Looking for thoughts on best race for Ranger

[slarden]

My ranger Slarden is about to complete his 4th life (1 as a fighter/rogue and 3 as a ranger). His final life will be an arcane archer to take advantage of the +6 damage bonus from the 3 previous ranger lives and because I've enjoyed playing arcane archer.

I am trying to figure out what race is best for end-game content. I've been thinking all along that would be elf for the +2 ranged damage enhancement bonus, but I have also been considering half-elf which loses the +2 ranged damage bonus but gains 40% healing amplification. If I stack a healing amp item on top of the 40% racial bonus my cure serious wounds go from roughly 60 per spell to 100 per spell which gives me better self healing.

I am close to finishing my first greater might seal/shard/scroll set. He will have greensteel hp necklace, greensteel sp belt (although this is questionable) and attack bonus +4 goggles (also something I may replace as I never miss). For armor I will either use dragontouched (still don'thave healing 20% rune) or parasitic breastplate with +10 reflex save bonus to bring me close to a 40 reflex save. I hope to have TOD ring that gives exc +1/exce +2 str/dex but I haven't managed to get any of the rings I need in nearly 20 TODs over my past lifes - mainly because I TR so quickly.

Since this is my final life I would like to get as many ideas I can from rangers that played significant high level content. I've only done about 30 or so epics with Slarden as he has been TR'ing and my alts have been doing most of the epic farming.

Thanks for any input!

[Monkey-Boy]

Human/Helf.

[SEMPER]

human / helf / elf are good ones but honestly you can make anything work based on the build and your playstyle

[toaf]

i say if you like clickies then go halfelf/ human (extra feat) if you dont like clickies. i would go elf with ranged attack/ranged

ohh and half elf/human gets the 20% damage clickie

[Ilindith]

Everything, WF.

[Aeolwind]

My ranger Slarden is about to complete his 4th life (1 as a very fighter/rogue and 3 as a ranger). His final life will be an arcane archer to take advantage of the +6 damage bonus from the 3 previous ranger lives and because I've enjoyed playing arcane archer.
Keep in mind that the only time AA is 'good dps' is when you are using Manyshot. I'm not saying don't use a bow. Just some friendly advice to not be 'that guy'. Under most circumstances outside of manyshot, dual wielding daggers would be more DPS than just the bow.


I am trying to figure out what race is best for end-game content. I've been thinking all along that would be elf for the +2 ranged damage enhancement bonus, but I have also been considering half-elf which loses the +2 ranged damage bonus but gains 40% healing amplification. If I stack a healing amp item on top of the 40% racial bonus my cure serious wounds go from roughly 60 per spell to 100 per spell which gives me better self healing.
Half Elf, for the reasons you stated & Dil feat for potentially arcane scrolls or rez/heal scrolls, barb for HP, etc. You will regret not having the utility over time if you don't splash rogue for UMD.


I am close to finishing my first greater might seal/shard/scroll set. He will have greensteel hp necklace, greensteel sp belt (although this is questionable) and attack bonus +4 goggles (also something I may replace as I never miss). For armor I will either use dragontouched (still don'thave healing 20% rune) or parasitic breastplate with +10 reflex save bonus to bring me close to a 40 reflex save. I hope to have TOD ring that gives exc +1/exce +2 str/dex but I haven't managed to get any of the rings I need in nearly 20 TODs over my past lifes - mainly because I TR so quickly.
Gear looks solid, I'd make the neck a Min2 HP item at least as it fights for a lot of other gear & the belt is ConOpp. Choosing these as your GS pretty much removes any set bonuses you might get from TOD sets however.


Since this is my final life I would like to get as many ideas I can from rangers that played significant high level content. I've only done about 30 or so epics with Slarden as he has been TR'ing and my alts have been doing most of the epic farming.

Thanks for any input!
Enjoy, rangers are a blast to play honestly. I dug mine as I drifted through this life.

[slarden]

Thank you for all the replies especially aeolwind for the very detailed write-up.

Is there a good articile somewhere on attack speed so I can crunch some numbers to compute dps?

I will probably stick with arcane archer and if the toon isn't viable for certain epics, then I will just use other toons for those epics. But first I need to understand attack speed better.

I definitely need to fine tune switching between a bow, two weapons and possibly even a weapon/shield. Below level 20 the fights are so quick that switching weapons rarely makes sense. There are some advantages of bows I lose when two-weapon fighting and I really need to do the math to understand better when switching make sense.

The big benefits of bow fighting are:

1) +6 damage from 3 stacking passive past life ranger feats
2) slaying arrows that probably average around 20 per arrow based on some tests I did. I need to test this out in epic I am sure the # will be less against bosses due to fortification.
3) 25% ranged attack speed bonus @ level 20
4) for certain epics like echrono I have thousands of xoriat lawbane and anarchic arrows I can use for the end boss rather than just arcane arrows.
5) less running around since I can find a spot and shoot from it rather than having to run in/out of fights.

Also, the actual ratio of many shot vs. no many shot is slightly higher than the theoretical # since fighting isn't continuous but many shot is always used during fights.

I am not disagreeing with your points aeolwind, I really appreciate your bringing this up. I just need to crunch the numbers to see how the math works out. I tried to find some information on attack speed but wasn't able to find anything on bows vs. one-handed weapons.

Thank you again.

[Uska]

if you dont mind tring 3 more times go get 3 monk lives for 3 more stacking damage from past life feats

[slarden]

Thank you, I considered 3 monk lifes but given the time it's probably not worth it for +3 damage. I will probably start TRing my cc palemaster wizard next. I may just park Slarden on the bench if I can confirm range dps is bad. Based on performance I always though my dps was high, but I would like to understand the math so I can know for sure.

I found a post where someone stated you get 34 attacks per minute with a bow and 52 attacks per minute with a sword. Several people confirmed that sword attack speed is 50% higher and the conclusion was the same - ranged dps is not as good.

If I do the math,

This means that for the 100 seconds without manyshot with a level 20 ranger getting 25% ranged speed capstone, you would get the following # of attacks:

longbow: 70.83 (34 * 100/60 * 1.25 )
sword: 86.67 (52 * 100/60)

For the 20 second many-shot the ranger would get the following attacks:

longbow: 56.1 (34 * 20/60 * 1.25 * 4 for rate of manyshot)
sword: 17.33

Total

longbow: 127.5
sword: 104

I am not presenting this as a fact, but rather my understanding of how many attacks I would get with each weapon over a 2 minute period. Of course this is all based on information I can't confirm :)

If someone can show me the math that would be great. I am certainly not trying to argue with anyone, but if ranged dps is so much worse I would like to see the math to back it up so I can make a decision based on fact rather than opinion.

Thanks again. I am just trying to learn something here.

[krogyy]

are you really set on rolling a ranged ranger or is it just an AA you want?

in the latter case, there are much more effective builds out there. look up the helves angel for example (can be modified easily as an elf also).

[Phidius]

...
Total

longbow: 127.5
sword: 104

I am not presenting this as a fact, but rather my understanding of how many attacks I would get with each weapon over a 2 minute period. Of course this is all based on information I can't confirm :)

If someone can show me the math that would be great. I am certainly not trying to argue with anyone, but if ranged dps is so much worse I would like to see the math to back it up so I can make a decision based on fact rather than opinion.

Thanks again. I am just trying to learn something here.

Look at it like this (using your numbers)...

Longbow w/ ManyShot: 56.1 + Sword w/o ManyShot: 86.67 = 142.77

This is why they say to put away the bow when ManyShot is on timer.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

No best race; they all have something to offer.

But I am leaning toward Half Elves lately. They can take the best of the Human enhancements, can be full AAs if multiclassed. Have a cool Dragon mark, and the Dillitant(sp) feat allows for some cool customization options.

I still like Elves too. Especially for the Displacement Dragon mark.

Humans get an extra feat, and god enhancements.

WF have immunities, and good HP.

Dwarves are tough too. Dwarven Axes are nice.

Halflings can get the best AC, hit better, can get a little SA damage, good saves, and can be great healers with the Dragon Marks.

Drow SR is nice, and is really underrated by many players.

Half Orcs? lol. Well they have high Str, so best possible DPS. But actually, I think they have the least to offer.

[slarden]

Look at it like this (using your numbers)...

Longbow w/ ManyShot: 56.1 + Sword w/o ManyShot: 86.67 = 142.77

This is why they say to put away the bow when ManyShot is on timer.

Yes, but I lose +6 damage for past life feats, slaying arrows and beyond that the damage is identical for each attack. I gain a small benefit of extra attacks, but each attack does less damage so what is the benefit of doing so when there seems to be other drawbacks as I mentioned above.

[Phidius]

Yes, but I lose +6 damage for past life feats, slaying arrows and beyond that the damage is identical for each attack. I gain a small benefit of extra attacks, but each attack does less damage so what is the benefit of doing so when there seems to be other drawbacks as I mentioned above.

I'm no good at DPS calculations - sorry. Somewhere around here there's an Excel spreadsheet that Absolute_Omniscience put out that helps to compare DPS, but I've not given it more than a cursory look-see.

I recommend that you play what's fun, and let Turbine worry about the math :D

[slarden]

are you really set on rolling a ranged ranger or is it just an AA you want?

in the latter case, there are much more effective builds out there. look up the helves angel for example (can be modified easily as an elf also).

Thank you,

I want to build a ranged-focus ranger - I am not locked into arcane archer. I looked up the helves angel build and it is interesting and I see the benefits. I am mainly focused on end-game content so it seems like the damage benefit of the 12/6/2 build is minimal considering I would need to give up the ranger capstone, favored enemies and a few other things. I mean simply using the Terror sword will probably clear mobs with less swings by taking a single feat - improved critical - slashing. For bosses and certain other enemies I can use two custom-crafted bane weapons specific to the epic I am running. Also, the gear is independent of the prestige enhancement and class choices. Much of the benefit posted for helves angels was from gear and buffs. But that sold me on taking the half-elf rouge feat instead of monk.

At level 7 I will decide if I want to go for helves angel vs. arcane archer.

[krogyy]

Thank you,

I want to build a ranged-focus ranger - I am not locked into arcane archer. I looked up the helves angel build and it is interesting and I see the benefits. I am mainly focused on end-game content so it seems like the damage benefit of the 12/6/2 build is minimal considering I would need to give up the ranger capstone, favored enemies and a few other things. I mean simply using the Terror sword will probably clear mobs with less swings by taking a single feat - improved critical - slashing. For bosses and certain other enemies I can use two custom-crafted bane weapons specific to the epic I am running. Also, the gear is independent of the prestige enhancement and class choices. Much of the benefit posted for helves angels was from gear and buffs. But that sold me on taking the half-elf rouge feat instead of monk.

At level 7 I will decide if I want to go for helves angel vs. arcane archer.

both the helves angel and a pure ranger can take the full arcane archer line.

the advantage of the helves angel is when manyshot is on cooldown, since its twf dps is _far_ higher than what a pure ranger can do (twf or ranged w/o manyshot).

besides the capstone doesn't grant an increase of 25% to the rate of fire as it says. it's around 10% in effective terms.

still, if you want to _only_ use bows then a pure ranger is slightly better. but if you care about dps you should switch to twf when manyshot is on cooldown anyway and then helves angel comes out ahead.

[slarden]

both the helves angel and a pure ranger can take the full arcane archer line.

the advantage of the helves angel is when manyshot is on cooldown, since its twf dps is _far_ higher than what a pure ranger can do (twf or ranged w/o manyshot).

besides the capstone doesn't grant an increase of 25% to the rate of fire as it says. it's around 10% in effective terms.

still, if you want to _only_ use bows then a pure ranger is slightly better. but if you care about dps you should switch to twf when manyshot is on cooldown anyway and then helves angel comes out ahead.

What I was thinking is that I could use ranged for manyshot and then switch to Terror during the cool down. Although the damage would be higher with helves angel, Terror would still take down non-bosses in less swings due to the death effect. All I need is one feat for that with a full level 20 ranger - improved critical slashing. I suspect this weapon is bugged and working better than intended, but others told me it is working as intended and will not change.

I haven't totally ruled out helves angel. I am actually leaning towards giving it a try especially if the ranger capstone is less than advertised. I didn't test that out before I TR'd last night.

So right now I am a TR'd half elf ranger level one with the half-elf rogue feat for sneak attack bonus. Level 7 comes fairly quickly so I will decide in the next few days whether to try helves angel or stick with ranger 20 (relying on terror between many shots with improved critical slashing).

Thanks for the tips.

[Seamonkeysix]

I had an elven 20 AA and I have a half-elf 20 Helves Angel. There is no comparison in overall DPS. The Helves Angel smokes the 20 AA hands down.

I TR'd the 20 AA to Artificer. If I was going to build an AA, I would definitely go Helves Angel.

[slarden]

I had an elven 20 AA and I have a half-elf 20 Helves Angel. There is no comparison in overall DPS. The Helves Angel smokes the 20 AA hands down.

I TR'd the 20 AA to Artificer. If I was going to build an AA, I would definitely go Helves Angel.


I will likely give this build a try. although I would really like to mathematically compute DPS to confirm what other have observed.

I have only a few reservations about helves angel:

1) I am giving up some ranged dps by going helves angel during the manyshot, but am I really gaining anything if I use terror during the non-many-shot period? It's so rare that an enemy dies from damage with terror that dps seems almost meaningless. With Helves Angel or AA 20, I will still take down the same number of enemies with roughly the same # of attacks using Terror. I don't think a helves angel will take down epic enemies using two epic weapons any faster than a level 20 arcane archer would using terror. I think whatever build is using terror will take down enemies quickest as long as they have improved critical slashing and a decent attack #
2) I am not sure about eliminating the self healing I have as a Ranger. I was hoping to get my cure serious wounds from 60 to 100 this life rather than eliminate it, but I want to build the best toon I can so I may just need to get over that and move on. I was able to save a few shrouds when the party went down in part IV and was able to do the same in several quests. If I have to rely on a cleric for heals I won't have the same ability to survive and recover from a near wipe. Especially when I am right up with the boss.
3) Is helves angel comparable in dps to a fighter tempest 20 or barbarian 20? Will it be considered a weak multi-class build compared to other options?

Thanks again for all the tips.

[ShadowFlash]

This topic does crop up rather frequently. The addition of "Point Blank Shot" goodness went along way towards boosting the "almost always on a bow" playstyle. I'm still confident that the helves playstyle (not just the build) is in fact more DPS AND more situationaly useful in keeping up that DPS.

That being said, Math ain't everything :p Group dynamics and individual playstyle and gear tend to influence bow use a lot more than raw DPS. My AA wife and I duo some quests where she almost never puts down the bow...then there's other quests where she's on swords almost all of the time. The beauty of ranger is you inherently have BOTH options.

You mention Terror (an excellent weapon, no doubt) and spending one feat...Imp Crit...on it. Well, If you're an elf, Imp Crit and TWFing scimitars ain't exactly bad DPS either :p ...still for the same one feat cost.

I personally don't mind AA's playing any way they are comfortable or geared for, but really, when we're down to just the straggler's, and you're not on manyshot...it's just quicker to whip out the blades and kill em. In the thick of a large mob, I can see continuing with single shot bows (making use of point blank, sneak attack from items, and improved precise shot) as being a better option than TWF....and more survivable for you. Again, group dynamics, and situational DPS...the greatest strength of a good ranger-based AA build IMHO.

Just some random thoughts :)
ShadowFlash

[Kages]

I'm going to throw my 2 cents in for ya to give you an idea of what I think some people are trying to say with the term "alternate builds" or "better builds".

Key Focus "AA"

Arcane Archer does not have to be a ranger. Example is the Elf race, if you go elf, at level 20 you can go AA. True it sucks while leveling, but the benifits for high end game playing outway the leveling time. As you stated you wanted a final build.

If you go fighter levels (atleast 12) you can get all of the bonus feats to put in as you choose to boost your ranged damage (more than likely having enough left over to boost the second weapon set aswell) and still able to take the 6 levels of ranger that give you most of the important feats rangers get given to them. You can also get more AC out of it and HP's to help tide you over while your slinging them arrows. Evasion is still easy enough to get with 2 levels of monk/rogue giving there class bonuses with it IE wisdomAC and or trap skills.

There are hundreds of ways to better your toons with what is presented in DDO and the most important thing is not to take what people here say as FACT. In the end it is your toon and should be allowed to play it the way you want to. That said, not all basic, general, or proven builds are the best and what works for me, may not work for your play style. All advice I give is from my perspective/experience and reflects nothing on you as a player. Hope what I said was news regarding AA fighters and what not. Enjoy the game.

[Munkenmo]

If you're mainly focused on AA

I'd throw in a Half elf, 12monk, 6ranger, 2artificer or fighter AA builds that are all the rage at the moment.

The 10k stars available is effectively a second manyshot.

I'm finding even with my complete lack of gear Rangenmo (http://my.ddo.com/character/sarlona/rangenmo/) is one of my favorite toons to play at the moment.

Earth stance during manyshot and when i have enough ki for my next 10k stars = *3 crits
Water stance during 10k stars for extra arrows
shadowfade
abundant step
walk on water.

best part is that if (you're crazy) and don't like it at cap, when you TR you get another +1 damage next life

[ShadowFlash]

If you're mainly focused on AA

I'd throw in a Half elf, 12monk, 6ranger, 2artificer or fighter AA builds that are all the rage at the moment.

The 10k stars available is effectively a second manyshot.

I'm finding even with my complete lack of gear Rangenmo (http://my.ddo.com/character/sarlona/rangenmo/) is one of my favorite toons to play at the moment.

Earth stance during manyshot and when i have enough ki for my next 10k stars = *3 crits
Water stance during 10k stars for extra arrows
shadowfade
abundant step
walk on water.

best part is that if (you're crazy) and don't like it at cap, when you TR you get another +1 damage next life

I always find amusing what some describe as "complete lack of gear" includes 4 epic items (5th being the epic helm upgrade coming I'm sure), Litany of the dead, ToD items, and RAID gear :p

Perfectly geared?...no...but a far cry away from "complete lack of gear"

ShadowFlash

[Munkenmo]

I always find amusing what some describe as "complete lack of gear" includes 4 epic items (5th being the epic helm upgrade coming I'm sure), Litany of the dead, ToD items, and RAID gear :p

Perfectly geared?...no...but a far cry away from "complete lack of gear"

ShadowFlash

cmon lets be fair here too, the bow / goggles are both easily obtained items that even in pugs people are happy to roll off

and the gloves are an easy gimme from the cove.

to me, most of the gear on rangemo is stepping stone / throw away gear.

i'm still chasing an epic stalker ring, frozen tunic, decent tod set, shard of the thornlord, ravensight goggles.

p.s. I probably shouldn't mention the only reason i haven't made the epic moron helmet is cause i haven't gotten round to putting a shard in my shared bank.

[ShadowFlash]

cmon lets be fair here too, the bow / goggles are both easily obtained items that even in pugs people are happy to roll off

and the gloves are an easy gimme from the cove.

to me, most of the gear on rangemo is stepping stone / throw away gear.

i'm still chasing an epic stalker ring, frozen tunic, decent tod set, shard of the thornlord, ravensight goggles.

p.s. I probably shouldn't mention the only reason i haven't made the epic moron helmet is cause i haven't gotten wound to putting a shard in my shared bank.

lol :D I know it's not end gear, but ya gotta admit seeing a bunch of epic items, ToD rings/necklace, and raid gear definately raised an eyebrow :p and haha! I knew that epic helm had to be right around the corner :p

All kidding aside...a good example of a reasonable Monkcher (non-uber leet).

ShadowFlash

[slarden]

Many thanks for the replies, advice and information. I think I will try the ranger 6 / monk 2 / fighter 12 helves angel build although I agree highly with the point about situational benefits of being a ranger 20 AA and the idea of 12 monk levels looks very strong as well. All the ideas presented were very good and well-thought out and I appreciate the education.

I asked a question about race and ended up with a completely different build. Change is good :)

[gfunk]

-Right now my ranger is on 2nd AA life (Elven. 12monk/6rgr/2fighter)
-Other past lives include 3*ranger + 2*fighter
-10k stars is a nice add for sure, and the fighter haste boost is good icing
-Still, its no barn burner in terms of dps

I will likely go helf next life to try that out. I'll let you know how it works out. The hideous looks of the helfs have kept me from trying it sooner, but the playability upside is undeniable.

Ultimately I think the eventual +9 damage (and +3 hit with completed 3rd fighter life) will go very nice with an Arti. Really looking forward to see how that works out.

[Zyerz]

Half Elf or Human for Tempest, Elf for AA.