Druid Rez spell: Reincarnate

[artistx]

looking at the spell list the closest thing they have to a rez spell is http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Reincarnate do you think they will try and add it? or just use the same rez spells from clerics/FS?

[Uska]

As common as death is and as great an effect that reincarnate would have on characters I cant see them adding it

[Lonnbeimnech]

As common as death is and as great an effect that reincarnate would have on characters I cant see them adding it

Like a ftp getting turned into a horc and then not being able to log into his character until he buys the race.

[jwdaniels]

If it were me, I would not give them a rez spell at all. Regular ressurection has traditionally been the purview of clerics (and favored souls) and keeping that from druids will help preserve the distinction between the classes.

As far as reincarnation, that would probably be far more of a pain in the ass than it's worth to implement properly - changing races = changing stats, appearance, possible equipment issues (going to halfling from warforged and being suddenly naked) - and I don't see that as being worth it. If you're going to implement it half-assed (like make it a rez or give 4 generic options for your temporary new body) then there's no real point to it at all anyway.

[Solmage]

Reincarnate:

You get rezzed but you now have the stats (and ideally, the appearance) of a fluffy bunny until you slowly morph back into whatever you used to be. :)

[Diesastrum]

They could just have the reincarnated person come back a wolf or bear or anyother animal that druids can shape change into (since the animation to swap back to normal and the animal forms will be in game already) for 30 secs to 1 minute.

[Wickednisse]

If it were me, I would not give them a rez spell at all. Regular ressurection has traditionally been the purview of clerics (and favored souls) and keeping that from druids will help preserve the distinction between the classes.

As far as reincarnation, that would probably be far more of a pain in the ass than it's worth to implement properly - changing races = changing stats, appearance, possible equipment issues (going to halfling from warforged and being suddenly naked) - and I don't see that as being worth it. If you're going to implement it half-assed (like make it a rez or give 4 generic options for your temporary new body) then there's no real point to it at all anyway.

And if they don't give druids a resurrection spell then there would be little to no demand for healing druids.

[decease]

there is just no way they gonna do that.. i mean by rule that spell is nasty. after you cast it you have no clue which form your companion will return as, i mean the tank in team could return as a rabbit =P and would you expect a rabbit tank lotb? XD or maybe have several hen healing the rabbit? looooooooool

[Uska]

If it were me, I would not give them a rez spell at all. Regular ressurection has traditionally been the purview of clerics (and favored souls) and keeping that from druids will help preserve the distinction between the classes.

As far as reincarnation, that would probably be far more of a pain in the ass than it's worth to implement properly - changing races = changing stats, appearance, possible equipment issues (going to halfling from warforged and being suddenly naked) - and I don't see that as being worth it. If you're going to implement it half-assed (like make it a rez or give 4 generic options for your temporary new body) then there's no real point to it at all anyway.

I Agree no Rez for Druids

[Havok.cry]

They only way I could see them implementing it, is if it is a temporary race change. I would hope that warforged would be immune to the race change (and possibly the spell entirely) and no one could change into warforged, this would be to prevent the spell from causing equipment issues.

That being said I wouldn't mind much If I was not stuck in a healer role because I can't res... I dislike healing (reluctantly willing when I need to, but not something I like to do)

[decease]

I Agree no Rez for Druids

disagree...druid need a res spell... so either implement this... or give us the regular one =P

[Habreno]

Just give them Resurrect alone at level 9 spell.

[Emili]

And if they don't give druids a resurrection spell then there would be little to no demand for healing druids.
Fact be I've only ever seen reincarnate used once in DnD and was not a pretty sight.

Why? My fighter, my bards, ... rogue can res, even my Barb can res... mind you some are clickied but bringing people back from the dead is quite easily done from many classes.

At x4 skill points I'd imagine many a druid may get adequate UmD ... even at a cross class (11) skill is not that difficult to turn into an adequate chance on a res scroll, so many pallys do so.

Druidical class power in DnD is not so much a healer although they may.

[Warinx]

When you get to the power of lvl 9 spells, being able to cast a lvl 5 spell like raise dead is easily done through Miracle / Wish for any spell caster of that level.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Like a ftp getting turned into a horc and then not being able to log into his character until he buys the race.

This would be hilarious.

I'd like to see a True Reincarnation spell at level 9 with some very expensive material components (15 epic dungeon tokens?) to reduce the cost of TR'ing and to create a new market, I'm sure that would make the class sell.

I think either having Reincarnate bring back an ally as an animal temporarily (wears off after death penalties expire) and/or allowing it to be hastened by a polymorph other spell (though this might add polymorph sickness to the list of ailments). Druids of course should be able to return to their original form normally, any other class with a shape change ability too (pale masters, maybe savants if they get elemental forms?).

[testing1234]

how cool would it be to be able to reincarnate a TR into his last life instead of his current, need a cleric just ask team anyone have a past life cleric?
a completionist druid could convert himself to any of his past lives so awesome and OP

but yeah equipment and trouble implementing it way to much bother just a fun idea to play with im not to serious more of someting would work pnp but not in a mmo

[Uska]

how cool would it be to be able to reincarnate a TR into his last life instead of his current, need a cleric just ask team anyone have a past life cleric?
a completionist druid could convert himself to any of his past lives so awesome and OP

but yeah equipment and trouble implementing it way to much bother just a fun idea to play with im not to serious more of someting would work pnp but not in a mmo

the druid reincarnate spell wouldnt work that way the spell reincarnates them into a random race or creature if that creature is capable of being a certain class then they can gain levels as that class.

[BigSlugger]

What I would like to see is the spell reincarnate you into a kobold for temporary period of time. During which you complain bitterly about how this job sucks and you weren't supposed to be here today.

[xSeverinax]

I really don't get this whole fuss over druids. AD&D druids really are not that great. Severely limited in armor and weapons, unable to travel far from the region they guard, limited spells - certainly in pnp they are not main healers though yes they can heal. They are supposed to be true nuetral, and if alignments were enacted properly in DDO, they would not take sides in a conflict unless one side over balanced the other - this means that a druid could actually join the opposing mobs if he felt that the powers of good were getting to powerful and out of balance. Can you imagine that - one of the people in your pug group turning against the group and being able to hurt or even kill party members....

[decease]

I really don't get this whole fuss over druids. AD&D druids really are not that great. Severely limited in armor and weapons, unable to travel far from the region they guard, limited spells - certainly in pnp they are not main healers though yes they can heal. They are supposed to be true nuetral, and if alignments were enacted properly in DDO, they would not take sides in a conflict unless one side over balanced the other - this means that a druid could actually join the opposing mobs if he felt that the powers of good were getting to powerful and out of balance. Can you imagine that - one of the people in your pug group turning against the group and being able to hurt or even kill party members....

true.. but in ddo it is all different.. i mean if you check all the btp class/race they are all superior then f2p ones. just look at horc, helf, wf.. then look at monk, fvs, artificer.. so likely druid will be all mighty when it first release =P

[Jsbeer]

true.. but in ddo it is all different.. i mean if you check all the btp class/race they are all superior then f2p ones. just look at horc, helf, wf.. then look at monk, fvs, artificer.. so likely druid will be all mighty when it first release =P


Not quite sure I agree with this. Human PM is still one of, if not THE strongest race/class combination, with the only real competition being Human or WF FvS. Also a pure Human Cleric is very powerful too. Finally, a free-to-play Dwarf (or even Human) barbarian is an excellent melee as while a Half-Orc may give more DPS, they are noticeably less sturdy.

Although for melees, if you are interested in pure DPS and nothing else, Half-Orc and Half-Elves are the best choices.

[AbyssalMage]

true.. but in ddo it is all different.. i mean if you check all the btp class/race they are all superior then f2p ones. just look at horc, helf, wf.. then look at monk, fvs, artificer.. so likely druid will be all mighty when it first release =P

Hmmm.....I think that is a little too general of a statement. I.e. You are incorrect

As far as Druid being too powerful or not...? I asked the same question because it was quite a pathetic class in the pnp group I joined and nothing I read in the base AD&D and D&D 3.0 rules has offered anything different.

To add Resurrection or Reincarnation...? Reincarnation most definitely. Although in v1.0 they need to keep it simple (Bear, Wolf, Giant Rat, what ever "natural" animals Druids can shape change into on release) and have the effect wear off after a certain amount of time/shrine/log. Once they have time to revisit it (i.e. after release and they can spend time fine tuning it through multiple updates), I could see it permanently change a players class/race until they did an appropriate level quest/challenge (solo of course). But of course that would be v4.0 or better :)

[decease]

Not quite sure I agree with this. Human PM is still one of, if not THE strongest race/class combination, with the only real competition being Human or WF FvS. Also a pure Human Cleric is very powerful too. Finally, a free-to-play Dwarf (or even Human) barbarian is an excellent melee as while a Half-Orc may give more DPS, they are noticeably less sturdy.

Although for melees, if you are interested in pure DPS and nothing else, Half-Orc and Half-Elves are the best choices.

i have a different opinion.. if you look at it, wizzard class have several bonus feat, which is more likely way more then needed. if not one extra feat will not make a huge different among so many feat wizzard acquire.

as for skill point wise, wizzard is pure int base casting class.. one extra skill point seem weight very less if not none.

skill point and feat and the only two bonus human have, but if you look at half elf. you could get more umd from artificer dil, more hp from barb dil, more save from pal dil..personally i find these weight more then human bonus, plus you have access to elven sr enhancement.



Hmmm.....I think that is a little too general of a statement. I.e. You are incorrect

As far as Druid being too powerful or not...? I asked the same question because it was quite a pathetic class in the pnp group I joined and nothing I read in the base AD&D and D&D 3.0 rules has offered anything different.

To add Resurrection or Reincarnation...? Reincarnation most definitely. Although in v1.0 they need to keep it simple (Bear, Wolf, Giant Rat, what ever "natural" animals Druids can shape change into on release) and have the effect wear off after a certain amount of time/shrine/log. Once they have time to revisit it (i.e. after release and they can spend time fine tuning it through multiple updates), I could see it permanently change a players class/race until they did an appropriate level quest/challenge (solo of course). But of course that would be v4.0 or better :)

it is not about druid, it is about all buy to play class. druid will be slightly stronger then free class, but am sure people will accept it, as they always has.

[Crann]

there is just no way they gonna do that.. i mean by rule that spell is nasty. after you cast it you have no clue which form your companion will return as, i mean the tank in team could return as a rabbit =P and would you expect a rabbit tank lotb? XD or maybe have several hen healing the rabbit? looooooooool

/signed for Killer Rabbit Tanks

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=monty+python+rabbit&view=detail&id=DBCC5C43ED9220CB578ACF762B8736035CC60288&first=61&FORM=IDFRIR


Look at the Bones!

[Silverleafeon]

there is just no way they gonna do that.. i mean by rule that spell is nasty. after you cast it you have no clue which form your companion will return as, i mean the tank in team could return as a rabbit =P and would you expect a rabbit tank lotb? XD or maybe have several hen healing the rabbit? looooooooool

Lol that would be funny having it work like resurrect, but with the resurrected character having the same stat and a new temporary skin.

[Aesop]

I can't believe people actually said druid isn't that great....

Its a full caster class with better offense than other divines and better buffs ... than either divine or arcane. They have alternate forms which give them major battle melee benefits and a built in off tank (ie Animal Companion). They can gain allies by Awakening trees and animals (probably not in DDO but in pnp).

Armor is limited to non metallic... Dragon Scale isn't metal... and armor isn't the only way to gain AC... remember Wis caster and monk. Can you say Kung Fu Panda?

Better Skill Points than any other full caster.

I mean what else do people want? I got banned from playing Druids after one game... then again I got banned from playing an archer also after different game. Though I think I succeeded in convincing the group that the third party book they wanted to use was a bad idea with the archer. Druid was straight WotC.

Aesop

[Crann]

I can't believe people actually said druid isn't that great....

I think quickened Heals for self and others in addition to solid DPS spells is pretty great, even without the Wildshape thing.

[THOTHdha]

if you look at half elf. you could get more umd from artificer dil You could, but you can already hit the needed UMD without this., more hp from barb dil So for a feet and 3 AP you can get 20 HP, or for a feet you can get 23 HP. How is this better than the human bonus feet?, more save from pal dil With Insightful Reflexes, their saves really aren't lacking...personally i find these weight more then human bonus, plus you have access to elven sr enhancement. No, Half Elves do not get that.

Responses in Red.

Also, Druids are pretty fantastic casters in 3.5. Their other abilities are more of small extra perks. I have no idea what they were like in AD&D, but they are pretty overpowered in third edition.

[Dagolar]

Druids in pnp had the following specializations:
1: Best Elemental spellcasting
2: Best Elemental summoning
3: Best (pure) core class melee-caster abilities.
4: Shapeshifting
5: Mastery over plants and animals

In addition, Druids also had access to a variety of support spells and healing spells, but they were never near as good at healing as other healer classes, having a much stricter and weaker selection of healing abilities (though, they have access to some very good berries.)

Druids are, and always have been, an extremely potent class, as long as you play to their strengths.
I'm hoping DDO'll keep that full selection, along with the limitations that balance them.

[decease]

Responses in Red.

Also, Druids are pretty fantastic casters in 3.5. Their other abilities are more of small extra perks. I have no idea what they were like in AD&D, but they are pretty overpowered in third edition.

oh well, i do see you point.. thought personally i would still go with half elf.. =)

[Cardoor]

Reincarnate makes you left handed:


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/5e/Lizard_Man_%28D%26D%29.JPG/200px-Lizard_Man_%28D%26D%29.JPG

[psteen1]

It would be more feasible to reincarnate a dead enemy, and have them serve you as a summoned monster. I think wishing that you could reincarnate a party member is a pipe dream.

[SisAmethyst]

Like a ftp getting turned into a horc and then not being able to log into his character until he buys the race.

As from the link provided "...A reincarnated creature recalls the majority of its former life and form. It retains any class abilities, feats, or skill ranks it formerly possessed. Its class, base attack bonus, base save bonuses, and hit points are unchanged..."

And further "...A wish or a miracle spell can restore a reincarnated character to his or her original form..."

So except of modified CON/STR/DEX and the race everything else stay unchanged and always the option to get back somehow. Even if this would be implemented, this change of form and stats would then be most likely only temporary. Meaning a relog of the character would work like a wish/miracle spell just like we heal to full health after reconnecting.

But I guess the easiest way would be to do it like it was done in Baldurs Gate by implementing something like "Harper's Call" which is similar to "Raise Dead" of a priest, but the Druid need to sacrifice some of its own HP for this spell. Or using a house rule to give Druids the regular "Raise Dead" just 1/2 levels after the Cleric/FvS get it or apply it with a very long casting time (which the Reincarnation spell has by the way as well).

So my guess: They most likely will get some form to raise a dead character, but I wouldn't be surprised if till then comes in form of a enhancement clicky like the Undying Call (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhancement:Undying_Call).

[Thrudh]

And if they don't give druids a resurrection spell then there would be little to no demand for healing druids.

Druids can't use raise dead clickables or use scrolls? MY bard is a healing bard, there's demand for him, and he can't cast resurrection.

[fool101]

Give me your True Hearts of Wood and I will cast reincarnate on you.

Good Luck

[Falco_Easts]

Sure, throw in reincarnation. Make it so you are runed into a basic animal form wolf, bear etc... until you rest at a shrine. No special abilities, spells etc can be used except basic animal attacks.

Better then a soul stone but not as good as a rez.

[Kyrgan]

And as if by magic, Falco's post materializes as I am writing the following... >.<



Reincarnate makes you left handed:


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/5e/Lizard_Man_%28D%26D%29.JPG/200px-Lizard_Man_%28D%26D%29.JPG

Lol. Ala Phoebus - was that Arneson's or Gygax?

Possible solution to question of re-incarnate:

Dead party member is reincarnated into one of a limited number of semi-useful predators. A temp skill bar is implemented. Yes it will be awkward, but if you are brought into the body of, say, a wolf from being a bi-ped it would be a bit awkward! This effect lasts til you either get to a rez shrine or exit and re-enter the quest/dungeon.

I would say that it would be prudent to give the re-incarnate the same AC and 2-3 useful skills to blunder along with until they reach said rez-shrine.

If you are a bear - your get bite and claw; wolf - two different bite attacks; cougar - bite and claw; etc. It could be enough to help u get through and still assist the party in a limited capacity, but not enough to make it desirable. If you were a caster and you died, well, you will just have to wait to get to that rez shrine.

Gear? No clue, it is fantasy roleplay, maybe it is mystically reshaped into the essence of your new form until you get to the rez shrine.

Just my two cents.

[Drakos]

looking at the spell list the closest thing they have to a rez spell is http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Reincarnate do you think they will try and add it? or just use the same rez spells from clerics/FS?
I certainly don't think they will add it. Since the spell makes you randomly roll for your reincarnated race it would be bad news, and has potential for greifing unless the receiving party is given ar "Are you sure... This will likely make you a different race chosen at random" followed by a "ARE YOU REALLY SURE!!!!!" screen.

Also it has some monster races possible, which means They would have to add and test all those potential races as well.

[Vellrad]

I bet there will be just random de(buff) added for 1-5 minutes after coming back to life, giving +2/-2 to +4/-4 in some physical stats.


I really don't get this whole fuss over druids. AD&D druids really are not that great. Severely limited in armor and weapons, unable to travel far from the region they guard, limited spells - certainly in pnp they are not main healers though yes they can heal. They are supposed to be true nuetral, and if alignments were enacted properly in DDO, they would not take sides in a conflict unless one side over balanced the other - this means that a druid could actually join the opposing mobs if he felt that the powers of good were getting to powerful and out of balance. Can you imagine that - one of the people in your pug group turning against the group and being able to hurt or even kill party members....

Fortunately, DDO is based on 3rd edition rues :)

[bigolbear]

there is just no way they gonna do that.. i mean by rule that spell is nasty. after you cast it you have no clue which form your companion will return as, i mean the tank in team could return as a rabbit =P and would you expect a rabbit tank lotb? XD or maybe have several hen healing the rabbit? looooooooool

We'll have no vorpal bunnies here sir! or chickens for that matter, it smacks of FOUL SORCERY!

[Vellrad]

We'll have no vorpal bunnies here sir! or chickens for that matter, it smacks of FOUL SORCERY!

By the way, any chance druids getting 'summon cow' spell?

[Antheal]

Maybe just give them Raise Dead and leave it at that.

[danzig138]

Fact be I've only ever seen reincarnate used once in DnD and was not a pretty sight.


Really? My group loved reincarnate. It was the go-to back from the dead spell for them if it was available.

[vermentto]

I really don't get this whole fuss over druids. AD&D druids really are not that great. Severely limited in armor and weapons, unable to travel far from the region they guard, limited spells - certainly in pnp they are not main healers though yes they can heal. They are supposed to be true nuetral, and if alignments were enacted properly in DDO, they would not take sides in a conflict unless one side over balanced the other - this means that a druid could actually join the opposing mobs if he felt that the powers of good were getting to powerful and out of balance. Can you imagine that - one of the people in your pug group turning against the group and being able to hurt or even kill party members....

In fact , to be honest , in PnP druids are gimps and the first choice of noobs and kevins.
The same noobs who tend to "forget" that their items merged in animal form , cant wilshape in animals they never saw ,or that they cant cast ,etc.

Wizards and clerics have miracle and wish , 2 spells that make them the best crafters and the best spellcasters by far.
Comparing druids to them is an insult (and a proof of solid lack of understanding of game mechanisms )

[axan]

I really hope they dont give Druids a rez spell as i dont want them to become a primary healer class, they are so much more than that, i always played mine a more a dps caster that who could bring elemental forms out for other roles boss fights etc, yes druids can heal but lore wise they cant rez and reincarnate if im[plemented should not be a straight forward rez spell maybe a temp rez back as an animal for 5 mins they they die or something simialr but not a rez spell.

[MrkGrismer]

I really hope they dont give Druids a rez spell as i dont want them to become a primary healer class, they are so much more than that, i always played mine a more a dps caster that who could bring elemental forms out for other roles boss fights etc, yes druids can heal but lore wise they cant rez and reincarnate if im[plemented should not be a straight forward rez spell maybe a temp rez back as an animal for 5 mins they they die or something simialr but not a rez spell.

There are some revive spells in the spell compendium that let a dead character get back up and re-enter the fight for a limited time, but at the end of the duration the character returns to being dead. I think those spells for a druid would be a hoot.

[muffinlad]

1) A healing class in this game needs Raise Dead, due to the frequent amount of dying.

2) Having them come back as a Kobold for 2 min is an awesome idea. No change in stats, just a funny look, would be classic.

3) Being able to "summon" via a reincarnation (one at a time) is an interesting idea as well (get one of four follower types that last 10 min).

Regards,

muffinarchdruid

[xSeverinax]

Fortunately, DDO is based on 3rd edition rues :)

I only ever played first and second edition so there must have been some major changes to the class. I don't know a single player who has ever used one in any of the groups I have played in. I guess it comes down to the style of game you played though.

1st Goodberry(PH p237) – 2d4 berries each cure 1 hp (max 8 hp per 24 hours). This is good healing? 2 - 8 hit points per day?

[Vellrad]

I only ever played first and second edition so there must have been some major changes to the class. I don't know a single player who has ever used one in any of the groups I have played in. I guess it comes down to the style of game you played though.

1st Goodberry(PH p237) – 2d4 berries each cure 1 hp (max 8 hp per 24 hours). This is good healing? 2 - 8 hit points per day?

Now goodberries can be stored longer ;)
Anyway, when I was playing with druid in team, everyone had at least 1 all the time, we treated it like a single use non-fail first aid ;)

[Tom_Hunters]

Got killed by a kobold? you gotta wear the bunny of shame for the rest of the quest


Reincarnate:

You get rezzed but you now have the stats (and ideally, the appearance) of a fluffy bunny until you slowly morph back into whatever you used to be. :)

[ShadowFlash]

In fact , to be honest , in PnP druids are gimps and the first choice of noobs and kevins.
The same noobs who tend to "forget" that their items merged in animal form , cant wilshape in animals they never saw ,or that they cant cast ,etc.

Wizards and clerics have miracle and wish , 2 spells that make them the best crafters and the best spellcasters by far.
Comparing druids to them is an insult (and a proof of solid lack of understanding of game mechanisms )

Agreed...kinda, I loved druids..clerics were better...but, of course, there is one deciding factor...

Cleric Domains...period.

Without cleric domains, yes, druids will be the best offensive divine caster. Normally, a cleric could specialize in the correct domain, and gain whatever arcane, melee, or utility features they wanted. In DDO, no such option exists...and probablly never will. Of course in DDO, with items counting towards spell levels available, clerics are already horribly handicapped. Everyone rags on bad "battle-clerics", but if this were true DnD, FvS's would be horribly gimped casters, but divine melee specialists (having no way to maintain BOTH level 9 spells AND a decent DC).

TL : DR....DDO has entirely different definitions of base DnD lore....normal rules do NOT apply

ShadowFlash

[Aashrym]

Last Breath (CDiv p167)
Druid 4 (Necromancy)

It's similar to raise dead but the caster takes d4 damage per HD of the person raised.

[SisAmethyst]

I really hope they dont give Druids a rez spell as i dont want them to become a primary healer class, they are so much more than that, i always played mine a more a dps caster that who could bring elemental forms out for other roles boss fights etc, yes druids can heal but lore wise they cant rez and reincarnate if im[plemented should not be a straight forward rez spell maybe a temp rez back as an animal for 5 mins they they die or something simialr but not a rez spell.

How does a rez spell make a class a primary healer? Even a monk can get an ability via Enhancements to rez players and yet he is far from being a primary healer, nor do I think that a FvS is on. Not to mention that if you need a rez the primary healing seem to have lacked somehow ;)

Look at the Artificer. They can disable a trap, but they are not a primary traps smith, especialy as they miss evasion to deal with the hotest traps. Its the choice of the player how he will spec and play his characters like a Sorcerer can choose between fire and ice, and I am pretty sure with all the shape shifting and elemental spells the players will play a Druid 99% of the time as something else then a heal bot.

So yes I DO hope they get a spell like ability to rez players, especially as the Ring of the Ancestors (http://ddowiki.com/page/Ring_of_the_Ancestors) needs you to be good while a Druid will be probably true neutral and thus prohibit this clicky. It is a convinience in this game to be able to rez in one form or the other.