Types of lag

[Aurora1979]

Hi guys,

I often hear about different types of lag, how some of it is my side some is turbines and "everyone" should know the differance...... But I dont.

Today and yesterday I've had some really bad lag.

I often have little lag spikes etc but Ive never had a major lag problem. Starting last night however I have been getting these spikes every few seconds and a spike everytime I do ANY type of action. When I have asked in group other people have said they lagged too but I tend to only ask on REEEEEALLY bad spikes.

Swap an item, use a clickie, open a door, throw a switch, summon a hireling.... basically any action other caused a spike.

I just logged in today and its even worse. I noticed my latency (I think this is important to watch?) was at 2900 odd..... I dont know if thats high but.... seems a high number. My loss was at 7%.... Im not sure what got lost but 7 out of every 100 of them are :)

Im just running a virus scan, and Ive done all the usual suspects, resetting my router rebooting my pc etc.

Couple of questions.

1. Which type of lag does this sound like?

2. What does the latency/ loss refer too, what numbers are "good" for these and how bad are my numbers above.

3. Defragging DDO, does this happen when I do a normal windows defrag? I seem to remember discussion a few years ago and have it in my head you need to defrag DDO seperate or something.

Thanks for the help.

P.S Im not on a "turbine your lag sux" rant.... genuine advice welcome.

[Culver.Civello]

Well, in my own lag experience (when it isn't just the game acting act for me), it tends to be mostly involving the temperature of my laptop. I'd imagine that it would effect a home computer in the same way. So, make sure your computer is getting a chance to cool off. Make sure the fan is working as it should. Make sure nothing is blocking it. It it is just hot in general in your house, try turning a box fan on and pointing toward your computer or getting the temperature to drop some somehow.

That is generally what I have trouble with. Someone else might offer some better advice. Just things to note I guess. :) Good luck.

[Aurora1979]

Well, in my own lag experience (when it isn't just the game acting act for me), it tends to be mostly involving the temperature of my laptop. I'd imagine that it would effect a home computer in the same way. So, make sure your computer is getting a chance to cool off. Make sure the fan is working as it should. Make sure nothing is blocking it. It it is just hot in general in your house, try turning a box fan on and pointing toward your computer or getting the temperature to drop some somehow.

That is generally what I have trouble with. Someone else might offer some better advice. Just things to note I guess. :) Good luck.

Thanks cul,

Ive had heat problems before. Im on a pc not a laptop but last year I had loads of hardware failtures and replaced graphics card, hard drives, disc drives, PSu and cooling unit.

The cooling unit I had before was a little block with a fan on top, The one I have now has a big car radiator with fins type tower on it with a big fan on the side, its actually about 4mm too big for my tower so the side cover is just lent against the tower :D

I have to dust it weekly but yea.... cooling *should* be ok.... I have a room fan thing though so Ill give that a go while Im here, wont do any harm.

[issiana]

your forgetting the all important.....

your pug member who got killed in a quest by doing something dumb and says... darn lag killed me :D (aka player brain lag ;))

[Sleepsalot]

Reset the Modem that feeds your Router also run a Speed test on your ISP Google will get you some thing near where you are. Also what OS you on??

Sleeps :D :) :D

[Vengeance777]

There are several types of lag, I'll try to list the ones i can think of and solutions to them.

Stat Lag, UMD Lag, Memory leak.

This is lag that occurs from the client recalculating skills or getting a memory leak from swapping toons/loading too much without restarting. Its most commonly experienced by users of the skill Use magic device but can happen with any skill or stat. This also happens when hit by a disjunction trap or spell as the client rolls to see if each piece of your equipment saved vs disjunction. This lag usually happens when you swap an item, use a spell that buffs a stat, or get hit by an effect that lowers a stat or skill. The DDO store Bunny hat is notorious for causing it whenever you swap in a scroll or wand.

This appears to be caused from a memory leak caused by playing the game for long periods of time without restarting, traveling through a lot of loading screens in a short period, or by swapping characters a lot.

Solution- Restart DDO.

Clientside/Network lag

This is lag caused by the data taking a long time to travel between client and server. The network icon will usually indicate when this is occurring if you hover the pointer over it by showing data loss percentage.

Solution- Multiple. Its usually client side if you are the only one in group experiencing it so troubleshoot your pc.
-Check for viruses, spyware, and adware.
-Use MSCONFIG to make sure no unwanted startup programs are running like Itunes that connect to the internet for updates.
-Make sure your internet browser is closed while playing.
-Don't download while playing, if you are using a file sharing program or bitorrent uninstall them as these are notorious for sharing files without the user knowing long after the users stopped using it.
-Ensure no one else in house is downloading
- Flush you DNS cache. Google it to find out how, it varies depending on operating system.
- Check to make sure Windows update is set to update at a time your not playing the game.

Instance Lag/Raid lag aka Lag Monster!!

This is the lag where everyone in your group freezes and is unable to move and cast spells, but the monsters still move around you attacking you and casting spells at you. Usually encountered in 12 man raids or quests where a lot of monsters spawn at once. The lag usually goes away immediately when the party dies.

Solution: Change instance. To do this have party recall from quest. Everyone drop group and reform. Go back into quest immediately. You are now in a new quest instance that is hopefully free of lag.

FPS Drop aka Graphics Lag

This is caused by your graphics being unable to render something correctly. A lot of players experience this in Shadowcrypt, The Subteraane, and Abbot Raid. Shadocrypt and Sub's lag is caused by shadows rendering. The abbots is caused by a particle effect that happens when the Abbot is hit in melee. To test if you have the Abbot version of this lag you can hit a breakable statue in Repossession or Partycrashers. If your fps drops when the statue explodes you have it.


Solution: Most of this can be fixed by adjusting your graphics under options. DDO defaults to Detect Optimal Settings which doesn't work great on Laptops and some pcs. Change this to medium to start and then adjust up or down in quality till you find a setting that works great for you.

For shadowcrypt and Subteraane disabling landscape shadows should fix this lag immediately. For the abbot version its tricky. Swapping between Direct x 9, 10, or 11 sometimes helps the fps drop but nothing seems to cure it even moving all graphics to very low.:(

[Aurora1979]

Reset the Modem that feeds your Router also run a Speed test on your ISP Google will get you some thing near where you are. Also what OS you on??

Sleeps :D :) :D

Thanks mate,

Ok, so I went to a browser based speed test, its Virgin same as my ISP.

I ran the test twice and got way different result.....

#1 DL= 27.3 Mb/s UL= 1.643 Mb/s

Then

#2 DL= 1.80 Mb/S UL= 0.793

:O That doesnt seem very good to me. The first test took... maybe 30 seconds. 2nd time it was 10 secs max....

Im using Vista home premium at the moment.

Re-formatted it the other week as I spilt squash on my HD... lol, long story.....

Im not sure what you mean by the modem though.... I have a virgin media box, I reset that, and I restarted the connection on my computer but that box is just conntected to the line that comes out of the wall..... I used installation guys :D

It is a cable connection though... you know, my telephone line is seperate, the T.V and internet come in from a line in the garden.

[Sleepsalot]

Ya that second Test was bad.. May be time to call the ISP and complain like mad have them send s Tech out to replace their Box. I'm on Game if you want to voice chat be better then me typing it all out lol..
Sleeps :D :) :D


Thanks mate,

Ok, so I went to a browser based speed test, its Virgin same as my ISP.

I ran the test twice and got way different result.....

#1 DL= 27.3 Mb/s UL= 1.643 Mb/s

Then

#2 DL= 1.80 Mb/S UL= 0.793

:O That doesnt seem very good to me. The first test took... maybe 30 seconds. 2nd time it was 10 secs max....

Im using Vista home premium at the moment.

Re-formatted it the other week as I spilt squash on my HD... lol, long story.....

Im not sure what you mean by the modem though.... I have a virgin media box, I reset that, and I restarted the connection on my computer but that box is just conntected to the line that comes out of the wall..... I used installation guys :D

It is a cable connection though... you know, my telephone line is seperate, the T.V and internet come in from a line in the garden.

[Aurora1979]

There are several types of lag, I'll try to list the ones i can think of and solutions to them.

(

Thanks Vengeance, Thats a very informative post. Ill have another read through in a sec.

My graphics settings should be ok. They were ok a few days ago. and are not at max setting. I could probably run higher then I do but I put everything quite low for proformance anyway.

I know I was typing my speed test reply to sleeps as you were typing yours... That deffinatly looks like I have a problem on my line.

[Frotz]

Just since no one addressed some of the original questions:

Latency is how long it takes a packet of information to get from the server to you, measured in milliseconds (1000ms = 1s). The loss rate is also for the packets lost along the way.

Anyway, any loss isn't good, although some is tolerable, and waiting nearly three seconds for the packets to get back and forth is very bad. You might want to download WinMTR and do a trace to gls.ddo.com to see exactly who it is that's giving you problems. If everything on the route from you to Turbine is losing packets and high latency then it's you. :) If it's someone past your ISP then you can hope your ISP can complain to them about the problem.

[Sleepsalot]

Well we chatted by PM I did cover it but still good info ..
Sleeps :D :) :D


Just since no one addressed some of the original questions:

Latency is how long it takes a packet of information to get from the server to you, measured in milliseconds (1000ms = 1s). The loss rate is also for the packets lost along the way.

Anyway, any loss isn't good, although some is tolerable, and waiting nearly three seconds for the packets to get back and forth is very bad. You might want to download WinMTR and do a trace to gls.ddo.com to see exactly who it is that's giving you problems. If everything on the route from you to Turbine is losing packets and high latency then it's you. :) If it's someone past your ISP then you can hope your ISP can complain to them about the problem.

[whitehawk74]

Well thanks to Turbine for not letting me go straight to House C from the ship I have been getting 'step step' lag. I look down and see my harddrive light going nuts. It's swapping out memory basically. I have 4 gig and then I find that i have 900meg left. I have been getting a lot more than usual crashes too.

Usually I get no lag at all, but when I do get it I know that everyone is getting it.
I think most of the lag is caused at our end. I have turned off Stencil Shadows. That seems to be a big problem for my video card. It's really new but doesnt like it.

Defragging Windows wont really help all that much. The Windows Defrag utilityh is useless. I would go with either Defraggler or MyDefrag.
The DDO Defragger you mention I did use a little while back but havent since update 11. I heard it was really not safe to use now.
I will be buying another 4 gig of ram really soon, but I only need it for this game :/

append: Im in Australia and my latency goes from 250 to 300.

[testing1234]

For the abbot version its tricky. Swapping between Direct x 9, 10, or 11 sometimes helps the fps drop but nothing seems to cure it even moving all graphics to very low.:(

thanks for the info so hard to troubleshoot raid lagg as you need to wait 3 days to test your new settings

[...v...]

Yeah the good old DDO lag, it's been around for a long time. Turbine is horrible for not addressing this issue for over 4 years now. Can't imagine who would buy their expansion for $80 when they can't even iron out the bugs in the current game. Kids stop eating corn brand and start eating frosted flakes.

[Sleepsalot]

I'm running a old 2.4 P-4 with 2gb memory 64mb on-board Graphics I keep Google Chrome up with 5-7 pages opened all the time and still only using 1.3gb memory. I keep graphics at Min levels and don't use DM sound.

It sounds like you may have some type of mal-ware running if you have 4gb mem and only 900mb left. Hard to say though not being there to see how you are set up Though..

Sleeps :D :) :D

Well thanks to Turbine for not letting me go straight to House C from the ship I have been getting 'step step' lag. I look down and see my harddrive light going nuts. It's swapping out memory basically. I have 4 gig and then I find that i have 900meg left. I have been getting a lot more than usual crashes too.

Usually I get no lag at all, but when I do get it I know that everyone is getting it.
I think most of the lag is caused at our end. I have turned off Stencil Shadows. That seems to be a big problem for my video card. It's really new but doesnt like it.

Defragging Windows wont really help all that much. The Windows Defrag utilityh is useless. I would go with either Defraggler or MyDefrag.
The DDO Defragger you mention I did use a little while back but havent since update 11. I heard it was really not safe to use now.
I will be buying another 4 gig of ram really soon, but I only need it for this game :/

append: Im in Australia and my latency goes from 250 to 300.

[Astraghal]

My physical lag is from being based in Perth Western Australia, the most geographically isolated city in the world. My latency shows up as ~340ms, which makes it almost impossible to visually judge any type of 'mario sequence', like time-dodging intermittent effects like traps or air jets.

I cannot reliably respond to the environment based on visual cues, judging by what is happening on my screen, due to the time differential between client and server, which can vary from as little as 340ms (according to the programs which provide the theoretical estimates), to as much as 1000+ ms, which is probably a more realistic timeframe. This is why I am opposed to things like the Abbot tile puzzle and reading 'tells' from raid bosses like Lord of Blades, to avoid outright failure or instant death, in games which are trying to attract a global following, such as DDO.

If anyone has tried playing a first person shooter, from say Australia, on a server in a country like say Brazil, will realise that the actual time difference between something you do on your end (fire a rocket at someone else, for example) and observing the effects of that action (once it has occurred on the server, the rocket having left your rocket launcher, hit someone else and that information has been processed, then come back to you as a confirmed hit being displayed on your screen), can easily be 1-2 seconds in duration.

That said, it is quite possible when playing such games that rely on constant positional updates, to get in 'the zone' and play quite effectively purely on prediction and timing, it's just extremely frustrating to get confident in doing that and makes recovering from a misjudgement quite difficult.

Edit: The lag we have been all experiencing since the last (most?) update(s), is completely different, server-side lag, because even people in other groups who I'm in contact with via channels, have all been experiencing this lag simultaneously.

[Zenthalas]

Yeah the good old DDO lag, it's been around for a long time. Turbine is horrible for not addressing this issue for over 4 years now. Can't imagine who would buy their expansion for $80 when they can't even iron out the bugs in the current game. Kids stop eating corn brand and start eating frosted flakes.

Pay no attention to the WoW troll. Move it along.

[KingKoz]

You might want to check a couple other things for your lag issues. How much room (HD space) do you have on your boot drive and/or the game drive? I recently had a similar lag issue and it turned out that I was down to 9GB's of hd space left on my boot hd. This was causing the game to use the swap drive (hard drive acts like memory basically) and is notoriously slow as hell!. If you are low on hd space, go through it and uninstall any unused/unwanted programs or increase the size of the boot partition (what I had to do). Another option you might want to check is if you are being hit with a DOS attack. (probably not the case) Google for a "packet reader" and look at the incoming packets to see what your system is receiving. It should be very apparent if you are being attacked. Lastly, try turning ALL your graphic settings to disabled or off, then start increasing them 1 or 2 at a time. Even though I have a DX11 graphics card, I turn off (or disable) all shadows. (seems to help alot) I also set "Frill Distance" to LOW. If you play with the DDO Adv Graphics settings you should be able to eliminate most of the game caused lag.

[Kinerd]

3. Defragging DDO, does this happen when I do a normal windows defrag? I seem to remember discussion a few years ago and have it in my head you need to defrag DDO seperate or something.Very briefly, there was a DDO Dat Defrag tool that reduced fragmentation within .dat files. Because Turbine as an organization does not care very much about DDO lag, this tool was intentionally broken and abandoned. From what I remember, you can still monkey around with the LOTRO version and make it work on DDO.

[Hollowgolem]

If you're getting lag, type /loc, and see if you're in i2049/i2050. Those are shared with some crafting hall instances, and make for awesome lag in places like Abbot and Dreaming Dark.

Had one in the pre-raid entrance area to ToD as well, lately. But that doesn't make actually running the raid laggier.

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

I'm usually getting only lag when I'm just logged into a place - and everything just loads/appears.

In rare cases I have lag when there are too many people in a certain area.

However, I just can't use the in-game DDO shop for long, because after 5 minutes after closing it I get a yellow connection issues sign, being followed by a red one after a few minutes as well, and after that the "connection to the server is lost" message. I can bet on that.

That's why I can't use the Wiki during playing for a long time as well.

[UltraMonk2]

My physical lag is from being based in Perth Western Australia, the most geographically isolated city in the world. My latency shows up as ~340ms, which makes it almost impossible to visually judge any type of 'mario sequence', like time-dodging intermittent effects like traps or air jets.

How odd, I'm in Perth as well, connected to iiNet. Even though my latency is about the same I don't seem to have the same trouble judging or doing the time based stuff.

[Astraghal]

How odd, I'm in Perth as well, connected to iiNet. Even though my latency is about the same I don't seem to have the same trouble judging or doing the time based stuff.

I guess I'm just a terrible player then..