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View Full Version : Open letter to DEVS, CS, QA and Producers here who lurk.



Drwaz99
04-03-2012, 01:20 AM
Well we used to have a place where we could tell what was on the DEV thoughts, but it's taken away. SO I wrote a fairly longer letter to describe how I feel about some DEV comments, lack thereof of MOtU media currently about, and where I think the 'people behind the game should be heading' (if I believe they are wrong.)

Please remember a couple of things though. KEEP IT CIVIL at all times. Nothing get a thread full of good ideas trashed. And if you choose to want to write a similar letter, just make sure it's professional and well thought out and I can add it to the original post here if indicated.




Hate me if you want, as of right now I'm not letting anyone crack open the build for this. Nope no way. Nada.
I need developers working on the expansion pack, and that only. Again, hate me all you want, but creating a whole new realm takes priority over a broken bag. This is pretty much true of a few of the other issues that crept in today also.

This may change of course, but as of this second, sorry folks, at the very least patch 2.

Start throwing stones in 3...2...

Prelog: I m a big fan of Maj here in the forums, and I also have been very critical to some points, I think we have a good deal of repertoire regarding instances as of this. I want to make a few observation from reading almost every post that is posted from 9mdt to 12a today. EDT.


I'm not letting anyone crack open the
build for this.
Nope no way. Nada.

1. It's fairly clear by his posts that this (ingredient bag fix) more than likely not even be considered being included in the Expansion Part since all the Dev need to finish it up are taken to work on that project. Once the beta goes down and out out (live goes up and done with beta process.), there are going to be bugs everywhere. (My basis is the pure fact that each of the last 4 (dividing the number of new content/the content added for a very-rough figure of 16% so for every ten items included in patch update, roughly 2 out of ten tend to be MAJOR (game changer until fixed) bug, no the small one.-5-6 updates that have game changing alterations preformed. And the MOtU Presale - It was a debacle for the first 7ish days into. Then after this we have the single largest thing the addition to the game, since it's inception and subsequent release. (MOtU) SO statistical you can expect a few+++ major game issues, more bugs you could ever imagine could exist and still be able to play, Oh, and exploits are going to be very common. Sure we get to test it out on the Public Preview" (As Jerry Calls it) Or Private test Server (as other mods call it). SO that's a tad wordy explanation of why no time frame yet. They need work on a Expansion that's due in 90days. I bet we will be doing 95% of the testing as Maj team just isn't large enough to do quality checks on ALL the new stuff. Add to the fact he has newer people. There will be mistakes, and just like they always pray for before laugh "Please God, small bug ok, just no game breaking ones." Maybe that's why releases have trended to be around Mondays now..So they can pray all day Sunday! :p

ok /off intermittan sarcasm

Here are my doubts in a little easier to read bullets: This is the biggest thing to happen to thing game in almost 8 yrs.There will be lots of problems. I always wait for the first 23-48 hours to re log on, just to avoid any of the issues that might creep up. That way I don't have to take 2 weeks (sometimes longer aka scrolls, and even them had been fix for a hot patch before 31.1 ,there was a post saying that it was fixed..but just one, if someone would like a citation there, please ask and I will try to find it>) to get it fixed.

Speaking of 90 days out, I think it would be reasonable to start dishing all the SS you possibly can, via Turbine PR dept, or here and let us spread it like wildfire on the most combustible field of social networking. Sorry Turbine, having a twitter and Facebook account that receive update whenever someone remembers, doesn't not come near the work of mouth be can bring to bear. But for us to get our rabbits warmed up is some eye candy SS (GOOD ONES) and Carrots.

My two final suggestion are short. Bags that have been were in-fact screwed by this absolutely need to be replaced. Just stick one on every toon, similar to MOtU-gate/birthday/"not too instantly available immediate game bonus perks" Personally, I would pull someone off the deign team and fix this. You know what's less more game breaking (but at the player level) is frustration. If your going to pass this along for 90, all we are going to get is mas, frustrated and the longer it takes, then possibly more people get fed up with it. To say that ings bags aren't game breaking is mistaken & foolish.I can use bag from Lvl 1 to Lvl 20. If you think about them working the way they should seriously diminished our ability to play (ie Crafting, all the diff. types, it effect the numerous thing you can do with the collectable (which include crafting. I personally don't have room to dump my bags into my shared bank tab. Not to mention the rare occurrence things go BYE_BYE every once in a while from the shared bank.

2. Lastly..Maj, we understand that you in QA. So you don't have the people skills of that of Community Specialist, etc, etc. I certainly applaud you effort in the last couple of months, but it still seems like David is getting his but whooped Goliath (turbine). Many of your posts are absolutely welcomed, but you a but rough around the edges if you get what I mean

I really hope you don't think (and 98% say they know, but don't care), that if you pull this off majorly well, it doesn't make the past issues disappear. You making it harder to find by adding million and millions of new possible that can break. I should start a pool to see haw large the Known Issues List grows in June. (Actually I might to that to distract ourselves)

That's it for me, I've been fairly quite about all this as I didn't want to jump on a bandwagon prematurely. Thanks for read, and Maj if you get around to reading

Sincerely Thanks,

Greg



Once again thank for reading. Maybe this will help kick start some new brainstorms. And at the very least, they know exactly what I/we want. Feel free to debate. Or totally kill my rep..Either way it goes I feel good about it.:)

Sleepsalot
04-03-2012, 01:42 AM
I also have given Maj. fits over some stuff.
But I also understand He has a Boss also.
I have done QA for a company that makes Collage and Universities Housing and Student dorm living. Their program used all over they world.
They had the Dev work out sorced. For many years.
Well they decided to bring it all back in House.
It took 6 months just to go through the base sorce code so they could make sence of what they got back.
Took us 6 more months to retest the new work.
So I do understand what the DDO devs and QA must have on their Plates..
Maj. seems like a stand up Guy. I see things from both sides.
If I wouldn't have to relocate I would be in there trying for a Job.
When some thing goes wrong the people come out and Gripe and yes I have also some.
I know it can take long hours and eating on the run.
These Guys/Gals have a r/l also.
So lets cut them some slack..
//Just my rant here..

Sleeps :D :) :D

Drwaz99
04-03-2012, 03:28 AM
I certainly don't disagree with you, but when a significant bug arises (granted it's not no gamer breaker, but can led incredible frustration.)

Basically it a call our the the producers', Senior producer's. Exec Producers and the higher up in the development team. The guys in here can makes some decisions ( i.e. MadFloyd, Eladrin and Maj) some just names off the tip of my tongue.

To see what their thinking is and why. We have had certain way in the beginning ThhE Weekly Developer Blog...Even if they could fix the dev tracker to work right (it's about 90% success rate and yes - I filed 4 reports.)I personally find the fact if they are this close to U13 and need everyone on deck the possibility of missing the deadline might loom. Which means they are far, far, far back from where they want to be. We'll see in June I suppose. Angain that's just my opinion.

Now if they come in here and say that they are fully on time, then there shroud be no problem grabbing a junior associate too look at one item. While it may be a difficult prognosis to get but the first was means no bags that aren't BTC or BTA, and that sir is a HUGE PITA!

gerardIII
04-03-2012, 03:43 AM
This ain't no letter.

Dragonela
04-03-2012, 07:52 AM
I think you are ALL missing the point, the problem is not how Maj answered or that it wont be fixed anytime soon.

One problem is WHY a bug that was reported in lammania was IGNORED and they went ahead to live with it, THAT is the real problem.
The other problem is WHY a bug like this is even introduced to start with, i work as a programmer and i know that if i made this kind of mistakes i would be sacked real fast.

You dont mess with your clients data, which in this case is like losing data since you lose the ability to put the container in your shared bank.

Sleepsalot
04-03-2012, 08:12 AM
Who reported it??? I saw nothing on the Lammy Forums about it at all..And I read many times a day just like on all the Forums.. Most on Lammy never get any BtC stuff there. Most don't even use the Bags.. That I know of any way,is hard to think 10-20 people would ever notice this....
Sleeps :D :) :D


I think you are ALL missing the point, the problem is not how Maj answered or that it wont be fixed anytime soon.

One problem is WHY a bug that was reported in lammania was IGNORED and they went ahead to live with it, THAT is the real problem.
The other problem is WHY a bug like this is even introduced to start with, i work as a programmer and i know that if i made this kind of mistakes i would be sacked real fast.

You dont mess with your clients data, which in this case is like losing data since you lose the ability to put the container in your shared bank.

TempestAlphaOmega
04-03-2012, 08:15 AM
I think you are ALL missing the point, the problem is not how Maj answered or that it wont be fixed anytime soon.

One problem is WHY a bug that was reported in lammania was IGNORED and they went ahead to live with it, THAT is the real problem.

Actually this part is really easy to understand.

A bug is reported on Lamannia.

Someone looks at it and says does this break the game? Answer here is no.

Does it create a major exploite? Answer here is no.

Does it create a problem that is greater than all the others issues that are fixed by the update? Answer here is no (yes some would debate this, I understand this is more subjective).

Does the issue warrent not releasing the update and retasking individuals away from what they are doing (there by possibly delaying future releases) so that the release can be sent back to QA after the fix is put in?

The last one is where someone made the call and said let it go. You don't have to agree with it, but some bugs that are found on Lamannia will go live because of this process.

Thrudh
04-03-2012, 08:39 AM
You dont mess with your clients data, which in this case is like losing data since you lose the ability to put the container in your shared bank.

It's nothing like losing data.

So put each individual item in the bank... That's how I do it anyway... That way if there's a bank glitch or game freeze, I only lose the last item I put in the bank, not an entire bag of ingrediants.

It's not that big a deal. Adapt.

Missing_Minds
04-03-2012, 08:44 AM
One problem is WHY a bug that was reported in lammania was IGNORED and they went ahead to live with it, THAT is the real problem.
The other problem is WHY a bug like this is even introduced to start with, i work as a programmer and i know that if i made this kind of mistakes i would be sacked real fast.


Can you actually prove that statement with a bug report number that can be verified or a post somewhere as I never saw anything about that.

If a post about bags getting broken was actually done, that thread would have exploded with people checking and complaining.

Sleepsalot
04-03-2012, 09:02 AM
Yes and I would have been one of the first to check Just like the TR inventory Bug...And I am sure you would have..

Sleeps :D :) :D


Can you actually prove that statement with a bug report number that can be verified or a post somewhere as I never saw anything about that.

If a post about bags getting broken was actually done, that thread would have exploded with people checking and complaining.

Combat_Wombat
04-03-2012, 09:12 AM
reported in lammania

That is an outright lie. Turbine even started the Lam bug forum section to prevent such things. Not a peep about this there or the general lam discussion. Yes there are bug reports but you need allot more proof then just saying a bug report was sent to make such grand claims that it was reported and ignored.

danotmano1998
04-03-2012, 09:49 AM
It's too early to say when the bag issue will be fixed (how can you say when it'll be fixed before you actually fix it, you know?) But, it'll be fixed as soon as we can make it happen, and we'll keep you up to date on it.

They'll fix it, according to Cordovan, quoted above.

Elation
04-03-2012, 10:57 AM
I think you are ALL missing the point, the problem is not how Maj answered or that it wont be fixed anytime soon.

One problem is WHY a bug that was reported in lammania was IGNORED and they went ahead to live with it, THAT is the real problem.
The other problem is WHY a bug like this is even introduced to start with, i work as a programmer and i know that if i made this kind of mistakes i would be sacked real fast.

You dont mess with your clients data, which in this case is like losing data since you lose the ability to put the container in your shared bank.


We do not own any of the data as client. You should know that. So as a programmer what do you did with millions of lines of code written by numerous programmers that you dont know, as well as meet rtequirements to push out content?

Cyr
04-03-2012, 11:19 AM
That is an outright lie. Turbine even started the Lam bug forum section to prevent such things. Not a peep about this there or the general lam discussion. Yes there are bug reports but you need allot more proof then just saying a bug report was sent to make such grand claims that it was reported and ignored.

It is very unlikely that every bug reported on Lammania was also reported on the online forums.

That said I have no information stating that this was reported on Lammania.

In other words it seems a little outrageous to claim that something is a lie when you have no evidence one way or the other to back up that claim. By the same token the user you quoted should be questioned as to why they think that this particular bug was reported on Lammania and ignored.

maddmatt70
04-03-2012, 11:29 AM
OP, I honestly do not think the bag bug is as big a deal as you put forth. Now I do think your points on exploits and future bugs happening with a greater frequency is very valid with this coming expansion. I was very disappointed with how Turbine has handled exploits since update 1. I do not have much optimism that they will do a good job of handling exploits come the expansion this summer. What I would like is some REAL ASSURANCES that this summer Turbine will do something when an exploit happens. Exploits should not get swept under the rug while the people that follow the rules get severly penalized. Turbine needs a real stated policy for the coming expansion regarding exploits and they need to follow that policy. So let's see something Turbine what do you got?

Moonsickle
04-03-2012, 11:42 AM
is a little tact in a response may have went a long way:

Dev response: We're sorry we've encounter a problem with bags containing BtC items... due to the fact that this issue is known but not gamebreaking at the moment, we can not dedicate resources to it immediately.

If we find the opportunity to correct this issue, we will attempt to do so ASAP.

thank you for your patience,

a Dev


BUT... no we get


we know there's a problem and F you... we'll fix it when we feel like it!!!!

as a response.


Think MajMalphunktion broke a cardinal rule of the forums:

Don't feed the Trolls!!!

Beethoven
04-03-2012, 12:01 PM
is a little tact in a response may have went a long way

So, what you are saying is they should have their marketing device three form letters along the lines:
* We are aware of <insert bug/issue>, are currently investigating and working on a resolution. We apologize for the inconvenience and assure you steps are taken to resolve the problem soon<tm>.
* We are aware of <insert bug/issue>, but currently have more pressing priorities. We apologize for the inconvenience and will investigate the matter as soon as our schedule allows.
* We are aware of <insert bug/issue>, but currently do not have any resources to deal with the matter and consequently cannot commit to a fix. We will post an update should this ever chance.

They then should use any of these three lines as automated message to respond to any issue. Under no circumstances should they ever allow their staff to respond directly and personally to the public as there always is a chance someone somehow could interpret it as lacking tact, offensive, too blunt or too aggressive. After all, there is a reason people who write commercials, corporate statements and political speeches are paid a lot of money for it.

We either want direct and open communicate with the development staff or we want automated messages that are obviously written by a marketing department.

I for one prefer open communication. No amount of flowery speech will change how QE (and potentially the developers) really feel about the bag code. It won't change what priority the fix has and it won't change when a fix will be coming. I find it refreshing to get a honest answer rather than the usual form letter that uses a lot of words to say exactly nothing.

Moonsickle
04-03-2012, 12:39 PM
If you didn't think there wasn't enough negativity on the forums already...

Maj's response was perfect then.


If this is going to be the method in which you respond to problems created by fixes, well then...
adding incentive to walk away from the game... will definitely make for a better playing experience I take it.


The bag issue doesn't seem like an issue to me... and I've got a bunch but I don't normally pass bags through my shared bank , so I'll not really notice it... but it seems for others, it impacts their gameplaying and I'm sure it's not the response they wanted to see... no matter how refreshing it is not being automated.

In Maj's response... it seems no fix for anything that's not an exploit/game-breaking is coming till after the expansion is released and then probably won't be dealt with until after 1st or 2nd major patch/hotfix for the expansion... so I'm sure that can't be good news for many.