommend Kaylen as he has a 2min haste. (Only allowed hirelings are Sinestra (brd), Kaylen, (sor), or Beleth (clr), no others. And Hirelings should be set to passive mode at all times to prevent them from aiding you in attacking.) Warlock Sobrien is not red named, but you must treat him as such as this is designed to be an overall boss DPS measurement, not trash or autocrit dps. You are NOT allowed to use any effects that normally do not work on red named including: Blinding, Earthgrab, Stunning, any form of autocrit, etc.. Be sure to take off any guards you have with such effects. Preferably have your healer shown in the video some of the time so we can be sure there is no cheating by them helping with a ranged attack. Again altho Sobrien is not a red named - this is intended to show boss dps (versus 0dr/0% fort bosses) you MUST treat him as such, so you cannot use any abilities that do not work on red named, such as any form of auto crit, blinding, holding, dancing, etc.

1. You're allowed only what buffs you can cast yourself* (plus haste from a hireling for Sobrien only). Timer starts when you take the first swing and ends when the target dies.

2. *-Allowed buffs:
-Any Self cast ones, or abilities: With some exceptions for balance reasons:
-Ship buffs are ok, but do not take them all as I do not want to see cut off buff bars due to having too many, the only relevant ones should be: +2 str/dex, and the +1 damage one from the orc. You may also want fire resist for epic claw.
-Yugoloth Potions are fine.
-Rage and Haste. These are generally available and sustainable for everyone in most raids, so you can get someone else to cast on you in Claw. Solo only for portal, but you may have a hireling do a haste, then dismiss it after. These are the only 2 buffs your allowed to that you don't cast yourself however.

3. -NOT allowed buffs/gear/other ways to boost dps:
A) Exceptionally short buffs - action boosts: 20 seconds or less, are only allowed after the first swing, in order to simulate much longer boss fights where your stopping a swing to continue your boosts activation.
-- Artificer note: Your boosts are kind of your rune arm blast, and as such must follow the same rule. Your timer begins the moment you charge your runearm, no precharging. Being with either a physical attack, or runearm charging start, or both, but not with a full charge already ready. Rule also applies to endless fusilade, only allowed after first shot. You are otherwise allowed to fully use your runearm and primary weapon to their full extent. If you use spellcasting also, you will be ranked only in the seperate spellcasting section, as its not sustainable.
B) Buffs you can't cast yourself (Only 2 exceptions: haste and rage - since in most groups/boss battles these can be expected to be maintained. Or even solo with hirelings/potions is generally easy enough.)
C) Exceptionally rare or hard to acquire potions with limited durations such as: Event potions (Cove, Mabar, etc), DDO Store potions (or rare things which replicate their effects), House D potions, Seasonal specific potions like cakes/cookies.
D) Exceptionally short buffs which are just not sustainable over several minutes and would not represent bigger boss dps: Fabricators Bracers, Titans Grip clicky and Berserker Fury pastlife clicky (30 second version). Or any clicky item/scroll buff with under a 2 minute duration. Buffs lasting 2+ minutes are allowed.
E) For screenshot entry's you must be in the instance alone.
F) To keep the ranking results a bit clearer: Preferably use a common weapon a lot of people have - Mineral2 (preferably one with Holy, but Good burst is fine. For monks entires to be put in the "similar weapon" category they must use holy burst hand-wraps, or simply plain +5 hand-wraps with a holy burst ring (or actually any ToD are allowed). Holyburst of Puregood are more bonus dice then min2, so go into the "any weapon" category. Entries with other weapons are welcome and strongly encouraged, but will be put into a separate ranking section. Similar greensteel weapons are fine too (Single tier1 holy) Try to include a mouse over of the weapon in the video to verify it is what you say it is.
G) UMD-Required scrolls that aren't self only. While these can sometimes count as sustainable buffs, I don't want to imbalance the challenge towards UMD-Characters unfairly. It's meant to represent group/raidgroup dps, and such scrolls, especially elemental weapons will usually be available to all players in the group, regardless of if they personally can use UMD. Scrolls that are self only are allowed, as non-umd characters would otherwise not have them even in a group.
H) Pets/Summons - Not allow for the regular melee/ranged entries. However if you feel they could add a significant amount of dps to your entry, you may use them for the caster ranking section.
I) If a new update comes out with an unusal new buff that is used, I have authority to veto the entry. While I generally will not, and instead just apply a penalty.. I encourage you to first check with me before doing the entry to save yourself some times to see if it's allowed.
3. Gear rules:
- Highly random proc weapons that work on the portal are discouraged (pretty much only disintegration since portal is immune to others) since they rely too heavily on luck.. But all weapons are still allowed, just ask you not to use on on the portal. (all weapons are allowed on Sobrien)
- Major dmg low proc chance guards vs the giant (disintegration, lightning strike, corrosive salt and crushing wave guards are allowed but discouraged, since abishai set has one you can use that, but id prefer you take other ones off) Minor dmg guards that are reliable like plain ice guard are ok.
4. Do not edit your video at all!
- Using your favourte copyrighted music is not only annoying as we all dont share the same taste in music, but also breaks Youtubes terms of service, and the rules of this challenge. Please do not edit your video in any way, just upload the raw game footage.
- Editing would allow things like speeding up the video or other tricks to improve your time. It also sometimes reduces the quality. Unedited ones are easier to verify as legit.

5. Section II: Anything goes ranking.
- This is a seperate ranking section for those who want to test there DPS to the fullest extent against Sobrien without as many restrictions. It won't represent boss DPS as well as the primary ranking section, but will allow for full sneak attack damage (from rogues or otherwise) and other abilities which won't always be functional against on red/purple bosses (such as dance clickies, etc). Blindness/Dance/etc are all allowed.
- A few rules still apply:
A) Mainly this is still a solo challenge, no other players are allowed to help you at all with offensive abilites. Just healing, haste and rage, nothing else is allowed from others.
B) No rendering Sobrien helpless, via any means. Blinded, danced, paralyzyd, etc are all ok, but nothing that will get you +50% extra damage. (Check post #2 Helpless dps challenge for the section where that is allowed)
C) No offensive scrolls (enervate, etc).



Portal Entries (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=4426432&postcount=2)
Giant Entries (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=4426435&postcount=3)
Spellcaster & Anything Goes Entries (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=4426437&postcount=4)
History (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=4426439&postcount=5)

[katz]

Mineral2 (or equiv) Portal Entries:

Greataxer (Half Orc Bbn/Ftr 18/2 THF) 48 seconds. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoQR6exRa-0&hd=1)
Tetherball (Half Orc Ftr/Bbn/Bard 12/6/2 TWF) 48 seconds. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9-RYCRCfQM&hd=1)
Alpine in ranger form (Half Orc Rng/Bbn/Ftr 12/6/2 TWF) 49 seconds. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5B5ngS_INY&hd=1)
Several (Half-Orc FB Bbn/Ftr lvl18/2 TWF) 52 seconds. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKihNNRNnQM&hd=1)
Axer (Dwarf FB Barb lvl20 THF) 54 seconds. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-eX3SDXRgI&hd=1)
Alpine (Half-Orc 12/7/1 Ftr/Bbn/Wiz TWF) 55 seconds. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSNr8lkXg-g&hd=1)
Greataxer (Dwarf Kensai Ftr/Barb 18/2 THF - Raged) 1:07 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRGF_16yyjs&hd=1)
Jukuyim (WF Rng/Ftr/Rog 12/7/1 TWF) 1:08 (http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/4898/screenshot00240.jpg)*
Dualaxer (Dwarf FB Barb lvl20 TWF ): 1:13 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxI8fyGZA-g&hd=1) **
Greataxer (Dwarf Kensai Ftr/Barb 18/2 THF - no rage): 1:17 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRGF_16yyjs)
Deeheigh (Elf 18/1/1 Rng/Mnk/Rog TWF) 1:21 (http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/5552/screenshot00068q.jpg)
Thylys (Human Wiz/Barb/Rog 17/2/1 THF) 2:00 (http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums/af208/Lykanthar/ScreenShot00128.jpg)*


Any Weapon Portal Entries:

Aygo (Half-Elf Ftr/Rng/Bbn 12/6/2 - anarchic bow of smiting + holy arrows + manyshot) [/URL][U]15 seconds (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR7V9iRT9Fw&hd=1).
Smitheuse (Half-Elf Ftr/Rng/Mnk 12/6/2 AA Anarc Longbow of Smite (+5 arrows, doubleboost manyshot) 23 seconds (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2kLqkTVeNk&hd=1)
Byrron (Human Ftr/Monk/Rog 10/9/1) +2 anarc Wraps of smite) 26 seconds (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oieanJs_UU&hd=1)
--------Byrron (Next life as Pure 20 wisdom based monk vs str) 34 seconds (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qOKQX83btA&hd=1)
Rishnarck - (Warforged Mnk/Ftr/Rng 12/7/1 Vicous Smiting Wraps) 32 seconds. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bulOhtHqIgo&hd=1%22)
Buffybot - (Warforged Mnk/Ftr/Pal 12/6/2 Holy GCB HW) 36 seconds. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9toMjD7dCM&hd=1)
Groan (Half-Orc Ftr/Bbn/Rog 12/6/2 ABGCB Khop + HGCB BS) 39 seconds. (http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a107/nick_robinsonchia/ScreenShot00057.jpg) *
Cetuss (Half-Orc lvl20 ftr TC Smiting Greatsword) 40 seconds. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiJc3-4AaDc&hd=1)
Ocular (WF 12/8 ftr/mnk) Holy Smite Wraps) 41 seconds. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBxbKlAThyM&hd=1)
Grafven (Human lvl20 Monk Holy Smiting Wraps 43 seconds. (http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt260/loregraf/ScreenShot00012.jpg) *
Tetherball - (Half-Orc Ftr/Barb/Bard 12/6/2 TWF HB GCB) 42 seconds. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGVYFiWkC3U&hd=1)
Greataxer - (Half-Orc Bbn/Ftr 18/2 THF ESoS) 42 seconds. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSl2ibEZomk&hd=1)
Lyriah - (Elf 13/16/1 Rog/Rng/Ftr TWF - eShatterbow Many shot + Dual ABGCB after) 43 seconds (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXc-ZE6IkvY&feature=youtu.be)
Several - (Half-Orc FB Barb/Ftr lvl18/2 TWF AB GCB) 44 seconds. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqvv4Jx0YF8&hd=1)
Sideous 12/6/2 Fighter/Paladin/Rogue Kensei/DOS 45 seconds (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rTZ7rAaagw&hd=1)
Kyllbot - (Half-Orc Bbn/Ftr 18/2 THF Vicious GCB) 52 seconds (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIIp4YPf6_A)
Haek (Human Brd/Ftr/Rog 12/6/2 Dual +5 Vicious ada of GCB Khopesh) 52 seconds (http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/2623/screenshot00214x.jpg) *
Extterminate - (WF Barb/Ftr 18/2 THF - ESoS) 53 seconds. (http://i433.photobucket.com/albums/qq58/natanmager/after.jpg)*
Kyllbot - (WF Pure Barb THF - Vicious GCB) 53 seconds. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTLW_kWa0IA&hd=1)
Aggrim - (WF Pure Art - HBGCB HvyRptr + Lucid Dreams) 53 seconds (http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb469/Deathdefy2/ScreenShot00101.jpg)*
Marishi - (Human Pure Monk - FB of Smiting HW) 1:04. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39OfQF4utjM&hd=1)
Teenie Tiny (Halfling lv20 Monk - GCB Wraps) 1:07 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5j1GgKZh0E&hd=1)
Thylandrus (WF Wiz/Ftr/Rng 8/6/6 - TWF ???) 1:08 (http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums/af208/Lykanthar/ScreenShot00004-1.jpg)
Monkeyarcher (Dwarf Pal/Monk/Ftr 15/3/2 - S&B HBGCB dwarf axe + tower shield) 1:10 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OnYVTCfruE&feature=youtu.be)
Pointless Waste of Time (Halfling Bard/Barb/Rog 16/2/2 - dual Mace of Smiting (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Weapon:Mace_of_Smiting)) 1:23 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YIBOEAqMGI&feature=youtu.be)
Syllexys (Elf lvl20 Rogue - TWF HBGCB + CB) 2:52* (http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/3447/syllexysfinish.jpg)

[katz]

NOTE: ALL ENTRIES IN THIS SECTION ARE BASED ON PRE U-14 EPIC CHANGES. FUTURE ENTRIES ARE ON HOLD TILL THE EPIC CHANGES TO SOBRIEN ARE SORTED OUT.

Mineral2 (or equiv) Giant Entries:
Alpine in ranger form (Half Orc Rng/Bbn/Ftr 12/6/2 TWF - Khopesh) 3:12 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ygq-i8AMnU&hd=1)
Monkeyarcher (Half-Orc lvl20 Kensai Ftr - Falcion) 3:25 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKa02XDe228&hd=1)

Any Weapon Giant Entries:
Aygo (Half-Elf Ftr/Rng/Bbn 12/6/2 - eThornlord manyshot + twf cold khop 1:50 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLsyXxaayHk&feature=youtu.be)
Larvenk (Half-Orc lvl 20 Ftr THF - ESoS) 2:04 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VG6hZ0oIts&feature=plcp&context=C3ce4089UDOEgsToPDskLdtQxw3JKMfFoV_0Zw7i-B)
Cetuss (Half-Orc lvl20 Ftr THF - Twitch ESoS) 2:07 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDBBEwmIJv8&hd=1)
Children (Half-Orc FB Bbn/Ftr 18/2 THF - Autocleave ESoS) 2:16 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1QxFfaYcsI&hd=1)
Laeris (Half-Orc lvl20 Ftr TWF - Dual Lit2 Khops) 2:19 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-SSfAhg18E&hd=1)
Hmpf (Half-Orc FB lvl20 Bbn THF - ESoS) 2:28 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFjlzui_Ms4&hd=1)
Kjeldorn (Half-Orc lvl20 Ftr THF - Twitch ESoS) 2:31 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUoVrZFkbwA&hd=1)
Zavarthak (Half-Orc lvl20 Ftr TWF - Dual Lit2 Khops) 2:31 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksJ-Y2rGuBA&hd=1)***
Greataxer (Half-Orc FB Bbn/Ftr 18/2 THF - ESoS) 2:40 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS4WLPBYC0g&hd=1)
Krythan (WF Kensai Ftr lvl20 THF - Twitch ESoS) 2:50 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2unUwPRYUM8&hd=1)
Metalaxer (WF FB Barb lvl20 THF - ESoS) 2:50 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l54Wm_Zt4WU&hd=1)
Byrron (Human Monk lvl20 IcyB GGB Wrap) 2:52 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSHF9QYLagw&hd=1)
Grunzo (Dwarf 12/6/2 Ftr/Bbn/Rog TWF Lit2 DA) 2:53 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGpfE3Yg_1M&hd=1)
Rishnarck (Warforged Mnk/Ftr/Rng 12/7/1 Vicous GGB Wraps) 2:57 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_mlu0nsyMg&hd=1)
Dualaxer (Dwarf FB lvl20 Barb TWF - Dual GGB) 3:55 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNUmJ9f96KI&hd=1)
Teenie Tiny (Halfling lv20 Monk - GGB Wraps) 5:10 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7eap36Ze0U)
Grunzar (Dwarf 18/2 DoS Pal/Rog - non-epic sos / Hellfail ga) 6:14 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfIdCYKwKcM&hd=1) ***

[katz]

Caster Entries (no real rules towards what spells you can use, just use only magic and not melee or ranged, summons and other unsustainable stuff is allowed here.):
Portal:

Obliterator (Evocation Archamge spec on Lamannia) 1:03 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UV2uDEHYrug&hd=1)
Laelyth (Lvl19 evocation Archmage spec on Live) 2:14 (http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/2052/laelythfinish.jpg)

Giant:

Ryumajin (human lvl 20 water savant sorcerer, Cannith) 28 seconds (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSuC5aZ-j1o)
Monkeyarcher (lvl20 water savant sorcerer on Lamannia max burst) 55 seconds (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpYqadrbhDc&hd=1)
Monkeyarcher (lvl20 water savant sorcerer on Lamannia using SLAs) 5:35 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pP8RSTmvBA&hd=1)


Section II: Anything goes vs Portal.


Theoloco (Human Cler/Arti/Ftr 13/6/1, alchemical repeater + Tira's Splendor + spells) 58 seconds (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-ffvBzQYhs&feature=youtu.be)

Section III: Anything goes vs Sobrien.

Kyorli (Human Pure Rog, Epic Vulkoorim Dagger + Rad2 Khop TWF) 1:50 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-03oo1cMfU&hd=1)
Vokko (Halfling Pure Rog, Lit2 + Rad2 Rapiers TWF) 2:40 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A58OYUD6uA0&hd=1)

[katz]

History:
DPS Challenge Part1 (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=200183) (Part 2 was added due to MAJOR changes in the game to heavily nerf all melee DPS in U5, Part3 may happen if similar changes happen again, but only on a MAJOR scale)

DPS Challenge Part2 (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=300873) ceased to be updated by Shade in January 2012. I have taken over with his blessing.

The idea and premise and almost all of the wording of the this and the previous several posts are Shade's, copy/pasted from the original DPS Challenge part2 thread. The builds linked below are also his. I am carrying on with this as I didn't want the thread/idea to die.

Archived Entries: (Same character/ as listed above in an entry, slower time due to either older gear/older tr or other factors):

Cetuss (Half-Orc lvl20 Ftr THF - Twitch ESoS) 2:20 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVWUcS3_LZw&hd=1) (Giant)
Byrron (Human lvl20 Monk GCB Wraps) 48 seconds. (http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums/af208/Lykanthar/ScreenShot00008-1.jpg)* (Portal)
Sideous (12/6/2 Fighter/Paladin/Rogue Stalwart Anarch Smite Scim TWF) 52 Seconds (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uy1EnNw0MW0&hd=1) (Portal)
Byrron (Human lvl20 Monk - GGB Wraps) 3:43 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nhXYaTy9SM&hd=1) (Giant)


* Unverified entries (no video)

Direct apples to apples comparison for the portal:
** These are purposely designed to be a apples to apples THF vs TWF comparison. They have IDENTICAL stats (Str: 60), build, and equipment where it matters: Both are Dwarf, both have axe dmg, both have the same feats (except thf vs twf obviously), and the same enhancements. Both use mineral weapons (Greataxe vs Dwarven axes) (or just single tier holy since mineral does the same thing in this case, only 2d6 bonus dice)
Axer (Dwarf FB Barb lvl20 THF - 60 str ): 58 seconds. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4TeV9sGbDk&hd=1) **
vs
Dualaxer (Dwarf FB Barb lvl20 TWF ): 1:13 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxI8fyGZA-g&hd=1) **
*** Penalty applied due to minor rule breaking.

Dualaxers weapons - screenshot. (http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/4414/screenshot00316.jpg)

To give you an idea of DPS figures attached to these builds:
Melee:
Entry #1 vs Sobrien (69,000HP in 2:07 = 543 DPS)
Slowest entry vs Sobrien (69,000HP in 6:14 = 184 DPS)

Caster max burst:
Entry #1 vs Sobrien (69,000HP in 55 seconds= 1255 DPS)

Builds matching characters used in my videos:
Dwarf THF Build: Here (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=116814)
Dwarf TWF Build: Here (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=133445)
Warforged Build: Here (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=199947)
Halforc Build: Here (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=298161)

PS: Making videos isnt that hard, guide here:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=249197

[Inferno346]

Somehow Spellcaster & Anything Goes Entries is linking to post 3 even though it says it is post 4. Very odd... I am deeply disturbed.

[katz]

Somehow Spellcaster & Anything Goes Entries is linking to post 3 even though it says it is post 4. Very odd... I am deeply disturbed.

the history link was screwed up too. fixed em both. thanks ^_^

[Cetus]

Heres a suggestion:

I've done this challenge dozens of times and have come to the conclusion that one ranking post is insufficient to distinguish damage output between builds.

Instead, although more tedious, a much more accurate representation of someones submission is a sample size of videos of which an average dictates the beatdown time.

I think that folks that have submitted entries (myself included) would provide a much better metric from, say, 5 or 6 entries rather than that perfect 1 where possibly an exceptionally nice row of crits was offsetting the actual time.

Just a thought.

[Zerkul]

Hello Katz,

just wondering if this video could see some ranking in the caster section.

Ryumajin VS Sobrien - Clean Version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSuC5aZ-j1o) / Edited One (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpNHiAvrWRc) .

BR,
Z.

[ayspam]

Well I ll post mine here again.

Aygo 15 sec portal takedown (http://youtu.be/vN4KUPrp_x8)

from the first shot to register on the portal to when the xp box comes up 15.1 secs.

All items used can be clearly seen.

Aygo vs Sobrien (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLsyXxaayHk&feature=youtu.be)somewhere between 1:50-1:52.

Equipment: eThornlord force damage + giant bane arrows, Triple ice khopeshes force damage.

[Nick_RC]

Well I ll post mine here again.

Aygo 15 sec portal takedown (http://youtu.be/vN4KUPrp_x8)

from the first shot to register on the portal to when the xp box comes up 15.1 secs.

All items used can be clearly seen.

Aygo vs Sobrien (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLsyXxaayHk&feature=youtu.be)somewhere between 1:50-1:52.

Equipment: eThornlord force damage + giant bane arrows, Triple ice khopeshes force damage.

Beast.

[Kinerd]

Heres a suggestion:

I've done this challenge dozens of times and have come to the conclusion that one ranking post is insufficient to distinguish damage output between builds.

Instead, although more tedious, a much more accurate representation of someones submission is a sample size of videos of which an average dictates the beatdown time.

I think that folks that have submitted entries (myself included) would provide a much better metric from, say, 5 or 6 entries rather than that perfect 1 where possibly an exceptionally nice row of crits was offsetting the actual time.

Just a thought.This would be a very very very good thing to add, and I hope the suggestion gains traction. For whatever reason, Shade was adamantly opposed to it when I suggested it to him.

Good job katz keeping the idea going.

[Zerkul]

This would be a very very very good thing to add, and I hope the suggestion gains traction. For whatever reason, Shade was adamantly opposed to it when I suggested it to him.

Good job katz keeping the idea going.

There are two sources of Bias this way: Variability Bias + Performance Bias. It is true that you can get a larger amount of lightning strikes / Criticals if you repeat the giant more than once, but also your performance would vary (better twich, better sticking to the target, better or worse boosts activation, etc.).

I like the challenge the old way but i don't mind the suggestion as well. Up to Katz that has to do little more work to watch more than one video.

[katz]

i am working my way thru the entries that were missed in the previous thread. i know i have a few entries added/fixed, but i also lost 1 or 2 due to a browser crash before save changes. it's slow going because my internet has been acting up lately, making the vids load VERY slowly. i *should* have everything updated within the next few days. i hope. :eek:

[Zerkul]

OFF Topic...

ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED: "Being Ignored (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=4426900&postcount=9)" :p !!


EDIT: Thanks Very much Katz :) .

[katz]

not ignoring you. just had alot going on this week. moving. internet issues, power out, new job, and just yesterday twisting my ankle.

i SWEAR i will get this all updated. soon.

[Thrudh]

Again altho Sobrien is not a red named - this is intended to show boss dps (versus 0dr/0% fort bosses) you MUST treat him as such, so you cannot use any abilities that do not work on red named, such as any form of auto crit, blinding, holding, dancing, etc.

But sneak attack DOES work on red-names, therefore this test is flawed because you are making sure that sneak attack never happens on Sobrien although it does happen on bosses.

I'm not sure why we are continuing with Shade's folly... Really strange, considering your signature.

At the very least, we better not ever see you post how rogue DPS sucks and then refer to this thread you've made "as proof" like Shade once did.

[Chai]

But sneak attack DOES work on red-names, therefore this test is flawed because you are making sure that sneak attack never happens on Sobrien although it does happen on bosses.

I'm not sure why we are continuing with Shade's folly... Really strange, considering your signature.

At the very least, we better not ever see you post how rogue DPS sucks and then refer to this thread you've made "as proof" like Shade once did.

The whole series was nothing more than entertainment to begin with. The pilot episode: Lets Test on the Reaver, was quickly shot down with cries of "ZOMG ITS IMMUNE TO LIGHTNING AND HOLY!! ITS NOT A FAIR TEST!!"

Then the entire SA damage thing got brought up quite a few different instances. I was waiting for someone to post a video with him blinded, anyhow, which did eventually happen, but was late on arrival and did not happen during one of the particular times it could have pushed the hilarity to a whole new level.

If anything, this proved that the DDO community isnt ready for any type of tools that force us to wear a DPS number on our sleeve to make sure all the ubers dont invite the rest of us plebs to raids we have all beaten 150 times over on the same toons already. People wont even agree on what a fair test is, many certainly wont agree when one class come out on top of the "post your best video with the best string of crits" contest, heh.




I think that folks that have submitted entries (myself included) would provide a much better metric from, say, 5 or 6 entries rather than that perfect 1 where possibly an exceptionally nice row of crits was offsetting the actual time.

Just a thought.

This.

For those serious about understanding build performance, this kind of test would help eliminate peaks and valleys by bringing the law of large numbers into play.

[katz]

But sneak attack DOES work on red-names, therefore this test is flawed because you are making sure that sneak attack never happens on Sobrien although it does happen on bosses.

I'm not sure why we are continuing with Shade's folly... Really strange, considering your signature.

if this post is directed at me (slightly hard to tell for sure considering there's no name associated with the quote) i decided to continue this thread because i personally thought it was a fun little challenge. i am not Shade. as i said at the beginning, i am open to changes in format and test, if such change can be suggested in a manner that makes sense and doesn't benefit any one person/class



At the very least, we better not ever see you post how rogue DPS sucks and then refer to this thread you've made "as proof" like Shade once did.

now whyever would i do a silly thing like that. :cool: as i said. i am not Shade.


as for taking an average of your times, as opposed to your one single best time sounds like a fair idea to me. averages are better than single numbers for accuracy purposes, that much certainly makes sense. if someone wishes to submit an average, do so. if someone wishes to submit a single, do so. if i get many submissions that are averages instead of singles, i'll figure out a way to denote the difference.


also... i THINK i have everything updated. if i missed anyone, let me know

[ayspam]

How many averages would be sufficient? 5,10,15,20?

How will you be able to tell that people wont farm for the best 5 or 10 best times they can get and average those times?

I for one dont have the time or the patience anymore to record, edit, and upload, so many videos.

[Thrudh]

i am open to changes in format and test, if such change can be suggested in a manner that makes sense and doesn't benefit any one person/class

Then I suggest you allow blinded, so rogues and rogue splashes can compete fairly in this "DPS challenge". Even though they cannot blind a red-name boss, they do get sneak attack damage on red-name bosses, and blinding Sobrien will show a more accurate DPS number for the pure 20 rogue, 12/7/1 fighter/rogue/monk , etc. characters out there.

[Monkey-Boy]

Then I suggest you allow blinded, so rogues and rogue splashes can compete fairly in this "DPS challenge". Even though they cannot blind a red-name boss, they do get sneak attack damage on red-name bosses, and blinding Sobrien will show a more accurate DPS number for the pure 20 rogue, 12/7/1 fighter/rogue/monk , etc. characters out there.

We tested this in-guild (and extended family) with a 20 warchanter bard where Sobrien was danced, surrounded, and blinded. Did tests with and without songs to see the difference. Did a bunch of different builds for a cross-reference . . . It was a lot of fun but then then stopped bothering.

Why? The results were all close enough to what could be estimated by AO's DPS calc that it wasn't worth doing for every toon.

Durnak's right, a single best time is nothing but ePeen and does not give you a clear measure. You would need an average of multiple times to get a clear reading. Sometimes Sorbien runs around like a maniac, other times he stands still and takes the beating. Having a "clean" instance is a huge factor in getting a better time.

But ePeen contests are fun, just don't pretend this is anything but that.

[Wraith_Sarevok]

Sorry, but you're not Shade and you can't just walk up and steal his challenge without any form of permission or passing of the torch.

As much as you want to continue the challenge, no real high-level player is going to support this without consent.

[Chai]

Sorry, but you're not Shade and you can't just walk up and steal his challenge without any form of permission or passing of the torch.

As much as you want to continue the challenge, no real high-level player is going to support this without consent.

Consent of what? Its not like its copyrighted or some such. Besides, he actually told people to go start their own threads if they wanted to do this type of stuff with different sets of restrictions if players werent satisfied with his restrictions or his chosen targets.

[katz]

if i could ask his consent, i would. i'm not stealing his idea. i'm trying to honor it


if you don't like that i am the one who decided to pick up this torch, you are free to not post your results here. you can post them in Shade's original post. but it won't get updated.

i can't and won't say anything further on that matter

[Kinerd]

Sorry, but you're not Shade and you can't just walk up and steal his challenge without any form of permission or passing of the torch.

As much as you want to continue the challenge, no real high-level player is going to support this without consent.I can't believe you're serious.
How many averages would be sufficient? 5,10,15,20?

How will you be able to tell that people wont farm for the best 5 or 10 best times they can get and average those times?

I for one dont have the time or the patience anymore to record, edit, and upload, so many videos.It could be intentionally circumvented, but it at least prevents people from unintentionally uploading unrepresentative times. I think 5 would be plenty for that goal. Ideally you could have someone go through and count low % procs like crits, supercrits, lightning strikes, etc. but that's a bit much.

[giggiddy]

Sorry, but you're not Shade and you can't just walk up and steal his challenge without any form of permission or passing of the torch.

As much as you want to continue the challenge, no real high-level player is going to support this without consent.

You so silly tee hee

[Shade]

Don't mind too much, tho...

You could ask. I'm not actually that difficult to contact.

While i have been rather slow at replying to PMs lately.. I might be a bit quicker lately as my pm box isn't quite full anymore heh.

Also you can usually get me ingame if you really wanna. I have been on my usual schedule, which much of khybers endgame players are well aware of (7pm est, every tues and fri, usually on Obliterator or Greataxer. Plus my ingame mail rarely fills up and I do read that.

Anyways, yea I don't have time to update the challenge anymore sadly.. So I do like that you wanna take up the torch..

The dps challenge was never about me no matter what people thought, it was always here to help the community better understand dps differences between classes and styles.. So it would be nice to see it kept going.

But I do have some preferences on the exact details on how you use my work, so maybe shoot me a PM if u wanna hear em.

[Teharahma]

Don't mind too much, tho...

You could ask. I'm not actually that difficult to contact.

While i have been rather slow at replying to PMs lately.. I might be a bit quicker lately as my pm box isn't quite full anymore heh.

Also you can usually get me ingame if you really wanna. I have been on my usual schedule, which much of khybers endgame players are well aware of (7pm est, every tues and fri, usually on Obliterator or Greataxer. Plus my ingame mail rarely fills up and I do read that.

Anyways, yea I don't have time to update the challenge anymore sadly.. So I do like that you wanna take up the torch..

The dps challenge was never about me no matter what people thought, it was always here to help the community better understand dps differences between classes and styles.. So it would be nice to see it kept going.

But I do have some preferences on the exact details on how you use my work, so maybe shoot me a PM if u wanna hear em.

And if he just starts from scratch ?

(S)he wouldn't have to bother with all that hassle of contacting the allmighty DPS god. :')

[Shade]

Yea true I've always encouraged others to start there own variations.

But if it's pretty much mostly a copy and paste, it's a lil different. I put a lot of work into this.

re: The recent replies about new ideas:

The dps challenge has always been about simplificity. If a player cant run in and record an attempt in a few minutes, they are not gona bother - I know this from countless pm and tells ingame. Trying to require several repeat attempts, encodes, and uploads isn't going to work.

And I don't really agree it varies to that extent from attempt to attempt. As I said, for the portal, 100% of my attmepts never varied by more then 1 second with exact same gear/buffs/attack style/etc. On the giant it was a few seconds, but always within a 5% margin of error. For the guy who suggested it, I get he is the outlier case:
-completionist (0.00001% of pop or less)
-twitch thf (another very rare, variable case, sub 1% of pop imo, and only benefits a single class/style (thf ftr) )

For most, the variance would be a lot less then he might experience, as player skill applies a lot to his attempts, where most others the only factors are:
-gear
-build
-buffs
-random factors - which tend to be averaged out due to the long length of the fight.

Plus even if they did, theres nothing stopping them froming doing 10 or more attempts and taking the top X, X being whatever u think is fair, it would still weigh it on the high end as the challenge is designed to aggregate against.

[praetor]

is this thread still being updated?

[katz]

i am keeping an eye on this thread, yes. if i see any entries i'll review and add them as soon as i am able.

[Zerkul]

With the new Epics Settings we might want to review the giant HPs since the CR might have changed. Is there someone who want to re-check Sobriend HPs? Or explain me an easy system to do it :P?

[Viren1]

With the new Epics Settings we might want to review the giant HPs since the CR might have changed. Is there someone who want to re-check Sobriend HPs? Or explain me an easy system to do it :P?

And perhaps pick an epic difficulty to run at, seeing that e casual will differ significantly from e anything else...

[katz]

With the new Epics Settings we might want to review the giant HPs since the CR might have changed. Is there someone who want to re-check Sobriend HPs? Or explain me an easy system to do it :P?

definitely a good point. i'm not sure how to calculate mob HP. i am sure it would be different amounts, tho, for every epic difficulty.

[gphysalis]

Epic dungeons started scaling, so that might be a problem with the giant

[flute136]

ok so i went into claw by myself. did normal,hard,elite sobrien. normal and hard were a joke, definetly below regular 69khp. and epic elite was closest id have to say. so when you do sobrien do EE :)

[Zerkul]

Epic dungeons started scaling, so that might be a problem with the giant
Epic Elites do not scale so there's no problem with that.

[giggiddy]

Epic Elites do not scale so there's no problem with that.

You sure about that?

[Cetus]

Hmm...a hitpoint metric would be nice on this dude.

[Zerkul]

You sure about that?
I'm 99% sure i read it somewhere and can confirm it by gameplay experience. Since i do Epic Elites everyday i use to keep the auto lfm feature on when i know i can handle a quest with my skills alone. For Epic Hards there's for sure scaling and often i do not invite people.

[giggiddy]

Hmm...a hitpoint metric would be nice on this dude.

Isn't there someone out there with 5k giant slayers to unlock his info?? :P

[Cetus]

Isn't there someone out there with 5k giant slayers to unlock his info?? :P

lol...I find that rediculous to begin with. but perhaps thats for a different discussion...

[brzytki]

Epic Elites do not scale so there's no problem with that.


I'm 99% sure i read it somewhere and can confirm it by gameplay experience.

Here's a thread for you: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=390524

To me it looks like it does scale, at least the HP part.

[Zerkul]

Here's a thread for you: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=390524

To me it looks like it does scale, at least the HP part.

Well, guess it's time to bug report it? :(

[Cetus]

I think its a good time revive this, most folks that are serious about maxing their melee's damage output have already destiny capped and gear tweaked for the most part.

I'm curious to see what other class champions can show us.

I've done a few videos myself so far, just didn't bother to upload em.

If this gets revived I'll upload em.

My suggestions, which is how I recorded my video:

Timer starts from first damage number to appear above giants head. Pre-boosting is allowed (this is how I approach every target, I boost before I hit it. Shade's idea to not count the pre boost was dumb in my opinion)

SA are DEFINITELY a viable source of damage. Encourage its inclusion.

Include a stunned entry category in addition to the straight beatdown.

Walk in ALONE on EE. He doesn't do any damage really, no healer needed.

Record 5 videos, preferably first 5. Can't stop anyone from going in there 20 times and nit picking, but 5 videos would be better than ***THE ONE**.

Things I'd like to see:

ESOS vs. Drow Greataxe (did a few of these myself)

BARB vs. Fighter each in LD and FOTW

Monk with dual stuns going

Rogue with full blown SA dmg in various Destiny's.

Not really interested in caster entries, dragon breath and energy burst trivialize the challenge, pretty much already know whats gonna happen there.

[Zerkul]

I'm curious to see how my old Kensai now DDD Build (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=4623445&postcount=1) is placed on killing time VS Sobrien against your more straightforward DPS build. As soon as i have some time i'll start doing some videos as well, busy with thesys right now :) .

Real Combat Scenario is always that side of the DPS math brings on the best info.

[Ape_Man]

I think its a good time revive this, most folks that are serious about maxing their melee's damage output have already destiny capped and gear tweaked for the most part.

I'm curious to see what other class champions can show us.

I've done a few videos myself so far, just didn't bother to upload em.

If this gets revived I'll upload em.

My suggestions, which is how I recorded my video:

Timer starts from first damage number to appear above giants head. Pre-boosting is allowed (this is how I approach every target, I boost before I hit it. Shade's idea to not count the pre boost was dumb in my opinion)

SA are DEFINITELY a viable source of damage. Encourage its inclusion.

Include a stunned entry category in addition to the straight beatdown.

Walk in ALONE on EE. He doesn't do any damage really, no healer needed.

Record 5 videos, preferably first 5. Can't stop anyone from going in there 20 times and nit picking, but 5 videos would be better than ***THE ONE**.

Things I'd like to see:

ESOS vs. Drow Greataxe (did a few of these myself)

BARB vs. Fighter each in LD and FOTW

Monk with dual stuns going

Rogue with full blown SA dmg in various Destiny's.

Not really interested in caster entries, dragon breath and energy burst trivialize the challenge, pretty much already know whats gonna happen there.

5 videos is excessive, especially considering Youtube's upload times.

It sounds like you have already done some of these comparisons, care to share some results? I've always been more interested in analysis than ePeen.

[Cetus]

5 videos is excessive, especially considering Youtube's upload times.

It sounds like you have already done some of these comparisons, care to share some results? I've always been more interested in analysis than ePeen.

5 video's isn't excessive if a more accurate time depiction is desired. 5 is still on the low side, since its still easy to pick out the best 5, but we can't control how honest folks will be.

I did record about a dozen videos, mostly to settle some more difficult build decisions I had. If the community is interested in providing some of their times with top contender builds, I'd be eager to provide my contribution.

[Chai]

5 videos is excessive, especially considering Youtube's upload times.

It sounds like you have already done some of these comparisons, care to share some results? I've always been more interested in analysis than ePeen.

Now that we can reset the quest by stepping out and clicking the reset button, 5 videos would be easy to do.

If you have a video editing program, you can render one longer video of all of them back to back to back, and upload the same file.

[Cetus]

Now that we can reset the quest by stepping out and clicking the reset button, 5 videos would be easy to do.

If you have a video editing program, you can render one longer video of all of them back to back to back, and upload the same file.

Lol good point, I'm a dope for not making that connection lol.

[Spellburst]

Does anyone already know the HP of Warlock Sobrien in EE? As it scales (or maybe scales), I would ask when going alone. The only information I found is a youtube video (http://youtu.be/ZaVXkuDY7dY) which claims 69000 hp for its calculus.