Subterrane on High Settings - Hardware damage?

[TekkenDevil]

So basically I entered subterrane this morning, while all my graphical options were maxed out. For the entire time I was in there, the game kept freeze framing constantly. (No, not low performance. This was a genuine shadow bug, the same as Necro II crypt.)

I was in a raid group and wanted to keep up so I kept playing, haphazardly.
10 minutes later, I got a blue screen and had to restart PC. Since then, my framerate in games has taken a huge hit, and just 30 minutes ago, I crashed again, playing Trine 2, with my screen turning into a rainbow splurge, requiring a hard reset.


So unless somebody can prove to me that the subterrane lighting glitch did NOT put my GPU into overdrive, causing it to malfunction, then that means that CONGRATULATIONS, Turbine, you now officially have a King Bug on your bug-infested game that actually kills GPU's and costs me $300.

(If you think this is a random coincidence, that's fine by me, but then I dare you to spend an hour in the subterrane with this bug.)

Thanks for never fixing this by the way, I always knew about it before, and even tried to avoid it in the past, but yeah, good effort on not doing anything about this.

Would the community please get new PC's and crank up the details so people actually become aware of this mess? I honestly don't know how much it played into killing off my graphics card, but if it were fixed I'd at the very least know for sure that my card was defective.

[Vordax]

The stuttering goes away if you turn off environment stencil shadows.

If your card is fried due to a bug, then the bug would be the fault of the video driver not DDO.

Vordax

[Delt]

Lol...funny stuff. Not the hardware problems, but your very technical investigation and report...

My PC doesn't have this issue in the sub, I run max everything. Maybe my 570 is a MAGIC videocard...!

[Matuse]

I turned off stencil shadows, and it does nothing in the SubT or the Cursed Crypt.

Rebooting the client after entering the SubT works, but it doesn't work in Cursed. I really can't stand that quest with the lag hitch every 10 seconds. It's incredibly frustrating.

[Vordax]

I turned off stencil shadows, and it does nothing in the SubT or the Cursed Crypt.

Rebooting the client after entering the SubT works, but it doesn't work in Cursed. I really can't stand that quest with the lag hitch every 10 seconds. It's incredibly frustrating.

There is another shadow option that you could try turning down. Don't remember the option title, but its near the stencil shadow one.

Vordax

[Lithic]

There is another shadow option that you could try turning down. Don't remember the option title, but its near the stencil shadow one.

Vordax

Environmental stencil shadows. Unchecked solved all my subterrane and shadowcrypt issues. I run everything else on and maxed, and honestly couldn't tell the difference between ESS on and off.

[Ryan220]

Ive not had issues in the Sub on my laptop with everything mostly max'd (using a i7 & GTX 670) but thats not to say no issues exist......its like the lag issue - personally i have no probs with lag either but its still an issue for many.........hope you get your pc sorted soon

[lhidda]

which graphics card did you use?

[psi0nix]

GTX 580 here, another "magic" card that has no problem in the sub on max (stencils off) - and even with them on it just has frame rate issues.

From a technical viewpoint, there is nothing in the "code" that can destroy your video card, if the card dies due to "working hard" then it is really the fault of the card manufacturer (unless you have overclocked it etc).

If a card is pushed beyond it's limits by a particular game, ie, it overheats etc, then it will auto-shutdown, I think most Nvidia cards will switch off at about the 120 degree mark, and really if it gets that hot then there is a hardware / cooling solution issue that would have led to the cards death anyway.

It's very easy to blame turbine, and your post makes it clear you don't have a great deal of "tech" know how, so I would suggest if you don't believe the posts here then do some reading on what code can and cannot do to your hardware.

If the cards runs ok in windows / movies but gets colour glitches and or crashes in game it's usually because the "3D" part of your card has become faulty, there are 2 separate "areas" (to keep it simple) , one does 2d one does 3d and it is possible if not rare for just one to have a major problem (hardware).

[Meetch1972]

NVidia or ATI?

Here's a tasty link from an older NVidia driver....

http://www.nsaneforums.com/topic/41574-nvidia-19675-drivers-kills-cards/

Basically, a bug caused it not to bother spinning the fan under certain conditions... leading to fried cards. I guess it could happen with ATI, but I haven't checked.

If it's not the driver, then probably a genuine hardware fault. Take it back - and if you have never overclocked it you should get a refund or exchange with very few questions asked.

[yawumpus]

Furmark can damage cards made within a year or so of its release (later cards would detect it and slow down), especially if overclocked.

More likely your fan is either broken or choked with dust. It could be the wrong driver (see above), but however much work a card has to do in the Subterrane is unlikely to match furmark close enough to damage a card. Also, overclocking a card that can survive everywhere else in the game doesn't mean it can survive Subterrrane (but I would expect a less dramatic crash).

[Truga]

Environmental stencil shadows. Unchecked solved all my subterrane and shadowcrypt issues. I run everything else on and maxed, and honestly couldn't tell the difference between ESS on and off.

Yep, this. I don't have problems in the sub, but in shadow crypt, I just turn ESS off.

OP: Do note that it's Environment Stencil Shadows, not just stencil shadows. You need to turn ESS off, otherwise there is no difference in my experience, even though ESS goes gray if you turn stencil shadows off.

As for something frying your card: Software cannot do this to hardware (unless said software is the driver not working properly), and if it did happen, it'd happen sooner or later. Try blowing the dust out of the card, it helped me when NWN2 was running like ****.

[flynnjsw]

Would the community please get new PC's and crank up the details so people actually become aware of this mess?.

This here is my favorite, as if the entire rest of the world had crappier computers than you. Amusing.

[Infant]

So you had hardware/software problems in SubT and now blame Turbine for damaging your graphics card?

I mean, the bug can be annoying and is very old (though turning of the stencil shadows option helped me), but Turbine damaged your card? Really?

Infant

[BruceTheHoon]

My first guess would be, that Your GC is overheating. This is, believe it or not, a seasonal occurrence, since people tend to air the rooms less in the winter - congregating dust and now the temperatures are gradually rising.
My other guess would be, that Your GC is no longer properly plugged in. This can also be an indirect consequence of overheating.

Things You may want to try before even considering of buying a new one:
* Clean the card & computer. I usually carefully vacuum clean it with a hous vacuum cleaner. By my experience, removing the dust can improve performance by up to 15%.
* Remove the card, clean the contacts and insert the card back in.
* Update Your GC drivers, if they aren't already up to date.

[wez]

The stuttering goes away if you turn off environment stencil shadows.

If your card is fried due to a bug, then the bug would be the fault of the video driver not DDO.

Vordax
this works for me ^
i have a intel i5 2500k
8 gig ram and gtx470
i still get the stuttering something like every 3-4 seconds with stencil shadows switched on in sub-t
edit: it happend on my old system, and was told it happens to pc's that cant handle graphics up full, but how can mine not handle full settings now?

[CR-Shadowborn]

I run an AMD Phenom quad core with a NVIDIA GeForce 210 and run the game at max for everything and have no issues and very little lag unless someone else in the house is logging onto DDO and that only lasts until they are loaded in.
So i would agree with the posts telling you that your video card/drivers are bad and the game did not cause this problem it just revealed it.

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

A question no-one has asked yet : Which OS ?

Directx 9 or 10/11 ?

[DeafeningWhisper]

I was in a raid group and wanted to keep up so I kept playing, haphazardly. 10 minutes later, I got a blue screen and had to restart PC.

Unless there was someone from Turbine twisting your arm to keep playing once you saw a problem with your PC I don't see how it's their fault...

[Cyndrome]

So unless somebody can prove to me that the subterrane lighting glitch did NOT put my GPU into overdrive, causing it to malfunction, then that means that CONGRATULATIONS, Turbine, you now officially have a King Bug on your bug-infested game that actually kills GPU's and costs me $300.



I love reading TD's posts they give me such wonderful material to give to my 12 year old son for his logic lessons.

[Missing_Minds]

Back in the day, sure DDO was known as a killer because it did run cards very hot due to what they were doing, but nothing out of the ordinary for a game. These days other games run my card hotter than DDO does.

So no. If your card died, you didn't maintain it properly or your card itself was faulty. Heck, I don't expect nVidia's to last more than 2 years any more given past experiences also. I do hope that the 400 and higher series finally resolved those issues, but I'm not spending money to find out.

[Chai]

I play on a video editing machine that renders true HD video in better than real time, and still saw the "freeze-framing" issue until I turned the stencil shadow effects off. No more stop and go in shadow crypt and no more lag in the sub.

As far as spending an hour in the sub with this bug - I run slayer groups in there like once a week to farm different chests, as well as run hound and vod often enough.

The only "proof" needed as it were is the fact that while just about everyone complains about lag in there, youre the first person Ive heard about frying a GPU video card in that zone, where the problem is more than 3 years old. I see this all the time with users, where we dont want to admit that something could possibly be a system level issue. Ive even been piled on and trolled out of a thread where I was able to fix issues others were complaining about for the same reason - people do not want to admit the issue they are experiencing is a system level issue, and make every effort blaming something outside of their local set up.

[Missing_Minds]

people do not want to admit the issue they are experiencing is a system level issue, and make every effort blaming something outside of their local set up.
Micro$oft screw something up and/or prebaked images are shoddy? Lies!

[Truga]

I play on a video editing machine that renders true HD video in better than real time, and still saw the "freeze-framing" issue until I turned the stencil shadow effects off. No more stop and go in shadow crypt and no more lag in the sub.

Am I the only person who gets no lag in the sub with stencils on? I do get the stop-frames it in shadow crypt, but sub runs smooth as grease. I remember a slight stutter (same stop-frames symptom as in shadow crypt, just shorter) a couple years back there on my old 4000 series radeon, but even that went away after a random graphics driver update, and I'm pretty sure I haven't changed any settings ever.

I also remember when I was in shadow crypt for the first time it ran fine, but some months later the freezing was there. And this was all after F2P, so not too long ago...

[Cyndrome]

Am I the only person who gets no lag in the sub with stencils on? I do get the stop-frames it in shadow crypt, but sub runs smooth as grease. I remember a slight stutter (same stop-frames symptom as in shadow crypt, just shorter) a couple years back there on my old 4000 series radeon, but even that went away after a random graphics driver update, and I'm pretty sure I haven't changed any settings ever.

I also remember when I was in shadow crypt for the first time it ran fine, but some months later the freezing was there. And this was all after F2P, so not too long ago...

I got the opposite. Shadow Crypt without a hitch for my first few toons and the 6th or 7th time in the the Sub it was horrible. Stencil shadows always off since that time anytime I jump into the sub.

[Ugumagre]

TD, lrn2bldPuters!!!

[Truga]

I got the opposite. Shadow Crypt without a hitch for my first few toons and the 6th or 7th time in the the Sub it was horrible. Stencil shadows always off since that time anytime I jump into the sub.

Yep. It used to be cool with everything maxed out. Both sub and shadow crypt. Sub started stuttering for me at one point, but then also just as unexpectedly stopped.

I still step into both with areas with ESS enabled, hoping something might have fixed the glitch, or fearing something brought it back when going into sub. Shadow crypt has been rather nasty a couple weeks back. No stutter for the first 30 or so seconds. I go "oh cool, that's some progress". Then freeze. Luckily it hasn't returned to sub yet for me.

[Zyerz]

So basically I entered subterrane this morning, while all my graphical options were maxed out. For the entire time I was in there, the game kept freeze framing constantly. (No, not low performance. This was a genuine shadow bug, the same as Necro II crypt.)

I was in a raid group and wanted to keep up so I kept playing, haphazardly.
10 minutes later, I got a blue screen and had to restart PC. Since then, my framerate in games has taken a huge hit, and just 30 minutes ago, I crashed again, playing Trine 2, with my screen turning into a rainbow splurge, requiring a hard reset.


So unless somebody can prove to me that the subterrane lighting glitch did NOT put my GPU into overdrive, causing it to malfunction, then that means that CONGRATULATIONS, Turbine, you now officially have a King Bug on your bug-infested game that actually kills GPU's and costs me $300.

(If you think this is a random coincidence, that's fine by me, but then I dare you to spend an hour in the subterrane with this bug.)

Thanks for never fixing this by the way, I always knew about it before, and even tried to avoid it in the past, but yeah, good effort on not doing anything about this.

Would the community please get new PC's and crank up the details so people actually become aware of this mess? I honestly don't know how much it played into killing off my graphics card, but if it were fixed I'd at the very least know for sure that my card was defective.


I have the same issue in Subterrane, but ONLY on the House J subterrane. The Central Sub and House D sub is alright. Also on Shadowcrypt. I simply turn off the shadow options (quite ironically I might say) and it works well again. It's easy to blame Turbine for problems that are most likely caused by your own computer (The little graphics lagg in Sub and Shadow crypt I sympathize with, because a lot of people experience it as well). It seems your computer might be overheating the graphics card, thus causing crashes and the famed blue screen of death. I got the blue screen the other day because I left my laptop on my pillow and it overheated. Or at least thats what I assume occured. Anyways, it would help if you gave us more info. What computer do you have? What OS? What graphics card do you have? Do you have all your drivers updated?

You might consider getting a vaccum cleaner and sucking out any dust that might have accumulated. That sometimes causes problems. Also, getting an external fan might not be a bad idea.

[hiryuu42]

Heat is a lead suspect. Power supply is another frequent cause. Plug that precious $300 card into a $10 "1000 Watt" power supply and watch the voltage sag as the card ramps up, causing glitches and memory corruption everywhere.

[danotmano1998]

So unless somebody can prove to me that the subterrane lighting glitch did NOT put my GPU into overdrive, causing it to malfunction, then that means that CONGRATULATIONS, Turbine, you now officially have a King Bug on your bug-infested game that actually kills GPU's and costs me $300.

(If you think this is a random coincidence, that's fine by me, but then I dare you to spend an hour in the subterrane with this bug.)


I've spent long periods of time in the Sub-T with no issues..

Regardless, machines do break. Some are faulty, some have issues. While I can understand your anger, I don't think Turbine is the one to yell at here.

[MrkGrismer]

So basically I entered subterrane this morning, while all my graphical options were maxed out. For the entire time I was in there, the game kept freeze framing constantly. (No, not low performance. This was a genuine shadow bug, the same as Necro II crypt.)

I was in a raid group and wanted to keep up so I kept playing, haphazardly.
10 minutes later, I got a blue screen and had to restart PC. Since then, my framerate in games has taken a huge hit, and just 30 minutes ago, I crashed again, playing Trine 2, with my screen turning into a rainbow splurge, requiring a hard reset.


So unless somebody can prove to me that the subterrane lighting glitch did NOT put my GPU into overdrive, causing it to malfunction, then that means that CONGRATULATIONS, Turbine, you now officially have a King Bug on your bug-infested game that actually kills GPU's and costs me $300.

(If you think this is a random coincidence, that's fine by me, but then I dare you to spend an hour in the subterrane with this bug.)

Thanks for never fixing this by the way, I always knew about it before, and even tried to avoid it in the past, but yeah, good effort on not doing anything about this.

Would the community please get new PC's and crank up the details so people actually become aware of this mess? I honestly don't know how much it played into killing off my graphics card, but if it were fixed I'd at the very least know for sure that my card was defective.

No offense meant but if the Check Engine light in your car comes on and starts blinking but you continue to drive it in order to go to the movies you can't really blame the movie for your car seizing up.

I can't address the Subter bug personally, I don't go in there at all. Probably because I pretty just solo these days.

[learst]

Any way, my point is whatever it is that caused my card to die, it seems pretty obvious to me that this bug is what triggered it.

Correlation =/= causation.

If your car breaks down in the middle of the road on a hot day, do you blame the sun? :D

[rokes]

OP, DDO did not break your graphics card.

Sincerely, everyone who knows something about computers.

[DeafeningWhisper]

-Someone disagrees with you.
-EPIC TROLL, MENACE TO SOCIETY.

Any way, my point is whatever it is that caused my card to die, it seems pretty obvious to me that this bug is what triggered it.

Yes, your empirical evidence after a long and exhaustive research is irrefutable, add the fact that Turbine forced you into playing the game while you had problems clearly shows they should pay you for a new computer.

[HungarianRhapsody]

Since so many people do have problems with the Environmental Shadow Stencils, could Turbine make the new default "off" for new installs for that feature?

People can still turn it on if they want to.

[Eladiun]

Pretty sure I was the first person to confirm and post about the Environment stencil shadow bug about 3 years ago now. not sure why nothing has ever been done about it.



^ This. 1000x this.

Why do people need to tune down a 6 year old MMO running on the latest hardware?

Simple answer... things never get fixed and new bugs just get piled on but we have vanity pets and armor kits to sell in the store so all is well.

[HungarianRhapsody]

Yes, your empirical evidence after a long and exhaustive research is irrefutable, add the fact that Turbine forced you into playing the game while you had problems clearly shows they should pay you for a new computer.

I don't believe that he has asked that Turbine pay for his computer. He said that they are responsible for the damage to his computer, but he hasn't asked for them to pay him anything.

I think that Turbine is probably partially responsible for a few divorces as well, but the fact that they're partially responsible for those divorces doesn't mean that they will have to/should have to pay for any of those divorces.

[TekkenDevil]

Yes, your empirical evidence after a long and exhaustive research is irrefutable, add the fact that Turbine forced you into playing the game while you had problems clearly shows they should pay you for a new computer.

I paid for this content.
I'm entitled to playing it without it setting my house on fire.

If you dropkick an old man with fragile bones on the street, is it the old man's fault for being out on the street with his fragile bones, or should you maybe stop drop kicking people? In this analogy, my GPU was the old man, and I'm pretty sure the bug is the person going around handing out drop kicks to every computer.

If there's a slightest amount of possibility that this bug improperly taxes hardware the way it never should, then yeah, Turbine's got some owing up to do. What if your PC is fine after every one of you gets this issue, except, little would you know, it shaves off months, or an entire year of your GPU's lifetime?

This should be investigated at the very LEAST. Turbine is solely responsible for making 100% sure they won't cause damage in their customers' PC. Doubt they would want to leave even a semblence of a crumb that would lead to a lawsuit.

[DeafeningWhisper]

I paid for this content.
I'm entitled to playing it without it setting my house on fire.

Yes, but when the first few sparks show up you might wanna stop playing rather then continue until the house burns down and then blame Turbine.

[Tholar]

I7 2600k unlocked
dual GTX570
8Gb 2000MHz ram
ASUS motherboard
overclocked to 3.6GHz
Liquid cooled in a HAF-X case with 6 fans

I have the skip lag in the sub. I have learned to ignore it, it goes away in the raids.

[DeafeningWhisper]

If you dropkick an old man with fragile bones on the street, is it the old man's fault for being out on the street with his fragile bones, or should you maybe stop drop kicking people?

You realise that in that example, if applied to your situation, you are the guy doing the drop kick right?

[Missing_Minds]

I paid for this content.
I'm entitled to playing it without it setting my house on fire.

That would be taking the issue up with your computer parts manufactures then for creating products that could fail so catastrophically, not a game company.

[TekkenDevil]

You realise that in that example, if applied to your situation, you are the guy doing the drop kick right?

No, I'm the old man that just wants to reach his destination and tries to continue while getting dropkicked.

[hecate355]

Like already stated above, turbine may be responsible for choppy performance(not only them) in subterrane, but its virtually impossible that anything at that software 'layer' can even possibly cause death of your 3d card.

And those cards are made to take heavy beating with built in safety mechanisms. As long as cooling and power supply is adequate, you can torture em whatever way you feel like.

[TekkenDevil]

That would be taking the issue up with your computer parts manufactures then for creating products that could fail so catastrophically, not a game company.

Yet it's software that controls the hardware. Not saying that ATI isn't at fault here, but at least that fault comes from a production malfunction which is rather hard to avoid without turning your products completely hand made.

Turbine on the other hand, would just have to stop being so lazy about bug fixing, and they'd eliminate any doubt of not having responsibility.


Like already stated above, turbine may be responsible for choppy performance(but not only them) in subterrane, but its virtually impossible that anything at that software 'layer' can even possibly cause death of your 3d card.

And those cards are made to take heavy beating with built in safety mechanisms. As long as cooling and power supply is adequate, you can torture em whatever way you feel like.

A lot of cards have inadequate safety mechanics. There have often been games with bugs that turn GPU's into overdrive, causing them to overheat, like StarCraft 2 and Trine 2.

[learst]

I paid for this content.
I'm entitled to playing it without it setting my house on fire.

If you dropkick an old man with fragile bones on the street, is it the old man's fault for being out on the street with his fragile bones, or should you maybe stop drop kicking people? In this analogy, my GPU was the old man, and I'm pretty sure the bug is the person going around handing out drop kicks to every computer.


Unless the old man is begging you to drop kick him (for whatever reason.. :D) and signed a EULA with you that everything is ok, then it's not your fault. :)

But seriously, I'm running DDO on a laptop (core 2 duo with NVDIA 6800 M GS), no highend graphics (default), and I've not experience any graphical glitches (shadows etc).

And no, Turbine is not "drop-kicking" every PC out there. Unless you define it as "stress", then please turn off your PC and not watch any video/movie/do anything at all, since if anything happens to your PC, you'll probably blame them.

[Captain_Wizbang]

GTX 780, I run with all shadows off anyways.

Sub T has had a lag issue, but not equipment killing type.

40 mbs connection & I run 130 + fps! (in fact my card out-clocks the game!)

It's something much bigger than an in-game issue.

[learst]

Turbine on the other hand, would just have to stop being so lazy about bug fixing, and they'd eliminate any doubt of not having responsibility.

In other words, back to playing MUD. No fancy graphics, no rendering, no calculations.

Very low chance of anything going wrong.

And if anything does, you'll probably still blame Turbine.

[Hendrik]

So basically I entered subterrane this morning, while all my graphical options were maxed out. For the entire time I was in there, the game kept freeze framing constantly. (No, not low performance. This was a genuine shadow bug, the same as Necro II crypt.)

I was in a raid group and wanted to keep up so I kept playing, haphazardly.
10 minutes later, I got a blue screen and had to restart PC. Since then, my framerate in games has taken a huge hit, and just 30 minutes ago, I crashed again, playing Trine 2, with my screen turning into a rainbow splurge, requiring a hard reset.


So unless somebody can prove to me that the subterrane lighting glitch did NOT put my GPU into overdrive, causing it to malfunction, then that means that CONGRATULATIONS, Turbine, you now officially have a King Bug on your bug-infested game that actually kills GPU's and costs me $300.

(If you think this is a random coincidence, that's fine by me, but then I dare you to spend an hour in the subterrane with this bug.)

Thanks for never fixing this by the way, I always knew about it before, and even tried to avoid it in the past, but yeah, good effort on not doing anything about this.

Would the community please get new PC's and crank up the details so people actually become aware of this mess? I honestly don't know how much it played into killing off my graphics card, but if it were fixed I'd at the very least know for sure that my card was defective.

Clearly you have thought this out well.

Bet your running Windows too. Ever stop and think that killed your graphics card?

Think about it...

/tinfoilhat

[Tholar]

In other words, back to playing MUD. No fancy graphics, no rendering, no calculations.

Very low chance of anything going wrong.

And if anything does, you'll probably still blame Turbine.

I miss playing MUD, even the stupid corpse retrieval.

[LordPiglet]

I paid for this content.
I'm entitled to playing it without it setting my house on fire.

If you dropkick an old man with fragile bones on the street, is it the old man's fault for being out on the street with his fragile bones, or should you maybe stop drop kicking people? In this analogy, my GPU was the old man, and I'm pretty sure the bug is the person going around handing out drop kicks to every computer.

If there's a slightest amount of possibility that this bug improperly taxes hardware the way it never should, then yeah, Turbine's got some owing up to do. What if your PC is fine after every one of you gets this issue, except, little would you know, it shaves off months, or an entire year of your GPU's lifetime?

This should be investigated at the very LEAST. Turbine is solely responsible for making 100% sure they won't cause damage in their customers' PC. Doubt they would want to leave even a semblence of a crumb that would lead to a lawsuit.

Actually, I'm pretty sure the bug is that the fail safes on your GPU (fan and shut down) failed to fire. Turbine doesn't exactly have a way to code for that. That's the driver and card manufacturer issue.

[LordPiglet]

No, I'm the old man that just wants to reach his destination and tries to continue while getting dropkicked.

I think more likely you're an old man crossing the street. There was a pot hole in the way, so you moved to the left and suddenly your walker fell apart. You're blaming the pot hole for being in the way instead of the bad walker.

[die]

i use too have this problem in the shadow crypt, i also use too crash some times going into the desert or orchard , but ever since i bought this new Alienware Aurora computer with these NVIDIA Geforce GTX 560 TI i runat aultra high all day and never have a problem . I love it
I love the high FPS https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/554374_430225150339879_100000571930906_1586230_830 726404_n.jpg Now in the market im in the low 200's and raids the mid too high 100's not sure why this is but most to all dungeons in the 300's

[DeafeningWhisper]

No, I'm the old man that just wants to reach his destination and tries to continue while getting dropkicked.

Nope, your computer is the old man and you're drop kicking him by playing the game at a higher resolution then it can handle, do you clean it? Do you have software to make sure the fan is working properly? Do you have anything to keep track of your video card temperature? My guess is no.

At no time is Turbine actually doing anything to put your laptop in harms way, you're the only one physically "doing" anything, so the fault lies with you and not making sure your laptop can handle the way you play the game.

[HungarianRhapsody]

Abused metaphors aside, it is kind of sad that this same bug has been around for more than 3 years without a fix.

[Chai]

This should be investigated at the very LEAST. Turbine is solely responsible for making 100% sure they won't cause damage in their customers' PC. Doubt they would want to leave even a semblence of a crumb that would lead to a lawsuit.

http://support.turbine.com/link/portal/24001/24001/Article/448/DDO-End-User-License-Agreement-EULA

Read parts 6 and 7.

Pwned.

[Chai]

Abused metaphors aside, it is kind of sad that this same bug has been around for more than 3 years without a fix.

Yeah it is pretty lame that people in Shadow Crypt and in the Sub all experience the same stuttering effect and have to turn off stencil shadows to work around the issue.

Odd that I have never noticed the difference after turning stencil shadows off -vs- leaving them on. I can see a clear difference in most other games, but unchecking that box in DDO didnt really change the display of the game, or it changed it so little it was not noticed.

Youre right that it should still be fixed though.

[Missing_Minds]

Yet it's software that controls the hardware. Not saying that ATI isn't at fault here, but at least that fault comes from a production malfunction which is rather hard to avoid without turning your products completely hand made.

I seriously doubt ATI is even at fault as most vendors license the chip from ATI or nVidia and then make their own daughter boards to put the chip on and sell it.

Now granted, in court, you'd probably include ATI as well as the manufacture of the card.

Now the ironic thing would be if you could prove that ATI (and by default) nVidia have a market practice such that they know that the process and design WILL in fact burn out the silicon withing X time frame such to keep consumers in a constant state of new part buying on a semi annual bases.
The problem in the proof of that is that there is much in the form of actual numbers related to good wafer and bad wafer, as well as chip making. So many 'error's get in the way you'll have a hard time. Good luck in your fight for the consumer. I have neither the energy nor monies to help you further than *golf clap*.

[Missing_Minds]

Actually, I'm pretty sure the bug is that the fail safes on your GPU (fan and shut down) failed to fire. Turbine doesn't exactly have a way to code for that. That's the driver and card manufacturer issue.

Turbine does not. *seen no fan first hand*

And it has been known for a long time that the fan algorithms were set too dam low to be worth a dam for keeping the GPU safe.

Consumers have had to take control of the GPU fan for years. This is not limited to DDO issues alone.

[Algreg]

Jin Kazama asures you a game by itself cannot wreck your hardware. Also, he demands you to stop making him look like a fool.

[Delt]

Now in the market im in the low 200's and raids the mid too high 100's not sure why this is but most to all dungeons in the 300's

No cliche shots at buying Alienware...but you might as well limit your FPS, no sense in needlessly taxing your card. Just saying.

Edit: And I get no stutter whatsoever in SubT. Not pretending it's a user issue though -- I've had the memory leak/crash from switching multiple toons through 3 seperate PC builds...for years. Still no Turbine fix. It's pathetic. But I don't blame Turbine for obvious hardware issues, just crappy coding :)

[cronusdeathspell]

@OP: As good as you are, you're only the second best troll I've seen.

[StarlancePanther]

I dont think it is Turbines fault per se... i would blame Delvarrion Iravati as it was his advice that sent you down there in the first place :p

I suggest you start a petition and get him exciled from the marketplace back to Korthos ;)

[hecate355]

I may be semi dark at in depth tech stuff, but wouldnt it reasonable to assume that there are plenty of faulty and about to fail cards running. A situation where anything can be 'last straw.' Im getting impression that many of the computer related hardware can give successful results even while being half borked.

What im saying is, maybe event that culminated with breakdown of graphic card only took place because the card wasnt 100% solid first place. Thus not being directly connected to Turbine.

I have first hand experience, probably not at 3d cards, more likely to be my motherboard/memory. All i know is that something is not quite right, yet it works fine 90% time.

Oddities only appear rarely(blue screens, odd messages about not finding graphical device to run game with and the fact that i never got my ram work error-free while in dual channel).

So here i am, with a computer that works just fine 90% time, yet completely fails in other occasions.

[t0r012]

10 minutes later, I got a blue screen and had to restart PC. Since then, my framerate in games has taken a huge hit, and just 30 minutes ago, I crashed again, playing Trine 2, with my screen turning into a rainbow splurge, requiring a hard reset.

this equals bad video RAM.

hate to tell you but your card is dying and it wasn't DDO that killed it it was simply use/bad chips. just happened to crop up as you were playing DDO.
had you been playing trine or portal2 or any 3d game rather than DDO this morning it would have toasted just the same.

[HGM-Chi]

I paid for this content.
I'm entitled to playing it without it setting my house on fire.

If you dropkick an old man with fragile bones on the street, is it the old man's fault for being out on the street with his fragile bones, or should you maybe stop drop kicking people? In this analogy, my GPU was the old man, and I'm pretty sure the bug is the person going around handing out drop kicks to every computer.

If there's a slightest amount of possibility that this bug improperly taxes hardware the way it never should, then yeah, Turbine's got some owing up to do. What if your PC is fine after every one of you gets this issue, except, little would you know, it shaves off months, or an entire year of your GPU's lifetime?

This should be investigated at the very LEAST. Turbine is solely responsible for making 100% sure they won't cause damage in their customers' PC. Doubt they would want to leave even a semblence of a crumb that would lead to a lawsuit.

While I can sympathize with the frustration of hardware failure and having to replace expensive computer components, I really think you should stop and think things through a bit before you post anymore. You are really making yourself look less than intelligent here. Far, far less.

If you're watching a Bluray movie at home, and your TV dies while you're watching it do you blame the company that produced the movie? If you're listening to a CD on your stereo and you blow a speaker, do you blame it on the company that made the CD?

In your case, given that DDO is almost certainly not using instruction sets that specifically target any given video card, but using DirectX to work through you'd be better off blaming Microsoft. Even still, you wouldn't look particularly bright trying that either.


This should be investigated at the very LEAST. Turbine is solely responsible for making 100% sure they won't cause damage in their customers' PC. Doubt they would want to leave even a semblence of a crumb that would lead to a lawsuit.

No, it isn't. And I'm reasonably certain Turbine is pretty safe from lawsuit with regards to this.

Please, seriously, for the love of puppies and rainbows, just stop and think it through.

[Krell]

Actually, I'm pretty sure the bug is that the fail safes on your GPU (fan and shut down) failed to fire. Turbine doesn't exactly have a way to code for that. That's the driver and card manufacturer issue.

I agree. That is why software doesn't control hardware directly and has to negotiate through your driver and operating system.

Your card should shut down when it gets too hot to avoid permanent damage. That includes heat from use, such as a game, in combination with heat from environment, such as room temperature, case ventilation, and dust buildup.

You are free to blame anyone, but I think you would have a very hard time with any effort for compensation.

Personally I always buy cards from manufacturers with a good warranty. For example EVGA generally comes with a 3 year warranty with options to extend it. That way you don't need to play the blame game and can just get a new one, minus some down time.

[squishwizzy]

So unless somebody can prove to me that the subterrane lighting glitch did NOT put my GPU into overdrive, causing it to malfunction, then that means that CONGRATULATIONS, Turbine, you now officially have a King Bug on your bug-infested game that actually kills GPU's and costs me $300.


I've got 20 years of software development experience on PCs. From high lvl languages to assembly code. There is no code that Trubine can write on a PC that will take out a processor, graphical or otherwise. Period.

You can overheat a processor. Too much graphics being processed too fast in any given timeframe can cause a processor meltdown. However, that's not a software glitch. That's called a crappy hardware design. Period.

There is a reason why they have heatsinks (OK), fans (better) and even fluid-cooled devices on high-end processors. When you run devices in the gigahertz, it releases radiation that is similar to a microwave oven, except at lower voltages. That builds up on the chip as heat, which has to be dissapated. Most processors and supporting circuitry have current sensors and/or heat sensors to either shut off the processor, slow it down, or whatnot. However, if that stuff doesn't work, the end result is a fried processor.

This has been a problem with PC processors since the almighty 386 166 MHz processor came out nearly two decades ago.

And if the card manufacturer releases a card that can be fried by running a game, that's the fault of the engineers that designed the thing, and not the people who wrote software for it. They set the operational tolerences too low for the potential processing load.

Consequently, the manufarcturer of the card is the one who pays to have the drivers developed for the card, and is the one who releases them for distribution. The people who make the operating system do not, in general, do this. it requires extensive knowledge of the chipset, various IO ports going in and out of the card, and so on. The driver needs to conform to the standard of the operating system, and the game software conforms to the standards made by the manufacturer of the operating system as well. There is no "direct link" from the software to the hardware IO. They generally use a platform like DirectX for their video calls...which has to run through protected mode calls established by the operating system. Nonetheless, the code of the graphics engine for DDO is pretty much isolated from the actual hardware of the card by several layers of software over which they have no control.

So, you can go scream at Microsoft if you'd like. I don't think you'll get very far.

Consequently, if your card has a heatsink on it - which is a big metal block with fins or spikes coming off of it - that is used to dissapate heat. The assumption is that the more surface area on this piece of metal (attached to the processor by a thermal conductor) the more heat gets radiated off of the chip. That works real well until you get dust or stuff caught in the fins, or if you don't have enough airflow in the case of the PC. Then heat builds up, and it may potentially destroy your graphics chip. Which is why many high-end cards use fans. But fans have moving parts, and virtually anything with moving parts wears out. Heat sensors in the circuitry are also not foolproof, and if they go bad at any point, you've got a boat anchor for a PC.

This is called "reality." Also things like friction, heat, and oxidation are delegated to this obscure subject known as "physics."

So, you can go scream at the manufacturer of the video card if you'd like. Hopefully, the thing is under warrenty. If not...well...too bad for you.

But don't scream at the DDO devs, or Turbine. There is no "king bug" they've "created."

[Beethoven]

Turbine is solely responsible for making 100% sure they won't cause damage in their customers' PC. Doubt they would want to leave even a semblence of a crumb that would lead to a lawsuit.

Please, let me know how that lawsuit works out for you. I keep my fingers crossed because if you win I never again need to bring my car in for maintenance.

You manage to create a legal precedence establishing it is not my responsibility to maintain my hardware/vehicle nor the manufacturers (since product malfunctions happen), but solely the responsibility of, say, the US government to build streets that will not make my car explode. I simply sue them for building streets that damaged my (old) car with putting undo stress on it by, say, going up an incline instead of only going downhill all the time.

Seriously, Turbine does not leave a semblance of a crumb that its their fault. The sub exists since 3 years; every day a large amount of users plays that content which likely amounts to hundreds of thousands of pieces of circumstantial evidence its perfectly safe. Not that they need to. Your graphics card is not supposed to self destruct. It malfunctioned. Turbine did not produce the card. It's really simple as that.

Turbine's code cannot cause hardware defects that easily. All bad code would do is make the OS shut down their software (DDO client) before it can cause damage or shut down the entire computer to prevent hardware damage. It'd be extremely damaging for them (in terms of reputation and revenue). However, anything beyond that is caused by faulty hardware, which Turbine did not produce and thus is not their responsibility. The sole exception to this would be if you could proof that Turbine deliberately coded a virus to infiltrate your machine, disable its security protocols, shut down your cooling system and thus damage your hardware.

[squishwizzy]

By the way, back in the day when the more cutting-edge Intel 386 cpus came out (that broke the 100MHz ceiling), you couldn't turn them on without PC cover on. Most of them were sporting heatsinks, and their heat dissapation requited that there be a certain amount of airflow over the fins of the heatsink to keep the processor from burning out.

If you took off the case of one of those PCs, you were lucky if the thermal shutdown senors kicked in before the processor turned into a smoldering gob of silicon embedded in a ceramic shell.

That's about the time when CPU fans started to emerge in the technology world. And that was way back in the 1990s.

Consequently, I didn't see anyone wanting renumeration from Microsoft because the same version of DOS that ran on their 386 66MHz PC had a "king bug' that destroyed their brand-new, bleeding-edge PC when the cover came off...

[squishwizzy]

Sorry, my bad: the 386 didn't have a 166 MHz offering. It was a Pentium.

Yes, it was a long time ago...relatively speaking...

[Algreg]

So unless somebody can prove to me that the subterrane lighting glitch did NOT put my GPU into overdrive, causing it to malfunction, then that means that CONGRATULATIONS, Turbine, you now officially have a King Bug on your bug-infested game that actually kills GPU's and costs me $300.

Holy Mother, I didn´t even notice that one - I have rarely seen a more fundamental misconception about how law works (or philosophy/critical thinking for that matter).

[HackSlashKill]

Okay, now... what about if, and this is a big if here so bare with me, and I don't pretent to be an expert or a lawyer or know the law (though I have had a few encounters with law enforcement people) but let's just say that during the proposed drop kicking, the old man in question happens to fart and accidently sharts himself.(for those not knowing what a shart is, it is a combination of fart and sh@#ing ones self) So the old man sharts himself, who would be at blame here and should be held responsible??? The finger could be pointed at the person drop kicking the old man because he has voluntarily caused the old man to have discomfort in the seating area, tho we are presuming that the drop kicking did occur in that spot (OP doesn't specify where and what body part took place) So we presume the bum had been kicked and caused the old man to shart himself. Cased closed right???? WRONG. It could be found that the old man had in fact eaten 3 beef burritos at lunch (though nowadays, it can be questionable if you can call that beef and not just some form of cat). The drop kicking had only help influence the soon and waiting accident of sharting which would have normally occured anyways because the individual after all, had eaten three beef burritos.

So based on the above example, Turbine should be found not guilty of any wrong doing and not responsible for any damages. Rusty, bring on the litigants for our next session....

DUN DUN DUN.....ttsst tstst ..... DUN DUN DUN DUN

The following will be the case of Old man Vs Taco Bell Restaurants

[Verzra]

This should be investigated at the very LEAST. Turbine is solely responsible for making 100% sure they won't cause damage in their customers' PC. Doubt they would want to leave even a semblence of a crumb that would lead to a lawsuit.

If software can break hardware that is still a hardware problem.

-Verzra

[Infant]

I paid for this content.
I'm entitled to playing it without it setting my house on fire.

If you dropkick an old man with fragile bones on the street, is it the old man's fault for being out on the street with his fragile bones, or should you maybe stop drop kicking people? In this analogy, my GPU was the old man, and I'm pretty sure the bug is the person going around handing out drop kicks to every computer.

If there's a slightest amount of possibility that this bug improperly taxes hardware the way it never should, then yeah, Turbine's got some owing up to do. What if your PC is fine after every one of you gets this issue, except, little would you know, it shaves off months, or an entire year of your GPU's lifetime?

This should be investigated at the very LEAST. Turbine is solely responsible for making 100% sure they won't cause damage in their customers' PC. Doubt they would want to leave even a semblence of a crumb that would lead to a lawsuit.
This forums never stop to amaze me. This is the highest class, golden league... you know, Dispel-Snootch-Daggertooth style. Really good stuff.

Infant

P.S.: Of course the bug should be fixed!

[Ugumagre]

I paid for this content.
I'm entitled to playing it without it setting my house on fire.

If you dropkick an old man with fragile bones on the street, is it the old man's fault for being out on the street with his fragile bones, or should you maybe stop drop kicking people? In this analogy, my GPU was the old man, and I'm pretty sure the bug is the person going around handing out drop kicks to every computer.

If there's a slightest amount of possibility that this bug improperly taxes hardware the way it never should, then yeah, Turbine's got some owing up to do. What if your PC is fine after every one of you gets this issue, except, little would you know, it shaves off months, or an entire year of your GPU's lifetime?

This should be investigated at the very LEAST. Turbine is solely responsible for making 100% sure they won't cause damage in their customers' PC. Doubt they would want to leave even a semblence of a crumb that would lead to a lawsuit.

Tekken, do you think it is possible you agreed to this here?:

IN NO CASE SHALL THE TURBINE PARTIES BE LIABLE FOR ANY SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL, INDIRECT, PUNITIVE OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES IN ANY WAY ARISING OUT OF OR RELATING TO YOUR USE OF THE GAME OR YOUR INTERACTIONS WITH ANY OF THE TURBINE PARTIES OR ANY THIRD PARTY, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, LOSS OF PROFITS, DATA, GAME PLAY, IN-GAME ITEMS OR CHARACTERS, EVEN IF TURBINE HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH LOSSES OR DAMAGES, UNLESS SUCH LIABILITY IS LEGALLY INCAPABLE OF SUCH LIMITATION UNDER APPLICABLE LAW.
BECAUSE SOME STATES OR JURISDICTIONS DO NOT ALLOW CERTAIN DISCLAIMERS, EXCLUSIONS OR LIMITATIONS (SUCH AS LIMITATIONS OF LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL DAMAGES), IN SUCH STATES OR JURISDICTIONS, YOUR RIGHTS AND REMEDIES AND THE LIABILITY OF THE TURBINE PARTIES SHALL BE LIMITED TO THE FULLEST EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW.

[Truga]

A lot of cards have inadequate safety mechanics. There have often been games with bugs that turn GPU's into overdrive, causing them to overheat, like StarCraft 2 and Trine 2.

How is that the game's problem? If you buy hardware that is faulty, that's entirely your problem. Both Trine and Trine 2 run my gpus hot, much hotter than anything in DDO, but I've never seen anything as much as a glitch.

The entire problem is your hardware. "Guys guys, this game is actually optimised and uses the entire GPU like it should, and now it melted because I haven't dusted my computer in 3 years".

Go and dust your computer already and it'll work fine again.

Ed: And no, no ATi card I've had in the past had inadequate safety mechanisms. All start running slower when they heat up, and all cause a blue screen or a freeze when they heat up to the point of no return, thus shutting themselves off so they don't bork. I've even overzealously overclocked all that I had on purpose to find out what'd happen. Guess what, nothing does happen other than artifacts starting showing up and eventually the computer hanging. After a reboot it's all fine again.

[hecate355]

And when some one is on ground, lets hit him few more times will we?

Congratulations of finding your elusive 'idiot of the week.' Im sure it somehow made you feel better.

I think i have seen such approach before, back in the lower grade school, but carry on. I may not always be the nicest guy in town, but this is kind of disgusting.

EDIT: At the slim chance of whole thing being prank and taken as joke, feel free to ignore what i wrote.

[Algreg]

And when some one is on ground, lets hit him few more times will we?

Congratulations of finding your elusive 'idiot of the week.' Im sure it somehow made you feel better.

I think i have seen such approach before, back in the lower grade school, but carry on. I may not always be the nicest guy in town, but this is kind of disgusting.

EDIT: At the slim chance of whole thing being prank and taken as joke, feel free to ignore what i wrote.

Sorry, if this had just been someone being misinformed and making a mistake and posting about it - yes, you would be right. But to come here and utter ridiculous wild accusations, even demanding financial compensation of the accused and being totally unredeemable about it - nah, that actually calls for a castigation.

[hecate355]

Sorry, if this had just been someone being misinformed and making a mistake and posting about it - yes, you would be right. But to come here and utter ridiculous wild accusations, even demanding financial compensation of the accused and being totally unredeemable about it - nah, that actually calls for a castigation.

Yes i understand that. Everything i wrote still stands tho and it still very much reminds me bullying. I wasnt commenting about OP, rather about how some respond to it.

I personally just dont find it good taste, even if the ground for such reaction is valid. And dont take my post as something solely based on this thread. You could call it 'inspired by' this thread.

It reminded me stuff somewhere else at some other time, the core is same. And we cant deny that people DO act that way.

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

Sorry, my bad: the 386 didn't have a 166 MHz offering. It was a Pentium.

Yes, it was a long time ago...relatively speaking...

Yeah, I already wondered ... But thanks for that look into the past. I remember still some things from my "gaming career" in the 90s, and I was always interested in how things actually work.


By the way, investigation on the side of Turbine would be politeness, imho. But it wouldn't be required. Every one is responsible for his/her own PC, imho.

[Algreg]

Yes i understand that. Everything i wrote still stands tho and it still very much reminds me bullying. I wasnt commenting about OP, rather about how some respond to it.

I personally just dont find it good taste, even if the ground for such reaction is valid. And dont take my post as something solely based on this thread. You could call it 'inspired by' this thread.

It reminded me stuff somewhere else at some other time, the core is same. And we cant deny that people DO act that way.

hm, I can see your point, but i don´t really agree. Bullying is really a disgusting thing. But TD, just like us, is not a real personality here, we do not even know our identities in game. So it is easy to shrug off such "attacks" and, unlike bullying where you are usually unable to escape the situation (work, school) it is quite easy to do so here. Do not open the thread and do not start topics that are guaranteed to bring the hammer down upon you.

[Beethoven]

Yes i understand that. Everything i wrote still stands tho and it still very much reminds me bullying.

You do realize that the OP is the one who tried round up a bunch of "cyberbullies" to bully a relative helpless victim (helpless in the regard that Turbine employees, unlike other posters, cannot respond however they like)? The OP isn't exactly pulling punches in his accusations either. The OP was the one who posted a public attack on a forum were he knew hundreds of people will read and possibly respond to it.

There must be a point were people have the right to respond freely in a public discussion. The OP would have merely posted how his GC died, he likely found sympathy. He opted to insult and demean other people and in return posters insulted and demeaned his post. So, no I don't agree that people here need to be especially considerate about his feelings. You cannot go to off-topic and bash Americans either and then try hide behind anti-cyberbullying laws to keep Americans from responding in kind to your slander.

That being said, it's possible take it too far, but the people actually attacking the OP as person are rather few. Most attack his post/opinion. I'd agree with you if people would take it so far to dig up pictures alleging they resemble an OP, mock how fat/ugly/small (s)he is, begin to stalk the person to defame his/her facebook pages, e-mail his/her co-workers and employer and generally try make all aspects of his/her life miserable but that's not happening here. All that is happening here is some (numerous) folks saying "you are wrong and I think your allegations are rather silly", some do so in less polite ways but that still does not constitute bullying, merely an OP held responsible for his own words.

[HungarianRhapsody]

Sorry, if this had just been someone being misinformed and making a mistake and posting about it - yes, you would be right. But to come here and utter ridiculous wild accusations, even demanding financial compensation of the accused and being totally unredeemable about it - nah, that actually calls for a castigation.

When did that happen? I missed that post.

[HungarianRhapsody]

My thoughts on this thread:

OP is being ridiculous and over the top in his rhetoric, but he is absolutely right in his assertion that Turbine put out some terrible code that causes serious problems for a bunch of video cards.

The people who are pointing out that the OP is being ridiculous and over the top in his rhetoric are correct, but everyone knew that he was being ridiculous and over the top in his rhetoric, so they aren't really pointing out anything new. It's still fun to read some of those posts, however. :)

The people who are defending Turbine (as opposed to simply mocking the OP) are equally ridiculous because there is no reasonable defense for a code problem of this magnitude staying around for this long without any fix. Turbine could even make the workaround (disable the stencil shadows) the new default, but they have chosen to not do that either. Instead, they're satisfied with things working the way that they do now even though the way that things work now isn't working for a bunch of people.

[Missing_Minds]

There must be a point were people have the right to respond freely in a public discussion.

These are private forums where he is bound by the whims of Turbine and has no such freedom.

As for the shadows issues... the more and more I've been thinking through it, it isn't Turbine DDO developers at fault.

It is Turbine Engine developers who are at fault, but worse than that, it is the management that underfunds them to make updates and changes that are truly at fault. The two groups are separate as we have been able to piece together.

For example, the mouse cursor being so dang small. Even DDO devs don't like it and wish it could get fixed but they don't have the power to do so. It was from this we learned there was a separate Engine group.

[Postumus]

My thoughts on this thread:

OP is being ridiculous and over the top in his rhetoric,

per usual? :)

[danotmano1998]

I *think* what the OP was trying to say is this:


You did this!!
http://nukethefridge.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/16539.jpg

:rolleyes: :p ;)

[hecate355]

You do realize that the OP is the one who tried round up a bunch of "cyberbullies" to bully a relative helpless victim (helpless in the regard that Turbine employees, unlike other posters, cannot respond however they like)? The OP isn't exactly pulling punches in his accusations either. The OP was the one who posted a public attack on a forum were he knew hundreds of people will read and possibly respond to it.

There must be a point were people have the right to respond freely in a public discussion. The OP would have merely posted how his GC died, he likely found sympathy. He opted to insult and demean other people and in return posters insulted and demeaned his post. So, no I don't agree that people here need to be especially considerate about his feelings. You cannot go to off-topic and bash Americans either and then try hide behind anti-cyberbullying laws to keep Americans from responding in kind to your slander.

That being said, it's possible take it too far, but the people actually attacking the OP as person are rather few. Most attack his post/opinion. I'd agree with you if people would take it so far to dig up pictures alleging they resemble an OP, mock how fat/ugly/small (s)he is, begin to stalk the person to defame his/her facebook pages, e-mail his/her co-workers and employer and generally try make all aspects of his/her life miserable but that's not happening here. All that is happening here is some (numerous) folks saying "you are wrong and I think your allegations are rather silly", some do so in less polite ways but that still does not constitute bullying, merely an OP held responsible for his own words.

Could had worded myself better i suppose. 'Reminds' was more like meant to be in context of me recalling situations outside thread. Seen it plenty of times to recognize, yet my response was only loosely based on this thread.

As for actual thread, i suspect the OP did receive the message/answer and whether he admits his 'quirks' in communication or not is whole other story. And that you cant force upon anyone anyway.

One is sure, you dont always have to take the bait thrown at you.

PS. I agree, most did react ok, with even some quite extensive replies. And sure is not the ugliest thread iv run into.

[hecate355]

I've got 20 years of software development experience on PCs. From high lvl languages to assembly code. There is no code that Trubine can write on a PC that will take out a processor, graphical or otherwise. Period.

You can overheat a processor. Too much graphics being processed too fast in any given timeframe can cause a processor meltdown. However, that's not a software glitch. That's called a crappy hardware design. Period.

There is a reason why they have heatsinks (OK), fans (better) and even fluid-cooled devices on high-end processors. When you run devices in the gigahertz, it releases radiation that is similar to a microwave oven, except at lower voltages. That builds up on the chip as heat, which has to be dissapated. Most processors and supporting circuitry have current sensors and/or heat sensors to either shut off the processor, slow it down, or whatnot. However, if that stuff doesn't work, the end result is a fried processor.

This has been a problem with PC processors since the almighty 386 166 MHz processor came out nearly two decades ago.

And if the card manufacturer releases a card that can be fried by running a game, that's the fault of the engineers that designed the thing, and not the people who wrote software for it. They set the operational tolerences too low for the potential processing load.

Consequently, the manufarcturer of the card is the one who pays to have the drivers developed for the card, and is the one who releases them for distribution. The people who make the operating system do not, in general, do this. it requires extensive knowledge of the chipset, various IO ports going in and out of the card, and so on. The driver needs to conform to the standard of the operating system, and the game software conforms to the standards made by the manufacturer of the operating system as well. There is no "direct link" from the software to the hardware IO. They generally use a platform like DirectX for their video calls...which has to run through protected mode calls established by the operating system. Nonetheless, the code of the graphics engine for DDO is pretty much isolated from the actual hardware of the card by several layers of software over which they have no control.

So, you can go scream at Microsoft if you'd like. I don't think you'll get very far.

Consequently, if your card has a heatsink on it - which is a big metal block with fins or spikes coming off of it - that is used to dissapate heat. The assumption is that the more surface area on this piece of metal (attached to the processor by a thermal conductor) the more heat gets radiated off of the chip. That works real well until you get dust or stuff caught in the fins, or if you don't have enough airflow in the case of the PC. Then heat builds up, and it may potentially destroy your graphics chip. Which is why many high-end cards use fans. But fans have moving parts, and virtually anything with moving parts wears out. Heat sensors in the circuitry are also not foolproof, and if they go bad at any point, you've got a boat anchor for a PC.

This is called "reality." Also things like friction, heat, and oxidation are delegated to this obscure subject known as "physics."

So, you can go scream at the manufacturer of the video card if you'd like. Hopefully, the thing is under warrenty. If not...well...too bad for you.

But don't scream at the DDO devs, or Turbine. There is no "king bug" they've "created."

Looks like you hit the nail, what OP and other do with presented information is up to them and their beliefs.

[KillEveryone]

My video card has yet to fry in there.

After removing the stencil shadows, I stopped stuttering so much.

I really doubt that any video card fry from entering there is from the game. More likely your card was going bad or if it is fairly new, it defective.

[HanzelC]

So many people here are simply dismissing this out of hand. Most in fact. OP is obviously upset that his PC crashed on him. However, I myself have had 3 mother board melt downs over the past 18 months or so, all have fried while playing this game (random places in game world). But seperate computers. One a high powered tower and 2 seperate laptops. All running rather low graphics settings. Coincidence?
Any other bright ideas, or just the usual rip the author garbage?
Note: not blaming DDO here, just seems the client is seriously over taxing my systems. I'm wonderimg why and if there is anything I can do to keep it from happening again?

Oldguy

[Hambo]

No, I'm the old man that just wants to reach his destination and tries to continue while getting dropkicked.

No, you're the old man demanding his due respect no matter how wrong he is :D

BTW... 35 years and counting working on Personal Computer hardware here... The only software caused hardware damage I can recall is the undocumented opcode on the 8080A chip (Intel stepped to the 8080B to fix the issue in 1977 iirc) that, because it wasn't used wasn't specifically tested. When the byte was accidentally executed it shorted Vcc to Ground :eek:

[Hokiewa]

No, you're the old man demanding his due respect no matter how wrong he is :D

/signed

Do you have a newsletter?

[DeafeningWhisper]

So many people here are simply dismissing this out of hand. Most in fact. OP is obviously upset that his PC crashed on him. However, I myself have had 3 mother board melt downs over the past 18 months or so, all have fried while playing this game (random places in game world). But seperate computers. One a high powered tower and 2 seperate laptops. All running rather low graphics settings. Coincidence?
Any other bright ideas, or just the usual rip the author garbage?
Note: not blaming DDO here, just seems the client is seriously over taxing my systems. I'm wonderimg why and if there is anything I can do to keep it from happening again?

Oldguy

Get a free software to be able check your hardware temperature, I use SIW 2011, clean your PC every 3/4 weeks to make sure there is no dust blocking your fans/vents (use a vacuum) and find a way to set your fans to spin at 100% at all times, I use RivaTuner.

DDO burns hotter then any other game I've ever had, if you do all that and set graphics to a managable amount it should work just fine and spare your hardware needles stress.

[wez]

I7 2600k unlocked
dual GTX570
8Gb 2000MHz ram
ASUS motherboard
overclocked to 3.6GHz
Liquid cooled in a HAF-X case with 6 fans

I have the skip lag in the sub. I have learned to ignore it, it goes away in the raids.

but this is exactly the problem,
why should this machine^^ get lag in any game that is not connection related,

[squishwizzy]

So many people here are simply dismissing this out of hand. Most in fact. OP is obviously upset that his PC crashed on him. However, I myself have had 3 mother board melt downs over the past 18 months or so, all have fried while playing this game (random places in game world). But seperate computers. One a high powered tower and 2 seperate laptops. All running rather low graphics settings. Coincidence?
Any other bright ideas, or just the usual rip the author garbage?
Note: not blaming DDO here, just seems the client is seriously over taxing my systems. I'm wonderimg why and if there is anything I can do to keep it from happening again?

Oldguy

How do you know it is a motherboard problem?

[karnokvolrath]

I have a ghetto emachines 400$ walmart special....

Sbt works fine...

Shadowcrypt works fine...

I have most my setting at about medium, i leave the distance ratio high...i think its called draw rate.

I dont know, i hear these horror stories and its always someones min/maxxed awesomesauce computer that they built themselves. Just sayin...know what im sain?

[squishwizzy]

but this is exactly the problem,
why should this machine^^ get lag in any game that is not connection related,

Define "lag."

An easy way to address this is to have something like a browser up and DDO. Get into a place where DDO "lags" and then alt-tab to the browser. Does it switch seamlessly? If so, it's not your processor or your graphics card.

There is kind of a long explanation to this that I'll try and simplify. Back in the days of DOS, you could write directly to hardware from your program. Windows came along, and via protected mode operations, put up a wall between the program and the hardware. The operating system was the piece that did translation. Unfortunatelty, the way they set up this translation - aka the Windows GDI - it was horribly inefficient for things like games.

Along comes stiff like DirectX to somewhat circumvent that, and provide a more stramlined layer between an app like DDO and the physical hardware. However, this is all still dependant on drivers and levels of OS software. There is still a basic wall between application code and the graphics hardware. And if anything in those layers has a bug or two in it (and most software does), it will undoubtedly show up, and affect performamce.

Consequently, if you have a milti-core processor, the operating system is the one that basically directs what "virtual processor" will be utilized for various code functions. So if the OS, say, "grabs" a single core for itself, and does all processing for DDO through that core, it is indeed possible to get lag on a high-end PC when you start funneling too much through that single core.

Also, if there are inefficiencies in the graphics engine that DDO uses, that could EASILY show up as lag, especially on PCs that use a lot of graphics detail. My system regulary starts to lag in boss fight on Dreaming Dark when the Living Nighmares come out. But the rest of my system seems relatively unaffected. My thought is that this is a problem somewhere in the graphics engine.

There are lots of different ways to increase speed in a PC application, and different ways to utilize multi-core processors without the OS directing the traffic. Much of it takes into assumption that there is a minimum PC configuration that you'll need to run an application. If this minimum requirement is that you MUST run on a single-core PC, then DDO is going to have specific lag issues until those types of PCs are extinct. Because you can't pawn off work to a seperate processor core if you only have one processor core to go to.

Mind you, much of what I've described is at the 10,000 ft. (m?) level. So I've simplified quite a bit if information.

I hope that helps.

So, I hope that helps a little.

[Marcus-Hawkeye]

but this is exactly the problem,
why should this machine^^ get lag in any game that is not connection related,

Which ASUS motherboard? I primarily use ASUS for my motherboards, but I've had some really buggy ASUS boards before...

[wez]

i have asus p8z68-v lx i dont use lucid on i5 2500k just my card.
its not lag,as in what we would call connection lag in game,
when in sub t solo or group im getting a stutter every few seconds constantly.
for me this only happens in sub t,and only with enviroment stencil shadows on.
my pc specs,to save looking through thread.
asus p8z68-v lx
i5 2nd gen 2500k
8 gig xms3 1600 ram
580watt psu
evga gtx470
80 gig raptor frow win7 and ddo.
250 gig for storage.
BT infinity fibre optic 38mb/s dl 7 mb/s ul
i have no trouble playing crisis 2 and battlefield 3 at highest settings why cant my pc handle ddo.
edit:my old pc could play ddo at ultra with enviroment stencil shadows off,and that was a hd4870 4 gig ram and socket 775 dual core

[parvo]

I have a nightlight near my computer that I use at night. Twice while playing DDO, it has burned out, and once it started flickering. Coincidence?

[LordPiglet]

Get a free software to be able check your hardware temperature, I use SIW 2011, clean your PC every 3/4 weeks to make sure there is no dust blocking your fans/vents (use a vacuum) and find a way to set your fans to spin at 100% at all times, I use RivaTuner.

DDO burns hotter then any other game I've ever had, if you do all that and set graphics to a managable amount it should work just fine and spare your hardware needles stress.

A novice should never use a vacumn on a computer. Used canned air.

[hecate355]

I have a nightlight near my computer that I use at night. Twice while playing DDO, it has burned out, and once it started flickering. Coincidence?

Its pure evil, sucks life out of everything.

[goodspeed]

weird normally their be a auto kill in the system if the heat got to bad. Clock responsibly.

Anyway 7900gt out before the 8800 ripoff scam and it runs like a champ on max. lol 300$ card.


A novice should never use a vacumn on a computer. Used canned air.

And read directions holding said air away from the case. Saw I guy hold one of those right up there and held that puppy down. Snapped the end right off that sound card. Short bursts and held away is the key.

And ya a vacuum will draw all kinds of static. Nice way to fry something. Get a grounder for all the work.


i have asus p8z68-v lx i dont use lucid on i5 2500k just my card.
its not lag,as in what we would call connection lag in game,
when in sub t solo or group im getting a stutter every few seconds constantly.
for me this only happens in sub t,and only with enviroment stencil shadows on.
my pc specs,to save looking through thread.
asus p8z68-v lx
i5 2nd gen 2500k
8 gig xms3 1600 ram
580watt psu
evga gtx470
80 gig raptor frow win7 and ddo.
250 gig for storage.
BT infinity fibre optic 38mb/s dl 7 mb/s ul
i have no trouble playing crisis 2 and battlefield 3 at highest settings why cant my pc handle ddo.
edit:my old pc could play ddo at ultra with enviroment stencil shadows off,and that was a hd4870 4 gig ram and socket 775 dual core

Could be a slew of things. For instance just glancing it looks like you got a newer intel chip, not sure on the mobo, up to date memory which im guessing works fine with the cpu as it starts but what about the rap, and or the other HDD. Is it up to snuff to handle the other parts? Or is it bottle necking? (Ya that's the fun part.)

The graphics card. Is it playing nice with the cpu? Is it playing nice with the game? With the game and cpu? The cpu to the game? All these happen. For some reason parts tend to not like other parts. And it seems like no matter what all games tend to not like some specific part. People were flippn their lids because these thousand dollar pc's they bought didn't wanna play nice with MW3. Same with mmo's. Some change could even bring it on.

Is the power supply still good or is it dieing? Did it partially fry some of the coil in there? Lack of the juice can cause a strain to.

All all that prolly a few more are just on your end. Now to the really really fun part. Ya it could be your provider. In which case is it the cat5 cable? Is it the modem? Is it the router? Could it be the card inside your pc that connects? Could your provider just be cutting into your signal to save cash spreading it sending it else ware? (Seen that.)

Their are literally tens of things it could be. Good luck finding which.