34 Point Melee Cleric Build - Please Critique

[axel15810]

Concept is a cleric who is good at melee while also being plenty capable of healing parties/end game raids. Giving up offensive spell casting. Please let me know if you have any suggestions, thanks!


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Neutral Good Dwarf Male
(2 Fighter \ 18 Cleric)
Hit Points: 286
Spell Points: 1118
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 18
Reflex: 6
Will: 15

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(34 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 18 25
Dexterity 8 10
Constitution 16 18
Intelligence 8 10
Wisdom 16 18
Charisma 8 10

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance -1 4
Bluff -1 0
Concentration 3 4
Diplomacy -1 0
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle -1 0
Heal 3 4
Hide -1 0
Intimidate -1 0
Jump 4 7
Listen 3 4
Move Silently -1 0
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 0
Search -1 2
Spot 3 4
Swim 4 7
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Cleric)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 4 (Cleric)


Level 5 (Cleric)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 7 (Cleric)


Level 8 (Cleric)


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 10 (Cleric)


Level 11 (Cleric)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Cleric)


Level 14 (Cleric)


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 16 (Cleric)


Level 17 (Cleric)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 19 (Cleric)


Level 20 (Cleric)




Thought about a 19/1 build but I think 2 levels of fighter is needed so I can take the entire THF line. Thought hard about Horc but I'm thinking Dwarf for better survivability. Also don't like losing to hit through Horc power attack enhancements that reduce to hit on a low STR melee toon. Also I'm not planning on using divine might, I don't think it is worth it. Let me know if I'm wrong.

All ability points into STR (not sure why it didn't show up on build sreen)

Skill points will be evenly distributed between Concentration and Balance.

Enhancements list (what I'm thinking about so far, not all inclusive) -

Radiant Servant 1 and 2
Life Magic 1-4
PoL 1
PoIL 1
Energy of Zealot 1-3
Cleric Wisdom 1-2
Heal 1-2
Wand/Scroll Mast 1-2
Extra turning 1
Improved turning 1
DV 1
Unyielding Sovereignty
Follower of the Sovereign Host

Fighter Haste Boost 1
Fighter Toughness 1

Dwarven Axe Damage 1 and 2
Dwarven Axe Attack 1 and 2
Dwarven CON 1 and 2
Dwarven Faith 1
Racial Toughness 1-3


Right now I'm thinking of ignoring Smiting lines, except 1st tier to help with DP since it is only 1 AP. Also would Dwarf Spell Defense line be worth it for better saves? Also considering dropping Cleric LM 4, not sure it is worth it.

Gear I have for him at the moment is (not optimal but I think pretty good) -

LIT 2 Greataxe
Concordiant Opposition goggles (Still need 3rd tier)
GS SP gloves (still need 3rd tier)
DT shroud (stoneskin guard and to fill in gaps)
Bard's Cloak (for CHA)
Lorrik's Necklace
Girdle of Faith
Levik's Bracers
Striding 30 boots
Featherfalling Ring
Dex +6 Ring
Dusk Heart Trinket
Minos Legens

Not too concerned about getting min lvl 20 gear for epics at the moment, I'll get that stuff at the end of this upcoming life. Mainly just concentrating on leveling at the moment. Planing to TR into this build when I get his GS stuff done, also would love to get Lorrik's Shield for raids.

[Phidius]

Just a couple of thoughts about your build.

1. Mass Heal takes so long that when you'll have to choose between casting it and meleeing. This is why I went with 15 cleric/3 monk/2 fighter - no temptation to stay in the back and chain Mass Heals together. Just the opposite - there's every reason to stay in the front lines to squeeze out more healing.

2. Putting 10 build points into Wisdom but not planning to be focused on casting means you're not getting the most bang for your buck. I'd recommend starting wisdom at 13 (+6 item for casting level 9 spells), and charisma at 15.
a. Wisdom has a very minor impact on your spell point pool. More charisma = More turns = More healing.
b. If you manage to get your hands on a +3 Cha tome, you'll be able to get DM3 for +6 damage per swing.

3. DM3 - like Mass Heal, you'll have to choose between healing or doing more damage. More options are good, though.

[axel15810]

Just a couple of thoughts about your build.

1. Mass Heal takes so long that when you'll have to choose between casting it and meleeing. This is why I went with 15 cleric/3 monk/2 fighter - no temptation to stay in the back and chain Mass Heals together. Just the opposite - there's every reason to stay in the front lines to squeeze out more healing.

2. Putting 10 build points into Wisdom but not planning to be focused on casting means you're not getting the most bang for your buck. I'd recommend starting wisdom at 13 (+6 item for casting level 9 spells), and charisma at 15.
a. Wisdom has a very minor impact on your spell point pool. More charisma = More turns = More healing.
b. If you manage to get your hands on a +3 Cha tome, you'll be able to get DM3 for +6 damage per swing.

3. DM3 - like Mass Heal, you'll have to choose between healing or doing more damage. More options are good, though.

1. Cool idea but wouldn't I lose lvl 8 and 9 spells? I believe you get lvl 8 at 16 cleric and lvl 9 spells at 18 cleric, can't remember. So mainly I'd lose cure critical, true res and like you said, mass heal. That would hurt...I find true res pretty vital if someone drops in a boss fight.

2 and 3. I thought about this as well but I'd have to drop CON or STR right? How would this work? Planning on dwarf so I get a CHA penalty. Best I can do without dropping those is 13 cha and 12 wis.

[Doxmaster]

Consider Cleric 17, monk 2, fighter 1
Two 9th level spells as opposed to Three
Evasion
1 more feat than your build (Empower, another toughness)
Stances, if you don't use shields
Room for shield mastery, if you want it.

[unbongwah]

I agree w/Phidius that your WIS is too high for a STR-based melee cleric. I would drop it to 12 (+2 tome + 6 item = 20) and bump up CHA to at least 12 (w/+2 tome for Divine Might I) and maybe INT to 10 so you can max Concentration & UMD with extra pts into Balance.

I suspect human works better than dwarf: 1 more feat, no CHA penalty, heal amp, Versatility (dmg boost) + Haste boost for higher burst DPS. You'll lose at least 20 HPs, but hopefully that won't be fatal.

I would stagger out the ftr lvls more so you don't have to wait as long for Radiant Servant. Maybe ftr 1 at lvl 2 and ftr 2 at lvl 14 after getting RS II.

[axel15810]

Consider Cleric 17, monk 2, fighter 1
Two 9th level spells as opposed to Three
Evasion
1 more feat than your build (Empower, another toughness)
Stances, if you don't use shields
Room for shield mastery, if you want it.

Like I said, I don't own monk and really don't want it. I'm not a monk fan. And would I use wraps with this splash? I've spent a lot of time making a LIT 2 greataxe that I want to use. Is 18/2 dwarf or 19/1 human just as viable? Evasion would be nice.

[axel15810]

I agree w/Phidius that your WIS is too high for a STR-based melee cleric. I would drop it to 12 (+2 tome + 6 item = 20) and bump up CHA to at least 12 (w/+2 tome for Divine Might I) and maybe INT to 10 so you can max Concentration & UMD with extra pts into Balance.

I suspect human works better than dwarf: 1 more feat, no CHA penalty, heal amp, Versatility (dmg boost) + Haste boost for higher burst DPS. You'll lose at least 20 HPs, but hopefully that won't be fatal.

I would stagger out the ftr lvls more so you don't have to wait as long for Radiant Servant. Maybe ftr 1 at lvl 2 and ftr 2 at lvl 14 after getting RS II.

Thanks you've got me leaning human. Would this work - 18 STR /8 DEX /16 CON /8 INT /12 WIS /12 CHA? Or maybe 18/8/14/8/12/15? With 15 cha I could get DM 3 if I ever manage to get a +3 cha tome. Oh and since tomes carry over now will I be able to get credit for 10 INT with a +2 INT tome I use before I TR?

[unbongwah]

I was thinking of something like this:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 True Neutral Human Female
(2 Fighter \ 18 Cleric)
Hit Points: 316
Spell Points: 1064
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 18
Reflex: 6
Will: 13

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(34 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 25
Dexterity 8 10
Constitution 16 18
Intelligence 8 10
Wisdom 12 14
Charisma 16 18

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Level 1 (Cleric)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Empower Healing Spell
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell


Level 4 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 5 (Cleric)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 7 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Heal I
Enhancement: Improved Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Might I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I


Level 8 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 10 (Cleric)


Level 11 (Cleric)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 13 (Cleric)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting II
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Might II
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery II
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery III


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 16 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 17 (Cleric)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 19 (Cleric)


Level 20 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Human Versatility IV
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting IV
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Might III
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery IV


Putting extra pts into CHA boosts your TUs and lets you add Divine Might III w/+2 CHA tome. I'm on the fence about some of the enhs, but those are easy enough to change.

Note: IIUC, stat tomes apply when TRing the way they do when LR/GRing; i.e., the relevant bonus is added at lvls 3, 7, etc. So I'm not suggesting you take a +1 Supreme then a +2 Supreme; I'm presuming you'll have taken all your +2s before TRing.

[firemedium_jt]

I was thinking of something like this:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 True Neutral Human Female
(2 Fighter \ 18 Cleric)
Hit Points: 316
Spell Points: 1064
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 18
Reflex: 6
Will: 13

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(34 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 25
Dexterity 8 10
Constitution 16 18
Intelligence 8 10
Wisdom 12 14
Charisma 16 18

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Level 1 (Cleric)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Empower Healing Spell
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell


Level 4 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 5 (Cleric)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 7 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Heal I
Enhancement: Improved Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Might I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I


Level 8 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 10 (Cleric)


Level 11 (Cleric)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 13 (Cleric)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting II
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Might II
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery II
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery III


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 16 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 17 (Cleric)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 19 (Cleric)


Level 20 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Human Versatility IV
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting IV
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Might III
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery IV


I'm on the fence about some of the enhs, but those are easy enough to change.

Note: IIUC, stat tomes apply when TRing the way they do when LR/GRing; i.e., the relevant bonus is added at lvls 3, 7, etc. So I'm not suggesting you take a +1 Supreme then a +2 Supreme; I'm presuming you'll have taken all your +2s before TRing.


I would only take scroll mastery 2. Heal/Heal mass/heal scroll will be just fine. If the tank does not have healing amp that is his problem. Your multi build is enhancement strapped. I hope you plan on stacking Divine Punishment while you heal or melee. I would try to max out the critical smiting lines. Drop human versatility 4 (expensive for +1 for 20 secs). Or even HV3 at high levels to do it. If you need HV3 to hit keep it, but if you switch HV for damage you dont need HV4 or HV3 for damage compared to the critical with DP due to arcane lore and critical smiting enhancements. Eardweller is an easy pull now in Dreaming Dark elite for DP and BB. Green Blade for Arcane lore takes some time, but you may get a Torc grinding ADQ too.

Between Divine Power and Divine Favor you will hit at mid to high lvls. HV helps more at low levels to hit with PA on.
I use Divine power on an item cause the extra HP from the spell is not worth the spell points unless prep for a boss fight.
Haste on an item too cause it stacks with FTR haste and I don't have enough FTR haste.

Human recovery will help with cure spells at low to mid lvls especially from a Pug Cleric not using Superior Ardor. Your heal spell will do about 600+. Unless you have more HP than this you may not need human recovery 2 or 1.

These are the enhancements you can give and take. All the others look needed. Many don't take life of the magic 4 if they need more points along the way, but I can't see being lvl 20 without it.

Another thing to consider is Greater Human Adapt CON and Racial Toughness 3. If you don't have 600+ HP what is the point of human recovery after you get Heal spell? You will just over heal yourself. TOD CON Ring is an odd number +1 or +3 upgraded.

[SirValentine]

what is the point of human recovery after you get Heal spell?


For taking maximum advantage of your own aura, of course.

Also, a good reason to go 19/1: your aura is stronger, just as strong as a pure 20.

[unbongwah]

Also, a good reason to go 19/1: your aura is stronger, just as strong as a pure 20.
Yeah, but then the question becomes which feat do you drop. I really don't want to have to give up anything on my build; I feel it has just the right mix of DPS & meta feats (plus Toughness of course). I suppose you could drop the entire THF chain, but as this is a melee-focused build, I'd rather not give up that much DPS.

[SirValentine]

Yeah, but then the question becomes which feat do you drop. I really don't want to have to give up anything on my build; I feel it has just the right mix of DPS & meta feats (plus Toughness of course). I suppose you could drop the entire THF chain, but as this is a melee-focused build, I'd rather not give up that much DPS.

2 easy options:

1. Actually do what OP said: "Giving up offensive spell casting." Drop Maximize, good to go. This is what I did on my melee Cleric life.

2. As you say, drop THF chain. How much DPS is it? Not sure, but you could keep Maximize, and add Empower back in, and your Divine Punishment and Blade Barrier DPS will make up for it.

A matter of personal preference, whether you want completely give up offensive casting and only melee, or just give up DC-based casting, and go melee-DPS-plus-spell-DPS. Heals are fine either way, and either can be quite effective.

Though I had a lot of fun on my no-offensive-casting melee Cleric life, I like my high-DC divine lives even more.

[unbongwah]

1. Actually do what OP said: "Giving up offensive spell casting." Drop Maximize, good to go. This is what I did on my melee Cleric life.
Maximize also boosts RS bursts for free; even if you never use it for offensive or Cure spells (which is a mistake, IMHO, but say that you do), it's still a good idea to have it just for that. That's why I squeeze in all three output-boosting metas by lvl 6.

[Phidius]

1. Cool idea but wouldn't I lose lvl 8 and 9 spells? I believe you get lvl 8 at 16 cleric and lvl 9 spells at 18 cleric, can't remember.
...

You get 3 level 8 spells at 15th level, and 2 level 9 at 17th.


...
So mainly I'd lose cure critical, true res and like you said, mass heal. That would hurt...I find true res pretty vital if someone drops in a boss fight.
...

I've never gotten any of the gear to enhance healing spells over level 6, so I tend to use Mass Cure Moderate for my main go-to group healing.

I'm going to use the level 7 Resurrection spell - it's only half HP, but good enough for me. Well, not really - can't target self :D


...
2 and 3. I thought about this as well but I'd have to drop CON or STR right? How would this work? Planning on dwarf so I get a CHA penalty. Best I can do without dropping those is 13 cha and 12 wis.

I think I'll change my recommendation. Go with 17 Str, 8 Dex, 16 Con, 10 Wis, and 15 Cha. You can use Cannith crafting, tomes, and enhancements to keep your wisdom high enough to cast your highest level spells.

DM2 is the lowest I'd take the chain - it takes so long to activate it, that DM1 isn't even worth putting on a hot bar for me anymore.

[Phidius]

Maximize also boosts RS bursts for free; even if you never use it for offensive or Cure spells (which is a mistake, IMHO, but say that you do), it's still a good idea to have it just for that. That's why I squeeze in all three output-boosting metas by lvl 6.

Agreed.

When I hear "Offensive Spell Casting", I think "Spell Penetration and DCs". Even my 12/6/2 wisdom-dumped ranger-with-a-blade-barrier has Maximize and Empower.

[axel15810]

Sir Val -

Since healing aura increases 1 point per every 3 caster levels (according to wiki) wouldn't an 18 cleric / 2 fighter aura be just as strong as 19 cleric / 1 fighter? Even if it increases every caster level instead of every 3rd I couldn't imagine the aura being more than a few HP per tick less, not a big deal.

18/2 with 16 starting cha and slightly dumped strength seems like a good idea. Losing 1 rank of STR should be worth it for +2 damage since my to hit will already be good enough. And i like 18/2 because that way I could fit in both maximize and empower. Mass heal is too slow to be used in a lot of situations. On my nerfed 19 cleric / 1 fighter I don't have empower spell and I'm finding that empower healing + maximize isn't enough for effective mass cures. Also having atleast a good blade barrier for solo-ability and general CC is vital IMO even though the build is melee focused. Not sure how much more often monsters will evade the blades with the lower WIS on this build but I wouldn't think it hurt too much on most trash. Not to mention giving me a good divine punishment so i can be effective in boss fights.

My only concern is being dependent on spells/abilities to boost melee. That's why I was leaning towards max strength in the first place. I've heard DM is slow to cast. I've never used it before, running a lvl 4 pally up to lvl 5 really quick right now so I can test it out. If I find it's too slow (like I've heard) then I'll probably lean towards 17 or 18 strength and forget about DM 3. I'm concerned about having to cast divine might + divine favor + divine power before every fight. That's going to take a good 2-3 seconds at least plus whatever DM's casting time is. The fight could be halfway over before I get in it, not to mention having to heal at the same time. And without extend DF and DP will have to be recast constantly.

[SirValentine]

Since healing aura increases 1 point per every 3 caster levels (according to wiki) wouldn't an 18 cleric / 2 fighter aura be just as strong as 19 cleric / 1 fighter?


It is every 3 caster levels, but the PrE itself gives +2 caster levels. So 19 Cleric casts aura at CL 21, for a base value of 7, whereas the 18 Cleric only has a base value of 6. Everything else is a multiplier of that, so that's the difference between, say, 28 vs. 24 HP per tick. x45 ticks per aura. x6 players in party. Not counting crits, or people with high healing amp. It adds up fast.

Same reason, only moreso, why I'd never do a Clr12/other-stuff-8, it would be a Clr13/other-stuff-7, for over 25% more aura goodness.



On my nerfed 19 cleric / 1 fighter I don't have empower spell and I'm finding that empower healing + maximize isn't enough for effective mass cures.


Hmmm, OK. I never had trouble without Maximize, and even now on a FvS, I leave Maximize and Empower off for my mass cures. You using Superior Ardor clickies?



Also having atleast a good blade barrier for solo-ability and general CC is vital IMO even though the build is melee focused.


I'm not saying you shouldn't; Blade Barrier is awesome. But I am saying it's personal preference and viable either way. I did fine without using blade barriers.

[axel15810]

It is every 3 caster levels, but the PrE itself gives +2 caster levels. So 19 Cleric casts aura at CL 21, for a base value of 7, whereas the 18 Cleric only has a base value of 6. Everything else is a multiplier of that, so that's the difference between, say, 28 vs. 24 HP per tick. x45 ticks per aura. x6 players in party. Not counting crits, or people with high healing amp. It adds up fast.

Same reason, only moreso, why I'd never do a Clr12/other-stuff-8, it would be a Clr13/other-stuff-7, for over 25% more aura goodness.



Hmmm, OK. I never had trouble without Maximize, and even now on a FvS, I leave Maximize and Empower off for my mass cures. You using Superior Ardor clickies?



I'm not saying you shouldn't; Blade Barrier is awesome. But I am saying it's personal preference and viable either way. I did fine without using blade barriers.

yeah I'm using superior ardor VI clickies but I'm mainly using cure moderate mass because I don't have anything to boost cure spells above lvl 6. Maybe I just need to get some better gear. They hit for about 200-220...which I guess isn't too bad but I usually have to double tap 2 mass cures. I was thinking about putting lorrik's on my DT armor but I find stoneskin guard so amazing for survivability.

[axel15810]

I think I'll change my recommendation. Go with 17 Str, 8 Dex, 16 Con, 10 Wis, and 15 Cha. You can use Cannith crafting, tomes, and enhancements to keep your wisdom high enough to cast your highest level spells.


With human instead of dwarf what do you think of this - 17 STR/ 8 DEX/ 16 CON/ 8 INT/ 9 WIS / 16 CHA?


I can use human adaptability and greater human adaptability to give a +1 STR and WIS, evening them out. I can get 19 WIS for lvl 9 spells from 9 base + 2 from tome + 6 item + 1 Cleric Wisdom enhancement + 1 human adaptability = 19.

And I could get DM 3 with a +2 CHA tome. Even DM 4 if I through some miracle snag a +4 CHA tome at some point.

[wax_on_wax_off]

With human instead of dwarf what do you think of this - 17 STR/ 8 DEX/ 16 CON/ 8 INT/ 9 WIS / 16 CHA?


I can use human adaptability and greater human adaptability to give a +1 STR and WIS, evening them out. I can get 19 WIS for lvl 9 spells from 9 base + 2 from tome + 6 item + 1 Cleric Wisdom enhancement + 1 human adaptability = 19.

And I could get DM 3 with a +2 CHA tome. Even DM 4 if I through some miracle snag a +4 CHA tome at some point.

Best to be careful of starting wisdom unless you want to exclude yourself from content in which you can be disjunctioned. I'd advocate being able to cast your highest level spell after a disjunction with an owls wisdom spell. In this case that would be 11 base +2 tome +1 cleric +1 human +4 owls =19.

Also, 4 AP>2 build points, drop constitution by 1 and increase wisdom by 2 so it becomes 13 base+2 tome+4 owls=19. You can then spend those 4 AP on Greater Adaptability: Constitution if it would get you an extra modifier which will open Racial Toughness III. I'd definitely advocate at least spending on wisdom for 1-1 as it's 29 SP per modifier which is pretty decent (but 13 or 14 starting is fine).

[Phidius]

With human instead of dwarf what do you think of this - 17 STR/ 8 DEX/ 16 CON/ 8 INT/ 9 WIS / 16 CHA?


I can use human adaptability and greater human adaptability to give a +1 STR and WIS, evening them out. I can get 19 WIS for lvl 9 spells from 9 base + 2 from tome + 6 item + 1 Cleric Wisdom enhancement + 1 human adaptability = 19.

And I could get DM 3 with a +2 CHA tome. Even DM 4 if I through some miracle snag a +4 CHA tome at some point.

It's been my experience that AP are really tight - spending AP on a casting stat when you're not a casting focused build sticks in my craw. You can make it work starting at a 9 Wisdom, but I think the lower levels would be much more pleasant with 10+.

Unfortunately, you have to be Cleric20 to get DM4.

[axel15810]

Best to be careful of starting wisdom unless you want to exclude yourself from content in which you can be disjunctioned. I'd advocate being able to cast your highest level spell after a disjunction with an owls wisdom spell. In this case that would be 11 base +2 tome +1 cleric +1 human +4 owls =19.

Also, 4 AP>2 build points, drop constitution by 1 and increase wisdom by 2 so it becomes 13 base+2 tome+4 owls=19. You can then spend those 4 AP on Greater Adaptability: Constitution if it would get you an extra modifier which will open Racial Toughness III. I'd definitely advocate at least spending on wisdom for 1-1 as it's 29 SP per modifier which is pretty decent (but 13 or 14 starting is fine).

Cool good catch. That would be better. 17/8/14/8/13/16 sounds like a plan with both Human adaptability in CON. With 2 levels of fighter I'll be able to use the Fighter Strength 1 enhancement to even out STR. That allocation looks great.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Cool good catch. That would be better. 17/8/14/8/13/16 sounds like a plan with both Human adaptability in CON. With 2 levels of fighter I'll be able to use the Fighter Strength 1 enhancement to even out STR. That allocation looks great.

Can't spend both adaptabilities in the same stat. 16/8/15/8/14/16 would work though.

[axel15810]

Unfortunately, you have to be Cleric20 to get DM4.

aww oh well. no big deal. I doubt I'll ever get my hands on a +4 cha tome anyway.

[axel15810]

Can't spend both adaptabilities in the same stat. 16/8/15/8/14/16 would work though.

Oh ok, glad I'm asking all these questions. I'm such a newb to human toons, I don't have any right now. Thanks for the help.

[firemedium_jt]

Between heal scrolls and mana pots I prefer to boost offensive casting damage instead of human recovery healing amp for 1-2 pt of aura. I burn through healing scrolls anyway in raids. What is another few scrolls if someone is really low in a 6 man party. Equip arcane lore when casting Aura and it critical 12% for nice double healing boosts for Aura ticking off. Most toons in aura will get some critical healing for 40-50 pts. If someone needs more than that extra healing just use a heal scroll on them.

Human recovery 1 is ok but recovery 2 is expensive at high level when u need those points for other things.


\\

For mass cures you want Superior Ardor VIII belts from TOD quests and raid. Until you get those belts your mass cure light and moderate are better with Superior Ardor 6 than Mass cure serious and critical without ardor. However they are all expensive in spell points with all metas. Heal/Mass Heal/Heal Scrolling the tank and everyone around him is the most efficient spell point use.

Also from TOD are the rings exceptional stats for +1 or +3 upgraded. They drop often enough and only need medium shroud mats to upgrade. So starting out even with one enhancement pt to CON human adapt is good if u get ring. And 5 lvl ups to even STR and odd ring is an even number. If you use FTR STR1 and greater human adapt STR u will have an even STR in the end with TOD exception STR ring.

Then again lvl25 is soon and there may be another lvl up in stats :roll.

Turbine will be rolling in it with reincarnation.

[Doxmaster]

Like I said, I don't own monk and really don't want it.

Control F "Monk"
No result in any of your other posts.

Control F "onk"
No result in any of your other posts.

I don't believe you said that. You might want to update your posts to reflect the missing information.

[axel15810]

Control F "Monk"
No result in any of your other posts.

Control F "onk"
No result in any of your other posts.

I don't believe you said that. You might want to update your posts to reflect the missing information.

Yeah my fault. It was in there but I must have not put it back in when I edited my earlier post.

[wastedbulldog]

17cleric/2monk/1 fighter works i did it with kopeshs was prety good damage think of it as a paldine that can heal

[axel15810]

Updated build below. Couple questions.

1)If I start with 17 STR it looks like my STR will be an odd number at cap (2 tome + 6 item + 1 fighter STR + 1 human adaptability + 5 from level ups). Any suggestions to fix this? Unless there's a better stat allocation at character creation the best solution seems to be to drop an enhancement. Then add it back if I get lucky enough to pick up a +3 STR tome. Maybe look for an exceptional STR item or something??

2) Also, thoughts on alignment? Is true neutral the way to go, or neutral good, lawful good? I don't know much about how alignment effects what items you equip and what damage you take. My 1st cleric was lawful good but I've heard being good aligned will make you take extra damage from certain monsters. So I want to reduce that if possible. But at the same time I want to make sure I can still equip all my items. Will going true neutral still allow me to equip weapons with "pure good" and "holy" effects?

The enhancements may not be listed in the exact order I'll take them. I'll make sure I get DM 2 and 3 and RS 1 and 2 right when they are available. Not too worried about it I can always reset them. But all in all those were the enhancements I'm thinking of taking for now. Just didn't want to spend all that time fixing things around right now.

Thanks for the input!


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Neutral Good Human Male
(2 Fighter \ 18 Cleric)
Hit Points: 326
Spell Points: 1171
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 18
Reflex: 6
Will: 14

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(34 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 25
Dexterity 8 10
Constitution 15 18
Intelligence 8 10
Wisdom 14 16
Charisma 16 18

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 1 11
Bluff 3 4
Concentration 6 27
Diplomacy 3 4
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 3 4
Heal 2 5
Hide -1 0
Intimidate 3 4
Jump 3 7
Listen 2 3
Move Silently -1 0
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 0
Search -1 0
Spot 2 3
Swim 3 7
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Cleric)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Human Bonus) Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality I


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I


Level 4 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Improved Heal I


Level 5 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Improved Heal II


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I


Level 7 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Might I


Level 8 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery II


Level 10 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III


Level 11 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III


Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I


Level 13 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Strength I


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV


Level 16 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Might II


Level 17 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Might III


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot III
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning II


Level 19 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Human Versatility III


Level 20 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Human Versatility IV
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting I

[firemedium_jt]

Updated build below. Couple questions.

1)If I start with 17 STR it looks like my STR will be an odd number at cap (2 tome + 6 item + 1 fighter STR + 1 human adaptability + 5 from level ups). Any suggestions to fix this? Unless there's a better stat allocation at character creation the best solution seems to be to drop an enhancement. Then add it back if I get lucky enough to pick up a +3 STR tome. Maybe look for an exceptional STR item or something??

2) Also, thoughts on alignment? Is true neutral the way to go, or neutral good, lawful good? I don't know much about how alignment effects what items you equip and what damage you take. My 1st cleric was lawful good but I've heard being good aligned will make you take extra damage from certain monsters. So I want to reduce that if possible. But at the same time I want to make sure I can still equip all my items. Will going true neutral still allow me to equip weapons with "pure good" and "holy" effects?

The enhancements may not be listed in the exact order I'll take them. I'll make sure I get DM 2 and 3 and RS 1 and 2 right when they are available. But all in all those were the enhancements I'm thinking of taking for now. Just didn't want to spend all that time fixing things around right now.

Thanks for the input!


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Neutral Good Human Male
(2 Fighter \ 18 Cleric)
Hit Points: 326
Spell Points: 1171
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 18
Reflex: 6
Will: 14

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(34 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 25
Dexterity 8 10
Constitution 15 18
Intelligence 8 10
Wisdom 14 16
Charisma 16 18

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 1 11
Bluff 3 4
Concentration 6 27
Diplomacy 3 4
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 3 4
Heal 2 5
Hide -1 0
Intimidate 3 4
Jump 3 7
Listen 2 3
Move Silently -1 0
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 0
Search -1 0
Spot 2 3
Swim 3 7
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Cleric)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Human Bonus) Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I - delete
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality I- delete- delete


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I


Level 4 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Improved Heal I


Level 5 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Improved Heal II


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I


Level 7 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Might I


Level 8 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II- delete


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery II


Level 10 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III


Level 11 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II- delete
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III


Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I


Level 13 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Strength I


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV


Level 16 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Might II


Level 17 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Might III


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot III- delete
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning II


Level 19 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Human Versatility III


Level 20 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Human Versatility IV- delete
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting I




to swap are - delete

I would take more smiting. Cleric Smiting 1-4 and as much critical lines to hit as you can. Then damage. You have a lot of turns so you don't need extra turning 2. You can even drop Life of the Magic 4.

Energy of the Zealot and divine vital is gimp. You have Divine Might 1 for Radiant Servant Pre. Req. Why are you taking divine Vitality?

Stopping your swinging of your weapon to cast and stack Divine Punishment is worth it especially on bosses. Divine Punishment is awesome. No save and no spell pen ck. It will tick off against bosses and land lots of criticals if you don't gimp it.

Not casting Divine Punishment to add to your damage just does not make any sense. Same goes for Blade Barrier (no spell pen ck). These spells are a part of a melee clerics selections and use just like Divine Power and Divine Favor. Divine Punishment does not require wisdom because there is no save against it.

I would also trade out Racial tougness 3 for more smiting, but that is a tough one until you get lots of hit point gear.

Taking Greater Human adapt STR would be better than human versatility 4.

I would make STR even with enhancements because there are exceptional STR TOD rings +1/+3 with 5 lvl ups for +8 total. However, we are getting an update to lvl25 and all bets are off. There are CON rings too, so +1 human adapt and ring is even number.

Also put one point into Tumble to activate it especially if you plan to melee ;)

[axel15810]

to swap are - delete

I would take more smiting. Cleric Smiting 1-4 and as much critical lines to hit as you can. Then damage. You have a lot of turns so you don't need extra turning 2. You can even drop Life of the Magic 4.

Energy of the Zealot and divine vital is gimp. You have Divine Might 1 for Radiant Servant Pre. Req. Why are you taking divine Vitality?

Stopping your swinging of your weapon to cast and stack Divine Punishment is worth it especially on bosses. Divine Punishment is awesome. No save and no spell pen ck. It will tick off against bosses and land lots of criticals if you don't gimp it.

Not casting Divine Punishment to add to your damage just does not make any sense. Same goes for Blade Barrier (no spell pen ck). These spells are a part of a melee clerics selections and use just like Divine Power and Divine Favor. Divine Punishment does not require wisdom because there is no save against it.

I would also trade out Racial tougness 3 for more smiting, but that is a tough one until you get lots of hit point gear.

Taking Greater Human adapt STR would be better than human versatility 4.

I would make STR even with enhancements because there are exceptional STR TOD rings +1/+3 with 5 lvl ups for +8 total. However, we are getting an update to lvl25 and all bets are off. There are CON rings too, so +1 human adapt and ring is even number.

Also put one point into Tumble to activate it especially if you plan to melee ;)

I've never taken DM on a cleric before. Didn't realize it could serve as a RS rereq. I'll fix that, thanks. Yeah I am very iffy about the zealot. Probably won't take it past 2nd tier that I think about it. I'll put it into smiting. And don't worry I will cast DP with a sup brill VI item for bosses...when I can spare the SP anyway. And if I can spare the SP to cast it I often don't need to because if I have SP to spare the boss probably isn't that tough. That was my logic behind not putting too many AP into smiting on a melee cleric. Of course with an SP regen item this life I'll have a lot more SP to throw around I'm sure.

[firemedium_jt]

yeah torc is nice. Still working on it. You prob have a Greenblade then if you have a Torc. With enhancements that is 18% to critical. I don't really run out of SP when I heal. It is when i also offensive cast, but what is the point of that if I do not take enhancements for it.

In the above post in the character gen paste I embedded some other enhancements you could prob live without in favor of more smiting.

I love watching my DP tick off on a boss, and the criticals really **** them off. When they charge me because of it my blade barrier comes in handy. That is usually when the Wizard takes a double take looking behind him wondering why the boss is not chasing him anymore.

[axel15810]

bump. 3 questions I still have -

1) Does human versatility damage boost and divine might stack?

2) I've never used divine might, I've heard it takes a while to activate. How many seconds approximately?

3) Also, thoughts on alignment? Is true neutral the way to go, or neutral good, lawful good? I don't know much about how alignment effects what items you equip and what damage you take. My 1st cleric was lawful good but I've heard being good aligned will make you take extra damage from certain monsters. So I want to reduce that if possible. But at the same time I want to make sure I can still equip all my items. Will going true neutral still allow me to equip weapons with "pure good" and "holy" effects?

thanks!

[unbongwah]

1) Does human versatility damage boost and divine might stack?
Yes. So will Haste Boost. For a BC, you should have some decent burst DPS. :)

3) Also, thoughts on alignment? Is true neutral the way to go, or neutral good, lawful good? If you're not going pally and/or monk, TN is usually best: makes you immune to Unholy/Axiomatic/Anarchic dmg (not sure there's much of the latter two tho, but plenty of things do unholy dmg) and lets you use Stability items. The main incentive to being Good-aligned is using Pure Good weapons w/out UMD; but now that Righteousness counts as good-aligned and can be crafted, IIRC, there's much less incentive to going good just for PG, IMHO.

Will going true neutral still allow me to equip weapons with "pure good" and "holy" effects?Holy, yes, there's no alignment requirement (tho if we were allowed to play evil chars you'd get a neg lvl from them); PG you'd need UMD 20 to use.

[Matuse]

but now that Righteousness counts as good-aligned and can be crafted, IIRC, there's much less incentive to going good just for PG, IMHO.

The only thing PG has going for it is that it inflicts damage on neutrals where Righteous doesn't.

Otherwise, Righteous is a MUCH better modifier:

1) No alignment check
2) It adds +tohit, not just damage
3) It adds to base damage so Righteous makes critical hits better. PG doesn't.

2 damage per hit vs 3.5 isn't much, and you'll hit more often (particularly at lower levels), and harder on crits to make up for it.

[axel15810]

Sounds like I'll go True Neutral. TN can use a LIT 2 axe with holy on it right? I was about 99% sure I could but I just wanted to double check on that...I would be completely screwed if I couldnt equip it. The only 2 weapons I'll really ever be using are a Carnefix for 1st half of the toon's life and a LIT 2 weapon for the 2nd half. So I'm not worried about not having access to Pure Good weapons.

[Matuse]

The only way to have an alignment conflict with Greensteel is if you are Good aligned and make a weapon with Unholy on it. That will give you a negative level. I can't say that I've ever seen anyone ever put Unholy on a GS weapon...not to say it's really never happened, but it would be uber-rare, given the microscopic number of creatures in the game that Unholy works on.

Every other GS/Alignment combo has no issues.

[Meat-Head]

Hello Fellow melee cleric talk abouters. Lemme give you some thoughts based on recent experience.

First off, I'm leveling my main who I planned on a 19/1 Horc THF build. Guess what. I'm not that impressed. In fact, I'm ****ed off because I have three t3 GS two-handers for him. Min2, Lit2, and Trip pos... He also has a torc, conc opp goggles, and GS HPs cloak. He's currently 17/1 THF Horc with +2s in all stats except CHA and WIS which I have +3s.

Relatedly, I leveled an Emerald 2.0 12/6/2 monk/ftr/pally wis-based ac pajama tank.

Here's what I have learned-

1. THF dps on a cleric is meh. I mean, I think we all know this anyway. It contributes, but it's meh.
2. I miss being able to throw a destruct here and there.
3. Stunning fist is awesome. Not only does it boost YOUR dps, but it boosts the party's dps also.
4. Auras and Bursts are your GO-TO on a melee cleric. Hence, you want empower, max, and emp heal.
5. DM conflicts with #4.
6. I like AC.
7. I hate having a crappy reflex save.
8. ATM, my char can't really stand in melee on normal shroud because he's taking full dmg from spells. **
9. It's tough to solo elites post-vale because of lack of dmg mitigation. (I do use a Invuln Adam. Fullplate of lifeshield. It helps in many areas, but not in others)
10. I don't love keeping up Divine favor/power. It's ok. But can be annoying. (and I have extend)


Here's what I THINK I wanna do now.

1. Human or helf clonk
2. Stunning fist
3. Max wis and levelups.
4. AC
5. Evasion
6. Heighten (i want insta-kills when needed/wanted but doesn't need to be a caster per se)
7. Stunning fist plus two tod rings + achem wraps is prolly better dps than any 17+ THF cleric there is even with a low str. (This is a guess, but I'd be willing to bet).
8. AC + aura+ hamp means you can take a bio in the middle of... well a lot.


Feats are the problem, of course.

18/2 human clonk = 10 feats

tough
max
emp
empheal
quicken
Stunning fist
Heighten
+3 to figure out what to do with

Now, you might be saying, this is TOTALLY different than what the OP wants. Well, maybe. But I think he wants a healer that can do some DPS. I think this kind of build can OUT-dps the THF kind given gear. (Again, a guess) PLUS do more.

Just my thoughts. I may change em.


** This can be solved through gear like +10 reflex armor from madness stuff, Fireshield, fire absorb, +5 resist item, etc. I just haven't put the time in on that.

[axel15810]

Hello Fellow melee cleric talk abouters. Lemme give you some thoughts based on recent experience.

First off, I'm leveling my main who I planned on a 19/1 Horc THF build. Guess what. I'm not that impressed. In fact, I'm ****ed off because I have three t3 GS two-handers for him. Min2, Lit2, and Trip pos... He also has a torc, conc opp goggles, and GS HPs cloak. He's currently 17/1 THF Horc with +2s in all stats except CHA and WIS which I have +3s.

Relatedly, I leveled an Emerald 2.0 12/6/2 monk/ftr/pally wis-based ac pajama tank.

Here's what I have learned-

1. THF dps on a cleric is meh. I mean, I think we all know this anyway. It contributes, but it's meh.
2. I miss being able to throw a destruct here and there.
3. Stunning fist is awesome. Not only does it boost YOUR dps, but it boosts the party's dps also.
4. Auras and Bursts are your GO-TO on a melee cleric. Hence, you want empower, max, and emp heal.
5. DM conflicts with #4.
6. I like AC.
7. I hate having a crappy reflex save.
8. ATM, my char can't really stand in melee on normal shroud because he's taking full dmg from spells. **
9. It's tough to solo elites post-vale because of lack of dmg mitigation. (I do use a Invuln Adam. Fullplate of lifeshield. It helps in many areas, but not in others)
10. I don't love keeping up Divine favor/power. It's ok. But can be annoying. (and I have extend)


Here's what I THINK I wanna do now.

1. Human or helf clonk
2. Stunning fist
3. Max wis and levelups.
4. AC
5. Evasion
6. Heighten (i want insta-kills when needed/wanted but doesn't need to be a caster per se)
7. Stunning fist plus two tod rings + achem wraps is prolly better dps than any 17+ THF cleric there is even with a low str. (This is a guess, but I'd be willing to bet).
8. AC + aura+ hamp means you can take a bio in the middle of... well a lot.


Feats are the problem, of course.

18/2 human clonk = 10 feats

tough
max
emp
empheal
quicken
Stunning fist
Heighten
+3 to figure out what to do with

Now, you might be saying, this is TOTALLY different than what the OP wants. Well, maybe. But I think he wants a healer that can do some DPS. I think this kind of build can OUT-dps the THF kind given gear. (Again, a guess) PLUS do more.

Just my thoughts. I may change em.


** This can be solved through gear like +10 reflex armor from madness stuff, Fireshield, fire absorb, +5 resist item, etc. I just haven't put the time in on that.

sorry to hear that you don't like it...my thoughts your list -

2. Personally I see destruct as very overrated for a cleric. Personally I don't use it much on mine (who has pretty good DCs btw, I took his level ups in WIS with 16 starting) just because it only kills 1 enemy for a huge SP cost. SP I usually need to save for heals. And with melee abilities I don't really see the point in individual target spells. Implosion though is useful when cornered but it is still rarely used on my toon.

3. Never would think of using it on a battle cleric. I wouldn't think it would hit that often with low STR. I have enough issues on trash saving against it on my kensei. Cool if you like it but for me it wouldn't hit enough to be worth the feat or the extra spot on my hotbar.

4. That's one reason why I decided to switch to 18/2 human. 10 feats means I can fit in THF line, max and empower.

5. True and that will be a challenge for me this next life. I should have 13 turns at level 20, which is 5 more than my battle cleric does right now so I think I'll be ok. I'll definitely have to learn when to save turns though. I can really see DM eating them up.

6. You can get a good AC at early levels still. And nobody's AC means anything mid/end game except for AC tanks so not sure what you're looking for.

7, 8 and 9. Yeah not fun not having reflexes. What's your HP? Maybe you need some more HP or better gear. Do you have healing amp on? My battle cleric can stay on harry on normal shroud...he has close to 500 HP, 1.2 healing modifier. I haven't tried on hard. I have stoneskin guard on my DT armor and that combined with a boosted aura and displacement from a friendly arcane does wonders.

10. Maybe turn off your horc power attack enhancements if you find it too annoying? You shouldn't need then with those off although your damage will obviously go down a little bit.


Hope you like your next build better. I would not try and get both DCs and melee though...I guess you could dump CHA to boost WIS and STR but then you don't get DM and lose a lot of turns. That's what my battlecleric has right now and I don't like it...I started with dumped CHA, 16 STR and 16 WIS on a 28 point build. Took all ability points into WIS. And he is super gimped...no DM, no empower spell, no THF line, only 8 turns. And his DCs still aren't that great so his destruct isn't all that reliable except on easy trash which I can just melee anyway. And his melee is decent but still pretty meh and could be a lot better had I taken level ups in STR. He hits for around 40-50 and crits for 120-150 with a LIT 2 greataxe (no third tier yet)

[Meat-Head]

sorry to hear that you don't like it...my thoughts your list -

2. Personally I see destruct as very overrated for a cleric. Personally I don't use it much on mine (who has pretty good DCs btw, I took his level ups in WIS with 16 starting) just because it only kills 1 enemy for a huge SP cost. SP I usually need to save for heals. And with melee abilities I don't really see the point in individual target spells. Implosion though is useful when cornered but it is still rarely used on my toon. Sometimes you wanna kill something NOW. Besides, the wis helps with SP and stunning fist AND ac.. Too much synergy to not go for it.



3. Never would think of using it on a battle cleric. I wouldn't think it would hit that often with low STR. I have enough issues on trash saving against it on my kensei. Cool if you like it but for me it wouldn't hit enough to be worth the feat or the extra spot on my hotbar.

I've gotten used to it on my monk-tank and I love it. Love. It. BTW, my monk tank is wis-based and doesn't have a great starting STR. Lotta gear and buffs can help with to-hit. Lots.





4. That's one reason why I decided to switch to 18/2 human. 10 feats means I can fit in THF line, max and empower.

5. True and that will be a challenge for me this next life. I should have 13 turns at level 20, which is 5 more than my battle cleric does right now so I think I'll be ok. I'll definitely have to learn when to save turns though. I can really see DM eating them up.

I'm rockin like 11 turns atm. It'll be more. But I'm not 100% happy with this number. I wish it was more.


6. You can get a good AC at early levels still. And nobody's AC means anything mid/end game except for AC tanks so not sure what you're looking for.

This is not true. ESPECIALLY on a wis-based clonk. It takes some gear, but there's no reason I can't get to 65+ ac. Maybe up to 75ish. That's huge in a lot of areas. Yes, it makes NO difference in epics. But, it would allow you to take a nap in places like norm-hard amrath. Solo VoD? Sure. Not. bad.


7, 8 and 9. Yeah not fun not having reflexes. What's your HP? Maybe you need some more HP or better gear. Do you have healing amp on? My battle cleric can stay on harry on normal shroud...he has close to 500 HP, 1.2 healing modifier. I haven't tried on hard. I have stoneskin guard on my DT armor and that combined with a boosted aura and displacement from a friendly arcane does wonders.

This is one area I can basically fix. I DID put some of those fixes in my OP as a footnote. HPs? Well, the build is not over-flowing with them. Capped I'll be 475ish in a shroud. I have 1.2 heal amp atm. When I get in a bind, I pop out my trip pos maul with 30% hamp on it. I'd like more. Human/helf would help here.



10. Maybe turn off your horc power attack enhancements if you find it too annoying? You shouldn't need then with those off although your damage will obviously go down a little bit.

Shhh.. Don't tell anyone, but I haven't taken the PA enhancements yet for just this reason. I don't use em all the time. I'm able to keep PA on most all the time tho.



Hope you like your next build better. I would not try and get both DCs and melee though...I guess you could dump CHA to boost WIS and STR but then you don't get DM and lose a lot of turns. That's what my battlecleric has right now and I don't like it...I started with dumped CHA, 16 STR and 16 WIS on a 28 point build. Took all ability points into WIS. And he is super gimped...no DM, no empower spell, no THF line, only 8 turns. And his DCs still aren't that great so his destruct isn't all that reliable except on easy trash which I can just melee anyway. And his melee is decent but still pretty meh and could be a lot better had I taken level ups in STR. He hits for around 40-50 and crits for 120-150 with a LIT 2 greataxe (no third tier yet)



Clonks are just sooo much more flexible.

Damage mitigation: STUNs, Evasion, AC, lil higher saves, Balance as a class skill.

Stances: Need a +1 to hit/dmg? NP. Need a +1 to stuns, saves, and DCs? NP.

Basically they allow you to drop STR a lot because you don't need it for damage as much. ToD rings, Brawling GLoves, AND Wraps all stack up nicely. PLUS the attack rate is better.

Need to-hit? Get gear/buffs. I'm not saying start with an 8. But, you can afford to drop it a bit. For the high-ac bosses, it's better if you're focused on healing anyway. So... problem?


This is where my head is at right now. But, we'll see.

[axel15810]

I'm no expert on monks because I've never played them but wouldn't you need need to make some major sacrifices on your gear slots to work the AC on a clonk? I wouldn't think it would be worth it. Maybe on lvl 20 with all epic gear but right now on mine I have trouble fitting everything I want in without even worrying about AC.

[Meat-Head]

I'm no expert on monks because I've never played them but wouldn't you need need to make some major sacrifices on your gear slots to work the AC on a clonk? I wouldn't think it would be worth it. Maybe on lvl 20 with all epic gear but right now on mine I have trouble fitting everything I want in without even worrying about AC.



Not really because healing doesn't require much gear. So, you can AC it up on the rest. :)

[axel15810]

Plugged in some enhancement fixes. Let me know what you all think. Also I thought about it and swapped Empower spell for Extend. I just don't think 2:12 divine favor/power will work since I need it on all the time.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 True Neutral Human Male
(2 Fighter \ 18 Cleric)
Hit Points: 316
Spell Points: 1091
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 18
Reflex: 6
Will: 14

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(34 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 25
Dexterity 8 10
Constitution 15 18
Intelligence 8 10
Wisdom 14 16
Charisma 16 18

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 0.5 11
Bluff 3 4
Concentration 5 26
Diplomacy 3 4
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 3 4
Heal 2 5
Hide -1 0
Intimidate 3 4
Jump 3 7
Listen 2 3
Move Silently -1 0
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 0
Search -1 0
Spot 2 3
Swim 3 7
Tumble 0 1
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Cleric)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Human Bonus) Two Handed Fighting


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 4 (Cleric)


Level 5 (Cleric)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 7 (Cleric)


Level 8 (Cleric)


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 10 (Cleric)


Level 11 (Cleric)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Cleric)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 16 (Cleric)


Level 17 (Cleric)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 19 (Cleric)


Level 20 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Heal I
Enhancement: Improved Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Smiting II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Smiting III
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Smiting II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting II
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting III
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting IV
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Might I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Might II
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Might III
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I